Next publish (concerning power scrolls/protection)

[Raptor85]

...something...

I've lived entirely in fel since UO came online, the only place i set foot in other facets is on siege where all facets are fel ruleset, and my primary activity in UO since AOS has been spawning, raiding spawns, and protecting spawns.

1. if you're the ONLY pvp capable person at a spawn that could potentially be raided by 20 people, you're doing it wrong
2. every spawn protection group i've ever been a part of has been a mix of reds and blues, if you dont want the count wear them down and let the reds finish them off (it's called teamwork, i hear it works fairly well in online games)
3. I've never come across such a "raid" (as this type of raid does not exist yet), but if it were to happen I would kill them all, and if i go red so what, munch a few pardons and good to go.
4. if they, to stay blue, never attack your teammates, how do they run you off from the spawn? do these 20 people intend to split the ONE scroll they'd sucessfully "steal" from your spawn by coming in and healing your guys but leaving you there to complete the spawn? Wouldn't it be FAR easier if you have this many people to simply swoop in, kill everyone, heal the boss back up, and complete the spawn? It sounds like from your "story" that these are pvm specced mages, and 4-5 half decent pvper's should be able to wipe the floor with them

 

[Viper09]

you did 3 tests and claim to know how it works? I disagree.

No, but Larisa knows a heck of a lot more about it than you or others arguing speculation. It definitely tells us that simple healing alone doesn't get one scrolls. Referring to the second test.

 

[Kylie Kinslayer]

FIRST test that was run, I played Tamer/mage...threw my beetle on the mob and cast fireballs at it and was rewarded an item.

SECOND test that was run I played straight healer, all I did the entire time was heal the people being hit by the mob..I did NOT get an item.

THIRD test that was run I played pure tamer, I threw my pet on it and healed PETS ONLY..I did NOT get an item.

Looks like you ran 2 scenarios for no reason sadly, the ones ran with pets are invalid imo. And iF there was a pet involved in the second test that one could be invalid too..... It depends on how widespread or what the exact issue is here:

.

*Note there is currently an issue with receiving power scrolls if there are pets involved with champ spawns in 74 which is being resolved.

I did ask earler in the thread if the issues would be corrected prior to launch and got no reply from him tho *shrugs* No testing with pets would be valid until they fix the issue and then see how it goes.

The way it was explained to some of us in game one night on the EM Critters, there would be 2 different loot tables, one for highest damager and one for highest healer. That could have changed tho, or just been a misinterpertation.

 

[goldenpower]

as I said earlier I think part of the disconnect between players and Developers is that the Developers see this as a Red vs. Blue thing while the players see this as a Guild vs. Guild vs. Vigilante/Soloist thing.

this is why people get frustrated with new changes. they don't feel the Developers understand the dynamic of how players are actually interacting.

I just think a Protector and attackers in a voice chat yelling "DON'T HEAL ME" does not make any sense. it's the opposite of what the natural reaction to your guildmate being low on HP should be.

 

[Cetric]

You are on your blue as a Protector *puffs out chest* at a spawn.

"Oh My Gooses...here comes a raid!! They are all on blues.

I have to protect the champ!! I am the Protector *puffs out chest*!!! I must protect the spawn!!

You cast poison and para fields, being the experienced spawner you are.

Oh my..they are ummm..just walking through... and... and they are not taking any damage...and...and ..they are all hitting the champ and healing my buddies that were killing it (or not.. if you are factions...doesn't matter). What can I do!!!

I know, I will kill them...this is Fel and it is my right. *cast*cast*cast*. Protect the spawn!

Enemy dies..counted me..darn it!!

*cast*cast*fizzle*blackandwhite*

WTH?? I am blue!!! and I can't count any of the 20 blues that just flamestruck me. Hackers!!!!!!! You are all hackers!!!!!!!!!!!

Whoa..I am grey??? But..but..I am the Protector *puffs out chest* I must protect the spawn.

Oh wait..I am RED (oh crap..this same thing happened quite a few times today).

No scrolls. Friend screaming in vent that he is now red too and can no longer spawn on his/her spawning character.

Overpowering blue team now swaps places with the now red former protector and whatever. Same thing happens to them. Their reaction..the same.

WTH!!!!!!!

Screw this.... I quit."

oh man, epic example. i LOLd irl. Now bring your epic blue army to great lakes =(

 

[goldenpower]

No, but Larisa knows a heck of a lot more about it than you or others arguing speculation. It definitely tells us that simple healing alone doesn't get one scrolls. Referring to the second test.

to see any trend you would have to run the the tests many times.

50 times times throwing 1 heal on someone

50 times throwing lots of heals on someone

 

[Raptor85]

Honestly though, there's a better fix for spawns as they're currently set up (as well as many other things in fel)

remove the ridiculous loot splitting altogether, and have the scrolls drop on the bosses body to be looted. A body on the ground should be lootable by all

 

[Viper09]

Honestly though, there's a better fix for spawns as they're currently set up (as well as many other things in fel)

remove the ridiculous loot splitting altogether, and have the scrolls drop on the bosses body to be looted. A body on the ground should be lootable by all

Or make it a pvp free zone, no murder counts, no difference of red/blue. Since as Widow seems to suggest his real issue is with going red and blues immune to fields cast by enemy blues.

Of course I don't know why you wouldn't cast energy field, lol.

 

[kleos]

can a red be protected? if the tank is red, then a healer would flag?

just a thought.

 

[goldenpower]

can a red be protected? if the tank is red, then a healer would flag?

just a thought.

no. Reds are supposed to be "the enemy"

Reds cannot protect and Reds cannot be protected.

thing is, as I said above. for the players it is not about Red vs. Blue. it is Guild vs. Guild. vs. Soloists.

so each Guild has Reds AND Blues, and then there are people who run solo on a Red or Blue for whatever reason.

AND don't forget Factions. have to throw that into the mix too.

 

[goldenpower]

Honestly though, there's a better fix for spawns as they're currently set up (as well as many other things in fel)

remove the ridiculous loot splitting altogether, and have the scrolls drop on the bosses body to be looted. A body on the ground should be lootable by all

no, this would give the advantage to EC players and scripters

 

[Raptor85]

the scripters dont have the advantage at spawns already? If someone in your group hogs all the loot it's simple, don't take them with next time. If they're not in your group, murder is always a fine option.

 

[Gorbs]

I want to throw in my $.02 that this is a dumb change in Fel. Then again, protection itself is already flawed.

I don't really see it as a positive in Trammel either. You'll see far more griefing in Trammel with this than in Fel. I'd suggest implementing it such that the healers/disco people would only get credit if they are in the same party.

 

[Theo_GL]

You have to realize the amount of tram griefing that is available.

Instead of jumping in on a Unbound EV with a dexer, now I can throw some heals on 2 diff sampires killing 2 solo and get looting rights on both. Each sampire gets 1/2 the loot - I get 1/2 x 2 and there is NO WAY for a sampire to prevent them from doing this. Its a new griefing tactic.

 

[Widow Maker]

Or make it a pvp free zone, no murder counts, no difference of red/blue. Since as Widow seems to suggest his real issue is with going red and blues immune to fields cast by enemy blues.

Of course I don't know why you wouldn't cast energy field, lol.

Keep trying Viper but a heads up..you are not remotely close to right. Try a different thought path, if you can.

 

[HD2300]

Lets play a game... spot the EM

Disclaimer. I have never worked for EA. I have never got paid by EA.

 

[Widow Maker]

oh man, epic example. i LOLd irl. Now bring your epic blue army to great lakes =(

Sorry, no blue spawning characters except one and he is definetly not going to be a protector, nor has. Everyone else is red.

I am sorry that you have yet to get on the right track. We all hold great hope for you though.

I see they are going ahead with the publish anyways....LOLOLOL!!! How utterly typical.

Let's hope the next Dev team can undo the damage.

 

[PitrGri]

I still have my Bissel Cleaner on Drachs...

Thank you for the tutoring Widow!!!

 

[Viper09]

Keep trying Viper but a heads up..you are not remotely close to right. Try a different thought path, if you can.

Then perhaps it is you who cannot give a great example then. Because your scenario really seems to focus on a raid of 20 blues, your groups inability to hold them back, the inability for your blue protector to hurt them with field spells and not wanting to get 20 or so counts, and your group members getting mad over going red in an attempt to stop. Perhaps if you weren't so hostile and hot-headed towards everyone who doesn't agree with you could be more coherent over your thoughts. Because the only real issue I'm reading from your example has to do with PvP involving blue vrs blue. I would be far more concerned at that point with fighting off the raiders than them healing the tank.

 

[Lady Michelle]

It could be much much worst were they could change it to how the peerless spawns work. You, and your party drop the skulls in a container, and your party all go in to do the champ spawn, and dont have to worry about being raided. All you have to worry about is getting the PSs out.

 

[Martell]

It could be much much worst were they could change it to how the peerless spawns work. You, and your party drop the skulls in a container, and your party all go in to do the champ spawn, and dont have to worry about being raided. All you have to worry about is getting the PSs out.

Great point. It'd also be much much worse if they put a GZ in all spawns for blue raiders to fight from. +1 for me.

 

[Kellgory]

Maybe they should just change it so that you can't give murder counts to the protector in champ spawn areas or on the same dungeon level that a harry has been spawned. That way the blue protector can actually protect the spawn/harry as long as they stay within the area (doesn't give the protector rights to chase people all across t2a). They would have to find a way to limit the number of protectors so that half the blues aren't protecting the other half of blues.

 

[Poo]

I wonder if I can post on this subject again. I am completely terrified of getting banned because I strongly disagree with certain mods (who will NOT be named).

Help me please Mags..tell me what I need to do to not get banned by some out of control mods and still state valid concerns they do not happen to personally agree with?

I desperately want to be a contributing member of the UO society.

Oh look...I don't seem to be the only one suffering from this anxiety. Maybe you can address this all at once??

Thank you very much for your time and thoughts. They are as appreciated as you are.

Not to worry little fella, i always watch out for my fellow Sonomians.

even if they are in the wrong faction and on the wrong side of the argument!

 

[Kellgory]

I wasn't going to say anything in this thread...but it's gotten to the point that it's just...

We've tested this on Origin several times over the past week, Mesanna and team have been taking the data collected and tweaking it a bit here and there.

FIRST test that was run, I played Tamer/mage...threw my beetle on the mob and cast fireballs at it and was rewarded an item.

SECOND test that was run I played straight healer, all I did the entire time was heal the people being hit by the mob..I did NOT get an item.

THIRD test that was run I played pure tamer, I threw my pet on it and healed PETS ONLY..I did NOT get an item.

I seriously do not think there's ANYTHING to worry about here people! The way I see it, you must be there healing the ENTIRE time to even be considered part of the top attacker/healer ratio.

You people are freaking out before you can test it...and that's another thing..have you guys TESTED it? On Test Center? Go do some champs, run through some scenarios, I think you'd be less willing to come on here and flip out about it if you saw how it worked.

Larisa, could you clarify if this test was done at EM type events or champ spawns and about how many people were involved in hitting/healing. The reason I ask is because on many shards the number of people hitting the champ spawn boss is less than 6 so it really doesn't take that much damage to get rights to a scroll.

 

[Widow Maker]

Not to worry little fella, i always watch out for my fellow Sonomians.

even if they are in the wrong faction and on the wrong side of the argument!

Oh Poo..it's on like donkeykong now brotha!!

Oh...and you know very well that I am never wrong..(well..there was that marraige...but I fixed that, that is a body they will never find)...my failure is in not convincing you of the errors of your ways.

Yet.

I'll get ya there though. I will take you to the promised land my brotha!

 

[Larisa]

Larisa, could you clarify if this test was done at EM type events or champ spawns and about how many people were involved in hitting/healing. The reason I ask is because on many shards the number of people hitting the champ spawn boss is less than 6 so it really doesn't take that much damage to get rights to a scroll.

It was not an event per se...it was a test. Mesanna brought in a mob, then brought in various groups. Dexxors, healers, mages, tamers etc. Each group had roughly 10 or so people in it, more depending on class.

I think the dex/Sampire group was the largest, not a surprise lol. The first day of testing I had pulled the bars of the people who are always at EM events here on Origin that I know will be fighting...Hero, Sugar Smacks...to name a few, you get to know the people when you see them there all the time. The only issue I had was during testing the Sampires took little to no damage so healing was minimal. During that test I used my rune beetle and cast EV's and fireballs at the mob and did receive the drop item. The second test that was run I played straight healer..I just pulled bars until I couldn't pull anymore and threw heals on anyone that needed it, which wasn't very often and did NOT receive the drop item at that time. I would say...20 people were all hitting the mob that time.

The last test was more involved with Mesanna pulling various groups over, testing damage vs. healing vs. tamers etc. I decided to go as a tamer that round and just threw my pet in there and healed only the pets and did not receive a drop item that time either.

The group sizes were varied, I think they ran the tests rather well, they were very thorough but again it was a closed testing environment, but this has been on TC for some time and maybe a group should have gone and done rounds of champ spawns to further test there...overall though I don't see healers being a problem at champ spawns unless they are there from the very beginning and healing constantly throughout the entire time.

 

[SugarSmacks]

I don't see healers being a problem at champ spawns unless they are there from the very beginning and healing constantly throughout the entire time.

That was the conclusion i had come to also from the testing.

 

[Zosimus]

*throwing my 2 cents in*

This is just another tactic that players are going to have to deal with. Two to 3 heals are not going to make a difference from any raider to get a scroll.

Doesn't matter if the person is a ninja stealther with magic and a bestial suit heals 30 times At worse that template may walk away with one scroll if possible and you are not guaranteed a 120. I thought it was the job of the spawners to protect their champ at all costs so they would be forced to fight. Thats part of fel isnt it?

How many threads have been on these forums about champ spawns and something needs changed? There has been plenty.

How many posts have said who really needs scrolls anyway when the population is so small? There has been plenty.

The devs add some change to how champs work and players dont like it. To me it gives both sides different tactics to use now. It works both ways for the raiders or spawners.

The bestail suit and ninja stealther was an issue way before this publish.

If champ spawns are the true issue to really fight in fel and all about PS then maybe I would be complaining more to the devs to give more reasons for everybody to fight in fel. Not only just champ spawns but a darn system that works for everybody and for a true purpose. Not broken factions.

Trammel - PvM

Felucca - PvP

Champ Spawns PvM > PvP and that is more true. If nobody raids then its all PvM. Which both sides PvMers and Pvpers know that champs get done more than raided anyway.

These changes are not going to do squat imo in the difference of a PvM + PvP battle at a spawn. Just more of annoyance for both sides depending how both sides decide to use the changes.

 

[SuperKen]

This change won't effect how my guild spawns either. A drive-by heal is only going to be as effective (if not less so) than a drive-by attack on the champ. It's already been correctly pointed out that it will require only one more character to effectively "solo" spawns while everyone else is out fighting. Nevermind healers trying to come in to heal; we attack everyone who isn't us anyways.

As for protection, we already don't need to heal our sampires or throwers. Disco is usually done by a third character anyways because of the changes to Justice making it difficult to keep up the virtue at all times. Unless the difficulty level of spawns is changed as was suggested earlier, disco isn't even needed for any champ. It's just nice to have around. Spawns can still be "solo"'d by just two characters to get all scrolls.

However, despite this being a non-issue in terms of looting and reward distribution, I do think it's an unnecessary change that feels rather disturbing. It simply doesn't make much sense in the grand scheme of PvP in Fel.

Some have argued that there are no drawbacks to raiding parties trying their hand at different styles and templates but this is a moot point made for the sake of argument: there are no benefits to this change either.

Spawns will still be done and people will still try to raid them. If a player gets through defenses (or there are none) and then decides to heal the champ killer instead of killing the champ killer, the only difference now is that blues can stay blue. Weren't forged pardons created for those who need to take a count anyways?

So less forged pardons are needed by raiding parties...then what's the point of this change? Not only does it feel wrong but there are no benefits either. At least in Fel, in regards to champ spawns.

I do see the potential for this to be rather trolling at EM events in Trammel though. I can simply leech off the work of sampires by constantly healing them and they can't do anything about it. Again, the system has been changed to the detriment of a few but to the benefit of nobody.