Next publish (concerning power scrolls/protection)

[Varrius]

The person that discords a champ receives power scrolls, was that the intention? Normally the discorder will also be the protector at a spawn, but with these changes it will be impossible to do that and receive all of the power scrolls. The protector can't even heal anyone attacking the champ now.

 

[Promathia]

The person that discords a champ receives power scrolls, was that the intention? Normally the discorder will also be the protector at a spawn, but with these changes it will be impossible to do that and receive all of the power scrolls. The protector can't even heal anyone attacking the champ now.

Instead of pvp, lets just heal the enemy when we raid them so we steal their scrolls! YEAAAA

 

[CovenantX]

Instead of pvp, lets just heal the enemy when we raid them so we steal their scrolls! YEAAAA

my thoughts exactly, sounds stupid (Add a party requirement) for healing/assist looting rights please!

 

[Deprave]

Instead of pvp, lets just heal the enemy when we raid them so we steal their scrolls! YEAAAA

This gives a whole new meaning to blue raiding!

This really does mess up the whole protection thing when me and a friend do spawns just the two of us. He usually heals me while I kill the champ and we each make out with 6 scrolls, this could really make things more difficult and unbalance the loot distribution!

 

[Jimmy Pop]

I understand what they are trying to do and it's a good cause. They just lost sight of Champ Spawns completely.

Make it a party thing. You must be in party with the guys you are healing to be eligible for a reward from that boss.

Or even put a toggle on the char... I do NOT want a reward.

 

[aarons6]

im with you guys.. i dont see how this healers get loot rights thing is going to work at all.

that means if i see someone doing something like a champ i can just sit there out of harms way and throw some heals and hope for a drop..

 

[aarons6]

I understand what they are trying to do and it's a good cause. They just lost sight of Champ Spawns completely.

Make it a party thing. You must be in party with the guys you are healing to be eligible for a reward from that boss.

this would be perfect.. its this way with mystic healing so its in the system.

that way if you brought a healer he wouldnt be left out, but a random heal then and there by someone that runs through wont make any difference.

 

[Kellgory]

It seems that when they try to help in one area they end up messing up another. People healing and discording for the longest time weren't getting any of the credit because everything was based off of how much damage did you do. Solution: include healing and disco into the equation and everyone is happy.....except in those cases where people really only want those doing damage to get credit (ie champ spawns). Then again, it seems like champ spawns are so messed up at the moment it really doesn't matter that they add another problem to the mix. Too bad they can't make it where in champ spawn areas certain rules do not apply.

 

[Lady Michelle]

Fel is risk vs reward all theses years doing spawns, and being raided by zergs guilds. Its about time the shoe was on the other foot. Now its time for you to be raided by a guild of zerg healers.

watch out for those wandering healers they might want to get into the action now that they can get scrolls.

 

[Kylie Kinslayer]

New healing deal @ EM Events = OK, don't like it but no biggie, whatever


New healing deal @ Champs = bad, BAD idea.

Just for what it's worth.

 

[chad]

I agree with...everyone in this thread.

 

[Wenchkin]

Well that's one way to balance PvP....make it so nobody wants to kill each other to start with. LMAO.

I always said those wandering healers were up to something. That's why they don't stay in the same area for long, they're just dirty criminals like the rest of us. All that talk about us straying from the path of virtue and this is what they're up to. Just wait till the thieves guild hears about this.

Wenchy

 

[Rupert Avery]

I think its a good idea... you make it sound like only healers get rewards... no it will be just the same as before only your team mate will officially get a chance to have a scroll rather than the damager hand them out

Poor Devs trying hard to create a nice team building way of fighting and you all dis like their efforts...

 

[Promathia]

I think its a good idea... you make it sound like only healers get rewards... no it will be just the same as before only your team mate will officially get a chance to have a scroll rather than the damager hand them out

....I think you miss the whole point

 

[Larisa]

Well this is where we say...think OUTSIDE the box.

When I left, every single one of my characters was really good at what they did, my templates didn't need any tweaking, my gear was perfect.

Then I came back...DOH! Guess what? I'm not so good anymore! I had to re-work templates, gear etc.

NOW people have to RE-THINK the way they do champs..it's really not that hard, is it?

The protector is there to insure that the people killing the champ get the max amount of scrolls possible. The protector cannot harm the boss in any way or they won't get max scrolls...now the protector can't HIT the boss, harm or heal...boring job but if you want the scrolls I guess you have to make due and figure out how to kill it without discord etc.

now granted I've been gone for awhile and I haven't done a champ spawn since I've been back, but whenever we had a protector they wouldn't even stay anywhere near the champ. Dexxors cross-healing each other, pets on it...mages for fielding and keeping others at bay...only now you're going to be keeping HEALERS at bay too.

I really don't see an issue here.

 

[G.v.P]

asked in another thread but can't you still just evil omen spam? or does evil omen (curses) give credit too?

 

[Merus]

While I agree with the overall idea of making it possible for healers and bards to get equal chances at the loot, I believe the Devs have applied the wrong approach to solving the problem. It has been mentioned on the boards on several occasions, we need a party member corpse instance option added. Being part of the party is an easy choice, whether at an event or at a champ spawn. I will not rehash the rational for the corpse instances, but I believe this route would have been more realistic and cause less issues than the current plan.

 

[Picus at the office]

I think its a good idea... you make it sound like only healers get rewards... no it will be just the same as before only your team mate will officially get a chance to have a scroll rather than the damager hand them out

Poor Devs trying hard to create a nice team building way of fighting and you all dis like their efforts...

The issue is not that a team mate has a chance to recieve a scroll, no one cares about that as most established guilds are comfortable with the current scroll setting, it is you cannot have 2 chars finish off a champ whilst leaving the rest(or no one) of your group to guard the spawn.

In a typical setting for my guild we would finish the initial spawn, disco the champ and allow one or more people to kill the champ while the disco char passed out the protection. This was a efficent method that I suspect everyone else used also. Normally there is one dedicated sampire down there who, if needed, would stick around to beat the boss down if a raid happened while everyone else defends/kills/runs around like a headless chicken but if this change happens you will not have the disco char able to act this role.

I suspect that those who don't understand the issue are the same people who are on the wrong side of a losing fight and will see great benifits to the soon to be common tactic of run, heal and scoop scroll.

 

[Mirt]

Actually I see this as a good thing. The protector is supposed to protect those spawning from reds. They haven't been doing this because they haven't been forced and have been allowing one champ killer and one support the protector to help him while everyone else protects. This takes that away and should shake things up in the champ raiding world and that is a great thing. Of course all it really means is that the new best temp for the protector is a stealth archer or thrower in a bestial suit but that’s how things go.

 

[Heimi]

Actually I see this as a good thing. The protector is supposed to protect those spawning from reds. They haven't been doing this because they haven't been forced and have been allowing one champ killer and one support the protector to help him while everyone else protects. This takes that away and should shake things up in the champ raiding world and that is a great thing. Of course all it really means is that the new best temp for the protector is a stealth archer or thrower in a bestial suit but that’s how things go.

I think the point is more that the protector is unable to properly protect the killer under the new system because they will be unable to heal them without potentially receiving a scroll drop themselves.

 

[Mirt]

That’s not really protecting though is it. Protection comes from justice and I think that means it was intended to be protecting from raiding which this will not change. Most of the complaints are tied into folks being active in the killing of the champ one way or another and not protecting against other players so it seems to be intentional not an unintended consequence. People will simply have to learn to adjust.

 

[Bleak]

"Healers, Tanks, and DPS will all be equally counted when receiving looting rights throughout the game."

This change allows us to provide all play-styles with equal rewards throughout the game. Player debuffs are not counted towards credit only healing, damage received, and damage taken. In the case of protecting players, in order to receive the maximum amount of scrolls each player that meets the looting rights requirements will need to be protected to ensure that the protectors receive additional scrolls.

*Note there is currently an issue with receiving power scrolls if there are pets involved with champ spawns in 74 which is being resolved.

 

[Varrius]

Stealth healers....

 

[Kylie Kinslayer]

*Note there is currently an issue with receiving power scrolls if there are pets involved with champ spawns in 74 which is being resolved.

Thanks for helping to clear some of that up. My only question is.. is this being fixed before going live with the changes?

 

[aarons6]

I think its a good idea... you make it sound like only healers get rewards... no it will be just the same as before only your team mate will officially get a chance to have a scroll rather than the damager hand them out

....I think you miss the whole point

i dont think this guy has done any champs at all..

this is a big deal..
right now the only thing to worry about is stealth archer hitting the champ.
if one does, you heal it back up to 100% and start over.

now you gotta worry about someone coming in and healing you.

healing is fast, silent, and you dont have to get close to do it.

one stealth mystic, would make havoc on champs now.
cleansing winds, hide, stealth around, cleansing winds, hide, stealth around.

you can even pre cast.. run through and click..


once someone gets healed you gotta heal the champ back up to 100% and start over..

 

[CovenantX]

I'm pretty sure the Healers getting looting rights has setup for people to do EM Events & have a chance to get drops/loot W/e... So simple fix/es

1) Healing = looting rights, should be enabled in Trammel Rule-set facets only.

2) Healers should need to be in party with those he/she is healing to receive looting rights.

Though if #2) were picked, there should also be some options for dividing loot with partied player...

 

[G.v.P]

Player debuffs are not counted towards credit only healing, damage received, and damage taken.

If I'm reading this right then a necro can still protect and spam evil omen, plus they made it so evil omen works with melee now. If so I don't see the problem, as evil omen protect is pretty solid. Get a thrower and an evil omen spammer and that's one dead 'coon.

 

[Orgional Farimir]

"Healers, Tanks, and DPS will all be equally counted when receiving looting rights throughout the game."

This change allows us to provide all play-styles with equal rewards throughout the game. Player debuffs are not counted towards credit only healing, damage received, and damage taken. In the case of protecting players, in order to receive the maximum amount of scrolls each player that meets the looting rights requirements will need to be protected to ensure that the protectors receive additional scrolls.

*Note there is currently an issue with receiving power scrolls if there are pets involved with champ spawns in 74 which is being resolved.

Which is exactly what the majority of p(l)ayers do NOT want regarding the champ spawns.

Thanks for listening to the people who pay your mortgage, oh wait, that didn't happen.

 

[Viper09]

Which is exactly what the majority of p(l)ayers do NOT want regarding the champ spawns.

Thanks for listening to the people who pay your mortgage, oh wait, that didn't happen.

Then can you enlighten us as to what you think the majority of players want?

 

[Varrius]

The purpose of champ spawns is for one person to get all the scrolls? Maybe I'm not reading this right because that just doesn't sound like what champ spawns are suppose to be about.

Of course not, but usually when a group does a champ spawn, there will be a protector. The protector will get six power scrolls (if they are knight of justice), the group of people will divide them up somehow (usually dice). If the protector were to get a power scroll from hitting the champ/healing other players, then the protector will not get a "protection" scroll.

Basically the maximum amount of scrolls you can get are 12. Six from doing damage to the champ and six from protection scrolls. So if one person is attacking the champ and the protector is healing that person, the maximum you will be able to get in this publish will be 9 scrolls.

 

[Viper09]

Of course not, but usually when a group does a champ spawn, there will be a protector. The protector will get six power scrolls (if they are knight of justice), the group of people will divide them up somehow (usually dice). If the protector were to get a power scroll from hitting the champ/healing other players, then the protector will not get a "protection" scroll.

Basically the maximum amount of scrolls you can get are 12. Six from doing damage to the champ and six from protection scrolls. So if one person is attacking the champ and the protector is healing that person, the maximum you will be able to get in this publish will be 9 scrolls.

Ah ok. Thanks for the clarification. Didn't think I was getting your post correctly.

 

[Varrius]

Then can you enlighten us as to what you think the majority of players want?

The majority of the players don't want "healers" to get power scrolls. Anyone who does champ spawns are against it. People that don't do them don't understand why.

 

[Kylie Kinslayer]

The majority of the players don't want "healers" to get power scrolls.

Healer's getting power scrolls = everyone one gets a trophy in little league, even the losers.


If'n it ain't broke don't fix it imo. Dunno why they keep reinventing the wheel on occasion. I applaud all the work being done, just hate seeing change for the worse. Guess we will all get used to the new deal soon enough tho.

 

[Viper09]

The majority of the players don't want "healers" to get power scrolls. Anyone who does champ spawns are against it. People that don't do them don't understand why.

I see this change as a great thing for EM events. Aside from the same groups who frequent champ spawns it is also a good change for the non-pvp guilds who will give a shot at spawns too. While I understand the reasons for the pvpers not to like the change, I can also see why this change is good for everyone else. It just goes to show how you can't always get a good balance for both pvpers and pvmers.

 

[Orgional Farimir]

The majority of the players don't want "healers" to get power scrolls. Anyone who does champ spawns are against it. People that don't do them don't understand why.

and the majority of payers who do champ spawns wants the justice system to work like it did 6 months ago.

If it isn't broke don't fix it. God knows there are enough things broke with this game that needs fixed. Maybe the Dev's should fix those first.

 

[Orgional Farimir]

I see this change as a great thing for EM events. Aside from the same groups who frequent champ spawns it is also a good change for the non-pvp guilds who will give a shot at spawns too. While I understand the reasons for the pvpers not to like the change, I can also see why this change is good for everyone else. It just goes to show how you can't always get a good balance for both pvpers and pvmers.

If anything it will hurt the PvMers more than the PvPers. At least the PvPer's will have an easier time fighting/killing a stealth healer who is trying to take the scrolls because they have a little bit more expierence. If a PvM guild is doing a spawn and a stealth healer drops in it will be harder for them to kill him or keep him from healing so he doesn't get any scrolls.

 

[Bleak]

Of course not, but usually when a group does a champ spawn, there will be a protector. The protector will get six power scrolls (if they are knight of justice), the group of people will divide them up somehow (usually dice). If the protector were to get a power scroll from hitting the champ/healing other players, then the protector will not get a "protection" scroll.

Basically the maximum amount of scrolls you can get are 12. Six from doing damage to the champ and six from protection scrolls. So if one person is attacking the champ and the protector is healing that person, the maximum you will be able to get in this publish will be 9 scrolls.

Incorrect you will still be able to receive 12 scrolls but it now requires more than three players. Player A attacks champ, Player B heals Player A, Player C protects A, and Player D protects Player B.

 

[Viper09]

If anything it will hurt the PvMers more than the PvPers. At least the PvPer's will have an easier time fighting/killing a stealth healer who is trying to take the scrolls because they have a little bit more expierence. If a PvM guild is doing a spawn and a stealth healer drops in it will be harder for them to kill him or keep him from healing so he doesn't get any scrolls.

I wouldn't think so. To me it really seems the pvpers who frequent the spawns seem to care too much about getting every single scrolls, which is ok, but part of a point I'm trying to make. Not everyone cares so much about making sure they get the max amount scrolls and ensuring that any other person gets absolutely nothing. Personally I wouldn't care if I get a few less scrolls.

 

[Varrius]

Incorrect you will still be able to receive 12 scrolls but it now requires more than three players. Player A attacks champ, Player B heals Player A, Player C protects A, and Player D protects Player B.

Actually what I said is exactly correct. If the protector is healing the person attacking the champ, the maximum amount of scrolls you can get is 9. It's not what players want, why are you changing it? Also in your description, why wouldn't player C be able to protect both A and B instead of needing D to protect anyone? I think even you are confused on this topic.

 

[Varrius]

1) Healing = looting rights, should be enabled in Trammel Rule-set facets only

I think that's the best and easiest way to solve this.

 

[Theo_GL]

The majority of the players don't want "healers" to get power scrolls. Anyone who does champ spawns are against it. People that don't do them don't understand why.

Quote of the day.....

 

[Theo_GL]

Incorrect you will still be able to receive 12 scrolls but it now requires more than three players. Player A attacks champ, Player B heals Player A, Player C protects A, and Player D protects Player B.

Do you guys even play the game?

It requires 3 people with healing not 4:

Player A attacks champ, Player B heals Player A, Player C protects Player A and B.

Of course, it takes one player the way I do it.

Player A attacks champ.
Player A has second account with Player B hidden protecting player A.

Player A/B gets 12 scrolls - provided no one runs in and heals Player A attacking champ.

 

[flappy6]

who's on first,what's on second?.......... so they are tryin to make it so 2 people cant do the spawn and get 12 scrolls,well then get us some more people to play with lol

 

[flappy6]

oh i see they want you to buy 2 more accounts ,so you have to pay for 4 accounts to do the spawn

 

[flappy6]

and they still added it wrong becuz you wouldnt get 12 scrolls lol,they must be playin star wars or somethin

 

[aarons6]

Incorrect you will still be able to receive 12 scrolls but it now requires more than three players. Player A attacks champ, Player B heals Player A, Player C protects A, and Player D protects Player B.

why dont you guys stop adding new crap and fix the broken stuff and work on hd graphics..


every patch makes this game worse for EC.. more crashes, more bugs.

 

[goldenpower]

Incorrect you will still be able to receive 12 scrolls but it now requires more than three players. Player A attacks champ, Player B heals Player A, Player C protects A, and Player D protects Player B.

just another step towards the Trammelization of Felucca.

sorry, but no one asked for this

this all started with instanced corpses. no one wanted it put it in Fel and it was done anyway.

just keep the Trammel stuff in Trammel and keep the Felucca stuff in Felucca. why is that so difficult?

the winner should get the spoils through victory. no one should be able to beat you by healing you. it doesn't make any sense.

 

[Viper09]

the winner should get the spoils through victory. not having someone ruin the whole thing by running in and healing you or making it more difficult to win by requiring all these strange rules.

that doesn't even make sense. no one should be able to beat you by healing you. it's stupid.

and Viper I don't think you understand. when a guild wins a fight they share the scrolls. it's not like Trammel where everyone is psycho greedy over it.

heck back in the day when you had to loot Doom artifacts if anyone in our guild looted one we would roll dice to see who got it.

Yes...I do and did understand that. My question was over what the OP had written who already sufficiently answered it...

 

[chad]

Incorrect you will still be able to receive 12 scrolls but it now requires more than three players. Player A attacks champ, Player B heals Player A, Player C protects A, and Player D protects Player B.

What? No. Under your suggested system in question, it only requires three, not more than three. One guy to do nothing except protect the healer and the attacker. However, that is not the question at hand, I just figured I should clear up how your system would work.

The issue here, is that you want to ruin one of the only PvP generating events in the game. Leave it alone.

Edit: Oops, someone already beat me to correcting the software engineer.

 

[Theo_GL]

sorry, but no one asked for this and it's stupid.

just keep the Trammel stuff in Trammel and keep the Felucca stuff in Felucca. why is that so difficult?

this all started with instanced corpses. EVERYONE begged you not to put it in Fel and you did it anyway.

:bowdown:

Exactly. Show me the long list of posts in UHall asking for healer looting rights.

I mean, if the healer is part of the group - just add to party and they get looting rights via party.

This is perhaps one of the least needed things in game. We can't get a $%^ option to sort bods in a book alphabetically, we can't get a 'price all' option on bod books, we can't get manequins to add up armor resists and display them, we can't get blessed items to re-equip when you touch your corpse, half the things in game that should stack don't stack....and yet you waste dev cycles on healing looting changes that screw up champs.

It amazes me on a daily basis that this game continues to survive. We've lost so many dev's that new how the game worked and now we have a dev team that just throws stuff out willy nilly without even considering the impact or consequences.

How about you get a focus group of people that actually play the game and we can tell you in 5 min whether your 'ideas' are good or bad.

This one would have been laughed off by the first focus group in about 7 seconds.