My thoughts

[thenow]

This statement from MissEcho said it all for me and the quote frm Ovrkll always said it all. I agree with it completely (or mostly anyways ). I advise all to read it with no biased attitude. If you argue with this then you probably will so with insults and lack of intelligent thought. If you argue with it with respect then I will listen to you.
THIS IS WHY THERE IS NO PVP THREAD

I am also from Oceania, and like a lot of other Oceania players don't bother to post on OUR forum any more. You can see by this thread why that would be so. Of the group I am in NONE will post on our forum they figure leave it to the kids, it is now at the point that they think they are the Majority and if they wish to think that who cares. The rest of us voted with our feet ages ago and stopped posting.

However, coming to this forum and bringing their childishness that they display on Oceania to here and then claiming they speak for ALL Oceanians is certainly not the case.

As it is the Forum Mod who closed down their pvp thread said and I quote:

Quote:
Ovrkill:

To be perfectly honest about the PVP thread and everything that has been said.

1: Dont point the finger at Katlene for reporting posts in the PVP thread. Your so way off target that it makes me laugh. Its the PVPers themselves who complain the most about posts within the PVP thread, especially when there is a personal insult... why ? because they want to cause trouble for the players in the forum as well as in game.

2: I gave you guys time to chill out and come back to eath. There was way to much on the personal insults. Yes i did enjoy the PVP thread, but when it started to get flooded with the personal insults, it became a joke to let it stay open. And even with a break from the PVP thread, you guys have this thread and cant help yourself but point fingers at people and come out with the insults yet again. I have asked time and time again for you folk to show me that you are above this, and show me that if i re open the PVP thread that you will be in more control of yourselves and make it a fun thread to have again.

3: The PVP thread would have never existed if it wasnt for me, everyone wanted to shut it down before it even started, but i went against the lot of them and did it anyway because i believed you guys deserved to have your own place to rant and rave, I put the rules up and made sure they were enforced. But you guys still didnt learn. Show me im not wasting my time by defending the PVP thread....

You guys know the rules, if you seriously want the PVP thread back, then prove to me that you are all adults and know the difference between having fun and taking it too far. Go back and edit your posts within this thread and take out the things that you KNOW shouldnt be posted. Then PM me and tell me what you have done to clean it up.

Then i will make a decision if it comes back now.... or later....

and the whole thread this was taken from is http://vboards.stratics.com/showthread.php?t=141568

As you can see by the level of intelligent posts in this thread, and the attitude this element displays to the rest of the players on our shard is it really any wonder why our shard has about 10-20% of it's player base left.

I have no doubt I will now be attacked by this 'crowd' for having the temerity to voice a different opinion, it is what happens on our board all the time and why most of the Trammel population don't really bother with that board anymore.

Go back to the Oceania board please. You don't need to embarrass the whole of our shard with this rot.


Siding with Para and pettles in THEIR ARGUEMENT STYLES is doing no one any favours. Taking the 'debate' (if thats what you call it!!) to the UO Hall and demostrating the type of 'debate' points that were expressed will certainly keep the pvp thread closed and will show the civilised world how uncivilised you really are. People in a public forum WILL respond to such insulting and lack of respect behaviour

Again I say, if you can not hear the words of Miss Echo's quote and or my own(or others from the wider community) then there is nothing more that can be done until you do and the PVP will never return.
If a person thinks that he/she can not show respect to others because that requires 'bowing down' to them then that in itself is the problem. Showing respect is not an obtion for that type of person,
Seriously, the other pvp forum, why did you guys leave their? Isn't that what you wanted? Or do you secretly want to be part of the community? If so, then, Show some RESPECT for the community

PS- Most boxers and fighters from any of the fight games do not 'banter' as you guys say. Most don't banter at all.And those that do are look down upon by 80% of all other fighters. Fighters more often then not ,show RESPECT to each other. If any sportsman trashed talked half what you guys do then, they'd be charged legally, suspended by the sports boards and fined.You could only imagine what the media would do to you.

 

[Clog|Mordain]

If you look closely to the previous few threads you will notice that every pvper was behaving in a discussion until someone baited them, or atleast attempted to bait them. Need proof?

Buncha lil kids that lost their toys.

didnt last to long before pet started sticking his nose into forums where he 'didnt belong' and posting rubbish

I found them quickly skim-reading(sp?) the Trammies for PVP Thread thread.

You will probably find that there is a certain few people on the forum that enjoy baiting people like petrify and paradox.

Need I say more?

I am expecting this thread to be locked as soon as Ovr comes online too.

 

[Farscape]

I think you miss the point
when someone calls you a moron or a spastic along with other degrading words and continus to use agressive targeting you cross the line and in real life it would be acted upon in a court of law.
Here you get a simple padlock

 

[Katlene]

heh more like looking for things i posted rather then skimming

I was replying to someone, not baiting, if i was baiting i would of wanted them to bite, and i didnt. id prefer it if they (whom were mentioned above) didnt post at all, but no one gets what they want here.
Me saying that im for the pvp thread coming back keeps getting missed. It gave them their little outlet and left the other threads in peace. At at times it was intersting reading.
I learnt a fair bit just from reading things on there and its given me some ideas at what im going to do when i make my new char when i get some free time to play again.

One day it will be realised that if you speak to others curtiously and with no negativity things will go the way you want.
Friendly banter is great, its just people have a habit of getting nasty and then the padlocks come out and rage flies.
Its so basic.

Good luck to the 'pvp-ers' with their appeal.

 

[Lord Gareth]

I'm just visiting the Oceania shard today but just had a little small question. Why would you start another thread about the PvP thread when 5+ other threads have been locked over them?

I'm not trying to bait you just someone on the outside. Who this morning saw the Uhall thread and made my way here. I never thought anything bad by the Uhall post about Oceania players just that a group was having a problem. I like how your mods and news people are so just up front about it all as well but, don't worry ill be back in my little Chesapeake corner tomorrow *smiles*

Just a second small question again not trying to bait since I'm an outsider.

Friendly banter is great, its just people have a habit of getting nasty and then the padlocks come out and rage flies.
Its so basic.

Good luck to the 'pvp-ers' with their appeal.

Why does the pad lock need to be thrown on? I know posts can be edited by the mods and why some ruining the post gets it locked does confuse me. Why not just start banning stratics accounts? Or give the next time you do this you banned and actually ban the account.

I can also tell from your posts Katlene that you want the pvpers here I didn't miss your wanting the pvp thread in your posts. So not everyone missed the message you were trying to say. *smiles*

 

[Clog|Mordain]

I think you miss the point
when someone calls you a moron or a spastic along with other degrading words and continus to use agressive targeting you cross the line and in real life it would be acted upon in a court of law.
Here you get a simple padlock

So calling someone/people the following isnt meant to be an insult? Sounds like one to me.

Buncha lil kids that lost their toys.

 

[Clog|Mordain]

Most boxers and fighters from any of the fight games do not 'banter' as you guys say. Most don't banter at all.And those that do are look down upon by 80% of all other fighters. Fighters more often then not ,show RESPECT to each other. If any sportsman trashed talked half what you guys do then, they'd be charged legally, suspended by the sports boards and fined.You could only imagine what the media would do to you.

Umm... i just read this part again.

What are you on about? WE PLAY A COMPUTER GAME! ITS NOT REAL! what does a computer game have to do with sports? NOTHING!

 

[thenow]

Now Clog, your attitude,this is want I mean. Paradox knows what I'm refering to. If you do not then ask me, do not presume, thus the attitude of your comment.
Read some of his posts about the comment then return to me and ask again.


Lord Gareth, I understand you query. I notified the Mod as soon as I posted my thread. I am a member of this community who PvP's mostly, I have reds and blues who PvP(as most of oceania know). I have attempted to post my comments numerous times but because of locks, I've missed out.
But most importantly, the reason I started this thread is put my influence/input into the discussion in hope of helping the "PvP" community to argue their points intelligently and thus getting the PvP thread re opened.

 

[Paradox_]

I have no idea what you are referring too.

I highly doubt any insults directed at anyone in the PvP thread was taken seriously. People in it, except the people who butt in when it has nothing to dow ith them (thenow - this is you - YOU DONT PLAY) get offended at take it seriously. You really think me calling Elwood a stupid dumb donation collector actually HURTS HIM!? FFS, ITS AN ONLINE COMPUTER GAME. THEY ARE JUST WORDS. And it has made him try to kill me all the more in game. Its fun. You think I care they call me a bookkeeper at H&R block? I couldnt give a toss!

Essentially, the people complaining about the thread are the ones that ARENT EVEN INVOLVED IN IT.

And yes, you all bait, by sticking your nose in where it doesnt belong. Leave us along in our thread and we will leave your precious 'HEY GUYS I TAMED A GREATER DRAGON' threads alone.

God damn stupid people make me ANGRY.

 

[five oclock]

and another Deep thought questioning a MODS decission...

Ok folks seriously...

UO pulls the plug. Game over..Time to find a new game..and all of this is just dust in the wind


Why oh why does this keep getting brought up on the STRATICS boards. The MOD has spoken..lets move on. Not hard to do

Everyone has there thoughts on how this board should be run. Well thats why the people in charge are the people in charge. PM them. Heck Flood them with your concern. Thats how you get stuff done. Not just complaining on the Public boards....

Why keep bringing something up on the boards thats probally going to be edited or locked again. It DOES NO USE. Plz just beat your head on the wall. At least that way the wall will get some attetion.

again just my 2 cents...People have been saying this game is going to end for 11 years now...and for some reason this game keeps on going...but lately..with everything going on in ALL the servers...and all the new online games Cough the ad for Wow On the stratics boards cough....

Im starting to bet.....Its time to enjoy and help one another IN the game....

 

[siyeng0]

and another Deep thought questioning a MODS decission...

Ok folks seriously...
UO pulls the plug. Game over..Time to find a new game..
Why oh why does this keep getting brought up on the STRATICS boards. The MOD has spoken..lets move on. Not hard to do
Everyone has there thoughts on how this board should be run. Well thats why the people in charge are the people in charge. PM them. Heck Flood them with your concern. Thats how you get stuff done. Not just complaining on the boards....
Why keep bringing something up on the boards thats probally going to be edited or locked again. It DOES NO USE. Plz just beat your head on the wall. At least that way the wall will get some attetion.

I am curious. I see you quite often on the Napa forums. Do you even play Oceania?

 

[five oclock]

after much thought..this Question should of been asked in a Private msg..and NOT on the boards. You understand being very off topic and so. Don't want to be called a troll now right?

So check your in box. Someone who has probally read everyone one of my posts will know how to do that thank you

 

[siyeng0]

So check your in box. Someone who has probally read everyone one of my posts will know how to do that thank you

"Welcome, siyeng0. You last visited: Yesterday at 2:40 PM. Private Messages: Unread 0, Total 38."

How intriguing. You just sent me on a wild goose chase to the top of the page. Also, following two forums at once may be a task-juggling feat that is beyond your capabilities, but it hardly constitutes reading "everyone one of my posts." I am not stalking you. I just so happen to read the boards for both Napa and Oceania, along with several other shards, for my own personal reasons that until now did not involve you.

Edit: I stand corrected. My inbox is no longer empty. My apologies.

 

[iddqd]

oh, and byt he way 5:00, i guarantee the very LAST thing you ever want is for UO to be like siege on any shard with players like those in sso. YOURE the one that hides behind the 'cushiness', i assure you.

 

[five oclock]

5:00 has to be the MOST clueless tram ive yet seen on this shard.


ive pvp'd on seige. Ive pvp'd on test. I've pvp'ed on atlantic and pacific, whilst x-ferring over there to sell items and ps.

merely being in fel and casting the odd spell or double-clicking at the slideshow on the screen is NOT PVPING YOU DUMBASS TRAM.


ps. i was 100% right about ovrkill taking your idiotic words as justification. he also conveniently ignores katlenes trolling (and being someone who obviously loves a good troll myself, i can spot them) and harps at others about how badly behaved they are, when really, their words having nothing to do with anyone but the people INVOLVED.

this thread will get locked in a second, and the simple fact of the matter is that clueless morons like this guy and katlene and responses to them like ovrkills are a major reason why this game is dead.

aye..and when UO is finally canceled it will be the trammy fault tho right? Even tho trammy been around longer in years than fel. Lets see..Fel play style been around what? 2 years 3years before tram came out?" Since Tram came out UO been going at it for what? 8 years 9 years? Even tho it has fel...People like playing trammy...So...Please..Do the math...

Since you did stay on topic also I dont see how this thread will be locked..Unless for the clueless moron remark...and again I say bring it on Words don't mean **** on these boards have you all NOT figured that out yet?

Edit...

Ok again..Plz read the rules of the board before posting again..K? Or better yet...MAKE yoUR OWN MSG BOARD! you seem to have the time to post remarks on here. Make your own. Make it a free for all. Simple as that. The Mod has spoken. Why do we keep fighting over this thing. Is the circle of fighting really that a major factor in your life? Plz. If you have a problem with my comments PM me with it. Don't post it on a stratics boards that U HAVE NO control over and you have to obey by there rules and just cause grief for everyone...Hey on the bright side at least you have the mods staying on there toes...which I think they would rather be fighting... Ok? plz move along.. you have your thoughts I have mine..But the Mods have spoken...

 

[iddqd]

yes, when UO died, it WAS the fault of trammel. note the past tense. it is kept creeping along in undeath by EA (the MOST cut-throat business-minded publisher, i can assure you) simply because the residual numbers and probably low ongoing cost means that it would most likely be more expensive to cancel it than to just let it keep running. spend a bit of cash every now and again, adding useless pixels like OMG A NEW FLOWERBED, then monetise it by allowing trams to spend actual money on the pixels and scrape in a bit more cash.

and the math involves subscriptions numbers, moron. watch the peaks and troughs of subscriptions with UO pre/post trammel

 

[five oclock]

and since this thread like SO many of the PvP threads have been flamed and Derailed...heck like most of the PvP thread on most of the shards...I will say this...and only this...

EA games is BUSINESS. Its goal Is to make money..Or have you NEVER seen that in Customer service or paging a GM? Hello? Now whos really the ....na not worth getting in trouble for it..Let me just give you a mirror the next time you post..

Seriously..Since this thread has been SO derailed by people who DON'T have a clue about how things REALLY work..Please go on How you know so much about life and how most people want a PVP game..etc etc.,..

Go out there..There are TONS of pvP games..Heck thats all you do. lets see..Warhammer online. Darkfall or I think thats the name of it to just NAME a few...Seriously..go out there and find a new game..This whole battle of trammy VS Fel has been going on for so long most people have moved on...Isnt it time to do the same?

EDIT: you are right UO died A Long time ago...and we continue to pay as we play....when we know most of the pvpers have left for greener pastors..and are enjoying it...

So what was this thread about agian?

 

[five oclock]

oh, and byt he way 5:00, i guarantee the very LAST thing you ever want is for UO to be like siege on any shard with players like those in sso. YOURE the one that hides behind the 'cushiness', i assure you.

Your right..I could not agree more...I do hide alot and do other things... But then again playing a shard thats closer to what UO was or Could of been..is better than....

Now if you want to continue this fight about morons and people who dont have a clue..PM mE. Plz..Just remember UO was one of the first Online games..It is the longest lasting online game..and I really dont care for insults...actually thats kinda of an ego boost since you really cant think of anything else to say other than to insult me and I prove you wrong. PLZ Pm me. leave the insults out tho Thank you...

Now what was this thread about again?

 

[iddqd]

actually, as far as the mass-market goes, pvp'ers (players that look for pvp as the major motivating factor to play) form about 10% of the market. however, this research is about 3-4 years old, and if there was a new study, i would suggest that number would be much higher now, as the market leader in MMO's - wow - is placing a sizeable influence on its game into becoming an e-sport, through pvp, specifically the 'arenas' which are a pvp side game.

UO however, began as, and has always been a heavily pvp-focussed game. its intention wasnt that, as richard garriott - the founder - is a MASSIVE tram and didnt realise people would behave as such. consequently, i am sure if one were to undertake a study of UO players, both paying and free-shard (though particularly free-shard), i would expect one would find that the majority of players in UO would lean towards a pvp-centric playstyle.

 

[iddqd]

this thread is about trams highjacking other peoples enjoyment by throwing their little vocal minority arms up in the air and crying foul, which only results in a lack of general interest and fading in participation.

these threads were once a lot of fun, and forum pvp-ing is something one can engage in at work between other things. the parry-and-thrust of childish bickering may well be lost upon you, but a simple look at froum participation vindicates pvp'ers perspective and the pvp thread

and the reason the game itself is brought up in discussions of this nature is this forum serves as a really useful analogy to discuss the decline of the game (and vice versa).

 

[five oclock]

actually, as far as the mass-market goes, pvp'ers (players that look for pvp as the major motivating factor to play) form about 10% of the market. however, this research is about 3-4 years old, and if there was a new study, i would suggest that number would be much higher now, as the market leader in MMO's - wow - is placing a sizeable influence on its game into becoming an e-sport, through pvp, specifically the 'arenas' which are a pvp side game.

UO however, began as, and has always been a heavily pvp-focussed game. its intention wasnt that, as richard garriott - the founder - is a MASSIVE tram and didnt realise people would behave as such. consequently, i am sure if one were to undertake a study of UO players, both paying and free-shard (though particularly free-shard), i would expect one would find that the majority of players in UO would lean towards a pvp-centric playstyle.

Ok..since you DO NOT want to take this to PM..and this is SO a trolling post...


richard garriott took the money and RAN! HELLO..does that NOT ring up any bells? he took the money and RAN! If the guy can afford to head to the space station he sure as heck he has the money to Buy UO again. Lets me behonest. Hes gone..Deal with it.

As for WoW. Have you really every played it? Come one now..The pvp stinks..Nuff said.

Free shards...Lol..that right there is a joke in itself..Proving you have never played a free shard and have no clue on what you are talking about when it comes to that. If you know the owner of the server guess what...or heck if ya buddies with someone that owns the sever...Can you say GOD mode?

Why is it..you say only 10 percent want the PvP...then where does that leave the other 90 percent that want to play online games?

again MOSt of us are OLD pvpers looking for the golden days of UO..which are Dead and gone..Deal with it. Now again..as i said before...since you want to fight on the boards to prove your ego Please take this to PM..Ok?

 

[Paradox_]

lol, isnt it funny that the biggest trolls are the ones complaining about trolling WHO START IT IN THE FIRST PLACE then cry foul?

I hate idiots.

 

[iddqd]

ok, you lack reading comprehension skills.

accordingly, ill just end with this: what the hell man if they are coming at you,means they want somthin, more better you look after them and care for them.

 

[five oclock]

Na not trolling...just respecting a MODS descions until someone who can make it a Private wants to make it public for all the people to read...This subject has been brought up ALOT lately..and the MOD has spoken...Thats not trolling..

As for a business...You look after the people?? hahahahaha thats a great laugh,..

Dude...In this dog eat dog world..you take the money and run...Plz dont talk to me about business...richard garriott took the money and ran...Anyone one of us will..Espically when you relaized you are dealing with pixles that can be turned off at any time...Hey offer me TONS of money..Sure anyone of us will take it...and then say See ya...richard garriott was NOT all that..sorry he can say what he wants now that HE took the money..not that he sold out...But the truth remainds..he did take the money...

Since he made his last comment..Ill make mine too..To the blessing of alot of people here..

UO is dead...its been dead for a long time...We...U and I..Who continue to PAY as we play..keep it going on under life support....The game is NEVER going to be the game it once was...lets deal with that and move on..Call me what ever you want...we ALL know its the truth...

EDIT:

I do have to say..these boards have been on fire lately...

 

[iddqd]

richard garriott was/is a clueless, out of touch tram, a fact shown by the abject failure of his later projects. he had no intention of UO became, he genuinely thought most people would be role-playing lovely weddings, and fighting terrible dragons, decorating their houses etc etc, and not doing what people do - fighting and killing each other. he lucked out, and had the foresight (or was pushed out) to sell at just the right time. he is an utter irrelevancy, and i would really like discussion to stop about him as it is THE most pointless angle here.

 

[Ovrkill]

If you look closely to the previous few threads you will notice that every pvper was behaving in a discussion until someone baited them, or atleast attempted to bait them. Need proof?





I found them quickly skim-reading(sp?) the Trammies for PVP Thread thread.

You will probably find that there is a certain few people on the forum that enjoy baiting people like petrify and paradox.

Need I say more?

I am expecting this thread to be locked as soon as Ovr comes online too.

You all bait each other, there is no one sided argument here. Its a given.

no matter how you guys try and twist and turn what other people say, its blatantly obvious.

Give it a rest, your only making yourselves look stupid, and if you think admin are dumb enough to believe the dribble you post in argument to why there is no pvp thread, i suggest you think again about it.

 

[siyeng0]

EDIT:
I do have to say..these boards have been on fire lately...

And why are the boards on fire? Because all the PvPers have something to talk about. Therefore, they've all returned - temporarily, admittedly, but they've returned. Doesn't this prove what we're saying? The majority of the active Oceania population are PvPers. If you drive them away, you're driving the active population away, and the board will die.

It's so simple!

 

[Ovrkill]

I have no idea what you are referring too.

I highly doubt any insults directed at anyone in the PvP thread was taken seriously. People in it, except the people who butt in when it has nothing to dow ith them (thenow - this is you - YOU DONT PLAY) get offended at take it seriously. You really think me calling Elwood a stupid dumb donation collector actually HURTS HIM!? FFS, ITS AN ONLINE COMPUTER GAME. THEY ARE JUST WORDS. And it has made him try to kill me all the more in game. Its fun. You think I care they call me a bookkeeper at H&R block? I couldnt give a toss!

Essentially, the people complaining about the thread are the ones that ARENT EVEN INVOLVED IN IT.

And yes, you all bait, by sticking your nose in where it doesnt belong. Leave us along in our thread and we will leave your precious 'HEY GUYS I TAMED A GREATER DRAGON' threads alone.

God damn stupid people make me ANGRY.

There is an incredibly big difference between an ingame insult/banter and a personal insult.

you people need to learn that difference and stay away from the personal insults.

It was stated quite clearly in the PVP rules about personal insults, and you all have ignored that rule on countless occasions.

Hence no pvp thread for you

Also, other people dont think the same way that you do, you may be ble to distance yourself from the slanderous words, but there are others who can not, hence the reason for such rules that are in place. Think outside your own square and have respect for how others might feel.

this is not directed at you paradox, it is directed at everyone.

 

[iddqd]

ovrkill, there is no valid argument as to why there is no pvp thread. it is so simple to moderate its a joke. no graphic images, no bypassing the language filter and no posting of others personal details. breaking of those rules = ban. you point out a zero-tolerance policy to those participating - 0 warnings - and leave it at that.

 

[iddqd]

saying 'no personal insults' is self-fulfulling prophecy and merely making life difficult for yourself, as one persons fact is anothers personal insult. meaning that the definition of a personal insult is SO broad as to be completely unpoliceable.

leave a disclaimer that 'all ye who enter here be warned' as to personal insults. the only people who really care about that are not the ones who the thread is for.

 

[Paradox_]

You have to also understand that you put clear warnings in the thread - dont go in if you cant stand it.

People went in, couldnt stand it, then complain. Thats like saying WARNING: THIS NEWS BROADCAST MAY CONTAIN GRAPHIC IMAGES, you watching it, then complaining that you did.

Can you not see that not having a PvP thread has hurt the shard AND this forum? There have been more threads about this and anything since it was closed.

I dont see why it was so difficult to close it for a few days if it got too much. Seemed to work.

Further, if you see what derailed the threads to begin with it, it had alot to do with trollers and people who arent involved in PvP sticking their nose in and baiting people, giving their two cents and trying to act as the police when it didnt need to be?

I dare you to find anyone who was actually offended by what we say. Thenow doesnt count for 2 reasons - 1. he doesnt PLAY THE GAME 2. he got offended because what we were saying was the actual truth.

You really think Elwood cares what I call him? Or clog? Nah, cos its all banter mate. Personal insults, bah. Only an insult if its true. It enhances the game - you dont PvP with us so you wouldnt know.

 

[Ovrkill]

And why are the boards on fire? Because all the PvPers have something to talk about. Therefore, they've all returned - temporarily, admittedly, but they've returned. Doesn't this prove what we're saying? The majority of the active Oceania population are PvPers. If you drive them away, you're driving the active population away, and the board will die.

It's so simple!

REGARDLESS of that fact, if everyone doesnt follow the rules and show respect to each other, then there will never be a pvp thread again.

again, this is not directed solely at the pvpers, but at both sides of the fence.

 

[Ovrkill]

ovrkill, there is no valid argument as to why there is no pvp thread. it is so simple to moderate its a joke. no graphic images, no bypassing the language filter and no posting of others personal details. breaking of those rules = ban. you point out a zero-tolerance policy to those participating - 0 warnings - and leave it at that.

yup i agree, but it got to a point where it was a joke to let it continue because it was having countless personal insults from both sides each time it was opened and cleaned out.

i have said it a million times, and YES this IS the most VALID point, STOP the personal insults and you get your pvp thread back.... is that so damn hard ???

 

[iddqd]

we understand that distinction, ovrkill, we also understand that your comments are directed at everyone - this is not the issue. the issue is the rules made were unsuited to the idea of the thread, thus consigning the thread to an inevitable death.

i suggest instead that the moderators look at how they set the rules for the thread and dont place everyone, including themselves, into a situation where the thread becomes untenable by default.

quite simply, you place a little bit of personal responsibility (admittedly not gamers strongest suit) on participants and leave disclaimers. the rules you leave as open as possible (the ones i suggested above would be what i would have) and warn of a zero tolerance of breaking the loose rules AND for people frivolously trying to get others into trouble (ie complaining for the sake of it). pick your battles a bit better and youll see both a more active thread, and possibly even a more active in-game community.

 

[Ovrkill]

saying 'no personal insults' is self-fulfulling prophecy and merely making life difficult for yourself, as one persons fact is anothers personal insult. meaning that the definition of a personal insult is SO broad as to be completely unpoliceable.

leave a disclaimer that 'all ye who enter here be warned' as to personal insults. the only people who really care about that are not the ones who the thread is for.

cant do that in regards to personal insults, if this was a private forum then you could get away with it, but its not, and there are many people who view this forum and would be disgusted and insulted by the personal insults that are posted.

again, how hard is it ?

Ive laid down my gauntlet over and over and over again over the past month with this, none of you have the intestinal fortitude to pick it up and show me you can actually do it.

and no! this is not directed at you in particular.... its for everyone.

 

[Paradox_]

If we dont get an opportunity to prove it, how can you expect us to stop it?

Especialyl when all we have to post in stupid threads like 'OHH YAY A FISHING TRIP'

Doesnt interest us in the slightest.

 

[iddqd]

personal insults staying with the LOOSE bounds of

a) not bypassing language filter

b) not including actual personal information (names, pictures, addresses, phone numbers etc)

should be perfectly fine. logically, you CANNOT police a 'no personal insults' rule outside this, as you have to sit there and have people whine about being called 'a little kid who lost his toys' or a 'tram' and trying to one-up each other in trying to get the mods to find one or the other (or both) falling foul of the law.

the rule is what is the problem, not the behaviour, per se.

 

[Benny Lava]

exactly, we can't prove ourselves if you don't give us a thread to prove it in.

 

[Ovrkill]

If we dont get an opportunity to prove it, how can you expect us to stop it?

Especialyl when all we have to post in stupid threads like 'OHH YAY A FISHING TRIP'

Doesnt interest us in the slightest.

lol you all have had the opportunity!

the past few threads have been your chance

I even asked you all in a previous thread to show what you can do.... and yet you all still need to do the insults.

I can not back down from this until im shown that you can all do the right thing.

So show me!

I have no problem bringing back the pvp thread.... but if the personal insults come flooding back again, then it will just be written off once again.
Time will tell......

 

[Paradox_]

Mate - how CAN WE SHOW IT? We arent going to post in the trammies thread because it doesnt interest us.

Do you not want us to post AT ALL?

I cant understand what you are saying.

 

[iddqd]

ovrkill, id really recommmend you try and work it so you can relax the 'personal insults' rule before placing the pvp thread back. the personal insults are as much a part of forum pvp as precasting is part of actual pvp. the language filter is there for a good reason, let it do its job, and anyone bypassing that gets banned, while anyone posting actual personal info also gets banned. its the simplest, most effective solution.

 

[Clog|Mordain]

And why are the boards on fire? Because all the PvPers have something to talk about. Therefore, they've all returned - temporarily, admittedly, but they've returned. Doesn't this prove what we're saying? The majority of the active Oceania population are PvPers. If you drive them away, you're driving the active population away, and the board will die.

It's so simple!

This man. He knows.

 

[Clog|Mordain]

You really think Elwood cares what I call him? Or clog? Nah, cos its all banter mate. Personal insults, bah. Only an insult if its true. It enhances the game - you dont PvP with us so you wouldnt know.

QTF

No one cares about personal insults over the internet. Afterall they are just pixels and words. WHO CARES!

 

[siyeng0]

Personal Insults:

"You are a fat housewife" = personal insult.

"You house-hide and chug pots even if you outnumber us seven to one" = personal insult.

"You can't play a mage" = personal insult.

"You smell like cabbage" = personal insult.

"You were so cowardly that you ran from siyeng0's roleplay character even though he was completely naked and unarmed and then came back and killed him with a greater dragon*" = personal insult.

*True story.


Here is the problem. "Personal insults" is a very vague term. It is impossible to criticise someone else's performance in PvP without insulting them; otherwise the thread would degenerate into mindless back-patting constructive "Well, first off, I really admire your clever use of pots, but could you maybe just consider relying a little less heavily on your speed-hacking tool? It's just my personal opinion, I'm not saying that you have to give up the tool if you don't feel ready..." foolery, which would be an absurdist masterpiece but no fun for anybody.

Forum PvP is an important part of the gameplay, I think. It's been repeatedly spelt out that the majority of people who are cussed out in the PvP threads don't mind the abuse; otherwise, they would not keep coming back. What you don't seem to realise is that the really hurtful insults are only in response to provocation. If someone who doesn't know what they're talking about attempts to police the thread, they will be insulted. While this is partially the PvPers' faults for being so volatile, it's also the intruders' faults for feeling a need to insert their opinion where it's not welcome.

So there are personal insults and personal insults. Some contribute to the spirit of the forum arguments. Some only come about because of personality clashes that could easily be avoided if the thread was declared truly no-holds-barred and it was accepted that non-PvPers posted there at their own risk. And some, of course, are actually completely uncalled for and should be moderated, but those, I think, are less common than most people think.

... =/= personal insult.

 

[Ovrkill]

ovrkill, id really recommmend you try and work it so you can relax the 'personal insults' rule before placing the pvp thread back. the personal insults are as much a part of forum pvp as precasting is part of actual pvp. the language filter is there for a good reason, let it do its job, and anyone bypassing that gets banned, while anyone posting actual personal info also gets banned. its the simplest, most effective solution.

yes i agree with you on this point, but there is the issue with a personal insult where everyone has a chuckle and carries on, and the personal insult which goes too far and causes all sorts of grief, and that is the issue.

 

[iddqd]

calling someone (for example) 'a fat housey and a dole-bludging bad parent' is materially no different to calling someone 'a house-hiding pot chugger' - except that the 'house-hiding pot chugger' insult isnt based purely in idle speculation. anyone rising to the former and allowing it to be an insult is doing it to themselves, by allowing some boorish, aggressive person bait them into a response.

the problem here lays entirely with the person who allows someone who doesnt knwo them and will never meet to somehow insult them. if some people are unable to make this distinction, fine, i understand, but the easiest solution is for them to be warned from the beginning that this situation is a very real possibility if they join this thread and then LEAVE IT AT THAT.

if you cant handle some possibly accurate guesswork and some nasty, meanspirited commentary then stay the hell out. youll be much happier.

it is not up to the moderators to decide what is insulting and what is not - ANYTHING can be an insult. all they can realistically do is to provide a clear, simple (as simple as realistically possible) line in the sand and leave it up to us. it really is as simple as that.

 

[Ovrkill]

Personal Insults:

"You are a fat housewife" = personal insult.

"You house-hide and chug pots even if you outnumber us seven to one" = personal insult.

"You can't play a mage" = personal insult.

"You smell like cabbage" = personal insult.

"You were so cowardly that you ran from siyeng0's roleplay character even though he was completely naked and unarmed and then came back and killed him with a greater dragon*" = personal insult.

*True story.


Here is the problem. "Personal insults" is a very vague term. It is impossible to criticise someone else's performance in PvP without insulting them; otherwise the thread would degenerate into mindless back-patting constructive "Well, first off, I really admire your clever use of pots, but could you maybe just consider relying a little less heavily on your speed-hacking tool? It's just my personal opinion, I'm not saying that you have to give up the tool if you don't feel ready..." foolery, which would be an absurdist masterpiece but no fun for anybody.

Forum PvP is an important part of the gameplay, I think. It's been repeatedly spelt out that the majority of people who are cussed out in the PvP threads don't mind the abuse; otherwise, they would not keep coming back. What you don't seem to realise is that the really hurtful insults are only in response to provocation. If someone who doesn't know what they're talking about attempts to police the thread, they will be insulted. While this is partially the PvPers' faults for being so volatile, it's also the intruders' faults for feeling a need to insert their opinion where it's not welcome.

So there are personal insults and personal insults. Some contribute to the spirit of the forum arguments. Some only come about because of personality clashes that could easily be avoided if the thread was declared truly no-holds-barred and it was accepted that non-PvPers posted there at their own risk. And some, of course, are actually completely uncalled for and should be moderated, but those, I think, are less common than most people think.

... =/= personal insult.

you missed the point about a private forum and a public forum, having a thread like that is not possible on stratics.

im sure many of you would have seen the lighter insults i have let pass because they were a part of the pvp hysteria and you all enjoyed each others slander, its the ones that go to far and then cry foul when they are beaten for taking personal insults too far.

Each time i have drawn that line, people just cant help themselves but to cross it and push the boundaries.

and its not trammies doing all the complaining... its an equal split down the middle.

the only way around this, for the foreseeable future anyway. is that if the PVP thread is reopened, the rules will remain in place, it would not be a no holds bared thread, because it is in the public face (like it or not, its a fact and you cant get around it, kids can view this forum as a guest... think about that for a few minutes before you throw a tanty), you guys are going to have to police yourselves, and that does mean reporting what you KNOW is wrong.

 

[Clog|Mordain]

the only way around this, for the foreseeable future anyway. is that if the PVP thread is reopened, the rules will remain in place, it would not be a no holds bared thread, because it is in the public face (like it or not, its a fact and you cant get around it, kids can view this forum as a guest... think about that for a few minutes before you throw a tanty), you guys are going to have to police yourselves, and that does mean reporting what you KNOW is wrong.

Does taht mean you will reopen the thread today?

 

[dum3886]

Ovrkill i think u should just be a bit more flexible. What u did isn't wrong as you are just following the rules but in doing so you are ignoring why the board is even in existance for. Try look at it from a view of... "your actions are a means to an end".

 

[Ovrkill]

Does taht mean you will reopen the thread today?

i will think about it tonight