Merry Christmas!

[Pacem]

YAY Christmas! Now wheres my stuff???

LOOT! LOOT!

 

[Sir Kelek]

LOOT! LOOT!

GIMMIE GIMMIE!!

 

[Lord Nabin]

GIMMIE GIMMIE!!

You been naughty or Nice? Get shoveling that snow !!!

 

[Kirthag]

Ok ok *puts hands up* I admit I was probably too broad in my scope there, but the Christmas celebrated in the USA is definately the result of and caused by Jesus. There is no doubt there.

*ahem*

Not to grief, but to educate...


The Native Americans of North and South America did indeed celebrate at this time of year the Solstice (as well as the Equinox in the spring)... with feasting and gifting as a way of marking the changing of the seasons, appreciation to their ancestors, and in celebration of various sun dieties. This was way before the coming of the "white man". Even the Eskimo and far-norther tribes of the First Nation would celebrate the Solstice with song to mark the shortest day of the year and to rejoice in the return of the sun to their frozen lands.






And here's an interesting tidbit that many really don't know:

In Colonial America, the Puritans of New England shared radical Protestant disapproval of Christmas. Celebration was outlawed in Boston from 1659 to 1681. The ban by the Pilgrims was revoked in 1681 by English governor Sir Edmund Andros, however it wasn't until the mid 1800's that celebrating Christmas became fashionable in the Boston region.[70] At the same time, Christian residents of Virginia and New York observed the holiday freely. Pennsylvania German Settlers, pre-eminently the Moravian settlers of Bethlehem, Nazareth and Lititz in Pennsylvania and the Wachovia Settlements in North Carolina, were enthusiastic celebrators of Christmas. The Moravians in Bethlehem had the first Christmas trees in America as well as the first Nativity Scenes.[71] Christmas fell out of favor in the United States after the American Revolution, when it was considered an English custom.[72] George Washington attacked Hessian mercenaries on Christmas during the Battle of Trenton in 1777. (Christmas being much more popular in Germany than in America at this time.)

It wasn't until the mid 1800's that Christmas as it is today was widely accepted and celebrated - and that curtesy of Charles Dickens...

By the 1820s, sectarian tension had eased in Britain and writers, including William Winstanly, began to worry that Christmas was dying out. These writers imagined Tudor Christmas as a time of heartfelt celebration, and efforts were made to revive the holiday. In 1843, Charles Dickens wrote the novel A Christmas Carol, that helped revive the 'spirit' of Christmas and seasonal merriment.[73][74] Its instant popularity played a major role in portraying Christmas as a holiday emphasizing family, goodwill, and compassion.[75] The mid-Victorian revival of the holiday spearheaded by A Christmas Carol, historian Ronald Hutton argues that Dickens sought to construct Christmas as a family-centered festival of generosity, in contrast to the community-based and church-centered observations, the observance of which had dwindled during the late eighteenth and early nineteenth centuries.[76] Superimposing his secular vision of the holiday, Dickens influenced many aspects of Christmas that are celebrated today in Western culture, such as family gatherings, seasonal food and drink, dancing, games, and a festive generosity of spirit.[77]

bolded portion for emphasis

More can be read about the history of Christmas here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christmas

And the references are linked there.


It is worthy to note that in the days of Christ, there was no celebration of birthdays as it was ... then ... considered to be a pagan act to his culture. The Hebrews celebrated a persons death, and as such that is why there is so much written about Christ (the man) at his death, and not so very much about his birth and youth. For the Hebrew did not consider a child to be of much worth, which is why at the time most children stayed with their mothers. It isn't until Jesus is in his early teens that the bible speaks of him as being in the temple... 12 if I remember right. Back then, 13 or 14 years of age was manhood....





I'm not bashing you hun... just need to sort through the dogma and know the reality. I respect you for your diligence, and wish you would perhaps rephrase your statements to something not so... finite.




Whatever the belief, whatever the case... this time period... the 25th day of December... Solstice.... deep winter...... has been since pre-history a celebration of renewal as the world moves out of one phase into another.

 

[Cadderly]

Merry christmas everybody

 

[Pacem]

**Rephrases**

So in light of above, I once again wish everyone a MERRY CHRISTMAS, remembering the true reason for the CHRISTIAN season in the USA *chooses time frame, selects "the mid 1800's onward"* (celebrated by Christian and non alike), which is Jesus the Christ.

*awaits response and corrections...*

 

[Pacem]

Plus, say what you will about Christmas, there is actually no command in the Bible whatsoever, given by Jesus or anyone else, that we should celebrate His birth at all. On the contrary, we are commanded to remember His death, which is what present day Christians view as Easter.

Christmas though, will from this point onward in the USA and many other places around the world in this present day and time-period, be considered a celebration of His birth.

So again... Merry Christmas.

 

[Budweiser KDL]

Merry Christmas Napa.(U too Thumper)...To the rest of you, If you don't like the show, change the channel.

Peace.

 

[Sir Kelek]

LOL seriously enough corrections on the whole christ/christmas/ holidays thing. just say MERRY CHRISTMAS! Oh and nabin, we have already recieved around 16 inches and are expecting up to 18 more by saturday morning.......I am tired of shoveling!!!

 

[Kirthag]

LOL!


Okay... okay! No more corrections!


I love Napa!


A toast to you all, friend and foe alike!
As we celebrate the season, with eggnog spiked
And snow falls in places with still smiling faces
Ho! Tis the season to lay aside all spite!


malama pono!


Les

Kirthag's player

 

[OxAO]

What cult are you in? The Maoist atheist cult?

I'm not a member of any cult or cult like following.

I personally just get by on life. Do the right thing, care for the wife and kids, go to work and pay the morgtage. Smile and wave, yield to oncoming traffic and use my signal. Nothing special but I don't feel the need to set up a spam bot to act as the messiah. Something about false prophets, sheep and fruit comes to mind.

All the atheist I have ever known are either want to be Maoist, Stalinist or leaning in the extreme statist direction.

 

[OxAO]

*ahem*

Not to grief, but to educate...


The Native Americans of North and South America did indeed celebrate at this time of year the Solstice (as well as the Equinox in the spring)... with feasting and gifting as a way of marking the changing of the seasons, appreciation to their ancestors, and in celebration of various sun dieties. This was way before the coming of the "white man". Even the Eskimo and far-norther tribes of the First Nation would celebrate the Solstice with song to mark the shortest day of the year and to rejoice in the return of the sun to their frozen lands.






And here's an interesting tidbit that many really don't know:



It wasn't until the mid 1800's that Christmas as it is today was widely accepted and celebrated - and that curtesy of Charles Dickens...



bolded portion for emphasis

More can be read about the history of Christmas here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christmas

And the references are linked there.


It is worthy to note that in the days of Christ, there was no celebration of birthdays as it was ... then ... considered to be a pagan act to his culture. The Hebrews celebrated a persons death, and as such that is why there is so much written about Christ (the man) at his death, and not so very much about his birth and youth. For the Hebrew did not consider a child to be of much worth, which is why at the time most children stayed with their mothers. It isn't until Jesus is in his early teens that the bible speaks of him as being in the temple... 12 if I remember right. Back then, 13 or 14 years of age was manhood....





I'm not bashing you hun... just need to sort through the dogma and know the reality. I respect you for your diligence, and wish you would perhaps rephrase your statements to something not so... finite.

Massachusetts also outlawed lawyers and witches in the early days.

New England and the South were settled by two different religions. The former were "reformers" such as the Pilgrims and Puritans. The South was settled by Anglicans (later called Episcopalians,) who celebrated Mass. These two religions were not allowed in each others colonies. It wasn’t until the "Religious Toleration Act" of Maryland, 1649 that allowed Catholics to live peacefully, but that didn’t last long. Many homes and churches were burned to the ground by the Puritans.

Washington’s army was from New England that crossed the Delaware.

To this day there are still Christians that do not celebrate Christmas or Easter.

Whatever the belief, whatever the case... this time period... the 25th day of December... Solstice.... deep winter...... has been since pre-history a celebration of renewal as the world moves out of one phase into another.

Just to clarify.
Most people call Christmas "Christmas" not Saturnalia as the Romans called December 25.
Julius Caesars Winter Solstice celebration is no longer in effect.

 

[five oclock]

LOL seriously enough corrections on the whole christ/christmas/ holidays thing. just say MERRY CHRISTMAS! Oh and nabin, we have already recieved around 16 inches and are expecting up to 18 more by saturday morning.......I am tired of shoveling!!!

LoL...Today it was 55 and windy...Im shoveling dirt tho

Merry Christmas to everyone out there...and Merry what ever you celerbrate or DON"T celebrate...Just love everyone..Just love some more than others

 

[Salya Sin]

Oh by golly have a holly, jolly Christmas... This Year!!!!

Merry Christmas Napa!!!

 

[Sir Kelek]

LoL...Today it was 55 and windy...Im shoveling dirt tho

Merry Christmas to everyone out there...and Merry what ever you celerbrate or DON"T celebrate...Just love everyone..Just love some more than others

20-24 Inches outside right now. On top of the 10 inches we already had! We are supposed to get 20 more inches by tomorrow nite still!! Its snowing and drifting real hard. 40 mph winds making 10 foot tall snow drifts in our neighborhood its insane... with wind chill its -15 degrees Its actually pretty fun hehe

 

[Ken of Napa]

Merry Christmas Napa!

Oh and Sir Kelek; We had 4-6 inches of snow last night. But by the time I put the trash out this morning, it had been shoveled

Gotta love living in a gated community, if it snows more than 2 inches they shovel to my front door In the Summer they mow and fertilize my lawn

 

[Sir Kelek]

LOL nice, I had a 4 foot snow drift against my steps when I got home 1 hour ago.... I expect a good 14 or so inches in my driveway by 8 am tomorrow on top of the 20+ we have... I would love to have my yard mowed to lol. Have an 2/3 acre just in the back yard hehe..

 

[Kirthag]

Getting about 2" of rain here this holiday eve... and is a chilly 67 degrees outside - gotta wear my jammies is chilly!

^.^

 

[Ken of Napa]

Sir Kelek

About 3 years ago we had 36" of snow in a 36 hour span. The entire city was shut down for 3 days. My wife and I couldn't even get out of our driveway untill two of my brothers came by and brought us a 4 wheel drive pickup. If I remember correctly, the office was closed for an entire week.


Kirthag

LoL, 67 ? How can you handle the cold? The high yesterday was 25, the high today (Christmas) is supposed to be 30-35. I remember the rain when we visited Hawaii, the locals called it "Liquid Sunshine". I remember it as a very fine, gental mist, very pleasant!

 

[Sir Kelek]

Welp Ken we now have over 36 inches of snow, and there is a 6 foot snow drift up against my front door... I really dont wanna move all this snow. Anyone wanna move a few tons of snow for um... lets say 50k GP? lol

 

[Thumper from]

Merry Christmas everyone or Happy Holidays to all (yes u 2 budwiser heheh)

 

[Kirthag]

Sir Kelek

Kirthag

LoL, 67 ? How can you handle the cold? The high yesterday was 25, the high today (Christmas) is supposed to be 30-35. I remember the rain when we visited Hawaii, the locals called it "Liquid Sunshine". I remember it as a very fine, gental mist, very pleasant!

It was actual rain last night... the dawn brought the "liquid sunshine" with it and a gentle northerly breeze which is keeping it in the low to mid 70's up here in the mountains... sweater weather. ^.^

Happy yule everyone! Here's to another UO xmas! *toasts with spiked eggnog*

 

[sir TEDLEY]

merry xmas to you all and may god be with us always

 

[altarego]

All the atheist I have ever known are either want to be Maoist, Stalinist or leaning in the extreme statist direction.

Or, we could simply be rational folks who enjoy the beauty that nature presents to us without the need for some silly story about a sadomasochistic messiah figure to make sense of it all.

Anyone who spends enough time learning how the universe works doesn't need a religion to experience awe due to the complexity of existence.

Nor do they necessarily align themselves with a particular political view. Science isn't political...the interpretation of it is.

 

[five oclock]

GOD I love this game

Hope everyone had a great Christmas..Now bring on the New Year!! WOOOT...

 

[Kirthag]

Or, we could simply be rational folks who enjoy the beauty that nature presents to us without the need for some silly story about a sadomasochistic messiah figure to make sense of it all.

Anyone who spends enough time learning how the universe works doesn't need a religion to experience awe due to the complexity of existence.

Nor do they necessarily align themselves with a particular political view. Science isn't political...the interpretation of it is.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ what he said!

 

[OxAO]

All the atheist I have ever known are either want to be Maoist, Stalinist or leaning in the extreme statist direction.

Or, we could simply be rational folks who enjoy the beauty that nature presents to us without the need for some silly story about a sadomasochistic messiah figure to make sense of it all.


Nor do they necessarily align themselves with a particular political view. Science isn't political...the interpretation of it is.

no, a rational person that questions the faiths would say they don't know if there is a god (agnostic). An irrational person would say they know there is no god (atheist which are usually hard core statist.)

Anyone who spends enough time learning how the universe works doesn't need a religion to experience awe due to the complexity of existence.

oh
so tell me what matter was combined to create the big bang which is the bases of the atheist view of the universe and were did it come from?

A. is there a science that states nothing combined with nothing creates a big bang?

B. From another dimension which is the string theory or some other theory that will come up someday. Which a theory means we don't know.

C. some creator.

D. you don't know.

if your answer was B or D then you are an agnostic not an atheist.

If you believe science isn't political then you have a lot to learn about science. The scientific method is always open to falsification. The process of learning about science has always been political and always will be. It is more so today then ever with financing coming mostly from tax money.

 

[altarego]

All the atheist I have ever known are either want to be Maoist, Stalinist or leaning in the extreme statist direction.

Or, we could simply be rational folks who enjoy the beauty that nature presents to us without the need for some silly story about a sadomasochistic messiah figure to make sense of it all.


Nor do they necessarily align themselves with a particular political view. Science isn't political...the interpretation of it is.

no, a rational person that questions the faiths would say they don't know if there is a god (agnostic). An irrational person would say they know there is no god (atheist which are usually hard core statist.)

Anyone who spends enough time learning how the universe works doesn't need a religion to experience awe due to the complexity of existence.

oh
so tell me what matter was combined to create the big bang which is the bases of the atheist view of the universe and were did it come from?

A. is there a science that states nothing combined with nothing creates a big bang?

B. From another dimension which is the string theory or some other theory that will come up someday. Which a theory means we don't know.

C. some creator.

D. you don't know.

if your answer was B or D then you are an agnostic not an atheist.

If you believe science isn't political then you have a lot to learn about science. The scientific method is always open to falsification. The process of learning about science has always been political and always will be. It is more so today then ever with financing coming mostly from tax money.

I'm pretty sure this is starting to slip away from the OP's intended message, so I won't continue to derail the topic. You'r free to bring it up in another thread, if you like. However, I will address one issue that you have wrong:

Agnosticism isn't defined by ignorance. In other words, it has nothing to do with not knowing if a higher power exists or not. Agnosticism is defined by the concept that a higher power simply is not "knowable", regardless of its existence. In effect, it's a cop out - a way to sidestep the argument.

Likewise, atheism isn't a rejection of a "God". Instead, it's an affirmation that there are plenty of wonderful observations and experiences that we can have in this beautiful universe - and that those experiences don't require that we make up a story to pretend we know how they originate.

Christmas is a wonderful social holiday. It allows us to find an excuse to come together as a family and really take a step back in the cool midnight air and celebrate each other for who we are as humans. You don't need any more excuse than that...certainly not a belief in some silly Christ fable. Enjoy it for what it is, not what you wish it could be.

If you want answers to your other questions, make a new thread.

 

[OxAO]

I'm pretty sure this is starting to slip away from the OP's intended message, so I won't continue to derail the topic. You'r free to bring it up in another thread, if you like. However, I will address one issue that you have wrong:

Agnosticism isn't defined by ignorance. In other words, it has nothing to do with not knowing if a higher power exists or not. Agnosticism is defined by the concept that a higher power simply is not "knowable", regardless of its existence. In effect, it's a cop out - a way to sidestep the argument.

Likewise, atheism isn't a rejection of a "God". Instead, it's an affirmation that there are plenty of wonderful observations and experiences that we can have in this beautiful universe - and that those experiences don't require that we make up a story to pretend we know how they originate.

Christmas is a wonderful social holiday. It allows us to find an excuse to come together as a family and really take a step back in the cool midnight air and celebrate each other for who we are as humans. You don't need any more excuse than that...certainly not a belief in some silly Christ fable. Enjoy it for what it is, not what you wish it could be.

If you want answers to your other questions, make a new thread.

I agree with you on Agnosticism but not atheism. The dictionary makes it clear that it is a disbelief in any kind of god.
Agnosticism whatever created the universe is not knowable thus we have no idea.
I do not see how my definition of "don't know' is different.

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/atheism+



The thread was already hijacked in the second post which was incorrect about many things and needed correcting.

 

[Lord Nabin]

The thread was already hijacked in the second post which was incorrect about many things and needed correcting.

The Second post was Picus Complaining about the Packies??? Friends. Christmas was wonderful and yet over. All of you have made your points now lets get back to drinking some Ale..... Sunrise you in? See you at the Pub in Five!

Let me be the first to say "Happy New Year!! I for one am looking forward to it.!

Kirthag please fire up the fireworks!

 

[OxAO]

The Second post was Picus Complaining about the Packies??? Friends. Christmas was wonderful and yet over. All of you have made your points now lets get back to drinking some Ale..... Sunrise you in? See you at the Pub in Five!

Let me be the first to say "Happy New Year!! I for one am looking forward to it.!

Kirthag please fire up the fireworks!

No,
Pacem said Marry Christmas and picus basically said take a hike.

It was way past rude.

 

[Lord Nabin]

I agree with you on Agnosticism but not atheism. The dictionary makes it clear that it is a disbelief in any kind of god.
Agnosticism whatever created the universe is not knowable thus we have no idea.
I do not see how my definition of "don't know' is different.

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/atheism+



The thread was already hijacked in the second post which was incorrect about many things and needed correcting.

No,
Pacem said Marry Christmas and picus basically said take a hike.

It was way past rude.

Well Yes but I think We are all done now till next year. OK?

Picus was fine at #13 and out by #46. I think we all very much respect each others views and if we didn't have various views we would all be a weird kind of community.

Follow Sunrise to the Pub. He said he is putting everything on his Tab! Plus I hear a ton of new weapons were just dropped off in the chests. If you are sly enough you might even get a glimpse of "The Orchid"

 

[Kirthag]

IBTL!!!!

 

[five oclock]

Ok everyone..Lets head to the tavern and the first three rounds are on Nabin K? lets move on from this LoL. Time for a new year WOOT lets party like its 1699