mages, mages, and more mages

[Alex the Gray]

I see a lot of posts here about the hell-spawned and completely evil nefarious tamers.
Mages get good damage, no-penalty weapons (do necros or paladins or spell-weavers get these?)
faster casting and faster casting recovery.
Mages are a far more un-balanced template then tamers. Tamers tame cus they have slow connections, or lack time to power-game.
Mages get advantages that no other players get, yet I see no complaints about this template. Im curious as to why this is.

 

[Masumatek]

I have complaints about mages too. But let's start with what is most overpowered first...

 

[Nagash]

Is this a joke?

 

[Alex the Gray]

no- not a joke. I just see mages as also being over-powered, and yet I see no complaints against this template. I am currently training up mage skills because of the advantages that mages have. I am wondering why I see no one complaining about these.

 

[Dark_Schneider]

<blockquote><hr>

I see a lot of posts here about the hell-spawned and completely evil nefarious tamers.
Mages get good damage, no-penalty weapons (do necros or paladins or spell-weavers get these?)
faster casting and faster casting recovery.
Mages are a far more un-balanced template then tamers. Tamers tame cus they have slow connections, or lack time to power-game.
Mages get advantages that no other players get, yet I see no complaints about this template. Im curious as to why this is.

[/ QUOTE ]

you're a fool. sorry

 

[Dark_Schneider]

Mages spend mana for all offensive / defensive actions.


Meleers can attack indefinately for NO MANA.

Seriously, tamers/ninjas stealth/ and uber bows are more to worry about.

Speedhacking mages = imbalanced, but they're cheating.

This thread is a joke.

 

[Alex the Gray]

what a coincidence! I thought the very same thing about you lol

 

[imported_mo'gluk]

well I have to agree with Alex in a certain sense there is no better investment tahn 100+ points in magery, is it overpowered well... it all depends on perspective....mages are the most item intesnive template which helps to balance them... a good mage gear is usually more particular and intensive than a melee set up.

100 points in magery will beat 100 points in an other skill as magery can stand alone as

1. weapon skill
2. offensive long range ability
3. crowd control and area effect
4. heal your self and others
5. rez others
6. summon and run beasts like a tamer

when youlook at it that way yes it is considerably overpowered to ther skills... but we are dealing with 720 skill points... if being a mage was easier and the most powerful everyone would be a mage.... and most are, which is just an indication of its base strength as a skill.

when youstart comparing whole templates theother builds will surpass the mage in certain areas, but most often magery is in combo with 90% of the most powerful templates.

1. tamer (tamer-mage by default)
2. necro mage
3. nox mage, SDI mage, parry mage
4. full parry-bushid0
5. DI bushido
6. chiv archer
7. stealth ninja/bushido dexxer
8. parry/macer/spellweaver
9. nox/necro/
10. stealth dismounter (hard to run solo)

IMO these are the most powerful templates, and the most pwerful of the bunch all include magery. Magery allows you to deal with any other template ably and effectively.

so do I think Magery is overpowered.. well I think taht because magery can be applied to almost any template ( almost as much as ninja used to be) it is a little more powerful than most skills.

and remember I am not talking mage templates as much as I am talking about magery as a skill. getting rid of mage weapons would go a long way to solve the arguments about magery and the uber templates.

 

[Guest]

<blockquote><hr>


100 points in magery will beat 100 points in an other skill as magery can stand alone as

1. weapon skill
2. offensive long range ability
3. crowd control and area effect
4. heal your self and others
5. rez others
6. summon and run beasts like a tamer


[/ QUOTE ]
I'm going to have to disagree with you on a few poitns here, Mo'. 100 points of magery jsut wont cut in in PvP.
1. Wont function as a weapon skill unless you're using a mage weapon, in which case you are sacrificing at least -20 magery (unless one is using a -0 mage weapon). OR unless the mage is using protection, in which case FC is sacrificed which can be devastating

2 &amp; 3 &amp; 4 - agree but at 100 magery you're only healing a few hitpoints which can be quickly taken away by a fast or hard hitting melee weapon.

5. You CAN res others with 100 magery after you fizzle 15 times and by then you're dead

6. Summoning a daemon or elemental will take quite a few attempts and can be quickly dispelled using magery or chiv as well as beat down fairly quickly by a pair of dexxers or a bushidoer.

imo, having 100 points of magery would make it hard to be effective in pvp. Try for 115 at least so you're not fizzling the 8th circle spells as much and healing more with heal and greater heal.

 

[pikon198]

wow my temp didnt even make it to the top 10

looks like i gotta get on the ass kicking tour.

 

[Guest]

one issue i kept pointing out on the pvp focus group was that magery is very strong compared to other skills. the diversity of spells you get is not comparable to any other casting ability like necromancy, spellweaving.

people argued it with the named ones being supportive skills or magery also requiring other skills. i think thats not true, necromancy is something you should be able to play on its own as well as magery. same with other comparable skills. also magery can be used as a supportive skill just investing 120 skillpoints, used as a supportive skill, both eval int and meditation arent required, however the ability you get from just those skillpoints isnt comparable to any other skill.

however my approach wasnt to make magery weaker or change it at all, my propose was to finally up the other skills a bit, there is no reason the other casting abilities only should have 6-20 spells. also i proposed that combinations should also give you a casting penalty as i believe hybrids should be somewhat limited, not only the combination of dexing and casting skills, but also different ways of casting itself.

 

[Calibretto]

<blockquote><hr>

I see a lot of posts here about the hell-spawned and completely evil nefarious tamers.
Mages get good damage, no-penalty weapons (do necros or paladins or spell-weavers get these?)
faster casting and faster casting recovery.
Mages are a far more un-balanced template then tamers. Tamers tame cus they have slow connections, or lack time to power-game.
Mages get advantages that no other players get, yet I see no complaints about this template. Im curious as to why this is.

[/ QUOTE ]



*laughs*


Go pvp with your new mage.

Then come back here and say how "overpowered" we are.

 

[Guest]

its not a very good way to rate a template by how well an individual can play it.


ps: send me another icq, i cant icq you and mo said he likes you :O

 

[imported_mo'gluk]

well i agree when in the grand scheme of PvP 100 points of magery is subpar.

but when comparing ANY other skill against it magery beats it hands down. lets get some toons together with only 100 skill (or 120) if ya like and then give them what ever equipment ya want.

and then use that 120 skill contest who do you think is going to win? i would love to try this just because I know when you rate magery by itself (not just within a template) it is the most powerful skill. anyone wanna bring another 120 skill against 120 magery, if so we will make some rules regarding its execution and operators will be assigned to participate.

 

[Guest]

by itself magery is the most power skill in the game. if you only ran 1 skill then yes magery is the most powerful you have healing curing and damage in 1 skill. only chivalry can say that

 

[imported_mo'gluk]

yes I and I will agree and disagree with alex (OP) because I do agree taht magery is the most powerful skill but I dont think pure mages are the most powerful template I reserve that for tamer-mages and Necro-mages....

 

[Sir Ha-ward]

<blockquote><hr>

its not a very good way to rate a template by how well an individual can play it.


ps: send me another icq, i cant icq you and mo said he likes you :O

[/ QUOTE ]


I heard Mo likes me too, ill be sending you a link to open on icq

 

[Guest]

pure mages are almost soley support roles now, its tough for just a straight pure mage to take down alot of the templates. definately doable but not the most powerful by any means.

 

[imported_mo'gluk]

not very funni oomie....

 

[Dark_Schneider]

<blockquote><hr>

what a coincidence! I thought the very same thing about you lol

[/ QUOTE ]

thanks &lt;3

Btw, this is not a production shard, mages are not decked out in max LMC and max MR

If a mage is out of mana no offense or defense, a dexxer can shoot you with arrows or hit you with his sword for damage comparable to some mage spells for no mana indefinately.

Also, if you just have magery, you will only have Mind Blast to do damage because without eval int, nothing does any damage, I dont have eval, 115 mage, and my flamestrike hits people for about 8 damage, seriously, nerf me right away.

 

[Masumatek]

"Btw, this is not a production shard, mages are not decked out in max LMC and max MR"

Though they soon will be, just like everyone else will be decked out in everything else. Well not everyone. Only some people. Due to this bs cursed arty and the upcoming runic changes. PvP is about to go way down hill and become far more item-based. Crafting is about to go way down hill too.

 

[Alex the Gray]

lol- you may be right sir. I am learning my magery, and compared to non-ranged fighting Im used to, seems quite different. With the addition of a -0 mage weapon- something I dont see offered to any of the other magic users, the variety of spells, the items offered, it seems that they are much better off than any other magic-users offered.
My insinuation that they are over-powered is a facetious sarcasm. I do wonder why the other magic users arent allowed some of the boons and perks that mages are. Being new to the magic arena I did want to see some opinions and thoughts- and so I have. Nothing like stepping on toes to get a response!

 

[imported_mo'gluk]

agreed expect to see my "prod" type templates running around siege at least from ythe small percentage of people who are brave enough to run it

 

[Alex the Gray]

I started on GL- but its been so long since Ive been there, I cant even recall all my characters names. It is the differences between siege and gl that brought me here and wouldn't allow me to go back. Very sad if that is where its going.

Cant recall who mentioned it, but yes, mage does seem to be assisted by items to a high degree. If and when I run my mage skills it will be with high med, eval, and yes necro with it. No inscription tho, at least not for a while. I couldnt stomach training another skill for a while after polisheg off eval, magery, necro and ss.

 

[pikon198]

it wont be so bad with all these cursed artis around cause hey no insurance, so it just means better loot. Me an me pirates will be waiting in dark allies and shady places for unsuspecting passerbys, Harhar! Can't wait to start pillaging us some nice cursed arties, Hoorah!


PS. Man i hate necro mages.... But if you can't beat em join em i say. Alex does this mean I'll be seeing you on the field pvping ?

 

[Lord_Puffy]

spellweaving?

sorry forgot chivalry

 

[Sir Ha-ward]

<blockquote><hr>

Though they soon will be, just like everyone else will be decked out in everything else. Well not everyone. Only some people. Due to this bs cursed arty and the upcoming runic changes. PvP is about to go way down hill and become far more item-based. Crafting is about to go way down hill too.


[/ QUOTE ]


Not true , for awhile alot of folks will be decked out in the cursed artys, then when they tire of losing it, KOC will be the only group using a large number of them, as we die off and get looted people will start to horde the cursed artys and lock them down on their front steps, just look at how verum has done on his doorsteps for example

 

[Alex the Gray]

well, I tried with ninja fencer, but with dial up if I happened to be winning they could always outrun me and escape lol. Mo has been telling me for a while to go archery or mage, and Im going to try necro/mage, and see how that works.
Youll see me at least giving it another try.

 

[Dark_Schneider]

<blockquote><hr>


and please, you cant be serious comparing magery to any other skill and tell me its weak. not a single skill gives you as much diversity and power. you can travel, ress, cure, heal, teleport, area effects, summons, make yourself invisible, dispell creatures and fields, have offensive curses and defensive buffs, poison and do damage. and the probably is even more you can do. please point me to a single skill that can only do 3 of the above things (the only one that can is chivalry, it can cure, heal and to an extend dispell creatures and ress). so please, stop telling that you only have mindblast to do damage, even a dexer that wants to do some serious damage needs anatomy and tactics and on top of that they still need another skill just to heal themself.

[/ QUOTE ]

so having utility spells makes it imbalanced?

btw i never said it was weak, im simply amazed someone thinks this is an issue that needs balancing, more than tamers and a lot of other nonsense


***edit*** To be honest I do not think magery should be changed, change other things not magery, if necromages are a problem, dont nerf the magery skill, fix it so THAT skill combo isn't too strong.

If anything, make it so magery necro chiv do not take regs / tithing like ninja/bush/spellweaving.

 

[Guest]

which is exactly what i proposed

(not with reagents etc, but with leaving magery and upping the other casting skills and making penalties for using combinations)


and no, not more than tamers, but still an issue that needs to be looked at.

 

[Masumatek]

Magery/necro should still cost regs. Chivalry and especially spellweaving should also cost regs, instead of allowing mages/necros to go reg-free.

 

[Dark_Schneider]

<blockquote><hr>

Magery/necro should still cost regs. Chivalry and especially spellweaving should also cost regs, instead of allowing mages/necros to go reg-free.

[/ QUOTE ]

i'd be fine with consistency either way, no free rides, or all free ride.

 

[imported_mo'gluk]

if that were the case I would expect to see some -15 necro weapons, just to make it consistent....

 

[Masumatek]

There shouldn't be -15 necro mods or -15 anything mods. The devs also get this wrong. The solution is NOT to add more. It is to take away. -mage mod weapons shouldn't exist.

 

[imported_mo'gluk]

I completely agree Mas .. it was an attempt at sarcasm... hehe... forgot to turn on my sarcasm blinker next time

 

[uomlplayer]

if that were the case I would expect to see some -15 necro weapons, just to make it consistent....
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
why would necros need - 15 necro weps when necro can weild any kind of wep without the spell channeling mod and a mage need the sc mod? if you want the - 15 necro wep then make it so when you cast necro or chiv spells without the sc mod wep would drop in pack like mages when they cast witout that sc mod.....

 

[Dark_Schneider]

<blockquote><hr>

if that were the case I would expect to see some -15 necro weapons, just to make it consistent....
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
why would necros need - 15 necro weps when necro can weild any kind of wep without the spell channeling mod and a mage need the sc mod? if you want the - 15 necro wep then make it so when you cast necro or chiv spells without the sc mod wep would drop in pack like mages when they cast witout that sc mod.....

[/ QUOTE ]

mage weapons with -xx magery and not because of spell channeling. that is because it gives you defense / offense equiv to your magery after the penalty with the weapon.

and id be more for adding regs to spell weavers and giving a cost like tithe to bush and ninja than removing regs but i just can't see that kind of thing getting support

 

[uomlplayer]

i understand the deffence part for magery but thats the same arguement as me saying necros and chiv dexters dont need the sc mod to cast spells with wep in hand.....

 

[Guest]

What the hell is a Borg Masu... lol.
Mages are not over powered from what I remember... "All kill = No skill"
Atleast mages are pushing more then speach macros (not sure of everythings that's changed though, lol... it's been awhile)
Lots of love...

 

[imported_mo'gluk]

GONDOR!!!!!!

 

[Masumatek]

GONDORRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRr

How goes it?!?!

Come back mate! I'll PM you with my new icq number!

 

[imported_mo'gluk]

yeah but much of that stems form the fact the Mage weapons started coming a round before necro did

 

[uomlplayer]

i have no problem removing the mage wep mod if necros/chiv/bush/spellweave /and what other templates that casts spells need sc mod on wep before they can cast with wep in hand also fair is fair.....

 

[Masumatek]

Necros and paladins warriors need a weapon. They can't really kill much without it.....Does a mage need a weapon? Nope.

 

[uomlplayer]

necros for sure can kill without a weapon ,i guess chiv dexters cant but weave can also kill without a weapon.

 

[Masumatek]

Yes but not nearly as well as with a weapon.....You can compete on a wrestle mage many times better than a wrestle necro, spellweaver (I think...though I don't know much about spellweaving), or paladin. And, let's not forget, mages have another option: anatomy for evasion. The -mage weapon mod is overpowered no matter how you try to justify it man. It needs to be removed from the game.

 

[pikon198]

<blockquote><hr>

my reasoning for this is this that magerya nd necro have become surprisingly similar in UO approach to them. both cost mana, both require regs, both are affected by FC/FCR, Both have a supplement skill to determine damage of spells. I was saying we should have -15 or so necro weapons as I don't believe it ever should have happened with magery but if we are going to do it with magery we might as well do it with necro too as they are approached almost Identically by the Dev team. might even make for some interesting template combinations

[/ QUOTE ]

One thing you overlooked matey, is that when the devs created Necromancy with intent for the player to build a more necro warrior based template. i mean even when yo start a newbie necro they come with weapon in hand!! necro and melee skill works so well together, thats why they made it so necromancy doesnt require SC or -15 things... Magery on the otherhand was built more to well serve alone as a caster class. Mages werent meant to hold weapons, they were meant to hold books! Hence the penelty on weapons and requirement for SC and - 25 magery weps.

 

[uomlplayer]

Yes but not nearly as well as with a weapon
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
exactly you can say same for mages its just that much better with a wepon why should necros be able to cast spells without sc mod? you want to be more effective as necro with wep? use a wep with sc mod not a wep without sc and all 5 mods maxed out at 100% intensity...

 

[Guest]

In order for there to be a sc mod on necro weapons, there needs to be many more reliable (weapon independant) spells.
When necros' get that, then we'll talk.

Otherwise a necro could go "necro/mage" (a very good template last I remember... 2 years ago) then you wouldn't really even need a weapon (unless you count an sc mod staff)...

 

[uomlplayer]

what do you mean by more weapon independant spells?