If they gave reds access to Trammel

[galefan2004]

So riddle me this, why shouldn't reds be penalized for ruining the game for others? Suppose you want a cookie every time you kill someone less skilled than you, or maybe a cake when you team up and gank someone.

Its not even really about skill. Thanks to the developers making the PvM aspect of champion spawns harder you are not relugated to using a PvM character at champion spawns. Very few characters geared and templated for PvM stand a real chance against someone geared and templated for PvP. I itemize for sdi when I do champion spawns, and that leaves me relatively open to PvPers.

 

[Draxous]

Do you know what power scrolls and stat scrolls are? Seriously. Don't say that you can buy them from those that go to Felucca or something stupid like that or I will argue that no one with a red on their account should have access to the gauntlet, DH, or Travesty.

Here's the difference.

A blue can go to Felucca and try to get powerscrolls.

A red can not go to Trammel.


Just because you're not good enough or don't feel like it doesn't mean that the option isn't available to you. You want to sit there and argue with me that no one with a red on their account should have access to 7/9ths of Ultima Online because you can't get a power scroll how you specifically want to.


No, just no your post is so damn ludicrous it's borderline stupid. Players who have red characters bought mondains legacy just like you did and you're telling me they shouldn't be able to enjoy it on their character of choice because you choose to be irrational towards their playstyle?

Get over yourself, you're nobody special.


Good night.

 

[EnigmaMaitreya]

Why? Just allowing reds to travel outside of fel does not mean that reds cn come to trammel and start killing people the trammel rules still apply the only difference is that reds are no longer limited to the felucca facet only.

I really think reds should be allowed in tram at least then I could own a house in tram and not have to log my red at an inn every time. Not to mention if you only have single account and you have a red on that account you need a house in fel or else the only thing you can access is your bank for storage and that sucks.

But this troll thread is NOT about being able to PvP in Tram/Reds scaming in Tram.

It is about NO one is around to impress in Fel when some loser wants to fight his / her other account to make themselves look BAD A$$. Then Talk like a BAD A$$.

So the net results would be lets Con the Trams into being flaged in Tram so we can kill them. Lets sit at the bank and do 24/7/52 Murdering and Trash Talking and verbally abuse the Tram people in their house (House = Trammel). That is all this is ever about when the smoke and white noise are removed.

Wenchy is right might just as well pull the plug on Fel if the Dev Team fell for this con.

As for the Push through, Sure go right ahead and give the Loser Reds wanting to Kill Trams in their house, the ability to. You do know why it never went live right? Because these same losers simply block the Tram person and let the NPC kill them. Just creative PKing.

 

[galefan2004]

That player pays the same monthly subscription fee that you do. He/She should be allowed to enjoy this game the way he/she feels he/she damn well pleases.

Wrong. You see, when I pay a monthly fee, I realise that personally attempting to ruin someone else's game play is a good way for me to get banned. However, in Felucca, you can personally ruin people's game play as much as you want and be rewarded for it in most cases. The same player doesn't want to have to deal with having blue crafters in Felucca because they will probably be killed but most likely goes around killing blue crafters.

By your logic because I pay taxes I should be able to go on a shooting spree with no pentalty. We don't get the right to play however we chose simply because we pay to play. We get to accept the rules then chose rather we wish to pay to play or not.

You aint nobody more or less special and **** you for implying that you should be.

I never said I was more than less special. I'll tell you what though. When I desire to have a red then I live in Felucca. I bring my crafters to Felucca. I don't kill blues in Felucca then not want to live in Felucca because my blues will most likely get killed. Its all or nothing. You can't have it both ways, and I have never attempted to have it both ways. I really think we should go back to the old days when reds were never allowed in guard zones and the only place they could bank was Bucc's Den and if they wanted to log out they had to have camping skill. That would be a step in the right direction. To hear someone whining because they have to log out at the inn is a joke.

Your posts are the pure definition of hypocrisies.

Please make a reference to a claim that actually backs up that statement. When I used it to refer to the other poster it was because he wanted to kill blues in Felucca with no repricusions but he didn't want to bring his blues to Felucca to get killed so he lives in Trammel. That is just purely dripping with stupidity. I bring all of my characters to Felucca whenever I wish and take the consequences and risks that come along with doing so.

 

[Maplestone]

A blue can go to Felucca and try to get powerscrolls.

A red can not go to Trammel.

Your logic is backwards.

If you want to go to Tram, that means you're ok with non-PvP play. You have the option of just creating another character who isn't red.

If you don't want to ever play the Tram ruleset but want the stuff, you have option of Siege.

If you don't want to play the Fel ruleset, you are locked out of powerscroll-hunting forever. You can't just make another character or go to a different shard.

Note: this is NOT a request for Tram-scrolls. I just wanted to point out the logical fallacy in complaining that reds-players are hard-done-by because it focuses on the character, not the player

 

[galefan2004]

We'll keep the power scrolls in Felucca. You can choose to purchase them from other players/vendors or go get them yourself.

Yes because doing that has worked so great so far hasn't it. I mean, how often do you even see champion spawns being worked anymore? The zerg guilds are farming Despise like crazy while every other spawn sits empty. That seems like a great utilization of the champion spawn system doesn't it? Am i rite?

Then, we're going to make it so that reds can choose to go to Doom and farm arties, or to any of the peerless dungeons they don't have access to or any of the quests they can't partake in.

Get over it dude. It will never happen. The Trammelites are never going to let reds into Trammel and seeing they make up 80-90% of the player base the developer's aren't going to go against them. Personally, I would love to see it made so that you can't even bring your blues to Trammel if you have a red, but I don't actually expect that to happen.

But now, you're going to cry about how BlacK RaiN is telling you how we're all players paying the same subscription fee and you are nobody special.

I never said I was special. What I said was things aren't going to change just because you want them to. Things will stay the way they are. The majority of the posters in this thread have said that things will stay the way they are. The only person trying to get things to change because YOU WANT THEM TO is you...so who thinks they are special? Umm.... *looks in your direction*

So carry on with the tears

You are confusing me with you again. You made a post crying that reds should be allowed in Trammel and then you wouldn't take no for an answer. Your tears only got louder as poster after posters said that it should never happen the way you want. You aren't even bothering to listen to any of the other posters (or maybe you can't hear them through your tears) but now you are starting the personal insults because you haven't been able to get your own way.

 

[galefan2004]

Just because you're not good enough or don't feel like it doesn't mean that the option isn't available to you. You want to sit there and argue with me that no one with a red on their account should have access to 7/9ths of Ultima Online because you can't get a power scroll how you specifically want to.

You are assuming I can't go get powerscrolls whenever I want, and that I don't. That would be an incorrect assumption. I get powerscrolls whenever I feel like getting some friends together and going to get them. Its really not that difficult.

I'm not arguing with you at all. I'm simply stating the way things are and the way they are going to stay. You are the one trying to argue with EA on a dead issue. You aren't the first poster to ever say reds should be allowed in Felucca. You probably aren't even the 100th player to say it. I've been posting on these boards since 2000 and I see 1 post like this about every 2-3 months. Every single one of them is come back to hard from a community that would like to break the ToS of Stratics and tell you what they really think but want to avoid bans.

Simply put...when you pay that $12.95 a month you do get the same choices that EVERYONE ELSE MADE. You get to CHOOSE rather you stay blue or go red. You get to CHOOSE rather you play in Felucca or stay in Trammel. Hell you even get to CHOOSE to pay that $12.95 a month. Its all about choices. Choices have consequences though, so when you CHOSE to go about killing whoever you felt like killing anytime you felt like killing them then you CHOSE to remain in Felucca. That $12.95 you choose to pay each month goes to pay for that choice now. If you don't like it then don't pay that $12.95. On the same token I get to CHOOSE when I take my miner or ljack to Felucca wearing gear they have no way of surviving an attack in and with a template they would never survive with anyways, and if I die I don't come here to spam the boards with "WAH! REDS SHOULDN'T BE ALLOWED TO KILL MINERS/LJACKS CAUSE THEY PAY $12.95 A MONTH!"

No, just no your post is so damn ludicrous it's borderline stupid. Players who have red characters bought mondains legacy just like you did and you're telling me they shouldn't be able to enjoy it on their character of choice because you choose to be irrational towards their playstyle?

Funny but I don't remember me forcing them to buy it. They chose to buy it. They chose to become red. They realised the consequences of those actions. If they can't accept the consquences then they really shouldn't have ever gone red. Your posts make no sense because you have no idea what personal choice and personal responisibility means and think just because you pay your money each month you should be able to do whatever you want with no repricusions. I pay my money to enter a theater but if I start disrupting other people that paid the same ammount of money to see that movie you can pretty much guarantee I'm going to get throw out of that theatre. You had your choice to leave other players alone and enjoy all that Trammel has to offer. You CHOSE not to do that and now you get to live with the consequences. So, stop crying about it because those crys have fallen on deaf ears for 10 years and they will continue to do so as long as UO exists.

Get over yourself, you're nobody special.

If I wanted to sink to your level I could redirect this at you.

 

[Ash]

Your arguments make no sense. And you people sound really psychotic holding such angst against a player base that doesn't even affect your playstyle.

Reds don't affect others?? What are you smoking? How did they become Red, not return a library book in time? Get a clue, Reds are red because they killed Blues, hence they directly affect other peoples play. I think that has to be the most ludicrous comment I have heard in quite a while.

A blue can go to Felucca and try to get powerscrolls.

I know it has been pointed out to you repeatedly but you missing the point that a player with a red char CAN also have a blue and thus that char has access.

Here's the deal.

We'll keep the power scrolls in Felucca. You can choose to purchase them from other players/vendors or go get them yourself.

Then, we're going to make it so that reds can choose to go to Doom and farm arties, or to any of the peerless dungeons they don't have access to or any of the quests they can't partake in.

Nope, wrong again, the deal is reds choose to be reds.

 

[FrejaSP]

What UO players and possibly EA needs to figure out is that no game HAS EVER BEEN successful when you could lose items. In games where you absolutely can not lose items you have very little risk. The majority of players get enough of a sense of risk in their real lives, and when they enter the game they don't want to feel a real sense of risk. There is a reason no other game has ever allowed items to drop to a corpse since UO, and there is a reason why those games for the most party were 10-20x (or more) as successful as UO.

Other games are level games, you will have to get new items when you grow in levels.

In UO, the crafters will be out of business if you can't lose your items.
AoS made it harder to replace your items and we got item insurance. It was very bad for UO and the crafters.

We are moving the right way, with changes to runic and more drops of artifacts and it's time to start remove item insurance.

The facts, that we can lose items in UO is not killing UO, items just need to be easier to replace.

Before AoS, my shop had customers ordering 20 gm weapon of same kind and 10 suit of gm armor.

Now I can't make 20 weapon and 10 suit to a customer because of the mods will make most of the weapon useless for the customer that made the order.

Wooden items are a better than leather and metal. If I make a bloodwood suit, I know each item will get hitpoints mods but I still can't control mods from runic tools and runic tools are still to hard to get for me as I hate using hours for bods and in heartwood, I rather use my time in the wilderness gathering resources and in my shop dealing with my customers.

I really hope they will rewarp crafting and give the crafters more control over the mods they get.

UO do not need to be like other games!

 

[galefan2004]

Other games are level games, you will have to get new items when you grow in levels.

Yes because when you hit max level your point is completely negated? When you get a final template of gear then you will never lose it. Thats part of what makes those game so successful.

In UO, the crafters will be out of business if you can't lose your items.
AoS made it harder to replace your items and we got item insurance. It was very bad for UO and the crafters.

Crafters went out of business the day everyone had a 120 tailor and 120 smith and access to the same runics that other crafters had. What hurt crafters is that people made their own crafters and stopped buying off of other crafters not that people reached final template gear and never lost it again.

We are moving the right way, with changes to runic and more drops of artifacts and it's time to start remove item insurance.

Removing item insurance would be the STUPIDEST thing you could ever do to this game, and I'm willing to be the day after they made that change the subscripton numbers would drop by 1/2.

The facts, that we can lose items in UO is not killing UO, items just need to be easier to replace.

We don't lose items in PvP. The items don't sudenly disapear. The items simply change hands. If you want to make the arguement that when items drop to a corpse in PvP they should suddenly disapear then I could understand that. Then you could turn insurance off in Felucca and all the players on production shards can pvp in the same crap you wear on Siege.

Before AoS, my shop had customers ordering 20 gm weapon of same kind and 10 suit of gm armor.

Before AoS this game had 250k players. Now it most likely has less than 100k. Before AoS new players still came to UO. Now you are lucky to see one new player. You are making a spurlious coordination arguement. You are simply looking at the fact that the items are not being lost and trying to compare that to the fact that people aren't buying anymore. You aren't considering any other mitigating circumstances such as everyone has their own crafters and the game is losing more population daily than it is gaining.

Now I can't make 20 weapon and 10 suit to a customer because of the mods will make most of the weapon useless for the customer that made the order.

That is an issue with item properties. I 100% agree item properties need looked at, but that has nothing to do with losing items.

Wooden items are a better than leather and metal. If I make a bloodwood suit, I know each item will get hitpoints mods but I still can't control mods from runic tools and runic tools are still to hard to get for me as I hate using hours for bods and in heartwood, I rather use my time in the wilderness gathering resources and in my shop dealing with my customers.

Yes and that is a problem with the magical item property crafting system. It is an oversight by the developers at the time that ML was designed. They should have never introduced the special properties on wood the way they did without stepping back to think that maybe just maybe the same should hapen for metal and leather goods. Again that has nothing to do with item loss, but I 100% agree it was shoddy design by the development team that was rushing out ML.

I really hope they will rewarp crafting and give the crafters more control over the mods they get.

I absolutely hope they do this as well. At the same time I would like a revamp of the BOD system to get rid of the useless stuff (dc/shadow runics, decorative crap, etc.) and give players with 120 tailoring/120 blacksmithy much better odds of getting bods that aren't junk (or at the very least if they have to be junk then make them just like 10-20 daggers or 10 of everything else).

UO do not need to be like other games!

Unfortunately that is incorrect. UO needs to mirror the best aspects of successful games as best as they can without losing the UO feel. Those games are successful because of those fresh ideas. If UO wants to stay boring old and stale then it should never try to learn from the ideas that other games had, but thankfully that is not the direction the developers are going.

 

[Stucky]

No, just no your post is so damn ludicrous it's borderline stupid. Players who have red characters bought mondains legacy just like you did and you're telling me they shouldn't be able to enjoy it on their character of choice because you choose to be irrational towards their playstyle?

At this point you have got to be here arguing for arguments sake.

 

[o2bavr6]

I really think we should go back to the old days when reds were never allowed in guard zones and the only place they could bank was Bucc's Den and if they wanted to log out they had to have camping skill. That would be a step in the right direction. To hear someone whining because they have to log out at the inn is a joke.

Wrong... only Dread Lords were not allowed in towns, any other Red was allowed in towns and were also protected by the town guards.

In fact in the old days you could go red from negative actions like attacking a pet. In fact I think Dastardly was the karma level that your character turned Red.

 

[lucitus]

i think felucca is big enough for good fights, iam playing mostly red, and i also think it is good how it is.

Why should Factions be in Trammel? First they should add more features for factioniers in Felucca.

The Craftingsystem is complete useless after AoS, because crafting items is completly random. A bless deed would be nice, that a blacksmith can craft an armor bless deed in faction color, this deed can be used to faction bless one armor part, the bless holds 3 real time weeks.

Another thing is the faction loss of skills, it should be reduced to 10 minutes i think this would be enough.

Also the faction horses should not have any rank requirements.

Another thing is that the time of 40h (ingame) is to high for count reduction, better is 8h (ingame). I think it plays no role a real red pk would have more than 100 counts, but a player who does only a mistake only have to wait 8h instead of 40h (afk macroing).

 

[Yalp]

Rain.. it's really tough to actually find any honest to god points in your posts. Mostly it's just a verbal bashing you try to hand out to peeps who put out counterpoints. So let me try to boil it down for you.


You CHOOSE to become red by your actions. There are consequences for this built into the game.

You could CHOOSE to lose your red status in order to come to Tramworld. There are consequences for this built into the game.

The choice is yours dude.. take responsibility for your choices and live with it.

 

[o2bavr6]

Rain.. it's really tough to actually find any honest to god points in your posts. Mostly it's just a verbal bashing you try to hand out to peeps who put out counterpoints. So let me try to boil it down for you.


You CHOOSE to become red by your actions. There are consequences for this built into the game.

You could CHOOSE to lose your red status in order to come to Tramworld. There are consequences for this built into the game.

The choice is yours dude.. take responsibility for your choices and live with it.

Not if all your character were red before the introduction of Tram

 

[Kral]

Not if all your character were red before the introduction of Tram

When Tram camne out, you only have 5 char slots, now you can have 7....

 

[Kral]

Wrong... only Dread Lords were not allowed in towns, any other Red was allowed in towns and were also protected by the town guards.

In fact in the old days you could go red from negative actions like attacking a pet. In fact I think Dastardly was the karma level that your character turned Red.

I used to take my very red Dread Lord Oden into town on Pac during the first year of UO..so I think it mayhave been all reds were allowed in towns. The shopkeeprs just raised their prices on me, and the guards gave me smack talk all the time...

 

[o2bavr6]

When Tram camne out, you only have 5 char slots, now you can have 7....

Damn... Good call LOL.

I still only have 5 chars though

 

[o2bavr6]

I used to take my very red Dread Lord Oden into town on Pac during the first year of UO..so I think it mayhave been all reds were allowed in towns. The shopkeeprs just raised their prices on me, and the guards gave me smack talk all the time...

Hmm not sure about that. In 1997 on Chessy I can recall for sure that Dread Lords were not allowed into town, but Evil Lords or lower were.

But I think they may have changed it a few times. Remember when we were know as Murderers instead?

There have been so many changes over the years its hard to keep track.

 

[FrejaSP]

Wrong... only Dread Lords were not allowed in towns, any other Red was allowed in towns and were also protected by the town guards.

In fact in the old days you could go red from negative actions like attacking a pet. In fact I think Dastardly was the karma level that your character turned Red.

Not all correct, both Dread and Evil lords was not allowed in towns.
Dastardly was not the level that turned, it was Dishonorable
If you attacked someone with higher karma / positive notoriety than your selv, you would lose karma/notoriety. It was very easy to be red, notoriety query was not activated as defalt and one wrong click on a blue player instead of a monster was enough to make you read.

The levels was as far I remember:
None
Dishonorable
Dastardly
Dark Lord/Lady
Evil Lord/Lady (no town)
Dread Lord/Lady (no town)

I can't remember the blue ones other than Great Lord/Lady

Think there also was Proper, Nobel Lord/Lady, can't remember them.

 

[FrejaSP]

I used to take my very red Dread Lord Oden into town on Pac during the first year of UO..so I think it mayhave been all reds were allowed in towns. The shopkeeprs just raised their prices on me, and the guards gave me smack talk all the time...

There was a time where they nerfed the Guards and you could bring your Dread Lord to town and even kill there and then run from the guards.
That did not last for long before it was removed again.

 

[Aboo]

Because you can only own one house per account, and he must already have a house in Tram.

No more confusion

Since blues can go to Felucca he/she should just move to Felucca. Makes sense to me.

 

[Aboo]

So in your mind allowing Reds in Tram, as long as they had to follow the current ruleset, is not ok with you?

You are correct it is NOT okay with me.

How would this affect your gameplay in anyway, other than when you looked at the character, instead of his color being blue it wold be red?

It's not a matter of how it would affect my gameplay, it's a matter of principal. If you are going to be red there should be consequences. One of those consequences is you are NOT allowed in Trammel. You know the old saying, "If you can't do the time, don't do the crime" comes to mind right now.

 

[FrejaSP]

You are correct it is NOT okay with me.

It's not a matter of how it would affect my gameplay, it's a matter of principal. If you are going to be red there should be consequences. One of those consequences is you are NOT allowed in Trammel. You know the old saying, "If you can't do the time, don't do the crime" comes to mind right now.

Keep in mind, the red did not get his color in Trammel so his color should not effect if he can go to Trammel or not.

Red is a Fel thing, so the punishment should be a Fel thing too.

 

[Lore Master]

i do not agree reds should stay in fel as long as they are red that is there punishment for being murderers no tram lol so if you want to come to tram stop murdering and turn blue.

 

[o2bavr6]

Not all correct, both Dread and Evil lords was not allowed in towns.
Dastardly was not the level that turned, it was Dishonorable
If you attacked someone with higher karma / positive notoriety than your selv, you would lose karma/notoriety. It was very easy to be red, notoriety query was not activated as defalt and one wrong click on a blue player instead of a monster was enough to make you read.

The levels was as far I remember:
None
Dishonorable
Dastardly
Dark Lord/Lady
Evil Lord/Lady (no town)
Dread Lord/Lady (no town)

I can't remember the blue ones other than Great Lord/Lady

Think there also was Proper, Nobel Lord/Lady, can't remember them.

Didn't Dishonorable turn you grey not red?

 

[FrejaSP]

Didn't Dishonorable turn you grey not red?

Nope Dishonorable did make you red, I'm 100% sure about that.

 

[Aboo]

Keep in mind, the red did not get his color in Trammel so his color should not effect if he can go to Trammel or not.

Red is a Fel thing, so the punishment should be a Fel thing too.

A red got their color because they did something "bad". I am 100% sure that if they allowed in Trammel what is allowed in Felucca then they WOULD get their color from Trammel too.

But that is beside the point. As I stated before there are consequences to being red, one of those consequences is NOT being allowed to go to Trammel. So my opinion stands, I would NOT be okay with reds being allowed in Trammel.

Now you tell me exactly what is there in Trammel that reds so desperately want, that they can't get in Felucca, that they are willing to go to a land most claim to despise? Or is it just a case of they want whatever it is they can't have?

 

[FrejaSP]

Now you tell me exactly what is there in Trammel that reds so desperately want, that they can't get in Felucca, that they are willing to go to a land most claim to despise? Or is it just a case of they want whatever it is they can't have?

I'm a roleplayer, my red is my PvP and PvM char, my other char is a crafter (not a mule)

Freja is the only of them who do fight, Tina Tink may kill a monster if attacked but if she need leather for crafting, it's Freja's job to get it.

Tina can go to all facets, Freja can only play on Felucca on normal shards, I would have to make a blue copy of her to hunt in Trammel or fight in guild wars there.

Not all Freja's counts was gained from PK'ing, alot was from killing bad blues. Don't tell me all blue is innocent.

I do play Siege now but Atlantic will always have a place in my heart.

Now tell me why you hate reds so much.

 

[Dicimiie]

I'm what is commonly referred to as a Trammie. I've only ventured into Fel on very rare occasions, just to see what it was like. I've never gathered resources there. I've only attemtped a couple of champ spawns there.

In all honesty, I do not see any reason why reds couldn't go to Trammel, Malas, Ilshenar or Tokuno anymore. The whole red/blue thing was valid when there was only Trammel. Now that there really is no such thing as non-consentual PvP (because going to Fel pretty much means you accept that you might be PK'd), the whole murderer tag seems rather pointless.

 

[Yalp]

Now you tell me exactly what is there in Trammel that reds so desperately want, that they can't get in Felucca, that they are willing to go to a land most claim to despise? Or is it just a case of they want whatever it is they can't have?

... fresh meat....

fel is dying because of the standard antics of reds.. gotta get yer gank juice flowing somewhere.. if the suckers, err peeps, won't come to you, better move the mountain to muhammad... and that's tramworld.

If you are red.. it's because you chose to be. If you want to go to tram.. stop doing the things that make you red..... if you were older than 12 you'd understand the concept of consequences... become blue.. go to any land you'd like.

 

[Dicimiie]

... fresh meat....

fel is dying because of the standard antics of reds.. gotta get yer gank juice flowing somewhere.. if the suckers, err peeps, won't come to you, better move the mountain to muhammad... and that's tramworld.

If you are red.. it's because you chose to be. If you want to go to tram.. stop doing the things that make you red..... if you were older than 12 you'd understand the concept of consequences... become blue.. go to any land you'd like.

Fresh meat from what? The same rules would still apply in the other facets. So the red that goes to Trammel wouldn't be able to do anything other than shop or hunt. What's the big deal?

Again, I'll say that the red/blue system was put in place to try and placate rampant player killing when there was one land. It really serves no purpose now.

 

[Lady_Mina]

I will all the people with PK chars who want to go to trammel raise their hand...

Cause i have yet to see the first PK who desperatly wants to go to trammel...
(most of them already go to tram with their blues anyways..but they shh about it)

 

[Yalp]

Fresh meat from what? The same rules would still apply in the other facets. So the red that goes to Trammel wouldn't be able to do anything other than shop or hunt. What's the big deal?

Again, I'll say that the red/blue system was put in place to try and placate rampant player killing when there was one land. It really serves no purpose now.

The murderer system was put into place because too many twinks were going around killing those that had no desire to engage in combat. This is bad social behavior. Unacceptable to our society, and worthy of punishment. The punishment is being banned from the lands were many fun and exciting events happen... which is your punishment!

If you don't like not being able to go to tram.. lucky you! Lucky Day! Your sentence is not a life sentence! You can change your fate! You and only you have the power to improve your behavior! Rather than demand society abolish it's rules and standards for what is considered bad behavior, try living within it. There are still consequences for your actions... don't like the consequences? Make different choices.

 

[Simon]

They should allow them in flagged as reds so people can club the evil out of them. They can't attack first, that's all. If they get attacked first they can defend.

Yea and then you get killed by a red on tram because you vortex attacked him? I would like to be the PK

 

[Draxous]

I never said I was special. What I said was things aren't going to change just because you want them to. Things will stay the way they are. The majority of the posters in this thread have said that things will stay the way they are. The only person trying to get things to change because YOU WANT THEM TO is you...so who thinks they are special? Umm.... *looks in your direction*

Sorry, I don't agree.

There are more posters in this thread that support the idea than those who oppose it.

Just because you reply 5000 times spouting the same illogical stuff over again does not mean 5000 people are on your side.

And lets get something straight. You're personal vendetta against players who PvP isn't going to be a factor in the Devs decision making process.

Whether or not this benefits the game and the player base is however going to make a difference.

Facts:

If reds are allowed in Trammel with no changes to the facet rules, then it doesn't negatively affect or even change anything for not one single player who doesn't care for Felucca in any way shape or form.

If reds are allowed in Trammel with no changes to the facet rules, then it opens up a game to players otherwise restricted and enables them positive rewards and options in a videogame.


Just because you have an irrational opinion about a playerbase you don't understand and actually harbor ill-will towards makes your argument worthless. I'm not talking about feelings or opinions, but about cold hard facts.


Allowing red characters access into Trammel changes absolutely nothing for those not red and/or not into the Felucca facet.


Now complain more about not being able to grief other players who have no bearing on your gameplay unless you choose to allow them to.

 

[Draxous]

... fresh meat....

fel is dying because of the standard antics of reds.. gotta get yer gank juice flowing somewhere.. if the suckers, err peeps, won't come to you, better move the mountain to muhammad... and that's tramworld.

If you are red.. it's because you chose to be. If you want to go to tram.. stop doing the things that make you red..... if you were older than 12 you'd understand the concept of consequences... become blue.. go to any land you'd like.

Fresh meat from what? The same rules would still apply in the other facets. So the red that goes to Trammel wouldn't be able to do anything other than shop or hunt. What's the big deal?

Again, I'll say that the red/blue system was put in place to try and placate rampant player killing when there was one land. It really serves no purpose now.

Exactly

The big deal is that there seems to be people that are so mentally messed up they actually have emotional investments in seeing people with other playstyles punished.

I think it has to do with them feeling inferior and needing some kind of assistance in feeling superior... but, that's just a hunch of mine.

 

[Draxous]

One final thought before the flood of replies from the same 3-4 people.

This would be a great step in mending the community. 8 years ago the community was divided and its about time we stop sectioning off people like they are little kids in a system that no longer serves the purpose it was supposed to.

 

[Yalp]

make fel consensual pvp only and then there would be no need to punish gankers.

you are not stuck being a red... stop murdering, work off your counts, and you can become blue.. only YOU are preventing you from doing this. stop blaming the game mechanics for your actions.

just because there seem to be the same couple of people in this thread arguing for it, does not mean the player base agrees and or wants this change.

being a **** isn't the same as having valid arguments... it just makes you a ****.

 

[Yalp]

Facts:

If reds are allowed in Trammel with no changes to the facet rules, then it opens up a game to players otherwise restricted and enables them positive rewards and options in a videogame
[/b]

Players are not restricted from Tram.. certain characters are.

 

[Ash]

Exactly

The big deal is that there seems to be people that are so mentally messed up they actually have emotional investments in seeing people with other playstyles punished.

Hmm, aren't you the one having a tantrum spouting over and over again it should happen because you want it. If you re-read the post you will see everyone BUT you have at least made efforts to propose win-win scenarios for both sides of the argument. But your mind is closed. You want to keep punishing trammel players for not being good enough at PvP while leaving the game open across all facets to PvPers alone. You want to say PvPers (reds) should have access to all aspects, but PvMers should be limited.

I think it has to do with them feeling inferior and needing some kind of assistance in feeling superior... but, that's just a hunch of mine.

Sorry, I don't feel inferior when it takes 3 reds to kill me and they run around speaking how they 'owned' me. I feel sorry for those that have to get their jollies ganging up on people to make themselves feel better. If they want to act like bullies in a school yard, then they deserve a time out.

Carry on with your tantrum now, spout more of the same you want it so it should be done crap. But don't be surprised that the Devs ignore you altogether.

 

[Draxous]

You want to keep punishing trammel players for not being good enough at PvP while leaving the game open across all facets to PvPers alone. You want to say PvPers (reds) should have access to all aspects, but PvMers should be limited.

If I wanted open access for PvPers, then I'd be arguing for the removal of the Trammel ruleset which I'm not. This is a thread about enhancing the gameplay of players and bringing the game more current with the times.

Who's punishing Trammel players for not being good enough at PvP? If the only way to obtain powerscrolls was through PvP and not through buying them from other players, then yes... I'd agree with you.


Keep ignoring the key point that this does nothing to negatively affect your game-play. I'm pretty sure that the Dev's aren't.

 

[Yalp]

Keep ignoring the key point that this does nothing to negatively affect your game-play. I'm pretty sure that the Dev's aren't.

no , the point of murderer status is to negatively affect YOUR game play. Not because of some arbitrary reason, the devs just felt like messing with your toon, you ran out of luck or killed the wrong mob.. no.. you did it to yourself.

 

[o2bavr6]

The murderer system was put into place because too many twinks were going around killing those that had no desire to engage in combat. This is bad social behavior. Unacceptable to our society, and worthy of punishment. The punishment is being banned from the lands were many fun and exciting events happen... which is your punishment!

This just shows that you have NO CLUE about the game.

The murder system was in since day one, it was part of the game.

If you knew anyting about PvP you would also know that is almost impossible to burn off counts once you get past 10 of them.

To say we made our bed jsut has no validity since the introduction of Tram.

And the only reason I would want to go there is for the ease of using Luna bank and the vendors there.

Also Tram has about 90% more of thenew game content that they add once in a while.

None of you have a clue of what you are talking about when you say we made our bed, because I guarentee you that you have played next to a person whos main char was a Red and you didnt even know it.

In fact you want to know when the char near you has a red? He is the one who is ressing you and not dying to spawn like you!

 

[o2bavr6]

no , the point of murderer status is to negatively affect YOUR game play. Not because of some arbitrary reason, the devs just felt like messing with your toon, you ran out of luck or killed the wrong mob.. no.. you did it to yourself.

Yalp :loser::loser:

 

[Draxous]

Keep ignoring the key point that this does nothing to negatively affect your game-play. I'm pretty sure that the Dev's aren't.

no , the point of murderer status is to negatively affect YOUR game play. Not because of some arbitrary reason, the devs just felt like messing with your toon, you ran out of luck or killed the wrong mob.. no.. you did it to yourself.

No.

Other posters have outlined why many players go red on their characters not because they have chosen to, but because the situations they were put in for playing a PvP playstyle didn't allow them to stay blue.

You ignore so many points other posters have made and you ignore the point I've repeated over and over again in this thread. It's obvious you all are jealous at the prospect of the Dev team devoting any kind of time at enhancing the gameplay of a playerbase that is other than your own. After 8 expansions tailored to you, you and your buddies have the me me me attitude, only thinking about what's in it for you. So a thread comes up suggesting the Devs enhance the game for players who's main character is a red and the only thing you and Ash, and galen can come up with is gimme powerscrolls or something out of the deal and then we'll say ok.


How about we don't give you anything and just allow red characters access into the Trammel facets, since it would enhance this game for those players and at the same time it won't affect you in any way shape or form.


This issue won't go away until the Devs officially address this problem properly. And they will.

I'm done. I think throughout the multitude of posts it's pretty obvious that you guys aren't thinking about improving ultima online at all but only thinking about yourselves and how you can benefit from something that has nothing to do with you and won't affect you in any way.

Chao

 

[Yalp]

You do realize that somewhere in the personal attacks you've thrown out you've disproved your point.

If many of the blues playing in Tram have reds in fel.. then the need for fel players to be able to go to tram is..........???

Players are not restricted from tramworld.. certain toons are. That is an actual counter point to your rants you never addressed. Why run from the discussion if you have actual points to address? Since all you wanna do is attack peeps for daring to have different opinions.. maybe it's best you went to bed.

 

[Radun]

You're ignoring the most important point. Being unable to escape from the torment of being freely attackable is fair justice and the consequence of being a murderer, a social outcast.
Murderers should not in any way have access the the security of the trammel ruleset.

 

[Draxous]

You do realize that somewhere in the personal attacks you've thrown out you've disproved your point.

If many of the blues playing in Tram have reds in fel.. then the need for fel players to be able to go to tram is..........???

Players are not restricted from tramworld.. certain toons are. That is an actual counter point to your rants you never addressed. Why run from the discussion if you have actual points to address? Since all you wanna do is attack peeps for daring to have different opinions.. maybe it's best you went to bed.

I haven't attacked a single person, personally here at all and I'm extremely offended at your accusations.

This thread is all about a proposal that does nothing but enhance the game for certain players, without effecting other player-types at all.

It's pretty obvious you've lost the argument when the only thing you can post is false accusations of me attacking you for having a different opinion. I'm attacking you opinion, which I think is wrong, off-base, selfish, ridiculous, outdated, and based on bigotry towards a playerbase that isn't your own.

I don't appreciate you trying to spin this discussion into me attacking you because I'm not and it's down right insulting to think you can even insinuate that kind of crap freely and openly with no repercussions.

I'm all about bettering Ultima Online for all of the players with-in it, even the ones you don't like.

 

[Radun]

freely and openly with no repercussions.

lol irony
the repercussions of murdering is that you can't escape player justice
If you want to take away those repercussions for murdering, you have to put something else in it's place.... no insurance for murderers, as an example.