If they gave reds access to Trammel

[RenaLynne]

Isnt not being able to leave Fel the punishment for being a murderer? So basically, you dont think there should be any negatives to being red? Am I missing something here?

 

[FrejaSP]

I have to agree most reds are foul mouthed jackasses who need to be whipped and tomatered in the town square.

Try making a red char and and play Fel same way as you would with tour blue.

Now tell me how blue is treating you, I'm sure there will be alot foul mouthed jackasses between them, maybe even some you had hunted with before but now just see a red to kill.

 

[o2bavr6]

Isnt not being able to leave Fel the punishment for being a murderer? So basically, you dont think there should be any negatives to being red? Am I missing something here?

Yes you are missing something here.

You see the game is not what it used to be, and being red today is no more than a fashion statement.

Also the game has changed almost 180 degrees to when it started. Should those of us who played since day one be penalized?

Also I have to agree that I like the idea of Reds being allowed in Tram, but they would have to follow the current Tram rules, so no PvP. There are just too many people who don't understand PvP that a lot of Reds would exploit.

And yes most Fell people don't want to go to Tram, but I think you (not RenaLynee) are missing the point when we ask to have access. It is for little things like using vendors or quick access to a bank such as Luna, close to a gate.

Yes we can log out of our Red and come on our Blue, but there are many, many times that we are flagged from some dumb spawn so we cant change characters for 5 minutes.

Also it's a real pain to have to change characters just so I can drop my spawn scrolls on the floor at Luna bank for anyone who may need them.

Oh, PLEASE MAKE ALL WANDERING HEALERS IN FEL RED. There is no need for blue hears in Fel.

 

[Setnaffa]

Sure. Allow Reds in Trammel. They Can PvM just like everyone else. They wouldn't be able to attack anyone and nobody could attack them (thanks to the Trammel Rule-set), so what do I care if they are there or not....I don't.

 

[o2bavr6]

Sure. Allow Reds in Trammel. They Can PvM just like everyone else. They wouldn't be able to attack anyone and nobody could attack them (thanks to the Trammel Rule-set), so what do I care if they are there or not....I don't.

Exactly, as long as there is no change to the Tram ruleset, minus letting reds in, it doesn't affect anyone in Tram.

 

[FrejaSP]

Sure. Allow Reds in Trammel. They Can PvM just like everyone else. They wouldn't be able to attack anyone and nobody could attack them (thanks to the Trammel Rule-set), so what do I care if they are there or not....I don't.

Sounds boring to me, I like my idea better.

Being able to go to Trammel and being 100% safe would never bring me back to normal shards. If I liked that, I would play on my blue in Trammel.
I can easy accept, that I can't attack blue unless they recently attacled or looted a red but being so safe, that I can't be attacked, that's damn boring.

Guess I never will make it back to Atlantic, the shard I was born on.

 

[o2bavr6]

Sounds boring to me, I like my idea better.

Being able to go to Trammel and being 100% safe would never bring me back to normal shards. If I liked that, I would play on my blue in Trammel.
I can easy accept, that I can't attack blue unless they recently attacled or looted a red but being so safe, that I can't be attacked, that's damn boring.

Guess I never will make it back to Atlantic, the shard I was born on.

The problem is that there are too many people who would exploit it. And too many Trammelites who just don't understand the game mechanics behind PvP and the flagging system.

We would also have Reds starting to $#%& talk at people to goat them into attacking them, which usualy ends in the Red destroying the Blue and the Blue claiming "hacker".

 

[FrejaSP]

The problem is that there are too many people who would exploit it. And too many Trammelites who just don't understand the game mechanics behind PvP and the flagging system.

We would also have Reds starting to $#%& talk at people to goat them into attacking them, which usualy ends in the Red destroying the Blue and the Blue claiming "hacker".

Sure a few blue may be that foolish but they will only de the mistake one time, then they would learn.

And yes, there would be a few reds trying to trick blue to a fight, but they do that already with inviting them to follow them to Felucca.

A few fools and a few asshats should not stop the game from moving forward.

Just make it so youngs can't attack or loot reds.

 

[Aboo]

I really think reds should be allowed in tram at least then I could own a house in tram and not have to log my red at an inn every time.

I'm confused, why can't you own a house in Felucca and log them there? Why do you have to log them in an inn?

 

[Aboo]

Just make it so youngs can't attack or loot reds.

I've got a better idea, just make it so reds can't come to Trammel. Oh wait it's already that way. Okay problem solved, no action necessary.

 

[Ash]

Isnt not being able to leave Fel the punishment for being a murderer? So basically, you dont think there should be any negatives to being red? Am I missing something here?

No your not missing anything, they want all punishments removed so they can raid and plumage all they want in Fel and then go to Tram whenever they want. Be it to escape retribution, easy access to banks so they can't be attacked or stolen from, so they easily get stuff to tram vendors that they took off people in Fel. It isn't enough that their raids and PKing keep blues in Tram, now they want to be able to go there as well.

My opinion is the idea is crap, they get the benefit of risk vs reward but don't want to deal with the consequences of being red. They want to say they pay their $ each month and should have everything available to them, I say I pay my $ each month and should be able to do champ spawns for scrolls without being raided. But i am sure they will argue that if I spent months learning to fight I can go to fel, well if they have a blue they can go to Tram.

 

[o2bavr6]

I'm confused, why can't you own a house in Felucca and log them there? Why do you have to log them in an inn?

Because you can only own one house per account, and he must already have a house in Tram.

No more confusion

 

[o2bavr6]

I've got a better idea, just make it so reds can't come to Trammel. Oh wait it's already that way. Okay problem solved, no action necessary.

So in your mind allowing Reds in Tram, as long as they had to follow the current ruleset, is not ok with you?

How would this affect your gameplay in anyway, other than when you looked at the character, instead of his color being blue it wold be red?

 

[o2bavr6]

No your not missing anything, they want all punishments removed so they can raid and plumage all they want in Fel and then go to Tram whenever they want. Be it to escape retribution, easy access to banks so they can't be attacked or stolen from, so they easily get stuff to tram vendors that they took off people in Fel. It isn't enough that their raids and PKing keep blues in Tram, now they want to be able to go there as well.

My opinion is the idea is crap, they get the benefit of risk vs reward but don't want to deal with the consequences of being red. They want to say they pay their $ each month and should have everything available to them, I say I pay my $ each month and should be able to do champ spawns for scrolls without being raided. But i am sure they will argue that if I spent months learning to fight I can go to fel, well if they have a blue they can go to Tram.

With your logic, we could say that no blues should be allowed in Fel, yet they are allowed.

You strike me as someone who has not had much success in PvP or in Fel, but the fact remains that saying we made our bed just holds no water.

You can PK people regardless if your Red or Blue.

But I would agree with you that no Reds should be allowed in Tram, but then maybe they should make it to where you cant burn off murder counts. Once you get a count its there permanently. If you get 5 your red permanently.

I just find it funny that you are so ademate about leaving Reds out of Tram, when it doesnt affect you in any way at all.

Have you ever been to Fel?
Have you ever killed a blue on your blue in Fel?
Have you ever done a champ spawn in Fel?
Have you ever PvPed in Fel other than Yew gate?

The answers to these questions may help us understand where you point of view is coming from, and what kind of credence it has.

 

[Draxous]

Sure. Allow Reds in Trammel. They Can PvM just like everyone else. They wouldn't be able to attack anyone and nobody could attack them (thanks to the Trammel Rule-set), so what do I care if they are there or not....I don't.

Sounds boring to me, I like my idea better.

Sounds like you're the only one so far.


While a better PvP system is the ultimate goal, I think it's pretty obvious here that reds being stuck in Felucca, unable to do any of the Trammel quests... unable to access oodles of dungeons, and other such things available to everyone else is well... out of date.

 

[Ash]

With your logic, we could say that no blues should be allowed in Fel, yet they are allowed.

You strike me as someone who has not had much success in PvP or in Fel, but the fact remains that saying we made our bed just holds no water.

You can PK people regardless if your Red or Blue.

But I would agree with you that no Reds should be allowed in Tram, but then maybe they should make it to where you cant burn off murder counts. Once you get a count its there permanently. If you get 5 your red permanently.

I just find it funny that you are so ademate about leaving Reds out of Tram, when it doesnt affect you in any way at all.

Have you ever been to Fel?
Have you ever killed a blue on your blue in Fel?
Have you ever done a champ spawn in Fel?
Have you ever PvPed in Fel other than Yew gate?

The answers to these questions may help us understand where you point of view is coming from, and what kind of credence it has.

Have you ever been to Fel? - Yes
Have you ever killed a blue on your blue in Fel? - No
Have you ever done a champ spawn in Fel? - Yes
Have you ever PvPed in Fel other than Yew gate? - Yes

And yes, I believe there should remain consequences to being red. Just don't see why someone should be able to get the benefit of killing blues in Fel as much as they want and give up nothing.

With your logic, we could say that no blues should be allowed in Fel, yet they are allowed.

Besides just being able to see how 'my logic' applied to such an illogical statement, it is also completely unable to be done as then you have the whole chicken vs egg dilemma. If don't allow blues in, then they can't become red so can't get in. But hey, by your logic that would mean the end of PvP since without blues to kill all the murders will become blue and be kicked out of fel.

And I think it is funny that Reds WANT to go to Tram in the first place.

 

[Lady_Mina]

I think the few reds who even want to go to tram would get pretty bored fast.

Since they can't PvP...and they have to stay away from the guardzones.


So their only option is go shopping...

 

[Draxous]

You know, a lot of reds who enjoy the Felucca facet also enjoy many other things that Ultima Online has to offer... and the Dev team has a nasty habit of putting all of the stuff in Trammel.

How can a red go to Labrynth if they felt like it? Or Bedlam? Or the Citadel to do a travesty?

They can't.

How can a red go to Doom and get the artifacts they want?

They can't.


I don't agree at all with the poster above you that thinks there should be consequences for reds. Not anymore. If this was truly a sandbox (like Siege is) then yes, there should be consequences for being red... but let's face it. If you go to Felucca it is because you choose to have PvP experienced in your gameplay.

Since it is a choice, then there should be no repercussions for making that choice.

Dev team... please allow reds into Trammel.

 

[Connor_Graham]

No your not missing anything, they want all punishments removed so they can raid and plumage all they want in Fel and then go to Tram whenever they want. Be it to escape retribution, easy access to banks so they can't be attacked or stolen from, so they easily get stuff to tram vendors that they took off people in Fel. It isn't enough that their raids and PKing keep blues in Tram, now they want to be able to go there as well.
.

They can do all of this already just by switching over to a blue char on the same account. Having a red doesn't keep an entire account from Tram, it just keeps that single char from Tram. Your entire argument is pointless because of that simple fact. Hell, the blue you crossheal with in Doom today could very well be the same player whose red char killed and drylooted you 2 hours before. You'd never know unless you knew the player or someone told you. As long as the rules stay the same in both rulesets, I don't see any reason why any character should be limited to a single land.

 

[Ash]

They can do all of this already just by switching over to a blue char on the same account. Having a red doesn't keep an entire account from Tram, it just keeps that single char from Tram.

That is my point, players are not restricted because they have a red as they have opportunity to have blue char. If they choose to have all their characters red, then that is their choice which they made with full knowledge of the consequences.

If anyone wants to argue no consequences for red, then fine put powerscrolls in tram or ilsh so i only have to deal with reds when I choose to enter PvP. But since powerscrolls are only available in Fel, one is forced to enter in PvP in order to obtain them and there should be consequences for murders if i am forced to PvP. If powerscrolls were available elsewhere and then the only purpose of Fel would be true consensual PvP then by all means do away with consequences since at that point I will be entering the arena for PvP and not being subjected to it as the only means to acquire powerscrolls. However I know everyone (well mostly fel folks) will argue the keeping of powerscrolls to Fel only, so therefor I argue to keep reds out of Tram. In truth I don't really want powerscrolls in Tram either as they would be farmed and utterly worthless, but neither do i want to have to lay in the dirt to 4 reds boasting how they killed me in a 4 on 1 match up.

So keep it is as is, or make changes to stop forcing people to have to go to fel for items that can't be acquired anywhere else.

 

[Draxous]

That is my point, players are not restricted because they have a red as they have opportunity to have blue char. If they choose to have all their characters red, then that is their choice which they made with full knowledge of the consequences.

That's my point.

What purpose does having the restriction serve?

Hint: none


There should only be consequences if they make sense... these don't.

 

[Omnius]

The best part is how misguided most of the people here are. 1 character? Who pvps with one character? I have 2 blues. A Mage Tamer and a Mage/Mule.

Why would pvping on only 1 template be fun? I have 2 types of dexxers. A necro fencer and a mage all for pvp. They are each better for seperate situations and I need any, or more likely all, of them for guild purposes on a regular day.

Essentially to pvp at the most effective level for myself and my guild I need a minimum of 3 reds, ideally 4 and depending on my devotion to playing 5. Anything less would be a disservice to my guild mates and a detriment to my fun. it's highly restrictive to me that I need to soulstone skills around if I want to farm for artifacts. It makes no sense that I should be penalized for pvping. Blue does not mean innocent. If I run a blue mage, My fields can't hurt blues coming to steal my spawn. What value would I have to my guild if my ability to provide a field support role was limited only to reds? the answer is our enemies would steam roll us.

If I'm blue, I'm essentially announcing that it is my job to kill the champ or to run scrolls out. I don't want to kill the mind numbingly boring AI and then leave. I want to do battle.

Don't say do guild wars, nobody accepts them. they guild their mules and as a result want them safe unless they get sloppy and put them in harms way.


Being red means nothing more than saying, I'm here to pvp and I'm a team player.

 

[o2bavr6]

That is my point, players are not restricted because they have a red as they have opportunity to have blue char. If they choose to have all their characters red, then that is their choice which they made with full knowledge of the consequences.

If anyone wants to argue no consequences for red, then fine put powerscrolls in tram or ilsh so i only have to deal with reds when I choose to enter PvP. But since powerscrolls are only available in Fel, one is forced to enter in PvP in order to obtain them and there should be consequences for murders if i am forced to PvP. If powerscrolls were available elsewhere and then the only purpose of Fel would be true consensual PvP then by all means do away with consequences since at that point I will be entering the arena for PvP and not being subjected to it as the only means to acquire powerscrolls. However I know everyone (well mostly fel folks) will argue the keeping of powerscrolls to Fel only, so therefor I argue to keep reds out of Tram. In truth I don't really want powerscrolls in Tram either as they would be farmed and utterly worthless, but neither do i want to have to lay in the dirt to 4 reds boasting how they killed me in a 4 on 1 match up.

So keep it is as is, or make changes to stop forcing people to have to go to fel for items that can't be acquired anywhere else.

You do realize that some of use have been playing since before Tram. When there was no Tram, you are correct to say we made our own beds. But with the introduction of Tram and the almost 180 degree change in the game, now leaves all my characters out of Tram.

Also we have Champ Spawns you have Doom Arties.
Yet you can come here and try to get scrolls, but we cant go there to try to get arties.

 

[Amathist of PoC]

Given the way a large percentage of reds on my shard behave I am quite happy for them to stay in fel, having them able to annoy me on all facets would just wreck the game.

Not saying all reds make me feel this way some fight with honour but a large group do not and they wreck the fun for everyone.

 

[o2bavr6]

Given the way a large percentage of reds on my shard behave I am quite happy for them to stay in fel, having them able to annoy me on all facets would just wreck the game.

Not saying all reds make me feel this way some fight with honour but a large group do not and they wreck the fun for everyone.

You are still generalizing. There are many reds who do have blues and I'm sure you've played right along side them without even knowing it.

We are not asking to change the rule in Tram, just to let reds there too. But they would have to follow the current ruleset.

Or if they made the change i propose to where when you enter Fel you are red regardless if youve killed anyone or not, and when you enter Tram you are blue.

 

[Yalp]

Why? Just allowing reds to travel outside of fel does not mean that reds cn come to trammel and start killing people the trammel rules still apply the only difference is that reds are no longer limited to the felucca facet only.

I really think reds should be allowed in tram at least then I could own a house in tram and not have to log my red at an inn every time. Not to mention if you only have single account and you have a red on that account you need a house in fel or else the only thing you can access is your bank for storage and that sucks.

* scratches head*
confusion here.. we do all know there are different rule sets for tram and fel right? And we do know that reds can work off their murder count to give them access to tram land? Hmm... just wondering about personal choice and style of play and all.. odd...

 

[Dermott of LS]

...

And we do know that reds can work off their murder count to give them access to tram land?

And if they could come to Tram in the first place, why would they need to "work off" the murder counts in the first place considering that's the LAST "punishment"?

 

[Yalp]

so what would be the punishment for being a murderer?

 

[Dermott of LS]

...

That's the point... there wouldn't be any.

 

[Yalp]

ahh.. righto.. then maybe this thread should be ....

"Remove all consequences for being red" aka.. "I wanna eat all the chocolate I can and never gain an ounce" or "I should be allowed to take all the money from the bank without you coppers bothering me" or "Honey, don't be like that.. I'm a guy, and its in my DNA to sleep with as many women as I can before I die"

hee. hee.

 

[Ash]

You are still generalizing. There are many reds who do have blues and I'm sure you've played right along side them without even knowing it.

We are not asking to change the rule in Tram, just to let reds there too. But they would have to follow the current ruleset.

Or if they made the change i propose to where when you enter Fel you are red regardless if youve killed anyone or not, and when you enter Tram you are blue.

Again, if no blues in Fel then how can there be reds?

You are completely ignoring the fact that not everyone that goes to Fel WANTS to PvP but are forced to do so. Only way reds should be void of any consequences is if PvP was truly consensual and not forced upon as only means to earn certain items. You want to get rid of all consequences then give up the risk vs reward benefits as well.

 

[Draxous]

ahh.. righto.. then maybe this thread should be ....

"Remove all consequences for being red" aka.. "I wanna eat all the chocolate I can and never gain an ounce" or "I should be allowed to take all the money from the bank without you coppers bothering me" or "Honey, don't be like that.. I'm a guy, and its in my DNA to sleep with as many women as I can before I die"

hee. hee.

You never answered the question of why there should be consequences for being red?

You just assume that there should be.

Remove Trammel and I'll agree with you, choosing to be a murderer should have consequences.

 

[Draxous]

Again, if no blues in Fel then how can there be reds?

You are completely ignoring the fact that not everyone that goes to Fel WANTS to PvP but are forced to do so. Only way reds should be void of any consequences is if PvP was truly consensual and not forced upon as only means to earn certain items. You want to get rid of all consequences then give up the risk vs reward benefits as well.

Why are you fixating on an exaggeration of his?

Riddle me this, then?

Why shouldn't blues be allowed in Felucca? There is no reason why they shouldn't be.

Why shouldn't reds be allowed in Trammel? There is no reason why they shouldn't be.

 

[Ash]

Why are you fixating on an exaggeration of his?

Riddle me this, then?

Why shouldn't blues be allowed in Felucca? There is no reason why they shouldn't be.

Why shouldn't reds be allowed in Trammel? There is no reason why they shouldn't be.

Read carefully to my responses and you will see I answered if you want to get rid of consequences then give up the benefits of risk v reward.

We get it! You want to be able to ruin the fun of people that have no choice but go to fel to get the rewards only available there, yeah for you. Yippie for you that you don't feel that action should be penalized. I am sure your victims don't share your opinion.

Just because you WANT to do as you please and ruin the game for others doesn't mean you should be void of consequence.

I have stated repeatedly, and will say it again for you, IF PvP was truly consensual and not something unequiped players were forced into, then I would have no problem with revamping the system, as then the only Blues the reds would kill were ones that choose freely to enter into PvP. Consider that not everyone enjoys being murdered, and even in a game feel there must be consequences for such action. If the ability to get items ONLY available to Fel were made available elsewhere, then and only then would PvP be truly consensual and justification for lifting consequences be reasonable.

So give up the risk vs reward benefit and then I will be happy to agree of removing boundaries for reds.

 

[Draxous]

If the ability to get items ONLY available to Fel were made available elsewhere, then and only then would PvP be truly consensual and justification for lifting consequences be reasonable.

Name me an item you can get in Felucca that you cannot get in Trammel?

You choose to go to Felucca and because there is an incentive to go there, you feel it's justifiable that a playerbase shouldn't be allowed to go to Trammel?

It is consensual because you have a choice. You're post has nothing to do with Risk vs Reward.

The only thing you're saying to me is that, since there are Trammel players that choose not to go after power scrolls because they are intimidated by red characters, then it's only fair that red characters not be allowed in Trammel facets at all because YOU need payback for them enjoying a playstyle.

Seriously?

Please.

 

[Dermott of LS]

...

So ditch reds entirely, Trammelize Fel, limit PvP to consentual systems, get rid of double resources/fame/etc and let things go from there.

No? Didn't think so.

 

[Ash]

Name me an item you can get in Felucca that you cannot get in Trammel?

You choose to go to Felucca and because there is an incentive to go there, you feel it's justifiable that a playerbase shouldn't be allowed to go to Trammel?

It is consensual because you have a choice. You're post has nothing to do with Risk vs Reward.

The only thing you're saying to me is that, since there are Trammel players that choose not to go after power scrolls because they are intimidated by red characters, then it's only fair that red characters not be allowed in Trammel facets at all because YOU need payback for them enjoying a playstyle.

Seriously?

Please.

Finally you get it! Congrats.

Kind of confused how you ask me to name an item can't get in Tram, and then mention the power scrolls yourself? Why did you need me to name them then?

So riddle me this, why shouldn't reds be penalized for ruining the game for others? Suppose you want a cookie every time you kill someone less skilled than you, or maybe a cake when you team up and gank someone.

Just don't see how you justify ruining other people's fun and think there should be no consequences.

As I said, it is obvious you think only Reds should be allowed to enjoy all aspects of the game. Blues should avoid fel or enter and die to the reds neither of which is fun and the reds should have free roam everywhere.

 

[Ash]

...

So ditch reds entirely, Trammelize Fel, limit PvP to consentual systems, get rid of double resources/fame/etc and let things go from there.

No? Didn't think so.

there is an idea, PvP only if in Factions or Guild Wars. Everyone wins.

With Dermott though and don't think too many reds would agree.

 

[Yalp]

so you are red because you engage in non-consensual pvp on a facet that gives double the fame, gold and resources, not to mention scrolls, and you think there shouldn't be any consequences for that?

peeps can whine about it all they like.. but if you have a red that you need to take to tram world, then work off the counts. Seriously dude.. you already have a remedy at your disposal for getting your toons to tramworld. Use it instead of whining about changes here. Your arguments make no sense.

 

[Surgeries]

...

So ditch reds entirely, Trammelize Fel, limit PvP to consentual systems, get rid of double resources/fame/etc and let things go from there.

No? Didn't think so.

I think you are onto something!

Put the ONE thing they have in Fel we don't have in Tram...in Tram...put PS in Tram, and put ALL our Trammie stuff in Fel!! Leave the Non-Con PvP in Fel, and let them fight over everything, and not just Power Scrolls! That would REALLY make Fel fun!!

That would work...

Oh wait...they'd have to close Fel...

Never mind...

 

[galefan2004]

I just had a brainstorm (or a brainfart depending on your views )

PvP is completely consentual and reds can go anywhere. When a blue enters fel or a red enters tram, every uninsured item you have earned there can be contested (Resources ETC). Someone can challenge you and if you choose not to fight, they get the items you earned there (Powerscrolls ETC). If you accept and win you get to keep your items. This continues to encourage pvp but doesn't force it.

What UO players and possibly EA needs to figure out is that no game HAS EVER BEEN successful when you could lose items. In games where you absolutely can not lose items you have very little risk. The majority of players get enough of a sense of risk in their real lives, and when they enter the game they don't want to feel a real sense of risk. There is a reason no other game has ever allowed items to drop to a corpse since UO, and there is a reason why those games for the most party were 10-20x (or more) as successful as UO.

 

[galefan2004]

Sure a few blue may be that foolish but they will only de the mistake one time, then they would learn.

And here I was thinking the whines about greater dragons weren't extreme enough yet. Out of all the time I've been pvping in Felucca I've seen MAYBE 5-6 greater dragons. I've seen that many in Trammel/Ilsh/Malas in one dungeon at a given time. You really think a red walking into a dungeon to pick a fight is going to start said fight without that blue having all of his friends and their pets there. I mean, come on, one greater is enough, but imagine having 5 on you just because you are red. Thats not going to end very well for the red. Don't assume all blues have no clue to PvP just because they chose not to live in Felucca on reds.

And yes, there would be a few reds trying to trick blue to a fight, but they do that already with inviting them to follow them to Felucca.

In my experience it has been scrubs that invite you to go to Felucca, and the majority of the time the person that gets invited to Felucca ends up cleaning up the scrub. I remember being in Cove and some dude coming to my friend and telling him how much tamers sucked and that they had no skill and that he could easily beat him up in Felucca. My friend told him to gate so the dude gates to some place (I'm assuming it was the roof of Empath Abbey) that was about 5x5 size and my friend's dog ate him.

A few fools and a few asshats should not stop the game from moving forward.

Unfortunately it almost always does, and that is not just in UO, but in many other games. Number one reason people complain about WoW (and leave WoW) is because of the fools and asshats that are in great supply and always tend to flock together. Nothing is quite as fun as having someone that knows absolutely nothing about his own character tell you how to play yours (when he has never played yours before) and then complain because you aren't doing it to his expectations.

Just make it so youngs can't attack or loot reds.

So take any and all pentalty away from being red? Reds should be freely lootable by everyone and freely attackable by everyone if you let them into Trammel. If that person just so happens to be unattackable and has a young tag then tough luck for the red. Besides, other than the multiple Melissa trial accounts that were opened, when was the last time you ever saw a young?

 

[Draxous]

...

So ditch reds entirely, Trammelize Fel, limit PvP to consentual systems, get rid of double resources/fame/etc and let things go from there.

No? Didn't think so.

What the hell?

Do any of you people replying to my points want to make some sense? I'm not sure where to start. I can't repeat myself again (the past several attempts didn't work) and I can't reword what I said much more than I already have.

Why in the hell would this make sense?

Because you can't figure out an argument you need to exaggerate to an extreme?

Nice way to fail.

 

[galefan2004]

No your not missing anything, they want all punishments removed so they can raid and plumage all they want in Fel and then go to Tram whenever they want. Be it to escape retribution, easy access to banks so they can't be attacked or stolen from, so they easily get stuff to tram vendors that they took off people in Fel. It isn't enough that their raids and PKing keep blues in Tram, now they want to be able to go there as well.

If you made reds freely attackable in Trammel I can pretty much gaurantee you no red would ever get near Luna bank without having a zerg of players kill them just for fun.

I say I pay my $ each month and should be able to do champ spawns for scrolls without being raided. But i am sure they will argue that if I spent months learning to fight I can go to fel, well if they have a blue they can go to Tram.

I am 100% in agreement. One of my favorite things to do in UO is champion spawns, but I'm not investing that much time and effort into something so someone can come along and kill me then take it from me, so I normally don't even bother logging in unless its for an event or I'm really bored. I like UO, so I don't plan on closing my account, but I hardly play anymore simply because of the issues with champion spawns being only in Felucca.

 

[galefan2004]

Because you can only own one house per account, and he must already have a house in Tram.

No more confusion

It is called moving. There are plenty of spots on most servers to place max sized house in Felucca. If you want to be red then live in Felucca. If you own a house in Trammel/Malas/Tokuno then sell it and move. Its more than the said player wants to be red on one toon, but he doesn't want to have to worry about his blues ever getting attacked (although he probably attacks other blues freely) so he lives in Trammel ruleset. Now he wants to bring his red to his house in Trammel simply so he doesn't have to take his blues to Felucca. That is the pure definition of hypocricy in my oppinion.

 

[Draxous]

so you are red because you engage in non-consensual pvp on a facet that gives double the fame, gold and resources, not to mention scrolls, and you think there shouldn't be any consequences for that?

peeps can whine about it all they like.. but if you have a red that you need to take to tram world, then work off the counts. Seriously dude.. you already have a remedy at your disposal for getting your toons to tramworld. Use it instead of whining about changes here. Your arguments make no sense.

Your arguments make no sense. And you people sound really psychotic holding such angst against a player base that doesn't even affect your playstyle.


I have news for you. I don't have a single red and never have. I actually kill reds, just like there are reds who RP and are what you all would consider the "good guys." Why would you think I was complaining for my own sake or personal gain? I'm sorry I'm not so stupid to believe the crap you and your co-parts spew nor the way you people are trying to spin things. You make no sense.

You actually want to punish or should I say, try to put FAKE consequences on people because they choose to PvP in the champ spawns? And you want them to pay those consequences because they PvPed against people who chose to come to the only facet players are allowed to openly PvP in?

ROFL!

but WOW, some PK must of really really made some serious butt hurt for those to harboring the ill will I see here.

Too funny.

 

[Draxous]

Because you can only own one house per account, and he must already have a house in Tram.

No more confusion

It is called moving. There are plenty of spots on most servers to place max sized house in Felucca. If you want to be red then live in Felucca. If you own a house in Trammel/Malas/Tokuno then sell it and move. Its more than the said player wants to be red on one toon, but he doesn't want to have to worry about his blues ever getting attacked (although he probably attacks other blues freely) so he lives in Trammel ruleset. Now he wants to bring his red to his house in Trammel simply so he doesn't have to take his blues to Felucca. That is the pure definition of hypocricy in my oppinion.

That player pays the same monthly subscription fee that you do. He/She should be allowed to enjoy this game the way he/she feels he/she damn well pleases.

You aint nobody more or less special and **** you for implying that you should be.

Your posts are the pure definition of hypocrisies.

 

[galefan2004]

That's my point.

What purpose does having the restriction serve?

Hint: none


There should only be consequences if they make sense... these don't.

Fine...I'll go with that...new rule should be that if you have a red on your account your entire account is restricted to Felucca only. That would solve a lot of issues about just switching characters. If you want items from Travesty then buy them from other players and if you want items from Doom then buy them from other players. When guilds "own felucca champion spawns" they make the arguement that you can still buy scrolls from them, so it seems only fair.

Here is the deal. You give us power scroll drops on champion spawns in Ilshenar/Tokuno and a harrower in Trammel and I will gladly have them mirror the Citadel and the Guantlet in Felucca. The catch though is that you have to have all your characters in Felucca if you have a red and you can have your characters in Felucca or Trammel if you don't have a red.

 

[Draxous]

Here is the deal. You give us power scroll drops on champion spawns in Ilshenar/Tokuno and a harrower in Trammel and I will gladly have them mirror the Citadel and the Guantlet in Felucca. The catch though is that you have to have all your characters in Felucca if you have a red and you can have your characters in Felucca or Trammel if you don't have a red.

Here's the deal.

We'll keep the power scrolls in Felucca. You can choose to purchase them from other players/vendors or go get them yourself.

Then, we're going to make it so that reds can choose to go to Doom and farm arties, or to any of the peerless dungeons they don't have access to or any of the quests they can't partake in.


But now, you're going to cry about how BlacK RaiN is telling you how we're all players paying the same subscription fee and you are nobody special.


So carry on with the tears

 

[galefan2004]

Name me an item you can get in Felucca that you cannot get in Trammel?

Do you know what power scrolls and stat scrolls are? Seriously. Don't say that you can buy them from those that go to Felucca or something stupid like that or I will argue that no one with a red on their account should have access to the gauntlet, DH, or Travesty.

You choose to go to Felucca and because there is an incentive to go there, you feel it's justifiable that a playerbase shouldn't be allowed to go to Trammel?

The very fact that the developers feel the need to BRIBE players to enter Felucca because simply wanting to PvP is not enough reason is proof that the PvP system in this game is borked. With a fully consentual system of PvP you would have people that actually want to PvP bring the challenge and you would see a lot more PvP than what currently goes on.

It is consensual because you have a choice. You're post has nothing to do with Risk vs Reward.

Your choice is to go get the double resources yourself or buy them from some scripter that is doing it. Your choice is to go get power scrolls yourself or buy it from some zerg hacker guild that "owns all of the spawns in Felucca". The choice is normally simple. I buy very few powerscrolls for my characters, and I get the majority of them myself. I don't buy rescources from players at all, and I sell them (and I don't script to get them).

The only thing you're saying to me is that, since there are Trammel players that choose not to go after power scrolls because they are intimidated by red characters, then it's only fair that red characters not be allowed in Trammel facets at all because YOU need payback for them enjoying a playstyle.

Lol. Thats a typical red response. What the poster is saying is that if you feel the need to destroy someone else's fun for personal gain while they are PvMing then we really don't see a reason you should be allowed to come to Trammel so we have to deal with you there too.