I support this idea
I would love to PvP everywhere. I think the possibility of 20 min statloss in any facet is a great trade off for being able to PvP there.
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I would love to PvP everywhere. I think the possibility of 20 min statloss in any facet is a great trade off for being able to PvP there.
M
Mechanic
Guest
lack of in innovation breeds stagnation.
you can't change anything in this game for the better or for the worse without a billion, wait scratch that its UO , without a hundred people screaming their heads off, the other hundred will either cheer or not care.
you can't change anything in this game for the better or for the worse without a billion, wait scratch that its UO , without a hundred people screaming their heads off, the other hundred will either cheer or not care.
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Salty Pete
Guest
Didn't we just have this same discussion in another thread?
First of all lets talk about this red/blue crap. They aren't "reds", they are murderers. These are characters who recieved 5+ murder counts for initiating the death of an innocent character (and by innocent I mean characters that they attacked first.) We need to return to the previous system of having murderers unable to enter guard zones. It has done nothing positive for Felucca.
Secondly, factions should be moved to Trammel. This way factions forces would no longer need fear interference from non-factions PvPers and factions battles could also happen in Ilshenar, Malas, Elfworld and Japantown. Also, factions characters would no longer have to worry about taking counts while doing their factions crap. Yes there would be the negatives of not being able to have the push through system like in Felucca, and it would make sigil defenses rely more on PvP than on using creative item placement, but I think the positives would heavily outweigh the negatives.
Those folks who enjoy playing murderers would still have champ spawns, dungeons and the vast open plains of Felucca to hunt innocents.
First of all lets talk about this red/blue crap. They aren't "reds", they are murderers. These are characters who recieved 5+ murder counts for initiating the death of an innocent character (and by innocent I mean characters that they attacked first.) We need to return to the previous system of having murderers unable to enter guard zones. It has done nothing positive for Felucca.
Secondly, factions should be moved to Trammel. This way factions forces would no longer need fear interference from non-factions PvPers and factions battles could also happen in Ilshenar, Malas, Elfworld and Japantown. Also, factions characters would no longer have to worry about taking counts while doing their factions crap. Yes there would be the negatives of not being able to have the push through system like in Felucca, and it would make sigil defenses rely more on PvP than on using creative item placement, but I think the positives would heavily outweigh the negatives.
Those folks who enjoy playing murderers would still have champ spawns, dungeons and the vast open plains of Felucca to hunt innocents.
And I did not think at Siege at all!
When I agree, that reds should be able to go to all facets, I do not agree to your way to make it happen.
With forcing all who want to go to Fel or Ilshenar to join Factions, you are taking away Ilshenar from the non PvP'ers and alot of them enjoy that facet. You are also removing reds from Felucca, when no more can go red when all is in factions.
Worse of all, you are removing good vs evil in Felucca.
My idea is not more silly than yours and sure not more unrealistic. I was not hijacking your thread as my idea just was an alternative to your idea and true to the subject.
My idea is doable and will work without ruin the game for alot of players. I really don't care if you like it, what matter is if the UO community and devs like it.
I sure do that and I know what I spaek about
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Revenant2
Guest
There are aspects which make sense, but other ones that make for problems, if people's red characters are admitted to trammel.
On the pro side: it makes sense that all chars should be able to visit Trammel areas because, after all, there are no 'red players'. There are only red chars. As of now, even the most die-hard murderer-type players will have some sort of blue to go shopping for all of those great deals on non-duped, perfectly-safe items for sale in Luna and elsewhere in Blue Land. Where's the harm in allowing a red-hued char to make that shopping trip, or to make that foray into Travesty or Dread Horn?
On the con side: right now, simply seeing a red character can disturb some of the straight-up 'trammies'. For some players, the Trammel areas exist as an entirely seperate game from Fel, a place where stranger PKing never happens. They don't play the Fel one, and seeing a red char in Trammel would literally be disturbing for them because of an association with what they feel is unreasonable danger and personal assault. They regularly accept assaults from monsters but are unprepared to accept them from people. Seeing reds around them will get a negative reaction out of them on some level.
I think it could be done but, these things should go along with it if it were to happen:
- a different color than red must appear on the 'reds' when they enter the Trammel zones. It would reflect the fact that in Trammel, the reds are not functioning as full-fledged PKs and should not get the same set of reactions to them while in Trammel. This will both help the Trammel regulars feel more comfortable at the beginning of this thing, plus correctly reflect the situation.
The color must be distinct from Blue however, so that people in Tram know not to freely follow such a char into Fel with any expectation of the char not having a reason to PK them.
- reds in Trammel must NOT be attackable by anyone except guildmates, allies etc. Red chars must not be allowed to come to Trammel to fight other people even if someone else is willing to flag first. Such a thing would clash with one of the expected characteristics of the Trammel ruleset which is to prevent PKing between non-friends. Seeing a red kill a blue in Trammel, even if its supposed to be self-defense, isn't acceptable within that ruleset. Furthermore, it would be too easy for reds to get blues to flag and to functionally go PKing within tram this way.
- the question of the operation of healers would need to be examined. With no PKing in Trammel, it would follow that reds should be rezzable at any shrine in that environment. However, within Fel, they are currently trying to enforce difficulties upon reds who wish to get rezzed. I happen to be of the opinion that it should be just as easy for a red char to get rezzed as a blue one, but regardless, the concept of red chars in Trammel would need to be examined in this context. Reds in Fel could, after all, hit a moongate and go to Spirituality shrine for their rez if the shrine was accessible to them and worked.
- if such a thing were done, it would make sense for the restrictions preventing red characters from buying and selling with NPCs to be removed. IMO this should have happened already.
There could be other catches but that's all I see off the top of my head.
The arguments like "reds must be punished and inconvenienced!" are invalid both in this context and this time frame. If you wish to "punish" "red players" then you have to prevent all of the characters on that individual's account from entering Trammel if there is even one red on the account.
Tying it all to factions doesn't make sense to me.
On the pro side: it makes sense that all chars should be able to visit Trammel areas because, after all, there are no 'red players'. There are only red chars. As of now, even the most die-hard murderer-type players will have some sort of blue to go shopping for all of those great deals on non-duped, perfectly-safe items for sale in Luna and elsewhere in Blue Land. Where's the harm in allowing a red-hued char to make that shopping trip, or to make that foray into Travesty or Dread Horn?
On the con side: right now, simply seeing a red character can disturb some of the straight-up 'trammies'. For some players, the Trammel areas exist as an entirely seperate game from Fel, a place where stranger PKing never happens. They don't play the Fel one, and seeing a red char in Trammel would literally be disturbing for them because of an association with what they feel is unreasonable danger and personal assault. They regularly accept assaults from monsters but are unprepared to accept them from people. Seeing reds around them will get a negative reaction out of them on some level.
I think it could be done but, these things should go along with it if it were to happen:
- a different color than red must appear on the 'reds' when they enter the Trammel zones. It would reflect the fact that in Trammel, the reds are not functioning as full-fledged PKs and should not get the same set of reactions to them while in Trammel. This will both help the Trammel regulars feel more comfortable at the beginning of this thing, plus correctly reflect the situation.
The color must be distinct from Blue however, so that people in Tram know not to freely follow such a char into Fel with any expectation of the char not having a reason to PK them.
- reds in Trammel must NOT be attackable by anyone except guildmates, allies etc. Red chars must not be allowed to come to Trammel to fight other people even if someone else is willing to flag first. Such a thing would clash with one of the expected characteristics of the Trammel ruleset which is to prevent PKing between non-friends. Seeing a red kill a blue in Trammel, even if its supposed to be self-defense, isn't acceptable within that ruleset. Furthermore, it would be too easy for reds to get blues to flag and to functionally go PKing within tram this way.
- the question of the operation of healers would need to be examined. With no PKing in Trammel, it would follow that reds should be rezzable at any shrine in that environment. However, within Fel, they are currently trying to enforce difficulties upon reds who wish to get rezzed. I happen to be of the opinion that it should be just as easy for a red char to get rezzed as a blue one, but regardless, the concept of red chars in Trammel would need to be examined in this context. Reds in Fel could, after all, hit a moongate and go to Spirituality shrine for their rez if the shrine was accessible to them and worked.
- if such a thing were done, it would make sense for the restrictions preventing red characters from buying and selling with NPCs to be removed. IMO this should have happened already.
There could be other catches but that's all I see off the top of my head.
The arguments like "reds must be punished and inconvenienced!" are invalid both in this context and this time frame. If you wish to "punish" "red players" then you have to prevent all of the characters on that individual's account from entering Trammel if there is even one red on the account.
Tying it all to factions doesn't make sense to me.
No it wouldn't......lame idea.............next.
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Radun
Guest
I saw a red in Luna once... based on the reactions of everyone who saw him, I don't think any idea that involves reds leaving fel is going to go over very well with the majority of the player base. by majority, I mean: people who play tram ruleset exclusively.
I agree reds should not be forced to changes char to do shopping in blue land or PvM in blue land.
There is a few players left from the start of UO that feel that way. Most players who never leave blue land will not care as the reds can't attack them, Some will even learn, that most reds are not demons.
When I show up in NEW house on Siege or meet a young Siege player on the road, some of them are not use to reds and have hard to believe a red can be nice and helpfull. After a while on Siege, they learn, the color has nothing to do with the honor of the player behind.
I can understand the wish for that
Now the risk from following a red stranger to Fel is not more risky than follow a blue stranger who may have red friends on other side waiting.
The need for a different color in blue land is more to signal, that this PK can't attack you but you are welcome to invite him to a fight with attacking him.
Here I can't agree with you. Really what is the diff between two warring enemies fighting and and a blue fighting a red. It's the blues choice, noone is forcing him. Yes I know some will say, the reds will try to make him attack but there will be enough willing to fight the red if he is looking for a fight.
In most cases, he will just be out shopping or out PvM but for a red, that would be very boring without some risk.
Trammel was made because some players did not want the risk for being PK'ed. That will still be true. If a blue attack a red, he do consent to the fight and he is in no way PK'ed. You can say he try to PK the red but the red did consent to that when he went red.
Sure there could be a risk that a blue misclicked a red and attacked him but we do have the noto query.
I agree that there is no need for making it hard to rez for reds. There is the crim flag that stop them from rezzing, gating and recall, that should do.
Yes that is an old stupid thing too. I think it need to go too as long the red can be attacked anywhere
Yes there is one but not needed in your idea but is in mine. Blue need a little risk too if they choose to attack reds in blue land. As a group of blue can attack a single red and his red friends can't help him, any blue who flag to a red need to be orance to all reds for xx min, that count for looting a red too and healing a blue fighting a red.
I know you want reds to be safe in blue land but really it would be boring for the reds and annoying for some blue who want to pay back after being killed in Fel.
Punishment is wrong but limit a red in Felucca can make sense. Playing a red char in Felucca should not be easy as playing a blue. Red pets make sense and less access to insure items would make sense, maybe limited to 6-8 items.
Nor do it for me, it would destroy the game for alot non PvP players.
Ok Freja, maybe by this reply you may understand what I posted.
This topic is about letting Reds into Trammel. The faction/ilshenar suggestion is on top of the topic that I posted ("It would also be cool if ...")
We all agree that we think Reds should be allowed in all facets, bickering about extra/side stuff is pointless. I supported the guy who said faction fighting should happen everywhere.
I'm not going to argue with your idea and since we agree, I can leave it alone.
S
Salty Pete
Guest
That's because these aren't really "Fellies". Most of them are Trammel treasure farmers and RMT PvPers.
The people who actually play in Felucca (not just to do champ spawns, factions or PvP) play UO the same way people who only stay in Trammel do. They just have the added excitement of looking out for murderers and thieves. Not to mention the superior game play of not being able to simply run through every player and NPC that gets in your path.
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galefan2004
Guest
If people want to join factions then they join factions. Forcing them to join factions is dumb. I would love to see the entire murder count system scrapped for stupidity. Its never been a good system. Just because I killed the last 4 blues harrassing me in Felucca doesn't mean I shouldn't be able to kill the 5th one too.
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Radun
Guest
are you trying to kill fel?
blues wouldn't go there anymore because they can fight reds in tram (where they have the advantage of not being attacked first)
the reds will all leave fel to go to luna and other places to try to get people to flag on them.
that's all assuming you make reds continue to be freely attackable... which should always be the case. it's called retribution... you kill people who don't consent to fight, you are flagged as freely attackable. reds shouldn't be allowed to go take a break and banksit.
blues wouldn't go there anymore because they can fight reds in tram (where they have the advantage of not being attacked first)
the reds will all leave fel to go to luna and other places to try to get people to flag on them.
that's all assuming you make reds continue to be freely attackable... which should always be the case. it's called retribution... you kill people who don't consent to fight, you are flagged as freely attackable. reds shouldn't be allowed to go take a break and banksit.
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galefan2004
Guest
[*]
Not all reds work together. The only person you should flag to is the single red. That flag should last about 5 minutes not one hour. Healing and "buffing" (this game has buffs other than stupid bless?) should be completely allowable.
Yes until reds start harassing them and camping their hunting spots urging them to attack them so that they can kill them with 5 other friends. Then those blues would start paging but of course the GMs would pretty much ignore them. The reason they don't currently allow reds into Felucca is that they understand a great majority of the reds just got out of grade school or behave that way (or worse), and they don't really want them to start harassing Trammel players simply because they can.
With reds having access to Tram
In my suggestion, where everyone is in factions. The only place players can PvP with each other (outside of guild wars) is still Felucca.
Another poster suggested, where you still choose to join factions, no one can PvP outside of Felucca unless you are in factions or in a guild war.
Either way, both ideas make it so that you don't have to PvP in Trammel facets unless you choose to.
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galefan2004
Guest
I don't agree. I do most of my hunting in World of Warcraft due to the mouthy jerks that reside in Ultima Online. In World of Warcraft when you start harrassing someone or insulting them then your entire log is logged and you are more than often banned. Huge difference in the two games. WoW bans you and your credit cards for life, and UO bans you for 3 days.
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galefan2004
Guest
There are more blues NOW. This would remove the pentalty from being red almost entirely. You are going to tell me that people would still mine when they can go kill 100 miners (with no real pentalty) with a greater dragon when they are doing the mining for them. You are going to tell me people will actually hunt when they can take a greater dragon and kill the dude that just spent an hour hunting? You are going to tell me that all of the events that are going on aren't going to get greifed to high heavens?
If reds could enter all rulesets I honestly think you would see a major upturn in reds and a major downturn in blues.
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galefan2004
Guest
Thank you for starting out the rants...please start calling people idiots and everything else. Then make the arguement again that you don't bad mouth people in Felucca. Stupid people prove others points themselves with actions that are fitting of that persons point.
There are many reasons people go to Felucca. My mule doesn't consent when she goes there to mine. I don't really consent when I go there to PvM (outside of spawns). I don't really consent when I go there just to hang out and watch PvP from the gate. Get it out of your head that clicking on that gate is consenting unless you can prove everyone MADE THE DECISION that clicking the gate meant they were consenting to PvP. Yes its "implied" consent, but "implied" consent is a very grey area and in most cases doesn't even hold up.
Thats not what you are suggesting at all. What you are suggesting is that they can PvP in Trammel, but only if they are attacked. So, the incidents would end up like this. Imapkjack goes to find Ikillbalrons and harrasses him until he can't take it anymore. Ikillbalrons of course pages a GM, but we all know that gms do very little in this game and what they do do doesn't happen very quickly. After 10-20 minutes of being harrassed Ikillbalrons starts to think that his greater dragon that has been killing balrons since he got it could probably set this dude straight so he attacks this dude. This flags the dude to that red. Thats when Imastealther and Imastealthertoo jump out and either attack the dude that just attacked their guild mate (if thats allowable) or heal that dude till he kills the Ikillbalrons. You would be amazed how easily you can negate a greater dragon while killing a tamer if you actually have 1-2 people crosshealing you.
I agree...except that it is NOT consentual. It should be made consentual. Then the blue/red system should be scrapped in entirity. It should turn into O/C where you can pick to be O or C or niether (in which case you don't have to pvp).
I kill plenty. I just watch my counts and only kill greys and reds. I kill blues when I can take the count, and I leave them alone when I can't. If you can't be bothered to do the same and have to go red then I feel no sympathy. At the end of the night I still get to return to Trammel.
G
galefan2004
Guest
This reminds me of O/C. However, one of the reasons they dumped O/C in the first place was because of the complaints that came from non-pvpers that were tired of getting Brit bank spammed with O/C fights because people thought it would be cooler to fight where people were at. Now, O/C or Trammel sided factions or whatever would just never leave Luna bank, and people would complain about that.
I agree. I don't want to listen to all the foul mouthed junk that comes along with all the fel fights.
Concentual PvP in Trammel is fine. I'd like it if they put push through and other things back into Trammel. I'd also like to be able to come under friendly fire from guildmates. Area effects and the like. But maybe that's just me...
I agree with those that said killing reds in Trammel should pose a penalty of sorts... not sure about the whole hour long thing.... but a good 20 min. would be good. Seriously need to think about your actions...
On the other hand... I think being red and attacking folk ought to carry a penalty.... there should be a penalty for being a "murderer" .... More than just anyone and everyone can freely attack you.... (especially since this is what you wanted being a red anyway, that's hardly a punishment)... I think that if you get killed as a red there should be some sort of penalty other than just losing gold and getting looted. There should be some BIG drawback to becoming RED there should be some major drawback to going against virtue... not sure if you should get "fined" some large fee if killed while red and you would have to pay it back either with a check or by gaining some virtue skill points... until the fee is paid of course you would be unable to attack other players and of course other players would not be able to attack you... Perhaps you would be white or something until you got the debt paid...
I'd also like to see not exactly the bounty system of before but perhaps you could get something for killing a red like some scroll with the Red's name on it... Saying you killed them with the date or something.... Perhaps blues could turn these in for something... Perhaps you would get some neat title or something for them.... or maybe you would just want to display them.
But I think that Trammel should definatly remain Concentual PvP... if you want to be in a trammel type area with non-concentual PvP then you need to play on Siege not the regular shards.
Just a few thoughts on the subject.
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Radun
Guest
it would make sense if insurance was more expensive for murderers... because of their lifestyle choices 
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Revenant2
Guest
From a red's perspective who is using Trammel the way it would be intended for him, I tend to agree with you. The trouble I'm seeing is the flip side, where reds trick blues into attacking them or use flagging bugs to manage it. I don't feel like the state of the game could handle those situations well enough right now. Aside from the flagging problems right now, there would be too much opportunity for lame kills on uninformed, mistaken, tricked, or even newbie blues who don't understand what's going on.
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Revenant2
Guest
This perspective doesn't look up to date.
For players with a Fel presence, a red char is a means to a particular end. That same person has blues too. The reds and the blues are used differently.
That blue who seemed to ignore you in Fel usually has a player behind it whom, had they been using their red, would have pursued you and killed you like a fox after a rabbit.
If you wish to punish or inconvenience someone for maintaining a red-like lifestyle, the punishments must be applied account-wide, not simply to one character who happens to pull the trigger on a blue.
Having said that, IMO applying inconveniences to reds as it is today is out of date. It was worse in the past and has been slowly moving in the correct direction over time. Such inconveniences should be limited specifically to things which are expected to affect game balance in a bad way.
If I were to start up a private shard today, I would either allow reds in Tram, or I would move Bucs Den off of the server line and set it up as an evil-accepting town. Guards would function to prevent reds from attacking each other (or even blues from attacking reds) in this town. The reasons for that guard arrangement (despite the fact that yes, reds do like to kill one another) would take a good while to explain, but anyway. If Bucs became too crowded I'd make a second town with more room be like that also, perhaps Ocllo.
Regarding the smack talk: I kinda don't see that much of that happening in Tram if combat is not possible? Remember that the exact same PEOPLE are already standing all around you in Tram, they are just on their blue chars when they do it.
Impossible.
With Trammel, there is absolutely no reason to have this. Everything is in Trammel and the only people who are in Felucca are the ones that want PvP experienced in their gameplay.
There is no reason we should punish people for picking a side in a fantasy story. We already have the virtues for blues giving them many advantages (such as insta res 3x's per week or res fallen buddies at 80% hp) Being virtuous and receiving incentives for it are enough to keep the game in the spirit of Ultima.
I think this would be a great excuse to finally finish off the virtues.
This game has become a consensual PvP game. It's time we move forward and start expanding upon it.
...
This game has become a consensual PvP game. It's time we move forward and start expanding upon it.
Ok, then limit PvP to guild wars and Factions, remove "open" PvP in Fel, get rid of doubled rewards (resources, etc) in Fel and unify the facets' rulesets once and for all.
(Note that I do NOT advocate the above, I'm just playing off of the quoted statement to make a point)
One of the BIGGEST problems with all of these "Let my reds play in Tram" posts is that they want to CHANGE the rules in Trammel for their reds (Cannot attack, but can be attacked being the one in this thread specifically, but others have tried to turn Ilsh into a Fel facet, Doom into a Fel dungeon and so on).
The thing is that there HAVE been Trammel based rules that DO NOT BELONG in Fel. Instanced corpses should NEVER have been put into Fel. That I agree 100%.
But if we're going to disagree with Tram based rule changes in Fel, then let's NOT post Fel-based rule changes for Tram either.
This game has become a consensual PvP game. It's time we move forward and start expanding upon it.
Ok, then limit PvP to guild wars and Factions, remove "open" PvP in Fel, get rid of doubled rewards (resources, etc) in Fel and unify the facets' rulesets once and for all.
(Note that I do NOT advocate the above, I'm just playing off of the quoted statement to make a point)
One of the BIGGEST problems with all of these "Let my reds play in Tram" posts is that they want to CHANGE the rules in Trammel for their reds (Cannot attack, but can be attacked being the one in this thread specifically, but others have tried to turn Ilsh into a Fel facet, Doom into a Fel dungeon and so on).
The thing is that there HAVE been Trammel based rules that DO NOT BELONG in Fel. Instanced corpses should NEVER have been put into Fel. That I agree 100%.
But if we're going to disagree with Tram based rule changes in Fel, then let's NOT post Fel-based rule changes for Tram either.
Why do we have to limit PvP to guild wars and factions and change the rulesets at all?
That doesn't make it any more consensual at all. It only limits the amount of options given to the players who consent to PvP.
When I say move forward and expand upon it, I mean make it bigger, bad-er and better... not going overboard to the extreme you do because that's just lame.
Since you quoted me up there and posted, I can only assume this has to do with that. I never said any of that crap.
I just said let them in, no one can attack anyone... nothing else changes.
You may have forgotten, but you also proposed changing the way Ilshenar works.
If you want to play in Tram, you do have more than one character slot. If you can't restrain yourself from going perma-red on all seven, I don't think you'll ever be happy in Tram.
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While I don't mind Reds having access to other facests I do disagree with Forcing people to pick a Faction and the Power scroll Idea.
For me it would be Alacrity Scrolls dropping on all non-Fel Champ spawns, and while Reds and Blues are on non-Fel facets Murder Counts would not decay!
K
kennykilleduo
Guest
I made a proposal I thought we could discuss. I haven't seen much of it done though.
I do really like the alicrity scroll idea, however.
Not so much the murder counts don't decay.
*bites tongue*
Actually, when it comes to Ilshenar, it's always seemed to me like a good zone to run a "flip-to-Fel-ruleset event" since there's no housing and no runes to get in the way. Teleport everyone out to a safe Tram location, flip to a Fel ruleset for the duration, turn the Moongate red then at the end of the event teleport everyone out to a Fel location and turn the moongate blue again.
The only other piece that I think would be needed is to make red moongates inaccessible by default unless you activate an opt-in to make them work for you (to protect people from accidentally going into a PvP zone)
I seem to vaguely recall something like that. I also seem to think that one of the reasons they took it away is nobody was really doing it. I can't remember all the details.
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Eslake
Guest
*chuckles*
You consider being trapped in a corner by a Twig and a Sparrow to be superior game play?
Not being able to walk through another player or a demon or something along those lines I can understand. But why should I be unable to walk through a tile because a bird is flying through it? And how exactly can a Rat corner me?
Back on topic tho-
Reds should simply not be allowed into the rest of the world.
Allowing it would mean the only difference between murderers and everyone else was the color of thier name.
With the current system, those who aren't red actually consider their actions before they kill someone, because they don't want to be trapped in Fel.
Take that away and not only does the restriction on land-access vanish, but the reason for thinking twice about commiting murder.
-and thusly the argument that reds can be freely attacked is irrelevant-
I doubt they will do much for PvP for as long as the game is running.Black Rain said:
It has been made clear that only a very small percentage of players participate in PvP activity with any regularity. So dedicating Dev time to advancing it is simply not practical.
They care about the $, so they will continue to put their time into (often useless/cosmetic) changes that will effect the majority.
U
UOKaiser
Guest
I think the way they have it now is fine. Cant force a player to take up PVP if they dont want to just like you cant force a player to take up PVM if they dont want to. Reds in trammel i only see one reason for that is to try to force blues into hitting them so that they have more people to fight. I think everybody in fel know each other already that they get bored fighting among themselves.
I don't know the term RMT PvPers.
I don't find being a man on a horse pinned in by a rabbit and a rat to be superior game play.
Whose "most of those" btw...The Fellies who say they gate Tram but spam the boards wanting to come there on every character they have?
-Galen's player
I realise that some folks think they're suggesting the best for PvP here, but there's a conflict when we pull content from Fel to Tram and don't add new Fel content. Most of the content is already in Tram, not mirrored in Fel and yet we're discussing making that ratio worse. Crazy.
If we got more PvP into Tram, that's going to attract players from Fel into Tram. I doubt the players will go from Tram to Fel, because they can find the perks in Tram with far less risk. If we then remove even factions to Tram, that leaves what? Champ spawns and double resources. Oh and non con PvP and stealing, if you can find someone to kill or rob. Presuming those aren't also ported to Tram facets...
Are we really saying we don't want Fel anymore and we should all sell out to Tram? That's how it sounds. That's where these plans will lead us, because once Fel's population dwindles, why would EA keep it open? Though I'd rather it was killed swiftly than gradually ported to Tram in stages.
Wenchy
I actually don't like Fel, yet I am there a fair amount.
I have my own reasons for going, which are nobody's business. My closest friends might know....But honestly it doesn't come up a lot. They choose to not ask.
I win some, I lose some. I freely admit that I lose more than I win. There are lots of reasons for this, some of which have to do with me, and some of which don't. One of the reasons is that I'm targeted for being outspoken on these boards. I expect that. But then again, I was targeted long before I was particularly outspoken. I never once claimed to be very good. Galen won't even claim that in-character unless he's trying to intimidate someone for whatever reason.
I have noticed a strange thing. My opponents rarely acknowledge my victories (either pretending they didn't happen at all, or chalking them up to the speed hack I am sometimes alleged to run...though how I can run a speed hack and be as slow as I am is beyond me). (My personal favorite was one time when I fought 8 people in Despise, somehow dropped 4 before I died, and was told in ICQ that it was "a cheap shot." 8v1, and I'm taking a cheap shot? My second favorite was when I participated in a 2v2, won, and was accused of "ganking." 2 on 2 is ganking??)
Yet, they have the need to boast of their role in my losses on message boards and, occasionally in Trammel or other Trammel rules facets. I find the latter to be especially ironic.
Frankly I've never understood the whole message board PvP thing, even when I used to participate in it. In fact, I understood it less back then than I do now. I don't understand smack-talking either, though I'll admit to having done that too...Not terribly often though.
But anyway. There it is.
-Galen's player
S
Sindris
Guest
No thanks. Leave the reds in Fel to rot. Unless of course they are willing to give trammel champ spawns power scroll drops. If we can't have the drops on tram, they can bloody well stay in fel. Wouldn't want any carebear to rub off on them.
How about if we just leave the reds in fel where they choose to be by engaging in PvP.
Letting reds com to trammel is not going to help the game.
People will find a way to exploit the situation and target blues without them having to do anything, just like what has already happened in fel.
And forcing people to join anything will only further decrease our shrinking player base.
Letting reds com to trammel is not going to help the game.
People will find a way to exploit the situation and target blues without them having to do anything, just like what has already happened in fel.
And forcing people to join anything will only further decrease our shrinking player base.
C
Crow
Guest
If people who have red characters want to go to tram, they use soul stones, or keep certain characters blue.
As usual most of the bickering mid way through the thread gets very hard to read, but I think the original idea's of expanding factions and having spawns be affected by them is a great idea.
Other then that, I don't think reds need to go to tram.
Just add equal, more or at least SOME new content to fel, and more reason to go there.
As usual most of the bickering mid way through the thread gets very hard to read, but I think the original idea's of expanding factions and having spawns be affected by them is a great idea.
Other then that, I don't think reds need to go to tram.
Just add equal, more or at least SOME new content to fel, and more reason to go there.
i just want to be able to get a damn res in felucca.
T
Thrand Graywolf
Guest
The original spec we were shown when Trammel was in development had the pushthrough code take effect if you were combat flagged. They either couldn't figure out how to do it back then or forgot about it when they actually coded it. I wish they'd go ahead and put it in like they should have...most of the time I walk around stuff anyway out of habit.
Used to, you could. I don't remember when they removed area effect damage or exactly why, but it was a bummer. Direct damage still happens and there are some occasional oopsies...
...
Push through needs to be changed anyway (the bird example above being the best reason).
GBoom potions still damage you in Tram guilded or non-guilded.
Push through needs to be changed anyway (the bird example above being the best reason).
GBoom potions still damage you in Tram guilded or non-guilded.
I just had a brainstorm (or a brainfart depending on your views )
PvP is completely consentual and reds can go anywhere. When a blue enters fel or a red enters tram, every uninsured item you have earned there can be contested (Resources ETC). Someone can challenge you and if you choose not to fight, they get the items you earned there (Powerscrolls ETC). If you accept and win you get to keep your items. This continues to encourage pvp but doesn't force it.
)PvP is completely consentual and reds can go anywhere. When a blue enters fel or a red enters tram, every uninsured item you have earned there can be contested (Resources ETC). Someone can challenge you and if you choose not to fight, they get the items you earned there (Powerscrolls ETC). If you accept and win you get to keep your items. This continues to encourage pvp but doesn't force it.
M
monnie101
Guest
I have to agree most reds are foul mouthed jackasses who need to be whipped and tomatered in the town square.
Why? Just allowing reds to travel outside of fel does not mean that reds cn come to trammel and start killing people the trammel rules still apply the only difference is that reds are no longer limited to the felucca facet only.
I really think reds should be allowed in tram at least then I could own a house in tram and not have to log my red at an inn every time. Not to mention if you only have single account and you have a red on that account you need a house in fel or else the only thing you can access is your bank for storage and that sucks.
C
Coppelia
Guest
Whether reds are allowed or not in Trammel is not really my problem. But if they are, they must be like any other : not attackable. If they come there to PvE quietly with their mouth shut, it's ok. If they come to PvP, no. Even if they can't attack first.
A
Atlantian
Guest
If they let the reds in then it would be called "felluca"
- Status