If the Devs Announced That Scripting Was OK...

[ingsmsico]

Llewen,

is verbal harassment cheating, yes or no?

 

[AesSedai]

- Ingsmsico: do you consider "breaking the rules" of "a game" to be cheating, yes or no?

 

[ingsmsico]

What (they) want is everything, and they want it now.

wrong.

They don't want to work for anything

wrong.

they want to press a button, and everything is given to them.

wrong.

Then they want to go and bully and abuse the honest players that don't (use unapproved programs), and don't have what they have, because they are honest.

wrong.

I don't see much middle ground.

we are all fully aware of your radical position.

The game has already been made easy enough, it doesn't need to be made easier, and no matter how easy everything is made, (they) will still look for shortcuts, and for ways to (expedite mundane processes)

this is 100% true.

The only discussion they will understand is the inability to log in, and an email that starts with, "Your account has been banned for violating the Ultima Online Terms of Service..." Then maybe they will get the message.

that is not going to happen.

There are so many good people that have closed their accounts because because of the cheaters in UO.

not true.

Those are the players I want back.

you want players back that never existed? that's interesting....

I'm tired of spoilt little children with no patience, and no honour.

I'm tired of people who can't spell equating IRL scenarios with a video game.

I want to play UO with adults (of any age - there are children that are more qualified to be called "adults" than many that are years older than they are) that know the value of keeping your word, even in a game.

when have I ever lied? I assure you, my "word" is not in question.

/end grumpy old man rant

I agree with this statement wholeheartedly.

I want to play UO with people that know how to RP evil, without being evil themselves.

this is beyond my pay grade....

 

[ingsmsico]

- Ingsmsico: do you consider "breaking the rules" of "a game" to be cheating, yes or no?

not in all cases, no. for example, I can't see how verbal harassment is cheating.

 

[bumblefutz]

Wow, just over two-thirds of everyone who answered this either wouldn't care if scripting was legal or are already scripting themselves. Very telling.

 

[Maximus Neximus]

- Ingsmsico: do you consider "breaking the rules" of "a game" to be cheating, yes or no?

No. Breaking the rules is just that, breaking the rules. Verbal harassment in no way, shape or form gives you an unfair advantage, which is the basic definition of cheating.


I think the biggest issue is that a large amount of people do not want to spend what time they have playing the game working skills or mundane repetitive tasks. You have people who have played this game for 12 years! Do you want to spend your 7 hours per week (assuming job, family and other responsibilities) working up magery, fencing, etc for the 50th+ time? Probably not. Most people I've talked to use said program for training skills. Let's look at WHY people are using programs and see what can be done to make it where they aren't "needed".

Maybe they should look at vet rewards. Each year you gain skills a little faster than a younger account would. Bring back black rock training spots which is regularly monitored. I'm sure there's a lot of things that could be done. Focus on the cause, not the effect.

 

[AesSedai]

not in all cases, no. for example, I can't see how verbal harassment is cheating.

- Well the reason it is is quite simple: It is against the rules that we agreed to play by.
Quite simple.
Don't like the rule(s) that you have agreed to? Why did you agree to them? How about doing the right thing and: protest for a change -or- do not participate in something that you do not agree with (I do not like to say quit, yet why participate in something when you do not agree with the rules laid out in front of you that you have to sign in order to participate? Besides, avoiding verbal harassment is quite simple to adhere to, for the sake of enjoying a game, imo).

 

[ingsmsico]

Bring back black rock training spots which is regularly monitored. I'm sure there's a lot of things that could be done. Focus on the cause, not the effect.

this is a good idea. unattended macroing will always be "against the rules" but of course you get a minimal punishment. it is a good idea to offer accelerated skill gain in a populated area where UM'ing will be obvious. this way players who are not AFK get an advantage, and those who are AFK must do so isolated and at a very slow rate of gain.

the Dev's should punish repeated actions by slowing gains, not by banning people. this was the idea behind 8x8, but it never worked. there's no reason the current dev's can't come up with a better idea.

good post maximus

 

[ingsmsico]

- Well the reason it is is quite simple: It is against the rules that we agreed to play by.
Quite simple.
Don't like the rule(s) that you have agreed to? Why did you agree to them? How about doing the right thing and: protest for a change -or- do not participate in something that you do not agree with (I do not like to say quit, yet why participate in something when you do not agree with the rules laid out in front of you that you have to sign in order to participate? Besides, avoiding verbal harassment is quite simple to adhere to, for the sake of enjoying a game, imo).

you still did not answer the question, how is verbal harassment cheating?

 

[AesSedai]

No. Breaking the rules is just that, breaking the rules. Verbal harassment in no way, shape or form gives you an unfair advantage, which is the basic definition of cheating...

- Cheating. Please observe rule 1b of the intransitive verb and reconsider how you basically define cheating.

x: does that answer your question Ingsmsico? Quite simple.

 

[ingsmsico]

- Cheating. Please observe rule 1b of the intransitive verb and reconsider how you basically define cheating.

x: does that answer your question Ingsmsico? Quite simple.

again, how is verbal harassment cheating?

 

[Viquire]

I have NOT read all this thread. In the hopes the devs are reading I would make it known I would close four accts leaving just the main as I would not have any need for more than one active at a time anymore, with the possible exception of returning to playing the subscription shuffle for storage where needed.

 

[ingsmsico]

oh and since you have decided to start quoting dictionaries, here is OED

{dag}1. trans. To escheat, confiscate. Obs.
c1440 Promp. Parv. 73 Chetyn, confiscor, fisco.

2. To defraud; to deprive of by deceit.
1590 SHAKES. Com. Err. IV. iii. 79. 1594 {emem} Rich. III, I. i. 19 Cheated of Feature by dissembling Nature. 1616 BULLOKAR, Cheate, to cousin, to deceiue. 1679 PRIDEAUX Lett. (1875) 68, I am unwilling a rogue should cheat me of 5l. 1821 J. BAILLIE Metr. Leg., Lady G.B. ix. 6 The Scaffold of its prey to cheat. 1858 FROUDE Hist. Eng. IV. xviii. 71 If they were to be cheated of their right. 1875 JOWETT Plato (ed. 2) III. 328 You are lazy and mean to cheat us out of a whole chapter.

3. a. To deceive, impose upon, trick.
1634 MILTON Comus 155 To cheat the eye with blear illusion. a1680 BUTLER Rem. (1759) II. 52 All Fanatics cheat themselves with Words, mistaking them for Things. 1727 DE FOE Syst. Magic I. iii. (1840) 78 They would not by any means cheat and impose upon them. 1882 SHORTHOUSE J. Inglesant II. 386 Let us cheat ourselves, if it be a cheat, with this fancy.

b. To lead into (an action) by deception.
1856 DE QUINCEY Confess. 264 He..could not but find..himself cheated into cordial admiration, by the splendour of the verses. 1888 MRS. H. WARD R. Elsmere x, They had tried to cheat her into sleeping.

4. intr. a. To deal fraudulently, practise deceit.
1647 COWLEY Mistr., Discov. iv, He would cheat for his relief. 1732 BERKELEY Alciphr. ii. §20 Cleon..could cheat at cards. Mod. Accused of cheating in an examination.

b. to cheat on: to be sexually unfaithful to (one's spouse). Also without on. colloq. (chiefly U.S.).
1934 J. O'HARA Appointment in Samarra vi. 159 A woman married a louse that beat her and cheated on her. 1942 R. CHANDLER High Window xxx. 197 Eight months married and cheating on me with a piece of merchandise like that. 1946 E. O'NEILL Iceman Cometh II. 107 D'yuh suppose dat he did catch his wife cheatin'? I don't mean wid no iceman, but wid some guy. 1959 {emem} Hughie 28 Come to figger it, I'll bet he even cheated on his wife that way. 1967 ‘E. LINDALL’ Time too Soon vii. 81 He's only committing a normal infidelity. Tell me...who do you know who doesn't cheat, given the opportunity? 1972 WODEHOUSE Pearls, Girls, & Monty Bodkin iii. 47 My husband wouldn't have the nerve to cheat on me if you brought him all the girls in the Christmas number of Playboy asleep on a chair. 1979 R. JAFFE Class Reunion (1980) II. iv. 209 Husbands always told their wives to go out and buy things when they were cheating. 1986 New Yorker 7 Apr. 36/2 Vincent has never cheated on his wife.

5. trans. To beguile (weariness, tedium, etc.).
1712 STEELE Spect. No. 406 {page}6 No Lay unsung to cheat the tedious Way. 1813 SCOTT Rokeby I. iv, The tuneless rhyme With which the warder cheats the time. 1873 BLACK Pr. Thule xi. 172 Devices by which the ladies..were wont to cheat fatigue.

{dag}6. To obtain by cheating. Obs.
1727 SWIFT Art Polit. Lying Wks. 1755 III. I. 119 Making restitution of thousands he has cheated. 1737 POPE Hor. Epist. I. vi. 93 Something which for your honour they may cheat.

7. trans. and intr. Cinematogr. To suppress or adapt (part of a film) during editing so as to create a desired illusion. So cheated ppl. a., cheating vbl. n. Cf. CHEAT n.1 4c.
1929 I. MONTAGU tr. Pudovkin's On Film Technique vi. 192 Any movement or object outside the picture-frame or otherwise unremarked is said to be ‘cheated’. 1933 A. BRUNEL Filmcraft ii. 72 Get as close as you can in order to reveal your characters..in some detail... You can..‘cheat’ them nearer{em}that is, bring them closer together and photograph them at a slightly different angle from the previous scene. Ibid., You may have two characters by a settee in the centre foreground... For the second shot you can ‘cheat’ the settee nearer the door in order to facilitate or expedite your characters' progress. Ibid., ‘Cheating’ does not only apply to the position of characters, but to the position of the furniture and other objects in your sets. 1961 G. MILLERSON Telev. Production xviii. 347 The cheated substitute provides interesting possibilities. Here a series of representative parts are intercut to convey a composite impression.

 

[AesSedai]

There are so many good people that have closed their accounts because because of the cheaters in UO.

not true...

- I know, due to fact, that this is actually 100% true. All of my old clan has quit, and all but one of them quit specifically because of cheaters in UO.

 

[ingsmsico]

to be perfectly honest, this is the most convincing argument any of you have:

Devices by which the ladies..were wont to cheat fatigue.

 

[ingsmsico]

- I know, due to fact, that this is actually 100% true. All of my old clan has quit, and all but one of them quit specifically because of cheaters in UO.

I hereby deem you a liar.

 

[AesSedai]

- Aye, I get how you are trying to avoid admitting the simple truth that the breaking of rules is, quite simply: cheating.
And, cheating is bad.

 

[ingsmsico]

- Aye, I get how you are trying to avoid admitting the simple truth that the breaking of rules is, quite simply: cheating.
And, cheating is bad.

explain to me how verbal harassment is cheating

 

[AesSedai]

I hereby deem you a liar.

- Btw, deem me whatever you like. To each their own. Yet, I will send any developer all of the names of my friends that quit and they can look at their exit polls (back when that was happening in UO) and said Dev can then come forth and prove that I was quite simply stating fact. Beg a Dev to do that for you; and I will gladly indulge, you.

 

[AesSedai]

explain to me how verbal harassment is cheating

- Re-read the conversation we have shared in the past hour, and you should be able to understand that on your own. It is really quite simple.

 

[ingsmsico]

- Re-read the conversation we have shared in the past hour, and you should be able to understand that on your own. It is really quite simple.

let me me re-iterate: I don't believe you.

 

[Morgana LeFay (PoV)]

I've already said what I wanted to say about people making concessions on this issue. My questions/suggestions were met with almost complete silence. Why bother saying more, Morgana?

Sorry, that wasn't directed at you Tina...just a general question.

 

[ingsmsico]

Ever wonder if some of the past and current users of the illegal third party programs are afraid to publicly speak out, even just a little, against the use of such programs because they're afraid of what might happen to their computers, their UO accounts, and their PayPal accounts if they say something negative?

why would anything happen to someone's paypal account?

 

[ingsmsico]

I don't disagree. But let's see if anyone that's been advocating for a looting script can be bothered to take half an hour to type up a coherent and useful reply.

i've seen maybe 2 people talking about looting scripts... and they do not allow you to loot with 10 monsters attacking you. they open the pack and read what's in it quickly so you can run off knowing there's nothing good on the corpse. is that really a big deal?

 

[ingsmsico]

I'd like to see someone actually write up how they would actually want to see EA incorporate automated looting into UO so everyone can take advantage of it

EA does not have to do anything. it's already available.

 

[Llewen]

Ever wonder if some of the past and current users of the illegal third party programs are afraid to publicly speak out, even just a little, against the use of such programs because they're afraid of what might happen to their computers, their UO accounts, and their PayPal accounts if they say something negative?

Well, as much as I dislike "The-Program-Which-Shall-Not-Be-Named", I don't see any evidence of anything truly criminal going on there. We'd be naive to think that organized crime hasn't become involved in buying and selling MMO items and gold, and in creating and distributing the cheats for them, as well as stealing login information and looting accounts, but I don't see any evidence of that with "The-Program-Which-Shall-Not-Be-Named".

 

[Llewen]

I'm tired of people who can't spell equating IRL scenarios with a video game.

And I love it when self appointed grammar and spelling police, make themselves look like an idiot.

when have I ever lied? I assure you, my "word" is not in question.

Did I mention your name? Are you feeling guilty about something?

When you agree to a TOS before you commence an activity, and then break that TOS, you have broken your word.

As for the rest of your post, it's a "Did to!" "Did not!" discussion that I have no interest in participating in...

 

[ingsmsico]

And I love it when self appointed grammar and spelling police, make themselves look like an idiot.

granted.

When you agree to a TOS before you commence an activity, and then break that TOS, you have broken your word.

I think you understand that I both disagree with sections of the TOS as written, as well as some of your interpretations of sections of it.

 

[Balinor of Pk?]

Lots of features in UO at the moment started out as cheating... Now they are legal. Ever known anyone who got banned for "fast selling?" Now it's a feature of UOassist. Get over it. To get anything done, to get things you want done in UO, you have to cheat. You have to break rules to show the dev team that THIS IS WHAT THE MAJORITY WANTS. If you consider using a tool designed to MAKE PLAYING THE GAME EASIER a cheat, then you probly think stealing the United States from the Indians irregardless of signed treaties was LEGAL? Give up your argument already. Do you realize how many employees of the company you're petitioning to end cheating use the program themselves? I personally know that a few gms do. How many besides the ones I know of do you think do also?

 

[Tina Small]

Give up your argument already. Do you realize how many employees of the company you're petitioning to end cheating use the program themselves? I personally know that a few gms do. How many besides the ones I know of do you think do also?

Provide some sort of solid proof that doesn't violate Stratics' rules of conduct and I'll be out of your hair forever. I'll go right to the Account Management page and yank the billing information off every account I have and walk away from UO without a second glance.

 

[Petra Fyde]

This thread is getting way to close to 'how to cheat'. I think it's time we called it a day here.