Maybe I'm a bit more hopeful than others that some people will read carefully and understand, lol.
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E
ElRay
Guest
I dont know Viper, After his 15th Wall of Text Critikal!! of saying nothing, I thought it would be obvious.....hey even take a look at your old poll. See his SAME trollish responses there too.
I told you 1999 and played until it was discontinued. So you should be fully aware the system is perfectly safe and still chose negative comments. Lovely.
Not at all. I said i was open for any ideas to make 2 playstyles co-exist but you've had 0 constructive statements from the beginning.
The real reason you're against this finally comes out.
Who are you to speak out against enhancing our gameplay simply because you feel you shouldn't even see a hint of pvp?
V
Vaen Swiftar
Guest
This thread is hilarious.
No reason O/C can't be in Tram and Fel, just like guild wars. No reason at all. Don't want to participate? Don't. Easy as that. Seems that some people in this thread just like to hear their own voice echoing in the halls as if they are, for some reason or another, more important than everyone else.
No reason O/C can't be in Tram and Fel, just like guild wars. No reason at all. Don't want to participate? Don't. Easy as that. Seems that some people in this thread just like to hear their own voice echoing in the halls as if they are, for some reason or another, more important than everyone else.
All players get a pbd on seige it is the menu that you click yourself
I dislike the part of 1 charactor only that will stop me frmo being self sufficient on seige
Connections are part of the reason
Why do people oppose this? You're a trammie, you don't want to pvp, don't join either order or chaos. Oh my god, you miss out on nothing. Big whoop. You want to pvp, you like being on your toes, you don't want to have to run around fel to find a mark, you like the danger, you join order/chaos, you have the danger, it's not forced on anyone. a PvP on/off switch completely ruins the purpose. You don't have to join order/chaos.
Another question, Enigma, why are you so opposed to something that doesn't effect you if you don't want it to? Please don't troll, arueging against ideas that in all probibility don't effect you... Hell I probably wont even use this system if it's reimplemented, but I can understand why someone would want it, and it's a valid reason.
Another question, Enigma, why are you so opposed to something that doesn't effect you if you don't want it to? Please don't troll, arueging against ideas that in all probibility don't effect you... Hell I probably wont even use this system if it's reimplemented, but I can understand why someone would want it, and it's a valid reason.
E
ElRay
Guest
I stand corrected.
I am going to approach this argument from a completely different manner then I have seen and to me it’s the only argument that makes sense in restoring Order/Chaos:
First off Chaos did not win the war. Blackthorn who founded and led the Chaos Guard was defeated in the battle of Yew. A battle which was led by Queen Dawn long before she had any aspirations of leading the kingdom.
Order did not win either, Lord British in learning about the death of his long time friend and political rival declared the war over and sought to find a path of balance. Thus the war ended and the Order/Chaos system came to an end in the game.
Few know what the war is even about these days; why two good friends would form opposing Philosophical Knighthoods to do battle? I have not seen a single post that addresses the real reason behind the war or anyone who has expressed an understanding about what it means to be either a Knight of Order or an Agent of Chaos.
In summary, Lord British made a pledge to the Timelord to unify the shardal worlds of the multiverse with the True Universe and founded the Virtue Guard - which was later renamed the Order Guard- to accomplish this quest. Lord Blackthorn opposed this quest and formed the Chaos Guard to counter the efforts of the Order Guard. The arguments on both sides are deep and both can be seen as good or evil, depending on your outlook (and worthy of a completely new thread).
If Queen Dawn were to renew the pledge to the Timelord and respected Lord British's past laws to allow the people of Britannia to oppose the Quest of Order by joining the Chaos Guard then it makes sense for the system to be reinstated.
The Quest of Order encompasses all the facets of the shardal worlds as would Chaos's opposition to that Quest thus battle could and should be able to occur anywhere in any of the lands among those chosing to participate.
Although I am known today as the long time leader of the True Britannian Faction on Great Lakes, I was for much longer the leading figure of Order. Although the Order/Chaos system is not active in game, we still refer to our guild as an Order Guild, teach the old ways and seek to fulfill Lord British's Quest of Unity.
I do hope Lady Dawn renews the Quest of Order and likewise allows the people of Britannia who do not agree with the Quest to legally oppose the effort by taking up arms again. For this is the most important Quest for all Britannia's in all shards as well as those living unaware in the True Universe. It is what the fate of all lives and worlds hinge and [OC] the basis for the game we play.
As a long time Order/Chaos participant and faction player I do have thoughts on changes that might help some of the concerns people have such as detracting from factions, turning events into kill fests, etc, but it’s late and I will leave that for another post.
First off Chaos did not win the war. Blackthorn who founded and led the Chaos Guard was defeated in the battle of Yew. A battle which was led by Queen Dawn long before she had any aspirations of leading the kingdom.
Order did not win either, Lord British in learning about the death of his long time friend and political rival declared the war over and sought to find a path of balance. Thus the war ended and the Order/Chaos system came to an end in the game.
Few know what the war is even about these days; why two good friends would form opposing Philosophical Knighthoods to do battle? I have not seen a single post that addresses the real reason behind the war or anyone who has expressed an understanding about what it means to be either a Knight of Order or an Agent of Chaos.
In summary, Lord British made a pledge to the Timelord to unify the shardal worlds of the multiverse with the True Universe and founded the Virtue Guard - which was later renamed the Order Guard- to accomplish this quest. Lord Blackthorn opposed this quest and formed the Chaos Guard to counter the efforts of the Order Guard. The arguments on both sides are deep and both can be seen as good or evil, depending on your outlook (and worthy of a completely new thread).
If Queen Dawn were to renew the pledge to the Timelord and respected Lord British's past laws to allow the people of Britannia to oppose the Quest of Order by joining the Chaos Guard then it makes sense for the system to be reinstated.
The Quest of Order encompasses all the facets of the shardal worlds as would Chaos's opposition to that Quest thus battle could and should be able to occur anywhere in any of the lands among those chosing to participate.
Although I am known today as the long time leader of the True Britannian Faction on Great Lakes, I was for much longer the leading figure of Order. Although the Order/Chaos system is not active in game, we still refer to our guild as an Order Guild, teach the old ways and seek to fulfill Lord British's Quest of Unity.
I do hope Lady Dawn renews the Quest of Order and likewise allows the people of Britannia who do not agree with the Quest to legally oppose the effort by taking up arms again. For this is the most important Quest for all Britannia's in all shards as well as those living unaware in the True Universe. It is what the fate of all lives and worlds hinge and [OC] the basis for the game we play.
As a long time Order/Chaos participant and faction player I do have thoughts on changes that might help some of the concerns people have such as detracting from factions, turning events into kill fests, etc, but it’s late and I will leave that for another post.
H
Heartseeker
Guest
Agreed & Signed/
I also miss chaos & order guilds back when I started I played baja and I stayed around moonglow because that's where low level training happened it was just kind of a fact that the graveyard was perfect and it still bothers me that moonglow is deserted no matter what shard. Back on point I had joined an order guild and In moonglow there was a guild called The Death Jesters at the first house south of glow in that coveted plot at the time it was a sandstone.
It seems they were hardcore requiring at least a 3 x gm at the time to join I was still new and had about a 3 x master so i spent most of my time running when I wasn't training.
The farming of order shields was funny too.
It seems they were hardcore requiring at least a 3 x gm at the time to join I was still new and had about a 3 x master so i spent most of my time running when I wasn't training.
The farming of order shields was funny too.
M
Mattitracks
Guest
What is your problem man? You're acting like a real jerk. What problem could you possibly have with Order/Chaos being returned to UO? Allowing it in trammel would not effect you in the least bit. It's not opening trammel style facets up to pk'ing, everyone involved would do so by choice. Are you afraid of other players seeing it and becoming interested in pvp, thus building an even stronger player base for that particular playstyle? I know that's doubtful, but your objection to this possible change seems to lack any logic whatsoever.I have been playing the game since the begining and that was tried and dee4med a huge failure.
The way it is supposed to be played NOW is that if you want to PvP then go to Siege or Felluca, if you don't want to PvP then stay the heck out of there.
Now then why do you so desperately want to PvP amongst those that have CHOSEN AND CONTINUE TO CHOOSE to not PvP.
Are you lonely because everyone but you choose to NOT PvP?
Do you want to impress those that have chosen to NOT PvP?
What is your obsession with PvPing in Trammel? Lets us guess your reply. Well Trammel should never have been made.
OH I SEE, so why don't you go to Siege PO.?
Lastly, if by some small chance later on in this thread you changed your attitude than great. I just choose to stop reading after your above quote. Whenever I see a post such as this, people such as yourself troll it, in what almost seems an organized attempt to derail the topic at hand.
You have to join Order/Chaos. It's not like you can just be killed. I would love to have it back also. It was tons of fun, much better then factions.for who, you or the other?
ah,i see, you defend those "risk vs. reward" thing.......
true PvP player could kill easy the wounded dragon killer.....
No thx,pls stay hidden in fel or siege
Tom
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ElRay
Guest
Amen Tom,
Could we possibly get the devs to comment on reimplementing Order/Chaos back?? It would be much appreciated.
M
Mijac_Chmon
Guest
Stupid Trammie post.I have been playing the game since the begining and that was tried and dee4med a huge failure.
The way it is supposed to be played NOW is that if you want to PvP then go to Siege or Felluca, if you don't want to PvP then stay the heck out of there.
Now then why do you so desperately want to PvP amongst those that have CHOSEN AND CONTINUE TO CHOOSE to not PvP.
Are you lonely because everyone but you choose to NOT PvP?
Do you want to impress those that have chosen to NOT PvP?
What is your obsession with PvPing in Trammel? Lets us guess your reply. Well Trammel should never have been made.
OH I SEE, so why don't you go to Siege PO.?
The point of being in Trammel is that it's a non-PvP facet. There's a sense of security, even though you know you're marked.
The point of Order/Chaos in Trammel is so that you can go about your normal safe Tram business with your unmarked friends etc but you have a target on your back.
24 hours a day, 7 days a week, even in the midst of the safety of Tram, you've put a target on yourself.
That's the thrill of it.
In no way does this force PvP on to anyone. Those who haven't voluntarily joined cannot be targeted. It in no way threatens the safety of Tram.
As such, there should be no one complaining about Tram becoming a PvP facet, or complaining that PvP should be kept in Fel.
Bring on Order/Chaos, I say!
B
Brucie Kibbutz
Guest
Enigma's statements completely confuse me. Both because their illogically written and illogically based.
What is the problem enigma? If you don't want to be part of Order/Chaos, do not join it, holy crap that is hard.
However, we (everyone else in this thread) would like to be part of Order/Chaos, and I promise we won't try to PK you in trammel, as long as you don't join Order/Chaos...WHICH YOU DO NOT HAVE TO DO.
How many times and how many different people have to tell you that before you realize it.
What is the problem enigma? If you don't want to be part of Order/Chaos, do not join it, holy crap that is hard.
However, we (everyone else in this thread) would like to be part of Order/Chaos, and I promise we won't try to PK you in trammel, as long as you don't join Order/Chaos...WHICH YOU DO NOT HAVE TO DO.
How many times and how many different people have to tell you that before you realize it.
N
northwoodschopper
Guest
i still just see this as a request to bring house fighting to luna. 
anyways, wasn't order and chaos more or less just unrestricted guild warfare? if i remember correctly, you had to be in a guild to be order/chaos, and it was just an extension of guild warfare with dedicated shields (which were awesome from the beginning, and then became worthless around renaissance). if this is the case, perhaps the guildmaster should have an option to set the guild as unrestricted, in which case the guild can freely engage in pvp with other unrestricted guilds. or maybe existing guilds require a majority vote.
of course, this would require a lot of safety checks so that scammers wouldn't dupe other players into vulnerability. this is probably the main reason there won't ever be another system in place for tram.
i'd rather have the devs develop factions with more robustness, and also improve overall pvp balance and features in fel, over adding unrestricted pvp in tram, which we have guld warfare as an option already.
anyways, wasn't order and chaos more or less just unrestricted guild warfare? if i remember correctly, you had to be in a guild to be order/chaos, and it was just an extension of guild warfare with dedicated shields (which were awesome from the beginning, and then became worthless around renaissance). if this is the case, perhaps the guildmaster should have an option to set the guild as unrestricted, in which case the guild can freely engage in pvp with other unrestricted guilds. or maybe existing guilds require a majority vote.
of course, this would require a lot of safety checks so that scammers wouldn't dupe other players into vulnerability. this is probably the main reason there won't ever be another system in place for tram.
i'd rather have the devs develop factions with more robustness, and also improve overall pvp balance and features in fel, over adding unrestricted pvp in tram, which we have guld warfare as an option already.
First of all Luna blows no matter what shard you're on.i still just see this as a request to bring house fighting to luna.
anyways, wasn't order and chaos more or less just unrestricted guild warfare? if i remember correctly, you had to be in a guild to be order/chaos, and it was just an extension of guild warfare with dedicated shields (which were awesome from the beginning, and then became worthless around renaissance). if this is the case, perhaps the guildmaster should have an option to set the guild as unrestricted, in which case the guild can freely engage in pvp with other unrestricted guilds. or maybe existing guilds require a majority vote.
of course, this would require a lot of safety checks so that scammers wouldn't dupe other players into vulnerability. this is probably the main reason there won't ever be another system in place for tram.
i'd rather have the devs develop factions with more robustness, and also improve overall pvp balance and features in fel, over adding unrestricted pvp in tram, which we have guld warfare as an option already.
Second you can't scam people into an order or chaos guild as they have a tag on them that can't be turned off. If I remember they were [chaos] or [order] and they always showed even without guild title shown.
As for joining a guild then it becoming order or chaos. You should hang around people before you join there guild and get to know them and if you don't do that you can always leave the guild and you will lose the order or chaos tag immediately it's not like factions.
N
northwoodschopper
Guest
all i'm saying is that if there's any chance for that sort of scam, this will be bust. doesn't matter if you think players should have enough common sense.
also, wasn't one of the requirements for order/chaos was to be a lord/lady too? i sort of remember that require was dropped later on once notoriety was changed, but that could be an interesting aspect to bring back. though i imagine strict pvpers protesting about the fame-farming requirement.
Why do you even bring up scamming with the O/C idea? You do know that guilds by themselves can scam people who join them the way it is now, right?
There are people out there who join others to their guild, kill them, loot them and repeat until they leave the guild. I fail to see how the whole O/C idea would bring even worse scamming than what people are already doing.
lol @ wikken, dimebag, and several others
Since its obvious EA doesnt care, Im not even going to harp on the fact that youve been banned on cheating accounts, have posted screenies with cheat programs, were a main distributor of both pvp, and heartwood scripts, and have lately been running with the trashiest TB burners on GL. There is no avoiding playing with cheats in UO. It has infested every guild and every corner of the game. I officialy dont care anymore. I guess its bout time to fire up the speeder and start modding my client files.
dont forget racial/ethnic slurs
I will not let you sully my name! Not once have I been seen playing with RiD!
The rest of your claims are kinda cute.
I dont need to sully your name. You did that yourself. Its not my fault noone gave a crap when you had your little fit in vent and quit. Your just bitter and in denial. I dont deny there are people in my guild that speedhack. All ive ever wanted was for action and or a fix be implemented. If it screws over someone speedhacking in my guild im all for it if it takes care of everyone else too. Thats not hypocrisy, its simply what needs to be done. As for raical/ethnic slurs are you actually bragging that you may have been banned for that too?
There was no fit, people were crying in TDR because Dubar wouldn't put them in the 2.0 faction tag (Thalidar). Some of those same whiners tried killing 2.0, and 2.0 of course killed them because they are better players. Then I was kicked out of TDR.
Stop trying to pull a Malador.
There is no bitterness here my little candy cane.
Edit - Get over me not being part of your guild man. It's been how long??
B
Brucie Kibbutz
Guest
Lynk, you need to take your trash talk to the individual server's PVP trash talk threads. You completely derailed this thing and are going to get it locked soon, before a Dev can get in her and comment on it (likely never, but I still hope). If you want to get the thread deleted then just do it, you're a mod.
He commented on wanting Order/Chaos back and you chime in with this garbage? You love to trash talk, great, but this isn't the thread to do it in. Be a man, act like one.
Fine, YOU choose to make your post about POSTERS ......
You can keep right on telling and you can feel good about yourself all the while sticking your collective heads up or down in some .... opening, so you do not need to deal with the negative aspects of this total bogus proposal that has one purpose. To change the Trammel Rules, to be Felucca rules.
Yes, yes, yes, I know you wont ever under any circumstance respond to any thing that has "Felucca is empty so why not PvP there" and instead reply with yet another Brilliant Day Care Psycho Babble pos about "Oh, Care Bear, We wont PK you unless you get in our way OR are stupid enough to be some event that we guarantee we will disrupt no matter who organized it and if NON O/C people die, then CRAP ALL THE BETTER WE GOT TO PK NON O/C JERKS IN TRAMMEL AND MAYBE GOT TO TEACH THEM TO BE A MAN".
Pathetic losers that refuse or are scared out of your skin, to PvP in Felucca, were the REAL PvP/PKRs reside. What is it the Trees without leaves and tombstones that scare you crapless? Hint there, you can turn that stuff off.
And as for your inability to comprehend things, yes that is normal for you to therefore NOT SEE ANY LOGIC! Like it is my problem that you cant understand anything...that you don't want to understand
They should have moved this to the Rants or Off Topic forums as that is all this is, just the bi-monthly Rant To Change the Trammel Rule Set.
You seem to think I have a problem, because your head is stuck so far into some hole, for so long, that you have become clueless. That is about right for your kind of LMAO Logic.
Next, you will be all over how Tamers and Greater Dragons are WAY TO POWERFUL FOR YOU TO PK IN ONE HIT.
OR
YOUR NEW PET TOY, THE VOLLEM IS A ONE HIT KILLER AND NO PvP IS POSSIBLE. LMAO
The only stupid post is yours to the extent that
You did not read the many people pointing out the Exploit YOU WANT TO INTRODUCE SO YOU CAN DISRUPT SCHEDULED / PLANNED EVENTS.
OR
Like your one voice mantra, you can't post anything but how NO ONE CAN BE IMPACTED BY YOUR PROPOSAL, either because you a) Have your head stuck some where b) Don't have two brain cells that will communicate with each other c) Hope that by denying it, you can continue to be able to say it and have some one believe it.
B
Brucie Kibbutz
Guest
I'll do this the best I can enigma, I'm working my way from the bottom up, since I am scrolling up.Fine, YOU choose to make your post about POSTERS ......
You can keep right on telling and you can feel good about yourself all the while sticking your collective heads up or down in some .... opening, so you do not need to deal with the negative aspects of this total bogus proposal that has one purpose. To change the Trammel Rules, to be Felucca rules.
Yes, yes, yes, I know you wont ever under any circumstance respond to any thing that has "Felucca is empty so why not PvP there" and instead reply with yet another Brilliant Day Care Psycho Babble pos about "Oh, Care Bear, We wont PK you unless you get in our way OR are stupid enough to be some event that we guarantee we will disrupt no matter who organized it and if NON O/C people die, then CRAP ALL THE BETTER WE GOT TO PK NON O/C JERKS IN TRAMMEL AND MAYBE GOT TO TEACH THEM TO BE A MAN".
Pathetic losers that refuse or are scared out of your skin, to PvP in Felucca, were the REAL PvP/PKRs reside. What is it the Trees without leaves and tombstones that scare you crapless? Hint there, you can turn that stuff off.
And as for your inability to comprehend things, yes that is normal for you to therefore NOT SEE ANY LOGIC! Like it is my problem that you cant understand anything...that you don't want to understand
They should have moved this to the Rants or Off Topic forums as that is all this is, just the bi-monthly Rant To Change the Trammel Rule Set.
You seem to think I have a problem, because your head is stuck so far into some hole, for so long, that you have become clueless. That is about right for your kind of LMAO Logic.
Next, you will be all over how Tamers and Greater Dragons are WAY TO POWERFUL FOR YOU TO PK IN ONE HIT.
OR
YOUR NEW PET TOY, THE VOLLEM IS A ONE HIT KILLER AND NO PvP IS POSSIBLE. LMAO
1) I have never in any post I have ever made complained about GD or Vollems, so this point is just a personal attack, something you advocate so much against in your opening statement.
2) Telling me to put my head up something, again a personal attack that is something you clearly are a strong advocate against.
3) This is not a rant nor is it off-topic. Wikipedia what the definitions of those are please. A rant would be asking for a nerf (which we did not do) and off-topic would be anything not dealing with UO, which Order/Chaos, last I checked, dealt with UO.
4) Telling us to fight in Felucca, fair enough, but the point of Order/Chaos is the negation of Felucca. We want to be open to a fight anywhere in the land (e.g. in WoW you can flag yourself for PvP and be open to attack anywhere in the land). My personal point is that I personally miss Order/Chaos fights, which were originally in Trammel before they nixed Order/Chaos. Additionally, there is no one in Felucca outside of a few spawns and the Yew Moongate during prime time, please go to Felucca sometime, you would see this.
5) We want the rules of Trammel changed? Where enigma, where did we say this? Order/Chaos existed in Trammel before they nixxed it, you do realize this, right? How are we changing ANYTHING? We are asking for something to be RE-ACTIVATED, not CHANGED.
Finally, my personal question is, why are you against this? Please explain it to me? If you are not in Order/Chaos you can not be attacked. How does this affect you enigma? In what way does 2 people being in Order/Chaos fighting each other in a Trammel city affect third parties such as yourself? Please explain this to me logically as I have done so for you.
You know, on Sonoma there is currently a nice building in guild wars. Recently in Luna we are seeing guilds fight each other. No one is affected but those participating in the war. I'm sure the same is going on in some other shards.
This is what O/C will be like, however it will just be a bit bigger
This is what O/C will be like, however it will just be a bit bigger
Seeing as to how you like to define things, that one would think are obvious ...
CHANGE: to make the form, nature, content, future course, etc., of (something) different from what it is
Lets make 5 so you can't ignore the obvious ...
Explain to the audience what the CURRENT Trammel Rule Set is, in regards to allowing Order vs Chaos. Once you manage to do that, then explain how your NOT SEEKING A CHANGE TO THE TRAMMEL RULE SET.
Your proposal requires a change to the Trammel Rule Set.
Now lets go to 4 ...
I go to Felucca all the time, YOU forgot the Resource Scripters in your list. I see them all the time there. Sounds to me like I SPEND A LOT MORE TIME THERE THAN YOU DO. I tame Greater Dragons out of Felucca Destard because there are twice as many and that increases the chance of finding a good one. I repeat I spend a LOT of time in Felucca. I KNOW IT IS EMPTY.
So you admit that Felucca is empty, unused, of no PvP value. An entire facet, completely empty, ready to fulfill your wildest dreams and fantasies.
You want to leave it that way, TOTALY UNUSED FOR PvP and .... Drum Roll .... CHANGE The Trammel Rule Set to allow you to PvP and DISRUPT Server wide events.
Make that catering to you, make any kind of rational or reasonable sense.
Doesn't it just make you want to be a parent, were One Kid has all the toys they have asked for and now are asking for the other kids toys as well. While their toys, are in the corner were they threw them with disdain, lack of interest, and got a twinkle in their eye seeing the other kids toys and just how much fun they are having.
I just might need to log back into Everquest and get Fippies monologue. It goes something like this,
"You have spoiled your own lands, but you will not spoil our lands" That is most certainly a paraphrase but it should communicate the point. Go to Felucca and make PvP a desirable aspect of UO FOR ALL (well almost all). In short, go make the Spoiled PvP Lands of Felucca, a desirable place to play. You (no not YOU) spoiled it, ruined it, made it empty. NOW FIX IT.
PS: I did NOT tell you to stick your head somewhere, I said you HAD IT stuck somewhere. You chose to persistently ignore or make light of or minimize any dissension to your proposal. In short, if it isn't your party line it has ZERO/NO value. An interesting form of argument but totally pointless when trying to make ones case.
B
Brucie Kibbutz
Guest
And yet you ignore my main question to you?Seeing as to how you like to define things, that one would think are obvious ...
CHANGE: to make the form, nature, content, future course, etc., of (something) different from what it is
Lets make 5 so you can't ignore the obvious ...
Explain to the audience what the CURRENT Trammel Rule Set is, in regards to allowing Order vs Chaos. Once you manage to do that, then explain how your NOT SEEKING A CHANGE TO THE TRAMMEL RULE SET.
Your proposal requires a change to the Trammel Rule Set.
Now lets go to 4 ...
I go to Felucca all the time, YOU forgot the Resource Scripters in your list. I see them all the time there. Sounds to me like I SPEND A LOT MORE TIME THERE THAN YOU DO. I tame Greater Dragons out of Felucca Destard because there are twice as many and that increases the chance of finding a good one. I repeat I spend a LOT of time in Felucca. I KNOW IT IS EMPTY.
So you admit that Felucca is empty, unused, of no PvP value. An entire facet, completely empty, ready to fulfill your wildest dreams and fantasies.
You want to leave it that way, TOTALY UNUSED FOR PvP and .... Drum Roll .... CHANGE The Trammel Rule Set to allow you to PvP and DISRUPT Server wide events.
Make that catering to you, make any kind of rational or reasonable sense.
Doesn't it just make you want to be a parent, were One Kid has all the toys they have asked for and now are asking for the other kids toys as well.
I just might need to log back into Everquest and get Fippies monologue. It goes something like this,
"You have spoiled your own lands, but you will not spoil our lands" That is most certainly a paraphrase but it should communicate the point. Go to Felucca and make PvP a desirable aspect of UO FOR ALL (well almost all). In short, go make the Spoiled PvP Lands of Felucca, a desirable place to play. You (no not YOU) spoiled it, ruined it, made it empty. NOW FIX IT.
PS: I did NOT tell you to stick your head somewhere, I said you HAD IT stuck somewhere. You chose to persistently ignore or make light of or minimize any dissension to your proposal. In short, if it isn't your party line it has ZERO/NO value. An interesting form of argument but totally pointless when trying to make ones case.
Finally, my personal question is, why are you against this? Please explain it to me? If you are not in Order/Chaos you can not be attacked. How does this affect you enigma? In what way does 2 people being in Order/Chaos fighting each other in a Trammel city affect third parties such as yourself? Please explain this to me logically as I have done so for you.
This was my main point.
You additionally ignored all of my other points which completely dispelled all of your points, you chose to rebuttal: your statement about my head and that Felucca is not dead, since there are indeed unattended scripters there. These are not defensing players, these are cheaters, and I do take care of them when I find them.
Please break my question down into pieces, and rebuttal it, then we can stay ON topic, and not argue over who goes to Felucca more and where peoples heads are or need to go.
Your question was answered. You chose to not recognize it hardly constitutes a problem on my part.
You ignoring things and claiming that your being ignored again hardly constitutes a problem on my part.
You claiming that NO ONE has explained to YOU how the proposal impacts other that are NOT in O/C, again, hardly constitutes a problem on mine or the others that have pointed them out.
In short, NO, you made the proposal, you said there was no impact to anyone, that it was the perfect, victimless crime. IT WAS 100% PROVEN TO BE UNTRUE. It is NOT my problem that YOU chose to LEAVE AN ISSUE OPEN.
And please do NOT try to pull the OP's lame butt cynical solution of, "Tsk Tsk, oh My, We will have the Trammel Rule Set changed so that some little land in Trammel will be NO PvP". How absolutly condescending and you think you win friends and influence others with cynicism and condescension.
Hum, one would think, that reasonably and rationally, what I or you think does NOT matter in this venue. I know that what you say you think does not matter to me in the least. I do not say that to minimize or insult you. I state it as the most obvious posture as there is NO WAY I can verify anything you say, in an anonymous environment AND ESPECIALLY were you .... one can create a dozen stratic accounts and pretend to be the entire posting community.
But hey, lets have some fun with you.
Ok, it has been used as a rational for allowing O/C in Trammel. It being waring Guilds.
Now then, because O/C is NOT in Trammel, then by your rational, waring guilds should be removed from Trammel. I mean, that is only reasonable.
Now then, I have said many times, in many different threads, They should have created PvP only Shards and NON PvP shards.
Short of that, they should have had the ability to MOVE to Trammel open for a few weeks, a month at the most then PERMANENTLY isolated each facet, completely mirroring each facet with all expansions, were the only difference was one was PvP and the other was NON PvP.
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Brucie Kibbutz
Guest
Please, dissect my question point for point and answer it, you can go off topic as much as you like, but you can't avoid a direct question forever.
Finally, my personal question is, why are you against this? Please explain it to me? If you are not in Order/Chaos you can not be attacked. How does this affect you enigma? In what way does 2 people being in Order/Chaos fighting each other in a Trammel city affect third parties such as yourself? Please explain this to me logically as I have done so for you.
I have dissected your questions to me, please do the same in return.
I would like to add in another one of these: Order/Chaos existed in Trammel already, how does that constitute a rule change?
O/C was in Trammel. But yes, at this moment O/C isn't in Trammel, in fact it isn't even in Fel either. It is no longer in this game.
But really I am really wondering what you think of warring guilds fighting in Trammel. Unless you're insinuating that you don't like them in that post, I didn't see a very clear answer.
Oh, ok, we are into just geting post counts.
My reply is, I answered everything and you chose to ignore it. AND AND AND you also chose to ignore all the issues so you didn't reply to anything.
Your turn.
(I have a higher post count than you so, if you don't mind I am going to just let you catch up)
Yes that is right, it requires a change to the Trammel Rule Set to turn it back on. Good for you.
And the answer was 100% crystal clear in the answer I gave. So you can feel free to ...
.... insinuate that I don't like them all you want. I am confident the audience has seen the answer.I will expand a bit, only because it substantiates a bit more why this is a BAD proposal, let alone a BAD analogy.
Order and Chaos have NO Guild Leader. Guilds DO HAVE Guild Leaders.
Order and Chaos have NO ACCOUNTABILITY FOR THE MEMBERS ACTIONS. Guilds DO HAVE ACCOUNTABILITY FOR ITS MEMBERS OR THE GUILD IS HELD ACCOUNTABLE.
We shall leave it at just those two as they are consistent with the problems that O/C in Trammel will cause.
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Brucie Kibbutz
Guest
Appreciate the bump, I don't know whose mind you are trying to alter here, but longer this thread is around, the larger the chance a Dev will stumble in here and look at it, and if they are anything like me, they will only read the first few posts.Oh, ok, we are into just geting post counts.
My reply is, I answered everything and you chose to ignore it. AND AND AND you also chose to ignore all the issues so you didn't reply to anything.
Your turn.
My goal was to keep this bumped, your goal was apparently similar, I thank you for the help. This is now one of the most read (if not the most read) posts on the forums at the moment and has been around for days, if the Devs don't read this, they won't read anything.
Thanks for the help pal
, good to know I have friends here.Back on topic though, I would very much like to see this reactivated as well as the initiation of the Kill/Death counter similar to on the test server, anyway we can get a Dev to comment on this?
Ah, then your short on knowing how things work .... Your wasting your time.
Your looking at the EA/Mythic audience. They are absent. If you look around, you will find were they are
I am looking at the Lurkers, they are present and they are forming or reinforcing opinions. (Scroll all the way to the bottom of the forums threads and read the two numbers that constitute the number of people in the forum)
My crowd is a much larger crowd.We are addressing different audiences.
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Brucie Kibbutz
Guest
I would like to reiterate the part of my post you ignored: Back on topic though, I would very much like to see this reactivated as well as the initiation of the Kill/Death counter similar to on the test server, anyway we can get a Dev to comment on this?Ah, then your short on knowing how things work .... Your wasting your time.
Your looking at the EA/Mythic audience. They are absent. If you look around, you will find were they are
I am looking at the Lurkers, they are present and they are forming or reinforcing opinions. (Scroll all the way to the bottom of the forums threads and read the two numbers that constitute the number of people in the forum)
We are addressing different audiences.
You are now just trolling me, if you fail to do this I will report you sir. Thank you.
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ElRay
Guest
Devs, I see none of you have responded to this thread yet. Hopefully you will due to the overwhelming positive response of wanting to reimplement this system back into the game.
In order to have accountability, ONE MUST JOIN A SIDE FIRST!!! And if one makes that voluntary choice, KNOWINGLY what befalls when joining.....alls fair in love and war.
Devs?
I am not responding to this troll, as he is fat from eating today once again. I am simply quoting the oppositions best arguement for the devs to see, which is very weak at best.
In order to have accountability, ONE MUST JOIN A SIDE FIRST!!! And if one makes that voluntary choice, KNOWINGLY what befalls when joining.....alls fair in love and war.
Devs?
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