How many subscribers has EA lost over the years by allowing griefing?

[ACB1961]

The Bane dragon spawn is blocked on Atlantic and soon it will be on all the shards more than likely. This isn't even about that. All the serious or even halfway serious tamers have got plenty of Bane's by now.

This is about terrorism. The root of terrorism is a desire to control others. It comes from feeling powerless.

You guys at EA should have a meeting. I remember how much the people in charge like meetings. The point of the meeting is "How much actual money has terrorism cost the parent company of the game of Ultima Online in the past 12 years?" You can subtitle it "Can we afford to allow this continue?"

Have a Blessed Day!

 

[Coppelia]

Are you sure it's not about nazism?

 

[Petra Fyde]

Actually, when I went to get one on Europa I found them all being killed, however I didn't assume they were just being griefy, I simply asked 'may I tame one please?'

Not only did the people killing them agree, they actually helped me to catch one. Which I then hopped on to recall to Skara and stable it in timely manner so that their game may continue.

 

[Mapper]

Actually, when I went to get one on Europa I found them all being killed, however I didn't assume they were just being griefy, I simply asked 'may I tame one please?'

Not only did the people killing them agree, they actually helped me to catch one. Which I then hopped on to recall to Skara and stable it in timely manner so that their game may continue.

Your very right, People are likely killing them to try get a high HP/resistances dragon. So killing them and letting it respawn until one they like spawns.

 

[Taylor]

I've tried that on Atlantic. Seems us Yanks aren't as polite as you folks.

 

[Aibal]

Your very right, People are likely killing them to try get a high HP/resistances dragon. So killing them and letting it respawn until one they like spawns.

Exactly, I've killed or helped kill off several hundred, with the express purpose of getting the right one to spawn. Several of us worked the spawn most of the day yesterday killing them until good one's spawned, then we took turns taming them. Anyone who came along and wanted one was immediately allowed to tame one, or if they wanted a better one they joined in the rotation.

 

[HD2300]

Yes. I'd like to see 'PvP only' and 'PvM only' super shards.

When I say 'PvM only' it means trammel everywhere but also with consentual PvP like guild and faction wars. 'PvP only' is non-consentual PvP everywhere but with insurance.

Trammel + Fel on production shards are just a non-optimal compromise, where both PvMers lose out and PvPers lose out.

 

[Smoot]

Comparing someone annoying you in a video ( that you choose to play) to terrorism is stupidest things i have heard. Figures its from a tamer (jk lol)
Anyway, i think you get my point. It sucks, but online terrorism? Maybe you were being sarcastic, i dunno. Anyway, this event is going to last a long time. Just wait a few weeks and the spawn will probably be open.

 

[Beer_Cayse]

which is the standard method of gaming on Europa and a few other shards. Manners and courtesy.

I have found that I have less lag on Europa than to LA here in the US. Go figger. I'll be working my character there up. I want to play, but damned if I'll be playing if I have to walk like an NPC.

 

[Arcus]

3





..

 

[Arcus]

This is about terrorism. The root of terrorism is a desire to control others. It comes from feeling powerless.

Terrorism? You are seriously going to compare an act of aggression that kills many and destroys many more lives to greifing in a game? You really dishonor everyone who has sacrificed anything to stop that garbage by drawing a parallel to a fake game world.

 

[Siteswap]

Seems us Yanks aren't as polite as you folks.

You dont say ...

 

[Evlar]

Do have to say, the least griefing I've seen whilst playing UO, has been on Europa.

That includes griefing at spawns and griefing at EM events. There's still a lot of RP guilds alive and well on Europe, but the non-RP players respect the way the RP'ers play the game, much more so than on some of the US shards, where they're often regarded as the strange "thee" and "thou" players.

Saying that though, some of the RP'ers on the US servers are perhaps even stronger in their convictions, because they have to deal with pure idiots, who have nothing better than to try ruining their fun, on a daily basis.

Perhaps some of the players from Europa could create alternative characters up on some of the US shards and run etiquette courses

 

[UOKaiser]

Yes. I'd like to see 'PvP only' and 'PvM only' super shards.

When I say 'PvM only' it means trammel everywhere but also with consentual PvP like guild and faction wars. 'PvP only' is non-consentual PvP everywhere but with insurance.

Trammel + Fel on production shards are just a non-optimal compromise, where both PvMers lose out and PvPers lose out.

I would love that. But seperate patches for each. As if they add something to PVM shard that would unbalance PVP shard or add something to PVP shard that would nerf something in PVM shard then they could seperate the publishes so both don't receive the same one.

 

[jbfortune]

Do have to say, the least griefing I've seen whilst playing UO, has been on Europa.

That includes griefing at spawns and griefing at EM events. There's still a lot of RP guilds alive and well on Europe, but the non-RP players respect the way the RP'ers play the game, much more so than on some of the US shards, where they're often regarded as the strange "thee" and "thou" players.

Saying that though, some of the RP'ers on the US servers are perhaps even stronger in their convictions, because they have to deal with pure idiots, who have nothing better than to try ruining their fun, on a daily basis.

Perhaps some of the players from Europa could create alternative characters up on some of the US shards and run etiquette courses

I haven't played on any other shards really other tha Europa, but generally, its a pretty good shard.

Full of nice people, not too busy but not empty. I often speak to the RP's at the bank and quite often scare them with my garg. All good fun.

 

[jbfortune]

Also, whats the max stats for the Band Dragons. I head 650hp was max, but what about resists?

Edit - Nevermind, found out myself!

 

[Felonious Monk]

Terrorism? You are seriously going to compare an act of aggression that kills many and destroys many more lives to greifing in a game? You really dishonor everyone who has sacrificed anything to stop that garbage by drawing a parallel to a fake game world.

^This^
And you play on Atlantic?
Wow........Turn off the computer.
Go outside & meet "the people".

 

[Viper09]

Yes. I'd like to see 'PvP only' and 'PvM only' super shards.

When I say 'PvM only' it means trammel everywhere but also with consentual PvP like guild and faction wars. 'PvP only' is non-consentual PvP everywhere but with insurance.

Trammel + Fel on production shards are just a non-optimal compromise, where both PvMers lose out and PvPers lose out.

This wouldn't exactly prevent griefing though. It would still happen.

 

[Cailleach]

Do have to say, the least griefing I've seen whilst playing UO, has been on Europa.

That includes griefing at spawns and griefing at EM events. There's still a lot of RP guilds alive and well on Europe, but the non-RP players respect the way the RP'ers play the game, much more so than on some of the US shards, where they're often regarded as the strange "thee" and "thou" players.

Saying that though, some of the RP'ers on the US servers are perhaps even stronger in their convictions, because they have to deal with pure idiots, who have nothing better than to try ruining their fun, on a daily basis.

Perhaps some of the players from Europa could create alternative characters up on some of the US shards and run etiquette courses

Perhaps I could pop over and open that charm school? *grins evilly*

 

[Lady Storm]

Griefing has been on UO from day one. When the early players had a bad day at work they would bring it into game and let it spill out over their play. (time before anyone under 18 couldnt play uo legaly) This over the years spred to the new players as age didnt matter. The class bully came home loaded up UO and continued his rant in game.

Yes we lost players to this, and to say we didnt is a bald faced lie. I know of many who left cause of 1 player who was rentless in his attacks both verbal and actions in the game. Thankfully he quit when his targets quit UO for greener pastures.

I do not doubt there are players who do this in the events, whether its to control the spawn so that the bane dragons cant be gotten thus limiting the over all population's ownership to so few that the price will shoot to astronomical heights or so that the impact on PVP is so little as to not warrent concern later on.

Griefing is real in all games. However UO is not the attitude police. Ignore them, they hate when they cant get a rise out of players and soon walk away.

 

[Arcus]

Its 4 now.

 

[Evlar]

Perhaps I could pop over and open that charm school? *grins evilly*

They wouldn't know what hit them

Seriously though, you do a grand job with Saor.

 

[puni666]

It's the main event right now... you think they're really not going to fix it? Give it a few days...

 

[olduofan]

It's the main event right now... you think they're really not going to fix it? Give it a few days...

after what they have said i doubt they will and even if they did we have to go all weekend with them doing this

 

[Sergul'zan_SP]

The Bane dragon spawn is blocked on Atlantic and soon it will be on all the shards more than likely. This isn't even about that. All the serious or even halfway serious tamers have got plenty of Bane's by now.

This is about terrorism. The root of terrorism is a desire to control others. It comes from feeling powerless.

You guys at EA should have a meeting. I remember how much the people in charge like meetings. The point of the meeting is "How much actual money has terrorism cost the parent company of the game of Ultima Online in the past 12 years?" You can subtitle it "Can we afford to allow this continue?"

Have a Blessed Day!

Seriously? Terrorism? I thought this was a game...

 

[ACB1961]

Terrorism? You are seriously going to compare an act of aggression that kills many and destroys many more lives to greifing in a game? You really dishonor everyone who has sacrificed anything to stop that garbage by drawing a parallel to a fake game world.

I'll answer you. Normally I try not to do this.

This is the first definition I saw. American Heritage Dictionary

"The unlawful use or threatened use of force or violence by a person or an organized group against people or property with the intention of intimidating or coercing societies or governments, often for ideological or political reasons."

That's what terrorism is.

That's what this is.

There are many forms of terrorism. Killing people in real life might be terrorism or it might not.

I'm not going to attack you personally because you seem like a very passionate person where terrorism is concerned. I understand what you're saying.

Everything we say here is pretty much about a video game. In UO many many times over the years we have a very small group of people who totally dominate game play with some negative mechanism. This is wrong. No one should be able to totally stop ______ insert whatever you like there.

The point is how many people have quit this game over the years because griefing was allowed? There are not a whole lot of us left now. I don't think ea really wants to lose the people that are coming back and playing again to someone exploiting game mechanics. This seems like a Bane Dragon post, but really its not. This is just the latest in spawn-blocking which is just one small example of griefing tactics.

 

[ACB1961]

Actually, when I went to get one on Europa I found them all being killed, however I didn't assume they were just being griefy, I simply asked 'may I tame one please?'

Not only did the people killing them agree, they actually helped me to catch one. Which I then hopped on to recall to Skara and stable it in timely manner so that their game may continue.

That's what we do on Atlantic too.

We kill them til a nice one spawns. Then, we take turns taming it. We give them away to anyone that needs one.

I didn't assume anyone was being "griefy".

The first "griefy" came in when this guy shows up and announces "Taming is over for today." He kills them for 10-12 hours. He did this for several days. Ok, so what, he's easy to deal with. You just come back when he's not here.

The second "griefy" was much better than the first. That was where a small group of players tame a dragon, and then sit on it invisible for the rest of the day in shifts. They say on Atlantic they will be here everyday til the event ends.

I talked to one of them. He's a very nice guy. He says he doesn't agree with what he's doing either, but since its not illegal he's not going to stop. He has a legit issue with a specific person. He was wronged, and the whole shard will pay for it.

Last time, I'll comment on this. This is not a Bane Dragon problem, this is a uo game mechanics problem. This is about we can't afford to lose subscribers til they close the doors on this game over things like this.

Personally, I'd like to be playing 10 more years...

 

[ACB1961]

Comparing someone annoying you in a video ( that you choose to play) to terrorism is stupidest things i have heard. Figures its from a tamer (jk lol)
Anyway, i think you get my point. It sucks, but online terrorism? Maybe you were being sarcastic, i dunno. Anyway, this event is going to last a long time. Just wait a few weeks and the spawn will probably be open.

Actually, I'm every kind of character pretty much at this point except a fencer.

 

[Viper09]

Perhaps a good idea would be for them to have them spawn in more locations in greater numbers.

 

[ACB1961]

Griefing has been on UO from day one. When the early players had a bad day at work they would bring it into game and let it spill out over their play. (time before anyone under 18 couldnt play uo legaly) This over the years spred to the new players as age didnt matter. The class bully came home loaded up UO and continued his rant in game.

Yes we lost players to this, and to say we didnt is a bald faced lie. I know of many who left cause of 1 player who was rentless in his attacks both verbal and actions in the game. Thankfully he quit when his targets quit UO for greener pastures.

I do not doubt there are players who do this in the events, whether its to control the spawn so that the bane dragons cant be gotten thus limiting the over all population's ownership to so few that the price will shoot to astronomical heights or so that the impact on PVP is so little as to not warrent concern later on.

Griefing is real in all games. However UO is not the attitude police. Ignore them, they hate when they cant get a rise out of players and soon walk away.

There was a time, in uo when people weren't allowed to act like this at all. There was no scamming allowed of any kind. A whole bunch of people would immediately jump into action at the slightest mention of a scam.

People are always going to do bad things. We all know that. This is a great game. There's no reason in the world to allow a few people to drive off a whole bunch of people.

This sort of problem can be fixed as easily as the Shadowlord event. Simply, have the Bane Dragon spawn in random locations, and have the one that is tamed no longer block the spawn. But, this isn't about Bane Dragons. This is about lets stop bad people from harming people trying to have fun in a game the way the game was designed to be played.

 

[ACB1961]

Perhaps a good idea would be for them to have them spawn in more locations in greater numbers.

I was just saying that same thing. I didn't see your post til I hit the button.

 

[Xalan Dementia]

they cant stop all griefing just like virus protection cant stop all virus's.
and if anyone was lame enough to quit over "griefing" then hope they have fun on the kiddie free to play mmo's

 

[Aristillus]

they cant stop all griefing just like virus protection cant stop all virus's.
and if anyone was lame enough to quit over "griefing" then hope they have fun on the kiddie free to play mmo's

You're right, they can't stop all griefing. But they could stop some of the griefing, or scripting, or scamming, or speedhacking. Instead most of the time these things go unchecked, and there comes a time when you have to ask yourself if this game is still fun. And I think each person will have a different answer to that question and will choose their path accordingly.

 

[Cetric]

The Bane dragon spawn is blocked on Atlantic and soon it will be on all the shards more than likely. This isn't even about that. All the serious or even halfway serious tamers have got plenty of Bane's by now.

This is about terrorism. The root of terrorism is a desire to control others. It comes from feeling powerless.

You guys at EA should have a meeting. I remember how much the people in charge like meetings. The point of the meeting is "How much actual money has terrorism cost the parent company of the game of Ultima Online in the past 12 years?" You can subtitle it "Can we afford to allow this continue?"

Have a Blessed Day!

You are seriously comparing griefing in uo to terrorism.... are you THIS FRICKEN STUPID.

besides, you don't know what real griefing can be if you are upset and heart broken that you can't tame a rare tameable. Those people are just trying to make the tameable rarer, and they won't sit there 24/7

 

[olduofan]

You are seriously comparing griefing in uo to terrorism.... are you THIS FRICKEN STUPID.

besides, you don't know what real griefing can be if you are upset and heart broken that you can't tame a rare tameable. Those people are just trying to make the tameable rarer, and they won't sit there 24/7

maybe not 24/7 but like 20/7 ya

 

[MalagAste]

This game has been full of griefing and greifers since day one... and EA/DEV's have done very little to stop it.

Or their solutions to the problem create larger ones. Trammel anyone?

You know here is my take... ok... There are cheats, hackers, greifers and there are scammers... and since EA/DEV's do next to nothing about them and tend to treat the victims as some sort of criminals they will continue to lose people.

Eventually all that will be left are what we have about now.... those who are zealots and highly dedicated to the game, the scammers, the cheaters, hackers and greifers. Eventually when they lose the last of the zealots... the game will die.

Why? Because there won't be anyone left who gives a ****.... that's why.

It's my opinion that that day is coming... I see more and more of my friends leave. Why? Because nothing is done.

Because there are a handfull of promises followed by a truckload of disappointment.

How many were disappointed by the last new client?

How many have been disappointed about the promised 3rd party detection?

And how many more will be disappointed by whatever comes of the "looking at" of a classic shard?

Will one more huge disappointment kill the game for good?

Perhaps.

So.... here we are again with a fiction that leaves you wondering...... why?

And more promises on the horizon.

Disappointed yet?

I still in my mind almost 100% believe that someone on the inside is purposely sabotaging UO. Why, I don't know.

But it certainly seems to be for me oft times.



But I have a hope... and I continue to try to have faith that all will improve and my friends will return.... perhaps someday.

 

[ingsmsico]

This is about terrorism. The root of terrorism is a desire to control others. It comes from feeling powerless.

are you seriously equating TERRORISM to griefing in a video game? TERRORISM? are you kidding me?

 

[ingsmsico]

I'll answer you. Normally I try not to do this.

This is the first definition I saw. American Heritage Dictionary

"The unlawful use or threatened use of force or violence by a person or an organized group against people or property with the intention of intimidating or coercing societies or governments, often for ideological or political reasons."

That's what terrorism is.

That's what this is.

no, it's not. you are, frankly, crazy.

there is no threat of violence or force when playing a video game, you need to calm down.

I'm surprised a Stratics Mod has posted in this thread without taking action. unbelievable. well, that is to be expected from Stratics.

 

[HD2300]

This just highlights how a small minority ruin things for the majority in UO. The game should be designed so that the majority will enjoy it, not the small minority of sell out losers who make a living off UO or res-killer types.

 

[[JD]]

Hey Y'all, Griefing will be gone soon we're told!

I was taming Banes and this guy shows up and ebolts one mid-tame. Ho ho ho, so funny. I forgot to laugh!!

I informed him, do you really think you're going to tame one after you ebolted mine?

He asks if he looks like a Tamer. Let's see, Stratics says Legendary Mage, Meditation, and resist. Hrmmm. And oh yeah, his guildmates showed up later on and joined in the "fun", roleplaying between "kill kill kill the dragons", and asking me if I lived in my mom's basement. Yeah but it's a really cool basement! There's shuffleboard and shizz, yo!

Then he says Some players are just "jerks" - wait - he uses another word in a strange language I don't speak.

Then he tells me: I didn't come to tame - I came to **** with others trying to tame

No, really?

This is so cool. The UO experience.

I'm sure players like this haven't caused you the loss of respectable paying clients in the past, have they Mark?

It's over an hour (actually it might be 90 minutes) since this began and I asked him to stop, and I'm still #6 in the queue on Sonoma..... I guess someone is just reeeeeally stuck in a wall!

Not really complaining here, but making a point : In UO, the bad guy(and I don't mean the good kind of bad guy) exploits, breaks game mechanics, chases paying subscribers away.... and gets away with it.

Prove me wrong, Mark... prove me wrong.

This guy "won" in the game by preventing me taming. (and wasting a real life hour and a half of his in the process)

However did he "win" in real life? Well, my girl just came over and I'm on my way out for the night with her and some best friends while he's angrily griefing players in UO.

Good luck lil buddy! May you find a fulfilling life.

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http://i45.***********/335fsrm.jpg

 

[Percivalgoh]

I generally avoid doing spawns or events and thus avoid griefers. Obviously because people are attracted to a relatively small area it makes it easy for griefers to find and grief people. And because you have to hang around for the event or the spawn you are their captive audience. If you weren't particularly bound to a certain area and could leave at any time, then it's really difficult for someone to effectively grief you (in Trammel anyway).

 

[Cailleach]

no, it's not. you are, frankly, crazy.

there is no threat of violence or force when playing a video game, you need to calm down.

I'm surprised a Stratics Mod has posted in this thread without taking action. unbelievable. well, that is to be expected from Stratics.

Goodness me, if you get your panties in that much of a bundle, you're going to have trouble walking!

Check the mod list at the bottom sweetie. You'll note my name ain't on it.

The other thing is, what's been posted, politely, I might add, is an opinion, to which the poster is entitled. You don't agree with it, fair enough - you're entitled too.

 

[Petra Fyde]

Terrorism might be too strong a word, although I realise you are using it within the context of the game. However it is certainly harrasment and should be paged on as that.

Ingsmico, would you care to tell me, in pm, which particular Stratics rule you feel relates to misuse of vocabulary please?

 

[Lady Storm]

Just a reminder ..... the bane dragons will disapear after the event, just like the dread mares did. So get what you can when you can, the damn idiots have to sleep sometime! Those of us who want one but cant get it will be envious but keep your cool out there. As has been said IT IS harrassment but if the new gms think of it that way is to be seen. Good luck.

 

[MalagAste]

It is harassment when they say they are doing it on purpose to prevent YOU from taming one...

So long as they say nothing they are just jerks like you think they are.

I believe it's all in what they say and how they say it. If you page harassment and they actually say they are targeting YOU specifically it's harassment, otherwise you are just unfortunate.

However it's my opinion with just one dragon spawning the DEV's knew exactly what would happen.


You ever wonder if they don't do it on purpose just to see you get ticked off and wish it was fel so you could kill the offender?

I hate to break this to anyone but that wouldn't happen either. What you'd get is the same crap you get with powerscrolls on 90% of the shards... One large guild or group pretty much monopolizes the entire thing and they hold it because 90% of them use 3rd party apps to cheat.

So either way the average joe schmoe player gets the shaft.


But what's it matter the GM's really don't have any clue about UO Game mechanics.

If it ain't in their little flip book of answers you're SOL. At the mercy of their judgment and they'll just send you a canned comment anyway telling you they'll look into the situation and take whatever action but they can't tell you what that is.

 

[Arcus]

This whole thread is a troll. No one can possibly answer the question posed in te OPs topic , not even EA know 100% sure.

Im going to beat the Op with a nice fluffy , comfy pillow until they fall asleep. Terrorism.

 

[the 4th man]

This whole thread is a troll. No one can possibly answer the question posed in te OPs topic , not even EA know 100% sure.

Im going to beat the Op with a nice fluffy , comfy pillow until they fall asleep. Terrorism.

"troll", what kind of pansy word is that anyways?? Let me say this, cyber-terrorism, has no ceiling and no bottom line. To all of you that got your panties in a bunch, as posted above, because some guy used the word terrorism, aren't ones to talk. At least ABC used a real word and not some teeny bopper wording like leet or uber, or whatever you gimps say.

The GM's need to start earning their paycheck, or give the job to someone who has a brain, as in comprehends in game mechanics. When an event goes on and one player decides to be a d-bag, GM's need to act, and not conjure up some cattle talk like, oh,....kill stealing is allowed, so don't bother me.

I lucked out and got one, due to co-operation from players, even with guild titles displayed, acted adult and mature enough, as if guild names didn't matter.

Don't like it.....oh well.

later

 

[Limic]

"How much actual money has terrorism cost the parent company of the game of Ultima Online in the past 12 years?" You can subtitle it "Can we afford to allow this continue?"

Have a Blessed Day!

The question is equally, "how much money have we made as a result of allowing terorism in the last 12 years?"

You would be surprised. I bet my number is greater. I played for much longer than I would have, just because I could grief players like you. You know people who want a game in a utopian environment where the sky is always blue and nobody is mean to them. Where everyone thinks they are beautiful, and everyone thinks your cute.

That was the beauty of UO, it was like real life. In real life I suspect, you get beat up alot?

 

[canary]

Not a fan of third party programs, but I can honestly say I've never met a single person who quit over others using them.

 

[Taylor]

Not a fan of third party programs, but I can honestly say I've never met a single person who quit over others using them.

Maybe, but we're talking about griefing, not third party programs.