"Good Guys" are they a dying breed of RPvPr?

[Guest]

Again, I cannot say too much about the specifics of the Waka scenario, I wasn't around then, I don't know what all the issues were, but certainly it was a good opportunity, and I regret missing it.

Ginsu has put forth his grievances with the WC's part, and though that is considering just one perspective, Yasou, Grot and others have put forth their perspectives - the full picture of it is the sum of our citizens. Whether everyone likes their neighbors and how they do things or not, you cannot swap your neighbors for people who do things the way you would prefer them to.

I don't think Ginsu's point is just to fling mud at people he doesn't agree with. Although the discussion went down the path of accusation and defense, I am assuming, the point was to say - ok, I feel that could have been more than it was because of X, what can we do in the future?

Understanding the guilds you are going to deal with to attain a result that you want, and working with them to achieve it will go much farther than simply wishing that they were more like you and then getting upset when they aren't.

Although my stance on some issues is static, I deal with people differently based on what I know about them and what I perceive their goals to be. That is how to get the most out of people, which in turn benefits everyone.

 

[Guest]

I still remember the time you killed me in the Tokuno desert.
*cries*

 

[Ginsu-SP]

<blockquote><hr>

I don't think Ginsu's point is just to fling mud at people he doesn't agree with. Although the discussion went down the path of accusation and defense, I am assuming, the point was to say - ok, I feel that could have been more than it was because of X, what can we do in the future?

[/ QUOTE ]
No, I'm not trying to fling mud. Yes I feel like the RP war could have been a LOT
more fun if everyone had just jumped in and had some fun.

When I originally made my post though, I was just trying to identify other people
besides the WC to interact with. No offense, you guys are pretty set in your ways.
And what I and some others see as problems... you guys don't. That's ok... to
each their own. But as I said in my first post... if you don't have the same style
as you guys, and you are RPing a "good guy"... it's pretty lonely.

I have always respected a lot of the things the WC has done. Interacting with
groups that have different playstyles has never been a strong point however.
And on a shard with such a small population... it would seem crucial to be able
to involve a lot of people, and still maintain the integrity of your own playstyle.

I'm definitely not trying to downgrade you guys. You are the beginnings for so
much that is good on the shard. You, Py, gave me much of what I believe
about RP. There are obviously some ideas I have pushed to the point that we
now disagree... but you inspired me to RP. And I'm very glad you're back, and I
expect things to take a more fun turn now that you are... because it was always
fun when you were active before.

Cheers!

 

[Dawn/Kaisa]

Ok I skimmed through the WAKA story thread and didn;t see any overwhelming bad attitude by the WC. Yay were they harsh at times yes did they not always approve of certain actions yes. But really most of the replies were still in rp form..just because there wasn;t always a disclaimer at the end saying hey great idea Yasou doesnlt mean they were being petty. Really I found only one WC post I thought was a bit inapporiate not going to name names though. But From what I read the WC did contribute to the story quite a bit actually. Also since you obviously did not understand my first post..I was not PERSONALLY crying about getting griefed. I was just saying that blame isn;t just all on one group of people. But anyway I do hope Yasou gives this a try again.

 

[Ginsu-SP]

<blockquote><hr>

Ok I skimmed through the WAKA story thread and didn;t see any overwhelming bad attitude by the WC. Yay were they harsh at times yes did they not always approve of certain actions yes. But really most of the replies were still in rp form..just because there wasn;t always a disclaimer at the end saying hey great idea Yasou doesnlt mean they were being petty. Really I found only one WC post I thought was a bit inapporiate not going to name names though. But From what I read the WC did contribute to the story quite a bit actually. Also since you obviously did not understand my first post..I was not PERSONALLY crying about getting griefed. I was just saying that blame isn;t just all on one group of people. But anyway I do hope Yasou gives this a try again.

[/ QUOTE ]
If my reply seemed to suggest you were personally crying about getting griefed,
I apologize for bad wording. Nothing I said was meant toward you personally.

As far as the WC story posts go.... yes there were a few good ones. There were
also veiled insinuations of cheating, and dishonorable conduct. I don't care how
you say it.... an accusation of cheating in an RP thread is not contributing to
the story.

I am done griping though. Anything else I post here, I will try to make constructive.

Cheers!

 

[Dawn/Kaisa]

Ok

, and as for the rest I think we have to agree to disagree.

 

[Kuzara]

I remember once I was with Py during the AoE transformation on other shards or something and there were a lot of newbie packs running about since their shards were down. Well, they somehow came to acquire Py's weapon and I murdered some "innocent" guy to get it back for him. After that, I felt like an evil man...I felt so evil that I was bad, I was a bad man!

 

[Dor of Sonoma]

*nods*

That's what happens to those who drink mongbat milk.

*shudders*

 

[Kuzara]

*Cackles maniacally* The thicker, the better!

 

[Grot]

<blockquote><hr>

I have stayed out of this thread and most other serious threads lately. But I have to say Castor what you have said is so very true and I don't think anyone could say it better.

Thank you for doing it.

No one has any idea how hard we worked to have some fun wars and how one guild had me pulling my hair out trying to please them and still not succeeding. I can not blame Yasou for not wanting to do anything again. Why do so only to be trashed for it? I have not seen another person in the two years we have been here work so hard to try to make some fun times for the whole shard.

Again Castor great post.

[/ QUOTE ]

Your guild's selfish attitude is part reason there are problems. If Yasou is working so hard to make fun times for the shard, why is it so many of your guild openly state that they don't give a damn for the fun of others, only their own. Can't you see the contradiction? You're defeating yourselves.

If your enemies aren't having fun, that will eventually recripocrate. You worked hard, I agree. But you worked inefficiently. You and I spent a lot of time in ICQ, but you never listened. I made a simple request to both you and Yasou: Don't raid story night. What happened? Your guild raided story night. Rather than thinking about the reason for my request, your guild was too set on forcing your brand of fun on us. There were plenty of other things to do that night. You weren't forced to participate in the stories, you were just asked to avoid one clearing on the entire map.

It's the lack of ability or desire to honor a simple request like that that bothers me. It's that sort of selfish attitude that make everything this thread is working for hard to achieve.

If you want to pull your hair out on an effort, how about trying one that will benefit not just Waka but the shard. Try to convice your members that maybe the fun of others also affects their own fun. Work to change this sort of attitude:

"We are here to have fun, but my fun is important...yours is not." -Wasabi Wakayama.

And I'll go on record saying that I'm not perfect, nor is my guild. I'm listening to things being said here. There are things that I'll work to do differently in the future. Things I've done wrong in the past. But no matter what I do, I know one thing for fact. RP or not, if attitudes like that in the quote above don't change, things won't get better. I can't see how that sort of thing is applauded.

 

[Dawn/Kaisa]

I have to agree Grot..though it;s not just WAKA a lot of guilds now a days have that who cares about anyone else my fun is the only thing that is important attitude. But often in the long run being concerned not only about your own fun but others is more fun for everyone in the end. Because you can;t make people unhappy or force your brand of fun on people..and expect them to just take it sitting down..people will take action. Now of course I am not saying you should have to do whatever people want you to do or act exactly how people want but some times you have to make compromises. Like for instance Grot gave the example of CWS asking WAKA not to attack Story night, but everywhere else they were still free to attack.

But aye if those kinda selfish attitudes do not change things will never get better and I too can;t see how that is appluaded.

 

[Ibichi_Wakayama]

Grot...I did not mention you by name or guild. I really dont know why you feel the need to act so pompus most of the time.
We went round and round about what rules you wanted for the war or there would be no war. Yes you asked no attacking story night....3 of us went there and ended up backing off and leaving.

Now because you and your guild were so negative toward us the war was not much fun. We warred TnT....no rules really..but by unspoken agreement there was mostly light looting enough to take people out the battle. At times we outnumbered them badly so some just left the fight to make it more fair. Did they ask us to do any of this...NOPE they sure didnt. You came to war with an really bad attitude and it stayed that way.

As to us being here for our fun....well of course we are. Should I be responsible for your fun? No you should be. My first and foremost thoughts are for my guildmates. And if you say you are not here for your fun and that of your mates than you are lying to us and to yourself. I have been on the receiving side of some of your so called honorable members crap talking and that is something you will very seldom ever see me do in game. But of course being your guild that makes it ok.

Again I did not call you out by name or guild but you in your oh so honorable way had to call me and my guild out.

 

[Grot]

<blockquote><hr>

Grot...I did not mention you by name or guild. I really dont know why you feel the need to act so pompus most of the time.
We went round and round about what rules you wanted for the war or there would be no war. Yes you asked no attacking story night....3 of us went there and ended up backing off and leaving.

Now because you and your guild were so negative toward us the war was not much fun. We warred TnT....no rules really..but by unspoken agreement there was mostly light looting enough to take people out the battle. At times we outnumbered them badly so some just left the fight to make it more fair. Did they ask us to do any of this...NOPE they sure didnt. You came to war with an really bad attitude and it stayed that way.

As to us being here for our fun....well of course we are. Should I be responsible for your fun? No you should be. My first and foremost thoughts are for my guildmates. And if you say you are not here for your fun and that of your mates than you are lying to us and to yourself. I have been on the receiving side of some of your so called honorable members crap talking and that is something you will very seldom ever see me do in game. But of course being your guild that makes it ok.

Again I did not call you out by name or guild but you in your oh so honorable way had to call me and my guild out.

[/ QUOTE ]

I can read between the lines as well as anyone. I know well there was strife between us. Apparently it was only us, judging by the rest of the responses here in regards to the War. Therefore, why not call an apple an apple and try to make a pie. I.e. why not try to salvage something out of it...try to work towards something better.

No, you're not responsible for my fun, but you have again confirmed that if you make something un-fun for others, things end up becoming such for you. Why not chose to at least make an attempt. Work to a compromise. Last I heard from Yasou was "No point in talking further. Seems my guildmates are not interested in working at all with the WC." And that helps how?

I never said I wasn't here for my fun and for the fun of my guildmates. But I also make an attempt to bring fun to others also. Therein lies the difference.

You had the unspoken agreement with TnT....you left if the battles were uneven. Why weren't you willing to even try to come to the same accord with us when similar requests were SPOKEN!? We went round and round, aye. But nothing ever changed. None of our requests were even considered. We agreed to war you. Why couldn't you grant the same courtesty and agree not to fight from your houses? We were (and are) perfectly willing to consider your requests in return, if you have any. Even if you don't have requests, explain how the above requests ruin your fun? Stopping house hiding works the same as warring...it provides a clean battleground w/out twinking the rules. None of the rules we asked for were one sided. If you agreed not to do something, we would have done the same. Nothign we asked for was any more of a benefit to us than to you. It was just to make things cleaner, and therefor more fun.

More than 3 of you were at story night. You backed off only after killing people and only after repeated requests. And in the process of doing so, I had to listen to a flurry of name calling from your guild mates and allies. How hard would it have been to never gone there....particularly since I made the request of both you and Yasou much earlier?

Yes, we were negative from the outset. But don't even try to say that your guild wasn't also. There's plenty of history on both sides. But you forget, we were also willing to work with you. We accepted your war, we played along in the thread. We tried to put some of the past behind us....perhaps not completely, but we tried. And in talking here, I'm trying to do it again.

But it won't do any good, still, if your ONLY concern is for your guild.

I'm willing to wipe the slate. But the only way that can happen is if both of us are willing to talk and compromise at least on the outset, to build something from the ashes. The only way that compromise can happen is if you are willing to talk. See the quote from Yasou above....Can you change that?

I'm not trying to forge an alliance or friendship here. I'm trying to work so that we all have fun in future encounters. Not just the winner.

 

[Revvo]

WAKA always have and always will claim to be blameless for anything that happens that shows them in a bad light, your wasting your breath. In fact it's like politicians over here they do whatever the hell they like and when people complain they have one or two spokespersons who come out in public and claim "nothing happened" or "someone else was to blame" it's not hard to work out who these spindoctors are in WAKA.

 

[Ginsu-SP]

The thing about the WAKA scenario that made it so good was they came to tax
us all. This made it possible for every guild on the shard to oppose them if they
chose to. That made it possible for war alliances to be made that could be based
simply on winning the war. Often what seperates us are the very things that
make us unique guilds. So, it is nice to have opportunities for short term alliances.
They are very fun, and often lead to long term alliances.

The thing that I always consider about wars is that they can be relatively short.
If everyone could keep a sense of humor, and negotiate a little bit with each
new round of war... each group would have a chance to show their honor.

Presumption of dishonor... is dishonorable.

Cheers!

 

[Yasou Wakayama]

Why not go back to the initial topic of the thread and just count WAKA out ... put us in the same category as OTF, SMG, and VmP ... we will not attempt any future RP nor plan events for people that are not green to us.

It was clearly a mistake to think that people on either side would be willing to try to have fun together - we are all to damn selfish - it isn't worth it. Speaking for WAKA here just count us out completely - we aren't interested.

We aren't RPvPr's ... never were ... never will be ... just tried to have fun with a story.

 

[Grot]

Maybe because some of us see the seed of something greater in you, despite faults. You have em, we have em, everyone has em. But unlike what's seen in VMP and OTF, you have made attempts. You've shown the ability.

Hell, I'm even hoping that they see my point too. It's just not as strong.

 

[Ibichi_Wakayama]

Yes I am sure "you" knew who I was talking about but no one else did. I really feel you used this as another chance to bash WAKA.

I never said ONLY, I said my guild comes first and that is the way it should be. We do not go out to grief people purposely and you damn well know it.

Anyway I have been trying very hard not to get into these discussions since usually they do not turn out to anyones advantage.

I play to have fun with my guildmates and with others on the shard. For the most part this is acomplished. Everyone of us has a different play style but yet we are all here for the same thing.

 

[Guest]

To answer your question if I had fun...yes I did...I have been a "crafter type" since I first set foot on SP. Always afraid to fight, sometimes even running from some of the monsters. *Hangs head in shame* But, when I join with Ginsu, and joined MYTH, I decided on another skill set. I have never enjoyed myself more than during this "war" with WAKA!!

And, Yes, my roleplay was mostly on the boards. THAT too was great fun!!
Gave me something to look forward to each day.

I never won a fight..and sometimes, yes I was completely stripped *I STILL hope whoever took my lovely crimson dress wears them in good health!!*

Sometimes I was not looted at all.

And, yes again, in the fact I was sorely disappointed that opportunities were lost to continue the RP, but since I did not know of the reasons for this, I will not point too accusing a finger. (Real life takes presidence over anything else, as we all know.)

I really hope that folks can get things started again here..SP has been a great place, and can be again. With the return of the ORCs and the coming of the Savages, things are looking up.

And, think on this, as humans, we are neither completely 'good' or 'evil'. We are complex creatures, capable of many things and 'feelings.' I have had some of the very ones some of you say are completely corrupted to help me when I was in dire need. And I have had some of those you folks consider 'good' pass me by in my times of need.

Roleplay is a personal thing, we each have our own style. I look forward to 'meeting' everyone in game and trying out mine on ya!

 

[Grot]

<blockquote><hr>

Yes I am sure "you" knew who I was talking about but no one else did. I really feel you used this as another chance to bash WAKA.

I never said ONLY, I said my guild comes first and that is the way it should be. We do not go out to grief people purposely and you damn well know it.

Anyway I have been trying very hard not to get into these discussions since usually they do not turn out to anyones advantage.

I play to have fun with my guildmates and with others on the shard. For the most part this is acomplished. Everyone of us has a different play style but yet we are all here for the same thing.

[/ QUOTE ]

Plenty of people did. There are plenty of innuendos here. I am no more bashing Waka than I am CWS or the WC. I'm stating problems, pointing out facts, describing my point of view, and providing solutions or ideas.

You may have never said ONLY, but your guildmates have, and openly. Sadly, I don't damn well know that. I've seen too many posts by Waka members that lead me to believe it's not the case at least sometimes. I'm just hoping that something can happen that makes those cases the obvious exception.

 

[Ibichi_Wakayama]

Grot this does nothing to help it only causes more hard feelings. If we are so bad than have nothing to do with us. But if you really hope some good can be worked toward than leave the past alone and move on.

Something that is very seldom seen by anyone in WAKA is a post showing our kills or a post whining because we were killed or looted. We just play the game and move on unless a post is already started.

But as Yasou said, it doesnt matter what we say or do we are the the big bad guys who have no honor. So be it. But look in your own backyards too.

I think it is time for this thread to die.

 

[Grot]

<blockquote><hr>

Grot this does nothing to help it only causes more hard feelings. If we are so bad than have nothing to do with us. But if you really hope some good can be worked toward than leave the past alone and move on.

Something that is very seldom seen by anyone in WAKA is a post showing our kills or a post whining because we were killed or looted. We just play the game and move on unless a post is already started.

But as Yasou said, it doesnt matter what we say or do we are the the big bad guys who have no honor. So be it. But look in your own backyards too.

I think it is time for this thread to die.

[/ QUOTE ]

This thread brought up an issue. There is a problem. Some people are hoping that people will work to make a change.

Apathy does no good. Debate can. If you want me to leave the past alone, then so be it. But tell me if you want to change things, or if you want them to stay the same? If it's the former, there HAS to be discussion or action of some sort. If talk of the past is done, then talk of the future.

I think the thread should stay alive until there is change.

 

[Akane Wakayama]

less talking more cookie baking

 

[Guest]

It is difficult to moderate a thread like this. I have much respect for many that are involved in this difficult exchange of thoughts, beliefs, and ideas. I hope that some good can come from this discussion.

Remember, be respectful, and build the community.

 

[Akane Wakayama]

nothing builds community like baking me peanut butter and chocolate chip cookies. Come on feed the pregnant woman!

 

[Guest]

heh, so many many things I could say about that


*bites tongue*

 

[imported_Castor]

Sometimes, i think of Tweeter
Sometimes, i think of Jan
Sometimes all i can think about, is the Monkey Man...

 

[Mandolin]

<blockquote><hr>

heh, so many many things I could say about that


*bites tongue*

[/ QUOTE ]

Thank you... *takes blood from bitten tongue for DNA test*

We'll find the father eventually Akane... no worries.

 

[Guest]

whoa...whoa...easy there


alot of drugs was involved and I think a couple of penguins

and damn if they...and her didn't look pretty damn good in the night light

good times....damn good times

 

[Feyre]

 

[imported_Felinious-CWS]

Im not getting into the Waka/WC, ive said my piece. I was disapointed in alot during that war. I then had to go away for about a month and a half, but have come back.

Yes rp is hard to find on Siege, its been like that for a very long time, a very long time. Do I try to be good, yes i try to respect all people. Looting people is about respect is have nothing to do with good or bad, so that is out of the topice for me. Respect meaning, i wont take your gear so you dont have to waste 10 min of your life getting more gear, and go on haveing fun.

Does the WC have all good guys, no. We have guys/gals that support the goals of the WC, do they do it with all good means, of course not. I say Fel is good, but sometimes the Shadow part of Shadow ranger comes out in me. Do I want the 8 virtues of Lord British followed on the shard, yes.

What we need on this server is for an evil Rp guild to have some power and numbers, like UND or orc used to be. Did Waka start a good rp story yes, it was great. But thier members did not particpate in it. Is that bad no. Its not their members playstyle to rp, that is fine. But its hard to rp when its not a two way street. Most of you were not around for DT- rp, great evil rp, with good pvp.

I myslef dont care about loot rules and such, but I wanto rp in a story, and pvp for a cause, not just log and fight and punch macros with no end result of the fight.

The waka war was fun, i dont like to lose, so it was not the most fun i could have had, but still fun. It had no end game though, we lost, but nothing changed. We still pay no taxes to the king, although we defend his virtues.

A good rp story made by any "side" has to have a end story, did Frodo and Sam just keep wandering, does Drizzit just leave the Drow and go and and....
there has to be some plan to the story, if you start a story, just going out and fighing is not a stroy. I want chars to stand up for their beliefs with out the need to go orange. I dont hesitate to help red kss people, when they are attacked, they are my allies, if i rp i dont see "red" anyway, just a friend. I agree with Aerick, in not watning to know my enemies, Fel the elf would not care to talk to orcs, undead and such, but with humans intent on tax collecting, but who never speak of such just attck, hard to rp.

Rp is not pvp, pvp is a by product of RP if done correctly. The Demon of Yew, one of the best rp stories ever in UO, had good rp, some pvp that had a cause, and an end story.

I will defend one thing on the subject of WC answer to the msg board rp. The posts that some made, were to show if Waka was intent enforcing their will on others, why then did their members when encounterd not back up their leaderships words, without pause. I know some stories had the waka "shoguns" running froma fight or two, not to make fun of their pvp, they are decent pvpers, but to show that some of their members were not dedicated to the cause.


another problem with Rp, is the lack of new ideas, no offecnce to the evil people but vampires, undead and orcs, are all that we see. and lack of new ideas on the good peoples sides as well. 8 virtues, justice...is that all we can come up with??

I dont know the answer to the rp problems on siege, I know alot of the talented rp have gone elsewhere. i know one thing i will start to help the process...

 

[Guest]

<blockquote><hr>

less talking more cookie baking

[/ QUOTE ]

Oooh, I have an awesome recipe for an extremely rich oatmeal-butter cookie, Akane. It is a great recipe because once you have the dough base (which admittedly is a bit of a pain to make) you can add what you like to make "new" cookie variations. I have yet to have any variation of that cookie not be a success, be it with chocolate chips or chunks (broken up Hershey bars), raisins, nuts, etc. I am wondering how pieces of Reeses peanut butter cups would work - that is a variation I haven't tried.

*blinks*

Oh yeah...the thread topic - ya'll go back to arguing now, I have cookies to make.

-Skylark

 

[Dawn/Kaisa]

<blockquote><hr>

Im not getting into the Waka/WC, ive said my piece. I was disapointed in alot during that war. I then had to go away for about a month and a half, but have come back.

Yes rp is hard to find on Siege, its been like that for a very long time, a very long time. Do I try to be good, yes i try to respect all people. Looting people is about respect is have nothing to do with good or bad, so that is out of the topice for me. Respect meaning, i wont take your gear so you dont have to waste 10 min of your life getting more gear, and go on haveing fun.

Does the WC have all good guys, no. We have guys/gals that support the goals of the WC, do they do it with all good means, of course not. I say Fel is good, but sometimes the Shadow part of Shadow ranger comes out in me. Do I want the 8 virtues of Lord British followed on the shard, yes.

What we need on this server is for an evil Rp guild to have some power and numbers, like UND or orc used to be. Did Waka start a good rp story yes, it was great. But thier members did not particpate in it. Is that bad no. Its not their members playstyle to rp, that is fine. But its hard to rp when its not a two way street. Most of you were not around for DT- rp, great evil rp, with good pvp.

I myslef dont care about loot rules and such, but I wanto rp in a story, and pvp for a cause, not just log and fight and punch macros with no end result of the fight.

The waka war was fun, i dont like to lose, so it was not the most fun i could have had, but still fun. It had no end game though, we lost, but nothing changed. We still pay no taxes to the king, although we defend his virtues.

A good rp story made by any "side" has to have a end story, did Frodo and Sam just keep wandering, does Drizzit just leave the Drow and go and and....
there has to be some plan to the story, if you start a story, just going out and fighing is not a stroy. I want chars to stand up for their beliefs with out the need to go orange. I dont hesitate to help red kss people, when they are attacked, they are my allies, if i rp i dont see "red" anyway, just a friend. I agree with Aerick, in not watning to know my enemies, Fel the elf would not care to talk to orcs, undead and such, but with humans intent on tax collecting, but who never speak of such just attck, hard to rp.

Rp is not pvp, pvp is a by product of RP if done correctly. The Demon of Yew, one of the best rp stories ever in UO, had good rp, some pvp that had a cause, and an end story.

I will defend one thing on the subject of WC answer to the msg board rp. The posts that some made, were to show if Waka was intent enforcing their will on others, why then did their members when encounterd not back up their leaderships words, without pause. I know some stories had the waka "shoguns" running froma fight or two, not to make fun of their pvp, they are decent pvpers, but to show that some of their members were not dedicated to the cause.


another problem with Rp, is the lack of new ideas, no offecnce to the evil people but vampires, undead and orcs, are all that we see. and lack of new ideas on the good peoples sides as well. 8 virtues, justice...is that all we can come up with??

I dont know the answer to the rp problems on siege, I know alot of the talented rp have gone elsewhere. i know one thing i will start to help the process...

[/ QUOTE ]


Aye I agree a lot with what you said here. I especially agree with the part about needing a rp guild or guilds that is evil, like UND or ORC or TAX or whatever. Yes I think WAKA did do a good job with the story, problem is in game I donlt think any of them participated in it. And I didn;t really expect them too but still when your enemy doesnt rp at all like Fel says it does make it harder to rp. Also he made a good point on the end game..it seemed there was no consequences for any of us who lost the war. We just lost then things continued on as normal, it would have been nice if there was some closing to the story..maybe a mini event where we all have to pay taxes to the king or something I donlt know har. Also it would have been nice if maybe when attacking WAKA would have shouted out pay your taxes or maybe sometimes after death..when looting say that you are collecting your taxes!..Yes it would involve a tid bit of rp but not much really. But really that is over and done with but Fel makes a good point on how it is harder to rp with someone thatdoesn;t rp at all then it is with someone that tries. And with the lack of rping bad guys I think it has become where many of the good guys figure well why bothering rping? no one else does.

As for new ideas to rp..aye I agree..there needs to be more, and I am also working to help the process of getting new ideas and rp styles in...

 

[marichessy]

I think some of this goes back to my original statement. Siege these days seems to be a "kill em all, grab the loot" society. It used to be that you knew what to expect when you saw a guild tag. You knew what that character stood for and how they might react when you encounterd them. Now, because guilds have no real charter or beliefs, there is no consistency in the community.

One guild can be filled with honorable and dishonorble, pvp with a purpose and pvp everything that moves, light looters and dry looters, friendly and unfriendly. How can things be solved community wide if no one guild can even agree how to act among each other?

When there were guilds that stood for a purpose it was less difficult to rp too.

A guild would be held accountable in the past for the action of any of their members. Now it seems each guild allows (for lack of a better word) every member to just do their own thing, whatever that may be. Everything that goes on is dealt with on a person to person basis. No guild stands for anything specific anymore.

I don't enjoy pvp without a 'cause'. Attacking anything that moves just for the sake of saying I win, and I got your stuff, is totally not my style. I would much rather pvp to uphold justice, or to defend Mithras, or to foil the tax collections for Lord British. I haven't pvp'd at all in a long time because there just is no reason to anymore. Too much of the fighting these days is like one big epeen, grab what you can get, greed fest.

To me, good vs evil can't exist without a little more structure within guilds. It doesn't even have to be all about the rp. I wish we could discuss things and make Siege go back in time to what it was once but I honestly don't know if it can happen anymore.

 

[Dawn/Kaisa]

Aye I think the lack of consistancy has really hurt Siege. It used to be 99% of the guilds you knew what to expect of their members and if a member did something that they were not supposed to according to their guild charter or what the guild stood for the community made the guild accountable. Now it;s the opposite I think now 99% of the guilds you have no idea how they will treat you or react or what to expect of their members. And guilds have stopped being held accountable for their members actions, most guilds just let their members do whatever and instead of the guild being held accountable as a whole..the member just is. And aye it is hard to solve things community wide when most guilds can;t even decide on acting a certain way or following a charter. I have seen things from guilds or people..in the past year that before would have been unacceptable and the guild would have been held accountable for in times long past. Aye and having guilds that stood for a purpose made rping easier too..hard to rp with most guilds now because you have no idea what to expect.


And aye like you I haven;t really been into pvp much lately. Pvp was more fun for me when it seemed there was a purpose to it. I remember for instance being in KSS and fighting TAX, that to me had a purpose.

Aye I think if the shard wants more good vs evil to exist there does need to be more consistancy within guilds and more accountablity too. I think rp could come back to Siege..just the whole shard not just a few people here and there need to work on creating a enviroment where rp can thrive. But it seems sometimes that there is too many people and guilds that are intent on making sure it CANNOT thrive.

 

[Guest]

No one person is above reproach. I've been known to sling some trashtalk here and there, and I had it done to me last night (albeit all I did was show my face, didn't even participate in the kill)

The fact of the matter is, as much as people like to use guilds to figure out someone's "stance" on the shard, there's always gonna be a rogue or two. Half the guild may be into the whole RP war thing, while the other half is out for phat lewtz. The trick is to find a balance. The whole thing where the shard holds entire guilds accountable for one member's actions is BS. It doesn't work that way. Relationships intermingle between groups on this shard, and believe me, that's a good thing. But to say "Guild X is a bunch of griefing drylooters who don't deserve anyone's respect" is beyond silly.

Again, not naming any names here, but I've seen some of the most respected names on Siege fling some language out that would make the Diceman's toes curl. But, the main thing is to suck it up. Be better than them. The main thing is to have fun. If you're not having fun, don't play. But don't take it upon yourself to tell everyone *else* not to play too, simply because *you* didn't have fun. That's not community, that's elitism, and that elitism is what keeps certain groups from interacting at times. And that's a sad thing. RP was soured to me long before Siege was even created, by certain uber-elite groups of RP'ers on LS. It took a long time for me to even attempt it again. And I found that I suck just as much as before. But there was more of an element of fun to it than before too, because people weren't watching like hawks to make sure I RP'ed the "right" way. That's how I view Siege, more of a "freestyle" shard than any other. What I saw in the posts by the WC vs. WAKA thing was that elitism creeping back in, and it quite frankly, disgusted me.

Of course, my post is going to get picked apart to the point of finding any and all statements here that may contradict things I've said in the past. That's fine. I expect it. I even embrace it, because those are the people with an axe to grind, and I prefer to know who I should trust on this shard rather than wondering.

My $.02, thanks for your time.

P.S. Yasou, you have a great ability hidden in you, and if interested, we can try and set things up for private in-guild sessions to try and keep things fresh. I'm no story-writer, and I can't act a part worth a damn, but I can provide resources and ideas to the best of my ability. Perhaps if we do a few in-guild sessions you'd be less soured to bringing the whole shard in on it. Rules: There are no rules but one, have fun or die trying.

 

[imported_Felinious-CWS]

I don't think it is elitism, im starving for rp on siege, but rp on the msg boards does not count. Its great behind the scenes stuff, and keep the shard up to date, but when you are rping on the fly ingame, that is where the "action" begins. I don't like scripted rp either, ive was involved in that one time for about 15 min, and hated it. That was elitism at it best.

I think what hurt the waka war was lack of respeact between guilds, which led to no effort on honestly both parties to rp. I know I didn't try any banter with them, after the war started. No banter was seen by myself.

I have a great rp idea, but i don't think many would like since it changes their templates, and makes them do something they probably don't wan't to. I'm going to add it to the bad guys brain storming thread, anyway.

 

[marichessy]

<blockquote><hr>

The fact of the matter is, as much as people like to use guilds to figure out someone's "stance" on the shard, there's always gonna be a rogue or two. Half the guild may be into the whole RP war thing, while the other half is out for phat lewtz.

[/ QUOTE ]
I agree that not every person in a guild is going to act the exact same way. There have always been occassional "rogues" in a guild. It's just that now guilds are so varied you can't even begin to know what to expect from them. You have to know each person as an individual rather than the stance of the guild. I just think it makes things harder from an rp standpoint and it has lessened the community aspect of our shard somewhat. At one time you knew all the guilds and knew where most people stood, and I felt in that, a feeling of knowing everyone and of belonging, and where you stood.

<blockquote><hr>

The whole thing where the shard holds entire guilds accountable for one member's actions is BS. It doesn't work that way. But to say "Guild X is a bunch of griefing drylooters who don't deserve anyone's respect" is beyond silly.

[/ QUOTE ]

When I mentioned that thought I wasn't referring to it as in labeling an entire guild griefers, or haxxors, or anything of the kind. I was referring to the rp aspect. You knew TAX were out to collect your gold for Lord British, you knew the Undead where seeking souls, that FoB would have your arse if you were found killing innocent animals, that the Orcs would be looking for tribute, etc, etc.... I just don't find the constant indiscriminate killing fun. I need the story and the reason...the "Why" of the battle. I don't expect everyone on the shard to want to rp. But it's down to nothing atm. Having a few RP guilds to interact with was where the fun was for me.

<blockquote><hr>

What I saw in the posts by the WC vs. WAKA thing was that elitism creeping back in, and it quite frankly, disgusted me.

[/ QUOTE ]

I was having rl medical problems at that time so I am not sure what is in that thread. But, I myself, wouldn't judge the 'way' a person chooses to rp. Not everyone is good at it, I stink at it myself. I enjoy being a part of it and adding what I can and I love playing and rp'ing with someone who is really talented at it. If someone is trying then I give them credit. Everyone has their own level of natural rp talent and everyone has an rp style. It's all good. I don't understand what is meant by elitist rp unless you mean someone was critical about someone else's rp efforts?



In general though, I am just saying I miss those RP guilds. For me they were what made Siege so much fun. I really hope that the new Orcs and Savages will thrive and that more people will be encouraged to make RP guilds and give it a try.

 

[Dawn/Kaisa]

I agree rp stories on the message boards are great and all but they aren;t the same as in game. And it just seems to me that now all the rp just happens on the boards. People come up with these great stories but then nothing like that ever happens in game. And I also donlt think it was rp elitism that was shown..people just rp and express themselves different ways. So other then maybe one or two posts I just saw most of it as people rping friends enemies villians and so forth.

 

[Dawn/Kaisa]

<blockquote><hr>

<blockquote><hr>

The fact of the matter is, as much as people like to use guilds to figure out someone's "stance" on the shard, there's always gonna be a rogue or two. Half the guild may be into the whole RP war thing, while the other half is out for phat lewtz.

[/ QUOTE ]
I agree that not every person in a guild is going to act the exact same way. There have always been occassional "rogues" in a guild. It's just that now guilds are so varied you can't even begin to know what to expect from them. You have to know each person as an individual rather than the stance of the guild. I just think it makes things harder from an rp standpoint and it has lessened the community aspect of our shard somewhat. At one time you knew all the guilds and knew where most people stood, and I felt in that, a feeling of knowing everyone and of belonging, and where you stood.

<blockquote><hr>

The whole thing where the shard holds entire guilds accountable for one member's actions is BS. It doesn't work that way. But to say "Guild X is a bunch of griefing drylooters who don't deserve anyone's respect" is beyond silly.

[/ QUOTE ]

When I mentioned that thought I wasn't referring to it as in labeling an entire guild griefers, or haxxors, or anything of the kind. I was referring to the rp aspect. You knew TAX were out to collect your gold for Lord British, you knew the Undead where seeking souls, that FoB would have your arse if you were found killing innocent animals, that the Orcs would be looking for tribute, etc, etc.... I just don't find the constant indiscriminate killing fun. I need the story and the reason...the "Why" of the battle. I don't expect everyone on the shard to want to rp. But it's down to nothing atm. Having a few RP guilds to interact with was where the fun was for me.

*nods* Aye I wasn;t saying in my post either that it used to be where there were NO rogues in any guilds and you knew exactly what to expect from EVERY member..but for the most part you used to know in general what to expect. Now adays..many guilds have such a hodgepodge of members..all who act and play differently..that you have no idea what to expect. And that does make rping with them harder. Heck it makes interacting with them in general harder I think.

Aye..I also miss the rp. Indiscrimate mass killing, which is all you seem to see nowadays just doesn;t do it for me. I also donlt expect everyone to rp..but has gone from ok there is still plenty of people to rp with to almost nothing. I am currently working on something to help bring this back to the shard and I do wish the Orc and the Savages good luck as well...but I think the attitude of many people here need to change or something needs to change if rp is ever going to trully come back.