Free accounts too restrictive

[imported_Gracie Nito]

<blockquote><hr>

If someone on a trial account can visit all categories (perhaps within a certain area on the map) then they can see different types of lots and buildings. A sandbox area where they can view the build controls and practise might also be an enticement.

I'm in agreement that free accounts should not be able to own a property or build.

A free "trial" account should give people enough of a taste of the game that they want to part with their money to be able to access all areas and do all things available to premium subscribers. IMHO this includes owning and building property.

Polly

[/ QUOTE ]

Polly,

Are you volunteering to live in this special place to meet and greet all these new players that won't have a clue how to play? Who is willing to make this their game life's ambition?

I don't feel that isolating new players to a restricted part of the map will give them a real sense of belonging at all.

 

[imported_DutchAmerica]

Muahaha

I was thinking we could just hand them 8 simoleans for the potty and send them to your house Gracie!

(j/k....we should give them 16 just in case. LOL)

 

[imported_Gracie Nito]

Yeah. They'll need the extra $8 to get back out if they can't figure out how to use elevators.

 

[Keep It Real]

<blockquote><hr>

Muahaha

I was thinking we could just hand them 8 simoleans for the potty and send them to your house Gracie!

(j/k....we should give them 16 just in case. LOL)

[/ QUOTE ]
'

HA HA HA HA, I love the idea!

 

[Guest]

<blockquote><hr>


Polly,

Are you volunteering to live in this special place to meet and greet all these new players that won't have a clue how to play? Who is willing to make this their game life's ambition?

I don't feel that isolating new players to a restricted part of the map will give them a real sense of belonging at all.

[/ QUOTE ]

Maybe if EA want to offer me an incentive for doing so then I might ! I've only played two other online games and both run an incentive scheme for experienced players to help newbies. Both also have a newbie friendly area where they can go and learn about the game and in one case (Toontown) you have to upgrade to full subscription to move on to other cities/locations on the map.

Its been a while since I've checked the wiki but I seem to remember lots of ideas for downtown areas and community lots etc. With the ability to upload custom content, it would take very little effort to create a welcome property with lots of signs and useful information. Who knows? With the way the game is changing, maybe new players will be able to click on their UI and bring up some online guides and they won't need someone to hand hold them every step of the way. Lets face it, it really doesn't take long to learn the basics of how to play.

Polly

 

[imported_LFancey]

Hi,

I saw this thread over the weekend a few minutes after my conversation in the game with karaokegod73.

Greg and I discussed it and we thought it would be good to make this a thought exercise.

But first: This is the starting position with free accounts. One of the most exploitable aspects of the game has been free accounts and our first goal is to make it "safe" for both you and EA. We take your money seriously and it needs to be protected. Along these lines we will not even allow free players into EA-Land when it opens. So just to be clear. Step one is to pull free play all the way back to where it is safe for everyone. Once we have it safe we will start to expand on what "free" can do.

Basically you can not make it lucrative to have multiple free accounts. And by lucrative we mean from a bot or simolean farm perspective. We are using computers so you must think in terms of “scale and automation”

Bottom line: The free account can hold no “value” relative to a subscribing account. If it does the “bad” guys simply scale. (Meaning they use 1000 of them for example).

So we understand this is a hard problem. That is why we are talking about it with you on the boards and in game. We very much want to make it a good experience for free players. But actually we should stop thinking in terms of “Free” and start thinking in terms of “micro transaction” players, but this is beside the point.

Here are some of the ideas we are batting around.

-One free, non-negotiable lot to each player.
-Free objects in inventory or maybe even the catalogue.
-A coupon that must be redeemed at an EA lot or maybe even community sanctioned places.
-And others…

What we need to think about is how these might be exploited as well as other ideas that are “Immune” from abuse.

In summary let me reiterate:
-Priority 1 (Make it safe)
-Priority 2 (Expand for free play)

Cheers,

Lee and Greg

 

[MandiK]

That is great Lee

 

[Guest]

Thank you Lee for clearing that up for Everyone.

 

[imported_Gracie Nito]

Let me simplify that list for ya Lee.


Free play has access to everything in game except cashout feature and trade interactions. Every hour on the hour they receive in-game notice they have 15 minutes to spend their simloeans. When time clock runs down...all remaining money is wiped from visitors.


How's that?

 

[imported_Phoenix_Rising]

I remember in THERE.Com, you started out with a small amount of cash as a trial player, could spend it wherever you liked, but could not trade your money with anyone. Subscribers could give you MORE money if they wished, but not vise versa. Why not just make this so? You can put all trial accounts in a separate cash pool as well.

 

[AmberRoseAV]

I think free accounts should be able to:
--visit any lot category
--earn as much money as they can
--use any object including group money
--have a job
--become a roomie
--set out items with a low object limit

They should not be able to:
--have skill locks
--trade or set items for sale
--buy from the catalogue
--be granted build rights
--buy lots
--create custom content

 

[Guest]

<blockquote><hr>

Hi,

I saw this thread over the weekend a few minutes after my conversation in the game with karaokegod73.

Greg and I discussed it and we thought it would be good to make this a thought exercise.

But first: This is the starting position with free accounts. One of the most exploitable aspects of the game has been free accounts and our first goal is to make it "safe" for both you and EA. We take your money seriously and it needs to be protected. Along these lines we will not even allow free players into EA-Land when it opens. So just to be clear. Step one is to pull free play all the way back to where it is safe for everyone. Once we have it safe we will start to expand on what "free" can do.

Basically you can not make it lucrative to have multiple free accounts. And by lucrative we mean from a bot or simolean farm perspective. We are using computers so you must think in terms of “scale and automation”

Bottom line: The free account can hold no “value” relative to a subscribing account. If it does the “bad” guys simply scale. (Meaning they use 1000 of them for example).

So we understand this is a hard problem. That is why we are talking about it with you on the boards and in game. We very much want to make it a good experience for free players. But actually we should stop thinking in terms of “Free” and start thinking in terms of “micro transaction” players, but this is beside the point.

Here are some of the ideas we are batting around.

-One free, non-negotiable lot to each player.
-Free objects in inventory or maybe even the catalogue.
-A coupon that must be redeemed at an EA lot or maybe even community sanctioned places.
-And others…

What we need to think about is how these might be exploited as well as other ideas that are “Immune” from abuse.

In summary let me reiterate:
-Priority 1 (Make it safe)
-Priority 2 (Expand for free play)

Cheers,

Lee and Greg

[/ QUOTE ]
Don't make it harder than it has to be. The 'free' or 'micro transaction' account only has to give people a taste of the game, there is no need to make a 'memorable' experience that consumes resources and development time.
A simple, highly restricted account can do that.

1. When creating - the name of the sim is assigned randomly by the game (like "TCFancey12102007". This keeps more creative names free for use by subscribers. If an account is upgraded to 'subscriber', the player has the option to re-name his/her sim.
2. May not own a lot. This means lots would not remain in limbo for 3 months if the player decided to quit. It also decides the issue of trial players having roomies ( trial players or subscribers) on their lot.
3. May not be a roomie. Decides the issue of becoming a lot owner if the original owner moves out. Also removes the possible exploitation of visitor hours.
4. May not use a job object. Removes the possibility of using trials to boost the multi-sim payout on solo objects, or dummies on pizza, maze, etc. And since they can not make any money, there is no money exploit possible, nor is there any tied up in limbo when a trial quits.
4a. An alternative - can use the money objects, but may not use any means of transferring money to another sim, such as tip jars, trade interaction, give money, etc. Money is wiped when player logs-off. This way has possible exploit problems such as paying for food, pay doors, buying from stores, etc., but since 'cash-out' will not be enabled in TC3, this may not be so important.
5. No skill locks - When reaching the magic "10" skill points, their skills decay normally.
6. Possibly, a sandbox area to demo building, as suggested by Gilly - wiped when player logs off.

These are just samples - the point is to simply restrict the accounts using as little coding/effort as possible. All anybody needs is to see the game in action, with a taste of participation, it is not necessary (or even desirable, from a development/resource allocation point of view) to encode a whole bunch of new parameters.
I say this with the assumption that you are NOT talking about a "free" account that has "limited" features along the lines of, say... Pirates of the Carribbean.

 

[Guest]

The basic abuses, as I understood them, were:

*Muling ~ using free accounts to transfer property/inventory or hold property/inventory, including rare lots.

*Visitor hours ~ using free accounts to artificially pump up visitor hours to get the bonus. (<font color="green">with the visitor hours bonus gone, this one seems taken care of.</font>)

*Neighborhoods ~ using free accounts to pump up a neighborhood and get the name on the map.

*Friending ~ using free accounts to put the main Sim on the Popularity list...to get the bonus.

*Griefing ~ using multiple free trials to harass another player (constantly remaking to avoid bans and ignore).

*Scamming~ using multiple free trials to scam players and violate ToS with impunity.

*Money exploit ~ using multiple trials to acquire free start up money.

It seems to me, that:

* <u>Disabling the transaction (give money and transfer) feature on the UI</u>, would control inventory muling, transferring free money and scamming. (tip jars should also be disabled, on free trial accounts)

* <u>Property ownership limits</u> (size, location &amp; option limits to what they can do with a property) would stop property muling, neighborhood pumping.

* <u>Eliminating the top 100 list bonuses</u> pretty much took care of the Friending and Visitor hours, exploits.

*<u>No start-up money</u> on Free Trials would inhibit the start up money exploit.

*<u>Money cap</u> with everything over a certain amount (§1k) not being recorded, would address an assortment of ills.

I know Gracie wants to encourage them to roomie with the larger community, but it would be too simple to make a free trial into a roomie, then leave the roomie as owner, after the property has been named, described and attached to a neighborhood...repeatedly. Allowing rare lots to be tied up by trials and/or giving trials a roundabout access to neighborhood pumping.

Not sure what would control using trials for personal griefing. Anyone else have ideas on that one?

 

[imported_DutchAmerica]

<blockquote><hr>


*Muling ~ using free accounts to transfer property/inventory or hold property/inventory, including rare lots.


[/ QUOTE ]

Maybe the devs should raise the price of those hay stalks? It would make it harder to feed the mules?

LMAO!!!

Sorry, felt a bit goofy when I read that. But you raise valid points.

 

[imported_LFancey]

<blockquote><hr>


Free play has access to everything in game except cashout feature and trade interactions. Every hour on the hour they receive in-game notice they have 15 minutes to spend their simloeans. When time clock runs down...all remaining money is wiped from visitors.


[/ QUOTE ]

Ok good lets start the thought experiement. So let us all think about the opposite side with the following constraint you must keep it simple (KIS). The best solutions tend to be simple to understand, simple to implement, and simple to monitor.

-What are all possible ways this is exploitable?
-How is the "pay as you go player" microtransactable?
-How could a farmer or botter take advantage of this?
-How might this hurt paying subscribers?
-Anything else?

Cheers,

Lee

 

[Guest]

<blockquote><hr>


Here are some of the ideas we are batting around.

-One free, non-negotiable lot to each player.
-Free objects in inventory or maybe even the catalogue.
-A coupon that must be redeemed at an EA lot or maybe even community sanctioned places.
-And others…



[/ QUOTE ]

I like the idea of a free small, non-expandable lot....that would convert back to MOMI upon subscription, with a subscribing bonus to equal what they put into it?
I like the idea of free objects, perhaps a mini-catalog, giving them a choice between 2 or 3 styles on each of the basic furnishings, PJ's, swimsuit.
From the same basic catalog, they could *buy* more, with their earnings, all of which they would be able to keep when they subscribe.

I also like a mini-build catalog, with choices limited to the first 10 tiles, plants, and miscellanious build items.

All of this should show the full catalog of items, that they could have if they subscribed.

[edited to add]....F2 or buy function on Free Trial UI would be disabled...they can look at stores, but they can not buy at stores...only from the Trial catalog.

 

[Guest]

<blockquote><hr>

-What are all possible ways this is exploitable?

[/ QUOTE ]

Main account could make a store and have the trial account buy stuff in their store. Multiply that by many accounts and it becomes a profitble exploit.

 

[nobuttkisser]

why do I feel like you "complaners" want to find more ways to cheat... I'm glad that maxis is getting rid of any and all ways to bot or cheat... main reason why they are eliminating simoleans that we currently have.... if the game is to start out fresh then that means get rid of those areas of play that catered to cheating..... way to go Maxis keep up the good work

 

[imported_Gracie Nito]

<blockquote><hr>

<blockquote><hr>

-What are all possible ways this is exploitable?

[/ QUOTE ]

Main account could make a store and have the trial account buy stuff in their store. Multiply that by many accounts and it becomes a profitble exploit.

[/ QUOTE ]

Then limit the amount of simoleans a free player can make per week to just 500 simoleans. If they spend that it will help pay our welfare checks

Don't forget the store owner has to drain some money out of the economy by purchasing items for their free alts to buy.


I just don't like the idea of new players playing in a utopia world then deciding to subscribe and find out things work a little differently in the real world. It's like all the new players that have come from the reg cities to TC3 the last few months. They joined the game and were taught people would just hand money out to them like it was nothing.

 

[imported_LFancey]

Then limit the amount of simoleans a free player can make per week to just 500 simoleans

--Ok so reduce from 1000 to 500... How could a botter/farmer overcome this? "Think automation scale"

PS Gracie I hope you don't think I am picking on you.. I am not I just want to see if we can play through the senarios on these suggestions.

 

[imported_Gracie Nito]

<blockquote><hr>

Then limit the amount of simoleans a free player can make per week to just 500 simoleans

--Ok so reduce from 1000 to 500... How could a botter/farmer overcome this? "Think automation scale"

PS Gracie I hope you don't think I am picking on you.. I am not I just want to see if we can play through the senarios on these suggestions.

[/ QUOTE ]

No no. I get it. Even if reduced to 500 max per week that can earn the farmer with 1000 accounts 500,000 simoleans a week.

So in order to make those simoleans worthless you have to have a different place for those simoleans to go. Not part of the EA-Land Economy. Those simoleans have to go directly back to MOMI.

Is it not possible for free players to earn "EAmoleans" for building and buying things from Gilly's MOMI catalog? Limited catalog of EA merchandise for lease.
It has to be a lease because all of these items purchased with EAmoleans will go poof if they decide to subscribe. Now while they are playing on their little lots and earning Eamolians right along side subscribers, they decide they need some custom object they saw in a store. They purchase "simoleans" to buy this object. Items purchased with simoleans will stay with account if it turns into a subscriber account. EAmoleans and lease EA merchandise just gets wiped out.



Why can't they work along side subscribers learning the game, working on objects, skilling and working in job tracks and just be paid in EAmoleans instead of Simoleans?

 

[Guest]

I had thought of this alternative currency idea before, when there was nobody to listen. I hope it is picked up now

 

[Guest]

This is just an idea. What if free players, had no way to earn money. They had a catalog of a select few items they could have for free. If they wanted simoleans, they would have to buy them. They could do everything everybody else could, except they could not trade with other players. This way they could craft and everything, and they could keep everything when they move to a subscriber. Thus eliminating any way for botting. I think. If someone sees a way please let me know.

 

[Keep It Real]

Oh I like this idea Gilly and Gracie.

 

[imported_Gracie Nito]

<blockquote><hr>

This is just an idea. What if free players, had no way to earn money. They had a catalog of a select few items they could have for free. If they wanted simoleans, they would have to buy them. They could do everything everybody else could, except they could not trade with other players. This way they could craft and everything, and they could keep everything when they move to a subscriber. Thus eliminating any way for botting. I think. If someone sees a way please let me know.

[/ QUOTE ]

If they have no way to earn things, how would they learn this is how we play the game?

 

[Guest]

They would play just like we would. Do everything subscribers do. But only have access to 1 type of bed, 1 type of chair and so on. That way, all free players get the same things. They can see all the subscriber stuff, just can't own any of it. This would be an incentive. Also, the money thing would be an incentive as well. That is just the way I think. It would make a wall that would stop botting and allow free player to do everything we as subscribers do without the ability to own it or trade it.

 

[Guest]

In other words, they have the same ways to earn money that we do, except that none of them work.

 

[Guest]

Essentially they can go to the jobs, they just earn no money, but...

They can help out at the jobs earning the subscribers mo' money. Because botting a job would be IMO, very very very very difficult. Not to mention you can only have at most 6 sims on a job(robot factory)(I could be wrong).




Edit: To add something I forgot and spelling.

 

[imported_LFancey]

This is breaking the KIS constraint, multiple currency/tokens/tickets call them what you will.

If EAMoleans are in the game they will have value. If something has value they will get exploited.

If we make them worthless then why have them? Double the work here to code, test, and track possible exploits.

Remember... These could/will be "pay as you go players"

Good thoughts..

 

[imported_LFancey]

"They can help out at the jobs earning the subscribers mo' money."

How could this be exploited?

 

[Guest]

I guess I understand how could it be exploited. Well, I guess that would involve someone trying to test it. You can have 6 people at the robot factory. Try out 1 subscriber and 5 free accounts. Can someone effectively run the factory through 6 different windows and if so, how much extra money could they really earn? I don't think it would more than maybe an extra 30 to 50 extra simoleans a shift. And I don't believe you could bot a sim job. That is just me.

 

[imported_LFancey]

One thing to add.

We must partion the TSO money game "pool". It basically boils down to free/microtransacting/pay as go players can't play the TSO money game. They can play the "economy" game. Which is to say they can speculate on objects, make custom content, buy custom content, participate in auctions etc. But they can't suck up "pizza" money with out "buying in" to the pizza game.

The TSO money game must be reserved for those that pay for it ("buy in").

Cheers,

Lee

 

[Keep It Real]

Could always make em play just in EJ.

 

[TKSpeedy1]

<blockquote><hr>

why do I feel like you "complaners" want to find more ways to cheat... I'm glad that maxis is getting rid of any and all ways to bot or cheat... main reason why they are eliminating simoleans that we currently have.... if the game is to start out fresh then that means get rid of those areas of play that catered to cheating..... way to go Maxis keep up the good work

[/ QUOTE ]

Oh please! The one thing I always liked about TSO is that I could play the game how I wanted with the items Maxis/EA provided us with. This is a GAME. Unfortunately, people are bound to find ways to cheat no matter what you do. But if they keep taking more and more away from us to prevent any type of cheating, I'm afraid there won't be any game left for us to enjoy. At least not anything I would recognize or want to play. Wise up, Maxis, before you lose a lot of valuable loyal players!

 

[coyoteee]

<blockquote><hr>

<blockquote><hr>

In my conversation with Lee I found out that free account sims will be restricted to residential lots, which means all they will be able to do is hang out and chat. They will also not be able to build their own lot, even residential. Which leaves me with the following questions:

1) Who will host the residential lots that will be required for these people to play?

2) What "bait" will there be to entice people into a paid account? If these are new people coming into the game, and there are no "trial accounts" with more features, they will not have much of an experience to decide upon.

3) What would they do with the bonus simoleans they receive, if you can't buy anything anywhere other than at a store?

I know there's reasons there needs to be restrictions, but I think the problems with allowing certain things need to be handled another way. New players will not find enough fun to cause them to subscribe, in my opinion....
-----------------------------------

I get free samples of skin creme in the mail all the time. It's usually enough to do one cheek. Freepers can visit other homes and see what can be done if you pay. That's your bait. Why should they get to do all that we paying customers get to do?

[/ QUOTE ]

LOL that is a hilarious comparison.

[/ QUOTE ]

Where's my TSO-brand skin cream? O.O

 

[coyoteee]

<blockquote><hr>

Inability to purchase land solves the problems of free users filling our maps with stupid neighborhood names. However, I believe they should be able to be a roomy anywhere.

Having a city full of homeless free players would open up the businesses of running hotels and renting condominiums. We've always had a shortage of roomies because everyone wants to purchase land and build their own.

In order to prevent subscribers from using free accounts to help their subscriber account earn money like creating a pizza team , there must be restrictions on earning potential of free players. If the plan is to restrict free players from earning money then they will have little need to skill either.

If free players cannot make money, have no need for skill, cannot purchase land or experience building, then what is left for them to do? Sit in a residential lot and chat. LOL.

I suggest...

Free players have no skill locks at all.
Once they get 10 skill points they will have to fight skill decay.

Free players have limited amount of money they can earn per day.
No more than 1k simoleans can be earned in 24 hour period.

Free players cannot purchase land with simoleans however may purchase a size 1 lot with real cash from EA.
If they want to pay to own their own place, then let them pay real cash.

Free players cannot expand their lot.
Incentive to build bigger places goes to subscribers.

Free players can live anywhere as a roomy.
Helps subscribers find roomies and helps free players learn advantages of subscribing.

Free players do not have access to trade interaction.
Prevents subscribers from abusing free accounts.

[/ QUOTE ]

Gracie. You're a genius. I knew there was a reason I adore you.

Here here!

~Coy

 

[Guest]

Valuable players would be paying players. Which would defeat the purpose of free accounts.

I do agree that it sucks that adjustments constantly have to be made to deter the cheaters. But there are many who believe that the cheaters are what caused the major disruption of this game. Again, from reading these boards all these years I can't count the amount of "Stop the cheaters" "stop the free trial account abuse" posts I have read.

I assure you if there was a way to track the amount of free trials started by actual new people interested in the game, compared to people using it for abusive reasons... the numbers would pale in comparison.

I am absolutely sure there is a way that a free player can experience the game without exploiting it, and I hope that this community offers its suggestions to EA to find the best way to do this. Complete restriction seems harsh but restriction, to me, seems very necessary.

I know that I don't want to pay monthly for my account while some free riding mofo gets the same game as me.

 

[imported_Gracie Nito]

Something is screwed up in the priority list then. The free account system that gives people access to just watch us play the game at this point is pretty boring. It all comes back to the girl the other night that has full access to everything we currently have in game. She asks, "What is there to do?"

For a subscriber I can answer that question.

For a free player....What is the answer?

 

[TKSpeedy1]

<blockquote><hr>

Valuable players would be paying players. Which would defeat the purpose of free accounts.

[/ QUOTE ]

Ok, this kind of attitude worries me. You only consider PAYING players "valuable"? Please tell me you are joking. Or at the very least, you don't work for Maxis/EA. Because if Maxis/EA has this attitude, we're in more trouble than I thought. I would consider ANY player "valuable". A player with a free account is just as valuable as an existing paying customer. If I were Maxis/EA, I would be more worried about getting a free player to be a paying player. Which means, I would do whatever it took to get them to become a paying customer. (Including letting them try out EVERY feature...except maybe buying a property...for a limited time)

<blockquote><hr>

I do agree that it sucks that adjustments constantly have to be made to deter the cheaters. But there are many who believe that the cheaters are what caused the major disruption of this game. Again, from reading these boards all these years I can't count the amount of "Stop the cheaters" "stop the free trial account abuse" posts I have read.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't blame the cheaters...I blame Maxis/EA for not being on top of things and stopping the simolean cheat when it first started. And I still don't believe for a minute that the wipe is due to the cheaters and to put us all on an equal playing field...More like Maxis/EA is getting greedy..Face it..selling simoleans is selling simoleans no matter who is selling. But because it is now Maxis/EA, it's ok...Sounds like a double standard to me. Also, it doesn't help matters that you can re-create every 7 days...which means Anyone can create an account, ask someone to hold their money/items for them, delete and re-create every 7 days, come back and get the money/items back that is being held for them. The cheaters can't be blamed for that one since re-creating (which is also a problem for those of us being harassed by players re-creating) is a TSO feature implemented by Maxis/EA.

And BTW, whatever happened to what Parizad e-mailed me? She said that under the new TOS, players would be allowed to sell simoleans.

 

[TKSpeedy1]

<blockquote><hr>

Something is screwed up in the priority list then. The free account system that gives people access to just watch us play the game at this point is pretty boring. It all comes back to the girl the other night that has full access to everything we currently have in game. She asks, "What is there to do?"


[/ QUOTE ]

We agree again...twice in one day...Who knew?

Anyway, yes...I agree...the free account system makes no sense. How can you decide if you want to play the game if you can't experience it for yourself. I personally wouldn't want someone to just tell me about it. I'd want to take it for a test drive myself to see if it was something I would want to spend my money on.

 

[TKSpeedy1]

Just a thought off the top of my head..and remember it's 1 a.m. here, so my thoughts haven't exactly "gelled" yet. But anyway...how about letting the free account players have access to all features (except owning property), BUT wiping their simoleans every so often so they would need to start over? Like I said, it is just a thought...I'll try to come up with something better.

 

[Guest]

like lee said, keep it simple. wiping their simoleans every so often isn't simple. and it still leaves a huge amount of room for exploitation.

 

[Guest]

<blockquote><hr>

<blockquote><hr>

Valuable players would be paying players. Which would defeat the purpose of free accounts.

[/ QUOTE ]

Ok, this kind of attitude worries me. You only consider PAYING players "valuable"? Please tell me you are joking. Or at the very least, you don't work for Maxis/EA. Because if Maxis/EA has this attitude, we're in more trouble than I thought. I would consider ANY player "valuable". A player with a free account is just as valuable as an existing paying customer. If I were Maxis/EA, I would be more worried about getting a free player to be a paying player. Which means, I would do whatever it took to get them to become a paying customer. (Including letting them try out EVERY feature...except maybe buying a property...for a limited time)

<blockquote><hr>

I do agree that it sucks that adjustments constantly have to be made to deter the cheaters. But there are many who believe that the cheaters are what caused the major disruption of this game. Again, from reading these boards all these years I can't count the amount of "Stop the cheaters" "stop the free trial account abuse" posts I have read.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't blame the cheaters...I blame Maxis/EA for not being on top of things and stopping the simolean cheat when it first started. And I still don't believe for a minute that the wipe is due to the cheaters and to put us all on an equal playing field...More like Maxis/EA is getting greedy..Face it..selling simoleans is selling simoleans no matter who is selling. But because it is now Maxis/EA, it's ok...Sounds like a double standard to me. Also, it doesn't help matters that you can re-create every 7 days...which means Anyone can create an account, ask someone to hold their money/items for them, delete and re-create every 7 days, come back and get the money/items back that is being held for them. The cheaters can't be blamed for that one since re-creating (which is also a problem for those of us being harassed by players re-creating) is a TSO feature implemented by Maxis/EA.

And BTW, whatever happened to what Parizad e-mailed me? She said that under the new TOS, players would be allowed to sell simoleans.

[/ QUOTE ]

I do not work for EA/Maxis.
But the company I do work for is very focused on profit. We make an amazing profit.
And if a client doesn't pay in their net 30/60/90 w/e... they lose value to us. You can't run a company on good will.
Free trials in the gaming industry are offered as a way to entice players to play the game, pay for the game, so that a company can make it's profit. I've played other online games free trials. they are always somewhat limited. Other online games that I have played have been very very different from TSO in many aspects... so I'd assume that the free account you would get to play for TSO would have to suit the game.

If a corporation today (or ever really) started being more concerned about free players, I'd be concerned. I don't expect anything less than what I get from a corporations. "We want your money. What can we do to get your money? How can we keep you giving us your money?"
If you believe that there is any other motive than getting your money into their bank then I apologize.

To say that they should have stopped cheaters and bots and exploiters long ago is beating that good ole dead horse. Nobody here has a time machine. I guarantee if things in the past could be changed there would be a laundry list on EA's side. Unfortunately we can only move forward. EA as a corporation could (and is obviously) look at the history of the game they produced, see where the flaws are, what caused them to stop making a profit, keeping players in game and drawing new players and learn from it. EA as a corporation will look at other similar games that have a similar player base and find out what they are doing to remain successful.

Thats what happens. They then take people and place them on the project. These people work for them and draw a paycheck so they can drive their cars, feed their kids and pay their mortgages. Those people leave work, go home and live life. They come back to work the next day read your posts, take some notes and move on.

It is a business TK speedy. Profit is why people go into business. EA is not in business so some fourteen year old can write "MAFIA OWNZ" in whatever city and have a number one house. I've been limited in other games, and I've subscribed.

I don't know about your email from Parizad.
So.. can't help you there.

 

[Guest]

<blockquote><hr>

This is breaking the KIS constraint, multiple currency/tokens/tickets call them what you will.

If EAMoleans are in the game they will have value. If something has value they will get exploited.

If we make them worthless then why have them? Double the work here to code, test, and track possible exploits.

Remember... These could/will be "pay as you go players"

Good thoughts..

[/ QUOTE ]
"Don't make it harder than it has to be. The 'free' or 'micro transaction' account only has to give people a taste of the game, there is no need to make a 'memorable' experience that consumes resources and development time.
A simple, highly restricted account can do that.

1. When creating - the name of the sim is assigned randomly by the game (like "TCFancey12102007". This keeps more creative names free for use by subscribers. If an account is upgraded to 'subscriber', the player has the option to re-name his/her sim.
2. May not own a lot. This means lots would not remain in limbo for 3 months if the player decided to quit. It also decides the issue of trial players having roomies ( trial players or subscribers) on their lot.
3. May not be a roomie. Decides the issue of becoming a lot owner if the original owner moves out. Also removes the possible exploitation of visitor hours.
4. May not use a job object. Removes the possibility of using trials to boost the multi-sim payout on solo objects, or dummies on pizza, maze, etc. And since they can not make any money, there is no money exploit possible, nor is there any tied up in limbo when a trial quits.
4a. An alternative - can use the money objects, but may not use any means of transferring money to another sim, such as tip jars, trade interaction, give money, etc. Money is wiped when player logs-off. This way has possible exploit problems such as paying for food, pay doors, buying from stores, etc., but since 'cash-out' will not be enabled in TC3, this may not be so important.
5. No skill locks - When reaching the magic "10" skill points, their skills decay normally.
6. Possibly, a sandbox area to demo building, as suggested by Gilly - wiped when player logs off.

These are just samples - the point is to simply restrict the accounts using as little coding/effort as possible. All anybody needs is to see the game in action, with a taste of participation, it is not necessary (or even desirable, from a development/resource allocation point of view) to encode a whole bunch of new parameters.
I say this with the assumption that you are NOT talking about a "free" account that has "limited" features along the lines of, say... Pirates of the Carribbean."

...ahem...

 

[Keep It Real]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
He be so brane.....sometimes.

 

[imported_Spacey]

I was confused. Aren't free accounts restricted to TC3 only? Are we talking about after the merge and free accounts will be allowed within the big city? Why not continue to restrict them to TC3. I have some thoughts.

Since TC3 is not participating in the buying and selling of simoleans in real life, and TC3 sims will be unable to move out of TC3, why not let the free account be restricted to TC3 after the merge. They would be able to skill, make money, own lots, experience every bit of what the game would be like...plus test out new things! TC3 is an adequate showing of what the game is like, more adequate then sticking them in EAland with nothing to do, nothing to own and thinking, this is boring...why would I want to pay for this. Sure, they might not run into a lot of people because most of us might be playing within EAland at that time, but that is one of the teasers.... Pay to join everyone in EAland where the fun is at. Who knows, TC3 might still stay nice and populated. I lived in TC for a long time as my main city and enjoyed it.

If TC3 needs to stay open for experienced players to test bugs, and not overpopulated by newbies, maybe the devs can come up with a NewbieLand.... Free accounts can have the ability to make money, skill, no bonus, unable to buy or sell simoleans. When they decide they want to pay to play, they can move their sim to EALand with the same mechanism we move our sims with from city to city. Of course, everything would be wiped upon departure from Newbieland...age and even skill points. This would lower free account abuse from paying customers too. No paying player would have any advantage of creating a sim for a newbie world.

 

[TKSpeedy1]

<blockquote><hr>

<blockquote><hr>

<blockquote><hr>

I do not work for EA/Maxis. But the company I do work for is very focused on profit. We make an amazing profit.
And if a client doesn't pay in their net 30/60/90 w/e... they lose value to us. You can't run a company on good will.

[/ QUOTE ]

You're right. You can't run a company on good will. However, you can make it so people will want to become a customer. And in the case of TSO (which I admit is different than other online games or companies), you need to let them experience all of the features (At least to a limited extent) if you have any hope of them paying for the whole thing. It's either that or have them subscribe only to unsubscribe because they don't like it, which means Maxis/EA loses money anyway.



<blockquote><hr>

If a corporation today (or ever really) started being more concerned about free players, I'd be concerned. I don't expect anything less than what I get from a corporations. "We want your money. What can we do to get your money? How can we keep you giving us your money?"
If you believe that there is any other motive than getting your money into their bank then I apologize.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is what I don't get, and basically, you answered your own question. Free players SHOULD be a major concern because they have the potential of becoming PAYING customers. But only if they like the product enough to pay for it, which means they need to try out the entire product to see if they like it.

<blockquote><hr>

To say that they should have stopped cheaters and bots and exploiters long ago is beating that good ole dead horse. Nobody here has a time machine. I guarantee if things in the past could be changed there would be a laundry list on EA's side. Unfortunately we can only move forward.

[/ QUOTE ]

Hey, I never said that EA has a time machine and could go back. Yes, I know what I said is beating a dead horse, but stlll...I said it because I wanted to point out that SOME of this is Maxis'/EA's fault, and we need to stop blaming the cheaters for EVERYTHING that went wrong. I would like to see EA/Maxis take some responsibility for not being on top of things for once instead of passing the buck and blaming the cheaters for EVERYTHING that went wrong. So far, that hasn't happened.

<blockquote><hr>

EA as a corporation could (and is obviously) look at the history of the game they produced, see where the flaws are, what caused them to stop making a profit, keeping players in game and drawing new players and learn from it. EA as a corporation will look at other similar games that have a similar player base and find out what they are doing to remain successful.

[/ QUOTE ]

And if they had done that and kept on top of things from the beginning, we wouldn't be where we are, would we? They dropped the ball and have yet to admit it.

<blockquote><hr>

EA is not in business so some fourteen year old can write "MAFIA OWNZ" in whatever city and have a number one house.

[/ QUOTE ]

But yet, this is what happens and has happened for years. I personally have complained about property/neighborhood names as well as inapropriate sim names for years, but nothing has been done. And then they expect ME to respect THEIR decisions when they completely change a game I love? Sorry, not gonna happen.

<blockquote><hr>

I don't know about your email from Parizad.
So.. can't help you there.

[/ QUOTE ]

It basically said what I said....According to the new TOS, we will be allowed to buy simoleans from other players. I find this amusing since EA/Maxis has made a huge deal about buying simoleans from other players in the past and blamed that for part of the cheat...and now they are allowing it. Seems like they are contradicting themselves.

 

[TKSpeedy1]

<blockquote><hr>

like lee said, keep it simple. wiping their simoleans every so often isn't simple. and it still leaves a huge amount of room for exploitation.

[/ QUOTE ]

How can you say it isn't simple since they've figured out how to wipe our simoleans for the merge? All they have to do is crawl into the system and wipe the free accounts every week, every other week, or every month...however often they choose to do it? Oh, wait...So sorry...that would require that they be on top of things like they should've been the past 5 years. Heaven knows they can't do that. That would mean they'd have to do WORK instead of blaming the players for the cheats. Can't have that now, can we?

 

[Guest]

I'm sorry if this has already been suggested but what if free accounts could do all the things paying accounts could do (i.e. jobs) but earned no money for them. They would still get the popup message stating how much they <u>would have</u> earned, but zero simoleans are deposited into their account.

Free accounts would still be able to buy and sell simoleans with EA so they could experience everything else. That's the only way they could get simoleans.

In this scenario, could someone use free accounts to drive up the price of simoleans? Then dump them to drive down the price?

 

[Guest]

<blockquote><hr>

I think free accounts should be able to:
--visit any lot category
--earn as much money as they can
--use any object including group money
--have a job
--become a roomie
--set out items with a low object limit

They should not be able to:
--have skill locks
--trade or set items for sale
--buy from the catalogue
--be granted build rights
--buy lots
--create custom content

[/ QUOTE ]

I have to disagree on a few points here...

<blockquote><hr>

--earn as much money as they can

[/ QUOTE ]

Free accounts should NOT be able to earn as much money as they can since this cause endless problems and a motive for new botters and scammers to join the game. Free accounts should have a cap of maybe a max of 10k, it will be even better if its even lower.

However, they SHOULD be able to create custom content in sandboxes as it will attract many new players.

My list would be..

Free accounts should be able to..
- Visit any lots in any categories
- Become roomies
- Get involved in any group objects, but gain minimal money from it. (maybe half what is normal gained?)
- Create custom content in sandboxes.


Free accounts should <u>NOT</u> be able to..
- Own houses
- Build (however they will be able to see the build mode and wats in it, but it will be locked)
- Trade
- Have more than 5 or 10k.
- Have skill locks.
- Own objects that costs over 2k?

--- Free accounts wont affect the house's visitor hours. So that owners wont have endless free accounts to put them in their house to gain visitor hours/minutes.