Confirmation of the Use of Health Scripts in PvP

[Llewen]

I've been waging a war against the use of scripts in pvp for a long time. I've asserted that I could tell when players were using them, and I've asserted at times that I thought it was one of the most serious cheating issues in the game - I would say duping and scripted resource gathering and quests are probably the most serious, but in pvp the use of all kinds of scripts is the most serious issue.

While I've been waging this little war I've been told numerous times that I don't know what I'm talking about, and that no one who is any good uses scripts in pvp, so much so that I had begun to doubt myself and wonder if maybe I was wrong. Well, I just had my suspicions confirmed quite emphatically - someone who I was certain was using health scripts, someone who was extremely "skilled" and extremely hard to kill, has openly admitted to me in a context that removes all doubt, that he used them, just exactly as I thought he did.

I'm not sure that health scripts specifically are being used as much as they were three or four years ago, but I am once again going to be sharply on the lookout for the evidence that they are being used. The most common cheat used in pvp is probably the infamous "speed hack" but they still don't allow anyone to break the capped movement rates which are set server side. If you use the enhanced client as I do, this is pretty obvious. In my opinion the use of scripts in pvp is still the issue of competitive fairness that has the most impact.

 

[Picus of Napa]

Are you starting this troll fest again? Were you not asked to "drop it" last time. According to the information that I have seen from the Dev team there is no problems with cheating as per the great spreadsheet and hence your posting is a waste of time.

 

[FishinFool]

It does not impact me directly, but to say people are not scripting in PvP is willful ignorance.

I've seen enough examples of it myself and I'm not even looking for it.

 

[funkymonkey]

Great thanks for telling us.

What now?

 

[Llewen]

Great thanks for telling us.

What now?

Well, all we can do is keep posting as I have to make sure that the devs don't think this issue is fixed, or people like me have moved on and decided it isn't important anymore. The other thing you can do is if you see the signs, and you recognize them, page, and keep paging every single time you see the signs.

 

[RavenWinterHawk]

Are you kidding me?
You go for it bud. Play the game looking out for those scripters. Blame, raise the torches... burn all players you think are scripting, even the innocent.

Ahh.... you do know people script and you can't do a thing about it. Right?


Why waste your time?

It has already been confirmed. This thread should be locked.

 

[Eyes of Origin]

Are you kidding me?
You go for it bud. Play the game looking out for those scripters. Blame, raise the torches... burn all players you think are scripting, even the innocent.

Ahh.... you do know people script and you can't do a thing about it. Right?

Why waste your time?

It has already been confirmed. This thread should be locked.

We should have a say and we should be able to do something about it. We pay the same fees as everyone else and have to play with those who use scripts, but we shouldnt have to.
I'm not saying we should be able to blame just anyone and they get banned, but someone should be doing something to look into it and go from there.

 

[Trebr Drab]

And PvPers wonder why games don't make good PvP.

I used to love it, was in a guild that warred other guilds and fought PKers all the time. Some great times. But between the cheats and the flat out jerks it attracted I just don't have any desire to get too involved anymore.

On a related sidetrack, thank you Urks, Siege players, and a few others who were always the cream of the "evul" you could count on to just play for fun.

 

[RavenWinterHawk]

We should have a say and we should be able to do something about it. We pay the same fees as everyone else and have to play with those who use scripts, but we shouldnt have to.
I'm not saying we should be able to blame just anyone and they get banned, but someone should be doing something to look into it and go from there.

My post was more too... WE KNOW.

Should and shouldn't are beyond our control. I agree through.

If you ask me, UO should allow us to sell items, and write scripts. They should sell scripts too. Just figure out how to prevent unintended marcroing... but if you cant beat them, lets join them.

I dont PvP anymore, mostly cause there is no point. No loot. No death. No consequence. It is really boring.

 

[Llewen]

Are you kidding me?
You go for it bud. Play the game looking out for those scripters. Blame, raise the torches... burn all players you think are scripting, even the innocent.

Ahh.... you do know people script and you can't do a thing about it. Right?


Why waste your time?

It has already been confirmed. This thread should be locked.

My post was more too... WE KNOW.

Should and shouldn't are beyond our control. I agree through.

If you ask me, UO should allow us to sell items, and write scripts. They should sell scripts too. Just figure out how to prevent unintended marcroing... but if you cant beat them, lets join them.

I dont PvP anymore, mostly cause there is no point. No loot. No death. No consequence. It is really boring.

This is just so typical:

- Everyone cheats.
- There's nothing that can be done about it.
- No one cheats, you just suck.
- If you can't beat them, join them.
- Cheats don't make any difference anyway.

The same contradictions, the same lies, over and over again. Now for the truth.

- No everyone doesn't cheat, a lot do, but there are still plenty that don't.
- Yes you can do something about it, keep posting about it, keep emailing EA, keep on reporting bugs and exploits, keep on paging on cheaters when you recognize them. If the honest players do this, the game will change for the better.
- Whether I suck or not is unimportant and not the question, the truth is a lot of people are cheating, and that includes probably the majority of regular pvp'rs.
- No, I am not going to "join them". I want to see the game cleaned up. I think that cheating has done a great deal of harm to the game, on a number of different levels, and I want to see meaningful, permanent change with regard to this issue. I think we've already seen some changes, we need to see more.
- Yes they do make a difference and provide those who use them with a distinct, unfair advantage. If they didn't, no one would use them.

What also interests me is the link between cheating and "cyber bullying", because I can tell you from experience that many of the worst cheaters are also the most abusive, and those who are inclined to engage in truly hurtful, personal attacks. The issues here are real, and they are larger than the sum of their parts, and no, I am not going to go away unless I am forcibly removed.

 

[popps]

Great thanks for telling us.

What now?

What now ??

How about perhaps FINALLY have something DONE to stop it ?

And I mean ALL of the scripting, not just healing scripts used in PvP...........

It is beyond my understanding how on earth in this game it is still possible to cheat without much consequences.

I have seen fellow players leaving UO fed up because they had ENOUGH of playing and fighting against other players using cheats to win, subscriptions have been lost and yet, we are still here talking about stopping cheating in Ultima Online.

Wouldn't it be MUCH simpler, faster AND BETTER if the Developers just terminated for good the possibility for players to use cheating in Ultima Online ??????

 

[Woodsman]

If you ask me, UO should allow us to sell items, and write scripts. They should sell scripts too. Just figure out how to prevent unintended marcroing... but if you cant beat them, lets join them.

Let's just go ahead and make the production shards have the test center commands, just let people set their skills and stats when they log in and let them change them on a whim. The only difference between allowing people to automatically script their skills up while they are watching a movie or browsing the web and using the test center commands is time.

I see the scripters walking around Luna and Zento, and I've been told they are now making the rounds of New Magincia. I would love to visit Stratics or UOHerald and see an announcement about dozens or hundreds of scripters being banned and trillions being deleted, but I don't think that's going to happen anymore. These people and these websites are doing it in the open. They obviously know something, something that leads them to believe they don't need to worry about getting banned. There are threads here that are well over a month old talking about the most blatant of the scripters and they are still doing their thing.

I dont PvP anymore, mostly cause there is no point. No loot. No death. No consequence. It is really boring.

That's a problem with UO and not with scripting.

Of course you could try Siege where there is no item insurance and easily obtained blessed items.

I admit that I'm not that interested in PvP anymore either - I spent too many years in EVE Online for PvP in other games to really hold my interest. They are in a tough spot, since there aren't that many people left and any major changes run the risk of alienating customers, but there comes a point at which they have to do something while there are still people around.

 

[RavenWinterHawk]

Thats the problem scripting has no consequence.

But if you create a game that is better... we will worry less about scripters and PvP and play the game.

The answer is improving the game.

 

[Gorbs]

First, I apologize for being pulled in by an obvious troll.

However, if you really believe scripting is such an issue it would seem logical to me that you would campaign and support any EA sponsored pvp events or tournaments. This would be an opportunity for the alleged cheating to be observed by representatives of the game maker who may carry some authority. On the boards, if you don't have a screen shot it didn't happen. In the game, if no one with authority witnesses the act, it didn't happen.

 

[Eyes of Origin]

I've tried to get ppl banned that I know for sure were scripting, but even after taking a break for more than a year, they're still here and they're still running the same pvp scripts they were before.
I've gone to the extent of somewhat befriending them, getting them to icq me the script and screenshots of them using it and sending it to Mesanna so they could see what is going on and still nothing.

I wont join them in using scripts to pvp, but it is annoying.

 

[Elric_Soban]

Well, all we can do is keep posting as I have to make sure that the devs don't think this issue is fixed, or people like me have moved on and decided it isn't important anymore. The other thing you can do is if you see the signs, and you recognize them, page, and keep paging every single time you see the signs.

why do you think alot of people are fighting so desperately to keep the old client alive? it's a cheater's dream.

 

[SixUnder]

its very simple people.

if you ban all the accounts using one thing or another you loose half of your profit or business right there. period.

if EA were to stop people doing these things no more UO.

plus of all the the things people cheat with healing is a joke who cares about that. only one that ever bothers me is speed.....when you cant catch em..

as far as CC, i been playing in 2d for 13 years no every if ands and buts about movements, where you can tele where you cant , same with fields, targets tiles you name it. after 13 years do i really want to have to re learn how to play in 3d?

 

[Woodsman]

First, I apologize for being pulled in by an obvious troll.

However, if you really believe scripting is such an issue it would seem logical to me that you would campaign and support any EA sponsored pvp events or tournaments. This would be an opportunity for the alleged cheating to be observed by representatives of the game maker who may carry some authority. On the boards, if you don't have a screen shot it didn't happen. In the game, if no one with authority witnesses the act, it didn't happen.

There is nothing stopping anybody with authority from logging into the game on a popular shard and spending a little bit of time in Luna.

If they don't deal with the most obvious of scripters in Luna, it's hard to expect them to do it elsewhere in the game.

 

[Llewen]

Thats the problem scripting has no consequence.

But if you create a game that is better... we will worry less about scripters and PvP and play the game.

The answer is improving the game.

why do you think alot of people are fighting so desperately to keep the old client alive? it's a cheater's dream.

Elric has hit the nail on the head. The problem isn't that the game needs improving. UO is still the best MMO I have ever played. It has the most depth, it appeals to widest variety of playstyles and has the most "stuff" to do in game of any MMO I have ever seen. The problem is an outdated client that is laughably easy to hack, with a wide variety of ready made cheats and hacks that are easy to find, download, and use.

The devs need pretty up the enhanced client, fix the remaining serious bugs, and shut down the "classic" client. There is simply no way to end cheating in that client, or even make much of a dent in it. The only way the enhanced client will gain wide acceptance is if you can no longer cheat in the classic client, and the only way you won't be able to cheat in the classic client is if you can no longer use it.

 

[TheMac]

.... That is all.

 

[Vyal]

first anyone who is any good at pvp will tell you that for one pot chugging scripts will screw up and get you killed 90% of the time. Second most good players can hit a macro faster then a script can. Third and this is the easiest way to tell if a person is using a script just cast poison on them over and over again.

Like I said a good player can out chug a script so why cry about someone using the script anyhow? If ya cant beat them you surely cant beat someone who can do it without a script.

Lastly! Scripting is not a big deal, who cares if someone wants to use the script to save them from endless clicking and wrist pain over a game as long as they are at the pc and not doing it afk get the hell over it.

The greatest problem cheating wise is speeders. They cause some peoples clients to crash, lock up or lag. Not to mention they skip all over the screen. I have played on many shards and I have to say Atlantic is an absolute cheaters heaven, I want to say somewhere around half the players I have ever encountered in fel there use speeder and its so easy to tell when someone is. It really does take all the fun out of pvp when someone is using a speeder around me because it just turns into me having fun attacking someone getting them on the ropes then locking up second after second while the other person skips all over the screen...

 

[RavenWinterHawk]

why do you think alot of people are fighting so desperately to keep the old client alive? it's a cheater's dream.

Actually, that is a good point.

 

[Llewen]

first anyone who is any good at pvp will tell you that for one pot chugging scripts will screw up and get you killed 90% of the time. Second most good players can hit a macro faster then a script can. Third and this is the easiest way to tell if a person is using a script just cast poison on them over and over again.

Like I said a good player can out chug a script so why cry about someone using the script anyhow? If ya cant beat them you surely cant beat someone who can do it without a script.

This is the same nonsense I've been told over and over again, and it's no more true now than it was the first time I read it. In case I wasn't clear enough, that pvp'r I was talking about in the op was very "skilled", and extremely hard to kill, and I knew he was using scripts, even though all kinds of "leet pvp'rs" such as yourself were regurgitating what you've just posted over and over again.

Let me tell you how this typically goes when you talk to a cheater in a context where he doesn't feel threatened. It goes something like this, "I don't use scripts, other than a bandage script, but that's no big deal." Well let me assure you, it is a big deal. It's one less thing for the player to think about, it's something that kicks in automatically whenever the conditions of the script are met and as I've said many times before, scripts don't get distracted, and scripts don't have problems with target fixation, they do their work no matter what is going on around them.

Yes, certain poorly written, and foolishly utilized scripts can be "fooled" or "broken down" if you know what you are doing, but the majority of the time they work flawlessly, and they certainly work as intended a greater percentage of the time than the typical human player does.

And they don't have to be incredibly complex scripts to have a huge impact. I would hazard a guess that most pvp'rs that are using health scripts aren't using mega scripts that handle all their healing for them, they are using small, fairly simple scripts that handle one or two simple things, such as bandaging. Those kinds of scripts are far more likely to work as intended, and are much harder to break down, but they still offer significant, and often decisive, benefits.

As for "speed hacks", they are fairly easy to spot, and I would agree with you that the vast majority of the regular pvp'rs on Atlantic and other shards are using them. However, I can still either keep pace with, or outrun, all of them, and I don't use any cheats, and they never cause me any lag. The primary reason for that is that I use the enhanced client. So if you really think that the biggest problem in pvp is speed hacking, all you need to do to completely neutralize their use against you is to use the enhanced client, but of course, most will never do that, because they can't use their favourite scripts with the enhanced client.

The classic client simply needs to be shut down. There is no other action that is going to break the back of the cheating problem in all facets of UO, from resource gathering, to pvp. And the problem with the cheats that are used outside of the context of pvp is that they are often supporting those who pvp, so even if many pvp'rs aren't directly using cheats in pvp, many of those are gaining logistical support that is based on the use of cheats.

 

[Llewen]

I frequently hear of people being discouraged in PVP (especially fighting in fel yew) because of not being able to get away from a blatently obviously speeding deathstrike dexxer. Also, I highly doubt there is any sort of cap on movement speed... that is obtainable by a legit player at least.

You are wrong. There is a cap on movement speed in game, both for mounted and dismounted movement, and in over a year of pretty intense pvp'ing on Catskills, and now on Atlantic, I have never, not even once, seen anyone break that movement cap. Yes a lot of players "speed hack" but all that speed hacking does is provide some compensation for the obsolete network and movement code included with the classic client.

The reason I don't think it is a big deal is because it is incredibly easy to deal with, for anyone. All you need to do is use the enhanced client. But why won't people switch en masse to the enhanced client? I can tell you why. There are two basic reasons. The first is just the general human tendency to dislike any change, even if it is a change for the better, but the second reason is by far the most common reason among pvp'rs, and that is that their cheats won't work with the enhanced client.

There are all kinds of cheats that are being used with the classic client, and most of the high end pvp'rs are using them. They include art hacks, and scripts. However there is a program which is the most popular third party cheat being used in pvp right now, and it is not "the-program-which-shall-not-be-named". What it allows you to do is create complex "macros", and that is what pvp'rs call them. "I don't run 'scripts', I run 'macros'."

The problem is that the "macro" functionality included with this program allows for complex scripting logic, and includes very powerful, complex functions. Those "macros" really aren't macros, they are scripts, and they are even composed like scripts. I can tell you without a shadow of a doubt that scripting, including the macro functionality that is a part of this program, is the single biggest issue in pvp right now, not speed hacking.

 

[RavenWinterHawk]

No the single biggest problem with PvP is there is NO POINT TO it.

Your crying foul to scripting.
Others are crying foul to speed hacking.


I am crying foul that it is stupid. No one dies, no one loses stuff, there is no reward or loot.

Why do you PvP? Bragging rights?

Everyone dies in PvP. If everyone dies, rezz's and fights... then no one dies.

I don't get it.
Help me out.

 

[Roland']

Double Click (0x44B496F6)
Pause 1.00sec
Double Click (clean bandage%s%0E21))
Wait for Target
Exec: Target Self
Pause 5.00sec


Good thread *thinks to self "this might kill a few moments till scrubs is on"*

Edit: For the record at all teh fingure pointers this is a joke. Ive used EC client for over a year and havnt had to train any skill but throwing and inscription in very very long time. Both of which i used EC client for.

 

[Picus of Napa]

I've been waging a war against the use of scripts in pvp for a long time. I've asserted that I could tell when players were using them, and I've asserted at times that I thought it was one of the most serious cheating issues in the game - I would say duping and scripted resource gathering and quests are probably the most serious, but in pvp the use of all kinds of scripts is the most serious issue.

While I've been waging this little war I've been told numerous times that I don't know what I'm talking about, and that no one who is any good uses scripts in pvp, so much so that I had begun to doubt myself and wonder if maybe I was wrong. Well, I just had my suspicions confirmed quite emphatically - someone who I was certain was using health scripts, someone who was extremely "skilled" and extremely hard to kill, has openly admitted to me in a context that removes all doubt, that he used them, just exactly as I thought he did.

I'm not sure that health scripts specifically are being used as much as they were three or four years ago, but I am once again going to be sharply on the lookout for the evidence that they are being used. The most common cheat used in pvp is probably the infamous "speed hack" but they still don't allow anyone to break the capped movement rates which are set server side. If you use the enhanced client as I do, this is pretty obvious. In my opinion the use of scripts in pvp is still the issue of competitive fairness that has the most impact.

Not to throw more grease on your moronic fire, but the great program is currently down. Hard to believe that every "leet" player you die to is running what is currently broken....Me thinks your pets just aren't keeping you alive, time to learn how to PvP without a crutch.

 

[Vyal]

Llewen, do you use UOA or the other program that is identical to UOA but I won't name it?

 

[Vexxed]

@ Llewen....

#1.... Your ignorant.

#2.... It's my understanding that sure.. there is indeed a 'speed-cap' of sorts in UO, but the way it's applied makes it possible to EFFECTIVELY be broken. When I began to wonder about the subject YEARS & YEARS ago.... What I found out / was told was that any STRAIGHT LINE DISTANCE does indeed have a server-side speed cap applied to it, but that same cap IS NOT applied if you change directions. So what happens is that when you actually start moving around in non-straight line paths someone who is speed-hacking will appear to blink when they 'corner'. That's one of the easier ways to tell how hard someone is speedering etc... If they are blinking when they change direction & juming 3+ tiles etc when they do well....... If it walks like a duck & quacks like a duck... Anyway.... my only question is how can you possible have played this game for so long & not understand the basics...

 

[Llewen]

Not to throw more grease on your moronic fire, but the great program is currently down. Hard to believe that every "leet" player you die to is running what is currently broken....Me thinks your pets just aren't keeping you alive, time to learn how to PvP without a crutch.

As far as I know the program I am talking about isn't down. And this really doesn't have much to do with whether I have died or not. I die all the time, like most of us do, although perhaps more often than most, in part because I run less than most, but that really is completely irrelevant to this discussion.

The only thing that is relevant to this discussion is that I know there is a server side speed cap because I see it in action all the time, and it doesn't matter whether the person I am chasing or running from is running in a straight line, or pulling figure 8's, the cap remains the same and I have never, in the past year+ since I returned to UO, seen anyone break the movement cap, mounted or dismounted.

 

[Llewen]

Llewen, do you use UOA or the other program that is identical to UOA but I won't name it?

I don't use either. I run the enhanced client exclusively now.

Or just one simple reason: it's a hideous monster. With how much you post (troll) on Uhall im suprised you haven't seen the real reasons why people don't like the EC. There are several posts about it all you have to do is look.

Bollocks. Anyone who has used the enhanced client for any amount of time will tell you that the classic client looks pretty primitive in comparison, especially when you get into some of the nice, and perfectly legal mods available for it.

 

[Widow Maker]

Oh ye of little knowledge....

If you mistakenly think for one single second that scripting only exists because of the CC...you need a Roto Rooter of the brain.

Think of it like inventing viruses. Everyone does it for Windows because it has the market share. There are virus' for MAC's and all other OS's but not a lot. Folks hit what is used the most, for obvious reasons (at least it is obvious for those with more than 2 active brain cells)

If it EVER comes about that the CC is not the most used, you can bet your bottom dollar that whatever is the most used client will have a little something made just for it.

Give up the CC bashing, because it just proves the old addage that some may just think others are stupid..until those people open their mouths and prove it.

There are very easy ways to halt scripting but it will never be done because it attacks what is left of the financial backside. The Devs have absolutely no questions or qualms about that fact.

 

[Llewen]

If you mistakenly think for one single second that scripting only exists because of the CC...you need a Roto Rooter of the brain.

Think of it like inventing viruses. Everyone does it for Windows because it has the market share. There are virus' for MAC's and all other OS's but not a lot. Folks hit what is used the most, for obvious reasons (at least it is obvious for those with more than 2 active brain cells)

If it EVER comes about that the CC is not the most used, you can bet your bottom dollar that whatever is the most used client will have a little something made just for it.

You are correct to a certain degree, if the enhanced client becomes the only client, there will be cheats made for it, but you are also very much out to lunch. The architecture of the classic client makes it completely indefensible. You either have forgotten, or never understood the significance of the fact that the classic client was originally written to run on Windows 3.1. It is far easier to build security features into the enhanced client and deal with issues such as illegal art mods, and the same is true for just about any type of cheat you can think of.

And when I say "far easier" what I am actually saying is that it is almost impossible to build the kinds of features that would constitute a component of an effective anti-cheat strategy into the classic client.

 

[Widow Maker]

You are correct to a certain degree, if the enhanced client becomes the only client, there will be cheats made for it, but you are also very much out to lunch. The architecture of the classic client makes it completely indefensible. You either have forgotten, or never understood the significance of the fact that the classic client was originally written to run on Windows 3.1. It is far easier to build security features into the enhanced client and deal with issues such as illegal art mods, and the same is true for just about any type of cheat you can think of.

And when I say "far easier" what I am actually saying is that it is almost impossible to build the kinds of features that would constitute a component of an effective anti-cheat strategy into the classic client.

Thank you Mr. Obvious but I certainly do not need a lesson from you about this client or the EC or what it was/is designed for/through/about.

Bottom line here, son, is that you are absolutely beating a dead horse. One would think your arm was tired from before.

Do yourself and your blood pressure a favor...let it go. When and if the Devs ever want to do something (if ever on a 14 year old game that people are willing to pay for even with all it's failings)..they will. Until then...

Let it go...

 

[Llewen]

Thank you Mr. Obvious but I certainly do not need a lesson from you about this client or the EC or what it was/is designed for/through/about.

Well at least you gave me a good chuckle, and you are absolutely typical of all the contradictions that come out of the anti-anti-cheat camp. First I don't know what I'm talking about, and then I'm Mr. Obvious for stating what you are saying is obviously true. So which is it? Is it that I don't know what I'm talking about about, or is it that what I am saying is so obviously true that I should just shut up? Which is it? It can't be both.

My guess is you just want me to shut up and you'll say just about anything to make that happen. Why is that? Is there some personal reason? Is there some reason why you are so dead against anti-cheat discussions? Why would you be against something that is so obviously "motherhood and apple pie"? Doesn't every honest player want an end to all the cheating?

 

[Warpig Inc]

What now is the same in the past years. Bend over. grab your ankles and pucker up for long smooch fest. Soon as the hairs are wore off your backside something maybe done.

They looked away when it started. And when they looked back so many had joined the darkside the greedy overlords would not allow anything to be done.Now all thats left is tyrants and sheep, and greed still rules the day.

 

[Zyon Rockler]

I thought UO Assist, when I used it years ago, was one big hack system. I believe it even read that those using it had better casting time because it went directly to the server. If I remember correctly you could set for a certain amount of damage to be done and then automatically it would begin to heal. Like, you could say, 50% of life or you could say, 75% of life and then the macro would automatically begin.

People would make all kinds of macros that would chain different spells together and UO Assist became a speed hack because sometimes the signal sent to the server would be ignored and somehow the timers would be bi-passed allowing you to cast faster or perform an action that would not normally be allowed, like throwing 1,000 potions at one time. It's almost like it's a whole 'nother realm, a hidden dimension.

I think the game should allow for these types of things. For example: In the enhanced client, you can't party other people's pets but a scripter could easily write some type of code that would allow him to automatically heal someone elses' pet. So, by taking the client itself, and using the scripter and what he's created and incorporating that, then it becomes player choice, rather than, the computer deciding on what to do.

Another example: Would be, creating an unfair advantage where I can hit you 4 times with my sword in a row and then placing that into the system itself. So, now you have a choice, to do that or not to do that.

Another thing you could do is, create guilds or get with groups of people who don't want cheating. The only reason cheating is winning is because it has an advantage.

Our guild went out hunting the other day. We were using sampires to kill the scorpion, because there is 4 of us + we kill the scorpion in one second. So, my solution to cheating is, power. It doesn't matter what kind of healing hack you use if you have 4 or more axes cutting at you at the exact same time.

But, threads like these cause problems. Everyone in the game is turning into a security guard. As we're hunting people will come up, take a look at us, then run over and grab Rend and 4 Reptiles and run them to where we are. Almost 9 out of 10 people that see us, have done this so far.

The one guy came in and he says to us, "That he's paging a GM because I am cheating and using some type of script to control all of the characters," and then after he is told, we are not cheating, he leads Rend and the Reptiles in, thanks to threads like this, encouraging this behavior.

So, we set out to have a good time and instead we have to deal with people, constantly who are ill mannered and complete problematic, intrusions because our power reflects cheating because they fear our ability. Just as when you're in a situation and your opponent seems unbeatable because of their scripting abilities.

Oh, and one more note, I don't understand how somebody could control more than one character. I have enough problems keeping my own character alive, let alone controlling 6 or 7 other characters. I think you guys need to take a break or just start figuring out other ways to overpower the script.

 

[Woodsman]

Lastly! Scripting is not a big deal, who cares if someone wants to use the script to save them from endless clicking and wrist pain over a game as long as they are at the pc and not doing it afk get the hell over it.

A lot of the scripters aren't doing it because they find building skills or stats boring. They are doing it because they are making money from it, and they are hurting legitimate players, or they are using it to for personal gains in-game to help themselves to get ahead of legitimate players.

It's cheating and it's lazy.

Like a friend told me, if you reach the point where you start scripting a lot, you probably should just quit UO, because you're no longer really playing the game anyways. It doesn't matter whether you're doing it because you find it boring or because you're trying to beat out somebody else for something or are using it to help sell gold or goods for money.

What's crazy is how many people claim that everybody does it. Maybe they do it, maybe their friends do it, but if that's the case, they should find new friends who have some integrity, rather than trying to drag everybody else into the gutter with them and somehow pretend that it's normal and okay.

 

[Viper09]

Isn't there a thread or 2 exactly like this one a while back created by the same OP?

http://vboards.stratics.com/uhall/181387-real-problem-cheating-pvp.html
http://vboards.stratics.com/uhall/226778-war-cheating-whats-next-step.html

 

[Llewen]

Isn't there a thread or 2 exactly like this one a while back created by the same OP?

http://vboards.stratics.com/uhall/181387-real-problem-cheating-pvp.html
http://vboards.stratics.com/uhall/226778-war-cheating-whats-next-step.html

Yes there are other threads where many of the same things have been said, but this particular thread was in response to some things that have been said in those threads, and in other discussions I have had, not on these boards. Specifically what I was responding to was the statement that I've read a number of times that no one who is any good uses scripts in pvp. Well, to be blunt, that's bollocks, and I recently had some solid confirmation of what I've been saying all along.

I have heard straight from one of those people that I "knew" was using health scripts, just as I always have suspected and stated, that he indeed was using them. And just as I have said numerous times, this was no pvp newbie. This is a veteran that ranks in the upper echelon of those I have fought against over the years, and part of the reason he was in the upper echelon was that he was using health scripts - exactly as I have said all along.

And I can guarantee you that he isn't the only one I've been right about over the years. I could provide a list to you of people I suspected were using some form of health scripts and I highly suspect I would right at least 9 times out of 10.

 

[N49ATV]

Scripting will never be stopped, because it cant be stopped.

The main script tool interacts with the client in the same maner a player would. So how can they stop it? They cant.

Even if they went as far as to scan processes while the game is running to see if certain programs are in use, they would just be renamed, and show different in taskbar, task manager, and process list. And its on again.

So accept that they are there, and that they will be used, and just feel good when you kill a scripter.

 

[RawHeadRex]

Scripting will never be stopped, because it cant be stopped.

The main script tool interacts with the client in the same maner a player would. So how can they stop it? They cant.

Even if they went as far as to scan processes while the game is running to see if certain programs are in use, they would just be renamed, and show different in taskbar, task manager, and process list. And its on again.

So accept that they are there, and that they will be used, and just feel good when you kill a scripter.

i couldn't agree more.

this is the type of thinking that makes people consider turning.

 

[Korik Bloodguard]

Disclosure: I feel scripting for skill gain is awesome.

With that said, I encourage Llewelelelan to continue posting about the continued use of various ways of gaining an advantage over another player who does not resort to the same methods.

Maybe some day something will actually be done about cheating, and at that point Lleweleeawwhale.... he... will get to bask in the glorious feeling that is vindication.

Edit: To the people claiming it can't be stopped, of course it can be stopped. There are many methods EA could employ which would stop scripting such as changing the nature of the data stream, stream authentication, adaptive process detection, mandatory EC usage...

What is important to recognize is that EA knows there are methods to prevent scripting - they aren't dumb, but there is certainly something holding them back.

 

[Vlaude]

Oh Llewen died, someone MUST be cheating!

On a serious note: this game has a very Diablo feel to it these days, in other words it's dominated by cheaters. So why are we still paying a monthly fee?

 

[N49ATV]

So why are we still paying a monthly fee?

Im not anymore, but I didnt leave due to cheating. Just my time

 

[Goldberg-Chessy]

Are you kidding me?
You go for it bud. Play the game looking out for those scripters. Blame, raise the torches... burn all players you think are scripting, even the innocent.

Ahh.... you do know people script and you can't do a thing about it. Right?


Why waste your time?

It has already been confirmed. This thread should be locked.

My post was more too... WE KNOW.

Should and shouldn't are beyond our control. I agree through.

If you ask me, UO should allow us to sell items, and write scripts. They should sell scripts too. Just figure out how to prevent unintended marcroing... but if you cant beat them, lets join them.

I dont PvP anymore, mostly cause there is no point. No loot. No death. No consequence. It is really boring.

This is just so typical:

- Everyone cheats.
- There's nothing that can be done about it.
- No one cheats, you just suck.
- If you can't beat them, join them.
- Cheats don't make any difference anyway.

The same contradictions, the same lies, over and over again. Now for the truth.

- No everyone doesn't cheat, a lot do, but there are still plenty that don't.
- Yes you can do something about it, keep posting about it, keep emailing EA, keep on reporting bugs and exploits, keep on paging on cheaters when you recognize them. If the honest players do this, the game will change for the better.
- Whether I suck or not is unimportant and not the question, the truth is a lot of people are cheating, and that includes probably the majority of regular pvp'rs.
- No, I am not going to "join them". I want to see the game cleaned up. I think that cheating has done a great deal of harm to the game, on a number of different levels, and I want to see meaningful, permanent change with regard to this issue. I think we've already seen some changes, we need to see more.
- Yes they do make a difference and provide those who use them with a distinct, unfair advantage. If they didn't, no one would use them.

What also interests me is the link between cheating and "cyber bullying", because I can tell you from experience that many of the worst cheaters are also the most abusive, and those who are inclined to engage in truly hurtful, personal attacks. The issues here are real, and they are larger than the sum of their parts, and no, I am not going to go away unless I am forcibly removed.

Some players cheat. It sux but it is reality. Cheating is a reality ingame & a reality in rl.
No offense but cheating ingame should sadly be no surprise to anyone. If when you first purchased the game you read the TOS you would have been informed of all kinds of rules against cheating. This should have been your first clue that cheating was an issue and a reality

What is the real issue here though?

Is the issue the possibility that some people think that since they are playing a game the world can/should be perfect? Thats just plain silly.

The OP keeps referring to the fact that he has issues with other people cheating and gaining an unfair advantage? Probably some truth there. It sux but cheating can never be completely stopped. Hopefully it will always be policed though. Thats it. Realize this and go have fun playing the game. You are paying cash to play. Not to worry about what you(or anyone else)cannot completely control right?

You talk of cheating in pvp?
IMO thats the easiest form of cheating to deal with. If you know your opponent is cheating then you have already won the battle. If someone has to cheat to compete with you then you are of course the better player. Its really that simple. Does not make a difference who lived or died.

Can ofc be frustrating sometimes in the heat of battle but to cool off and then come to the boards to talk about it? IMO thats overdoing it.

Peace

 

[UOKaiser]

I've been waging a war against the use of scripts in pvp for a long time. I've asserted that I could tell when players were using them, and I've asserted at times that I thought it was one of the most serious cheating issues in the game - I would say duping and scripted resource gathering and quests are probably the most serious, but in pvp the use of all kinds of scripts is the most serious issue.

While I've been waging this little war I've been told numerous times that I don't know what I'm talking about, and that no one who is any good uses scripts in pvp, so much so that I had begun to doubt myself and wonder if maybe I was wrong. Well, I just had my suspicions confirmed quite emphatically - someone who I was certain was using health scripts, someone who was extremely "skilled" and extremely hard to kill, has openly admitted to me in a context that removes all doubt, that he used them, just exactly as I thought he did.

I'm not sure that health scripts specifically are being used as much as they were three or four years ago, but I am once again going to be sharply on the lookout for the evidence that they are being used. The most common cheat used in pvp is probably the infamous "speed hack" but they still don't allow anyone to break the capped movement rates which are set server side. If you use the enhanced client as I do, this is pretty obvious. In my opinion the use of scripts in pvp is still the issue of competitive fairness that has the most impact.

I doubt its health script, test it out by confusing the script very easy to do. Once someone thinks a person is using a health script and if that person is idotic enough to use it means defeat for him.
Might want to ask him what specifacaly he is using. Macro script on gaming mouse and keyboards are superior to any computer pre program response in the heat of battle. You need to be in control every moment of the opponents actions to effectly defeat them without having a computer programed script interupt your counter moves and waste precious time in momentary decisions. Using your experience to counter atttack a player by knowing what hes going to do before he does it and your gaming macro scripts programed to macro buttons to account for each situation and pattern of attack is superior in every way to a looping preprogram script that has to rely waiting on the actions of the opponent before it does anything without able to divert from that action once initiated.

 

[Vyal]

Llewen, do you use UOA or the other program that is identical to UOA but I won't name it?

I don't use either. I run the enhanced client exclusively now.

Or just one simple reason: it's a hideous monster. With how much you post (troll) on Uhall im suprised you haven't seen the real reasons why people don't like the EC. There are several posts about it all you have to do is look.

Bollocks. Anyone who has used the enhanced client for any amount of time will tell you that the classic client looks pretty primitive in comparison, especially when you get into some of the nice, and perfectly legal mods available for it.

So you know nothing about UOA and how the macro system works.. woah thats a shocker!

I suggest you try UOA or the other and figure out what your missing here before you start any more threads like this.

 

[popps]

its very simple people.

if you ban all the accounts using one thing or another you loose half of your profit or business right there. period.

if EA were to stop people doing these things no more UO.

Fine, it can be a business decision I can understand that.

BUT, if the case is what you describe, then, to my opinion, the one rightfull thing to do would be to CHANGE POLICY ABOUT CHEATING IN ULTIMA ONLINE.

How is it called when a prohibition policy is publicly stated but it is then hardly enforced ??

I am not questioning the Developers' rightfull choice to either fight or not cheating. They are in charge of running the game so this is their call. I may not like playing a game where cheating is so rampant, I can close my subscription and leave the game as many others have done, but I cannot criticize the rightfull decision of those who own and run the game to either fight or not fight cheating in this game.

But I think that I CAN criticize the current situation of having a Policy which declares activities in the game as forbidden but then hardly anything is done to stop them.

And yes, I believe that hardly anything is done about them because everyone who plays the game can see about Luna, Zento and now it seems Magincia, going on EVERY DAY.

THIS, is what I find not acceptable.

I am only saying either put the actions where the words are (cheating being forbidden and a bannable activity = ENFORCE THIS PROHIBITION !!!) or simply if there is not the desire to fight cheating in UO, whatever the reasons, CHANGE THE OFFICIAL POLICY AND REMOVE CHEATING FROM BEING A PROHIBITED AND BANNABLE ACTIVITY IN UO.

I cannot accept something being officially prohibited but then this prohibition being hardly enforced. To me this is not tolerable.

CHANGE THE DAMN POLICY IF CHEATING IS WANTED TO STAY IN ULTIMA ONLINE !!!!

 

[Llewen]

What is the real issue here though?

You talk of cheating in pvp?
IMO thats the easiest form of cheating to deal with. If you know your opponent is cheating then you have already won the battle. If someone has to cheat to compete with you then you are of course the better player. Its really that simple. Does not make a difference who lived or died.

"What's the real issue here though?" That's actually a very good question. The question I can answer is, "What is the real issue here for me?" At it's heart there's an issue of justice here, I simply don't like to see people who break the rules "winning", even in something as meaningless as a game.

However, there's a bigger issue here as well, in game terms, and that is that I love pvp, and cheating drives people away from pvp. It doesn't drive me away because I enjoy a template and playstyle that gives me a chance even against the worst cheaters. But no one likes to lose and have no chance of winning, and that is what has caused many people to give up, and the less people there are pvp'ing, the less fun there is to be had from my perspective.

I doubt its health script, test it out by confusing the script very easy to do. Once someone thinks a person is using a health script and if that person is idotic enough to use it means defeat for him.

This makes me wonder if you actually read anything I posted. I knew this person was using health scripts. He was very successful, and very hard to kill. He admitted to me in a non-threatening context that he used them. He actually volunteered that information without me directly asking him any questions about it.

There is a health script that was commonly used in the past that is probably pretty easy to fool. As far as I know it hasn't been updated for years, and yes, you'd probably be stupid to use it. But the cheat program that is most popular with pvp'rs right now actually has similar functionality included with it, and my guess is that it is widely used, and probably works very well.

Your statement that these scripts and programs don't work well, and aren't used by "skilled" players, simply isn't true. That's one of the main points of this thread.

So you know nothing about UOA and how the macro system works.. woah thats a shocker!

I suggest you try UOA or the other and figure out what your missing here before you start any more threads like this.

I played the classic client for at least six years, and a good part of that with UO Assist, before I switched to the EC. Yes, I know quite a lot about UOA and how it works, and what you can do with it...