BOTS

[Guest]

<blockquote><hr>

What I'm not sure of (and I'm not very economically literate), is how would, say, I, becoming a sim millionaire effect other's game play?

[/ QUOTE ]It depends on how you go about doing it. Most normal sims don't become sim-millionaires overnight, and generally do not do it from the privacy of their own homes behind locked doors. This means that most sims, in the legitimate pursuit of riches, interacts with other sims, visit other sims' houses, and generally help stimulate the economy by providing their visitor hours, tips, and what-not to other sims around them; and they help spread the sense of community.

Botters, on the other hand, have the effect of dumping LARGE quantities of simoleans into the economy in very short order; this has the effect of severe inflation as the cost of user-priced non-catalog items (such as rare and crafted objects) climbs up through the stratosphere - well out of the reach of honest, legitimate players.

Botters have also been the primary providers of simoleans to fund so-called visitor payouts (the old "do 10 jams and we'll give you 50k" schemes). The payout culture this created has had the single most devastating impact on the game as a whole, as a house's popularity was no longer determined by its quality of service, but was determined by how many simoleans it could throw at everybody, and in-house conversations devolved to little more than counting, interrupted by the occasional "cashing out plz" or "leaving now gimme my money". During its peak, the "payout wars" drove away large numbers of honest, legitimate players who simply could not compete against those who "bought" their visitors with simoleans bought from botters.

Unfortunately, the botters also gave rise to yet another culture - those who made it their life goal to locate and report alleged botters, and a whole new level of in-game harrassment was born. What sims the botters didn't drive out of the game due to the unlevel playing field botting created, the botter witch-hunts that botting gave rise to drove many, many more sims out of the game.

 

[Guest]

<blockquote><hr>

<blockquote><hr>

What I'm not sure of (and I'm not very economically literate), is how would, say, I, becoming a sim millionaire effect other's game play?

[/ QUOTE ]It depends on how you go about doing it. Most normal sims don't become sim-millionaires overnight, and generally do not do it from the privacy of their own homes behind locked doors. This means that most sims, in the legitimate pursuit of riches, interacts with other sims, visit other sims' houses, and generally help stimulate the economy by providing their visitor hours, tips, and what-not to other sims around them; and they help spread the sense of community.

Botters, on the other hand, have the effect of dumping LARGE quantities of simoleans into the economy in very short order; this has the effect of severe inflation as the cost of user-priced non-catalog items (such as rare and crafted objects) climbs up through the stratosphere - well out of the reach of honest, legitimate players.

Botters have also been the primary providers of simoleans to fund so-called visitor payouts (the old "do 10 jams and we'll give you 50k" schemes). The payout culture this created has had the single most devastating impact on the game as a whole, as a house's popularity was no longer determined by its quality of service, but was determined by how many simoleans it could throw at everybody, and in-house conversations devolved to little more than counting, interrupted by the occasional "cashing out plz" or "leaving now gimme my money". During its peak, the "payout wars" drove away large numbers of honest, legitimate players who simply could not compete against those who "bought" their visitors with simoleans bought from botters.

Unfortunately, the botters also gave rise to yet another culture - those who made it their life goal to locate and report alleged botters, and a whole new level of in-game harrassment was born. What sims the botters didn't drive out of the game due to the unlevel playing field botting created, the botter witch-hunts that botting gave rise to drove many, many more sims out of the game.

[/ QUOTE ]
I see.
What your saying is that the mindless, judgemental, inconsiderate, egotistical, Vigilante jackasses were not to blame for what they did - it was the botter's fault.
While I can agree that most of those vigilantes didn't have the intelligence to think for themselves, that doesn't excuse the actions they chose to pursue.
And... while I can also agree that botters are not good for the game - the vigilantes were much worse because they operated out of ignorance, relishing the power they thought they were gaining.
The way I see it - if TSO were a bowl of mashed potatos, a botter would be a lump, a vigilante would be an insect.
If I had to take one or the other, I would prefer the lumps.

 

[Guest]

<blockquote><hr>

You're right, it is a tired subject, and after years of discussing it you would think by now everyone here would know why EA will never be able to even contain them, much less eliminate them.

The amount of flawed information people here who should know better are still spouting about them simply amazes me.

[/ QUOTE ]
I have yet to see you contribute anything to this thread.

 

[Guest]

<blockquote><hr>

I see.
What your saying is that the mindless, judgemental, inconsiderate, egotistical, Vigilante jackasses were not to blame for what they did - it was the botter's fault.
While I can agree that most of those vigilantes didn't have the intelligence to think for themselves, that doesn't excuse the actions they chose to pursue.
And... while I can also agree that botters are not good for the game - the vigilantes were much worse because they operated out of ignorance, relishing the power they thought they were gaining.
The way I see it - if TSO were a bowl of mashed potatos, a botter would be a lump, a vigilante would be an insect.
If I had to take one or the other, I would prefer the lumps.

[/ QUOTE ]I don't know about the bowl of mashed potatoes, but I'm starting to feel like a bowl of petunias...

It could also be argued that, if botters didn't exist, neither would the mindless, judgemental, inconsiderate, egotistical, Vigilante jackasses that went on the bot-hunts - and it would be an irrefutable, sound argument.

 

[vapd3317]

well,....I think it may be closer to a bed of roses....we all know what ya gotta watch out for in that situation.

 

[Guest]

<blockquote><hr>

<blockquote><hr>

I see.
What your saying is that the mindless, judgemental, inconsiderate, egotistical, Vigilante jackasses were not to blame for what they did - it was the botter's fault.
While I can agree that most of those vigilantes didn't have the intelligence to think for themselves, that doesn't excuse the actions they chose to pursue.
And... while I can also agree that botters are not good for the game - the vigilantes were much worse because they operated out of ignorance, relishing the power they thought they were gaining.
The way I see it - if TSO were a bowl of mashed potatos, a botter would be a lump, a vigilante would be an insect.
If I had to take one or the other, I would prefer the lumps.

[/ QUOTE ]I don't know about the bowl of mashed potatoes, but I'm starting to feel like a bowl of petunias...

It could also be argued that, if botters didn't exist, neither would the mindless, judgemental, inconsiderate, egotistical, Vigilante jackasses that went on the bot-hunts - and it would be an irrefutable, sound argument.

[/ QUOTE ]
I'm certainly not going to argue the mental abilities, or lack thereof, of vigilantes. The point is that; regardless of the circumstances that spawned them - they are responsible for their own actions. Yes, you may blame their existence on botting, but not their overzealous aggression.
This statement:
<blockquote><hr>

What sims the botters didn't drive out of the game due to the unlevel playing field botting created, <u>the botter witch-hunts that botting gave rise to</u> drove many, many more sims out of the game.

[/ QUOTE ]
implies the botters are responsible for the 'witch-hunts' rather than the 'witch-hunters'.

 

[Guest]

I know this is roughly done, but it should give people an idea of what I am on about. I thought I would put it in here to see what people thought.

Bots can be stopped, what’s needed is to stop them from being able to continue running is to have them not able to answer a question that constantly comes up. The best place to have this question is at payout. It can be done using the following method.

When a task is completed and payment is required a box will appear on the screen instead of clicking the object to receive your payment.
That box will contain a pixel box with 3 letters, which is a proven method of security against bots used all over the world for more valuable information than here in EA Land. Using only 3 letters is more than sufficient and makes identification easier.

Under that box are 4 buttons, 1 of which in a randomly selected position has the correct match to letters in the pixel box. Using the buttons makes it easier to answer “still just a click of the mouse”, does not require any typing and reduces the number of incorrect answers by the user.

A check box to mark wether you wish to continue the task or not. This makes it a 1 click operation for single money objects. The check box remains checked until the player does not wish to continue.

A program to determine the amount of incorrect answers. To stop botting, 3 out of 5 incorrect answers would suspend the account for 24 hours. A player would have to be blind to have more than 2 out 5 incorrect answers. A bot would average 3 out 4 incorrect as the best it could do is randomly select 1 button out of the 4.

 

[imported_Dali Dalinza]

Donavan: I think the "economy" as it has been invented will lead to an increased insect population in the mashed spuds.

 

[Guest]

The idea of having a graphic image of a series of letters to type in to claim payout is an idea that has been mentioned a lot around here. It's a good idea, but BiteMe puts a new, different spin on the idea that I think is really worth considering! The idea of being able to simply click a button instead of having to actually type in the characters is a good one, and randomizing which of four buttons is the correct one should make it bot-proof.

I think this is a great idea!

 

[Guest]

<blockquote><hr>

I know this is roughly done, but it should give people an idea of what I am on about. I thought I would put it in here to see what people thought.

Bots can be stopped, what’s needed is to stop them from being able to continue running is to have them not able to answer a question that constantly comes up. The best place to have this question is at payout. It can be done using the following method.

When a task is completed and payment is required a box will appear on the screen instead of clicking the object to receive your payment.
That box will contain a pixel box with 3 letters, which is a proven method of security against bots used all over the world for more valuable information than here in EA Land. Using only 3 letters is more than sufficient and makes identification easier.

Under that box are 4 buttons, 1 of which in a randomly selected position has the correct match to letters in the pixel box. Using the buttons makes it easier to answer “still just a click of the mouse”, does not require any typing and reduces the number of incorrect answers by the user.

A check box to mark wether you wish to continue the task or not. This makes it a 1 click operation for single money objects. The check box remains checked until the player does not wish to continue.

A program to determine the amount of incorrect answers. To stop botting, 3 out of 5 incorrect answers would suspend the account for 24 hours. A player would have to be blind to have more than 2 out 5 incorrect answers. A bot would average 3 out 4 incorrect as the best it could do is randomly select 1 button out of the 4.

[/ QUOTE ]

suggestions of systems like this have been suggested for several years now and unfortunately as we know have never been implemented. EA has stated that they have something up thir sleeve to handle bots, guess we will have to wait until they activate this feature to know except we won't really know, only the botters who get caught will know LOL

 

[imported_DutchAmerica]

<blockquote><hr>

<blockquote><hr>

<blockquote><hr>

ok so from what I understand then, is that none of us have ever any real hope of building a sim nest egg. Anotherwords the accumualtion of wealth is now impossible?

[/ QUOTE ]

Not at all. It is still very possible. You just need to work 23/7/365 in order to accomplish it is all

Or pay EA 18 gazillion dollars and just buy your nest egg.

[/ QUOTE ]

Its really not even THAT hard. Im sitting on over 200K in EAland now, and have only been playing for 25 days. Im sure there are many out there with much more than that.

[/ QUOTE ]

You sound like you have a plan!

I'm amazed at the amount of people that haven't learned that there is a bit of strategy to playing the sims and accumulating wealth and it's not really that difficult to do but it does take a little discipline and planning on the part of the player.

The main problem I think most players have is that they really haven't a clue as to how to actually make a strategy and follow it through.

 

[Guest]

<blockquote><hr>

I know this is roughly done, but it should give people an idea of what I am on about. I thought I would put it in here to see what people thought.

Bots can be stopped, what’s needed is to stop them from being able to continue running is to have them not able to answer a question that constantly comes up. The best place to have this question is at payout. It can be done using the following method.

When a task is completed and payment is required a box will appear on the screen instead of clicking the object to receive your payment.
That box will contain a pixel box with 3 letters, which is a proven method of security against bots used all over the world for more valuable information than here in EA Land. Using only 3 letters is more than sufficient and makes identification easier.

Under that box are 4 buttons, 1 of which in a randomly selected position has the correct match to letters in the pixel box. Using the buttons makes it easier to answer “still just a click of the mouse”, does not require any typing and reduces the number of incorrect answers by the user.

A check box to mark wether you wish to continue the task or not. This makes it a 1 click operation for single money objects. The check box remains checked until the player does not wish to continue.

A program to determine the amount of incorrect answers. To stop botting, 3 out of 5 incorrect answers would suspend the account for 24 hours. A player would have to be blind to have more than 2 out 5 incorrect answers. A bot would average 3 out 4 incorrect as the best it could do is randomly select 1 button out of the 4.

[/ QUOTE ]
Sounds doable to me - put it on the blog.

 

[Guest]

<blockquote><hr>

<blockquote><hr>

believe (and I'm sure I will be corrected if I mis-read) another poster (not Anna) said that some ppl have access to a forum in which a thread exists for ppl to admit (brag?) about botting. Assuming they are telling the truth and are not simply tossing out false attitude (I'm sooooo bad!) to boost their perceived image as a rebel, then it's fair to make another assumption - i.e. they really are botting.
Buuuut, OTOH, who the hell knows, anymore.

I am not aware of any such forum or thread. I have personally removed posts about botting that were against the tos and as such the roc. I have also had many many simmers im me in game and ask for permission to run thier greening bots on my lot as well as maze or pizza. the list of what I have seen and heard first hand, as well as being observant over the years makes it pretty clear who is doing what . I don't tend to pay much attention on gossip mills, I form my opinions via first hand experiances. I know who complains and I know who uses bots. (shrugs) and I still play the game my way.

[/ QUOTE ]

Read up in this thread, Juli. Jackiee says she participates in a forum, or forums, where people out themselves and even brag about being botters.

As for anyone who says they know who the botters are, but shrugs and says they won't pass this information on to the devs -- shame on you. One has to wonder why a person would make such statements (about knowing who the botters are) and not take action when this is, last time I looked, a forum for people who are interested in TSO.

[/ QUOTE ]

Never said brag.

Do not misquote me.

I said admit.

Also.
Its not my job to blow whistles on people who admit to such things. It is EA's job to find them and crack down on them.

Thats not to say I've never given information that I do get to people who work for EA. I go through the proper channels.


this topic has gone on for so many years. I'm willing to think this NEW team of EA Employees will want to protect the amount of work they put into their NEW economy. And with that they will find a reasonable way to deal with the issues that put that economy in danger.

When you've been around the block as long as I have people talk to you and tell you things. I doubt EA will take heed on my "word on the street is so and so bots and then robs old ladies"

I assure you that EA has better ways to track who is using bots or unfair gains to make money than me saying "OMG look at what this person said to me in YIM"

I'm just another mofo paying my subscription fee

 

[imported_DutchAmerica]

Don't you think turn-about is fair game?

People who constantly harrass other players by reporting them for botting and are found to be wrong should have sanctions placed on them too?

1, 2, 3 strikes your out rule. 3 erroneous reports and the player making the accusations should be suspended for 24 hours.

 

[Guest]

<blockquote><hr>

Don't you think turn-about is fair game?

People who constantly harrass other players by reporting them for botting and are found to be wrong should have sanctions placed on them too?

1, 2, 3 strikes your out rule. 3 erroneous reports and the player making the accusations should be suspended for 24 hours.

[/ QUOTE ]

x

I've always thought that this should happen.

 

[imported_julilyn]

The Sims Online TOS:

Don't use the in-game petitioning system for reporting anything other than Terms of Service (TOS) violations. Don't spam or otherwise abuse EA's email addresses or abuse our technical and customer support services or representatives. Repeated misuse of the in-game TOS reporting system for non-TOS issues, sending excessive messages to our staff, making physical threats, or using abusive language, may result in sanctions up to and including the termination of your Account.

 

[Guest]

<blockquote><hr>

The Sims Online TOS:

Don't use the in-game petitioning system for reporting anything other than Terms of Service (TOS) violations. Don't spam or otherwise abuse EA's email addresses or abuse our technical and customer support services or representatives. Repeated misuse of the in-game TOS reporting system for non-TOS issues, [b[sending excessive messages to our staff,[/b] making physical threats, or using abusive language, may result in sanctions up to and including the termination of your Account.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah thats been there.
but nothing has ever really been done about it

 

[imported_DutchAmerica]

So basically.....ToS rules need to be better enforced?

I know it's in the rules somewhere concerning using 3rd party software too

 

[Guest]

Yes they do. Specifically that rule.
and yes at least I know there was one about 3rd party programs.

 

[Guest]

<blockquote><hr>

Don't you think turn-about is fair game?

People who constantly harrass other players by reporting them for botting and are found to be wrong should have sanctions placed on them too?

1, 2, 3 strikes your out rule. 3 erroneous reports and the player making the accusations should be suspended for 24 hours.

[/ QUOTE ]
Of course I do. Anybody who is guilty of harassing others should be sanctioned by game authorities.

 

[Roger Wilco]

<blockquote><hr>

<blockquote><hr>

You're right, it is a tired subject, and after years of discussing it you would think by now everyone here would know why EA will never be able to even contain them, much less eliminate them.

The amount of flawed information people here who should know better are still spouting about them simply amazes me.

[/ QUOTE ]
I have yet to see you contribute anything to this thread.

[/ QUOTE ]
Oh cool, I'm being dissed by a mod. Anyway, the reason I don't contribute much anymore is that this is thread 1,000,001 on the subject, and I'm tired of explaining to a forum of people who are mostly unwilling to look at this subject objectively, and have the retention level of burnt toast.

Being a mod, you of all people should know why this whole discussion is pointless. It's been beaten to death and still people are espousing complete rubbish on the subject. You might consider re-reading some of the million other bot related threads we've had over the years about how and why EA can't stop a determined macro user who knows what EA looks for, how EA bans players, etc. You would think that after five years of idiotic anti-botting measures that the posters here would have figured out that EA doesn't even understand very well what they are trying to eliminate. After all, doesn't five years of total failure at combating macro users tell you something? But no, people here ramble on and on about the scourge of botters, make idiotic suggestions, and generally just rant pointlessly a lot about how EA should ban them. Good luck with that.

The fact of the matter is that anything EA does (including banning) a smart farmer can counter. The only people being caught and banned are the small time dolts who run an unattended macro overnight a few to many times and get caught. These people are not economy wreckers. The heavyweight money grinders (who left after the exploit but are starting to return) attend their macros and respond to EA questions with a human being. They also now have the ability to look less macro-like in their timing. <u>The fundamental problem is not botters, but is the flawed game design EA implemented for earning simoleans.</u>

Many of us pointed out in beta that their game design is just begging to be macroed. Naturally, we were totally ignored. So go ahead folks, rant about bots and ignore why the problem still exists - the refusal by EA to redesign their flawed simolean making design for TSO. Until they do, macro users have no reason to stop, and EA has a five year track record of proving they can't stop them.

 

[Guest]

<blockquote><hr>

<blockquote><hr>

<blockquote><hr>

You're right, it is a tired subject, and after years of discussing it you would think by now everyone here would know why EA will never be able to even contain them, much less eliminate them.

The amount of flawed information people here who should know better are still spouting about them simply amazes me.

[/ QUOTE ]
I have yet to see you contribute anything to this thread.

[/ QUOTE ]
Oh cool, I'm being dissed by a mod. Anyway, the reason I don't contribute much anymore is that this is thread 1,000,001 on the subject, and I'm tired of explaining to a forum of people who are mostly unwilling to look at this subject objectively, and have the retention level of burnt toast.

Being a mod, you of all people should know why this whole discussion is pointless. It's been beaten to death and still people are espousing complete rubbish on the subject. You might consider re-reading some of the million other bot related threads we've had over the years about how and why EA can't stop a determined macro user who knows what EA looks for, how EA bans players, etc. You would think that after five years of idiotic anti-botting measures that the posters here would have figured out that EA doesn't even understand very well what they are trying to eliminate. After all, doesn't five years of total failure at combating macro users tell you something? But no, people here ramble on and on about the scourge of botters, make idiotic suggestions, and generally just rant pointlessly a lot about how EA should ban them. Good luck with that.

The fact of the matter is that anything EA does (including banning) a smart farmer can counter. The only people being caught and banned are the small time dolts who run an unattended macro overnight a few to many times and get caught. These people are not economy wreckers. The heavyweight money grinders (who left after the exploit but are starting to return) attend their macros and respond to EA questions with a human being. They also now have the ability to look less macro-like in their timing. <u>The fundamental problem is not botters, but is the flawed game design EA implemented for earning simoleans.</u>

Many of us pointed out in beta that their game design is just begging to be macroed. Naturally, we were totally ignored. So go ahead folks, rant about bots and ignore why the problem still exists - the refusal by EA to redesign their flawed simolean making design for TSO. Until they do, macro users have no reason to stop, and EA has a five year track record of proving they can't stop them.

[/ QUOTE ]

excellent post roger and all of that is 100% corect.

 

[Guest]

<blockquote><hr>

<blockquote><hr>

<blockquote><hr>

<blockquote><hr>

You're right, it is a tired subject, and after years of discussing it you would think by now everyone here would know why EA will never be able to even contain them, much less eliminate them.

The amount of flawed information people here who should know better are still spouting about them simply amazes me.

[/ QUOTE ]
I have yet to see you contribute anything to this thread.

[/ QUOTE ]
Oh cool, I'm being dissed by a mod. Anyway, the reason I don't contribute much anymore is that this is thread 1,000,001 on the subject, and I'm tired of explaining to a forum of people who are mostly unwilling to look at this subject objectively, and have the retention level of burnt toast.

Being a mod, you of all people should know why this whole discussion is pointless. It's been beaten to death and still people are espousing complete rubbish on the subject. You might consider re-reading some of the million other bot related threads we've had over the years about how and why EA can't stop a determined macro user who knows what EA looks for, how EA bans players, etc. You would think that after five years of idiotic anti-botting measures that the posters here would have figured out that EA doesn't even understand very well what they are trying to eliminate. After all, doesn't five years of total failure at combating macro users tell you something? But no, people here ramble on and on about the scourge of botters, make idiotic suggestions, and generally just rant pointlessly a lot about how EA should ban them. Good luck with that.

The fact of the matter is that anything EA does (including banning) a smart farmer can counter. The only people being caught and banned are the small time dolts who run an unattended macro overnight a few to many times and get caught. These people are not economy wreckers. The heavyweight money grinders (who left after the exploit but are starting to return) attend their macros and respond to EA questions with a human being. They also now have the ability to look less macro-like in their timing. <u>The fundamental problem is not botters, but is the flawed game design EA implemented for earning simoleans.</u>

Many of us pointed out in beta that their game design is just begging to be macroed. Naturally, we were totally ignored. So go ahead folks, rant about bots and ignore why the problem still exists - the refusal by EA to redesign their flawed simolean making design for TSO. Until they do, macro users have no reason to stop, and EA has a five year track record of proving they can't stop them.

[/ QUOTE ]

excellent post roger and all of that is 100% corect.

[/ QUOTE ]

I fully agree that measures that EA have taken in the past have been pointless and have involved very little understanding of what they are up against.
To say that nothing can be done to stop these guys is however completely wrong. To call measures that posters have placed in here idiotic is not only insulting to the posters but counter productive. You guys seem to imply that you have the expertise to tell if a measure will work or not, tell me where mine will fail.

 

[imported_Dali Dalinza]

<blockquote><hr>

You guys seem to imply that you have the expertise to tell if a measure will work or not, tell me where mine will fail.

[/ QUOTE ]

Roger responded that the power botters attend to the game, so that they would be there to enter the codes you suggested.

 

[Guest]

<blockquote><hr>

<blockquote><hr>

You guys seem to imply that you have the expertise to tell if a measure will work or not, tell me where mine will fail.

[/ QUOTE ]

Roger responded that the power botters attend to the game, so that they would be there to enter the codes you suggested.

[/ QUOTE ]

And if they have to do that for every payout collection, what would be the use of botting? Also it would make it very difficult to run dozens of bots together.

 

[imported_fajjaa]

The "botters" that run these 3rd party programs are business persons. They run several games. They make their living by creating in game monies and game objects in alot more games then just TSO. If Luc can ban these operations from existing, I would be very surprised, I would be more apt to think that there is some kind of mutual understanding between the 2. If someone has had 100 accounts in the past, I am sure records are available to identify anyone in question.

 

[Guest]

<blockquote><hr>

<blockquote><hr>

<blockquote><hr>

<blockquote><hr>

<blockquote><hr>

You're right, it is a tired subject, and after years of discussing it you would think by now everyone here would know why EA will never be able to even contain them, much less eliminate them.

The amount of flawed information people here who should know better are still spouting about them simply amazes me.

[/ QUOTE ]
I have yet to see you contribute anything to this thread.

[/ QUOTE ]
Oh cool, I'm being dissed by a mod. Anyway, the reason I don't contribute much anymore is that this is thread 1,000,001 on the subject, and I'm tired of explaining to a forum of people who are mostly unwilling to look at this subject objectively, and have the retention level of burnt toast.

Being a mod, you of all people should know why this whole discussion is pointless. It's been beaten to death and still people are espousing complete rubbish on the subject. You might consider re-reading some of the million other bot related threads we've had over the years about how and why EA can't stop a determined macro user who knows what EA looks for, how EA bans players, etc. You would think that after five years of idiotic anti-botting measures that the posters here would have figured out that EA doesn't even understand very well what they are trying to eliminate. After all, doesn't five years of total failure at combating macro users tell you something? But no, people here ramble on and on about the scourge of botters, make idiotic suggestions, and generally just rant pointlessly a lot about how EA should ban them. Good luck with that.

The fact of the matter is that anything EA does (including banning) a smart farmer can counter. The only people being caught and banned are the small time dolts who run an unattended macro overnight a few to many times and get caught. These people are not economy wreckers. The heavyweight money grinders (who left after the exploit but are starting to return) attend their macros and respond to EA questions with a human being. They also now have the ability to look less macro-like in their timing. <u>The fundamental problem is not botters, but is the flawed game design EA implemented for earning simoleans.</u>

Many of us pointed out in beta that their game design is just begging to be macroed. Naturally, we were totally ignored. So go ahead folks, rant about bots and ignore why the problem still exists - the refusal by EA to redesign their flawed simolean making design for TSO. Until they do, macro users have no reason to stop, and EA has a five year track record of proving they can't stop them.

[/ QUOTE ]

excellent post roger and all of that is 100% corect.

[/ QUOTE ]

I fully agree that measures that EA have taken in the past have been pointless and have involved very little understanding of what they are up against.
To say that nothing can be done to stop these guys is however completely wrong. To call measures that posters have placed in here idiotic is not only insulting to the posters but counter productive. You guys seem to imply that you have the expertise to tell if a measure will work or not, tell me where mine will fail.

[/ QUOTE ]

even your system is not guaranteed i'm sorry to say. This is a game and the questions etc would be programmed into it. whats to stop a programmer from having s
their bot recognize the questions and select appropriate answers. anything can be possible in computers so dont dispell them just because you think its not possible, you just might be very surprised to see what some clever indicviduals actually are able to do.. Afterall we have people hacking into some of the most sophisticated security systems around the net dont we?

 

[Guest]

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The "botters" that run these 3rd party programs are business persons. They run several games. They make their living by creating in game monies and game objects in alot more games then just TSO. If Luc can ban these operations from existing, I would be very surprised, I would be more apt to think that there is some kind of mutual understanding between the 2. If someone has had 100 accounts in the past, I am sure records are available to identify anyone in question.

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I am sure that Luc knows exactly who these guys are, proving they have been botting is the problem. Catching them botting has proven to be difficult to say the least. They will not ban anyone unless absolute 100% proof is available. Their attitude towards it, which I agree with by the way is if 1 innocent person gets banned to get 100 botters , it's not the right way to go about it. Now I know things were different in the past. That is their attitude now though. In the past and I guess even now they have taken the approach of detection. What I have proposed and I feel needs to be done is way of prevention. Stop them from being able to use their bots, not try and find them when they are using them.

 

[Guest]

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You're right, it is a tired subject, and after years of discussing it you would think by now everyone here would know why EA will never be able to even contain them, much less eliminate them.

The amount of flawed information people here who should know better are still spouting about them simply amazes me.

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I have yet to see you contribute anything to this thread.

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Oh cool, I'm being dissed by a mod. Anyway, the reason I don't contribute much anymore is that this is thread 1,000,001 on the subject, and I'm tired of explaining to a forum of people who are mostly unwilling to look at this subject objectively, and have the retention level of burnt toast.

Being a mod, you of all people should know why this whole discussion is pointless. It's been beaten to death and still people are espousing complete rubbish on the subject. You might consider re-reading some of the million other bot related threads we've had over the years about how and why EA can't stop a determined macro user who knows what EA looks for, how EA bans players, etc. You would think that after five years of idiotic anti-botting measures that the posters here would have figured out that EA doesn't even understand very well what they are trying to eliminate. After all, doesn't five years of total failure at combating macro users tell you something? But no, people here ramble on and on about the scourge of botters, make idiotic suggestions, and generally just rant pointlessly a lot about how EA should ban them. Good luck with that.

The fact of the matter is that anything EA does (including banning) a smart farmer can counter. The only people being caught and banned are the small time dolts who run an unattended macro overnight a few to many times and get caught. These people are not economy wreckers. The heavyweight money grinders (who left after the exploit but are starting to return) attend their macros and respond to EA questions with a human being. They also now have the ability to look less macro-like in their timing. <u>The fundamental problem is not botters, but is the flawed game design EA implemented for earning simoleans.</u>

Many of us pointed out in beta that their game design is just begging to be macroed. Naturally, we were totally ignored. So go ahead folks, rant about bots and ignore why the problem still exists - the refusal by EA to redesign their flawed simolean making design for TSO. Until they do, macro users have no reason to stop, and EA has a five year track record of proving they can't stop them.

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excellent post roger and all of that is 100% corect.

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I fully agree that measures that EA have taken in the past have been pointless and have involved very little understanding of what they are up against.
To say that nothing can be done to stop these guys is however completely wrong. To call measures that posters have placed in here idiotic is not only insulting to the posters but counter productive. You guys seem to imply that you have the expertise to tell if a measure will work or not, tell me where mine will fail.

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even your system is not guaranteed i'm sorry to say. This is a game and the questions etc would be programmed into it. whats to stop a programmer from having s
their bot recognize the questions and select appropriate answers. anything can be possible in computers so dont dispell them just because you think its not possible, you just might be very surprised to see what some clever indicviduals actually are able to do.. Afterall we have people hacking into some of the most sophisticated security systems around the net dont we?

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Incorrect, the question sent is a code generated bitmap file, the name of that file is also generated and stored in the server waiting for a reply from the user. That file name is different for every question sent out. The client computer has no way of determine the question from any script or information sent to it. The only possible means of reading the question would be to read the pixels in the bitmap.
This is much more difficult than the pixel reading they do in these bot programs now. The bit map generated has billions of possible formats. At best with a huge amount of programming it would only be able to generate probabilities to the letters hidden inside. Even if they were able to get it right 50% of the time the bot would fail to run for anything longer than a short period of time.

Also to add, you say that anything is possible with computers, if that is true, then stopping these botters is possible.

 

[Guest]

Well either way i guess the only thing is time will tell. Lets see what exactly the devs have to prevent boys and see if any of those bot makers are still around to recode their bots to get around the new preventions. Honestly I think tney've left for much greener pastures. Lets face it TSO has a very low userbase obviously and I think the bot makers aren'ty really concerned with tso anymore as they once were. I think there are far more *disconnect over ride* bots out here still going then the job bots. Face it majority of the players override that feature. go to any skill house generally a few sims talk the rest r silent..

 

[Guest]

To eliminate botting.....

Take a hard look at a game called Runescape. They have virtually eliminated botting and have superior measures to catch botters. They have also virtually eliminated real world trading of their objects. It can be done. It just takes some time, effort, and a whole lot of secrecy up until the moment it is implemented.

 

[turtleface]

That's right! Runescape has done an awesome job of eliminating botting!
They have a variety of frequent random events which bots can't get past, and as i recently discovered after sneakily trying to use a clicker program to gain mage levels without doing all that horrible, endless clicking myself, they have a way of detecting the repeated, identical clicks of many bot programs. I won't be trying that again, lol. There is no way for players to aquire in game wealth without earning it themslves due to the balanced trade system [which wouldn't work for tso, but was very clever] Maybe ea should talk to jagex and ask them for help, lol.