anyone recently gone though EMT class?

[Skylark SP]

Thats just horseshiet. You have good workers because you hired good workers. It has nothing to do with them smoking or not smoking weed. I know a LOT of sorry people who have never taken a single toke. I can promise you if you hired those guys they wouldn't last a week in your deptartment. On the other hand I know a lot of good hard working pot smokers who have a high work ethic and care about their quiality of life.

I'm not sure what you mean by "selfish fools". If your saying that people who smoke come to work high and have no consideration for anything you're just plain wrong man. Thats like saying a guy who has a beer on occation while watching a football game should be lumped in with full blow drunks who have had several DUI's. Everything in moderation. There is nothing wrong with having a drink or smoking some weed on occation if your responsable about it.

I know the first thing I look for in reviewing resumes is if they are a pot head, because it gives me a feeling of security as everyone knows those are the most responsible, dedicated employees. rolleyes:

It never ceases to amaze me how people discuss "responsibility" in the same sentence with the use of substances that are in general ONLY meant to alter brain chemistry, mood, etc. in an unusual way. The very nature of the substance as applied, decreases the person's reaction times, and ability to make decisions. You don't have to be stoned out of your head to be impaired, and many people, and I will lump people who use alcohol to "unwind" and "have fun" in this category as well, are impaired and can't tell that they are, but you can bet the people around them can tell.

While it is true that sleep deprivation, poor nutrition, and a gazillion health factors can also cause performance issues, there is a big difference in the doctor who makes a mistake because she had a 48 hour straight shift because of chronic under staffing, and the one that made a mistake because sometime in the period before she came on shift she did some weed in the "privacy of her own home" or got smashed on liquor or any other controlled or non controlled substance used with the intent of changing states, that affected her performance. The end result may not different for the person on the receiving end of course, but we all know there is a difference in the causes, ethically.

-Skylark

 

[TexasBlack]

Well I don't use illegal drugs. I have seen the consequences with my own eyes thou and can tell ya it ain't pretty. It's called a gateway drug because it tends to lead people to think it's ok to try another one based on the brief if this one did'nt kill ya what about the others. There is plenty of proof out there. I've also had friends go to prison for years because of it and they all regret it when they are in that position trust me I know. I can understand your not wanting to stop what you like to do. But do you need to put me or my family at risk because of it.I'm glad we have drug tests I would'nt give a cop a loaded gun when he's high why should I let you drive.

 

[Castor]

If your saying that people who smoke come to work high and have no consideration for anything you're just plain wrong man. QUOTE]
That is exactly what i am saying. If you are coming to my job and you are putting on my uniform, you are an extension of me and my company and our company image and to some extent, my own personal livelihood, and the livelihoods of your coworkers.

Pot smokers love to toss out individual freedom and make this issue as a personal attack on their rights. But you are still missing my point. I dont give a **** what you are doing in your personal life, as long as it does not mess with my business. You want to smoke, then go right ahead, but you will not be working for me.

There are rules in life, and whether you think they are fair or not is irrevelant. If you think they are unfair, then change them. But until they are changed, they are the rules in which we need to abide by because that is how we are judged.

 

[Skylark SP]

I'm glad we have drug tests I would'nt give a cop a loaded gun when he's high why should I let you drive.

Seriously, I wonder how many of the people who are such rabid defenders of pot smoking would REALLY be totally comfortable KNOWING for a fact that their pilot, ship's captain, surgeon, etc. was a regular user, in utilizing their services?

-Skylark

 

[Alizaren]

I would'nt give a cop a loaded gun when he's high why should I let you drive.

Amen!

 

[TheScoundrelRico]

LOL, now thats funny right there, a thief talkin trash about stoners. LOSER

I suppose if I actually knew who you were I could come back with a witty comment?

Who are you by the way? Do you even play Siege?...la

 

[Emil IsTemp]

Seriously, I wonder how many of the people who are such rabid defenders of pot smoking would REALLY be totally comfortable KNOWING for a fact that their pilot, ship's captain, surgeon, etc. was a regular user, in utilizing their services?

-Skylark

Yea good point. Pilots shouldnt smoke then fly. Its ONLY ok for them to drink before flying... right?

 

[Emil IsTemp]

Well I don't use illegal drugs. I have seen the consequences with my own eyes thou and can tell ya it ain't pretty. It's called a gateway drug because it tends to lead people to think it's ok to try another one based on the brief if this one did'nt kill ya what about the others. There is plenty of proof out there. I've also had friends go to prison for years because of it and they all regret it when they are in that position trust me I know. I can understand your not wanting to stop what you like to do. But do you need to put me or my family at risk because of it.I'm glad we have drug tests I would'nt give a cop a loaded gun when he's high why should I let you drive.

Give a cop a loaded gun? pfft. Just let him taze and beat you. Then call in some backup so they can taze and beat you too. Or how about some of Chicago's finest, hmm? Goin into a bar and beating the female bartender because she cut you off? Then sending in one of your chronies to try and bribe her a few hours later.. Talk about putting your family at risk eh?

Maybe pot would have chilled him out?

That gateway drug idea is such a load of chit.. Pot, booze and cigarettes are the limit of my experiences.. NOT ONCE have i thought about ever taking it further. People who do are the ones with problems..

IMO, non-smokers like to hate n discriminate the smokers, without even the slightest bit of understanding or reason of the situation..

Its thinking like this, by the open-minded intelligent citizens of our once great country that leads to an UNWINNABLE war in the desert.

The first mistake 98% of people make, is NOT looking at both sides of the picture.

Your either for or against.

Follow orders blindly.

Dont ask questions.

Democrat or Republican.

Mission Accomplished.

All in all, just another obedient TOOL of tha man...

 

[Castor]

Yea good point. Pilots shouldnt smoke then fly. Its ONLY ok for them to drink before flying... right?

pilots are not permitted to drink alcohol 12 hours before they fly per the FAA.

 

[Emil IsTemp]

pilots are not permitted to drink alcohol 12 hours before they fly per the FAA.

Thanks..

Pot is illegal, and I still smoke it.. Any questions?

Theyre still gonna find a way to get loaded. Or perhaps the stewardess will bring him one or three...

 

[kelmo]

You folks do realize that this discussion on this forum is not going to change any minds, much less any laws. Keep it civil and topical and the discussion will be permitted.

 

[Razz]

If your saying that people who smoke come to work high and have no consideration for anything you're just plain wrong man.

Funny that you pull just this part out and quote it. If you read the whole reply I am talking about your view on smoking weed as the exreme chronic user. Not all pot smokers are losers. Not all smokers are chronic users. Not all people who have a beer are drunkards.

If you are coming to my job and you are putting on my uniform, you are an extension of me and my company and our company image and to some extent, my own personal livelihood, and the livelihoods of your coworkers.

Pot smokers love to toss out individual freedom and make this issue as a personal attack on their rights. But you are still missing my point. I dont give a **** what you are doing in your personal life, as long as it does not mess with my business. You want to smoke, then go right ahead, but you will not be working for me.

I understand your view on smoking. It's illegal and based on that alone you feel it is wrong and you don't want to deal with those kind of people in your work place. No argument there either. If it makes you feel better then by all means. I also assume by your "black and white" take on this subject all your employees don't drink either?

There are rules in life, and whether you think they are fair or not is irrevelant. If you think they are unfair, then change them. But until they are changed, they are the rules in which we need to abide by because that is how we are judged.

I think everyone on this thread knows the legality of weed. The thread seems to be discussing why weed has been made illegal while other substances, that are way more harmful to people and people around them, are allowed to be used. And once again I agree with you. Weed is illegal. This is why I don't smoke weed at all. I choose not to drink because I simply don't like it.

I only replied to your post because you said the people you hired are good people because they don't do drugs. I still say thats bullshiet. The people you hired are good workers because you hired good workers. The fact that they do or dont smoke responsively is irrelevent.

 

[Razz]

You folks do realize that this discussion on this forum is not going to change any minds, much less any laws. Keep it civil and topical and the discussion will be permitted.

Yeah but it's nice to be able to have a place where you can have conversations like this and read other peoples point of view.

 

[Skylark SP]

I only replied to your post because you said the people you hired are good people because they don't do drugs.

Hmmm...exactly where did he say that?

The only thing I saw in his post is that if you test positive for illegal drugs while employed in his organization, you will find yourself unemployed. I am sure that he has fired people for other unsatisfactory job performance, not tied to positive testing for drug use. Lack of drug use alone certainly does not make for a good employee, but illegal drug use sure is a red flag about negative behaviors one might expect, if nothing else that you have a person on your staff so willing to break the laws of the land.

-Skylark

 

[Alrich]

big difference between the pothead who "needs" (in his/her own mind) to get high, and stay high all the time and a responsible tax paying person who likes to get home from a 10 hour shift and unwind infront of his television with a joint.

Some will have a beer, some will take a bath, some go smoke a joint. What they do on their own time after work does not effect their job performance. Now if they woke up, toked up and drove to work, yeah different issue, but not everyone who smokes weed is like that! Don't know why that is so hard for some to understand :-/ Sure there are some out there who choose to live that way and I hope they're happy working at walmart and living in their parent's basement till they are 45, but leave those responsible people who can contribute to society alone if they want to smoke in the privacy of their own home and free time.

The whole gateway drug is a bunch of hooey. Hell when I was growing up I had a friend who only smoked weed and never even thought of doing anything else. Well, unfortunately, he got caught and admitted into "rehab". In "rehab" is where he learned of other drugs and substances and sadly he died from huffing 7 months later, using it because it didn't show up on drug tests.

Or the counselor at a private outpatient facility in new jersey who got arrested for stabbing his wife 19 times after smoking crack he confiscated from his patients.

There will always be people who take things too far. There will also be people who have learned of something called responsibility and self control. However which ever someone may be, its their decision to make for themselves, not to be imposed on them by others. And its not like it takes a rocket scientist to know the difference

Guns don't kill people. People do. don't hate on the substance, hate the few who can't control themselves who ruin it for everyone else.

 

[Mythic]

because i sent the office staff for tests right after the christmas holidays. I like to mix it up.

Good answer heh, ok ok Ill stop sterotyping you as a steriotypical kinda person

 

[Emil IsTemp]

big difference between the pothead who "needs" (in his/her own mind) to get high, and stay high all the time and a responsible tax paying person who likes to get home from a 10 hour shift and unwind infront of his television with a joint.

Some will have a beer, some will take a bath, some go smoke a joint. What they do on their own time after work does not effect their job performance. Now if they woke up, toked up and drove to work, yeah different issue, but not everyone who smokes weed is like that! Don't know why that is so hard for some to understand :-/ Sure there are some out there who choose to live that way and I hope they're happy working at walmart and living in their parent's basement till they are 45, but leave those responsible people who can contribute to society alone if they want to smoke in the privacy of their own home and free time.

The whole gateway drug is a bunch of hooey. Hell when I was growing up I had a friend who only smoked weed and never even thought of doing anything else. Well, unfortunately, he got caught and admitted into "rehab". In "rehab" is where he learned of other drugs and substances and sadly he died from huffing 7 months later, using it because it didn't show up on drug tests.

Or the counselor at a private outpatient facility in new jersey who got arrested for stabbing his wife 19 times after smoking crack he confiscated from his patients.

There will always be people who take things too far. There will also be people who have learned of something called responsibility and self control. However which ever someone may be, its their decision to make for themselves, not to be imposed on them by others. And its not like it takes a rocket scientist to know the difference

Guns don't kill people. People do. don't hate on the substance, hate the few who can't control themselves who ruin it for everyone else.

/signed

Cmon kElmo, SP forums havent seen this much debate/discussion/attention in.. ever?

*edit*

I, as should the rest of you, do enjoy my freedom of conversation/debate/brainstorming/exchanging of ideals ect ect..

it IS a freedom by the way..

..a freedom which few have, will fight for, and still are murdered over, in this world.

 

[Mythic]

Now, I got to thinking(yes we are capable of doing that)If marijuana were in fact legal and the fact that an individual tested positive for marijuana use had no effect on the outcome of insurance claims or company/client relations, how many of you would still refuse to hire a qualified candidate because of their choice to smoke?

I ask because, as you may have guessed, I smoke regularly. I am more then capable of performing my job duties, I take a great deal of pride in my work.
I believe that if your going to do something do your best. I am an ideal candidate and a great asset to any company I choose to work for. Unfortunatly my choice to smoke marijuana constantly puts me at risk of being terminated for testing positive in random testing that the insurance companies require.

 

[Emil IsTemp]

Now, I got to thinking(yes we are capable of doing that)If marijuana were in fact legal and the fact that an individual tested positive for marijuana use had no effect on the outcome of insurance claims or company/client relations, how many of you would still refuse to hire a qualified candidate because of their choice to smoke?

I ask because, as you may have guessed, I smoke regularly. I am more then capable of performing my job duties, I take a great deal of pride in my work.
I believe that if your going to do something do your best. I am an ideal candidate and a great asset to any company I choose to work for. Unfortunatly my choice to smoke marijuana constantly puts me at risk of being terminated for testing positive in random testing that the insurance companies require.

Honestly, i would only hire potheads. It would be a pre-qualification at my company. Those who dont smoke, dont get hired. I would also give randoms, and if you dont test positive, your fired, and can go work for Castor.. and get free pizza on fridays..

Joking aside, as long as you can perform your required job tasks to the best of your ability, without incident, without problems or conflict, i see NO PROBLEM hiring ANYONE; regardless if they smoke or not.

 

[TheScoundrelRico]

Cmon kElmo, SP forums havent seen this much debate/discussion/attention in.. ever?

Goes to show how new to the forum you are. This forum (the one on the old Stratics) was always the most active of the shard forums...lots of discussion used to take place. This was back before the forum had active mods. Now the forum get buy/sell thread...pretty sad really...la

 

[Mythic]

The shortest amount of time by todays testing methods that marijuana can no longer be detected in ones system is 2 days.
Alcohol can be detected for roughly as long as a person is buzzed or drunk or shortly there after

If your employee damages property and is given a BAC test and it in return concludes that said individual was drunk when the incident happened they are going to be fired. Not because They got drunk last night and came to work sober, but because they were drunk when the incident happened.

What we need is a sure fire way like a BAC to determine if an individual was high when any reportable incidents occur. This of course would only be neccesary if marijuana was legal and I honestly cant think of any reason why it should be Illegal considering that alcohol is legal.

 

[Skylark SP]

Joking aside, as long as you can perform your required job tasks to the best of your ability, without incident, without problems or conflict, i see NO PROBLEM hiring ANYONE; regardless if they smoke or not.

And exactly how do you know you are performing to the best of your ability if you routinely by choice ingest/inhale whatever, a non-essential substance, that is clearly known to affect brain chemistry, and is also known that residue of those compounds can be stored in the body tissues for months if not years?

Just because one can perform "satisfactorily" in spite of something doesn't make a good case for doing one's best, IMO.

I recently was saved the trouble of firing an admin assistant, when he quit. His job performance was substandard, and I suspected that he was significantly affected by regular alcohol consumption on his "off" hours. He also smoked cigarettes. I have no idea what else he might have chosen to consume/inhale on his "personal" time. I also have no way of knowing how his job performance would have been had he not regularly consumed any of those substances. I might still have had to fire him for lousy job performance if he had never smoked anything, and was a teetotaller, but I guess I'll never know.

The scary thing is that he quit to go work on weapons systems for the U.S. military, where presumably the standards are lower than doing entry level clerical work for me.

-Skylark

 

[Razz]

I know the first thing I look for in reviewing resumes is if they are a pot head, because it gives me a feeling of security as everyone knows those are the most responsible, dedicated employees. rolleyes:

You totally missed the point. But it was funny. =)

It never ceases to amaze me how people discuss "responsibility" in the same sentence with the use of substances that are in general ONLY meant to alter brain chemistry, mood, etc. in an unusual way. The very nature of the substance as applied, decreases the person's reaction times, and ability to make decisions. You don't have to be stoned out of your head to be impaired, and many people, and I will lump people who use alcohol to "unwind" and "have fun" in this category as well, are impaired and can't tell that they are, but you can bet the people around them can tell.

While it is true that sleep deprivation, poor nutrition, and a gazillion health factors can also cause performance issues, there is a big difference in the doctor who makes a mistake because she had a 48 hour straight shift because of chronic under staffing, and the one that made a mistake because sometime in the period before she came on shift she did some weed in the "privacy of her own home" or got smashed on liquor or any other controlled or non controlled substance used with the intent of changing states, that affected her performance. The end result may not different for the person on the receiving end of course, but we all know there is a difference in the causes, ethically.

-Skylark

I totally agree.

Seriously, I wonder how many of the people who are such rabid defenders of pot smoking would REALLY be totally comfortable KNOWING for a fact that their pilot, ship's captain, surgeon, etc. was a regular user, in utilizing their services?

-Skylark

As long as they are not under the influence at work. I would have no issue with it.

I only replied to your post because you said the people you hired are good people because they don't do drugs. I still say thats bullshiet. The people you hired are good workers because you hired good workers. The fact that they do or dont smoke responsively is irrelevent.

Hmmm...exactly where did he say that?

The only thing I saw in his post is that if you test positive for illegal drugs while employed in his organization, you will find yourself unemployed.

-Skylark

It was one of his first posts on the first page. And your right he did not say those exact words. I was paraphrasing.

Lack of drug use alone certainly does not make for a good employee, but illegal drug use sure is a red flag about negative behaviors one might expect, if nothing else that you have a person on your staff so willing to break the laws of the land.

-Skylark

That not really true. There are plenty of pot smokers that are law abiding (present topic excluded), taxing paying, upstanding people.

 

[TheScoundrelRico]

That not really true. There are plenty of pot smokers that are law abiding (present topic excluded), taxing paying, upstanding people.

The fact they are law breakers eliminates them from being listed as "upstanding people"...la

 

[Mythic]

The only thing I saw in his post is that if you test positive for illegal drugs while employed in his organization, you will find yourself unemployed. I am sure that he has fired people for other unsatisfactory job performance, not tied to positive testing for drug use. Lack of drug use alone certainly does not make for a good employee, but illegal drug use sure is a red flag about negative behaviors one might expect, if nothing else that you have a person on your staff so willing to break the laws of the land.

-Skylark

I actually agree with this 100%
But I will point out that Misdameanor offenses have absolutly zero effect on considering hiring employees, An employee is not required to note many misdameanor law offenses. In most states possession of less then one ounce of marijuana in a single container is a misdameanor offense punishable only by a meager fine.

 

[Razz]

The fact they are law breakers eliminates them from being listed as "upstanding people"...la

If you wanna split hairs and not try to see what I'm trying to say then I will go with your logic. Law breakers are not upstanding people. Then everyone you and I know, including ourselves, would not fall into that catagory. People break laws all the time, everyday. From going over the speed limit or their sexual preferences.

If you want to make a point please do so. Trying to nit pick isn't the way to go. Even if Skylark and I do not see eye to eye she is making really good points and has some insightful comments.

 

[TheScoundrelRico]

Then everyone you and I know, including ourselves, would not fall into that catagory. People break laws all the time, everyday.

Speak for yourself pothead. I don't speed...la

 

[Mythic]

All Rico wants to do is get his # of posts up. He would argue all day long that they sky is red just to be heard. Im suprised hes typing more the one word at a time. And on that note I think Ill just sit back and smoke me one cuzz I got the rest of the day off

 

[TheScoundrelRico]

Ah yes, the old fall back..."post count blah blah blah" You caught me...shucks. ROFL...la

 

[Emil IsTemp]

And exactly how do you know you are performing to the best of your ability if you routinely by choice ingest/inhale whatever, a non-essential substance, that is clearly known to affect brain chemistry, and is also known that residue of those compounds can be stored in the body tissues for months if not years?

Just because one can perform "satisfactorily" in spite of something doesn't make a good case for doing one's best, IMO.

I recently was saved the trouble of firing an admin assistant, when he quit. His job performance was substandard, and I suspected that he was significantly affected by regular alcohol consumption on his "off" hours. He also smoked cigarettes. I have no idea what else he might have chosen to consume/inhale on his "personal" time. I also have no way of knowing how his job performance would have been had he not regularly consumed any of those substances. I might still have had to fire him for lousy job performance if he had never smoked anything, and was a teetotaller, but I guess I'll never know.

The scary thing is that he quit to go work on weapons systems for the U.S. military, where presumably the standards are lower than doing entry level clerical work for me.

-Skylark

My point exactly. You let him go for sub-par performance. As a result of pot/alcohol usage? Cant be certain.. Should the speculation be the deciding factor in your decision to keep him or let him go? No.

Like (Mythic i think?) stated, I as well as other smokers, can oft run circles around our co-workers.. and get passed up for that promotion because we listen to floyd n marley.

It does however become a problem when smoking/drinking is all you look forward to, and become lazy/chronic/dependant. A lack in work performance, less sociable, sitting inside and playing video games all day... Nothing productive happens as a result, and its time to take a break/move on.

...lo?

*e dut*

I worked in an office for awhile.. To me, Hawaiian shirt day, and pizza friday is like a slap in the face. Just me though.

 

[Razz]

Speak for yourself pothead. I don't speed...la

Well that speaks volumes. If you took the time and read other peoples posts and tried to understand what was being conveyed you would know that I don't smoke pot. I also don't drink.

 

[TheScoundrelRico]

Neither to I. So?...la

 

[Razz]

Neither to I. So?...la

Dude. You are not making any sense. I think you really are just posting for the sake of post count. I'm done with you.

Oh and I read some of your other posts. Your name and mood is fitting.

/ignore

 

[Emil IsTemp]

Neither to I. So?...la

Im not one to recommend pot to anyone, but oh mann...lo

 

[kelmo]

Goes to show how new to the forum you are. This forum (the one on the old Stratics) was always the most active of the shard forums...lots of discussion used to take place. This was back before the forum had active mods. Now the forum get buy/sell thread...pretty sad really...la

Cut me some slack, Rico. We have had some great off topic discussions here on Siege forums. I generally only have to step in when the discussions turn from facts and opinions to personal attacks.

 

[TheScoundrelRico]

Im not one to recommend pot to anyone, but oh mann...lo

Been there done that, grew up...*pats Jr on the head*...la

 

[qqqa2]

my brother doesnt smoke and all he does is play vid games all day and hes
24, there are just some lazy people out there, doesnt mean pot has anything to do with how lazy you are.

ill admit that pot is a "gateway drug" for alot of people, but certinatly not everyone, and if thats the case judge thoes people for the other drugs they are using not the harmless pot that they smoke.

 

[qqqa2]

whats really so wrong with getting giggly and eating cookies/cake? becuz thats all people really do when they get high. unlike people who drink who fight and get belligerent in public which usually ends in them driving home... but wait thats okay..... becuz its legal

 

[Emil IsTemp]

Been there done that, grew up...*pats Jr on the head*...la

Im sure you had your fun rolleyes:

but for some reason i picture you with the "I never inhaled" crowd..

 

[TheScoundrelRico]

Then you would be making a false assumption...la