Another insurance proposal

[Nexus]

but what they don't have the right to do is hijack threads, posting those opinions where they are completely irrelevant.

The topic is "Another insurance proposal" meaning the topic relates to Insurance. The Poster posted their's now those of us interested in a change of insurance are posting ours along with it. It's still on the topic of insurance....I'd say since Insurance is what's in question here that would make them highly relevant. If you want a post directly related to the initial posting well I'll give you one..

Dismiss me as stupid or whatever, but does the following have any merit?

Leave insurance just the way it is re. cost and recovery of items. However every time you die and insurance pays off, you lose some percent, say 5% of your resists and possibly 5% of your weapon's abilities. This is a stackable loss. The second time you are killed, the percentage would be 10 and so on.

Then in a central location, perhaps in Brittan there would be a special shop where you can go at any time to recoup all the total percentage loss you are carrying with a lump sum payment. This would attach a penalty to using insurance that is progressive, finally requiring the benefactor to leave the scene of battle to re-up.

While it may increase time loss to dying but it does nothing to restrict on the long term the item dependent game play that is choking the life out of fel, if nothing it highlights it.

Item Dependence is what keeps the Haves and the Have Not players from meeting on the PvP field with equal results. PvP is Player vs Player, not Suit vs Suit. It should be a measure of a players ability to use the template he built effectively through skill of play not through benefit of mods on a set of armor. Insurance is a plague to PvP regardless of what the PvP community wants to claim, it hampers proper balancing efforts because items can allow one to surpass and expect to remain beyond the standard 700-720 point skill cap. You can't balance PvP as long as a means to delegate up to 70 points in a skill to items allows players to circumvent any adjustment made. Adjustments of Resists on armor through combat damage won't fix this issue, if they armor can simply have the damage removed.

The Simplest and most assured way to bring PvP balancing back into a workable light is as has been mentioned many times before the total removal of insurance in Fel, and the negating for Bless functions on Armor and weapons on that facet. Let spell books, without bonus properties, keep "blessed" status let normal Clothing keep "Blessed" status, but artifacts, gift armor, gift weapons, and clothing with magical properties (Crimmies, Vine Cord Sandals, Robes hooded or not that have bonuses to resists for example) should loose the benefit of a Clothing Bless deed or blessed property if they came that way in Felucca. Nothing short of this will make a major impact on the harm Insurance does in Felucca on the larger scale. Look at this list of things Insurance does to Fel...

1. Hampers game play balance
2. Removes actual Risk form game play in Fel
3. Substitutes Items for actual Skill in PvP
4. Restricts Players from experimenting in PvP due to the initial cost of a "PvP Suit"
5. Reduces the market for Crafters who don't have the time to fill countless BODs Before Insurance Crafting sold because people actually lost items.
6. Restricts and almost removes the usability of any entire skill set (thief) from PvP game play.

The idea of deteriorating Resists on armor does nothing but provide a brief interlude in PvP, on the broader scale it has no impact on the issues that are harming Fel overall.

 

[Tjalle]

Do you honestly believe that the time invested (8 to 10 months) for the person to earn the Val hammer legitimately is equal to the 1 second it takes to steal it? Is that truly risk vs reward?

I don´t really see the difference between this situation taking place in a non-insurance future and this situation taking place today. If a person claims the hammer in Fel today he still can lose it to a thief unless I´m mistaken.

 

[Nexus]

I don´t really see the difference between this situation taking place in a non-insurance future and this situation taking place today. If a person claims the hammer in Fel today he still can lose it to a thief unless I´m mistaken.

Your not...I can steal in Fel Towns/GZ's just like out in the woods, much more likely to get Guard Wacked in town though...

 

[Tjalle]

crafters are worthless? thats odd...seems I made enough money to peice together a couple of uber mage suits by selling armor peices over the years.

The only way a crafter can make money is by selling uber stuff. To make uber stuff you need silly things like runics. Back when crafting really flourished people could sell gm wares and make a nice living without having to grind endlessly doing bods. They got to make people items with thier time, rather than fill/buy/sell bods in hope of getting a runic. I think its silly.

I agree.

A prodo crafter is not a crafter if he wants to make money. He´s a BOD-collector.


Now back to topic. The REAL topic...

 

[Doubleplay]

Maybe for you, but it's just fine for us. and you seem to be mistaken thinking that somehow we care if you have fun or not playing a thief...la la

To the OP.
What about making things to sort of like it was where if you died in the dungeon you can not return for maybe 5 minutes.

Again this would lessen the financial burnden on the have nots.

This is reasonable. However my original thought was that a person (either pvping or fighting peerless or fighting champs) probably has plenty of $ anyway. With buddies around there is no real loss due to dying cept the insurance cost as your buddies resurrect you right away at the scene of battle. You then start fighting again at the same resistance and power levels immediately... no loss cept $. These same people bemoan the fact that everyone is a champion fighter, pvper and etc. just due to the item properties. Well, if item properties are stunted by repeated deaths (at the scene of battle) then real skill would surface. The skilled uber fighters should not miss the lost item properties hence no complaint. But the people who need those properties to compete would eventually have to leave the scene to recoup their power. It seems to me that this would be balancing in its effect and would allow those truly skilled a chance to prove it yet still allow those who are less skilled to participate, albeit with some inconvenience.

 

[Radun]

The skilled uber fighters should not miss the lost item properties hence no complaint. But the people who need those properties to compete would eventually have to leave the scene to recoup their power. It seems to me that this would be balancing in its effect and would allow those truly skilled a chance to prove it yet still allow those who are less skilled to participate, albeit with some inconvenience.

Are you proposing that magic properties be reduced aswell? I didn't consider this before, and I changed my mind about the idea.
So if we remove 5% each death, and I have ~80 DCI, I can die 9 times before I'm below the cap... If I have ~160 LRC, I can die 8 times before I begin using Arcane charges...
This might be a good idea because then it would be: do you want to have everything at the cap, or do you want to have some things above the cap so you can stay capped a greater number of deaths.
If you make it so that it only lowers resistances, some people will still have an advantage also....and then there's the people who would just cap out everything except resistances. We wouldn't want that

 

[Doubleplay]

Are you proposing that magic properties be reduced aswell? I didn't consider this before, and I changed my mind about the idea.
So if we remove 5% each death, and I have ~80 DCI, I can die 9 times before I'm below the cap... If I have ~160 LRC, I can die 8 times before I begin using Arcane charges...
This might be a good idea because then it would be: do you want to have everything at the cap, or do you want to have some things above the cap so you can stay capped a greater number of deaths.

Exactly.... And the 5% figure could be less or more depending on what everyone would agree to before implementation (lol).

 

[Radun]

I especially like the idea because of the advantage it would give me ...
Kidding... I like it because it's an insurance idea that doesn't make all the work I've put into making nice suits irrelevant and making the suits themselves into museum exhibits.

 

[Uvtha]

you confuse ego with experience.

No, I don't confuse ego with experience. You are being cocky. You assume the only way I could disagree with you would be jealousy, that my friend is a sign of a big ego. Helping out new players doesn’t mean you don’t think a lot of yourself, I can imagine you patting yourself on the back all the while as most people who like to profess how much they give away do. But I don't care what you do or how you act in the game, maybe you're are a real prince, who knows. But you act like a self absorbed jerk on the boards, and that's what I base my comments on.

just because you think it is silly doesn’t mean it is silly.

I agree, that’s why I said "I think" rather than "It is".

runics have been around this game since AoS, whats stopping you from using them? dont tell me gold because anyone with a gold skull and a noob char can make lots of mils just by looting goodies off the DF others dont take. dont think so? I just got a buddy started in UO a two weeks ago and already he has made over 30 mil just looting others second hand loot. (heck I wasnt even there with them...I just told them what to do and how to get where they nneeded to go) so please save me the *poor me* attitude. you can do anything you put your mind to, its up to you though on breaking out of that mental cage first.

First of all, I am not talking about my self. I am fine. I'm talking about the game in general. I do use runics on occasion, but being a siege player I don’t really need to spend the time getting or buying them. You read the *poor me* attitude into my text incorrectly its not the tenor in which I meant to express myself.
Secondly yes, its possible to make a bajillion gold in however many days or whatever, but not every one will, or can do that, not that its even the point. My point is that you shouldn’t HAVE to make a ton of gold to be a crafter... IN MY OPINION. You should be CRAFTING to MAKE the gold, not the other way around IN MY OPINION. You disagree, that’s fine.

so the ten year vet is ALWAYS going to know more than the week or two old players. (btw...I remem first coming to this game and spending the first two weeks gathering regs to work magery...all anyone need do in todays game is ask at WBB for a LRC suit...so there is not as big as a gap as you say.)

I know they will. I said they will in my post. But the gap should be 80% experience, 20% possessions IN MY OPINION. As it sits now its the opposite. I started playing in October 98... I know what it was like to have to scrape, but back then, you wits were the most important element in survival and success, and enjoyment now its how much money you can collect I THINK that’s too bad, and it doesn’t have to be that way.

this has EVERYTHING to do with jealousy. you want insurance to be gone because you think it leads to egos and unfair play. think about your statement and get back to me on this. after all you are labelling me as having an ego just because I took the time to build a good suit.

No it doesn’t. No I don't. I want insurance gone because I think the game runs better without it. Egos didn’t even enter into the picture until I read your cocky posts, and that statement applies to YOU only, not to the subject at large. I'm not labeling you an egoist because you took the time to make a good suit, I'm calling you one because you suggested that if one were to disagree with you then the only explanation could be jealousy.
As for unfair play, thats not really what I'm getting at exactly. The thing I dislike most about insurance is the greed it breeds in people. The "THATS MY MY MONSTER" mentality that popped up around the time of tram, and worsened with insurance. And second to that is the fact that they have to continualy design the game for more power as people dont lose items. Pvp fairness is low down on the list for me, but I from what ive seen pvp works better with less items, not more.

And just let me be clear here, I don't play on insurance shards. Because I think insurance is a terrible idea. Not because I am poor, or lazy, or jealous, but because I think it’s bad game design, and it is straying away from what this game was built to be. A plan I still think was good at its core.

imbuing gives people another way to build uber suits. and no...it wont be a *perfect* way to phase out insurance, it just another way to bridge that gap you are crying about so those with thier egotisical suits of armor cant wtf pwn you.

I...THINK...it would be a perfect way. I hold no delusions that it will happen. And again, ill say it one more time for clarity, uber suits have NOTHING...NOT ONE THING to do with egotism.
Your attitude, and YOUR attitude alone was the only thing I was adressing, not the CONTENT of your post or the topic of gear or insurance, but the way you chose to represnet yourself, and the absurd conslusions your drew.

In closing, no one on siege has uber suits. Well not true, some people do, but they dont wtfpwn me, cause I don't pvp, and I havent been pked in like 3 years, so I don't even factor into it in any way other than discussing what I THINK is crappy game design.

There. I got back to you on it.

 

[maremmano]

there is SIEGE PERILIOUS!
create a char there and take peace!

why all these people wanna change what we just like to play and we love!?

 

[D'Amavir]

there is SIEGE PERILIOUS!
create a char there and take peace!

why all these people wanna change what we just like to play and we love!?

In my attempt to become a mod I will follow in their footsteps by posting the following both helpful and useful comment in regards to the above...

 

[Remy_of_GOR]

there is SIEGE PERILIOUS!
create a char there and take peace!

why all these people wanna change what we just like to play and we love!?

because it isnt working. numbers in the game are down. you can go into any dungeon and find it completely empty on many an occasion.

some things need to change to get this game to become large again. some of us believe that the removal of insurance, or a drastic overhaul on how it works, could change that. i know many people that would return if it was outright removed.

telling us to move to siege is not an answer(if it was we would all be there by now). i like playing more than one character, dont you?

 

[TheScoundrelRico]

i like playing more than one character, dont you?

That can be done on Siege as well. ...la

 

[Draxous]

why all these people wanna change what we just like to play and we love!?

That's the same question we asked when they introduced item insurance...

It's ruined this economy and this game. It's forced many people who loved this game to quit because they no longer to enjoy playing how they enjoyed playing. Crafters? Pfft. Monster Hunters? Pfft. Thieves? Pfft.


We want this game fixed and headed in the right direction.

The End.

 

[D'Amavir]

That's the same question we asked when they introduced item insurance...

It's ruined this economy and this game. It's forced many people who loved this game to quit because they no longer to enjoy playing how they enjoyed playing. Crafters? Pfft. Monster Hunters? Pfft. Thieves? Pfft.


We want this game fixed and headed in the right direction.

The End.

I agree competely. There is nothing wrong with trying to create discussion around things to improve the game. Not everyone will agree with everyone else, certainly. But until both sides (of whichever discussion it happens to be) can accept the other side's opinions as being valid even if they don't agree with them, there is not much we can do to promote change.

Those that have things how they want them don't want to even consider anything that will change things for them, and that is almost understandable. And those that don't have things how they want them don't want to give up on the idea that things can be improved.

Crafters have just as much right to be happy in game as pvm'ers. PVM'ers have just as much right to be happy as PVP'ers. PVP'ers have just as much right to be happy as Crafters. And so on.

 

[Surgeries]

So says the guy who thinks *nuh-uh* is an active form of logical debate.

*Wipes Coffee Off of Monitor*

 

[o2bavr6]

I have a question for you guys regarding removal of insurance.

People have posted about the game no longer being item based but to change it back to skill based.

Does this also mean that as an example Magery would be reverted back to how it was before AoS? Meaning no faster casting and faster cast recovery? Also meaning that mage spells would not able to be interupted?

 

[D'Amavir]

I have a question for you guys regarding removal of insurance.

People have posted about the game no longer being item based but to change it back to skill based.

Does this also mean that as an example Magery would be reverted back to how it was before AoS? Meaning no faster casting and faster cast recovery? Also meaning that mage spells would not able to be interupted?

Personally, I think fast casting and faster cast recovery items should be removed just like all of the HCI, SID, ROTC and OICU812 items. I think that those additions damaged the game severely and I hold onto hope that that damage can be repaired.

As for mages not being able to be interupted, I am not sure what you mean. Do you mean the change to the protection spell or something different?

 

[o2bavr6]

Well as a whole if the game is changed back to a skill based game then all items with modifieres on them of any time should be removed, stuff like FC/FCR or HLD or HCI or whatever.

SO armor would be GM made with a max defence property and Weapons would be GM made with a max damage property.

In the old days mage spells were not interuptable as they are today.

edit: old days is pre AoS.
And you didnt need to cast weaken to interupt a persons flamestrike, because it wouldnt interupt them.

 

[o2bavr6]

Also would that mean there are no more special moves like disarm and bleed.. etc?

 

[D'Amavir]

Well as a whole if the game is changed back to a skill based game then all items with modifieres on them of any time should be removed, stuff like FC/FCR or HLD or HCI or whatever.

SO armor would be GM made with a max defence property and Weapons would be GM made with a max damage property.

In the old days mage spells were not interuptable as they are today.

edit: old days is pre AoS.
And you didnt need to cast weaken to interupt a persons flamestrike, because it wouldnt interupt them.

Spells were interuptable before AoS certainly. That's not to say that they were always interuptable. But they were prior to AoS for sure. I recall many mage vs mage combat long before AoS where the mage that was better able to use the 'interupt' spells better came out on top. To me, that is what skill based is all about.

Now, will everything be balanced if all of the item properties are removed? Certainly not. But they aren't all balanced now either. Having so many properties to consider just adds to the difficulty of balancing classes/skills/special moves etc...

No one is saying that before UO's move to primarily an item reliant game that everything was perfect. At least no one that I could agree with in that regard. But I do feel that things would be much better in the long run if it could become more skill based and less item based.

 

[o2bavr6]

Spells were interuptable before AoS certainly. That's not to say that they were always interuptable. But they were prior to AoS for sure. I recall many mage vs mage combat long before AoS where the mage that was better able to use the 'interupt' spells better came out on top. To me, that is what skill based is all about.

Now, will everything be balanced if all of the item properties are removed? Certainly not. But they aren't all balanced now either. Having so many properties to consider just adds to the difficulty of balancing classes/skills/special moves etc...

No one is saying that before UO's move to primarily an item reliant game that everything was perfect. At least no one that I could agree with in that regard. But I do feel that things would be much better in the long run if it could become more skill based and less item based.

Actually when they made cahnges to have spells interuptable, if you cast the protection spell they were no longer interuptable.. i am alomost possitive on this

 

[D'Amavir]

Also would that mean there are no more special moves like disarm and bleed.. etc?

I don't really care for special moves myself. But I think they are ok as long as they are balanced and designed in a way that allowed diversity in templates and weapon choices.

A small and minor example is the Infecting move. Fencers get the nice looking Kryss as their Infecting option (one of them I mean) while Swordsmen are stuck with what...butcher knives or cleavers? How many fantasy novels had assassins running around with poisoned cleavers? Granted, they added the assassin spike (for fencing of course), which isn't bad really. But I would prefer that they added a few of the 'classic' swords to the list. At least one or two. But, that is a minor concern to say the least. The major concern is how item properties have negatively impacted the playstyle of many (not all by any means of course) and how the advent of insurance has increased those impacts.

 

[D'Amavir]

Actually when they made cahnges to have spells interuptable, if you cast the protection spell they were no longer interuptable.. i am alomost possitive on this

Yes, you are correct. I mentioned the protection spell in my initial response to you. But, without protection, spells were definitely interuptable prior to AoS.

I do get what you are asking now though, I think at least. In my opinion, the changes to protection, reactive armor and magic reflect shouldn't have been made. Not saying that those spells didn't need changing, just that the changes they made weren't the best option.

 

[o2bavr6]

Yes, you are correct. I mentioned the protection spell in my initial response to you. But, without protection, spells were definitely interuptable prior to AoS.

I do get what you are asking now though, I think at least. In my opinion, the changes to protection, reactive armor and magic reflect shouldn't have been made. Not saying that those spells didn't need changing, just that the changes they made weren't the best option.

I always liked the game being skill vs skill as far as templates go.

I truly disliked the spell disruption but only because of the difference in peoples connection speed and ping time.

Protection helped to balance this out.

I agree that the changes to MR and RA were silly and poorly executed.

I could live Fel going back to the Pre-Tra rules, as long as they were truly the pre-Tram rules and not just EA/Mythics opinion what what the rules were or should have been.

As much as I would stand to lose in armor and weapons, I could deal with it.

 

[Ailish]

If I recall correctly, a mele attack could interupt a mage, but if you had GM wrestle you were not interuptable. Not sure how that effected magery attacks. I didnt PvP before AoS very often, and on the few occasions I did I was with a mele character with 50 magery for healing and recall, but I know I had wrestling on my bard so I could cast without interuption.

Somewhere in one of these insurance threads I had stated that first item properties would have to be changed. Not necessarily removed, but changed. Making DCI a part of craftable armor in small amounts, based on the armor type, is a posibility. Removing it from weapons and making HCI more based on your weapon skill and removing it from armors. Jewels being primarily stat and skill buffers.

Smaller scale changes like that could easily make it viable.

 

[o2bavr6]

If I recall correctly, a mele attack could interupt a mage, but if you had GM wrestle you were not interuptable. Not sure how that effected magery attacks. I didnt PvP before AoS very often, and on the few occasions I did I was with a mele character with 50 magery for healing and recall, but I know I had wrestling on my bard so I could cast without interuption.

Somewhere in one of these insurance threads I had stated that first item properties would have to be changed. Not necessarily removed, but changed. Making DCI a part of craftable armor in small amounts, based on the armor type, is a posibility. Removing it from weapons and making HCI more based on your weapon skill and removing it from armors. Jewels being primarily stat and skill buffers.

Smaller scale changes like that could easily make it viable.

I definately would like to see crafting become more viable instead of the drudgery of BoD filling.

Not sure on item proerties or weapon properties, I would have to think on it and see what some of the proposals are.

Maybe if they made it to where in most cases weapons were GM made, but under certain circumstances you could craft weapons ala the old days of Might, Force, Power and Vanq with accuracy/silver but not swing speed or any of the HCI or DCI or ML or SL or any of those.

Im game to listen to opinions though.