• The chance to discover a Niter Deposit is now doubled.

[Quenchant]

Out of Niter and decide to go do some boat mining to restock.

- Suit up the miner in his luck suit (1539 with statue).
- Grab a couple 200 use sturdies and recall to my boat parked off the coast some promising mountains.
- First swing get my GGS for the day 95.3.... Sweet
- Hit the Rocks, Hit the Rocks - another skill gain 95.4
- Hit the Rocks, Hit the Rocks - another skill gain 95.5
- Hit the Rocks, Hit the Rocks - another skill gain 95.6 - still no niter deposit
- Hit the Rocks, Hit the Rocks - still no niter
Hit the Rocks, Hit the Rocks - strike a huge niter deposit - receive 27 salt peter for my efforts
- Hit the Rocks, Hit the Rocks - another skill gain 95.7 - coming along nicely
- Hit the Rocks, Hit the Rocks - break my last sturdy that is with me

So, I didn't look at the clock but I mined long enough to get 0.4 skill points past my GGS and use up 400 hits from the sturdies. All this to receive 27 salt peter?

Before the publish this same effort would have yielded about 500 or so Saltpeter from numerous niter drops. After the publish, with a supposed double chance to discover niter I get 27. Even if it was a bad time for the RNG, this number of 27 is so low compared to usual it makes me wonder if something didn't get messed up.

Anyone else seeing a lower drop rate in Niter while boat mining?

Q

 

[whiterabbit]

my changes are not any better than before. still hard to find and about 25-40 saltpeter per

 

[Banner]

Being that I refuse to pay the high price for saltpeter I get all my saltpeter from minning.. now with that being said YES I HAVE noticed the amount of niter that I mine up now has decreased. At first I just thought that maybe I was having some bad minning days... BUT now that I see i'm not the only one this is happening to WHAT THE HECK is going on here!!!!

 

[Pinco]

I think the amount that you can mine is right compared to the price

With my suit (1900 luck without statue) I can mine up to 700 saltpeter per hour...

100 shots = 3k saltpeter = 3.5 hours of mining

 

[Martyna Zmuir]

Yay! More tedium!

I give ship combat another month before people have their white dye tubs, more unstackable booze than they know what to do with and they give it up completely due to the cost. Saltpeter is over 300gp per on GL. 6 per black powder = 1,800gp. 4 black powder per heavy shot = 7,200gp. Say a ship takes 10-15 shots to scuttle = 72,000-108,000gp. (none of that includes ammo or fuses for each shot)

Sorry Pinco, but ~3.5 hours of mining for ~100 heavy shots is about 3 hours too much.

The math and the economics for cannoneering is still out of whack with the fun. ~3.5 hours of tedium for less than a quarter of that of 'fun' doesn't compute. FUN must always trump tedium in a game; Devs need to learn this quick.

 

[Banner]

I haven't scuttled a ship yet? But would like to know what the stats and rewards (gold etc) you gain from doing so? Just wondering is there anything on this?

 

[Adol]

I'm actually seeing good Niter drops; I went into the back of Despise Trammel and didn't get any at all with 0 luck, still none at 600 luck, and then with a 1050 luck suit I got Gigantic deposits on every 10th attempt or so.

 

[Pinco]

mining is fun
I mine always with the gargoyle pickaxe

 

[Basara]

I've not checked - are the mushroom cave and the ratmen cave in Ilshenar considered as "dungeons" for mining niter? You know how I like mining with garg picks in Ilshenar, but I've spent most of the time since HS was released training fishing over GM, killing pirates on someone else's ship, and event stuff.

 

[MalagAste]

I'm sorry but I miss just buying the stinking Saltpeter... all that mining is just too boring for me.... and I get more good ingots killing pirates and merchants... and off my 4 ore carts.

 

[Quenchant]

Okay.... so a new day a new try.

Still boat mining. Started in the Sea of Harmony and transitioned to the Shallow Sea (kind of all around Terra Sanctum). The comparisons from before the publish were all done in the same general area.

2 sturdies with 200 uses. Statue luck still left from yesterday @ 1539 (it ran out and dropped me to 939 the last 10 minutes)

Skill gain was slightly better today up to 96.3.

For my efforts - 2 massive niter deposits yielding 152 saltpeter. This is far better than yesterday, but is still way below what I was getting before the publish.

Before the publish, and after I got my luck up over 1500 I was hitting massive and huge niter deposits about every 8 to 10 strip the ore and move cycles. Adol mentioned every 10th cycle. If memory serves that is about what I was getting around 1000 luck.

So I'm willing to say 2 bad runs with RNG, that being said the double chance to get niter deposits doesn't seem to be working at all. So the total now is 4 sturdies, 800 hits for a salt peter yield of 179. Using luck statue as a timer, about 70 minutes of mining.

An hour or so I can refresh my luck and I'll try it again.

Q

 

[ziggy29]

I mine for saltpeter with a miner who has a luck suit taking him to 1376 luck (for an hour with the 10th Anniversary statue). If anything, I've noticed a drop in saltpeter production per hour while mining in the Abyss since Publish 69 went live.

Before it I would usually get 700-1000 per hour and occasionally 1200-1400. Since Pub 69 I've not had more than about 800 in an hour, usually 500-600 and one time out got ZERO in my usual mining spots in an hour.

And on a boat, while I get a bit more than when mining in the Abyss, it seems down too. Once I got over 1600 in an hour and usually over 1000; now I rarely get 1000 at sea either. I'm not buying this "doubled chance to find niter" claim.

 

[Victoria Navarre]

Where does it say that luck aids in the finding of niter deposits?

 

[Quenchant]

Where does it say that luck aids in the finding of niter deposits?

Saltpeter is now a mineable resource – Need High Seas Entitlement
•Can be mined in dungeons and on a boat
•Players will occasionally uncover niter deposits when mining for ore
•Frequency of discovery and size of deposits depends on mining skill and luck
•Mine the niter deposit to obtain saltpeter
•Niter deposits will decay over time if not mined

From the Publish 68.3 Notes

Q

 

[Quenchant]

Okay....another 2 - 200 use sturdy run

This time it was better than the last 2. Two Huge and Two Massive deposits for a yield of 201 salt peter. I actually looked at the clock this time and it took me 30 minutes to go through those 2 sturdies.

So, it would look like my previous statement would agree with Ziggy's. About 1000 salt peter per hour was what I was seeing before the publish. I'm now seeing half that or less.

For the grand total - 1200 hits of the various rocks which, took approximately 1.5 hours, yielded 380 salt peter.

Well below half my normal and certainly not a double chance as stated in the publish notes. Hopefully after the Holidays someone will look at the formula that was put in for the double chance and correct it.

Q

 

[Victoria Navarre]

Saltpeter is now a mineable resource – Need High Seas Entitlement
•Can be mined in dungeons and on a boat
•Players will occasionally uncover niter deposits when mining for ore
•Frequency of discovery and size of deposits depends on mining skill and luck
•Mine the niter deposit to obtain saltpeter
•Niter deposits will decay over time if not mined

From the Publish 68.3 Notes

Q

Hmmm....alright well I could read that two ways. Real life "luck" or in-game luck(luck suit).

 

[Adol]

Well I did another hour of dungeon mining in Despise (europa) yesterday; I'm still getting Gigantic deposits at 1010 luck every 10-20th spot. I've also noticed the rate of Small Blackrock has gone up considerably too, I'm getting 3-4 pieces when mining out those 20 odd spots (presumably to aid in feeding Bane Dragons now the recipe is available). Maybe I'm just real life lucky so far, but it's definitely based on in game luck for the Niter at least... taking off my luck suit for my combat one prevents me getting any at all from the same spots.

 

[Pinco]

here is an interesting question: there is higher chances to get niter deposits on felucca?

 

[zamot]

Pinco- mining in fel gives no added benefit. I have 1500+ luck with 100 mining and average about 750-1000 saltpeter an hour. I tried in tram and have had about the same results. I have not done alot of testing(mining) but hat is what I have noticed.

 

[Pinco]

well, if there was a bonus fel would be invaded by miners

 

[JC the Builder]

I think this is an issue of design. Saltpeter is meant to be used in mass quantities, thousands and thousands. Having a system where you can randomly find saltpeter deposits and get a couple dozen is obviously completely insufficient. They put it in the same category as Valorite Ore when it is used as much as Iron Ore.

 

[Martyna Zmuir]

The Devs don't play UO, JC. They don't know any better and don't listen to us when we try to explain.

 

[phantus]

The Devs don't play UO, JC. They don't know any better and don't listen to us when we try to explain.

This...

 

[Skrag]

The math and the economics for cannoneering is still out of whack with the fun. ~3.5 hours of tedium for less than a quarter of that of 'fun' doesn't compute. FUN must always trump tedium in a game; Devs need to learn this quick.

I've communicated with Cal about this a few times over the last couple months. I've gotten back some very upbeat chatter about how they plan to "evolve" the system, but no indication that they're even particularly aware of the massive crippling economic flaws that have essentially destroyed it.

Even at a nice non-Luna vendor mall I sometimes shop on Atlantic, they want 350k for 10 powder charges alone. All told we're talking an outlay in the MILLIONS to equip a ship for combat and then earn 10k for killing a pirate.

Of course it has to be a non-Luna vendor since, as of this particular moment, that site we're not supposed to mention is listing exactly ZERO powder charges or ammunition of any type for sale in Atlantic Luna.

I know some chucklehead is going to come tell me how he and his whole guild love ship combat and do nothing else all the time, but from all external indications this looks like a system that has already died of it's economic woes.

 

[cdavbar]

So people are whining something takes effort in this game? I make all my cannon supplies, and take out ten to fifteen ships a day. Is it always fun making my blackpowder or charges, no, but the reward I GET compared to the rewards others that dont want to do the work get are well worth it.


If you want the rewards, buy em or do the work. Bout time something wasnt jsut two clicks and instant reward. And the drop rates on the white tubs are reeled in much better than the corgul book and sash drops, seriously devs what were you thinking?

Anyways thats my 2cents, get some luck, get some skill, and a pickaxe and get to work.

 

[Skrag]

Maybe if there were a reason. But for a 10k reward or maybe a white dye tub that's irrelevant as soon as some Luna vendor locks one down for the public? They can cram it.

 

[Martyna Zmuir]

You forgot that you can get a useless light flame cannon ball (since that’s the ONLY type that is EVER given as a reward... and honestly, who uses light canons anyway?) or an orc ship part (nearly useless once you have your fill of them) – this is of course, assuming that you get a reward.

My friends stopped bringing in the pirates; it just wasn’t worth it to sail to and from the sea market multiple times. Massive waste of time. Going after merchant ships is far more profitable.

We spent six hours doing this last weekend to go after the new loot. We saw one other ship that entire time. ONE. If the system if going to evolve, it had better do so quickly.

But this thread is about mining saltpeper. If you can only get a few hundred now this way it pushes the economics farther into the toilet.

 

[G.v.P]

Said it before, will say it again, dungeon mining is better than ship mining. Use a luck sculpture, head to a place like shame, and try to find an area with a flat surface and tiles around you. I get an average of about 200 saltpeter per a rock, which is enough to get me 8 charges per rock. Can get at least two rocks within a half hour, which gives me enough charges to solo a pirate with 4-5 charges to spare. Plus I get about 70% of my materials back when I loot the pirate hold.

Oh also, light cannonballs are great if you use them right. If you have a good pilot you can take down a ship using only your front cannon, heh. I use light cannon on front cannon to chase other ships down.

 

[Nyses]

If it is Luck and mining skill that determine Niter deposits, don't forget your +5 mining gloves. I imbued mine, so they are a permanent part of my suit.

Last week, I finally tested out the dungeon mining for Niter. All I did was hit the luck statue (600 luck total) and had 105 mining. I burned thru 3 Garg picks and got about 400 saltpeter in total. Not sure about the time, I also pulled about 6 Ore ells and killed em, that kept me awake, lol.

 

[Skrag]

Powder charges are back on sale in Atlantic Luna. On one whole vendor. For a million gold per 25. What a deal. I can taste that sweet 10k reward already.

This is clearly an economically healthy system and not a disastrous flop. Everyone who stuck up for it in the threads of a few months ago should totally not be ashamed of themselves.

Devs, carefully evolve this system. Drastic action is plainly not required in the least.

 

[phantus]

Powder charges are back on sale in Atlantic Luna. On one whole vendor. For a million gold per 25. What a deal. I can taste that sweet 10k reward already.

This is clearly an economically healthy system and not a disastrous flop. Everyone who stuck up for it in the threads of a few months ago should totally not be ashamed of themselves.

Devs, carefully evolve this system. Drastic action is plainly not required in the least.

I can't help but to point out that you forgot to add:

"working as intended"

Now all we need is for Mark to post that he looked at the code and disagrees with us only to leave the thread and never come back.

 

[Petra Fyde]

Yesterday I finally got around to making my miner a luck suit - fishing, Stratics Santa, bane chosen have all kept me from the task. So I set off with low expectations for Despise. Picked my spot, hopped off the fire beetle and swung the pick - 213 niter.
Pity my luck didn't hold, that's all I got, but finding it with the first swing made me smile.

 

[Babble]

I can't help but to point out that you forgot to add:

"working as intended"

Now all we need is for Mark to post that he looked at the code and disagrees with us only to leave the thread and never come back.

It is a good goldsink if no one mines and all buy

 

[phantus]

I can't help but to point out that you forgot to add:

"working as intended"

Now all we need is for Mark to post that he looked at the code and disagrees with us only to leave the thread and never come back.

It is a good goldsink if no one mines and all buy

A good goldsink would be one that had no other method of acquisition. The saltpeter is an ok goldsink I guess. It just makes the system in place less attractive to a large group of people. I didn't pay for a booster to create a goldsink however. I did it to have fun.

 

[Quenchant]

Yesterday I finally got around to making my miner a luck suit - fishing, Stratics Santa, bane chosen have all kept me from the task. So I set off with low expectations for Despise. Picked my spot, hopped off the fire beetle and swung the pick - 213 niter.
Pity my luck didn't hold, that's all I got, but finding it with the first swing made me smile.

Petra,

I assume the 213 salt peter was an hour of mining since you mention your luck running out? If it was that sounds low to what I was getting before publish and about what I'm getting now. Still, no one is reporting seeing the double chance we are supposed to be getting after publish.

Just to kind of test to see if it was based on mining skill, I took out one of my GM miners in the same luck suit. The results were about the same as my guy who has 97 mining. The result being about 200, or so, salt peter per hour. The GM miner account is a bit older, so my luck was increased from the usual 1539 to 1589.

I didn't try the mining gloves as I have to imbue a pair with luck and LRC. I think next I'll try my tamers luck suit which if memory serves is about 2200 luck and see if that produces any difference.

From my experiences and other posts, I would still say the salt peter got borked by the publish.
- Some folks say their production is about the same as before the publish
- Most folks are saying that they have seen a drop in the amount of Salt Peter production for the amount of time they have spent
- No one has reported seeing double niter drops. That we are supposed to be seeing after the last publish.

Q

 

[NuSair]

I am still getting well over 1k an hour mining salt peter and haven't seen any drop.

 

[Gowron]

All I have to say is that if you're not having fun, you are doing it wrong.

 

[Skrag]

I can't help but to point out that you forgot to add:

"working as intended"

Now all we need is for Mark to post that he looked at the code and disagrees with us only to leave the thread and never come back.

Yeah, then maybe Supreem can come tell us "Don't like it, don't play it!" for good measure. lol

It is a good goldsink if no one mines and all buy

...is it still available on NPC vendors?

 

[NuSair]

...is it still available on NPC vendors?

Yes, 406 per on Atlantic atm.

 

[Petra Fyde]

It should be born in mind that the quote you are so happily twisting to suit your own purpose actually only referred to the special Halloween shard, Shard of the Dead, and not the game as a whole.

 

[Skrag]

Yes, that's true, and does merit being pointed out. I'd be more sympathetic, though, if the shard hadn't ended up being yanked early because everyone heeded his advice and no one played it. They could have at least tried taking out the glass swords completely.

 

[Pinco]

however, a saltpeter elemental (that spawn with the gargoyle pickaxe) with 100 saltpeter as loot would be great!

"Uh oh! That doesn't look like a saltpeter deposit!"

 

[G.v.P]

however, a saltpeter elemental (that spawn with the gargoyle pickaxe) with 100 saltpeter as loot would be great!

"Uh oh! That doesn't look like a saltpeter deposit!"

lol I like that idea ... maybe a white earth ele? but 250 saltpeter maybe ...

i moved macing to my crafter, now i'm an ele slaying machine ... watch out, shame

 

[Pinco]

saltpeter elemental special abilities:
If hit by fire damage will explode causing an area damage for 5 tiles

 

[Beastmaster]

I haven't noticed a change.

 

[UO-OU]

I'm curious why the Devs got rid of all the alchemists (excluding the sea port) that sold saltpeter? Wasn't the system good before this niter change buying it for 8 gold and working up the spawn from there? Considering the new changes to finding saltpeter, it's like reverting back when High Seas was released - sources to find saltpeter limited, while it was integral piece for the expansion.

As for mining niter, I haven't found any mining for 30 mins with 700 luck. I would think its easy to find niter since they stated finding it would be doubled. I guess not. One thing I did notice that I got more blackrock (which is fine), but give us a use for it. Making blackrock stew isn't really the best use for a resource that's plentiful.

How bout this: Why not make the blackrock we mine up and grind it up it into ... 3-5 black powder? This by passes the saltpeter issue since most of is used to be converted into black powder.

What do you guys think?

 

[Skrag]

The whole crafting system is needlessly overcomplex. Blacksmiths don't make blades and hilts and then combine them. It's one resource and one click. But for some reason we need like 8 different things to make a match.

 

[G.v.P]

As for mining niter, I haven't found any mining for 30 mins with 700 luck.

I'm thinking you need at least 1,000 luck for a decent chance. Did they post anywhere with a raw number of how luck / mining skill effects niter spawn? Hm.

What I was thinking was just stock pile the chaga mushrooms, craft plain GM leather armor, then imbue 100 luck onto the leather. Then enhace w/ spined. Very high failure rate, though, lol. But once you finish, that's 840 luck ... plus at least 200 from a luck sculpture (not counting jewels, or arties you might have, etc.).

Why not make the blackrock we mine up and grind it up it into ... 3-5 black powder? This by passes the saltpeter issue since most of is used to be converted into black powder.

Maybe the conversion ratio is at fault. Like for example, one wood equals one charcoal, yet you burn a hella lot of saltpeter to get black powder, especially if you don't have a 30% alchy tally. What if one saltpeter gave one black powder?

 

[UO-OU]

What if one saltpeter gave one black powder?

That would be a start.

 

[Quenchant]

Just as an up date and some of the information might pertain to the luck questions above.

I have been mining at least a half hour a day since I started the thread. The average salt peter is about 400 per hour, still below the average I was seeing before the publish (800 - 1000 . hour). On Sunday, there was a really good run of niter. I was hitting a massive or huge deposit almost every other vein of ore. I mined a full hour for that and got 875 salt peter. The best run since the publish and the only time it has happened.

This is still with the same main miner(s). One is at GM and the other is now GM but started at 95 mining at the start of the thread. Again the luck suit is at 1539/1589 for these guys. (Mid 60's 100% LRC suit).

In the mean time I worked up another char as I had fishing and mining on stones on another account and made him an archer. I also did some shopping and got the pieces for another luck suit. The resists suck on this but it was about luck. The suit itself is 1811 luck. The statue brings the new char to 2381 luck (my youngest account).

So, when I took the new char out last night, in the new luck suit. I didn't notice any more drops of niter. What I did notice was that I was getting more salt peter from the niter deposits. In the half hour of mining I got 3 massive niter drops. The payed out 102, 107 and 98 salt peter. This is some of the highest numbers I have seen from the massive deposits.

The other thing I learned is when mining the niter you can get 0-4 salt peter from every hit. Unless your GM, you won't see 4 salt peter from a mining strike.

- I still don't think the niter deposits have doubled since the publish.

- No one has reported double drops. Everyone has said it is the same or has dropped.

- High luck will help with the amount of resources received when mining the niter, but doesn't help in the number of niter drops.

- I'll do some more testing with lower luck and see if luck is an actual requirement for receiving niter drops.
-- I had always assumed that lower luck meant the same number of drops, just that you would only get large or small deposits.

- I also agree it would be nice to have another use for black rock.

More to come as I have time,
Q