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cazador

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Why do you need something to fight for? Shouldn't you PvP because you like to PvP? I've never seen the logic behind people who go around claiming they only play UO to PvP, want PvP more skill based, yet have an issue with a change that will helkeep Unskilled people out of the PvP arena. Risk vs Reward is thrown about as a reasoning, but where is the Risk on the side of the skilled PvPer when they are beating down trammies trying to run a spawn? Risk vs Reward can not only apply one way, nor should it.
Why do you all need new content added?

Last I checked you have Trammel, Ilsh, Malas, Eodon, Ter Mur. And 90% of it is completely vacant. Seems odd that everyone here who loves Tram so much complains for new stuff almost incessantly but complains when we want to keep one thing Fel only. I don't see any lumberjacks having a rough time getting double resources. Probably because they are mostly afk in Tram ruining the economy more and and more. Must be the pvpers doing that.


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CovenantX

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Why do you need something to fight for? Shouldn't you PvP because you like to PvP? I've never seen the logic behind people who go around claiming they only play UO to PvP, want PvP more skill based, yet have an issue with a change that will helkeep Unskilled people out of the PvP arena. Risk vs Reward is thrown about as a reasoning, but where is the Risk on the side of the skilled PvPer when they are beating down trammies trying to run a spawn? Risk vs Reward can not only apply one way, nor should it.
Pvp without anything to fight for gets boring.
It's essentially pvming against something that has no loot. it's boring.

So, Pvpers need something to fight for, in the same way non-pvpers need game content... To keep their interest in the game.

The people who play UO to pvp, means Pvp is what they enjoy most about UO... they want it 'skill based" so that it's worth practicing and actually being "good" as opposed to rolling the dice and see who wins.

The only issue keeping Unskilled pvpers out of the pvp arena, is that these "Unskilled pvpers" aren't willing to learn how to pvp.... Do you think, everyone that's a "skilled pvpers" was born as one?

Risk vs Reward doesn't exist anywhere in UO aside from Fel... that risk would be, you have a chance to lose what you're trying to get to someone else who is also interested in whatever the reward may be. powerscrolls in this case, it should be much more than that IMO

I agree with this part... I'm also glad someone aside from one of the "pvper's" brought it up. (no, I don't know if you're a pvper or not, but you're siding with the people who generally are against anything pvp-related)

Risk vs Reward can not only apply one way, nor should it.
It is currently only applied one f***ing way.... it has been pretty much since trammel came out, with very few exceptions... but It's interesting that this whole argument is based completely around one of the very very few things that is exclusive to Felucca though, isn't it? nah, not at all.
 

MalagAste

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There is more "Risk" involved in doing spawns in Illsh IMO... in Fel you don't get Paragons... If they added push through to Illsh spawns it'd be 100x more risky to do them in Illsh...

As so many others have pointed out there is no thrill of PvP for a non-pvper to get insta trashed by a Fel Red... in the .4 seconds it takes them to kill someone who's already 2/3 dead to the spawn... that isn't a risk at all for the PvPers... and more often than not it's not even a reward.... a bit of insurance money.... some garbage pinks... etc...

Most of the time yes no one is in Fel and yes I could do champs there if I wanted to... but for the 1 or 2 times you go that's fine... but to get that 20 tamer... level 3 mastery ..... whatever it takes 20 to 100 spawns and more... and those odds are slim to none of not getting raided most the time..... and once they think you are doing them..... you won't be able to do them again for 6 to 8 months... because the vultures will be circling like the buzzards they are... looking for easy prey..

And I agree with others..... if PvP were really what they wanted... they would be on Siege or Mugen getting all the PvP all the time everywhere... but that's really not what they want.... what they want is sheep for the slaughter.... easy sheep for the picking... That's why they choose to stick around hidden at spawns waiting till the person is an easy target and can't really put up a fight.

Sorry but that's how I feel and I am NOT alone. I'm just more vocal than most the rest.
 

Nexus

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Pvp without anything to fight for gets boring.
It's essentially pvming against something that has no loot. it's boring.
That I can accept, but we hear many PvPers call PvMers care-bears, trammies, etc. because they prefer fighting something that has loot while risking little. You see if you're raiding a spawn and you wind up dying, you're not risking dropping anything of value, so does that make the PvPers doing the raids Care-Bear Cousins? You know, a bit wilder, but the same when you really get down to it.
So, Pvpers need something to fight for, in the same way non-pvpers need game content... To keep their interest in the game.

The people who play UO to pvp, means Pvp is what they enjoy most about UO... they want it 'skill based" so that it's worth practicing and actually being "good" as opposed to rolling the dice and see who wins.

The only issue keeping Unskilled pvpers out of the pvp arena, is that these "Unskilled pvpers" aren't willing to learn how to pvp.... Do you think, everyone that's a "skilled pvpers" was born as one?
Nope, don't think they are born that way, but all things considered, if so many PvPers enjoy preying on people who have no interest in PvP for enjoyment, to the point they will defend the proverbal carrot on a stick approach for easy pickings, it speaks to a measure of sadism, slight though it may be as this is a game, that not everyone is born with either.
Risk vs Reward doesn't exist anywhere in UO aside from Fel... that risk would be, you have a chance to lose what you're trying to get to someone else who is also interested in whatever the reward may be. powerscrolls in this case, it should be much more than that IMO
I'd say it doesn't exist there either. No longer is Red a risk, you have full access to all the cities. Forged Pardon's, and the removal of perma-red have eliminated exclusion from other facets as well at this point.
I agree with this part... I'm also glad someone aside from one of the "pvper's" brought it up. (no, I don't know if you're a pvper or not, but you're siding with the people who generally are against anything pvp-related)
I've engaged in PvP, not that I particularly enjoy it myself, I've defended spawns from raids, successfully and sometimes not so successfully, and while many wouldn't consider it PvP, sneaking a thief down to steal scroll is a one player (the Thief) pitted against another players defenses and provides it's own challenges. That's not to say I don't enjoy PvP in some other games I've played. SW:TOR's PvP mini-games are quite enjoyable as they reward both sides, though the victors are rewarded more, but that is an entirely different concept.
It is currently only applied one f***ing way.... it has been pretty much since trammel came out, with very few exceptions... but It's interesting that this whole argument is based completely around one of the very very few things that is exclusive to Felucca though, isn't it? nah, not at all.
It's really not exclusive to Felucca anymore, with Scroll binders it's time consuming but there are alternatives to acquiring scrolls yourself. The only factor in this that is exclusive to Felucca is PvPers wanting a baited pit for the under/unequipped (either skill or equipment wise) and/or unprepared.
 

cazador

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Edited: pictures can hurt feeling irl...maybe even constitute as trolling per Stratics ROC.. I truly apologize




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Outlaw Torn

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Mesanna is right. Shard bound power scrolls will fix the UO economy by feeding a mass exodus leaving only the hardcore no life players left to play.
 

Great DC

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LOLOL. its just power scrolls. I don't even consider this a major change, its very minor in todays content. Get a grip people.
 

Nexus

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LOLOL. its just power scrolls. I don't even consider this a major change, its very minor in todays content. Get a grip people.
When every tamer starts needing them for multiple pets, they won't be so minor a part of the content at least not for a very long while.
 

Great DC

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When every tamer starts needing them for multiple pets, they won't be so minor a part of the content at least not for a very long while.
If you don't already have a stockpile of scrolls, your doing it all wrong. I have hundreds of scrolls on many shards, and I don't have shard shields. I solo spawns whenever I need any scrolls and that includes atlantic shard.
 

Lord Frodo

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There's a 0% chance. It's just a complain fest, always is. Too much lag, not enough people, 55 accounts to gear up, can't do anything because archers miss 99.9% of the time. It doesn't ever change here. The same 3-4 people complain about LITERALLY everything.


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Sure beats listening to someone that THINKS he knows everything about everything UO related, doesn't it, especially from someone that wasn't there. You must have bought aged accountsw.
 

Lord Frodo

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Why do you need something to fight for? Shouldn't you PvP because you like to PvP? I've never seen the logic behind people who go around claiming they only play UO to PvP, want PvP more skill based, yet have an issue with a change that will helkeep Unskilled people out of the PvP arena. Risk vs Reward is thrown about as a reasoning, but where is the Risk on the side of the skilled PvPer when they are beating down trammies trying to run a spawn? Risk vs Reward can not only apply one way, nor should it.
They need a reward or they will cry, it isn't enough to PvP for the sake of PvP like it was in the old days when real PvP accrued and not this Equipment V Equipment like we see now.
 

Lord Frodo

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That I can accept, but we hear many PvPers call PvMers care-bears, trammies, etc. because they prefer fighting something that has loot while risking little. You see if you're raiding a spawn and you wind up dying, you're not risking dropping anything of value, so does that make the PvPers doing the raids Care-Bear Cousins? You know, a bit wilder, but the same when you really get down to it.

Nope, don't think they are born that way, but all things considered, if so many PvPers enjoy preying on people who have no interest in PvP for enjoyment, to the point they will defend the proverbal carrot on a stick approach for easy pickings, it speaks to a measure of sadism, slight though it may be as this is a game, that not everyone is born with either.

I'd say it doesn't exist there either. No longer is Red a risk, you have full access to all the cities, and Forged Pardon's, and the removal of perma-red have eliminated exclusion from other facets as well at this point.

I've engaged in PvP, not that I particularly enjoy it myself, I've defended spawns from raids, successfully and sometimes not so successfully, and while many wouldn't consider it PvP, sneaking a thief down to steal scroll is a one player (the Thief) pitted against another players defenses and provides it's own challenges. That's not to say I don't enjoy PvP in some other games I've played. SW:TOR's PvP mini-games are quite enjoyable as they reward both sides, though the victors are rewarded more, but that is an entirely different concept.

It's really not exclusive to Felucca anymore, with Scroll binders it's time consuming but there are alternatives to acquiring scrolls yourself. The only factor in this that is exclusive to Felucca is PvPers wanting a baited pit for the under/unequipped (either skill or equipment wise) and/or unprepared.
The PvPers come in and kill the PvMers after doing all the work, boy that is a real risk fighting someone geared up to PvM.
 

CovenantX

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That I can accept, but we hear many PvPers call PvMers care-bears, trammies, etc. because they prefer fighting something that has loot while risking little. You see if you're raiding a spawn and you wind up dying, you're not risking dropping anything of value, so does that make the PvPers doing the raids Care-Bear Cousins? You know, a bit wilder, but the same when you really get down to it.
The disagreement I have here, is that we enjoy killing people that can't pvp... I could see it if it were new, but most of us don't want that.. we want to fight experienced pvpers for some type of reward other than bragging rights.



Nope, don't think they are born that way, but all things considered, if so many PvPers enjoy preying on people who have no interest in PvP for enjoyment, to the point they will defend the proverbal carrot on a stick approach for easy pickings, it speaks to a measure of sadism, slight though it may be as this is a game, that not everyone is born with either.
The whole "Carrot on a Stick" argument isn't going to work, because people will just resort to calling out everything that is only obtainable from trammel or tram-ruleset areas vs what is from fel.

I mean, if you had the options to get Powerscrolls from Despise in trammel, same as you do in Despise fel.. would you ever do the fel spawn?

I've engaged in PvP, not that I particularly enjoy it myself, I've defended spawns from raids, successfully and sometimes not so successfully, and while many wouldn't consider it PvP, sneaking a thief down to steal scroll is a one player (the Thief) pitted against another players defenses and provides it's own challenges. That's not to say I don't enjoy PvP in some other games I've played. SW:TOR's PvP mini-games are quite enjoyable as they reward both sides, though the victors are rewarded more, but that is an entirely different concept.
I don't consider the thief part "pvp" but it used to be an important part of the game, now, not so much... it would be great if there was something close to that for thieves again... but, when 95% of the games content is in areas where thieves can't steal from other players it's just not going to happen.


It's really not exclusive to Felucca anymore, with Scroll binders it's time consuming but there are alternatives to acquiring scrolls yourself. The only factor in this that is exclusive to Felucca is PvPers wanting a baited pit for the under/unequipped (either skill or equipment wise) and/or unprepared.
Hehe, you must be talking about the only powerscrolls that don't only come from fel, they would be: Blacksmithing, Tailoring, Imbuing, & Fishing....every other Powerscroll 105-120 are from fel-only. How do scroll-binders make them not exclusive to Felucca? Someone's getting them from Fel... Binders just speed the process up of getting to 120, adding value to 105s-115s...



Maybe someday, the devs will come out with some more "Set items", in which you obtain half of the set drops in Trammel and the other half drops in Felucca... I wonder which side would be the first to start crying about it? (I already know the answer to this, as I'm sure everyone else does as well)
 

elster

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There is more "Risk" involved in doing spawns in Illsh IMO... in Fel you don't get Paragons... If they added push through to Illsh spawns it'd be 100x more risky to do them in Illsh...

As so many others have pointed out there is no thrill of PvP for a non-pvper to get insta trashed by a Fel Red... in the .4 seconds it takes them to kill someone who's already 2/3 dead to the spawn... that isn't a risk at all for the PvPers... and more often than not it's not even a reward.... a bit of insurance money.... some garbage pinks... etc...

Most of the time yes no one is in Fel and yes I could do champs there if I wanted to... but for the 1 or 2 times you go that's fine... but to get that 20 tamer... level 3 mastery ..... whatever it takes 20 to 100 spawns and more... and those odds are slim to none of not getting raided most the time..... and once they think you are doing them..... you won't be able to do them again for 6 to 8 months... because the vultures will be circling like the buzzards they are... looking for easy prey..

And I agree with others..... if PvP were really what they wanted... they would be on Siege or Mugen getting all the PvP all the time everywhere... but that's really not what they want.... what they want is sheep for the slaughter.... easy sheep for the picking... That's why they choose to stick around hidden at spawns waiting till the person is an easy target and can't really put up a fight.

Sorry but that's how I feel and I am NOT alone. I'm just more vocal than most the rest.
Those are some giant generalizations.
 

OREOGL

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Those are some giant generalizations.
Yeah most of those are the same fallacies threats been spewed on Stratics for years in an attempt to rationalize their opinion.

I was going to respond to it but frankly I'm tired of having the same argument over and over after this many years.

It's simple, power scrolls are a Fel based system. If you do not like doing said system, there are alternative means around it.
 

cazador

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Yeah most of those are the same fallacies threats been spewed on Stratics for years in an attempt to rationalize their opinion.

I was going to respond to it but frankly I'm tired of having the same argument over and over after this many years.

It's simple, power scrolls are a Fel based system. If you do not like doing said system, there are alternative means around it.
Edited: edited out not to hurt any of the implied mentions posters who often get their bums hurt emotionally via my responses. Will not happen in the future without swift and prompt apologies ahead of time..that is all


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OREOGL

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These people are the epitome of gimmie gimmie gimmie, then when they don't like your said idea or wants it's a simple NO fk you I'll quit! It's always been funny to me.


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I don't think they're all that way.

It's just a poor rationalization to request power scrolls in tram and then cite PVP/PVPers as the issue.
 

elster

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A group of trammies should be able to farm scrolls in fel and fend off reds if they field off choke points and are organized. Non-trammies are at just as much of a risk doing a spawn in fel to get scrolls as trammies are. It's supposed to be challenging with a risk vs reward element to it and promote group play (this is an online game after all). They need to stop complaining and learn the game and play it correctly. I'm assuming most won't even attempt it and will just complain, or feel that they should be able to solo farm endless power scrolls with no resistance/challenge whatsoever.
 

cazador

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What kind of mental gymnastics are you doing to convince yourself this?
"Certain people" not to be too specific, that don't understand how to actually PvM and spend their whole UO experience PvMing for the most part don't understand exactly how easy 99.9% of the game is to solo. So they"no one specific" still think Ilsh paragons (or other MOBs) are difficult and difficult 2002 AI is what's fun and or exciting even risky as this poster(no names) has said.


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OREOGL

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I am (kind of) OK with making PS's shard bound. BUT, ONLY if they make EM drops shard bound as well at the same time!!!!!!
Don't encourage them, they did not put any other thought into the idea other than powerscrolls will be priced lower in lower populated shards.
 

Great DC

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All backpack drops should be shard bound, including slithers, cameos, replicas, power scrolls you name it. Only looted stuff should be transferable. Get rid of the 3rd party sites that dupe xfer and sell items non stop. That's only if your serious about making the game better overall.
 

Maximus Neximus

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Please, no shard bound power scrolls. While this wouldn't really affect me since I have shard shields, it would hurt many others.
 

Nexus

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Please, no shard bound power scrolls. While this wouldn't really affect me since I have shard shields, it would hurt many others.
How so?

The only thing it would change is people won't be exporting them to Atlantic from lower pop shards to get high prices... they'll have to sell them on the lower pop shards for what ever price the shard is willing to pay based on demand.
 

OREOGL

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How so?

The only thing it would change is people won't be exporting them to Atlantic from lower pop shards to get high prices... they'll have to sell them on the lower pop shards for what ever price the shard is willing to pay based on demand.

The problem is, it's an excerise in futility.

You can also punch yourself in the goods "just cuz" but it sure isn't going to feel good or get you anywhere.
 

cobb

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LOLOL. its just power scrolls. I don't even consider this a major change, its very minor in todays content. Get a grip people.
Pretty much. I would assume most people already have the power scrolls that they need. Maybe if this happened earlier, it would be a big deal.
 

Keith of Sonoma

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LOLOL. its just power scrolls. I don't even consider this a major change, its very minor in todays content. Get a grip people.
With the taming change coming, and the fact that pet will be able to "eat power scrolls" to raise skills to 120, it might be bigger than you think. :)
 

Keith of Sonoma

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Pretty much. I would assume most people already have the power scrolls that they need. Maybe if this happened earlier, it would be a big deal.
With the taming change coming, and the fact that pet will be able to "eat power scrolls" to raise skills to 120, it might be bigger than you think. :)
 

kelmo

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The problem here is that one shard dominates the game. The problem here is fifteen year vets dominate the game. The causal player that is content with playing one shard and one community is being pushed away in favor of the "global economy".
 

Lord Nabin

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If you don't already have a stockpile of scrolls, your doing it all wrong. I have hundreds of scrolls on many shards, and I don't have shard shields. I solo spawns whenever I need any scrolls and that includes atlantic shard.
Uhm....

Can I have your stuff....
 

Nexus

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The problem here is that one shard dominates the game. The problem here is fifteen year vets dominate the game. The causal player that is content with playing one shard and one community is being pushed away in favor of the "global economy".
You're right that is a big problem... Shard Binding some items that casual and potentially any new player who shows up on the scene will want is part of a cure for that.
 

OREOGL

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The problem here is that one shard dominates the game. The problem here is fifteen year vets dominate the game. The causal player that is content with playing one shard and one community is being pushed away in favor of the "global economy".

Making power scrolls shard bound certainly isn't beneficial without making a multitude of other steps.

This is wishful thinking at best.
 

kelmo

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I am wishing for more... Shut down shard transfer.
 

Lord Nabin

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The problem here is that one shard dominates the game. The problem here is fifteen year vets dominate the game. The causal player that is content with playing one shard and one community is being pushed away in favor of the "global economy".
Every civilization has had hubs of commerce where goods and services flowed in and out of. Trade has always been a solid part of civilization. I think a casual player networking with a community can do just fine. Even if all they want to do is engage in just the local community.

Between the community and a few forum boards you can get just about anything you need on a shard.

The key is the a player needs to engage in community.
 

cazador

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The problem here is that one shard dominates the game. The problem here is fifteen year vets dominate the game. The causal player that is content with playing one shard and one community is being pushed away in favor of the "global economy".
It's quite the opposite. Maybe if they were taking shard bound items and making them transferable that would be the case. This promotes an economy on each and every shard, not just Atlantic. Like it currently is. What exactly do you mean? Maybe I read it wrong.


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Lord Nabin

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I am wishing for more... Shut down shard transfer.
You still need transfers for other reasons in life.

Take for instance you have someone picking on your kid who is playing or one player harassing another. The ability to leave that behind and find a community that you gel with better is pretty important without having to start over.
 

OREOGL

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You still need transfers for other reasons in life.

Take for instance you have someone picking on your kid who is playing or one player harassing another. The ability to leave that behind and find a community that you gel with better is pretty important without having to start over.
This is an incredibly specific example and I Would hardly base the necessity of transfer tokens on it.

Really, it would be beneficial to stop all transfer and all each shard to regulate its own economy.
 

kelmo

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There is a reason the shards were separate... Binding the shards back together is evil magic.

*winks*
 

OREOGL

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There is a reason the shards were separate... Binding the shards back together is evil magic.

*winks*
Here I thought Mondain had slippery fingers and dropped the gem.

I should probably go find the intro video again...
 

skett

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I am wishing for more... Shut down shard transfer.
At first I was going to say I don't agree because at this point it's to late
After thinking about it this would have a huge impact at first but it could help the lower population shards
Maybe they shouldn't have ever put shard transfers in to begain with.
Atlantic wouldn't be what is today and other shards mite have been better off ? Who knows?

I'm far from a uo economy expert just trying to think this through is all

Maybe don't allow ps to be turned in for points so more get sold on all shards ?

Something needs to be done either way you look at it....
 

Lord Nabin

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This is an incredibly specific example and I Would hardly base the necessity of transfer tokens on it.

Really, it would be beneficial to stop all transfer and all each shard to regulate its own economy.
It's an incredibly valid example. Just one among many others friend that are not economy related.

Making Power Scrolls shard bound is an incredibly specific change. You seem to be fine with incredibly specific reasoning.
 

OREOGL

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It's an incredibly valid example. Just one among many others friend that are not economy related.

Making Power Scrolls shard bound is an incredibly specific change. You seem to be fine with incredibly specific reasoning.
You don't make changes based minor validations. By all means, I'm open to hearing more, but based on that, it's not reasonable.

However, on the contrary, I'm not in favor of making power scrolls shard bound.
 

kelmo

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Stratics Legend
UNLEASHED
Dread Lord
I have often said I do not have a dog in this race. My home shard stands alone. I will admit there is some shard trading but it is usually gold... at 15 to 1.

That alone should speak volumes.
 

Riyana

Operations
Administrator
Professional
Governor
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
Event Coordinator
UNLEASHED
Campaign Patron
They need to take a cold, hard look at how intershard trade has affected both low and high population shards, and exactly what is driving the problems they think they are addressing here. Like the Eodon stealables, this alone makes no sense. Scrolls are a tiny part of a much larger issue.

I've had to go to Atlantic to buy stuff before... then got back to Chesapeake to find I'd bought it from a Chesapeake player who'd moved it to Atlantic to sell. That's just absurd. There is no non-Siege shard other than Atlantic and maybe Great Lakes that has anything resembling an economy anymore--everything is funneled through Atlantic, and not everyone can access trade equally. You shouldn't have to have a 14 year old account and shard shields--or a friend who does for that matter--to be able to purchase things you need to play.

At this point, selectively shard binding certain items isn't going to solve anything. The horse is out of the barn, out of the yard, down the road, and sipping a beer three cities over. It's way too little way too late. At this point I think the best they could do would be to create a small trade hub--NOT a current shard--that anyone can freely travel to and from. Eodon would have been perfect for it. Still would. One Eodon per all non-Siege ruleset shards, and put a little city in it somewhere. Make travel there free and make travel back cost somehow based on the value of the items you're trying to carry, with a bankbox there in case you buy more than you have gold to return with. (Make it a gold sink without making it unusable to new/returning players.) Make it worthwhile and practical to sell low-level necessities. Turn shard shields decorative and give the picks back to every account that has them.

I just can't see this piecemeal stuff with shard binding being anything but a waste of time and effort. The problems are much deeper, and it's going to take bold action to make any meaningful, positive impact. Take the new currency system and the vendor search--those were both major upgrades that successfully impacted and improved quality of life for ALL PLAYERS. Think along those lines. Considering line-item shard binding is thinking way too small.
 
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