NEWS [UO.Com] Testing Combat Changes on TC1

[Old Vet Back Again]

Alright, let's take a look at the driving factors in the current meta. Archery and parry. It's pretty obvious that archery is so strong that it dictates the necessity of parry on the majority of mages. So, we've reached the point where it's pretty much unanimously agreed that we should nerf moving shot. That's fine and all, but it doesn't fix the other side of the equation, which is the strength of parry in an era of PvP that allows you to have incredible offense as a focused mage, but also incredible defense with the addition of parry and sometimes even healing.

So, we peel off the layer known as archery, and we're facing the issue of parry. What does parry do exactly to affect the meta? Well, if you play a focused parry mage, you're not lacking in offensive capability, but you almost completely invalidate melee dexers and weapon skill mages, while also being the only mage template that can deal with archery. So, why would anyone play a weapon skill mage that has no significant advantage over parry mages and has a good chance to get destroyed by archers. You don't, and that results in the never ending cycle of parry mages and archers. However, with the nerfing of moving shot, it does start to allow some outplayability for weapon skill mages vs them, but it doesn't really give an incentive to play them because they'll be pretty equal offensively to someone who has insane defense(focus mages).

So, we can ascertain that even though archery is a driving point in the existence of so many parry mage templates, they're both choking out diversity. What do we do though?

I would suggest:

1. Nerfing moving shot to only physical damage. (100% necessary)

2. Remove saving throws. Additionally, cut splintering weapon 'walk' duration in half.

3. Increase SDI cap for non-focused templates to 20. (Necro/mystic/magery)

4. Remove the 10% SDI bonus to mysticism from inscription. (mystic is going to be quite strong with SDI now affecting spell plague)

5. Add parry to the list of disqualifying skills for focused mages.
- This will allow for focused mages to play scribe + alchy for an incredibly strong offense, but insane defense will no longer accompany it.

6. Remove tactics requirement, but DO NOT include the disqualification from LMC bonus.

7. Allow corpse skin to debuff to 55 fire/poison as long as you have 100+ in necro and spirit speak. Allow jewelry to contribute to this cap. (120 is too much)

8. Increase the bonus damage of concussion for all melee weapons from 10 up to 15. (Lance is currently the only weapon in game that has +15) This will give more value to tactics as a skill, despite removing the requirement for specials. Attaining a certain damage increase + concussion will circumstantially yield a slightly higher damage special than armor ignore, which is the current standard special move for dealing raw damage in most scenarios. Concussion is essentially useless these days and could use this small buff. Crossbows do not need this.

9. Nerf super novas by ~7 damage. 10 + 1 for each 10 points of alchemy. 100 alchemy = 20 damage.

10. Tone down the top end damage bonus of spell focusing sashes.

Keep in mind, that many of these changes are codependent.

Hopefully @Kyronix and @Bleak can see the light and make this game fun again.

 

[Bleak]

I'm on TC now(Yew Gate) for anyone looking to test and give feedback. I'll be here until Westworld.

Also double potions were fixed with the TC update they were missed in the notes.

 

[CovenantX]

I'm on TC now(Yew Gate) for anyone looking to test and give feedback. I'll be here until Westworld.

Also double potions were fixed with the TC update they were missed in the notes.

Bleak, some of us (probably most of us) have built our suits around the +1 FC from the governors buffs, unfortunately on TC1 there's no buffs on the stone. so some of us won't beable to fully test actual combat as efficiently as we could on live servers.

 

[CovenantX]

Also double potions were fixed with the TC update they were missed in the notes.

On TC when you try to use a 2nd conflag potion it says the cooldown is 2 minutes but it counts down 3 seconds at a time, so it still seems to be about ~30 seconds (text display error for the cooldown).

 

[DJ Diddles]

Bleak, some of us (probably most of us) have built our suits around the +1 FC from the governors buffs, unfortunately on TC1 there's no buffs on the stone. so some of us won't beable to fully test actual combat as efficiently as we could on live servers.

In addition to this, please remove the completely arbitrary 1 week waiting time between switching towns when governors can switch town buffs with no impunity and no recourse for citizens. I propose making the cool down period 24 hours or instantly if a character is transferred or the town buff is changed.

@Bleak

 

[randy]

And how about a way to see which town is in VVV without having to logout.

 

[drcossack]

And how about a way to see which town is in VVV without having to logout.

And fix the size of the vvv status window when it pops up. Or make it possible to minimize/collapse it so it's not in the way when it first pops on your screen.

 

[Max Blackoak]

And fix the size of the vvv status window when it pops up. Or make it possible to minimize/collapse it so it's not in the way when it first pops on your screen.

yeah, this! make it pop up not in the middle of the screen but somewhere off to the side...

 

[PaithanTheElf]

You and your guildmate need to get on the same page. Literally the post above your's he disagrees.

It still sounds like an easier solution to just remove the focus spec. Wouldn't you be better off just giving inscription a boost to 20% SDI.
Regardless you never did answer why the game needs something classified as a pure mage.

Umm.. he was talking about parry mages not just a pure mage. So think before you type.

 

[Bleak]

I'm on TC now(Yew Gate) for anyone looking to test updates and give feedback.

 

[virem]

What happened to removing Saving Throw from archery and throwing? @Bleak

 

[PaithanTheElf]

I actually think they are moving in the right direction. Although @Bleak with the current changes- I think you should remove the mana cost of missing with moving shot.

I also think you should make the bow hit whatever element it is but make it so it hits at 70 just because of the reflect physical damage issue that could come up.

I have to test the mystic thing out but bumping spell plague in theory sounds like a bad idea.

Edit: Can someone please verify how much the hit chance increase is hurt for moving shot?

 

[Kiss Of Death]

Why did you add PARRY to the focus restriction?

 

[chad]

I'm on TC now(Yew Gate) for anyone looking to test updates and give feedback.

• 70 Tactics is still required to receive weapon skill lower mana bonus for specials

• 70 Tactics is still required to receive weapon skill lower mana bonus for specials

• 70 Tactics is still required to receive weapon skill lower mana bonus for specials

• 70 Tactics is still required to receive weapon skill lower mana bonus for specials

• 70 Tactics is still required to receive weapon skill lower mana bonus for specials

REMOVE THIS
REMOVE THIS
REMOVE THIS
REMOVE THIS
REMOVE THIS
REMOVE THIS
REMOVE THIS
REMOVE THIS
REMOVE THIS
REMOVE THIS

 

[Kiss Of Death]

I love the change for phys dmg on moving shot, good idea.

But it has no sense to put parry in the focus list!!!! At least higher dci cap to 60 if a mage has no parry skill... Otherwise it's impossible to pvp vs dexers!

 

[drcossack]

Edit: Can someone please verify how much the hit chance increase is hurt for moving shot?

From the limited testing me & @CovenantX did, it looks like it's about 50%? Really hard to tell with just ~10 shots though. About half of those were misses, and there's always the streakiness of the RNG to take into account as well.

 

[randy]

I'm fine with the parry changes if Archers are taking such a big hit it's a lesser need for parry and you really shouldn't be able to have a great offensive and defensive template.

 

[Parthis]

These parry changes, seem a little too strong.... I mean, @randy youre not even considering the implications for death strikers, other dexxers it seems a little excessive for me...

I really think they need to get a focus group of PvPers, It seem's like they are making a few mistakes here and there... and not considering other implications.. I really hope someone reads this and tries to puts together a real group of PvPers who pvp frequently to ask about changes....

 

[randy]

These parry changes, seem a little too strong.... I mean, @randy youre not even considering the implications for death strikers, other dexxers it seems a little excessive for me...

I really think they need to get a focus group of PvPers, It seem's like they are making a few mistakes here and there... and not considering other implications.. I really hope someone reads this and tries to puts together a real group of PvPers who pvp frequently to ask about changes....

Most temps are either defensive or offensive parry mages are both no issue with this and my main and only char is a parry mage.

 

[virem]

You can still have parrying... just not on a pure mage. It only makes sense to reduce the defense on a character that is supposed to be offensively strong.

The point is to create meanful choice between templates.

 

[virem]

We were also talking to @Bleak about removing Saving throw (disarm block) from archers entirely. Everyone there seemed to think it was a good idea.

It would bring back a lot of melee templates and provide a needed defensive weakness to another traditionally offensive character.

I would like to know what people think about this idea.

 

[Kiss Of Death]

tbh then the mastery would make no sense...I think it's not fair for archers...

My suggestion is to higher the dci cap to 60 if you play with magery and no parry...just for the pure mage.

It's impossible to play in big fights without parry...atm just one player keeps going in the field in fights without parry and it's Zora...we all know how he ends every single fight...as ghost. All of you play with parry ..... if you have 15 sdi the dmg will be silly tbh...

 

[PaithanTheElf]

You can still have parrying... just not on a pure mage. It only makes sense to reduce the defense on a character that is supposed to be offensively strong.

The point is to create meanful choice between templates.

I play with parry on all my chars and think that this change makes sense.

 

[virem]

tbh then the mastery would make no sense...I think it's not fair for archers...

My suggestion is to higher the dci cap to 60 if you play with magery and no parry...just for the pure mage.

It's impossible to play in big fights without parry...atm just one player keeps going in the field in fights without parry and it's Zora...we all know how he ends every single fight...as ghost. All of you play with parry ..... if you have 15 sdi the dmg will be silly tbh...

The point of all the archery changes is to reduce the need to have parrying on mages. Raising the DCI cap is counter productive to balancing. If you nerf archery to the point that mages don't NEED parry to live but then buff DCI then you just need to buff archery again.

If you want to still have parrying you can, you just have to give something up for it.

 

[Kiss Of Death]

Did u try to get corpse skinned + omen concussion from archer with xbow ( poison dmg)? The nerf will not effect 100 dmg hit ... Good luck to fight with 4 archers shooting at u with no parry

 

[elster]

As a parry mage, I also think it makes a lot of sense. If the nerf to moving shot sticks, it should help a lot of mages play without parry, and those who still do will have to at the cost of damage. That makes a lot of sense to me and seems like a true balance. I also agree that removing saving throw would actually make it even better. Alchemy to focus spec really made no sense. Even if you argue that supernovas are OP (which I don't agree with), it doesn't make sense to only punish mages using alchemy.

 

[CovenantX]

Did u try to get corpse skinned + omen concussion from archer with xbow ( poison dmg)? The nerf will not effect 100 dmg hit ... Good luck to fight with 4 archers shooting at u with no parry

=X wait until you combine that with nova =]

 

[Kiss Of Death]

Nova not an issue at all. I would even make more pots for pvp

 

[CovenantX]

Nova not an issue at all. I would even make more pots for pvp

Novas are the only thing you can't prevent from hitting you, it's OP for the amount of damage it does...

but I can one-shot my other character on TC1 right now without novas (room for alchemy is there too =D)

Technically it's not one-shot... debuffs then two-hits + free nova... (138 damage w/out nova) game too ez.

Edit: not counting orc brute either (this was tested with melee) lol bows hit for 0-7 damage harder due to velocity....

 

[randy]

Novas are the only thing you can't prevent from hitting you, it's OP for the amount of damage it does...

but I can one-shot my other character on TC1 right now without novas (room for alchemy is there too =D)

Technically it's not one-shot... debuffs then two-hits + free nova... (138 damage w/out nova) game too ez.

You're investing 100 skill points for something on a timer it's not op the people who say that make me shake my head.

 

[virem]

Corpse archers give up a ton to exist... like ninja and resist. Good luck with that after people start playing mystics again. They will choose good offense for horrible defense.

 

[Kiss Of Death]

For once I agree with Randy...

 

[CovenantX]

You're investing 100 skill points for something on a timer it's not op the people who say that make me shake my head.

play a character without alchemy and say the same thing. There's absolutely no other options to do 27 damage without casting something other than alchemy.... at least not something that the target can't defend against with reaction time.

 

[transcendent]

Please remove the 70 Tactics requirement for the weapon skill mana bonus. That still limits a lot of templates. The number of options would increase without that requirement.

 

[randy]

play a character without alchemy and say the same thing. There's absolutely no other options to do 27 damage without casting something other than alchemy.... at least not something that the target can't defend against with reaction time.

Like a spell trigger?

 

[virem]

Ya... invest 100 skill points to get a total of 13 extra damage on one supernova with a 2 min cool-down. Suuuuuuuuper Op kappa.

 

[virem]

It's easier to defend against supernova than spell trigger because you can anticipate it's going to happen better and move. Spell trigger has like double the tile range.

 

[virem]

I mean unless it's Arkane with the supernova... then you never can tell when those bad boys will be poppin off.

 

[Old Vet Back Again]

I actually think they are moving in the right direction. Although @Bleak with the current changes- I think you should remove the mana cost of missing with moving shot.

I second this. If all 3 of the new nerfs go into effect the added mana cost on a miss is overkill. Or keep the mana cost on a miss and get rid of one of the three other nerfs.

I'm fine with parry being added and alchemy removed. I still think we need to increase the SDI cap for non-focused mages as well

 

[Peekay]

Alright, let's take a look at the driving factors in the current meta. Archery and parry. It's pretty obvious that archery is so strong that it dictates the necessity of parry on the majority of mages. So, we've reached the point where it's pretty much unanimously agreed that we should nerf moving shot. That's fine and all, but it doesn't fix the other side of the equation, which is the strength of parry in an era of PvP that allows you to have incredible offense as a focused mage, but also incredible defense with the addition of parry and sometimes even healing.

So, we peel off the layer known as archery, and we're facing the issue of parry. What does parry do exactly to affect the meta? Well, if you play a focused parry mage, you're not lacking in offensive capability, but you almost completely invalidate melee dexers and weapon skill mages, while also being the only mage template that can deal with archery. So, why would anyone play a weapon skill mage that has no significant advantage over parry mages and has a good chance to get destroyed by archers. You don't, and that results in the never ending cycle of parry mages and archers. However, with the nerfing of moving shot, it does start to allow some outplayability for weapon skill mages vs them, but it doesn't really give an incentive to play them because they'll be pretty equal offensively to someone who has insane defense(focus mages).

So, we can ascertain that even though archery is a driving point in the existence of so many parry mage templates, they're both choking out diversity. What do we do though?

I would suggest:

1. Nerfing moving shot to only physical damage. (100% necessary)

2. Remove saving throws. Additionally, cut splintering weapon 'walk' duration in half.

3. Increase SDI cap for non-focused templates to 20. (Necro/mystic/magery)

4. Remove the 10% SDI bonus to mysticism from inscription. (mystic is going to be quite strong with SDI now affecting spell plague)

5. Add parry to the list of disqualifying skills for focused mages.
- This will allow for focused mages to play scribe + alchy for an incredibly strong offense, but insane defense will no longer accompany it.

6. Remove tactics requirement, but DO NOT include the disqualification from LMC bonus.

7. Allow corpse skin to debuff to 55 fire/poison as long as you have 100+ in necro and spirit speak. Allow jewelry to contribute to this cap. (120 is too much)

8. Increase the bonus damage of concussion for all melee weapons from 10 up to 15. (Lance is currently the only weapon in game that has +15) This will give more value to tactics as a skill, despite removing the requirement for specials. Attaining a certain damage increase + concussion will circumstantially yield a slightly higher damage special than armor ignore, which is the current standard special move for dealing raw damage in most scenarios. Concussion is essentially useless these days and could use this small buff. Crossbows do not need this.

9. Nerf super novas by ~7 damage. 10 + 1 for each 10 points of alchemy. 100 alchemy = 20 damage.

10. Tone down the top end damage bonus of spell focusing sashes.

Keep in mind, that many of these changes are codependent.

Hopefully @Kyronix and @Bleak can see the light and make this game fun again.

Pretty much this.

 

[CovenantX]

Ya... invest 100 skill points to get a total of 13 extra damage on one supernova with a 2 min cool-down. Suuuuuuuuper Op kappa.

13 extra damage to something that can't miss and has no cast time... why not use explosion potions, they do more than supernovas, oh that's right, it takes actual timing or trapping to use them...


hey bud, you're the one that originally compared nova's to Spell-trigger how is that fair? Supernova does 2 more damage at minimum IF the mystic has scribe... if not, it's +5-6 more damage with less than half the cooldown and also less than half the skill investment. I can't believe there are people trying to prevent this from being nerfed....

Edit: Pvp would be so much better off if novas were just removed completely...

 

[-Hey Arnold-]

13 extra damage to something that can't miss and has no cast time... why not use explosion potions, they do more than supernovas, oh that's right, it takes actual timing or trapping to use them...


hey bud, you're the one that originally compared nova's to Spell-trigger how is that fair? Supernova does 2 more damage at minimum IF the mystic has scribe... if not, it's +5-6 more damage with less than half the cooldown and also less than half the skill investment. I can't believe there are people trying to prevent this from being nerfed....

Edit: Pvp would be so much better off if novas were just removed completely...

Super novas are fine relax.

 

[cobb]

If you get rid of the need to have 70 Tactics for the mana bonus, then everything would be perfect.

 

[PwnySlaystation]

Do not remove the need for 70 tactics to receive the LMC bonus. Or we'll have deathstrikers running round with Bushido, Parry, Alchemy and Resist with no penalty to their already obscene 180 mana suits.

Giving deathstrikers a free skill with no penalty[not a high base damage type build] is just plain stupid.

 

[PaithanTheElf]

Do not remove the need for 70 tactics to receive the LMC bonus. Or we'll have deathstrikers running round with Bushido, Parry, Alchemy and Resist with no penalty to their already obscene 180 mana suits.

Giving deathstrikers a free skill with no penalty[not a high base damage type build] is just plain stupid.

That sounds awful to fight against.

 

[PwnySlaystation]

That sounds awful to fight against.

As soon as I saw the proposed change I cringed. It's basically handing stealthers their dream skillpoints. If the 70 Tactics req for specials didn't go through it'd be ridiculous. Its already going to be hard work and with the amount of mana they have now it should be fine with no LMC bonus[well, it wont be, it'll be hard as hell to kill any stealther now even more than it already is, but at least they won't have a ridiculous 20+ special move offensive capability too]. Bearing in mind "Deathstrike" isn't a special so isn't penalised at all, just the other specials used on these builds,[Nerve Strike, Disarm, Infectious Strike are the ones affected].

 

[CovenantX]

Not worried about NS/DS. the template won't get much more damage than it has already, the worst that could happen is they're all going to get alchemy for supernovas (20 damage)...shocker.
If supernovas are nerfed or removed, the extra damage really won't exist.

They won't go parry, because you can't evade if you drop tactics. so if they have parry already their template won't be changed.
NS/DS doesn't need more protection from dexers... smokebombs, hiding, & stealth should be enough.

Resist would be useful, but that's mana vamp & para spam = tracking will still take care of them.
with mystics getting a few buffs, sleep will be more common again too. Resist would be more useful than parry. but alchemy = best if nothing is done to novas.

 

[Merus]

@Bleak

After some review here are my thoughts:

Moving shot:

• Hit Chance penalty is good
• Increased mana cost is good
• No other changes

Alchemy

• Do not add to focus spec
• Rescale nova damage so that with 50 EP and 100 skill the max damage is 18
• Fix double throw bug

Necro

• Corpse doesn't stack with curse
• No need for focus spec

Push that to Prod for 90 days and see how meta adapts outside the bubble of test.

 

[Old Vet Back Again]

My DSer currently runs alchy, and I can think of a couple other skills that would make that template insane instead of resist or parry. It will be fun.

 

[PwnySlaystation]

Talk about try to make 100 points in Alchemy totally useless. 100 skill points + 50EP across items for an 18 damage item with a cooldown? Sounds like some salty people who died are having a cry.