Perm orange have to go, it hurt the wrong target

[OREOGL]

Whoa whoa whoa. Lets hit the brakes. There are some big exaggerations here.

Orange flagging isnt the end of uo and it does not affect normal shards. There are so many facets to take advantage of that you dont have to worry. I use non pvp characters in fel so I do not see why we are trying to pull the wool over others eyes.

There was merit to the siege argument but the rest is ridiculous. I have been doing slim trader quest and the battles in Ocllo are so infrequent that it does not affect blues that much. When I see the alert or alters pop up I recall out. This should be the same manner that it should be handled on any shard including siege and mugen.

We are not trying to isolate blues. Im scratching my head on that one still...

They incorporated a PVP system in FEL so going there or playing on a shard with the typeset, you walk into the situation with this understanding.

As I said siege ruleset has some merit but I am also not certain how changing the orange timer will affect the affected players turning orange ina a city they are in. The risk is the same since majority of the battles do not take place that long.

I think removing a orange tag would be adequate for those who were simply in the town immediately after they leave. Those who help or attack would have the tag remain til dead.
The last thing I want to see happen is the removal of that system to the detriment of the people it was designed for in the first place.

When I have time I would even be willing to test more on siege and give timers. But lets not go purely off a random list.

All that is accomplishing is throwing things to a wall and hoping it sticks.

 

[popps]

Whoa whoa whoa. Lets hit the brakes. There are some big exaggerations here.

Orange flagging isnt the end of uo and it does not affect normal shards. There are so many facets to take advantage of that you dont have to worry. I use non pvp characters in fel so I do not see why we are trying to pull the wool over others eyes.

There is plenty of activities a Blue might need or want to do in Felucca not because it is fancy, but because it is necessary....

Stealing refinement ingredients is ONLY possible in felucca towns. With merely 3 or 4 towns left out of VvV this means no more refinements stealing....

Bribing for better BODs...... Being able to hit also towns in Felucca is a must for the crafter who is trying to bribe for better BODs unless they want to go bankrupt.... Bribing costs surge very fast and taking out from bribing all VvV towns tailors and smithies means hardly being able any longer to bribe for better BODs at decent costs....

I could go on, but Tina already made a good summary of all activities seriously endangered by the orange labelling of blues in VvV battling towns..... we need to come up with a different way to keep blues out of VvV Battles other then just perma labelling everyone orange.....

We are not trying to isolate blues. Im scratching my head on that one still...

But that is what's happening with the global orange labelling ! It basically is a free pass and a bringing back in large scale player killing in UO back again......... That's not something UO needs....

They incorporated a PVP system in FEL so going there or playing on a shard with the typeset, you walk into the situation with this understanding.

Well, the need to leave blues out of VvV battles is totally understandable, what is being questioned here is the CHOSEN WAY to achieve that.
Just labelling everyone and their dog orange to keep blues out of VvV battles perhaps was overkill and a different way could have been thought up and chosen instead ?

The last thing I want to see happen is the removal of that system to the detriment of the people it was designed for in the first place.

Well, assuming that the goal is NOT to bring back to UO large scale player killing (which we already experienced in UO past how detrimental it is to the game...) but simply that of preventing blues to interact with VvV battles and players, perhaps, just PERHAPS, a different way can be thought up which does not need labelling blues non interested in the VvV battles as orange ??

And this, not just for Siege and Mugen, but also for production shards....

 

[OREOGL]

There is plenty of activities a Blue might need or want to do in Felucca not because it is fancy, but because it is necessary....

Stealing refinement ingredients is ONLY possible in felucca towns. With merely 3 or 4 towns left out of VvV this means no more refinements stealing....

Bribing for better BODs...... Being able to hit also towns in Felucca is a must for the crafter who is trying to bribe for better BODs unless they want to go bankrupt.... Bribing costs surge very fast and taking out from bribing all VvV towns tailors and smithies means hardly being able any longer to bribe for better BODs at decent costs....

I could go on, but Tina already made a good summary of all activities seriously endangered by the orange labelling of blues in VvV battling towns..... we need to come up with a different way to keep blues out of VvV Battles other then just perma labelling everyone orange.....



But that is what happening with the global orange labelling ! It basically is a free pass and a bringing back in large scale of player killing in UO back again......... That's not something UO needs....



Well, the need to leave blues out of VvV battles is totally understandable, what is being questioned here is the CHOSEN WAY to achieve that.
Just labelling everyone and their dog orange to keep blues out of VvV battles perhaps was overkill and a different way could have been thought up and chosen instead ?



Well, assuming that the goal is NOT to bring back to UO large scale player killing (which we already experienced in UO past how detrimental it is to the game...) but simply that of preventing blues to interact with VvV battles and players, perhaps, just PERHAPS, a different way can be thought up which does not need labelling blues non interested in the VvV battles as orange ??

I dont know man. As far as stealing it only limits it in one town. As said before the time limits are random based on thr pvp, so it could last five minutes or the full 20. I think even at that rate it leaves enough time to do those activities in other towns. But this is based off a couple shards that I play on.

As far bods, the same thing though from what I've seen sometimes fel is more expensive for bribing than trammel is.

The only ones that wanted to be isolated from vvv are the blues. With that I dont understand why they'd be in fel or play a shard with that ruleset. Certainly not just for bods or refinements.

I am still uncertain about the system as a whole but we wont know until we give it more time. At the moment it seems to be purely greed driven. This has some benefit of increased fighting which I like.

The problem we are having is that each of us seem to be seeing the argument through our own play style. Given the thread is based on only a few posters, you cant accept this as a majority when many blues may be just fine with how it is.

The large scale killing hasn't happened since trammel so im not certain what you are basing this on. If you play siege I can understand a little more.

 

[Prince Erik]

One thing I'd like to see would be some way of predicting/knowing which cities are active and which ones are planned to be? Maybe something like a gump you could click on saying which town is active and how much time you have before it goes active again? I'm not sure if that second one is possible, but my Siege char lives outside skara and that's the bank I use. I cannot gate and yikes, where am I supposed to run just to hit the bank with this guy? I even get lazy and use the inn there to logout on occasion. I'd second some kind of "interference" penalty for blues who attempt to circumvent acceptable VvV behavior but just being in a town when it starts? There has to be a better way?

-P.E.

 

[FrejaSP]

I look forward to see what the Devs comes up with, I'm sure there are a solusion, that will work better than this orange flaging.

 

[Tina Small]

I cleaned up the list in post #16 by deleting the "edited to add" notations, added some more quest NPC locations in affected towns, and added town names to a few of the items.

 

[OREOGL]

One thing I'd like to see would be some way of predicting/knowing which cities are active and which ones are planned to be? Maybe something like a gump you could click on saying which town is active and how much time you have before it goes active again? I'm not sure if that second one is possible, but my Siege char lives outside skara and that's the bank I use. I cannot gate and yikes, where am I supposed to run just to hit the bank with this guy? I even get lazy and use the inn there to logout on occasion. I'd second some kind of "interference" penalty for blues who attempt to circumvent acceptable VvV behavior but just being in a town when it starts? There has to be a better way?

-P.E.

Im sure they will fix this based off the feedback. But given history, devs sometimes have troubles tweaking a system.

But as it looks the only way to fix this and appease our non pvping friends is to take that function away entirely.

Lets hope they dont rush a "fix" a system that has barely has its legs under it.

 

[GalenKnighthawke]

Deleted to remove content. *shrugs* Screw it.

-Galen's player

 

[OREOGL]

I cleaned up the list in post #16 by deleting the "edited to add" notations, added some more quest NPC locations in affected towns, and added town names to a few of the items.

There are some examples there that in pretty sure arent exactly accurate. I.e. jhelom cemetery is not in guards until you get a little ways into town.

I would like to denote this post is particularly a case for siege only. None of the forementioned examples have much impact on production shards.

 

[OREOGL]

The VvV system appears to reflect the concerns of hard core PvPers who joined Factions once the artifacts were introduced.

One of their simultaneous concerns ("simultaneous" with certain features of Factions with which they had little patience, I mean) long-had been blues (such as myself) who will use Faction fights as an excuse to hunt reds and to pursue private grudges. Another simultaneous concern was the lack of ability to engage in free PKing across Felucca, with as few consequences as possible. (Ironically these concerns are contradictory somewhat, in that one favors unrestricted killing, and one opposes unrestricted killing.)

This particular part of VvV is cleverly designed to remedy chose concerns. While I actually don't share those concerns, and disagree with much of how the team has approached this, it's clear that the team heard those concerns and responded.

Ironically a sub-set of the players the team was catering to also plays on Siege, and have discovered that their own needs slightly differ. I really doubt there's a way around this, however, short of further separating the Siege rules from the production shard rules, which has its own issues. Sometimes things like this happen when you cater to a group that purports to be more unified than it is. (And by the way: If you need evidence that Siege players are a sub-set of the player to whom VvV caters, hard-core PvPers, you need look no further than the "wolf chasing sheep" graphic that's incorporated into Freja's signature, this post by "The Bo," and Scoundrel Rico's long-ago stated intent to infiltrate and steal from Trammel guilds on regular shards and steal from them.)

In conclusion I doubt there's a way around this and it was a perfectly foreseeable consequence of the needs of this group of players being met and catered to.

-Galen's player

The sweeping generalizations made here astound me.

 

[Tina Small]

There are some examples there that in pretty sure arent exactly accurate. I.e. jhelom cemetery is not in guards until you get a little ways into town.

I would like to denote this post is particularly a case for siege only. None of the forementioned examples have much impact on production shards.

I will remove that example from the list.

 

[James Moriarty]

Anyone knowledged about the ins and outs of software coding
Dude I have a 2:1 honours degree in computer applications development, so you have no need to preach to me about how to code.
....

 

[FrejaSP]

The VvV system appears to reflect the concerns of hard core PvPers who joined Factions once the artifacts were introduced.

One of their simultaneous concerns ("simultaneous" with certain features of Factions with which they had little patience, I mean) long-had been blues (such as myself) who will use Faction fights as an excuse to hunt reds and to pursue private grudges. Another simultaneous concern was the lack of ability to engage in free PKing across Felucca, with as few consequences as possible. (Ironically these concerns are contradictory somewhat, in that one favors unrestricted killing, and one opposes unrestricted killing.)

This particular part of VvV is cleverly designed to remedy chose concerns. While I actually don't share those concerns, and disagree with much of how the team has approached this, it's clear that the team heard those concerns and responded.

Ironically a sub-set of the players the team was catering to also plays on Siege, and have discovered that their own needs slightly differ. I really doubt there's a way around this, however, short of further separating the Siege rules from the production shard rules, which has its own issues. Sometimes things like this happen when you cater to a group that purports to be more unified than it is. (And by the way: If you need evidence that Siege players are a sub-set of the player to whom VvV caters, hard-core PvPers, you need look no further than the "wolf chasing sheep" graphic that's incorporated into Freja's signature, this post by "The Bo," and Scoundrel Rico's long-ago stated intent to infiltrate and steal from Trammel guilds on regular shards and steal from them.)

In conclusion I doubt there's a way around this and it was a perfectly foreseeable consequence of the needs of this group of players being met and catered to.

-Galen's player

Not sure what you are trying to say or what your point is. It seem very messed up to me.

 

[Great DC]

As far as im concerned VvV is a complete failure to encourage any PvP due to the focus group being a failure. Stat loss ruins and discourages any PvP. Its only five minutes now but the town can be won in five minutes if they have thiefs and lots of players zerging. The thief side is even more ridiculous as in they can literally win a town by stealing the sig 2-3 three times, regardless if there is a ten v ten between others in town killing each other constantly. The most points given out should be for killing other players, that is why its called (PVP)! Being a trammy thief should'nt be a template encouraged by this system. This is what happens when 90 percent of the focus group is trammel people. Remove stat loss and fix the point system to actually favor PVP

 

[FrejaSP]

Great DC please stay on topic. This thread is about the perm flagging and how it effect non VvV who use the towns.

 

[Bo Bo]

Bo doesnt see a this orange thing as a problem. You say you play siege, yet you complain because you are freely attackable anywhere. Thats like saying youre a pvper playing trammel. This is the only half way decent thing they allowed to happen with VvV on siege. Cause we didnt get the artis, why not let some other people have some fun?

 

[FrejaSP]

Bo doesnt see a this orange thing as a problem. You say you play siege, yet you complain because you are freely attackable anywhere. Thats like saying youre a pvper playing trammel. This is the only half way decent thing they allowed to happen with VvV on siege. Cause we didnt get the artis, why not let some other people have some fun?

No arties for you Bo

 

[The Zog historian]

Would it work to have blues (non-VvV players) get flagged orange only if they performed either a beneficial or an offensive act towards a VvV player (that would include area spells if they hurt a VvV player...) ?

Blues can be use to block at altars. Now that the altars' locations are well-known, the altars (perhaps the braziers) could emit an area effect, say, 50 hp every 5 seconds, to any blue within five tiles. This wouldn't prevent a blue from finding he's suddenly in a VvV area, though, and fresh meat for VvV reds.

All in all, after talking with a couple of people, I'd rather any blue be automatically telestormed to a random non-VvV city, maybe Luna specifically.

 

[The Zog historian]

Orange flagging isnt the end of uo and it does not affect normal shards. There are so many facets to take advantage of that you dont have to worry. I use non pvp characters in fel so I do not see why we are trying to pull the wool over others eyes.

As others said, stealing refinements and BOB bribing are the two big things. The former was specifically to bring life to Felucca, and now what?

As far bods, the same thing though from what I've seen sometimes fel is more expensive for bribing than trammel is.

Only sometimes, almost to the point of "rarely." Fel is almost always the better place to check, and sometimes I wonder if people even make Fel runes for their crafters that offer bribes. But even so, now the number of "safe" bribe-taking NPCs has been cut by, what, 40%?

 

[OREOGL]

As others said, stealing refinements and BOB bribing are the two big things. The former was specifically to bring life to Felucca, and now what?



Only sometimes, almost to the point of "rarely." Fel is almost always the better place to check, and sometimes I wonder if people even make Fel runes for their crafters that offer bribes. But even so, now the number of "safe" bribe-taking NPCs has been cut by, what, 40%?

Stealing refinements is not a big thing on production shards, maybe it is on siege but I am willing to bet it isn't. Bulk order deed bribing takes a couple minutes and can be done anywhere. Pretty much takes care of any reasonable argument one could have about those.

 

[OREOGL]

So I am running around siege, in fact afk in the middle of moonglow at the moment while typing this, and my world is not coming to an end....
I will continue to run around the other towns til i might even see a person.

Update: Standing in the middle of britain, still no one? Could it be that the prior posts were a bit exaggerated? Man, it looks like i could even do some BOD bribing or steal a few refinements.

Okay so now I am orange in Jhelom and standing around for at least 5 mins. Still nada.

It even gave me a big square box giving me the warning that I'd be attackable. Im not in VVV or in any guild. Guess there goes some other concerns.

When asking in general chat only one person said they had an issue with it. The one VVV player said he saw a whole 5 players in the last week who were stealthers. I'd be pretty concerned.

 

[The Zog historian]

Stealing refinements is not a big thing on production shards, maybe it is on siege but I am willing to bet it isn't.

That is what we call no excuse. It's part of the game. It's something some of us like. Just because it's "not a big thing" to you doesn't mean it should be neglected.

Bulk order deed bribing takes a couple minutes and can be done anywhere. Pretty much takes care of any reasonable argument one could have about those.

Clearly you have no idea what bribing is all about.

Please stop talking about things of which you have no clue, would you?

 

[The Zog historian]

So I am running around siege, in fact afk in the middle of moonglow at the moment while typing this, and my world is not coming to an end....
I will continue to run around the other towns til i might even see a person.

In other words, you aren't in a town that's become a VvV zone. Poor try. Do better next time, if you can.

Try a production shard when you might find your defenseless crafter suddenly attacked by red VvVers that will kill anything that moves.

 

[OREOGL]

In other words, you aren't in a town that's become a VvV zone. Poor try. Do better next time, if you can.

Try a production shard when you might find your defenseless crafter suddenly attacked by red VvVers that will kill anything that moves.

Then how did i turn orange?

As far as bribing i do it regularly. Check out the warning before i turned orange. it was up for several minutes.

 

[Obsidian]

Then how did i turn orange?

As far as bribing i do it regularly. Check out the warning before i turned orange. it was up for several minutes.

I recalled into Brit and got that notification. How long do I have to get out?

Is it true that if any member of your guild is in VvV that any other character in the guild will get the notification messages?

 

[OREOGL]

I recalled into Brit and got that notification. How long do I have to get out?

Is it true that if any member of your guild is in VvV that any other character in the guild will get the notification messages?

Few minutes, when it comes up you cant recall in.

 

[The Zog historian]

Then how did i turn orange?

Oh, so you claim now, which you didn't specify before. And that's Siege, anyway. Wow, lucky for you that no one was on in the middle of a weekend day, but what if there had been? Now would you care to try that during primetime, particularly on a production shard when half a dozen will "fel ____ mint," and any reds can kill a blue who didn't get out?

The idea that a crafter could get PKd just for "being there" is not only contrary to the spirit of the game for the last 173 months, it's almost as bad as Garriott's original idea that UO didn't need guard zones anywhere. How wonderful that most Fel cities are now PvP-consent zones, and thus deserted.

As far as bribing i do it regularly. Check out the warning before i turned orange. it was up for several minutes.

You don't seem to understand that Felucca NPCs are needed. If you really did any bribing of significance, you'd know that since most Fel cities are now off-limits to non-fighting characters, there are that many fewer NPCs from which to get bribes.

Like I said, please know what you're talking about.

 

[The Zog historian]

I recalled into Brit and got that notification. How long do I have to get out?

Is it true that if any member of your guild is in VvV that any other character in the guild will get the notification messages?

You have 30 seconds before you turn orange, but remember that once the town turns into a VvV zone, the lack of guards means that any reds can pick off your mule. And they will.

Yes, having a guild member in VvV will broadcast the status to all members.

 

[Promathia]

This thread is hilarious.

1. People are over-exaggerating how long it takes for you to go orange in a VvV battle city
2. Fel Cities were a completely deserted wasteland on production shards before VvV.

 

[OREOGL]

Oh, so you claim now, which you didn't specify before. And that's Siege, anyway. Wow, lucky for you that no one was on in the middle of a weekend day, but what if there had been? Now would you care to try that during primetime, particularly on a production shard when half a dozen will "fel ____ mint," and any reds can kill a blue who didn't get out?

The idea that a crafter could get PKd just for "being there" is not only contrary to the spirit of the game for the last 173 months, it's almost as bad as Garriott's original idea that UO didn't need guard zones anywhere. How wonderful that most Fel cities are now PvP-consent zones, and thus deserted.



You don't seem to understand that Felucca NPCs are needed. If you really did any bribing of significance, you'd know that since most Fel cities are now off-limits to non-fighting characters, there are that many fewer NPCs from which to get bribes.

Like I said, please know what you're talking about.

It's okay man, right now I'm on a production shard. Great Lakes actually, right now in jhelom. So to answer your question, yes, yes I would.

I'm pretty sure people bribe on a regular basis without "needing" fel npcs.

Maybe you just feel like arguing, not sure, but pretty sure I've made my point. But good luck basing your entire argument on BOD bribes on a production shard in fel.

 

[The Zog historian]

This thread is hilarious.

1. People are over-exaggerating how long it takes for you to go orange in a VvV battle city

How many times must I point out that there are red VvVers, who are no longer hindered by guards? And with the ease of getting silver, what's the problem with blues taking an occasional count on an unawares crafter?

2. Fel Cities were a completely deserted wasteland on production shards before VvV.

So were most Trammel cities. What's your point?

Fel cities became important again for BOD bribing. Now most of the NPCs are off-limits if a crafter doesn't want to risk getting caught.

 

[The Zog historian]

It's okay man, right now I'm on a production shard. Great Lakes actually, right now in jhelom. So to answer your question, yes, yes I would.

So you're on a worthless character hiding somewhere out of the way, when I'm talking about the very possible scenario of being caught at the bank. A lot of crafters could easily be taken down with a barrage of magic arrows, or are you suggesting any crafter now have all 70s armor and Protection cast?

I'm pretty sure people bribe on a regular basis without "needing" fel npcs.

Maybe you just feel like arguing, not sure, but pretty sure I've made my point. But good luck basing your entire argument on BOD bribes on a production shard in fel.

I'm hardly interested in arguing, particularly when you've made no point. Serious bribers go all over Fel, and they know that even on quiet shards an NPC can be all bribed out. For that reason, and keeping expense down, every Felucca NPC that can be bribed is important.

 

[OREOGL]

So you're on a worthless character hiding somewhere out of the way, when I'm talking about the very possible scenario of being caught at the bank. A lot of crafters could easily be taken down with a barrage of magic arrows, or are you suggesting any crafter now have all 70s armor and Protection cast?



I'm hardly interested in arguing, particularly when you've made no point. Serious bribers go all over Fel, and they know that even on quiet shards an NPC can be all bribed out. For that reason, and keeping expense down, every Felucca NPC that can be bribed is important.

No im actually on a red who turned orange. You make it sound like every crafter on a production shard is in fel.

I really don't know what your point is anymore. "Serious bribers?" ok man lol.

 

[The Zog historian]

No im actually on a red who turned orange. You make it sound like every crafter on a production shard is in fel.

I have to wonder if you even have a crafter, for all your claims that you do bribing. If you did, you'd know that many many go to Felucca for bribing, or rather used to go, as often as Trammel. Felucca cities were in fact my default choice. Now there are just a few towns left.

I really don't know what your point is anymore. "Serious bribers?" ok man lol.

Thanks for finally showing you have no idea what I'm talking about. Edit: why did I write "finally" when you already did?

 

[OREOGL]

I have to wonder if you even have a crafter, for all your claims that you do bribing. If you did, you'd know that many many go to Felucca for bribing, or rather used to go, as often as Trammel. Felucca cities were in fact my default choice. Now there are just a few towns left.



Thanks for finally showing you have no idea what I'm talking about. Edit: why did I write "finally" when you already did?

Yeah, just like I didn't turn orange, or was hiding in a city right?
I dont think anyone knows what you're talking about.

 

[The Zog historian]

Yeah, just like I didn't turn orange, or was hiding in a city right?
I dont think anyone knows what you're talking about.

Clearly you don't. Have you even read the thread from the beginning? Do you even know what Freja is talking about, namely crafters finding themselves easy targets? And it's not just Siege. If it's too hard for you to find the first post, I suppose I can make a link for you.

Clearly you don't do bribing of any substantial amount, otherwise you'd have known Felucca NPCs were just as useful as Trammel ones. Now, most are off-limits. What is so hard for you to understand?

 

[OREOGL]

Clearly you don't. Have you even read the thread from the beginning? Do you even know what Freja is talking about, namely crafters finding themselves easy targets? And it's not just Siege. If it's too hard for you to find the first post, I suppose I can make a link for you.

Clearly you don't do bribing of any substantial amount, otherwise you'd have known Felucca NPCs were just as useful as Trammel ones. Now, most are off-limits. What is so hard for you to understand?

Freja wasn't referring to crafters or bods specifically, but people on Siege not participating as much because they're worried about VVV and turning orange when being in a city.

As far as bribing its not hard to grasp the more vendors you go to, even in fel, the lower the bribe costs are. Maybe thats all you do, i dont know, and perhaps that's what makes you a "serious briber" (lol).

As far as being orange, have you even tested this? What shard do you even play?

 

[The Zog historian]

Freja wasn't referring to crafters or bods specifically, but people on Siege not participating as much because they're worried about VVV and turning orange when being in a city.

And one doesn't need to add 2 and 2 together to realize that crafters, almost always being weak and non-fighting characters, are part of those she's talking about.

"Traders Quest runners, Fishers doing Fishing quest and players hanging out or shopping in their local town"

As far as bribing its not hard to grasp the more vendors you go to, even in fel, the lower the bribe costs are. Maybe thats all you do, i dont know, and perhaps that's what makes you a "serious briber" (lol).

You can "lol" all you want, but simple logic escapes you. Why is it so hard for you to understand that with a reduced number of vendors, costs go up, not to mention that vendors may be all bribed out?

Good lord, I have to wonder if you ever did a single BOD in your UO play.

As far as being orange, have you even tested this? What shard do you even play?

Being orange? I don't have to test it, since I'm fighting in VvV regularly.

 

[OREOGL]

And one doesn't need to add 2 and 2 together to realize that crafters, almost always being weak and non-fighting characters, are part of those she's talking about.

"Traders Quest runners, Fishers doing Fishing quest and players hanging out or shopping in their local town"



You can "lol" all you want, but simple logic escapes you. Why is it so hard for you to understand that with a reduced number of vendors, costs go up, not to mention that vendors may be all bribed out?

Good lord, I have to wonder if you ever did a single BOD in your UO play.



Being orange? I don't have to test it, since I'm fighting in VvV regularly.

You are exaggerating. This was my point to begin with, VVV does not limit people from bribing or stealing etc as much as they are claiming. And certainly not on production shards as you are claiming.

I know you've been struggling with proving it otherwise, which is probably why you've resorted to thinly veiled insults, but I'm not all that concerned.

If you had read anything I've written before I think you'd have a better understanding. However, I can gather that you haven't which is why you're still stuck posting about BODS and bribes.

One day I hope to be a "serious briber" like you are.

 

[FrejaSP]

Cool down. I mainly made the thread because the changes should had made all busy testing out all the new stuff but the shard had been very slow after the public.
Some think Siege is a PvP shard and should not worried about the blue who use the towns for a lot of actions. Siege is not just a PvP shard, it's a community with both non PvP'ers and PvP'ers and both sides are needed.
Right now, I fear a lot will go back to their old shard or just give up UO as this changes their game in a way they don't like.
I don't think the BoDs Bribing is a big problem, it's more the traders quest, heartwood quests, fishing quests, the brit lib turn in, the quest for black and white seed and some other stuff that have to be done in towns, that get battle zones.
I had hoped this Public would wake up the shard and all would enjoy the new stuff, VvV, New Loot and Traders Quests but it is not working because players do not feel like playing when they can't use the town like they use to do.

 

[The Zog historian]

You are exaggerating. This was my point to begin with, VVV does not limit people from bribing or stealing etc as much as they are claiming. And certainly not on production shards as you are claiming.

It's hardly an exaggeration. Crafters that can die easily from another player simply cannot risk going to a city that might suddenly turn into a VvV zone. Why is that so hard for you to understand? Why is it so hard for you to understand that now the majority of Felucca NPCs are off-limits for bribing, lest someone get caught by a red, or even a blue who'll take a count for the fun of it?

And that's just production shards. It's even worse on Siege where people can't recall out.

I know you've been struggling with proving it otherwise, which is probably why you've resorted to thinly veiled insults, but I'm not all that concerned.

Insults? The only insult is yours to our intelligence. But keep on deluding yourself that you're "proving" anything.

If you had read anything I've written before I think you'd have a better understanding. However, I can gather that you haven't which is why you're still stuck posting about BODS and bribes.

One day I hope to be a "serious briber" like you are.

Why should I have to bother what you wrote "before"? That isn't the point here, only what you are posting now. It's clear you (and even the Devs to an extent) don't understand VvV's ramifications to non-fighting characters.

 

[The Zog historian]

Cool down. I mainly made the thread because the changes should had made all busy testing out all the new stuff but the shard had been very slow after the public.
Some think Siege is a PvP shard and should not worried about the blue who use the towns for a lot of actions. Siege is not just a PvP shard, it's a community with both non PvP'ers and PvP'ers and both sides are needed.
Right now, I fear a lot will go back to their old shard or just give up UO as this changes their game in a way they don't like.
I don't think the BoDs Bribing is a big problem, it's more the traders quest, heartwood quests, fishing quests, the brit lib turn in, the quest for black and white seed and some other stuff that have to be done in towns, that get battle zones.
I had hoped this Public would wake up the shard and all would enjoy the new stuff, VvV, New Loot and Traders Quests but it is not working because players do not feel like playing when they can't use the town like they use to do.

I'm not the one making non-points about how there's no danger. If it's bad enough on production shards that I and my friends won't bother with VvV cities, how much worse is it on Siege, where everybody uses the towns and Heartwood? On production shards, the people who used Felucca towns before, other than reds, were almost always crafters bribing BODs. Now they're driven away.

 

[FrejaSP]

I just wanted to stop the thread from going crazy

 

[Barok]

Im not sure about this. As far as regular shards, those who dont want to stay in tram. Otherwise, trying pvp is pretty much jumping in feet first regardless of what Color your tag is.

Im not certain how else you'd encourage new players since they must be in a guild to join. If they attack someone then its on them.

You seem to be missing the biggest point: you don't have to join VvV, you don't have to attack someone, all you have to do is be in the wrong place at the wrong time and if you can't get out fast enough you become *permanent* orange. That is unacceptable.

 

[OREOGL]

It's hardly an exaggeration. Crafters that can die easily from another player simply cannot risk going to a city that might suddenly turn into a VvV zone. Why is that so hard for you to understand? Why is it so hard for you to understand that now the majority of Felucca NPCs are off-limits for bribing, lest someone get caught by a red, or even a blue who'll take a count for the fun of it?

And that's just production shards. It's even worse on Siege where people can't recall out.



Insults? The only insult is yours to our intelligence. But keep on deluding yourself that you're "proving" anything.



Why should I have to bother what you wrote "before"? That isn't the point here, only what you are posting now. It's clear you (and even the Devs to an extent) don't understand VvV's ramifications to non-fighting characters.

Okay lets start from the top. We are talking about crafters now. Crafters can die from another player if they decide to go into a active vvv town.

It is an exaggeration that they cannot go to any town. I went to siege and proved this by standing in several towns for a good length of time each before running into anyone. And when I did see someone it was one person. A lot ofpeople use stealth or hiding there anyways.

If they are in a town that is about ti go active there is more than enough time to recall out. Though I suppose you will then try to point out what happens if theyre flagged? Well then were subject to being guard whacked and knowingingly took the risk anyways.

And yes, people can recall out, you just cant recall in.

You are choosing to only see one side of this which makes your posts less credible. If thats the route you want to take that's fine with me.

It has nothing to do with my understanding as I have given basis to my posts whereas yours resort to insults and repeated "you don't get it".

I will make my point by leaing my mule in fel forn the next.month andI will even log outt in an Inn. He has no hiding or Margery I wont even use recall scrolls.

But most of all the fact you didnt read anything before to gather a context speaks volumes. I think you had to go read frejasp posts after you started posting because you had no idea what you were talking about. This pretty much makes you a troll but I digress.

Feel free to provide evidence to back your next statement up but im guessing it'll be back to you dont get it or some other poor attempt at an insult.

 

[OREOGL]

You seem to be missing the biggest point: you don't have to join VvV, you don't have to attack someone, all you have to do is be in the wrong place at the wrong time and if you can't get out fast enough you become *permanent* orange. That is unacceptable.

I did not miss the point that is what we are discussing to begin with.

It takes some carelessness to become orange in an active Vvv city.

But as stated before, Im certain this will be fixed bit hopefully not by removing it entirely. Because then its a detriment to those it was designed for over a few crafters claiming its the end of uo for them.

Siege players at least have a reasonable argument there.

 

[FrejaSP]

And yes, people can recall out, you just cant recall in.

Not on Siege, we do not have recall on the shard.

It takes some carelessness to become orange in an active Vvv city.

VvV should not interrupt non VvV's play in that way, why should they be forced to run out of town? Town was meant to be safe, even in Fel and back before Trammel.

 

[OREOGL]

Not on Siege, we do not have recall on the shard.

VvV should not interrupt non VvV's play in that way, why should they be forced to run out of town? Town was meant to be safe, even in Fel and back before Trammel.

Sorry I was referencing production shards mostly. I should have noted that.

The overall point I am making is to not let exaggerations influence an impact to the system more than it has to be. Devs base a lot of decisions off this forum and there is no need to lead them in another direction just because it didnt benefit a certain play type.

Siege has its own circumstances which overall the fix will probably impact every shard nit just siege.

I hope this is morr clear.

 

[SpyderBite]

I have a question. How is the system supposed to determine if a player is a crafter or not?

Lets say that somebody is running a run for reagents so they can make more potions via alchemy. Should the VvV system become tweaked to exclude "crafters" from the battle then this fellow can go about his business.

Now this gent is in his way out of town, after a free ticket in without flagging, decides to detect hidden and steal the sigil and make a dash for the town line.

Or perhaps he starts tossing around a few heals or poison fields.

What I'm getting at is that anybody can safely enter the battle and buy an empty bottle and then strategically position themselves before they are flagged for vvv.

I'm all for allowing people currently on trader quests being allowed to bypass the flag. But they shouldn't be allowed to quit the quest (again, using the quest flag as a way to bypass the VvV Gump).

But the generic plea for safe passage for "crafters" is not going to work. I have 100 Alchemy on my thief so I could easily play the crsfter card until I located the sigil.

Anyways, the whole picture needs to be looked at before any changes are mad. Off the hip changes have always historically led to exploits.

 

[The Zog historian]

Start from the top? You never even started.

Okay lets start from the top. We are talking about crafters now. Crafters can die from another player if they decide to go into a active vvv town.

Which is unacceptable.

It is an exaggeration that they cannot go to any town. I went to siege and proved this by standing in several towns for a good length of time each before running into anyone. And when I did see someone it was one person. A lot ofpeople use stealth or hiding there anyways.

Nobody ever said "any town." But all the VvV cities are now off-limits because at any point they could turn into Chicago or Detroit on a Saturday night.

If they are in a town that is about ti go active there is more than enough time to recall out. Though I suppose you will then try to point out what happens if theyre flagged? Well then were subject to being guard whacked and knowingingly took the risk anyways.

And yes, people can recall out, you just cant recall in.[/quote]

How many times do I have to tell you that any red coming in, or a blue with counts to spare, can pick off any crafter that hasn't gotten out yet? In fact, since a crafter might be carrying uninsured hammers, he's a rational target.

This isn't even talking about Siege, where gee, wonderful, a crafter might find himself in the middle of a war zone, only to run out of town and get killed by VvVers anyway.

You are choosing to only see one side of this which makes your posts less credible. If thats the route you want to take that's fine with me.

It has nothing to do with my understanding as I have given basis to my posts whereas yours resort to insults and repeated "you don't get it".

That's because your side is completely irrational and ignores plain fact of the ramifications. You want to stick your head in the sand and think everything's fine, when on production shards it's bad enough.

I will make my point by leaing my mule in fel forn the next.month andI will even log outt in an Inn. He has no hiding or Margery I wont even use recall scrolls.

So you claim. So what? You talk about "credible" when there's no reason to believe you'd log in even for a second. You still don't even know what the availability of Felucca NPCs means to BOB bribers, let alone what the loss of many of them has done to BOB bribing.

But most of all the fact you didnt read anything before to gather a context speaks volumes. I think you had to go read frejasp posts after you started posting because you had no idea what you were talking about. This pretty much makes you a troll but I digress.

How laughable, when you are the one getting fisked at every turn, and all you're doing is blabbing in circles. Are you just Sibble's sock puppet that you call me a "troll" for this?

It's clear you didn't read Freja's posts. Do you really need me to make that link for you, since it's so hard for you to find your way?

Feel free to provide evidence to back your next statement up

I already have, but you keep choosing to ignore it.

VvV starts in a town. A crafter tries to get out right away, but a red just said "Fel ____ mint" and catches the crafter at the bank. To prevent against these, crafters can no longer risk using any cities that are VvV, restricting the number of NPCs they use for bribing.

Turning orange doesn't even matter. Why is that so hard for you to understand?

but im guessing it'll be back to you dont get it or some other poor attempt at an insult.

Insults? If you feel "insulted," then kindly go back to whatever non-UO game you're playing, because I have to wonder if you even play this one.