Goza's and Bans

[Lady Aalia]

There have been some bans about "illigal housedesigns" in the last couple weeks, and while i usually applaud EA going after people abusing the system...

I have a huge problem with these!

Normally when something is against the TOS or rules, it is well known and announced.

But this? for years people have been adding to castles and keeps , have been creating staircases with Gozas, even participated in EA sponsored Deco Contests using the Gozas.

And now all the sudden its against the rules, no official word, no nothing, just random bans without a warning.
Witch mean marks on your account that you can never remove.

So how about it is set as "new" Rule then announced to the public and then given the people a realistic time ammount to change their housedesign, and then you can start hitting them with a banhammer...

Also it would be lovley for once to get specific Rules.. what is illigal , what is not?
Is a corner staircase ok? is the floating ball ok? what makes the housedesign illigal? I can raise stuff up with the housetool too.. is that going to be illigal?

Dear Devs please reconsider this, if you have to make it illigal then give people notice and then time to take their sometimes very extensive work down instead of just hitting random people with bans for doing something thats been fine for years


***to the Uhaul Mods

If anyone goes of ranting and raving please just move them to the EL not the whole Thread,
I got Petras permission to be the board b****h for today

 

[ingsmsico]

I feel like I'm not getting the whole story

were the people banned with no warning or temp-blocked for refusing to comply?

that said, it is wrong to punish players because of lack of developer foresight. they created the magincia thing with the rubble, what did they expect to happen?

I firmly believe no one should ever be banned from UO except in extreme cases. no one wants their favorite char stuck in UO jail for 3 days. that is a legitimate punishment for some things.

threatening people with bans and the 3 strike your out mentality is not a sign of a good relationship with the players.

we need punishment/ban reform in UO.

 

[RealityCheck]

Pretty much, with Goza mats u can make yourself an added floor depending on how tall your house is to start with u can go upto 4 Floors i think in a normal house possibly 5 not sure using goza mats, In luna u can reach 7 or 8 floors suddenly after yrs of ppl having done this with stairs and added rooms, Some newbs decided it isnt fair and started paging and after many yrs of no one having an issue including the GMs who have told players in the past it was acceptable to do this are now having issues with it and hitting innocent ppl with the ban hammer.

BTW i love my proper sentences... lol

 

[Bullseye_of_Atl]

Pretty much, with Goza mats u can make yourself an added floor depending on how tall your house is to start with u can go upto 4 Floors i think in a normal house possibly 5 not sure using goza mats, In luna u can reach 7 or 8 floors suddenly after yrs of ppl having done this with stairs and added rooms, Some newbs decided it isnt fair and started paging and after many yrs of no one having an issue including the GMs who have told players in the past it was acceptable to do this are now having issues with it and hitting innocent ppl with the ban hammer.

BTW i love my proper sentences... lol

Funny you said that, I was suddenly seeing "pops" Racer rattling off a paragraph without stopping for a breath!...

 

[Ransom_of_BiC]

I don't necessarily think it was always 'newbs' that paged. I think what started it was some schmuck who couldn't access his house sign or see into his house or something, because some other schmuck's house was overhanging it.

However, to ban the players for it is ludicrous. Adjust the official rules, send out an announcement and be on your merry way.

(also I can't imagine adding all those floors and what not to my house. I have a hard enough time dealing with the 3 floors I have!)

 

[Bullseye_of_Atl]

I have tried the additional goza floor. I've made staircases even.......the best you can do with them, below roof level, is a raised floor section. Too high, and you can't get up there due to the ceiling. Even on the roof, you have to watch what you place up there, or you won't be able to walk under it in some spots.

Then there's the lack of not being able to see yourself.

They just need to re-educate the GM's instead of caving in to some seller in Luna who hates his neighbor.

 

[Tina Small]

There have been some bans about "illigal housedesigns" in the last couple weeks, and while i usually applaud EA going after people abusing the system...

I have a huge problem with these!

Normally when something is against the TOS or rules, it is well known and announced.

But this? for years people have been adding to castles and keeps , have been creating staircases with Gozas, even participated in EA sponsored Deco Contests using the Gozas.

And now all the sudden its against the rules, no official word, no nothing, just random bans without a warning.
Witch mean marks on your account that you can never remove.

So how about it is set as "new" Rule then announced to the public and then given the people a realistic time ammount to change their housedesign, and then you can start hitting them with a banhammer...

Also it would be lovley for once to get specific Rules.. what is illigal , what is not?
Is a corner staircase ok? is the floating ball ok? what makes the housedesign illigal? I can raise stuff up with the housetool too.. is that going to be illigal?

Dear Devs please reconsider this, if you have to make it illigal then give people notice and then time to take their sometimes very extensive work down instead of just hitting random people with bans for doing something thats been fine for years

I remember a friend showing me a design she was making with gazas for a Halloween contest (I think it was a big pumpkin face or something along those lines). A few hours later she messaged me and told me a GM had stopped by and told her she needed to take it all down. This happened in October 2006.

 

[XLaCeDX]

"Witch mean marks on your account that you can never remove."


Actually for $30 you can remove ALL marks from your account.

"When an account is transferred or traded using the Account Access Transfer Program:

All previous billing information is removed from the account

Any warning or other misconduct recorded on the account is deleted..."

EA's account transfer program:

http://support.ea.com/cgi-bin/ea.cf...p_accessibility=&p_page=&p_lva=6174&nextlink=

Just be advised that:

"When you transfer an EA Online account, you are transferring all subscriptions tied to that account. For example, if you subscribe to Ultima Online and Club Pogo, both of those subscriptions will be transferred along with your EA Online account."

$30 isn't a bad price to pay to clear a vet account of all marks.

 

[Lady Aalia]

I feel like I'm not getting the whole story

were the people banned with no warning or temp-blocked for refusing to comply?

In the last 2 Weeks i have seen 2 people here on Uhaul and one of my personal friends, that have gotten temp bans for this

I am sure you can find them easy enough

Sad thing is there was never an official anouncement untill maybe 2 days ago when it was said: an official statement will be coming in the next couple days

Normally stuff is announced then acten upon, not the other way around....

 

[Lady_Rachel]

Bad form EA.

I agree with Aalia wholeheartedly.
If you are going to change the rules, especially after Dev's have already given the ok that a thing is kosher, then a heads up is only fair.

At least you could wait to start banning folks til after you tell them about the rule changes?

Perhaps a little amnesty is in need here for those folks who unwittedly became the target of rule change.

In the meantime dear decorators I would suggest you tear down those walls, before the hammer hits you.

 

[RavenWinterHawk]

Can you walk on the new floor?
11 years playing no clue you could do that.

 

[Just Do It]

Dont forget the goza can be used to exploit a mining bug

 

[Ransom_of_BiC]

Can you walk on the new floor?
11 years playing no clue you could do that.

Im not sure, but it sounds like you probably can.

I'd never do this, mainly because I'm lazy. I keep my homes a big box for ease of my guild.

 

[Kellgory]

If the feature is blocking someone elses house sign or vendors, I can see them asking the house owner to move or remove the items, but if the house is in the middle of nowhere and has no neighbors the who is getting harmed. One of the great features of UO has always been the ability to be creative, whether that has been through vendor backpack art, cut cloth furniture, three story waterfall with pool made from bandies, or any of the other ways players have taken ordinary items and turned them into things that made people stop and say "wow, how did you do that".

 

[RealityCheck]

Yes u can lol.

 

[RealityCheck]

You can walk on the floor, Ive been on a floor that would equal the height of the 7th floor of a house. Clearly the floor was Goza mats.

 

[Beer_Cayse]

agreed. my company has a policy requiring change notices at least 48 hours in advance of something affecting a large population (software changes, etc). that doesn't get done, the changes do NOT go into effect.

real bad performance EA ... no warning then a hammer to boot? really bad.

 

[Morgana LeFay (PoV)]

It would be nice to get some developer feedback on this one. With all the other things that need fixed in UO, it seems odd the GMs would waste time with things like this. I am guessing that the reason has to do with the extra floors blocking someone else's house...but who knows? There could be another reason for it.

 

[Ransom_of_BiC]

If the feature is blocking someone elses house sign or vendors, I can see them asking the house owner to move or remove the items, but if the house is in the middle of nowhere and has no neighbors the who is getting harmed. One of the great features of UO has always been the ability to be creative, whether that has been through vendor backpack art, cut cloth furniture, three story waterfall with pool made from bandies, or any of the other ways players have taken ordinary items and turned them into things that made people stop and say "wow, how did you do that".

I loved the bandaid 'hot tubs', 'swimming pools' and also the cut cloth 'beds'

 

[Lady Aalia]

This Guy was banned:

http://vboards.stratics.com/showthread.php?t=209415&highlight=Goza

Him:

http://vboards.stratics.com/showthread.php?t=206210&highlight=Goza

and here the official Word From EA

http://vboards.stratics.com/showthread.php?t=209533&highlight=Goza

We’ll discuss house design and gozamats: History and future

All it says nowhere does it say are now bannable...

I would like to add my buddy asked 2 devs before starting his Building and was just visited by the EMs and has been awarded Townstatus without having anyone tell him its bannable

 

[Lady Storm]

It's a sad day in UO when GM/DEV make policy on the fly. It seems each time we get a new leader or member in the dev lineup WE loose something the last DEV said was ok.
I can see if it was grossly overshadowing like a few I have seen covering the road to luna on chessy, but in overall the goza useage has been to a creative edge in UO fantastic.
I also have noticed I cant place any near my door anymore and any other wall on that side. This includes bear rugs or any other multi tile item. It counts on all floors as well.
In all my years in UO the DEV has given little notice of change till you hear people screaming they got baned for something another DEV said was fine and even liked and shared with the public. Perhaps the UO DEV need to take a page out of the Blizzard handbook with players in mind. This game is getting too retentive in reguards to what players want and use. Look a goza is not some evil tool... No house lockdowns are added, no cheats are done to make mass fortunes... its a house tool for beauty and design.
Blizzard gives players pretty much what they want in reason and they make $$$ hand over fist on players accounts some 12 million players. Hint UO DEV stop stranglulating your players to the point they leave in droves amd think what it would be like with the EA bosses if you could get 10% of the millions Blizzard has in players on the books! Your Bosses will laugh all the way to the board room for the next share holder meeting with a bank full to report.

 

[XLaCeDX]

This Guy was banned:

http://vboards.stratics.com/showthread.php?t=209415&highlight=Goza

Him:

http://vboards.stratics.com/showthread.php?t=206210&highlight=Goza

and here the official Word From EA

http://vboards.stratics.com/showthread.php?t=209533&highlight=Goza

We’ll discuss house design and gozamats: History and future

All it says nowhere does it say are now bannable...

I would like to add my buddy asked 2 devs before starting his Building and was just visited by the EMs and has been awarded Townstatus without having anyone tell him its bannable

The players in these links were not 'BANNED', they were suspended and or given warnings.

There IS a difference.

Suspensions/warnings are like telling a crawling baby "NO don't pull the lamp cord" (e-mail warning) and moving him/her out of harm's way (24 hours off UO), and hoping the baby will learn to NOT pull the lamp cord in future.

EA does try to keep it's subscribers, it does try to give everyone a chance to learn the rules by giving warnings and suspensions BEFORE they ban anyone.

Being 'banned' in UO means you have lost total control of your UO account for ever.

To be banned only for building goza floors you would have to be warned and suspended 2 or 3 times for building goza floors on the same account...

I actually own a castle that I built an entire goza floor on the top level, and, although I really only have one active neighbor behind me, it does seem to lag ME when I try to go inside (takes awhile to load).

I'd guess that goza floors, as cool as they are, create lag issues that do affect other players, and if they become bannable it is for a good reason, they affect other's gameplay adversely.

 

[Lady Aalia]

The players in these links were not 'BANNED', they were suspended and or given warnings.

There IS a difference.

Suspensions/warnings are like telling a crawling baby "NO don't pull the lamp cord" (e-mail warning) and moving him/her out of harm's way (24 hours off UO), and hoping the baby will learn to NOT pull the lamp cord in future.

EA does try to keep it's subscribers, it does try to give everyone a chance to learn the rules by giving warnings and suspensions BEFORE they ban anyone.

Being 'banned' in UO means you have lost total control of your UO account for ever.

To be banned only for building goza floors you would have to be warned and suspended 2 or 3 times for building goza floors on the same account...

I actually own a castle that I built an entire goza floor on the top level, and, although I really only have one active neighbor behind me, it does seem to lag ME when I try to go inside (takes awhile to load).

I'd guess that goza floors, as cool as they are, create lag issues that do affect other players, and if they become bannable it is for a good reason, they affect other's gameplay adversely.

yes they are Temp bans and they will leave a mark on your account.

 

[Lady_Rachel]

Sorry...

This was more like letting the baby play cat's cradle with the lamp cord for several months then whacking him for playing with it without a word.

All it takes is one person to page on your house, and you may receive a warning.
May..I said.
For who knows?
Right?

 

[Sarsmi]

If the feature is blocking someone elses house sign or vendors, I can see them asking the house owner to move or remove the items, but if the house is in the middle of nowhere and has no neighbors the who is getting harmed. One of the great features of UO has always been the ability to be creative, whether that has been through vendor backpack art, cut cloth furniture, three story waterfall with pool made from bandies, or any of the other ways players have taken ordinary items and turned them into things that made people stop and say "wow, how did you do that".

This is how I feel about it. As long as the gozas aren't loading up on anyone else's screen then they should be able to do what they want. If they are using floor tiles that make the house show the goza mats then it should only be an issue if someone's house sign or something that people need to be able to see are being blocked visually.

If you have to step onto someone else's property to get the gozas to display then nothing should be done to the home owner. I would just as soon leave all my homes private if that becomes some kind of method of getting other people banned.

It's not just gozas that can float high btw. We can stick *anything* up high that we want, and using special floor tiles can make anything in the house load up. I floated some brown dyed carpet tiles with some greenery and vegetables above a house to make it look like there was a nearby farm area. It's not gozas! Sigh.

 

[Cear Dallben Dragon]

I uo but this was weak

 

[Llewen]

What concerns me is there seems to be a complete disconnect between the devs and the game, and the GM's. The devs it appears have actually made an effort to play the game, and to get to know and understand game issues from the perspective of a player. They don't always get it right, but it at least appears that they have made some effort, and they are also at least making a show of paying attention to what their clients are telling them.

The GM's on the other hand seem to be completely disconnected from what is going on in the game. I don't know what their work environment is like, but it appears that the GM's are getting payed to do a job, they do their job, they go home, fire up the bbq, and want nothing to do with the game.

GM Whosit (to his significant other): "Please don't talke to me about UO, I have to deal with it for twelve hours at a time when I'm doing my stretch of shifts, and I really don't want to have to deal with it on my days off."

I understand people wanting to take a break from their work environment, but in the past the GM's were actually recruited from the ranks of players, so they understood the game they were trying to police. These days it appears that they are taking the rejects from Game Development BSc graduates (or whatever the degree du jour is in the industry) that are trying to break into the industry and can't get a job anywhere else. Or perhaps I am being optimistic and they are actually taking their recruits right out of high school, no secondary education or understanding of the industry required.

Whatever is the exact situation the GM's appear to know very little about UO, or it's history, or the people that play the game, or the real issues in the game. They appear to be working from some manual that they had to do their best to memorize, that gets updated every now and again by the devs, but they have little to no understanding of the game itself. It's just another IT call centre support job (and very likely the language that is the primary language of the servers they are supporting, isn't the language of their birth). And something tells me that the same GM's may be providing support for all the MMO's that EA is currently publishing...

 

[ingsmsico]

I personally think they should do an amnesty program. Anyone that wishes to have their old accounts unbanned can apply for it and if there were no serious reasons for the ban (duping for example) then the account should be unbanned.

This is a video game. not real life. if someone says a few bad words, or did something that is now legal, or was banned for something like raising a goza mat. they should be able to get unbanned

 

[Simon]

There have been some bans about "illigal housedesigns" in the last couple weeks, and while i usually applaud EA going after people abusing the system...

I have a huge problem with these!

Normally when something is against the TOS or rules, it is well known and announced.

...

Yeah, you are right.

I had an extra floor in my northwest Luna house.

- Was harming no one. House was even private. No stairs, so nothing visible from outside. Nice deco of course.

- Got a temp suspension on account. The GM moved everything into a wooden box. He forgot some items which are gone.

- I've paged for a GM. Canned response.

- Opened a thread in "Homes and Castle's" Forum and sent a message to "Ask the Dev's" about this issue.

- Got a PM from Mesanna to ask a GM about this issue.

- Paged another three times for a GM about this issue. Canned responses.

- Wrote again to three Dev's. No Response.

- Found the Dev Letter notice on UOHerals today.

- This sucks.

Whatever is the exact situation the GM's appear to know very little about UO, or it's history, or the people that play the game, or the real issues in the game.

It's like that since the last 5 years now.

 

[Crystal Canyon]

All the scripters and cheaters in UO and they are banning people because of gazas??? I've never seen anything so ridiculous in this game as this...not in 10years!

What the heck is going on? Are they trying to get rid of UO and they think this is an easy way to do it? Just tick everyone off to the point that they quit?

All I can say is WOW...just wow!

 

[Cal_Mythic]

Hi ... I'd like to emphasize that there has been no final word on any of this!
I used the term "discuss" for a very real reason ...

On occasion, I've asked several folks in the community or gone to shards and spoken to players on "hot button" topics in UO.

This is one of them ... I guess

I have gotten the history on gozamats, how they are used, what they are for, and their benefits (decorative) and their drawbacks (causing lag, used as a way to expand housing beyond the scope of what was intended).

As I understand it gozamats were placed in UO way before customized housing was a spark in Raph Koster's eye. So, as design pressed forward the teams did not account for that.

I agree that a sweeping change is unfair for those who have designed with them without warning. So we have discussed internally how to share game rules for future house design using gozamats.

As the game moves forward we have to be VERY careful what we place in the game. That is what's tough about a product that's been around for so long.

Also, this is not a BAN! This is a suspension. Ban is so ... just ... ew!! of a word. It's a warning to pull over .. HOWEVER ... I will grant we could do a better job of implementing and sharing what the rules are.

So for now please know there are two sides to every story .. sometimes 5 or 6 ... so for now, please make note that this is a topic for discussion ... no rules are going to be hammered down your collective throats.

I have seen some of the most beautiful user created content due to this feature in UO, so I don't want to destroy the beauty of what this game is for the sake a reflex action.



Be well ...

 

[Lady_Rachel]

My rememberence is that gaza mats came out with the Samuria Empire, long after custom houses were in game.

What about the folks that now have a mark against their accounts without any warning that the rules were changed?

 

[Cogniac]

As I understand it gozamats were placed in UO way before customized housing was a spark in Raph Koster's eye. So, as design pressed forward the teams did not account for that.

Wait...what?

Customized housing was introduced in Age of Shadows. Goza mats were introduced in Samurai Empire...after Age of Shadows.

Am I missing something here?

 

[Black Sun]

As I understand it gozamats were placed in UO way before customized housing was a spark in Raph Koster's eye. So, as design pressed forward the teams did not account for that.

Wait...what?

Customized housing was introduced in Age of Shadows. Goza mats were introduced in Samurai Empire...after Age of Shadows.

Am I missing something here?

They were. I left back before Samurai Empire was released, I had a custom house at that point. I think he either means the functionality of the mats was coded, but not released to us yet at that time. Although I could be wrong.

But custom housing did come before gozas from our perspective.

 

[Cal_Mythic]

Wait...what?

Customized housing was introduced in Age of Shadows. Goza mats were introduced in Samurai Empire...after Age of Shadows.

Am I missing something here?

Ack! No you are right ... I knew what I meant to say .. basically I'm saying that the introduction of the mats came after housing was introduced in UO, and devs did not account for the impact of the change ...

Thanks for helping me clear that up ...

It's our job that we move forward gracefully with any changes we make ...

- c

 

[Cogniac]

Furthermore, what the hell does customized housing have to do with anything? I can put down a classic house (such as a castle) and do tons of crazy goza mat nonsense on it. The house doesn't have to be custom to allow these actions.

I'm clearly missing more than I originally thought.

Edit: You ninja-posted on me. I guess this is no longer relevant.

 

[AirmidCecht]

I think this is another "feature" in the game that added more creativity and enjoyment for some....until it became abused. You cannot have a no fly zone in one city, Luna for example, and let other areas go unattended. If you are blocking a house view, say 1 to 2 tiles around with raised roof deco items, you are interfering with someone's game play. We have that same 1 tile rule so someone cannot place a house exactly next to mine where I cannot walk around the outside my home.

Keep the gozas and deco floaties, implement some important guidelines.

Just my 2 cents and a snapple *grins*

 

[Lady_Rachel]

Still not good form to mark someone's account for a rule not announced yet.

Any chance for amnesty here?

 

[Old Man of UO]

Furthermore, what the hell does customized housing have to do with anything? I can put down a classic house (such as a castle) and do tons of crazy goza mat nonsense on it. The house doesn't have to be custom to allow these actions.

I'm clearly missing more than I originally thought.

Edit: You ninja-posted on me. I guess this is no longer relevant.

No, your point is still valid. What I don't understand is what affect this has on anything. As you point out, we could take a castle and lockdown 4,000+ goza mats legally. It's only if I raise them off the floor that it's a problem??? The lockdown count is fixed... how does raising the mats increase lag?

 

[Lord GOD(GOD)]

Was anyone suspended for chopped add ons? Or was it all like extra floors and stuff?

 

[Old Man of UO]

Was anyone suspended for chopped add ons?

Are you referring to the Soul Forge?

 

[Liquid_Ape]

I have gotten the history on gozamats, how they are used, what they are for, and their benefits (decorative) and their drawbacks (causing lag, used as a way to expand housing beyond the scope of what was intended).

As I understand it gozamats were placed in UO way before customized housing was a spark in Raph Koster's eye. So, as design pressed forward the teams did not account for that.

February 11, 2003 - Custom Housing introduced with AOS
November 2, 2004 - Goza mats introduced with Samurai Empire

You might need to whip whomever is feeding you bad information.

 

[Lord GOD(GOD)]

Are you referring to the Soul Forge?

Not specifically but if its an add on (I don't use one I use the QSF) then sure.

Specifically I was referring to stone counters, fountains and forges.

 

[ingsmsico]

can someone post a screenshot of these problem houses?

 

[Beer_Cayse]

Could I suggest that for the time being, GMs NOT suspend/ban people but instruct?

Might get better reception all around.

 

[Kojak]

I love how they just out of the blue change their minds about stuff without telling anybody and then ban/suspend a bunch of people - it wouldn't be UO without it - hehe (keep up the good work - I especially liked how there was no hint whatsoever that it was coming - that's just world class - congrats)

 

[Cal_Mythic]

February 11, 2003 - Custom Housing introduced with AOS
November 2, 2004 - Goza mats introduced with Samurai Empire

You might need to whip whomever is feeding you bad information.

I have to whip myself then ... I knew the chronology, I relayed it poorly

 

[Old Man of UO]

I have to whip myself then ... I knew the chronology, I relayed it poorly

Don't worry Cal... the UHallers will help you with that...

 

[Petra Fyde]

I have seen some of the most beautiful user created content due to this feature in UO, so I don't want to destroy the beauty of what this game is for the sake a reflex action.



Be well ...

Too late. One of the most beautiful creations on any shard is destined to be torn down when the owner's suspension is served.


All that will be left is the memory and the pictures on Homes and Castles board. I think this is one of the saddest days in UO.

 

[Old Man of UO]

...
All that will be left is the memory and the pictures on Homes and Castles board. I think this is one of the saddest days in UO.

Petra, can you post a picture of this? I don't know which house you are referring to, but sure would like to see it. A picture is worth a thousand words.