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Classic shard.

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Guido_LS

Seasoned Veteran
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
Why did UO turn into the s@#& hole that it is today?

Because whiny players like every last one of you cried and cried till you got your way.

Every single last expansion since AOS has lost more and more players.

UO will be shut down in the next few years and it is solely the fault of players like yourselves.

For those of you wishing for a classic sever?
You will not get it. You will at most get an abortion put together by the same group of people who ruined UO to begin with.

Any classic server you get will be so heavily customized it will be a failure and add to the large list of disappointments to come out of EA.



To the dev team if you read this, You people should be ashamed of yourselves.

You are failures, this is not my opinion this is a fact backed up by the record losses of subscribers that have occurred under your leadership.

You people get paid a salary to come up with failures that have done nothing but lost your company money, you should all be ashamed of yourselves.



Enjoy your craptastic EA servers, I am going to go play November 1999 T2A on a shard larger than most production servers.
With the total exception of 1 - that's ONE - pay for play MMO, there are no established games out there that are holding on to subs. With the exception of 1 - that's ONE - they've all been bleeding subs. Some to the free browser games, some due to the craptastic economy, more than a few to that 1 - that's ONE - MMO that is still doing better than anyone would have imagined possible or likely.

In the meantime, all the *UO Killers* - those new games that have come out that were going to completely and utterly destroy UO by taking what was left of the die-hard fan base... they've all died a fairly miserable death.

What you are failing to understand, and that failure comes from NOT reading the entire thread, is that the OP admitted to making a mistake in the titling of the thread. The basic issue is, what constitutes classic? It does mean different things to different people. And no one person has the ability, nor the right, to just barge in and tell everyone that *THIS IS THE WAY IT WAS, AND THE WAY IT SHALL BE*.

That's why we, as a collective, including current players, past players, Trammies, reds, and by golly, even some old PK's, have been hammering out things like a time frame, and issues that may have existed during that time frame, and how to fix them NOW, so we don't end up with another Trammel/AoS server.

With the exception of 4-5 people, yourself included, everyone has conceded that there were indeed issues with pretty much every *classic* era prior to pub 16, which we ALL agree is off the table.

My final point to you, which may well be a wasted effort, if you are indeed rage quitting the topic -

Speaking for nobody but myself, DESPITE all the issues with UO... DESPITE AoS... DESPITE the gimplate of the week - I still play UO for one reason and one reason only - It's still the best game on the market, even as broken as it is. And I participate in this thread for one reason and one reason only - to try and convince the *CURRENT* development team, which had NOTHING to do with Pub 16 nor AoS, to create for the userbase a new server - a classic, pre-AoS, pre Pub 16 server, but to please do so in a fashion that does not recreate all the issues that lead to Trammel, and ultimately, a ****-poor Diablo clone.

And I'm sure I speak for the majority of people here in saying that we WELCOME any and all input, as long as it is done in a constructive, non-insulting manner. It doesn't matter when you played, what you played, if you play, if you don't, or anything else. All that matters is that we maintain a level of civility. Otherwise, the Stratics mods will cut this off like a foot loaded up with gangrene.

The ball, as they say, is in your court.
 
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Evlar

Guest
Most certainly well put Guido :)

On the whole, there's far more agreement, than disagreement in this thread. Although because there's some actual discussion and debate going on, I get the impression (certainly from those devoutly opposed to the classic shard concept), some feel this is more of a disjointed rant thread.

Differences of opinion are exactly that. If people are prepared to understand and accept differences of opinion, that works too right? The whole point of a thread like this, is to guage opinions from all angles and try to form some sort of common ground.
 
D

Derrick83

Guest
And what exactly do you think my "thought" is?

You think I wasn't enraged by what they did to UO?

You think I don't want the old playstyle back?

Do I want compromises...yes...because I want the shard to stay up.

There is no way to know what a Classic Shard will be like, but I can tell you...if you are willing to compromise NOTHING...then it will probably be very short lived.

I have said this before...and I will say it again for the benefit of all the new people here:

My personal preference would be a T2A shard with all the necessary bug fixes, a few things like skill/stat locks (I had to explain to one troll what that even meant after he blasted me because he thought I meant powerscrolls rolleyes:), and nothing else.

I just don't believe that is viable based on the responses I have read here, and seen in other threads outside of this one that were locked long before you guys got here.

This is not a new topic. A lot of these issues and ideas have been expressed before over the years.

It's good that Stratics sent out that email though. I think it is really important that people like you, Ray, and Kotu are involved in this discussion...but keep in mind, this discussion was going on long before you got here.

Despite what you might think of me...I have been playing UO since the beta, and I have been completely against Trammel, AoS, and all of the new content since they were first announced. I am about as "old school" as it gets.

I loved killing reds. That was all I did before UO:R, and I am looking forward to doing so again. That's why I say...if it were up to me, we'd just go with a straight T2A...or even Launch day server...I actually liked the time that led up to T2A!
Then you and I are on the same page. I played since Dec 25th 1997. This game was at its best before trammel.

The reason I do not think that making a classic shard with exact rules(or as close as they can emulate) will crash(as you propose it was at that time of UO) is because people have a different mindset. Back then it was "oh geez, I hate this being PK'd stuff.. this game would be so much better if their was no PvP action or I had the ability NOT to partake in it!" and then they got their wish and found out that the game just isnt the same. THOSE people are the ones that want the classic shard. As such, I think that anyone signing up for the classic shard(atleast the people who are really excited and are pushing for it to exist) know what it will be like with PKs and are prepared for it. I think their would be a lot less mindless griefing than you remember. The people who will do that have characters on production shards and will not want to take the time this era of UO requires to rebuild a whole account. Only the people who want the classic shard for its era will do so and people are NOT going to take MONTHS of their lives to build a red just to kill miners over and over. Now I do realize their will be some, but much less than when their was only 10 shards and 100,000 people on them and 30% being under 15 years old.

Basically I what I think is that the same problems you had then, you wont have now. I think a larger %% of the shards inhabitants are going to be PvP minded so noto and participating in killing reds who ARE griefing will be a much bigger part of this classic shard than what you remember of Atlantic(which happens to be the shard I played on too). As you stated before, PKing is not what your concerned about, its the griefing about being rez killed and "Drobe'd" thats the issue, and like I said, their will be much less on this server and it will be MUCH easier to find help now adays than in the original era.

Back in that era like you said.. people who liked PvP were few and far between. No one knew how to do it then and everyone(99% atleast) were scared to do it. The reds DID rule because they were the only ones who knew how to fight. Things are MUCH different now and PvP is an art form now and I really think that players will be able to take care of the PK problems if you just incorporate stat loss. Back in that era dieing for a red was rare because they had little competition from blues. Now adays the blues will be just as good as the reds can/will be and I think that dieing will be much more frequent and the statloss will be that much more a deterrent because of how much easier it will be to die.

Again just because we go back to the exact rules of that era does not mean necessarily we will get the same result. Why? Because we have already seen the other side of the fence. People will say "man wouldn't the game be better with this PvP crap!" and then they will say "no, it wont really.. we already tried that." The mindset of the people playing the game has changed and thus the result of where they shard will end up will be different too.

Making penalties that deter too much from it being fun and feasible to be red will swing the shard in the opposite direction. No reds = no pvp = a trammel version of T2A era.. no risk. All in all I think you want reds, but no griefing from stupid immature kids that play a red and rez kill and drobe and kill your miner all day etc.. and I really dont think that those situations will be as much of a problem on this shard with the differences in the way the population of this shard would play the game now.

Again not fighting with you as I do see your trying to do good. I am just trying to bring some new light to the table too. For a long time I PvP'd on atl and I was always a noto and killed red/greys so I am right there with you. I think with the mindset of the majority of the players going into this shard would make the difference.
 
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Morgana LeFay (PoV)

Guest
I appreciate your mature approach to the topic.

I wish that more of the new people would have realized that we were just throwing out ideas.

For me, I just want a Classic Shard. If it is pure T2A, so be it. I think, since the devs are likely going to have to either work backward...or code it from scratch...that it would be nice to get a few features like potion kegs, some stackables, etc.

And having given it some more thought, perhaps you are right Derrick. Starting out with the basic classic rules might be best. I just hope that everyone on the shard is open to the idea that penalties on PKs might have to increase as time goes on...if it is really out of balance.

I just know that we are likely to only get one chance at a Classic Shard, and I want to make sure it doesn't fail.

Anyway...hopefully the discussions can get back on track, and things will be a little less...hostile. I know that threads like this can bring out the worst in people, because it deals with things that people are very emotional about. I am no exception, that is for sure.
 

Dakkon Blackblade

Seasoned Veteran
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
I don't think it will get any better then what I was saying above, vote a publish up, with the addition I proposed that if it does start to go downhill due to rampant pk problems, we all agree that the other ideas can be visited as a last result rather than having it immediately closed down.

Again if I'm wrong and everyone loves it "the way it was" then all the better for everyone I suppose. :spider:
 
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newbi

Guest
so surprised to see the classic shard e-mail in my inbox. I think it's a great idea, although i am not sure if it's going to happen. what I would like is like almost everyone else - classic shard to be what T2A was.

Now i haven't played UO for 10 years now. but if i remembered correctly, "griefers" (as alot of you are worried about) wasn't much of an issue. to me, the "classic UO" had a great sense of community - i don't know about modern UO now since I dont play. Griefers was part of UO, a good part of it dare me say - it drives you to become the community - if you dont wanna get griefed? find a friend or 2 to hunt with you! join a guild! days back then, there are plenty of people who help. there's nothing more rewarding than getting killed by a pker and then have a friend to hunt him down and decapitate his head ;)

Also one of the main reasons for tam/fel (not sure if anyone mentioned) was the housing issue! it was ridiculously hard to get a small house, because partly 1) not enough land 2) duping gold issues, which inflated house prices. Remember server crashed once the patch went live? I assume, duping wont be an issue if they were to implement a new classic shard, and housing issue we can find a way to solve collectively, whether change some housing rules, decay time etc.. (does modern UO still have housing now?)

I am totally up for T2A if they r gonna have a classic server. its not going to be the most populated server. but it will give back some identity to UO, that it once had. and hopefully, when people out there start hearing this identity, they will want to try something "new" compare to the MMORPG nowadays.
 
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Rumpelstiltskin

Guest
I appreciate your mature approach to the topic.

I wish that more of the new people would have realized that we were just throwing out ideas.

For me, I just want a Classic Shard. If it is pure T2A, so be it. I think, since the devs are likely going to have to either work backward...or code it from scratch...that it would be nice to get a few features like potion kegs, some stackables, etc.

And having given it some more thought, perhaps you are right Derrick. Starting out with the basic classic rules might be best. I just hope that everyone on the shard is open to the idea that penalties on PKs might have to increase as time goes on...if it is really out of balance.

I just know that we are likely to only get one chance at a Classic Shard, and I want to make sure it doesn't fail.

Anyway...hopefully the discussions can get back on track, and things will be a little less...hostile. I know that threads like this can bring out the worst in people, because it deals with things that people are very emotional about. I am no exception, that is for sure.

Classic shard sounds soo fun, But one of the things that I like about online games, and Warcraft does this better than anyone is a publisher every 3-6 months that benefits or Nerfs a part of a players template,

So we are pretty much agreeing right now to make the game one rule set and stick to that rules for the rest of uo existence?

So then every week the devs need to read about how Tamers need bonded pets, or how Quarterstaffs need a reduction in damage, or how Stat loss for pks needs to be taken away because everyone is getting ganked, Or allow reds into guardzones.

Even if this shard does go active whos to say it will even be fun 12 months down the road when there is nothing new coming out, no new dungeons, no new pvp specs no new items...


Also since Siege and Test Center are east coast can we make Classic shard west coast thanks!!
 
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Antonio Cataneo

Guest
That's exactly my point. i'm very happy to find someone with the proper english skills to express it :). A very nice analisys of the whole matter. Fact is i got a little discouraged after reading the Cal_Mythic guy comments. It reminds me the vague comments on Duke Nukem Forever release back in 2002 :) , i hope they will make us part of their thinking. If they make the hype go up they will steal every Darkfall/Mortal Online/oldplayersplayingcrappygame/freeshard user and get them back here, but i'm sure they understand it too.

As for che last guy comments on "new content", well, i think that it's sure that implementing things such as pet bonding , which is from the trammel era, isn't a viable option. I dunno about proper "T2A style" components, but i would play in a T2A shard for 10 years without any patch. fact is the gameplay and the fun comes 80% from the community, i would just make new char / do different things with different guilds! This game is SO vast
 
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fantasy10k

Guest
Hello!

My name was Susan / Willor / Vor'Dus on the Europa shard many years ago.
There is thousands of people playing freeshards that is based before AoS (the expansion that killed UO)

I told my mates about this and they all seems to be eager to come back if you make a classic shard. Trust me when i say it, you will get thousands of people back. Im still in contact with around 50 Uo players and I know they are all up for playing the real Ultima Online again.

Thanks.





EDIT. I have been reading a few of the posts above me. That says it will only contain PvPers, I played a freeshard for 5 years or so without trammel and it has more Pvmers and crafters then PvPers. The game died because they added AoS and trammel. (I might add that trammel was good for Roleplaying though, nothing more).


Another EDIT : :), ALL of us want factions and in t2a there were no factions. Will you add faction anways because that was one of the good parts.
 

Llewen

Grand Inquisitor
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
Campaign Supporter
Ok, I have been keeping track of this thread, but I haven't read everyone's posts thoroughly, and generally when people start getting nasty, I lose interest. So if I just repeat what others have said, please accept my apologies ahead of time, and I will be re-emphasizing something I have already posted.

It seems to me that there is a fundamentally flawed assumption at the base of all this discussion about pk'ing. It appears to me that people in this thread actually think that a classic shard, or shards, are going to replace, and/or do away with the game that is played on the regular production shards. This is not going to happen folks.

It seems to me that you all are trying to think of ways to protect the "sheep" that are going to flock to the classic shard. In my opinion, this is not going to happen. A classic shard is going to be frequented primarily by people who have good memories of the "old days" in UO, and some of the curious, or those that get talked in to checking it out by friends.

The sheep that played UO in the old days, those tens of thousands of victims who gladly flocked to Trammel when it opened, are never going to make a classic shard their home, and for the most part they don't even exist anymore. You don't need to worry about trying to protect them, because they aren't going to make an appearance. You need to worry more about keeping your classic shard true to the era that so many have fond memories of.

If you start messing around with pvp switches, excessive penalties for pk'ing, and/or specialized pvp zones, you are going to destroy the very thing that will attract your target audience. Let me repeat myself. You don't need to worry about protecting the sheep, because there aren't going to be any sheep on a "classic" shard, any more than there are sheep on Siege Perilous.

There are so many options for the sheep out there that simply weren't there in the early years of UO's life. And I expect most of them are far more attractive to sheep than a "classic" era UO shard. All kinds of MMO's with pvp switches, dedicated arenas for pvp, servers with pvp rule sets, and servers without them.

I was a communications major in university, and one of the things that gets drummed into you in communications studies is that you need to understand your target audience. That is something that all of you advocating for a classic shard need to take to heart. Your target audience isn't the sheep.

Your target audience is people who have good memories of the pre-Trammel days in UO, their friends and a few that will have their curiosity piqued by what they have read of the old days in UO. Unlike the old days in UO most of these people are people who have likely been playing MMO's for at least ten years. These people are gamers that love pvp, or at the very least a world built around pvp, and who are far more sophisticated when it comes to their knowlege of computers, and MMO's than we all were back in those days. And they all have strong opinions.

These are likely people who were power gamers back in those days, but who now have a decade of experience to add on top of that. They all have computers and connections that are much more powerful and faster than what was available back then. These are not sheep, and they don't need to be protected from the big bad pk wolves.
 
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Evlar

Guest
Very true. With my current connection, my miner will be able to evade much more effectively than in the old days ;)

You've made some very good points there though Llewen. Such is why I would advocate the "suck it and see" approach, of gathering a definitive consensus on which era to run with, then solve any serious problems retrospectively, after launch.

For my own part it's the sum of all parts that appeals to me with a classic shard, as opposed to particular focus on individual aspects, to the n'th degree.

Mindful of that, I do believe that given the more "basic" nature of the shard, should changes be needed, I would have thought they wouldn't have as heavy an impact (side effects) on other game mechanics, as seems to be the case with the plethora of item-driven mechanics, "specials", enhanced skills, fully customised items through imbuing, etc...

I think you know what I mean, even if my logic is flawed. Because of the amount of content in the current game, even the simplest of adaptions can likely cause a domino effect of problems. I'm thinking that potentially, any of the backup plans we've suggested here, might be easier to implement if required, given the simpler nature of the game before?
 
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Rancid Wolf

Guest
Well said man, this thread is kind of crazy. Well, I hope it's understood that it is the same people bickering back and foward about the same issues over and over. I also hope that people who read this thread realise that they don't speak for the majority of UO players, especially the vets and people willing to come play a classic server.

Also, I played on a T2A Shard, there are ALOT of people who PvM and do other things besides Pking. I don't know why everyone thinks that the only form of PvP is going to be PKing. I mean, on the server I play, some blues dungeon crawl in groups of 4-6 and scare off most of the PKs that come their way.

One of the problems is a lot (not all) of the people posting here haven't played a T2A setting in 10 years and they talk like they played it yesterday. I'm sure we will see a few comments to my last line by the obvious but really I think this thread needs to become a little more constructive like it was at one point. Plenty of people play T2A (which is not a pvp/pk server) and deal with pks just fine. I mean, ya, maybe we could see statloss on death to keep some of the PvMers happy, but other then that I think the pk thing needs to be put to rest because it was part of the era and added to the risk factor when you played the game.

Also, someone said that players are too trammelized to play a classic server, well- maybe the players who still play current UO have become that way but there are plenty of us who arn't. Whoever suggested a PvP switch needs to really realise that classic uo was a sandbox game over everything else. It isn't hard to recall from PKs, seriously.
 
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Babble

Guest
One possibility to give pvp more direction would be a more involved Order/Chaos system - maybe with area to have under their control?

Maybe if you join an order guild and ask a special servant it will tell you where murderes are at the moment so they can be actively hunted.

For the chaos guild maybe some similar servant can tell them where those cute order fighters hang out?

Those are things UO always missed a bit, giving pvp a bit more direction than simple killing or cute items.
 
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fantasy10k

Guest
One possibility to give pvp more direction would be a more involved Order/Chaos system - maybe with area to have under their control?

Maybe if you join an order guild and ask a special servant it will tell you where murderes are at the moment so they can be actively hunted.

For the chaos guild maybe some similar servant can tell them where those cute order fighters hang out?

Those are things UO always missed a bit, giving pvp a bit more direction than simple killing or cute items.
I hope they add factions instead tbh.
 
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Xora

Guest
Llewen said it perfectly. This would be a nostalgia server. There will be very few sheep. Far too few for less skilled griefers/pvpers to find a small pond they can be the big fish in. On contrast there will be many more pvpers/griefers - at least for a while. The first couple weeks will be rough with a crowded server of players looking to relive prior days of bullying. But the game is old, the mechanics are simple, and the competition on new pvp servers is stiff so many will fade.

That fading is one reason not to make changes pre-release. See who is left when the dust settles and find out what they want. The other reason is what Llewen pointed out. Us old timers are looking for an exact match to what we remember. The only free shard I've been able to stomach is IPY because it was "almost right". All the others I've tried have had the core rule set, but enough was changed that the feel wasn't the same and I couldn't get myself to play it. Some, knowing they were catering to pvpers, put a lot of work into improving the pvp mechanics. Were they better? Probably, but it turned me off to the server. I'm not alone.

Rome wasn't built in a day. Bug fixes, tweaks, harmless upgrades, etc, can be determined after release and be the "progression" that a snapshot server like this one gets. It also makes more business sense as the influx, or lack thereof, to the server will determine the effort this classic shard is worth.
 
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Morgana LeFay (PoV)

Guest
Llewen:

You make some really valid points.

I think I might have been mistaken about the nature of a Classic Shard to begin with.

In my mind, I have pictured sort of a do-over for the game. Not the current shards, just the Classic Shard. I have pictured a shard where PvM'er, crafters, PvP'ers, RPs, and PKs coexist...each one doing what they did back in the original era.

But I have come to realize that this is not going to be the case. What you say above is probably more accurate, and I don't think penalties for PKs will change that.

I guess it is true what they say, you can't go back.

It makes me really sad, because I have always held the notion that if they would just make a Classic Shard, that people would understand what we had back then, because despite the problems it had, it was far better than what we have today. Some people blame AoS, some people blame Trammel...but the truth, the hard truth that I know I haven't wanted to accept, is that time is to blame. We can all bicker and argue and blame PKs, and PKs can blame "carebears", and in the end...what's done is done, and as they say...Camelot is no more.

I still support the idea of a Classic Shard, but I think the devs would be best to just go with a specific publish during the T2A era, and just be done with it.

It will be a close to 100% PvP shard. I don't see many current PvM'ers coming to a shard like that. But that's okay...because honestly, those people never wanted to play the same game that we wanted to play. Like Llewen said, they have choices now, and they are not going to choose a Classic Shard.

So...for all the PKs looking to come back, you should understand that what you are coming back to is going to be a much more PvP oriented environment...so don't count on griefing and preying on sheep.

And for all the Anti's out there...expect a lot of fighting! This shard is pretty much going to be Fel of the current era, just without AoS and the old rules, so there won't be anyone to protect. You will be PvPing just to be PvPing.


With that said, I am now doubtful how much I would actually enjoy the shard. I would play there, and I would probably never play 'new UO' again, but I know now that I won't get what I was looking for out of a Classic Shard either.

And I don't think anyone can do anything about it. Perhaps the time has come to just hang up the ol' thigh boots and move on.
 
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Xora

Guest
Morgana-

They can't recreate the experience of stepping into MMO gaming for the first time. We've all done it before. We know how this works. And knowing, in itself, eliminates a lot of the discovery and interaction that made it so special.

My prediction is that this server becomes a retirement home for old gamers. Something to remember the good old days and stay involved in a more casual setting than current games allow. After 12+ years of MMOs that doesn't sound like such a bad idea either.
 
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Antonio Cataneo

Guest
Morgana-

They can't recreate the experience of stepping into MMO gaming for the first time. We've all done it before. We know how this works. And knowing, in itself, eliminates a lot of the discovery and interaction that made it so special.

My prediction is that this server becomes a retirement home for old gamers. Something to remember the good old days and stay involved in a more casual setting than current games allow. After 12+ years of MMOs that doesn't sound like such a bad idea either.

You got a big point of the whole issue :) .
But i may also add, that i made a lot of NEWBIE friend join the freeshard im playing in, after they ignored WoW, and the new UO, because i taught them about the freedom involved, and the fun. So i think that even new player would come there. And RP'ers too, true RPers, not the ones talking in archaic english. So Morgana, i'm looking forward for the moment in which you will understand it will not be a full pvp shard, not at all, because if the really make a Classic T2A shard you will be surely happy of the results ;) .

Now i hope that the Dev's will understand the potential of such a project. Both in term of gameplay AND money. But it ha to be done with "style" . No pre-made chars, unique items for sell and so on. The shard, a good staff, and the subscription will skyrocket, i'm sure of it. Who wouldn't give a shot to the re issue of the Golden Age of MMORPG ? And i believe they will not only give a shot
 
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Evlar

Guest
I'm not so sure Morgana...

PvP was but a small part of the bigger whole of "classic" UO for me. I'm looking forward to the prospect. It would be my main, or only shard.

I will be doing all the things I enjoyed doing. A big part of that was crafting, simply exploring and interacting with other players.

Clearly a big part of a classic server, is likely to feature a strong portion of PvP, but I don't think it will be the "everything".

Dare I say it also, that potentially, it could be a good draw for role-players. We've mentioned the groups on different shards, who would create guilds, create player towns, play as different races such as orcs, hardy dungeon crawlers, guild and town warfare, lot's of things. All these things came from the imagination of the players.

I think there's plenty of space and scope for all play-styles...

...so chin up! :)
 
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Rumpelstiltskin

Guest
Llewen:

You make some really valid points.

I think I might have been mistaken about the nature of a Classic Shard to begin with.

In my mind, I have pictured sort of a do-over for the game. Not the current shards, just the Classic Shard. I have pictured a shard where PvM'er, crafters, PvP'ers, RPs, and PKs coexist...each one doing what they did back in the original era.

But I have come to realize that this is not going to be the case. What you say above is probably more accurate, and I don't think penalties for PKs will change that.

I guess it is true what they say, you can't go back.

It makes me really sad, because I have always held the notion that if they would just make a Classic Shard, that people would understand what we had back then, because despite the problems it had, it was far better than what we have today. Some people blame AoS, some people blame Trammel...but the truth, the hard truth that I know I haven't wanted to accept, is that time is to blame. We can all bicker and argue and blame PKs, and PKs can blame "carebears", and in the end...what's done is done, and as they say...Camelot is no more.

I still support the idea of a Classic Shard, but I think the devs would be best to just go with a specific publish during the T2A era, and just be done with it.

It will be a close to 100% PvP shard. I don't see many current PvM'ers coming to a shard like that. But that's okay...because honestly, those people never wanted to play the same game that we wanted to play. Like Llewen said, they have choices now, and they are not going to choose a Classic Shard.

So...for all the PKs looking to come back, you should understand that what you are coming back to is going to be a much more PvP oriented environment...so don't count on griefing and preying on sheep.

And for all the Anti's out there...expect a lot of fighting! This shard is pretty much going to be Fel of the current era, just without AoS and the old rules, so there won't be anyone to protect. You will be PvPing just to be PvPing.


With that said, I am now doubtful how much I would actually enjoy the shard. I would play there, and I would probably never play 'new UO' again, but I know now that I won't get what I was looking for out of a Classic Shard either.

And I don't think anyone can do anything about it. Perhaps the time has come to just hang up the ol' thigh boots and move on.
pks are not the people to worry about,

NOTOS who flag on your evs then pwn you, at least pks will take a stat loss when they die
 
M

Morgana LeFay (PoV)

Guest
I'm not so sure Morgana...

PvP was but a small part of the bigger whole of "classic" UO for me. I'm looking forward to the prospect. It would be my main, or only shard.

I will be doing all the things I enjoyed doing. A big part of that was crafting, simply exploring and interacting with other players.

Clearly a big part of a classic server, is likely to feature a strong portion of PvP, but I don't think it will be the "everything".

Dare I say it also, that potentially, it could be a good draw for role-players. We've mentioned the groups on different shards, who would create guilds, create player towns, play as different races such as orcs, hardy dungeon crawlers, guild and town warfare, lot's of things. All these things came from the imagination of the players.

I think there's plenty of space and scope for all play-styles...

...so chin up! :)
Maybe you are right.

I guess a big part of all of this for me is closure. I am probably letting too much of my personal business cloud my desire for a Classic Shard, but to me...I always sort of felt like we (the PoV and all the other guilds that dedicated themselves to making Sosaria a better world) lost in the end. Then, shortly after that, I had some life changing personal drama IRL, and then on top of that, my UO account was hacked and I lost everything I had ever owned in the game...including my guildstone, which is the one thing I miss the most...that was a piece of UO history. It was placed in Nov 1997. This all happened right after AoS launched. So I quit for about 8-10 months, and then some old friends talked me into coming back. I guess I have too much baggage to be objective about the subject of Classic UO.

I think if there is a Classic Shard, I will not take the same path. I will not pursue the way of the Protector this time. I really enjoyed playing my crafters as well (Forge Angel and Bill Blas). Maybe this time, *I* will be a PK...that's the most amazing thing about old school UO...your really could do and be anything you wanted.
 

Dakkon Blackblade

Seasoned Veteran
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
I think if there is a Classic Shard, I will not take the same path. I will not pursue the way of the Protector this time. I really enjoyed playing my crafters as well (Forge Angel and Bill Blas). Maybe this time, *I* will be a PK...that's the most amazing thing about old school UO...your really could do and be anything you wanted.
That was really the fun of the game wasn't it? not being forced into a single way of playing. I enjoyed a transition of my own where I started as a PK, then went Noto Pk with my dexxer, followed by a long stint doing order/chaos and towards the end of my days I started to enjoy a bit of role playing with guilds like OES, NCR, Stormhaven, and the entire TWP regency project that started as a really phenomenal RP concept only to get tarnished later by in fighting.

The point is that is the stuff that made UO great, for me it isn't about "finding the magic again" the magic was always there in the game play, it's true you can never recreate the exact feeling of logging in for the first time, but that to me is just a novelty in any event.

It's not about nostalgia for me, it's about playing the game at it's peak in terms of having fun, doing what you want to do, and having a real community to interact with.

All anyone can do right now is speculate, it's good in the sense that it fosters discussion, but nobody in this thread or elsewhere can tell you for certain what will happen and that's part of the intrigue, until it does happen you just don't know.
 
R

Renyard Foxenwyle

Guest
Maybe this time, *I* will be a PK...that's the most amazing thing about old school UO...your really could do and be anything you wanted.
That's what the game is all about, freedom of choice......uhh....just don't take it personally if I smack you with my hally for harassing noobs at the brit gy.
 
D

Derrick83

Guest
..what's done is done, and as they say...Camelot is no more.
Of all things please do not give up hope. My, and the others, post was not to discourage you. The difference is that this shards makeup is likely going to consist of 80% or more of the shard having 8+ years of UO experience. This means that, yes, likely everyone will know now how to be more self sufficient with their mules. People will know about PKs and how to fight, atleast a little. Also, I am not against making a few changes, for the better, but the way I propose its done is VIA in-game poll. They have an in-game pole system setup and their is no reason not to use it. Each account gets 1 vote on a matter. A message at the bottom of the screen when a issue is at hand where the devs are putting a proposal to a vote and everyone on the shard gets to decide if the change would fit the populations liking. "Should we implement potion kegs for easier potion storage?" Yes or No.. let the shard decide and then the majority is always happy.

Also, their will be community. This shard will likely have just as many people on it as any production shard. However the difference is space.. no trammel, no ish, tokonu etc... just good ole britania and lost lands. That being said the banks of every city will have lots of people at them and people can actually pick a home town and it be active again! Mine was moonglow. What I woudln't give to log in and see moonglow buzzing around again with a few people on the top of the bank etc.. What an awesome trip down memory lane.

The point is that while it may not be exactaly like you remember, it will be very similar. Much more similar than what you think of with production shards. Yes their will be much more PvP happening, but thats ok too. It will not be exclusively PvP, but much more than the era had. So yes, maybe a few additions. Maybe a few tweaks for some weapons/spells, but they would be voted on my a majority of the shard and the things universally deemed OP or broken BY US would be changed. It would not take but 1 dev a little time to do this.. most of the code is already in place for these things on production shards, and as you said, likely they will take existing code and just remove/disable the code/items/creatures/lands that are not in use in the T2A era.. so things like "potion kegs" and stuff would be a easy addition by adding them to vendor lists and crafting menus.

The nostalgic era we are all seeking will be satisfied, even if its only 95% the way it was or 95% the way we remember. 95% is better than 20% as current production shards are. The main difference is that the people playing these shards will be very very good players. Vets with 5-13 years of UO experience. It will be fun knowing everyone around you(well at least 90%) are people that are feeling the same sense of awe and excitement for this game that you are and that they appreciate this game on a different level than most people that came after AOS(pub 16) could ever imagine. THAT is what we are looking for.. not a T2A shard.. the nostalgic feeling we had when playing that game while it was great.. bring back that same great game and you bring back the same great feeling we had when we played it, even if it will be a little different. :)
 
E

Evlar

Guest

I think if there is a Classic Shard, I will not take the same path. I will not pursue the way of the Protector this time. I really enjoyed playing my crafters as well (Forge Angel and Bill Blas). Maybe this time, *I* will be a PK...that's the most amazing thing about old school UO...your really could do and be anything you wanted.
Don't you fret love... I'll be sat there next to the forge and anvil, with my smith at Brit Forge... I'll make another cozy wooden bench... I might even let you sit on it ;)

The heart of the matter for me, is the simplicity combined with the challenges that I enjoyed the most. All areas of the game were more fun for me back then.

It's the item-centric game that puts me entirely off. The feeling of need for a suit of every kind. I had a fledgeling tamer/mage back then and it was fun to run around with nothing other than some normal clothes, a few regs to help me get around in a hurry, plus whichever critter I could tame at that point. Now, it seems it's important for even a tamer to be suited up with all sorts of modifications.

Hell, I even see people with crafters wearing modded suits... crazy. Whatever was there wrong with a smith stood at the forge, wearing nothing other than his half-apron and a pair of boots! The heat from the forge was enough to keep his bum from getting chilly! :lol:
 

Llewen

Grand Inquisitor
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
Campaign Supporter
It makes me really sad, because I have always held the notion that if they would just make a Classic Shard, that people would understand what we had back then, because despite the problems it had, it was far better than what we have today. Some people blame AoS, some people blame Trammel...but the truth, the hard truth that I know I haven't wanted to accept, is that time is to blame. We can all bicker and argue and blame PKs, and PKs can blame "carebears", and in the end...what's done is done, and as they say...Camelot is no more.
I'm afraid that is what I've been trying to say all along, in different ways, but you have stated it most eloquently.

With that said, I am now doubtful how much I would actually enjoy the shard. I would play there, and I would probably never play 'new UO' again, but I know now that I won't get what I was looking for out of a Classic Shard either
Well, I wouldn't get discouraged if I were you. If you can accept that a classic shard really isn't going to be something old, it is going to be something new, you might find that you might actually enjoy this new thing, especially if this thread is any indication of the kind of passion many might bring to a classic shard.

It won't be the same as the old days, there is no chance of that, but I expect that there is a very good chance that, due to it's nature, and the nature of the players it will attract, it might well have a much stronger and cohesive community than that which is found on the regular production shards.

You might just find that while it might not be exactly what you are looking for, you might actually like what you find there.
 
C

Chiaki

Guest
Has OSI (or who is in charge of development nowadays?) expressed an interest in a classic shard, or is it still just dreaming from our side?
 

Dakkon Blackblade

Seasoned Veteran
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
Has OSI (or who is in charge of development nowadays?) expressed an interest in a classic shard, or is it still just dreaming from our side?
Our understanding as stated by Cal is that they are kicking the idea around, but right now addressing the cheating issues are the main priority, so we are on the back burner at the moment but that may change once they iron out the cheating problems.
 
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Morgana LeFay (PoV)

Guest
I made a small gaffe earlier...and before anyone calls me out on it, no...the PoV Guildstone was not placed in November 1997. The guild was founded in November but guildstones were not introduced until later. I forget the actual month they came into the game...but in the begining, people just named their characters and added their guild abbreviation to the end (in some cases...like LLTS...the GMs actually altered the character's paperdoll for them).
 
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Morgana LeFay (PoV)

Guest
Here's something else that some might find interesting...

...for all those that are calling for the 'original T2A' to be 'exact'...take a look at these patch notes. I am bolding a few that I think even the most hardcore purest would (should) agree to having included.

This is from May 25, 1999.


•Skills
◦Tinkering
■Tinkering will have a new menu with tabbed pages. We are testing out this menu style with this skill before adopting its use for all skills.
■"Make Last Item" is now an option on the tinkering menu. Choosing this will simply try to make the last tinker item you made.
■Tinker-crafted tools will now have durability based on the skill of the tinker who made the tool. In other words, a hammer made by a tinker with only 5 skill will last much less time than a hammer made by a grandmaster tinker.
■Scales for weighing items are now a craftable item. You can double-click the scales and target an item to get its weight. (We know this isn't real useful, but thought shops might like this item for decorative purposes).
■A new piece of art for tinkering tools will exist (and be craftable). It works exactly like the older piece of art, but is a lot easier to click on. The old piece of art will still be in use.
■Traps will no longer work on ballot boxes.
■Tinkered lockpicks will now stack correctly.
■Both sorts of tinker tools will become craftable.
■Tinkering is now difficulty-based. This means that some items will require a higher skill than others. Items you cannot make at all will not show up on your menus, and difficult items will fail more often than items that are easy for your skill level. You will get greater skill gains from making difficult items than easy ones.
◦Animal Taming and Animal Lore
■Pet "nerfing" when crossing server boundaries will be fixed. This actually affected all creatures throughout the game, so you may find some creatures being tougher than previously. All creatures have been fixed retroactively.
■"Death taming" is fixed. Dying while taming a creature will abort the taming process.
■Pet follow speed has been increased. *OMG...if you were a tamer before this...you know this one was an absolute MUST*
■You can now give all your pets orders by prefacing your order with "all." For example, saying, "all follow me" will make all your pets follow you. The list of commands this works with is:
■all follow me
■all guard me
■all come
■all stay
■all guard me
■all stop

■"Breath nerfing" (dragons and other firebeathing creatures losing their fire breath) should be fixed. This fix is retroactive for all existing creatures.
■Loyalty checks are now done for all pet commands (previously, certain commands did not check the pet's loyalty).
■Transfer and friending actually do two loyalty checks--one for the old owner and one for the new. Both must succeed for the order to be obeyed. *I think some might actually NOT want this, but others would...before this, almost anyone could use higher end pets even if they were not a tamer*
■Pet "orneriness" is now a much larger factor. The tougher an animal was to originally tame, the tougher it will be to control in general. The higher your taming skill and animal lore skills, the better able to control the animal you will be. Animal taming is more significant for this than animal lore is.
■The professional title for Animal Taming is now "Tamer" instead of "Ranger."
■The professional title for Animal Lore is now "Ranger" instead of "Scholar."
◦Fishing: The chance of pulling up messages in bottles will be increased somewhat.
◦Cooking: Cutting a stack of fish will now cut the entire stack at once.
◦Healing
■Healing delays have been adjusted:
■Healing someone else now takes 5 seconds. Healing yourself still takes 15 seconds.
■Curing poison on someone else now takes 6 seconds. Curing it on yourself still takes 18 seconds.
■The delay for resurrecting with the healing skill is now ten seconds.
◦The range for snooping will now be 1 tile.
◦Tailoring
■Bandages will now automatically stack when you make them. There will also only be one type created (instead of two types that do not stack together, like now).
■Using scissors on hides will make cut up leather which is lighter.
◦Magery

■The following beneficial spells will no longer be reflectable, and will not remove magic reflect if the target has it:
■Agility
■Strength
■Cunning
■Protection
■Bless
■Using the paralyze spell on an innocent will now make you eligible to receive a murder count. *I guess this one is up for debate...as it makes it harder for PKs*
■You will no longer be able to transfer ownership of summoned creatures. *LOL! Does anyone else remember people selling summoned horses to people??*
◦The armslore skill will be revised so that its messages will better match the current damage ranges of weapons.
◦Carpenters will be able to craft boards out of logs.
◦Line of sight checks will be added to the following skills, preventing their use through walls:
■Fishing
■Mining
■Provocation
◦Spam and overlong delays are being removed from the following skills:
■Alchemy
■Lumberjacking
■Mining
■Tailoring
■Blacksmithing
*Do you remember the godawful spam alchemy produced??*
•Other
◦Monster camps will no longer spawn partially in houses.
◦Ghosts will be able to use gates by double-clicking on them.
◦A problem with hues updating on objects is fixed. This manifested when you dyed clothing and it wouldn't change color until you moved it.
◦You will now be able to get different types of meat by carving corpses (eg, plucked birds or hams).
◦House bans of players will now be by account instead of by character. All current players you have in your ban lists will still be banned, but it will not automatically convert them to account bans--you will need to reban them for their whole account to be banned.
◦All house deeds (redeeded, bought, existing, new, whatever) will remain with the ghost when you die, and will not be stealable.
◦Attackers will now receive a message when their poisoned weapon poisons a victim.
◦NPC shopkeepers will now buy the following items:
■Warforks
■Sashes
■Hatchets
■Surcoats
◦The duration of strength and agility potions will increase to 2 minutes. *remember when they worked more like nightsight?? You would take one and it would instantly be gone!!*
◦Interior lockable doors will exist. Use of a house key on a door will allow you to rekey that door and will generate a new key for it. *This to me is an absolute MUST HAVE if anyone is going to run vendor houses*
◦The chance of monsters poisoning you when they hit has been tweaked down.
◦You will be able to dock your boat anywhere as long as the hold is empty. It will turn into a miniature boat when you do so. To do this, simply double-click the tillerman while you are not standing on the boat. *Remember having to abandon your boat because there was NO WHERE to park it?? :)
 
M

Morgana LeFay (PoV)

Guest
Here are some more from the Publish notes...

Sept 1, 1999 •The Reactive Armor spell will be reactivated.
When was it gone? I am sure we want that...right?

Sept 22, 1999

Smelting
•Armor and weapons can be smelted back into ingots.
•Items you wish to smelt must be in your back-pack.
•Smelting will be tied to the mining skill. The higher your skill in mining, the more ingots you will get back.
•The more wear and tear on an item, the less ingots it will return.
•Items purchased from an NPC will yield only one ingot when smelted.
•Smelted magic items will yield regular ingots.
•Smelting special metals will yield ingots of that color, with the exception of dyeable kite shields.
•Smelting dyeable kite shields will return regular ingots regardless of the color of the ingots used to make the shield.
•To smelt an item:
◦Double-click a smithing tool, such as a hammer.
◦The smithing window will open and contain a forge.
◦Double-clicking the forge will bring up a targeting cursor.
◦Clicking armor or a weapon that is in your backpack will smelt that item.
◦You will receive a number of ingots depending on the item itself, its wear and tear, and your mining skill.
I think we want smelting...yes? No?

Also from Sept 22, 1999

•Items placed in an armoire will no longer disappear.
I mean...a shard that you can put things into an armoire without it disappearing...well, that's just not "classic" :lol:
 
M

Morgana LeFay (PoV)

Guest
For the record:

23 Nov 1999 00:00:00 ESTPotion Kegs are designed to help alchemists store their potions without having to use up a lot of their lockdown slots.
Kegs were added on Nov 23, 1999.
 
M

Morgana LeFay (PoV)

Guest
February 23, 2000

Guild Stone Revisions
Guild Stones will be modified to enhance their functionality and efficiency. The system that controls Guild Stones has been modified to facilitate future enhancements. While most of these changes will be transparent to the players, there will also be some changes to the guild interface at the same time.

The War Menu
The War Menu will have a new option in the main menu of the Guild Stone. It can only be accessed by the Guild Master. The menu has the following options:
•Declare war by name
◦The Guild Master will be able to enter the name of the opposing guild.
◦The system will do a name lookup and try to pull a match or a close match.
◦The Guild Master will then be given a display of the matches and close matches to the name entered.
◦Choosing one of the names on this list will send a war invitation to that guild.
◦A guild may only have up to 12 wars declared and not accepted at any given time.
■Once a war is accepted by the other guild, the Guild Master may declare another war if he chooses to.
•Accept War invitations (if any exist)
◦A menu will be displayed allowing the Guild Master to accept any war invitations they currently have.
◦A guild many only have up to 12 wars declared on them and not accepted.
■If a 13th war is declared on the guild, the first invitation will be scrolled off the list.
■There is no limit to the total number of wars a guild may take part in.
•Decline War invitations (if any exist)
◦A menu will be displayed allowing the Guild Master to decline any war invitations they currently have.
•Rescind War declarations (if any exist)
◦A menu will be displayed allowing the Guild Master to take back any war invitations they sent to other guilds.
•Sue for peace (if any wars exist)
◦A menu will be displayed with all of the guilds the Guild Master's guild is currently at war with. The Guild Master can then choose to stop the war using this option.
Changing the Guild Type
Revisions will be made to guild stones to address issues with changing the guild type (Order, Chaos, Neutral). A warning window will also alert you if a guild type change is already in progress when you try to change the guild type again. This window will include:
•A message telling you how long you have to wait until the current change takes effect.
•The option to either accept or cancel the change request.
◦Clicking “accept” will bring up the menu listing the guild types.
◦Clicking “cancel” will bring you back to the guild stone menu and will not reset the current guild stone change timer.
Guild Stone Decay
Guild stones will decay in approximately one week if they are not in a house.
•Guild members will be messaged each time they log in if their stone is subject to decay.
•The guild master of a guild will need turn the guild stone into a "teleport stone" before it decays.
Recruiting
Guild Masters who recruit guild members will no longer have to accept them. If a Guild Master selects a member for candidacy, that member will be accepted automatically.

Auto-cleanup
Characters in guilds that no longer exist will now be "cleaned up" and able to join other guilds automatically.
For some reason, I had forgotten that guildstones did not always function like this.

This patch also brought in Moonstones :sad4:
 

Kaivan

Adventurer
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
Interesting note: EA doesn't have the full list of patch notes available anywhere online, if they have them at all. It's only available in one place at this point.
 
M

Morgana LeFay (PoV)

Guest
Last one I am going to post...I promise...but I have a point here, so stay with me.

April 28th, 2000

http://www.uoherald.com/news/news.php?newsid=600

That one is way too long to quote...but this is the publish that put UO:R in place.

Even from this, probably the most notorius publish ever along with Pub 16 and the publish that introduced AoS, there are certain things that were added that did not take away from the classic game...

Cure Potions
Cure potions will now cure poison based on the relative strength of the cure potion and the poison afflicting the character. A lesser cure will have virtually no chance of curing a deadly poisoned character, while a greater cure will cure greater poison much more often than not. All other cure and poison levels will scale accordingly.

New house Designs
For this next publish, there will be seven new house designs. To see a screenshot of a house, click its name below.

Small Stone Shop
•Approximate cost: 60,600 gold
•Max Secures: 3
•Max Total Lockdowns: 425
Small Marble Shop
•Approximate cost: 63,000 gold
•Max Secures: 3
•Max Total Lockdowns: 425
Small Tower
•Approximate cost: 88,500 gold
•Max Secures: 4
•Max Total Lockdowns: 580
Sandstone Patio House
•Approximate cost: 90,900 gold
•Max Secures: 6
•Max Total Lockdowns: 850
Two Story Log Cabin
•Approximate cost: 97,800 gold
•Max Secures: 8
•Max Total Lockdowns: 1100
Two Story Villa
•Approximate cost: 136,500 gold
•Max Secures: 8
•Max Total Lockdowns: 1100
Large Marble Patio House
•Approximate cost: 192,000 gold
•Max Secures: 10
•Max Total Lockdowns: 1370

Lumberjacking and Axes
The lumberjacking skill will provide a bonus to damage when the player is using one of the following axes. The higher the characters lumberjacking skill the more damage they will do up to a 25% bonus for 99.9 lumberjacking. At Grandmaster lumberjacking, the damage bonus is 35%.
•Axe
•Battle Axe
•Double Axe
•Executioner’s Axe
•Hatchet
•Large Battle Axe
•Two-handed Axe
Those are just some examples. Why did I think the lumberjack bonus was in like way before that??

Also, this is the publish that added the special attacks:

Two-handed Weapons
Any melee weapon that requires two hands to wield will gain a special attack. The type of special attack will depend on the type of weapon used. These special attacks will only work against player characters, not against monsters or animals.
•Mace Weapon: Crushing blow, a hit for double damage. Only applies to true maces, not staves.
•Sword Weapon: Concussion blow, victim’s intelligence is halved for 30 seconds. Note the effects of a concussion blow are not cumulative, once a target is the victim of a concussion blow, they cannot be hit in that manner again for 30 seconds.
•Fencing Weapon: Paralyzing blow, victim is paralyzed for 4 seconds. Once paralyzed, the victim cannot fight back (s/he wont auto-defend) or cast spells, however s/he can still use potions and bandages. The paralysis will not break by any means, even if the victim takes damage. Once paralyzed, the victim cannot be paralyzed again with another special attack until the paralysis wears off.
Upon a successful hit, there will be a small chance to inflict one of the special attacks. The base chance to inflict one of the special attacks is 20%. A high intelligence will give a small bonus towards the chance to execute a special attack up to a total chance of 30%.
I have seen a lot of people talking about how they miss these. I do to. With a 1998 T2A shard, we would not have those.
 
M

Morgana LeFay (PoV)

Guest
Interesting note: EA doesn't have the full list of patch notes available anywhere online, if they have them at all. It's only available in one place at this point.

I know, it sucks...they only go back to May 1999. They used to have all of them.

Anyone know of a good sources for the older patch notes??

It would be very interesting to compare certain things.
 

Kaivan

Adventurer
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
Their list of older patch notes can be found here, which ranges from the first live patch up to 10/1/98. Their set of current patch notes can be found on the UO Herald website and include patches from 5/25/99 on up to the most recent patch.

Unfortunately, the only place that houses a full list of the patch notes is on an unmentionable site.
 
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Morgana LeFay (PoV)

Guest
Trust me...I am not trying to derail the conversation, or to cause even more disagreement. I just wanted everyone to see that there are some bug fixes, and even some features, that came after 1998 that actually DID add to the game instead of ruining it.

I have seen lots of people suggest the pick a date method...but the problem with that method is that you lose certain things (like putting things in armoires without them disapprearing...and pet follow speed) that actually should have been in the game from the very begining.

I imagine that we could all read through all of the patch notes, and pick and choose dozens and dozens of different things, but I think the most common sense approach to this would be to ask the devs for T2A up to a certain date, and for them just to include the bug fixes and tweaks that made sense that didn't affect the combat system or the original intent of the game play...like Trammel, AoS, etc.

Maybe some of the new people that play on 'that' freeshard could offer some information, in a constructive way, that would shed some light on why some of the things in the later pre-UO:R patches were bad?? Without a list of publish notes before 99, it's hard to tell what exactly the devs changed from to get to those points.

If we don't get anything from the freeshard folks, I will hop back on there and check things out and report back. Maybe I will see Heartseeker there this time so he won't call me a liar again rolleyes:
 
S

SoulStealer A.O

Guest
Yeah, and that site has from 1997-2000. If you want it, I'll shoot you a pm with it
 
M

Morgana LeFay (PoV)

Guest
Their list of older patch notes can be found here, which ranges from the first live patch up to 10/1/98. Their set of current patch notes can be found on the UO Herald website and include patches from 5/25/99 on up to the most recent patch.

Unfortunately, the only place that houses a full list of the patch notes is on an unmentionable site.

Sweet!! Kick butt!!

I will also check out "that" site as well.
 
M

Morgana LeFay (PoV)

Guest
Hey, I already found something that current UO players will find funny! (also, I know this is not in place on 'that' freeshard either!!)

9.16.1998

Strong measures were put in place against 3rd party programs.
:lol::lol::lol:
 
M

Morgana LeFay (PoV)

Guest
Does anyone remember this actually being in game?!!

Recall changes in dungeons:
You can freely recall in and out of dungeons on the first level.
On the second level of dungeons, you can recall out with no problems, but gating in becomes difficult because of the mass of stone and earth preventing you from forming a clear mental picture of the destination.
Deeper into the dungeons, recall does not function at all.
Also, that was the publish that introduced Guildstones!

That was 2.12.1998

Thanks for posting that link Kaivan!!!
 

Kaivan

Adventurer
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
Trust me...I am not trying to derail the conversation, or to cause even more disagreement. I just wanted everyone to see that there are some bug fixes, and even some features, that came after 1998 that actually DID add to the game instead of ruining it.

I have seen lots of people suggest the pick a date method...but the problem with that method is that you lose certain things (like putting things in armoires without them disapprearing...and pet follow speed) that actually should have been in the game from the very begining.

I imagine that we could all read through all of the patch notes, and pick and choose dozens and dozens of different things, but I think the most common sense approach to this would be to ask the devs for T2A up to a certain date, and for them just to include the bug fixes and tweaks that made sense that didn't affect the combat system or the original intent of the game play...like Trammel, AoS, etc.

Maybe some of the new people that play on 'that' freeshard could offer some information, in a constructive way, that would shed some light on why some of the things in the later pre-UO:R patches were bad?? Without a list of publish notes before 99, it's hard to tell what exactly the devs changed from to get to those points.

If we don't get anything from the freeshard folks, I will hop back on there and check things out and report back. Maybe I will see Heartseeker there this time so he won't call me a liar again rolleyes:
There are far more bug fixes that were done after UOR as well. It would take quite some time to list them all as well.
 
M

Morgana LeFay (PoV)

Guest
Wow...this is a trip down memory lane!!

10.29.1997 - Bank boxes were added.

Also, Evil Mage Towers that take prisoners for Necromantic Rites??? (WTH!) I don't think that even went live. Not that I ever saw!

11.5.1997 - the "AllNames" macro was added...I saw some folks debating that earlier in the thread.

Trivia Question:

When did Dragons become aggressive? At one point, you could walk right up to one and tame it. Demons were the same way, but you couldn't tame them of course.
 
M

Morgana LeFay (PoV)

Guest
There are far more bug fixes that were done after UOR as well. It would take quite some time to list them all as well.
I don't think it is necessary.

Actually, I was mostly making a point...but now that I have started reading all of these, its like a floodgate of memories coming back! Very cool!


Anyway, I think most classic fans (outside of a few hardcore purists) understand that bugs were found and fixed after any date that would qualify as a 'Classic' period.

It really depends on what we want...and what the devs can do.

I haven't asked him to yet, but at this point, I would really, really, like a little input from Cal.

You don't have to commit to anything...and nothing you say can or will be used against you at a later date :)

But the questions is:

What exactly is possible for you guys? I mean, were we misinformed before...do you guys actually have old code? Would this have to be a from the ground up project? Could you even do it using the existing code and working backward?

It seems rather daft to list everything out change by change, bug fix by bug fix, if the only feasible method is to work backward. If that is the case, then bug fixes are already there...and are therefore a moot point. (unless of course taking things out/hiding things will break the code somewhere...which I know very well is a possibility).
 
M

Morgana LeFay (PoV)

Guest
There's so much that could be said about this, but it can't be voiced here.
Oh, duh! ... the FoA story arch *whacks self upside head*

I guess I didn't look closely enough at the dates.

(btw...Ahu will be happy to post several pages on this topic for us)
 

Kaivan

Adventurer
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
Oh, duh! ... the FoA story arch *whacks self upside head*

I guess I didn't look closely enough at the dates.
Actually, it has nothing to do with that, but has everything to do with why blood tiles were even in the game as an item that players could collect.
 
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