A greater discussion about over-powered archers

[Winker]

A few random notes that everyone is already aware of..



Archers do not have access to Bleed, Disarm, and various other Weapon Specials.

Archers are more Dex reliant than any other dexxer and *Need* to drink Agi pots.

Only two bows can swing at 1.25. Neither have very good PvP Specials, and are both very weak as far as damage.

Archers need to dedicate alot more "Weight" and "Properties" on their gear for SSI in order to get 1.5 Swing Speed. (Which is not max)

Archers do not have access to Parry.

Archers do not have access to Shields.

4/6 Chiv is much easier to run on a Non archer due to FC 1 Shields.

Archers need to use "Weight" and "Properties" on their Bows for Balanced, where as 1 Handed weapons can add an extra Property such as Hit Lower attack.. Which reduces the Effectiveness of Any Dexxer.

If archers want Balanced they must also sacrifice something such as DI on their weapons.. Meaning they must add it elsewhere.. Unlike other Dexxers.

Archers must run Lower INT or STR meaning less Overall HP or Mana.. Which must also be added to their gear, which other dexxers do not.

Archers require arrows or Bolts.

Archers cannot take advantage of UBWS property, which limits the type of specials, damages, and swing speeds of their attacks.

Yes nice post.

 

[A Rev]

Yes nice post.

Not really seeing as pretty much all of it is negated by the suit and makese the template even more powerful.

Add fencing for disarm and bleed.

180stam and 45SSI (very easy to get an maintain max mods) makes comps swing very fast!

a whole 1/4 of a second makes no difference when your hitting for almost twice as much as anyone else.

4/6 chiv is just as easy to get on archers as it is for bushido.

Most archers run well above 45 hci to negate HLA.

DI is not imperitave on the suit but even if it easy very easily made up on the suit (50 from the jewels, even with +5 ssi, 20tali...25from gloves if needed puts you 5% below cap)

The next bit is just ridiculous!!!

Archers sacrifice nothing...i know and have a built archer with 140ish hp 190stam and around 80ish mana. What exactly are they sacraficing??

Archers can use UBWS

 

[Merion]

Great, another "Archers are to powerful" whine thread... Archers are fine, PvP ist balanced, all is good. Just learn to play your mages. A good necro/myst/mage can kill an archer anytime. In fact, I do so on a regular basis.

 

[Mistura]

Great, another "Archers are to powerful" whine thread... Archers are fine, PvP ist balanced, all is good. Just learn to play your mages. A good necro/myst/mage can kill an archer anytime. In fact, I do so on a regular basis.

Nice post where you actually said absolutely nothing but i guess

 

[Angel121]

3 suggestions I've thought of is as follows,

1. A Timer on Using pots exclusivly for balanced weapons. a 20-30 second timer ticks as soon as the Pot is taken and no other pot could be consumed. It's not a PvE nerf as most fights are shorter or if they are longer they are designed for sustained damage/heal beyond chugging.

2. To a lesser extent but added into this would be that maybe a reset on the swing timer when casting spells/buffs on oneself.

3. Stamina reduction on succesful spell hit. taken at a large percentage 15-20% of the current stamina. that way sffecting the overall SSI and chance to chase/run. or work on circles.
1-3 =5-10%
4-6 = 15-20%
7-8 = 25-30%
Stamina reduction would be based on current stamina not max stamina so as not to just smack 3-4 fs's to 0 stamina. Tacking on to point 1 of the options a good archer would have to time his refresh.

 

[Freelsy]

Archers can use UBWS

No they can't...

 

[Freelsy]

Most archers run well above 45 hci to negate HLA.

I may be out of the loop, but please explain to me how an archer is to achieve 180 stam with 60 ssi and maintain enough HCI to negate the effects of HLA. That's something along the lines of 70 HCI, is it not?

 

[SUPRsalad]

Before imbueing i had all balanced bows and a sickning comp bow that unfortunately wasnt balanced, i just simply switched to another bow if i needed to use a pot, wam bam done, switch back afterwords. i have redone all my suits with imbueing, my mage suits for mage weapon and wrestling are both insanely nice, all 70s corpse proof, 10-14mr, 15 sdi, 100lrc, 40 lmc, 70 dci and 50 enhance potions..... my archer has 182 stamina with hld glasses, max hci/dci 40 lmc 50 enhance pots, and i even squeaked in a 5ssi ring for kicks... so i use this crap as much as the next person but...


I think pots and ep should have little to no effect without having gm alchemy. Sure i definitly believe an archer can fit gm alchemy into his template no problem, i think alot of template could, but this solves alot of issues imho. take the stealth ninja bushido deathstriker...most of them only heal with pots...




Also, balandced bows are a very touchy subject because archer, unlike other melee skills, does not have a 1 handed weapon u can switch to. If im running around with a hally in my hand and want to sue a pot, nothing stops me from switching to a bokuto and having at it without sacrificing offense/defense. Pots are not the only problem, for instance, because an archer is a ranged melee skill they do not entirely need parrying in any way. that frees up a skill slot, my archer runs archery and fencing...because i can. this is why i say the alchemy would fit into an archer template simply. I honestly do not think there is a giant problem with archers otuside of the DPS and like another poster said, the amount any dexer in general can heal vs a mage. Sure if you play a mage enough you can find ways around it, but if you get disrupted, or use protection, you run the risk of going into defense mode quickly and not being able to recover. Maybe hit velocity should be considered a hit spell, beefed up a bit to match the others, and not be able to stack with other hit spells... maybe mortal should be busted up a bit, maybe moving shot should take more of a penalty. Obviously now it is very simple to beef up your suit to swing a comp bow at 1.5s and laugh at your opposition, maybe the one pot that needs a tiemr on it is total refresh, i can go through like 50 of these in a 10minute fight on my archer trying to keep my max swing up.

These are REALLY good ideas. Can we expand on this a little bit?
EXACTLY how much time do you think they should put on a refresh pot. I vote 10-15 seconds.

 

[SUPRsalad]

Great, another "Archers are to powerful" whine thread... Archers are fine, PvP ist balanced, all is good. Just learn to play your mages. A good necro/myst/mage can kill an archer anytime. In fact, I do so on a regular basis.

So... Finally a new 'against' arugment:

Build a mystic scribler.. We all have them. Not sure what kind of archers YOU are up against on YOUR shard, but here on OUR shard, that don't fly too well...
You should try that on pac, see how it works out for you..

 

[Damien Softstep]

Great, another "Archers are to powerful" whine thread... Archers are fine, PvP ist balanced, all is good. Just learn to play your mages. A good necro/myst/mage can kill an archer anytime. In fact, I do so on a regular basis.

So... Finally a new 'against' arugment:

Build a mystic scribler.. We all have them. Not sure what kind of archers YOU are up against on YOUR shard, but here on OUR shard, that don't fly too well...
You should try that on pac, see how it works out for you..

Not too mention that necro/myst/mage BETTER have parry or its flatline for you...

 

[SUPRsalad]

So.... I guess what I'm seeing here is that, you don't think theres a problem with archers.. Clearly you missed the point of this thread. Chad is basically the best mage I know, hands down.. If CHAD has a hard time with some trammelite-gone-pvp-archer, chances are, theres a problem.. And there is a problem. No question about it. Also, judging by your first post, its also very clear to us that you aren't really into pvp much, so this isn't really your issue. This is not a 'yay or nay' thread, its a discussion about what should be done about a problem that does exist While all those things you listed are for the most part, true, you're still missing the point. Do you have a character on pac? I'm not trying to call you out here, but if you REALLY want to engage in this conversation, I can set you up with one of our archers, and you can see how well any player can overcome the 'issues' you listed for us. (no, I'm totally serious, I think it would be enlightening for you.)

 

[A Rev]

I may be out of the loop, but please explain to me how an archer is to achieve 180 stam with 60 ssi and maintain enough HCI to negate the effects of HLA. That's something along the lines of 70 HCI, is it not?

You dont need 60SSI, the 45 from a weapon and Ring is enough to swing most bows...save the x-bows to swing at 1.5s. I know a few archers who use the 50ssi invasion bows and 5 on the ring. But if you really needed to boost it. You can have the 45 from the weapon 5 from the ring and 10 from the daimos [imbued to have +8stam].

You have 15hci/dci/25ep/DI/ssi on the ring
15hci/dci/25ep/DI/LMC on the brace
10hci glads
10talisman
20on the legs [imbued to have mage armour + if memory serves another mod can be added]

Then all other pieces are imbued to build resists, have +8stam/int and the lmc your missing...

That will give you 70HCI and +40stam

Simple.

 

[SUPRsalad]

Not too mention that necro/myst/mage BETTER have parry or its flatline for you...

I was the FIRST person on my shard to run that template, and dude I LOOOOOOVEd that template. Its true, if I 'got the drop' on almost any template, and got off a combo before they could get off screen, I could drop nearly anyone. However, even with 70 dci, he was still pretty much cannon-fodder to anyone running an archer.

On a side note: I had three of these templates on three different shards. Pac, Baja, Origin. Steve Zissou (the original), Uncle Ben, and Bazooka Joe. I had to drop necro and scribe in all three cases to pick up ninjitsu so I could get away from the totally rampant dismounts

 

[SUPRsalad]

3 suggestions I've thought of is as follows,

1. A Timer on Using pots exclusivly for balanced weapons. a 20-30 second timer ticks as soon as the Pot is taken and no other pot could be consumed. It's not a PvE nerf as most fights are shorter or if they are longer they are designed for sustained damage/heal beyond chugging.

2. To a lesser extent but added into this would be that maybe a reset on the swing timer when casting spells/buffs on oneself.

3. Stamina reduction on succesful spell hit. taken at a large percentage 15-20% of the current stamina. that way sffecting the overall SSI and chance to chase/run. or work on circles.
1-3 =5-10%
4-6 = 15-20%
7-8 = 25-30%
Stamina reduction would be based on current stamina not max stamina so as not to just smack 3-4 fs's to 0 stamina. Tacking on to point 1 of the options a good archer would have to time his refresh.

1. this idea is being tossed around. I rather like it. We need to refine it.
2. I'm not sure what you mean.
3. Hmmm.. I think you may be pushing it. The idea here is to 'balance' pvp, not make mages the most powerful thing in the world.

 

[Damien Softstep]

Im really sorry to do this but this is gonna be the truth...thru the years EA has put overpowered/unbalanced templates into the game thru all the years and 90% of the people run to those templates...the problem is those templates dont get nerfed for years and considering how the dev team communicates with us now well you get my point...so the best thing to do right now in my opinion if your tired of archers to run parry/tamers...this game is rock,paper,scissors and always will be rock,paper,scissors...

We need a dev that actually pvps or atleast understands pvp...

And yes i agree archers are overpowered...

 

[Damien Softstep]

I was the FIRST person on my shard to run that template, and dude I LOOOOOOVEd that template. Its true, if I 'got the drop' on almost any template, and got off a combo before they could get off screen, I could drop nearly anyone. However, even with 70 dci, he was still pretty much cannon-fodder to anyone running an archer.

On a side note: I had three of these templates on three different shards. Pac, Baja, Origin. Steve Zissou (the original), Uncle Ben, and Bazooka Joe. I had to drop necro and scribe in all three cases to pick up ninjitsu so I could get away from the totally rampant dismounts

I agree dismounts ruined PvP too...yes its a mandatory you have to have ninjitsu on your template because of dismounts...

 

[dukarlo]

Ive played mages for pretty much the last few years until I made an archer a couple weeks ago. The mage is clearly much more difficult to play and kill other players with. Archery by itself is very powerful but add in bush, fencing, taming etc and it becomes even more powerful. Its as if having multiple offensive templates on 1 character. If an archer does not want to die he already has a headstart for running since the attack is ranged to begin with. Damage per second with 100 plus mana 180 plus stamina,lmc mr and hit spell(s) and even med on the template make for almost endless specials. Archery wernt from being a piece of the pie to the whole pie in recent years. I dont feel templates that are entirely dependant on great dice rolls from uber gear(which is quite easy to make for a pvper nowadays) should be the be all end all pvp character.

1 the stop time to shoot is WAY to fast
2 its not the high damage hits that are the problem, its the speed at which the shots are fired over and over
3 balanced property was a huge mistake as it allows archers to keep up the crazy stamina at all times
4 stats which are the basis for all characters are to easy to accumulate on suits and are much more of an advantage to an archer than say a mage
5 archers never have to stop
6 Theres nothing more annoying than running archers accept running speedhacking archers. Fix the speedhacks and client modding
7 Reinstate mount fatigue, archer centered pvp has turned uo pvp into one big game of pac man. There was a time in this game when people that run the way they do nowadays would have been ridiculed by pvpers but unfortunately it has become the norm.

 

[Damien Softstep]

Honestly whoever decided to have a "balanced" property needs to be punched in the neck...the whole "property" needs to be deleted from UO...

 

[SUPRsalad]

Ive played mages for pretty much the last few years until I made an archer a couple weeks ago. The mage is clearly much more difficult to play and kill other players with. Archery by itself is very powerful but add in bush, fencing, taming etc and it becomes even more powerful. Its as if having multiple offensive templates on 1 character. If an archer does not want to die he already has a headstart for running since the attack is ranged to begin with. Damage per second with 100 plus mana 180 plus stamina,lmc mr and hit spell(s) and even med on the template make for almost endless specials. Archery wernt from being a piece of the pie to the whole pie in recent years. I dont feel templates that are entirely dependant on great dice rolls from uber gear(which is quite easy to make for a pvper nowadays) should be the be all end all pvp character.

1 the stop time to shoot is WAY to fast
2 its not the high damage hits that are the problem, its the speed at which the shots are fired over and over
3 balanced property was a huge mistake as it allows archers to keep up the crazy stamina at all times
4 stats which are the basis for all characters are to easy to accumulate on suits and are much more of an advantage to an archer than say a mage
5 archers never have to stop
6 Theres nothing more annoying than running archers accept running speedhacking archers. Fix the speedhacks and client modding
7 Reinstate mount fatigue, archer centered pvp has turned uo pvp into one big game of pac man

Outstanding post! I've got to run to work now, but I'd just like to say that I am very pleased at the turn-out of this thread. I think if we can keep things moving in a positive direction, we could potentially have SOLID ideas to go to a formal petition! Then MAYBE they might do something about it someday.

Is it as un-surprising to everyone else as it is to me, that we REALLY haven't heard anyone produce valid evidence contrary to what we are saying? (except Vaelix, which I really appreciated) Although your data was from a 'non-pvp' perspective, and much of it is very arguable, I do appreciate your feedback. It wasn't really that it was 'false' per se, its just that it was more of a 'these are the challenges you face when making an archer' and not a 'this is why you should not nerf archery'. . There are challenges with any template that can be numerated like you did.

Anyways. Thank you all for being so constructive. We've got some really good ideas floating around. I'll try to make a solid list of them when I get home tonight if I have time, and we can then start REALLY looking into them and refining them into SOLID solutions for the problem at hand.

again, thank you all, and please don't quit thinking. I think one of the main reasons the devs NEVER do anything about pvp-problems, is that we, the pvp community as a whole, are generally regarded as a bunch of bastardized and hateful clan of back-biting dogs, that can't cooperate to produce a single shread of a valid point. Lets try to change this trend! Save the back-biting and hate for the field. Lets get something done here, for once.

 

[Kaleb]

Some need to understand, Sure Dexers have one handed weapons, But they have to hit from one tile away (more like being on top of your target) where as an archer can hit from up to 10 tiles away! If any archery weapon should be one handed it should be the repeater, or the x-bow (not heavy). Balanced property should be looked at. Plus other mods that appear on bows that already have hit effect like previous posters have mentioned.

If Archery were to stay as is then look at:
Special Moves should be unaffected by LMC property. And only serve casting skills like , Chiv, Bush, Necro, Mystic, Magery, Ninjitsu, Weaving.

Back in the day when HP was developed, Damage was not as severe as it is now I suggest they tweak Str/HP to give up to 2x the hp that it does now.


Another would be to unnerf some things, up to 3/6 casting for mages or adjust casting times, undo the Special move toggle, tactics nerf,

Thing about archers is currently they are abusing a broken system, Running shot was supposed to cut the archers accuracy, coupled with LmC they can damn near hit specials nonstop. Shooting on the run should cut accuracy by up to 30%. Just being mounted should also cut accuracy, unless the archer stops for a couple seconds.

Or the easy route, Scrap running shot and put other specials like concussion blow on par with AI.

and most important is to look at the Resisting spells skill, most template problems these days are due to not needing the skill, Items replace what this skill does revert the skill back to its original function.

I would like to see something done. most of my UO play time is in a PvP setting, the game has not been fun to me in months due to imbalances in UO PVP, they have got there Item wise, now its time to look at skills, specials, spells. Months ago they said they were workin at getting a PvP balance pass going but that has not happened and I am losing faith.

 

[Damien Softstep]

are generally regarded as a bunch of bastardized and hateful clan of back-biting dogs

 

[Winker]

Great, another "Archers are to powerful" whine thread... Archers are fine, PvP ist balanced, all is good. Just learn to play your mages. A good necro/myst/mage can kill an archer anytime. In fact, I do so on a regular basis.

Yes your correct, yet another thread, and look its all the same people crying time and time again.

Same old faces saying the same old things.

120 parry + 70 DCI stops most archers in their tracks. Throw in some blood oath, mages weapons and few well placed combos...bang one dead archer

Spell casters have a choice to make, looks like most of these spell casters just dont want to try and addapt. But there are a few posting here who admit that they can kill an archer 1v1. The rest just dont want to/or are unable to move on.

 

[A Rev]

120 parry + 70 DCI stops most archers in their tracks. Throw in some blood oath, mages weapons and few well placed combos...bang one dead archer

.

Please explain how you would work this template??

Please explain to all of us how to run a wrestle/parry/necro mage?

Then please enlighten us with what gear you would use to achieve 70DCI 100%lrc 40%lmc 12mr 25HPI? [these are near enough the basics of any mage temp.]

I have shown you how to make overpowered archer suits...and how much damage an archer can output...please enlighten us with your expertise in the mage pvp area?

 

[SUPRsalad]

Please explain how you would work this template??

Please explain to all of us how to run a wrestle/parry/necro mage?

Then please enlighten us with what gear you would use to achieve 70DCI 100%lrc 40%lmc 12mr 25HPI? [these are near enough the basics of any mage temp.]

I have shown you how to make overpowered archer suits...and how much damage an archer can output...please enlighten us with your expertise in the mage pvp area?

My thoughts exactly.. I don't really think this poster knows what they are talking about. The way I see it you've got the four core mage skills:
mage, eval, resist, med.
that leaves 240 pts to work with.
Parry/wrestle fills it up.. Sure you could cut enough out of that picture to run 60 necro, but what good would it be without gm inscribe?

Look.. A parry/wrestle mage WILL keep you alive against todays 'imbue-able archers', but killing them? On THAT template? Out of the question. What are you going to do? Curse, explo, fs? They'll eat that apple before you can say 'Vas'. . Even if they don't, they're still going to fizzle you before you can say 'Kal'. . .

The people that claim to kill archers 1v1, are either a. lying. or b. playing against someone that has no idea how to work an archer. . . True, the mystic/scribe/necro mage, is a powerful kill template.. I have three of them. TRUE, I have killed many archers, but in a 1v1 confrontation? I'm running.. No questions asked.

Archer/mage is also a powerful kill template, capable of insta-killing almost anyone, but the lack of dci speaks for itself here..

Listen.. Winker.. You're talking to a group of VERY experienced players. Half-cocked ideas don't fly here. I keep saying the same thing: 'specificity is at the heart of good conversation' . .-(I think einstein said that)
Now.. Let us use parry withOUT 80 dex, and WITHOUT wrestling, and you might be on to something.. I suggest coming up with some specific ideas in regard to this before you post again..

oh, & btw: your dog is awesome-sauce. Shepard = greatest dog ever.

In response to the 'great another archery whine thread':

Yes.. another thread about archery. What does this tell you?
By your own statement, logically, you are basically admitting that there is a problem with archery. . . You don't think its a problem? Tell us why. Hint: Try using an argument that hasn't been used, and thoroughly dispelled already.. THAT is my challenge to YOU, good sir..

Just another 'archer' trying to defend his un-earned pwnage..

 

[Zhakarin]

The nerf regarding special move mana cost for humans in the latest publish may help with the chaining of AI/specials, we'll have to give it some time to see if it's enough adjustment based on the templates in use today. I'd like to see ninjitsu removed from the list of skills that combine for the bonus, as its not really much of a combat/offense skill these days. Archers can't use parry and most probably don't run around with 120 bush either, so this change will hit archers harder than other dexers.

Regarding moving shot, just take HCI out of it. That special was supposed to suffer from a HCI penalty anyway, and it'd be easy to code I'd think without effecting anything else. Toggle moving shot = no HCI.

If we're trying to balance PvP, then the changes need to be tiny. The large temp-killing nerfs only serve to move the advantage around and we'll just be complaining about some other class/template in a few months if we don't take the fine-tuning approach.

 

[Damien Softstep]

100 necro
100 ss
100 magery+20 from crystalline ring = 120 magery
120 eval
100 parry
100 inscribe
100 anat


Am i missing something?

Human...20 med and focus base...

Faction item MR FTW?
-HPI 4,HPR 2,LMC 8%,MI 8,MR 2 (imbued armor,per piece)

***DISCLAIMER THIS TEMPLATE IS JUST FOR FIGHTING OVERPOWERED ARCHERS***

 

[A Rev]

I agree and disagree.

I agree that the mana cost will affect archers more...but not stealth archers[although there not the issue] nor disarm bleed moving shot ar ignore archers...or the bushido yumi 90+hp double shot archers.

I disagree that the change should be small, yet i agree it shouldn't be a nerf. I still firmly believe the best option available would be to buff magic resist to act as a hit spell resist chance.

This would not only help mages, but, it could revitalise a skill so often substituded by items. Think of it, if you have a 35%chance[@120] to resist hit spells on weapons, alot more dexxers would de-gimp, to get it. You might well see a fair amount of dexxers losing the gimpness, some wont of course but i have a feeling...alot would!!!

 

[A Rev]

100 necro
100 ss
100 magery
120 eval
100 parry
100 med
100 anat

20 skill points left over...free skill points faction items...prodo = insurance a nice skill jewel?

Am i missing something?

OR...drop med completely and run inscribe?

Human...20 med and focus base...

Faction item MR FTW?

Deleted

 

[Angel121]

My idea's quoted earlier is to smack SSI which is the whole crux to sustained PvP fighting. Getting the jump and being able to drop the stamina to 1/2 means no insta attacks back unless they choose to pot etc for stamina refil's. Taking into account if balanced bows would add a dummy timer in for pots the second part of my suggestion kicks in.

Lower the percentages or whatever is needed but essentially if the stamina could be lowered in some way through aggressive fighting, your adding the chance to survive.

As regards to self buffing etc, Devine fury can refresh stamina (taking into account my whole idea is not nerfing archers but buffing mages) add in a reset on swing timers, visually a mage could see the graphic - Hit a spell asap and drop the % stamina to lower the ssi again. Resetting Swings while buffing your weapon/self/etc would give the chance to formulate a retaliation/heal.

 

[ACB1961]

Eh, most PvMers don't seem to use potions anyway, and there are better properties for PvM archers than balance, so it's almost completely a PvP property.



... so we could get potion-dispensing hats for UO?

He's right about not using potions in pvm. We play 3 pvm archers & I don't think we've taken a potion on one of them in many years. We don't even consider balance on a pvm bow at all. Balance takes up a huge imbuing %.

 

[Damien Softstep]

100 necro
100 ss
100 magery+20 from crystalline ring = 120 magery
120 eval
100 parry
100 inscribe
100 anat


Am i missing something?

Human...20 med and focus base...

Faction item MR FTW? (along with imbued MR and MI gear?)
-HPI 4,HPR2,LMC 8%,MI 8,MR 2 (imbued armor)

***DISCLAIMER THIS TEMPLATE IS JUST FOR FIGHTING OVERPOWERED ARCHERS***

Now ofcourse without ninja and resist dismounters will eat you alive and other mages will WTFPWN you...

But honestly now solo PvP is dead...

 

[Bullseye_of_Atl]

It would be a drag, but if they limited pvp to just gm equipment, there'd be alot less aggravation. Almost everyone would be on an even playing field......just a thought, I quit pvp years ago, so I can't say....but I can say I have drank a beer and fired a crossbow at the same time......did I hit the target?......nope!

 

[longshanks]

funny how this only became a problem after imbuing. to the op: a revert back to gm armor would never happen. how long would u last against a dreadhorse tamer running around in gm stuff. that ship has long since sailed my friend.

i for one would be in favor of axes having a balanced property. could u say ljack deathstrike ftw...

 

[Damien Softstep]

Okay so then, removing the balanced property from fel rule-set? I don't see a problem with this at ALL.. Nice post, very nice *claps*

How is that a good idea?Whats gonna happen you have a balanced bow in trammel and then miraculously it vanishes when you enter fel?For one it sounds lame and for two the devs would never spend that much time to recode or etc to do that...the easiest thing would be to just wipe the balanced property out...

 

[Winker]

Please explain how you would work this template??

Please explain to all of us how to run a wrestle/parry/necro mage?

Then please enlighten us with what gear you would use to achieve 70DCI 100%lrc 40%lmc 12mr 25HPI? [these are near enough the basics of any mage temp.]

I have shown you how to make overpowered archer suits...and how much damage an archer can output...please enlighten us with your expertise in the mage pvp area?

What Damien says looks like a good archer killer template to me.

100 necro
100 ss
100 magery+20 from crystalline ring = 120 magery
120 eval
100 parry
100 inscribe
100 anat


Am i missing something?

Human...20 med and focus base...

Faction item MR FTW?
-HPI 4,HPR2,LMC 8%,MI 8,MR 2 (imbued armor,per piece)

***DISCLAIMER THIS TEMPLATE IS JUST FOR FIGHTING OVERPOWERED ARCHERS***

To be fair the power of blood oath alone is masive. Yeah the archer eats a apple so you cast blood oath again? followed by evil omen pain spike....one archer running away

Your thoughts?

 

[Trebr Drab]

Isn't this getting even more rock/paper/scissors? Is this what we want in UO?

 

[Damien Softstep]

Isn't this getting even more rock/paper/scissors? Is this what we want in UO?

Its been rock/paper/scissors in UO for years...no i dont want it but its surely not gonna get fixed now...

 

[chad]

Disarm is extremely good versus anyone without wrestling. Bleed is amazing for fighting stealthers.

-Disarm is good, bows are better. Why are you bringing up stealthers?

20% SSI and 30 Stam is 1.25, Instead of 40% SSI and 125 Dex for 1.5

-2s weapons avg wep damage is ~9-11, the avg damage of a bow is significantly higher. Of course they're faster. That doesn't mean archers are more reliant on agility potions though.

1.25 is Still faster..

-What are you talking about? I feel as though you didn't even reply to the topic.

See 3#

-I see it. So I'm going to assume you're suggesting as long as a person does not move, that's the only case where a 1.25s weapon with a 1 tile range is better.

Of course i am

-It appears to be extremely rare.

I wasnt repeating myself.. A Shield can offer more than parry. Anything from FC 1 to Resists or DCI

-You can get fc 1, resists, and even dci on a bow...

Its still a valid point that 4/6 Is easier on a Non Archer

-For people who use shields maybe, but "GOOD" pvpers don't. So people have to get 1 fc on their weapons, just like an archer would.

True, however you can make a more defensively based weapon on a non archer, with Hit Lower attack

-If you really think HLA has even an ounce of PvP worth, you're wrong. And if you're really concerned about it, nobody is stopping you from putting HLA on your bows.

DI is still a very important factor for AI and Conc Blow

-DI doesn't matter for AI at all with archery. You AI for 35 with 90 tactics and 90 anatomy and zero damage increase. Consider this...you have 0 damage increase and you conc blow with lightning and velocity...you may lose ~2-4 damage on your weapon hit, but you gain ~+16 from your two spells.

You dont take a "Hit" in stat, My point is that a 30 Dex Dexxer can run "Higher" Stats

-You are just making obvious points, that in no way support your argument.

Just a Random point.. Like saying Mages and Necros need regs

-So your point is, you don't have one?

It's still a valid point that Non archers can take advantage of this

-It's not a valid point if you were to step back and look through it with a "PvP lens" for lack of a better word. It would make zero sense for archers to have ubws available to them.

 

[Splup]

100 necro
100 ss
100 magery+20 from crystalline ring = 120 magery
120 eval
100 parry
100 inscribe
100 anat


Am i missing something?

Human...20 med and focus base...

Faction item MR FTW?
-HPI 4,HPR 2,LMC 8%,MI 8,MR 2 (imbued armor,per piece)

***DISCLAIMER THIS TEMPLATE IS JUST FOR FIGHTING OVERPOWERED ARCHERS***

What you miss here, is that with 0 EP you need to waste a lot of intelligence to get enought STR and DEX. Parrymage needs atleast 80 dex with a pot, and would be usually nice to have little extra for curse.

But ohh wait, that template has no resist. So with already very low in stats, curse drops ur stats waaay down and ur parrying is pretty much waste of skillpoints. You can't except that the other team has 0 mages.

And now that you are already very low in intelligence, your mana regen sucks badly cause lack of medit and intelligence (it effects you mana regen too). Add there that intelligence also affects your spell damage which is now low too..

That template can kill anything except in wraithform when you are an easy target... Except if the opponent dies to first dump which they rarely do.

And add there, this temp gets ripped by any real mage...

 

[Damien Softstep]

What you miss here, is that with 0 EP you need to waste a lot of intelligence to get enought STR and DEX. Parrymage needs atleast 80 dex with a pot, and would be usually nice to have little extra for curse.

But ohh wait, that template has no resist. So with already very low in stats, curse drops ur stats waaay down and ur parrying is pretty much waste of skillpoints. You can't except that the other team has 0 mages.

And now that you are already very low in intelligence, your mana regen sucks badly cause lack of medit and intelligence (it effects you mana regen too). Add there that intelligence also affects your spell damage which is now low too..

That template can kill anything except in wraithform when you are an easy target... Except if the opponent dies to first dump which they rarely do.

And add there, this temp gets ripped by any real mage...

Im sorry i guess you didnt read this

***THIS TEMPLATE IS JUST FOR FIGHTING OVERPOWERED ARCHERS***

That was pure genius how you decided to read my post put not the stuff in between the stars in caps...

 

[Lord GOD(GOD)]

Am i missing something?

Yes.

Blood Oath doesn't work if you Parry the hit.

Blood Oath can be removed.

Blood Oath makes you take more damage. Which makes it a case of who can heal the easiest, which again, is the Archer.

Edit: Oh, and certain specials aren't reflected by Blood Oath.

 

[chad]

What Damien says looks like a good archer killer template to me.




To be fair the power of blood oath alone is masive. Yeah the archer eats a apple so you cast blood oath again? followed by evil omen pain spike....one archer running away

Your thoughts?

It might look like one, but it isn't...

1. Can't cast on the run, so the archer should never die 1v1.

2. Archers can produce offense while healing themselves. You oath them, you're taking 20% more damage from them. In essence, you take a 42 damage armor ignore...they take 35. Do the math for hit spells. It ends up being about a 60 damage armor ignore if both hit spells go off.

3. They hit you three times in a row, they will have already bandaged and potted through the damage dealt to them and you will have not gotten any offense off and will end up dead.

 

[Splup]

Im sorry i guess you didnt read this

***THIS TEMPLATE IS JUST FOR FIGHTING OVERPOWERED ARCHERS***

That was pure genius how you decided to read my post put not the stuff in between the stars in caps...

I noticed it. But I wanted to point out that this template is pure crap out in field.

If you wanna take a duel against archers at Jhelom farms go ahead and make that temp.

Otherwise it's waste of characterslot and that's why your "template" was just purely useless post. PvP is group fights... Not arranged duels.

 

[Damien Softstep]

What you miss here, is that with 0 EP you need to waste a lot of intelligence to get enought STR and DEX. Parrymage needs atleast 80 dex with a pot, and would be usually nice to have little extra for curse.

But ohh wait, that template has no resist. So with already very low in stats, curse drops ur stats waaay down and ur parrying is pretty much waste of skillpoints. You can't except that the other team has 0 mages.

And now that you are already very low in intelligence, your mana regen sucks badly cause lack of medit and intelligence (it effects you mana regen too). Add there that intelligence also affects your spell damage which is now low too..

That template can kill anything except in wraithform when you are an easy target... Except if the opponent dies to first dump which they rarely do.

And add there, this temp gets ripped by any real mage...

Wow have you ever been in factions in your life?I get SDI just from the crystalline ring itself...

I would run base stats:

80
50
125

You might wanna add up all the MR im gonna have...

 

[Damien Softstep]

Now ofcourse without ninja and resist dismounters will eat you alive and other mages will WTFPWN you...

But honestly now solo PvP is dead...

I noticed it. But I wanted to point out that this template is pure crap out in field.

If you wanna take a duel against archers at Jhelom farms go ahead and make that temp.

Otherwise it's waste of characterslot and that's why your "template" was just purely useless post. PvP is group fights... Not arranged duels.

Then you must have missed this whole post too...

Nice to meet you Captain Obvious...

 

[Damien Softstep]

It might look like one, but it isn't...

1. Can't cast on the run, so the archer should never die 1v1.

2. Archers can produce offense while healing themselves. You oath them, you're taking 20% more damage from them. In essence, you take a 42 damage armor ignore...they take 35. Do the math for hit spells. It ends up being about a 60 damage armor ignore if both hit spells go off.

3. They hit you three times in a row, they will have already bandaged and potted through the damage dealt to them and you will have not gotten any offense off and will end up dead.

x2...

 

[Damien Softstep]

Im really sorry to do this but this is gonna be the truth...thru the years EA has put overpowered/unbalanced templates into the game thru all the years and 90% of the people run to those templates...the problem is those templates dont get nerfed for years and considering how the dev team communicates with us now well you get my point...so the best thing to do right now in my opinion if your tired of archers to run parry/tamers...this game is rock,paper,scissors and always will be rock,paper,scissors...

We need a dev that actually pvps or atleast understands pvp...

And yes i agree archers are overpowered...

It might look like one, but it isn't...

1. Can't cast on the run, so the archer should never die 1v1.

2. Archers can produce offense while healing themselves. You oath them, you're taking 20% more damage from them. In essence, you take a 42 damage armor ignore...they take 35. Do the math for hit spells. It ends up being about a 60 damage armor ignore if both hit spells go off.

3. They hit you three times in a row, they will have already bandaged and potted through the damage dealt to them and you will have not gotten any offense off and will end up dead.

Do this...

 

[Damien Softstep]

Yes.

Blood Oath doesn't work if you Parry the hit.

Blood Oath can be removed.

Blood Oath makes you take more damage. Which makes it a case of who can heal the easiest, which again, is the Archer.

Edit: Oh, and certain specials aren't reflected by Blood Oath.

Who said im casting blood oath?Having parry i would never cast blood oath silly...

 

[Winker]

It might look like one, but it isn't...

1. Can't cast on the run, so the archer should never die 1v1.

2. Archers can produce offense while healing themselves. You oath them, you're taking 20% more damage from them. In essence, you take a 42 damage armor ignore...they take 35. Do the math for hit spells. It ends up being about a 60 damage armor ignore if both hit spells go off.

3. They hit you three times in a row, they will have already bandaged and potted through the damage dealt to them and you will have not gotten any offense off and will end up dead.

No but you can pre cast and run!

You can pot to heal, then mini heal and your parry + DCI should kick in. reflect physical and hit point regen on your suit.

3 hits in a row and you Pot, Mini heal, Mini heal, Mini heal, Pot and cary Hit point regen on your suit, as well as reflect physical. The options are enless.....

 

[Damien Softstep]

Where did I mention anything about SDI? I said intelligence effects you spell damage. So does SDI ofc, but SDI does not cover Intelligence.

So mage gets 8 STR from glasses, 10 dex from crim, 5 int from sash and lets take +10 int from pendant and +8 from pants.

So you with items you would be:

88 str
60 dex
148 int

Now you chug ur pots you are

109 str
81 dex
148 int. (150 with bless ofc)

109 str = 104 HP + 25 HPI = 129 HP

Now someone curses you you go:

90 str = 95 HP + 25 HPI = 120 HP
67 dex = starting to cause troubles parrying.

Now with 120 HP, lowered parry chance good luck.

Mate I'm not trying to attack you here, but it's just annoying people posting these temps which would work in a mage vs archer duel if archer is not allowed to run, but in real world out door PvP the temps are useless and that's why pretty irrelevant.

100 ninja
100 magery+crystalline ring = 120 magery
120 eval
100 parry
100 scribe
100 anat
100 resist

That would be my real world PvP since you havent asked and i never commented on it here you go...

My imbued armor pieces would be...HPI 4,HPR 2,LMC 8%,MI 8,MR 2...