C
Chrissay_
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Just so everyone knows that we have NOT approved any new map programs. We closed the application process for 3rd party programs years ago.
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A New Mapping Application
- Thread starter JC the Builder
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- Watchers 2
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I didnt know this.
C
CatLord
Guest
Some did... and kept pushing... pushing... pushing... until they got their wrist slapped...
A
altarego
Guest
Seriously. If you want a new feature added to the EC, submit your input through official channels as a feature request. Stop trying to circumvent progress.
Seriously until they can actually get the client to work with the features it has, we will be without a proper map application.
I really wish someone would post a development plan for the client so we have some idea of what they are planning on having instead of just telling us nothing besides what we already know.
We now have an unsupported program that is far out of date and will not have new content (maps)
The party tracking in the EC is dodgy and I've reported it's problems multiple times
Guilds need a mapping application with tracking
Individuals need a map that they can actually mark waypoints on reliably
I really wish someone would post a development plan for the client so we have some idea of what they are planning on having instead of just telling us nothing besides what we already know.
We now have an unsupported program that is far out of date and will not have new content (maps)
The party tracking in the EC is dodgy and I've reported it's problems multiple times
Guilds need a mapping application with tracking
Individuals need a map that they can actually mark waypoints on reliably
What progress is being circumvented here? Right now no progress is being made and we don't know in what direction they are going with anything.
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Building on that API is a bad idea, it restricts use of any such program to those using UOAssist. It can be done without the API Easily, very easily.
If you do that the program will be an illegal 3rd party. You would not be able to discuss the application in-game or on Stratics.
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Old Man of UO
Guest
Sorry... it's NOT my logic, it's EA/Mythic's TOS. You should know better.
L
Lord Drakelord
Guest
I happy to hear someone is working on something that will HELP us 2d players in the new lands. I feel so lost without UOAM in these new lands and dungeons. Do keep us inform and if you need a tester I volunteer!
O
Old Man of UO
Guest
Chrissay all but said that idea is dead. (interpreting her words)
I want this too, but want it done right. What we need to do is petition EA/Mythic to incorporate that feature into the current clients. The functionality is all but there and can be done. The other choice is to get Steve Blanding to update UOAM. Or do both.
K
Kiminality
Guest
How did Tug get permission to develop UOA for EC, then?
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Old Man of UO
Guest
It's been closed for 7 or 8 years now. At one time is was kinda encouraged, but too many "exploiting" applications appeared, so the program was closed.
O
Old Man of UO
Guest
From the Knowledge Base:
"Only these programs are permitted to be used with UO. If you don't see a program listed here, it is not approved for use with UO.
* UOAssist: Website - Details
* UO Auto-Map: Website - Details
* UO Calculator: Website - Details
* UO Curse Tool: Website - Details
* UO Journal Converter: Website - Details
* UO Magic Tool: Website - Details
* UO Spawn Map: Website - Details
These products were created, and are marketed and distributed by individual authors under license from Electronic Arts, Inc. Electronic Arts HAS NOT TESTED THESE PRODUCTS IN ANY WAY WHATSOEVER AND DOES NOT KNOW WHETHER THEY WORK IN ANY OR ALL REASONABLY FORESEEABLE SITUATIONS OR THAT THEY WILL NOT CAUSE DAMAGE IN SOME REASONABLY FORESEEABLE SITUATIONS. The individual author solely warrants that these products will work as intended to your reasonable expectations, and does not infringe anyone's intellectual property rights.
Electronic Arts has not checked the source code for any of these programs. Electronic Arts will not be held responsible for anything that should happen to your account or computer as a result of using these programs. Electronic Arts does not support these programs. If you have problems with them, please contact the author of the program directly. Use at your own risk.
Programs such as ICQ, AIM, UO Trace, or any other program that runs independently of UO, and has no effect on the UO data stream or software are generally ok to use.
We are frequently asked about programs such as Multi-UO and some programs that automate macros in the game. Again, if it is not in the approved list of UO Pro programs, then it is not ok to use with UO.
We are not currently accepting submissions to the Third Party Affiliate Program. "
===================================================
This is the part that people were trying to work around in creating a new map program:
Programs such as ICQ, AIM, UO Trace, or any other program that runs independently of UO, and has no effect on the UO data stream or software are generally ok to use.
The map programs do not run independently of UO (that is, they need the client to collect the information), and therefore would need approval. I'm sure many will disagree, but take that argument up with EA/Mythic.
"Only these programs are permitted to be used with UO. If you don't see a program listed here, it is not approved for use with UO.
* UOAssist: Website - Details
* UO Auto-Map: Website - Details
* UO Calculator: Website - Details
* UO Curse Tool: Website - Details
* UO Journal Converter: Website - Details
* UO Magic Tool: Website - Details
* UO Spawn Map: Website - Details
These products were created, and are marketed and distributed by individual authors under license from Electronic Arts, Inc. Electronic Arts HAS NOT TESTED THESE PRODUCTS IN ANY WAY WHATSOEVER AND DOES NOT KNOW WHETHER THEY WORK IN ANY OR ALL REASONABLY FORESEEABLE SITUATIONS OR THAT THEY WILL NOT CAUSE DAMAGE IN SOME REASONABLY FORESEEABLE SITUATIONS. The individual author solely warrants that these products will work as intended to your reasonable expectations, and does not infringe anyone's intellectual property rights.
Electronic Arts has not checked the source code for any of these programs. Electronic Arts will not be held responsible for anything that should happen to your account or computer as a result of using these programs. Electronic Arts does not support these programs. If you have problems with them, please contact the author of the program directly. Use at your own risk.
Programs such as ICQ, AIM, UO Trace, or any other program that runs independently of UO, and has no effect on the UO data stream or software are generally ok to use.
We are frequently asked about programs such as Multi-UO and some programs that automate macros in the game. Again, if it is not in the approved list of UO Pro programs, then it is not ok to use with UO.
We are not currently accepting submissions to the Third Party Affiliate Program. "
===================================================
This is the part that people were trying to work around in creating a new map program:
Programs such as ICQ, AIM, UO Trace, or any other program that runs independently of UO, and has no effect on the UO data stream or software are generally ok to use.
The map programs do not run independently of UO (that is, they need the client to collect the information), and therefore would need approval. I'm sure many will disagree, but take that argument up with EA/Mythic.
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Old Man of UO
Guest
More info from the knowledge base on TOS and ROC in UO:
"Although the Terms of Service agreement and the Rules of Conduct offer guidelines on behavior within the game, and this FAQ details possible reasons for banning, the dynamic nature of Ultima Online precludes rules which fit every situation. Furthermore, it would be dangerous to list all the possible exploits in the game which could get a player banned. If we post the exploits, it is just like broadcasting how to cheat. We try to plug any possible gaps for cheating when we see them, but doing so takes time. Ultima Online is very intricate, and changing one system, could deeply affect another.
Here are some clear guidelines which should help:
1. Do not use any third party program that has not been approved to be UO Pro . Even if the program you are using resembles or contains the same features as an approved program, there is a reason that it is not UO Pro. "
"Although the Terms of Service agreement and the Rules of Conduct offer guidelines on behavior within the game, and this FAQ details possible reasons for banning, the dynamic nature of Ultima Online precludes rules which fit every situation. Furthermore, it would be dangerous to list all the possible exploits in the game which could get a player banned. If we post the exploits, it is just like broadcasting how to cheat. We try to plug any possible gaps for cheating when we see them, but doing so takes time. Ultima Online is very intricate, and changing one system, could deeply affect another.
Here are some clear guidelines which should help:
1. Do not use any third party program that has not been approved to be UO Pro . Even if the program you are using resembles or contains the same features as an approved program, there is a reason that it is not UO Pro. "
T
Torin Galka
Guest
However a map should be developed, is there anyone who doesn't what this? What is wrong with using a map that does not effect the client? Why is this such a big deal when I is not a problem to use the dozens of chat and communication software out there.
I don't know, maybe I am the only one not updating my accounts until the mapping is fixed.
I don't know, maybe I am the only one not updating my accounts until the mapping is fixed.
It does run independently as long as it runs through UOAssist.Old Man of UO said:
F
Fink
Guest
No UO Rudder or UO Wedding in there.. hmm. Does that mean they are illegal or simply not approved? And is there a difference?
V
Vyal
Guest
Honestly it's simple enough to do, and it won't break the rules.
So if UOAM isn't going to be updated anymore I would be more then happy to make something. . . .
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
Chrissay I don't see how you can stop someone from making a program that doesn't have anything to do with uo (sorta), if it only reads key clicks and mouse clicks on a screen to pinpoint someones location.
you got no legal grounds there.
So if UOAM isn't going to be updated anymore I would be more then happy to make something. . . .
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
Chrissay I don't see how you can stop someone from making a program that doesn't have anything to do with uo (sorta), if it only reads key clicks and mouse clicks on a screen to pinpoint someones location.
you got no legal grounds there.
O
Old Man of UO
Guest
Don't tell me... Tell EA/Mythic. I didn't make the rules (TOS and ROC) that you agreed to when you signed up for an account, and again when you loaded the client.
Chrissay stated that this program is not approved. That does not mean it has been declared illegal. We were never expecting for EA to approve this program.
V
Vyal
Guest
Yay? That took about half an hour to make a small program that tracks a player around Ter Mur I guess next will be to add the rest of the new maps then the old maps then add client server for guilds ? Not hard at all, also UOAM slows people down big time this take up like no memory.
I know it isn't pretty I just wanted to see if I could make a program to zoom in and out and track a player around.
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UOKaiser
Guest
You're being too literal. This will also include microsoft office,macro keyboards,mouses,icq,voice chat,screenshots,etc.. The only TOS that he will need to check is tug's as it interacts with his program which is legaly interacting with uo. For example many of the programs in the tool section of stratics have never being uopro approved and do not interact with the uo data stream.
K
Kiwillian
Guest
That's not strictly true, JC. This is what I was told by Chrissay last week:
edit: Vyal, can you scale that picture down please? It's breaking the tables
Therein lies the problem.
edit: Vyal, can you scale that picture down please? It's breaking the tables
V
Vyal
Guest
Who says half of them even do? Playing with packets is a no no in a MMO - I got perma banned from EverQuest when I helped make EQemu for playing with packets and well you know
UO can actually SUE someone for screwing with packets, and I doubt any third party programs actually do that. I can think of one off the top of my head but then you would even need the source to it to mod it.
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UOKaiser
Guest
Definetly never mess with the packets well except with your own hardware but software wise playing with packets is traceble and pretty banable in most mmos. Other than that well like I said if the program interacts with uo assist as long as it's ok in tugs eyes then take it from there.Who says half of them even do? Playing with packets is a no no in a MMO - I got perma banned from EverQuest when I helped make EQemu for playing with packets and well you know
UO can actually SUE someone for screwing with packets, and I doubt any third party programs actually do that. I can think of one off the top of my head but then you would even need the source to it to mod it.
He gave the api before? ANyway others will know more than me.
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Vyal
Guest
Dude that UOAM is crap it will lag some people down why would I ever use any of that?
Because it was assumed the program would interact with the client. When I informed her of the UOAssist API she said "hold that thought" and never got back to me.
Currently your program does not go through UOAssist so it wouldn't be legal. If you update it to the UOAssist API it would be okay.
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UOKaiser
Guest
Personaly I havent used it for about 5 years. But looks like people have being using to coordinate with friends and other things. Oh well.
K
Kiwillian
Guest
Um, it does go through UOAssist (for the classic client, anyway). In EC it uses some Lua (which should also be legit).
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Vyal
Guest
They can't tell me a program that uses windows calls like this
is not legal it is not interacting with uo simply getting x,y of a player.
Code:
Declare Function FindWindow Lib "user32.dll" Alias "FindWindowA" (ByVal lpClassName As Any, ByVal lpWindowName As Any) As LongOh. I was informed that if it went through the LUA it would be legal. So your application is legal then. I didn't know that was possible.
K
Kiwillian
Guest
Oh. Who said that? I haven't had much luck finding out so far
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That isn't necessarily true, just because a program uses the API does not mean that EA/Mythic can't declare it illegal to use and action you on it. It's their game they can reserve final judgement. If they don't want any new third party programs then it doesn't matter if you use the API or not.
And btw LUA is a programming language, not something you'd "go through"....
I have been asking for a full .lua script support list for SA for a while now for this very reason.
I have coded WoW addons (also in .lua) and I could do the same for UO in time. For those who are not familiar, .lua is a powerful, light waight programming interface for games. Right now the only real uses for it in UO was to change the apparence and "skin" elements of the game, but .lua could be used to change the in game mapping system, add features, and fix mundane bugs and junk.
.lua in WoW allows complete UI customization. Just look at some of the ways you can add functionality. And yes, it is legal, since Blizzard limits automation.
http://wow.curse.com/downloads/wow-addons/default.aspx
I have coded WoW addons (also in .lua) and I could do the same for UO in time. For those who are not familiar, .lua is a powerful, light waight programming interface for games. Right now the only real uses for it in UO was to change the apparence and "skin" elements of the game, but .lua could be used to change the in game mapping system, add features, and fix mundane bugs and junk.
.lua in WoW allows complete UI customization. Just look at some of the ways you can add functionality. And yes, it is legal, since Blizzard limits automation.
http://wow.curse.com/downloads/wow-addons/default.aspx
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Kiwillian
Guest
In this case is sort of is. The new client uses Lua for the UI and it has an API that Mythic make available (and control). People can use it to make custom skins and modifications to the new client legally.
I add a few lines of Lua to the skin. That's all.
edit: to clarify - the Lua additions are done manually, not by my app. Skin creators could choose to add it if they are so inclined.
V
Vyal
Guest
It's not a programming language, it's an api called thru other languages.
Also it looks pretty useless.
We don't need much speed here and everyone seems to have forgot about VB.
You see what I did in under twenty min with VB? Complete with zoom in zoom out functions using nothing but the user32 dll for windows.
I could add client server abilities in under half an hour so a whole guild could log in and see where everyone is, a server that could easily be put on a virtual host for 5 bucks a month.
Anyhow I suggest ya'll stray away from LUA I read the doc and yes that would go against he rules for UO so I just thought I would let ya know that.
Also LUA would have nothing to do with a map program FYI.
Also it looks pretty useless.
We don't need much speed here and everyone seems to have forgot about VB.
You see what I did in under twenty min with VB? Complete with zoom in zoom out functions using nothing but the user32 dll for windows.
I could add client server abilities in under half an hour so a whole guild could log in and see where everyone is, a server that could easily be put on a virtual host for 5 bucks a month.
Anyhow I suggest ya'll stray away from LUA I read the doc and yes that would go against he rules for UO so I just thought I would let ya know that.
Also LUA would have nothing to do with a map program FYI.
K
Kiwillian
Guest
You are missing the point.
If the map app is to work with the new client you cannot go through UOAssist, since it doesn't work.
How are you going to get the data?
If the map app is to work with the new client you cannot go through UOAssist, since it doesn't work.
How are you going to get the data?
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UOKaiser
Guest
Wasn't tug interested in updating it with the new client?
K
Kiwillian
Guest
Yeah. He has permission to write a new approved app for the new client. Dunno if there's much need for it really, since the new client does a lot of what UOA does anyway.
It's a separate issue though, and I'm not going to rely on it ever happening. It's better to use what is available now (i.e. the new clients built-in Lua & API) to pass the information along in a legal manner.
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Vyal
Guest
i'm not going to tell ya how i'm doing it I dont want a million people making map programs. I will say i'm not using anything that has to do with UOAM i'm writing all of my own code 
K
Kiwillian
Guest
It's no big secret. The whole point of this thread now is to determine what is legal and what isn't. That way people like us who write a new app can safely release it without people risking the ban-hammer.
If you are expecting to make a bunch of money off it, you'd better do a good job. I was going to release mine for free
If you are expecting to make a bunch of money off it, you'd better do a good job. I was going to release mine for free
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Vyal
Guest
Well if your not using a real programming language I guess I don't have anything to worry about.
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Torin Galka
Guest
Sorry if I am a bit confused. Seems most of what is being worked on does not affect the client. Right?
If so how can I be banded for running a program on my computer that does not affect the client or my Player Character (no macros-no scripting).
Are not many of us using voice and chat programs that are non-approved? Are we not using them to keep tabs on where our friends are?
Seems silly we can't use a new interactive map, when if now or never the UOAM guy decides to wake up he can just update his and say here ya go it's "approved".
All this discussion because EA can't reproduce a 10 year old map concept. Silly.
If so how can I be banded for running a program on my computer that does not affect the client or my Player Character (no macros-no scripting).
Are not many of us using voice and chat programs that are non-approved? Are we not using them to keep tabs on where our friends are?
Seems silly we can't use a new interactive map, when if now or never the UOAM guy decides to wake up he can just update his and say here ya go it's "approved".
All this discussion because EA can't reproduce a 10 year old map concept. Silly.
K
Kiwillian
Guest
Not sure what you mean by this, but OK. Aren't you doing yours in VB?
(p.s. mine isn't in Lua, you are just not understanding the issue).
V
Vyal
Guest
No need to use anything else, VB is the most simple language there is I have pretty much already finished it all I need to do now is add maps in for everything else other then SA.
K
Kiwillian
Guest
Cool! That was quick!
Does it work with the new client? Does it do per-user authentication on the server? How do the maps get updated? Can it import UOAM .map files? Can you scroll around the map to look at things on the same or different facet?
Man, this will save me a lot of work!
Does it work with the new client? Does it do per-user authentication on the server? How do the maps get updated? Can it import UOAM .map files? Can you scroll around the map to look at things on the same or different facet?
Man, this will save me a lot of work!
M
Mijac_Chmon
Guest
You arrogant, snide fool.
If you're looking to make money from this, trust me, you won't.
K
Kiwillian
Guest
Never mind him. Vyal must be channeling Sweeny or something. I already had a run in with him earlier in the thread (Sweeny that is).
So anyway, here's some screenshots from my effort:
The map app:
Menus!:
New Facet:
That's running without either client, so I just scrolled around the maps using the app instead
So anyway, here's some screenshots from my effort:
The map app:
Menus!:
New Facet:
That's running without either client, so I just scrolled around the maps using the app instead
K
kokopelli
Guest
Awesome!
Please do continue with your work and ignore all the ppl that try to put you down.
And yes, that includes EA/Mythic! - they could not or rather were not willing to deliver a decent map-tool in over 10 years and for me personally they can cry foul as long as they want... such a tool is simply needed.
Please do continue with your work and ignore all the ppl that try to put you down.
And yes, that includes EA/Mythic! - they could not or rather were not willing to deliver a decent map-tool in over 10 years and for me personally they can cry foul as long as they want... such a tool is simply needed.
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