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A New Mapping Application

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U

UOKaiser

Guest
Two questions for JC, Kiwillian and Vyal concerning each implementation of the map apps:

1) Is it possible, as it is now or through modifications, to track another player without his/her knowledge? <=== this worries me the most

2) Can these apps that you are working on be detected by the Client?
Agree with bikrdotnet. You will need a common server to connect to with other clients using the same app. In order to do it UO you will actually have to hack the UO server which neither of these do and would be nigh impossible without getting caught. Not to mention that if you could do that you might as well generate 100trillion gold ,place houses in the middle of the ocean and give your self every item you like if you could hack the server.
 
V

Vyal

Guest
Well even reading the clients memory isn't good thats why most 3rd party programs arn't allowed. It's weird to me that some are and some arn't why is UOA allowed and the other isn't when they are the exact same thing and why is UOAM allowed to peek into the clients memory and none else are.

It doesn't matter much to me because i'm not looking into the clients memory at all, i'm reading screen colors to get a players pos osI know mt program will be 100% legit it will just me some time to get it down to exact char locations.

I will tell you with how I am workin the only thing I would be able to do is read colors find a name on the screen and send commands to the client well mouse clicks pretty much with the user32 dll and have one char follow the other thats about as far as tracking can go so don't worry ;)
 

Arcus

Grand Poobah
Supporter
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
Ever hear of Copy Right laws? UOAM has Copy Rights.

Tugsoft provides an API that he allows people to hook into.

Also, I doubt Kil has the source. Hes not "stealing" anything. UO's maps are EAs property. They have the final say , not Tugsoft.
 
T

Torin Galka

Guest
I don't understand all this childish bickering. Kiwillian just keep up the good work. We just need a map that works.
 
O

Old Man of UO

Guest
I don't understand all this childish bickering. Kiwillian just keep up the good work. We just need a map that works.
Which part is the childish bickering? Asking questions to be sure a new application is 100% legal and acceptable to EA/Mythic is not bickering. I've never said that this application shouldn't be developed, only that it developed in a completely legal and acceptable manner, no "gray" areas.

We have enough cheating, we don't need to create another cheat program, and the only way to prevent that is asking questions.
 
K

Kiwillian

Guest
I don't think that comment was aimed at you specifically :)

To address your concerns from earlier on:

It can only track people who choose to log into the server part of the app, much like UOAM. If you don't log in, it won't track you or other people so you could just use it as an enhanced radar map if you wanted to. T-Hunters might find that handy for instance.

I don't think discussing what the client does to deter cheaters is very wise, but all evidence points to it not doing so. If they end up adding something like PunkBuster, GameGuard or a Warden type thing, then yes.
 
V

Vyal

Guest



Is there any features anyone can think to add that was missing from UOAM?
 
O

Old Man of UO

Guest
... It can only track people who choose to log into the server part of the app, much like UOAM. If you don't log in, it won't track you or other people so you could just use it as an enhanced radar map if you wanted to. T-Hunters might find that handy for instance.
....
I used UOAM mostly for T-hunting, and the new map doesn't work well for that. So I would appreciate having an improved mapping/marking system.
 

JC the Builder

Crazed Zealot
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
Asking questions to be sure a new application is 100% legal and acceptable to EA/Mythic is not bickering. I've never said that this application shouldn't be developed, only that it developed in a completely legal and acceptable manner, no "gray" areas.
EA no longer approves applications for use with UO and hasn't for nearly a decade. You are not going to get the answer you seek. Either EA will declare it illegal or not. They will not specifically state it is legal unless they decide to change their policy. This is why Chrissay keeps posting that this is not an approved project.

This has already been gone over many times in regards to the many unapproved applications that Stratics hosts. The new map application is just going to be another one of those.
 

Hattori Hanzo

Lore Keeper
Alumni
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
I like the tone of this thread primarily because this is a massively important topic and I hope people who matter read what is said here. UO has one thing left over other (newer / sleeker / WOWer / etc) games, a very high level of personal interaction within the broader community.

What is at stake here is the essence of what has made UO successful for years; what will hopefully give it a few more years of longevity - unique player interaction.

I know, WOW has volumes of user websites, the guilds are massive and require FBI backgrounds to join, and players meet and interact in various raids. I know SIMS has every sort of home building tool there is, designed to draw people into your contact network.

However, nowhere else but UO is there a complex game with various playing strategies, that incorporates the level of community contact and cooperative game play. Having a map tool such as UOAM is of bedrock importance to the community feel of UO. The people who do not run UOAM don’t lose anything by allowing others to run UOAM.

Devs – Don’t discard a great, unique aspect of the game. Please allow some form of UO map client.
 
K

KoolAidAddict

Guest
EA no longer approves applications for use with UO and hasn't for nearly a decade. You are not going to get the answer you seek. Either EA will declare it illegal or not. They will not specifically state it is legal unless they decide to change their policy. This is why Chrissay keeps posting that this is not an approved project.

This has already been gone over many times in regards to the many unapproved applications that Stratics hosts. The new map application is just going to be another one of those.
And for the life of me, I dont get their south end of a north bound donkey's attitude on this type stuff.
Surely they must know / admit that the player base has smarter/ more creative folks than they employ who can code circles around em, especially on a wonderful app such as this looks!!

Ya'll working on this have my blessing, my thanks, and most of all my WOOT!!!
Knock it out of the park!!!:thumbup::thumbup:
 

Omnius

Crazed Zealot
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
I'm not sure if I'm allowed to say this but reverse engineering uoam would probably be the easiest way to make a new map tool...
 
V

Vyal

Guest
I have already made one the loads mul map files (2d classic) and dds files (SA) scrolls around can warp to a section of the image dependin on the players location.

client server for guild connect is done, find the exact cords are done, centering the the map with the player is done,

I need to finish the marker system then I should be just about finished unless someone has something they want me to add.

I was think of making like a pathfinder system, you layout a path on the map then you can have your player walk that path I thought that would be sorta cool.

Do you know it was no easy task making those files viewable. well the DDS ones are easy but mul gaaa.

I am going to need some dedicated to person to make points of interest on every facet at some point.

I honestly dont know how the other dude is doing it it just looks fake to me to be real honest so I wouldn't put your hopes in it.
 
A

Ash

Guest
I was think of making like a pathfinder system, you layout a path on the map then you can have your player walk that path I thought that would be sorta cool.
You do realize that would take your application from the gray area into illegal application because it automates the client.
 
U

UOKaiser

Guest
You do realize that would take your application from the gray area into illegal application because it automates the client.
Nope not yet. The player will have to be unattended before it brings it to that territory. Attended macroing is perfecly legal. Which automates process while attended of course
 
A

Ash

Guest
Nope not yet. The player will have to be unattended before it brings it to that territory. Attended macroing is perfecly legal. Which automates process while attended of course
Yes it would be an illegal functionality under the rules of 3rd party programs that interact with the client. There is no stipulation on being attended in that regard. Sending key or mouse clicks to the client window is something that will get such a project quickly marked as an illegal 3rd party program.
 
B

bikrdotnet

Guest
I'd like a corpse finder. :) Quick button to label ur body for when u go Rez
 
U

UOKaiser

Guest
Yes it would be an illegal functionality under the rules of 3rd party programs that interact with the client. There is no stipulation on being attended in that regard. Sending key or mouse clicks to the client window is something that will get such a project quickly marked as an illegal 3rd party program.
Nope I shall point to a couple others that are perfectly find to use- macro programs that come with your keyboard and anything that interact with hot keys is consider to interact with uo. Here in statics we have so many of them let me point to just 2 uotamer which is a program that uses the hotkeys and uorudder which sends combination of key stokes to screen. I don't see the difference between these and the map able to send a combination of keystrokes so you can get from one destination to the other.
 
O

Old Man of UO

Guest
Who cares?
I do, and the majority of UO players care.

If you want more people to participate in PvP, you need to level the ground so that people do feel they are being "cheated" when they lose. Me? I know that I am bad at PvP and lose because I don't have the interest and skills. But I also know, AND see, and lot of cheats in the game, not just in PvP. If we get rid of all cheats, it will be better for all of UO. So you should care, too.
 

Arcus

Grand Poobah
Supporter
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
I honestly dont know how the other dude is doing it it just looks fake to me to be real honest so I wouldn't put your hopes in it.
Dude, what you are doing is cool and all but this was an unnecessary pot shot at a fellow programmer.
 
B

bikrdotnet

Guest
Dude, what you are doing is cool and all but this was an unnecessary pot shot at a fellow programmer.
I believe the initial goal was to team up with him. The other guy was making crazy claims that anyone with any programming knowledge saw right through and the dude hasn't posted since.
 

IanJames

Certifiable
Alumni
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
Just because Kiwi hasn't posted since this morning doesn't me that you scared him off. Some people have lives on Sunday. From what I understand, he's had the program working for quite some time.

Vyal, if that's the quality of your map in that screenshot, then I'm not interested.

birkdotnet, there is a corpse finder in the EC
 
B

bikrdotnet

Guest
Just because Kiwi hasn't posted since this morning doesn't me that you scared him off. Some people have lives on Sunday. From what I understand, he's had the program working for quite some time.
It definitely isn't that I think he's scared off.. Having the program working for "some time" is great, but saying he didnt read the client memory, and didnt use uoassist, but has exact location is as thus far, unfounded, and most likely not true... Vyal's solution for not using either was the only way you can do it and getting exact location within 1 tile is impossible that way.

Vyal, if that's the quality of your map in that screenshot, then I'm not interested.
That screen shot looks just like the bundled maps, but hella zoomed in, I'm sure he was screwing around with zoom..


birkdotnet, there is a corpse finder in the EC
Nice!! But I'll not be using the EC.. :( Thanks for the info though, I'll check it out just for hell of it.. :)
 
K

Kiwillian

Guest
I am using UOAssist. I've mentioned that several times.

I'm not interesting in getting caught up in petty bickering and name calling.
 
B

bikrdotnet

Guest
My apologies I got mixed up in this thread and thought you were claiming to not use assist.

Although uoam had an assist plugin pane, I'm certain I've used it without assist running. I believ someone mentioned earlier it relied on assist.
 
K

Kiwillian

Guest
My apologies I got mixed up in this thread and thought you were claiming to not use assist.

Although uoam had an assist plugin pane, I'm certain I've used it without assist running. I believ someone mentioned earlier it relied on assist.
I think UOAM used to not use UOA and dug around in memory instead (which is what that whole calibration thing was about) but now it uses UOA and I think the old method is long since broken (and dodgy anyway) :)
 

Amren

Journeyman
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
You are missing the point.

If the map app is to work with the new client you cannot go through UOAssist, since it doesn't work.

How are you going to get the data?
I was just playing with SA client and the map co-ordinates are right there to display. It would not be tough at all to track that through lua scripts. It's how it's done in WoW.

Note that lua would imply the functionality would be added to the game interface. It would not be a separate 3rd party app like UOAM. EA would dictate which scripts could be used.

http://www.lua.org/about.html
 
K

Kiwillian

Guest
I was just playing with SA client and the map co-ordinates are right there to display. It would not be tough at all to track that through lua scripts. It's how it's done in WoW.

Note that lua would imply the functionality would be added to the game interface. It would not be a separate 3rd party app like UOAM. EA would dictate which scripts could be used.

http://www.lua.org/about.html
Yeah, I have mine working with the new client. It was one of the first things I looked into (that's why this thread was posted in the first place - it used to be in the new client forum). I use the new client myself, so it was my main motivation.

The functionality is there to do it with what Mythic provide via the Lua interfaces. :)
 
M

Merik

Guest
Tug (the creator of UOAssist) is expressing interest in updating for the Enhanced Client. If he does so then a new map application can be made for both clients and every UO player can remain happy.
Oh im sure he is so he can make a quick buck if SA is a success.
 
L

Lord Drakelord

Guest
If you don't see a program listed here, it is not approved for use with UO.

* UOAssist: Website - Details
* UO Auto-Map: Website - Details
* UO Calculator: Website - Details
* UO Curse Tool: Website - Details
* UO Journal Converter: Website - Details
* UO Magic Tool: Website - Details
* UO Spawn Map: Website - Details
No UO Rudder or UO Wedding in there.. hmm. Does that mean they are illegal or simply not approved? And is there a difference?
that is a good question
 
B

bikrdotnet

Guest
If either of the in progress map projects go open source it'll weigh heavily on my decision of which to run, and yes that's a plea / challenge!! :p
 
V

Vyal

Guest
I am using UOAssist. I've mentioned that several times.

I'm not interesting in getting caught up in petty bickering and name calling.
I thought you said you got the coords from that stupid lua script?
I remember going almost a whole thread about how you can't get cords from that.
 

IanJames

Certifiable
Alumni
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
I'm pretty sure he's using LUA for the EC, and UOA for the 2d, maybe he just needs to clarify.
 
K

Kiwillian

Guest
Yeah, UOA for 2D and some LUA for EC. I thought Vyal was asking me how I converted X,Y to Lat/Long lol :)
 
B

bikrdotnet

Guest
Ok.. So.. Let's see some betas boys!@#$@#% We can vote for the seksiest haha..

I honestly can't wait to see them both taking shape and completed.. UOAM has always been great for what it was, but it definitely is time to bring something to 2009 and beyond..
 

Kat

Crazed Zealot
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
I've been "beta testing" Kiwi's new map app since this morning and I am a pretty happy camper. It looks nice and the functionality is great. He is still adding some features and working on a couple of minor glitches. It works with the 2d client and creates a map for the new lands. Overall, it has much improved functionality over UOAM. I am very happy with it so far! :thumbsup:
 
C

Chaotic Destruction

Guest
Keep up the good work Kiwi and lemme know when its done. I'd love a copy if you dont mind
 
L

Lord Drakelord

Guest
I've been "beta testing" Kiwi's new map app since this morning and I am a pretty happy camper. It looks nice and the functionality is great. He is still adding some features and working on a couple of minor glitches. It works with the 2d client and creates a map for the new lands. Overall, it has much improved functionality over UOAM. I am very happy with it so far! :thumbsup:
well I love to test this also
 
V

Vyal

Guest


I could use some people to place markers so whenever it's ready for a release people don't need to place every marker.
 
V

Vyal

Guest
Ehh I really can't seem to get the ui right.
I don't want it to flashy, but I don't want it to dull. That there is pretty dull. It's been changed about 5 times now and I think ive finally settled on just tabbed viewing and right click drop down menus.

BTW client server both work and are stable.
I am working on the help sections so people know how everything works and tossing up a website.

Can anyone from EA let people know the odds of getting something like this on the uopro list?
 

Ansatsu

Adventurer
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
Wow.. Look's great guys... I too would love to beta test either of these.. Anything that can help this move along!! :thumbsup:
 
V

Vyal

Guest
I want to say tomorrow around noon i'll post a link to a site that you can download it at.

As long as Stratics doesn't ban me for it :eyes::eyes::eyes:
 
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