Why UO is how it is today.

[Flanuva101]

I am not out to make friends, or worry about who's toes I am stepping on. I just want everyone to know what is going on with the UO as we know it. Before I get flamed, I am not saying that everything about Stratics is horrible, just some broken directions. Whether this post includes you or if it doesnt, that is yours to call. Everyone wants this changed or that changed, this nerfed or that nerfed. Granted some things need to be changed and tweaked, but it is how EA gets the info to change these things that bothers me and alot of other people.

The sad part is, when someone posts here on stratics about something being changed, you get alot of the comments " Yep, totally agree". Even though, half the people that post for changes dont even have a clue on what the changes involve. Heck, half the people just agree to the change to make their post count go higher or to make themselves feel better and let everyone know that they THINK they know what they are talking about. Anyway, EA then starts looking into why all these people on Stratics are complaining and get the "there must be something wrong with it" attitude. Then, rather than talking to the people that the changes actually involve, and I am not talking about the "appropriate forum" because they are just as corrupted, they talk about it on the main boards. That is the worst possible thing they can do. Why? You get the people that think they should be able do anything in game everyone else does, you get the people that think everything is unfair, you get the people that dont want to work for anything and you get the people that just want to be included in everything and want to make friends. Although some of you reading this have insight on certain things and know that some things need to be changed, the majority that call for a change have no clue. EA should talk specifically to the group that the changes involve.

This is just an example: Pet balls need changing. EA/Mythic shouldnt talk to anyone about this other than Tamers and those directly involved. ie. PvPer's. Then when someone brought up about changing the pet balls, you had people that had never even been to Fel or even played a Tamer screaming for a change.
Heck, some of the people that wanted a change havent even played UO for years. My personal opinion, yes they needed to change, and yes, I have a tamer thats doesnt go to fel and a a couple Fel chars that PvP. See, since I have at least one of the prerequisites ( Tamer and actively PvP ), I can ask for it to be looked at. Now, someone who has a house in fel but doesnt PvP or have a Tamer shouldnt have the right to guide the nerf bat or even put their 2 cents in.

EA/Mythic should only use the feedback forms that are sent in and then talk to those involved. If someone has something that needs changed that involves Archers, EA/Mythic should ask for Archers input. And when I say Archers, I mean the ones that play them, not those who are waiting around to see if the Archery system gets enhanced so they dont have to learn how to play correctly. The same goes for any profession, Crafters, Fighters, RPer's, Idocer's...anyone. When doing investigations into possible changes, people that want to have a say in whether or not something gets implemented should have to prove they have a char directly involved with the possible changes. Not use biased and poisoned forums where everyone, even if they have no clue what they are talking about, has a chance to guide UO in the direction of torment and inconsistency.

 

[Babble]

So we get changes like randomizing resources, as an expansion that may be made can build on it.

Developers think they know mmorpgs and still lose millions of dollars in their releases. Especially EA developers are very successful at producing failures and you want that we leave most things to them?

 

[Guest]

When the game came out, it was rated, "M" for mature. When they lowerd the rating, this ruined the game as we know it now, from waht it was when it started, and what it was intended to be. imhop.

 

[Guest]

<blockquote><hr>

EA/Mythic should only use the feedback forms that are sent in and then talk to those involved.

[/ QUOTE ]
Shouldn't you have used the feedback form for this?


( But to be less flippant about it, I think its usually good to air out at least some major changes before a wider audience to get a wider sense of who will feel impacted. I fully admit I sometimes throw my $0.02 into discussions on systems that don't impact me at all, just because I'm interested in understanding all things about game design and I can't learn without sticking my toes into the middle of it. )

 

[Kylie Kinslayer]

I can understand that line of thinking. However, imo you would be limiting yourself to just the intelligence level and problem solving skills of a small number of folks. Recently the Devs have shown they are listening a little more to the player base than they have in the past. The threads on pet balls for example seemed to be more of a brainstorming session to come up with a decent fix for the major problem. Yes the decision to make the changes impacted other areas but during the brainstorming even those points were discussed/argued. There were some productive "what if" scenarios that were presented by former players that more than likely been overlooked if not for their input as well.

Once the proposed fix hits test shard for testing however no opinions/ideas/feedback should be allowed except from those that have actually logged on and tested the new workings. Just my .02 for what it's worth.

 

[Fluffi]

With respect, how do you limit who actually gets to add their opinion to any debate?

In todays environment of multiple characters and accounts, who do you exclude?


Crafting? I guess that the vast majority of UO subscribers have a crafting character somewhere on their account. Do you ignore these people, and concentrate on the 10-account BoD runners when it comes to discussing potential changes?
If you decide to make expressing an opinion open to everybody, do you weigh opinions in favour of those who have multiple crafters?

Taming? Most people have encountered a tamer during their UO gaming, whether it be PvM or PvP, or from the winning side or from the losing side. So all those people have a say.

PvP changes? I often wonder how many of the "Trammies" have a PvP blue, or even a red tucked-away somewhere on their account. They all get an equal say.


If your "qualified to comment" comment criteria is based on the characters that people play, then my opinion will count in every discussion except cartography, detect hidden, remove trap and item ID, as I have GM'd every other skill. (I would have GM'd item ID as well if it wasn't bugged.)

I also PvP and PvM using several templates.


So, now that we have established that I am the fount of all knowledge about everything except Treasure Hunting, I, for one, will continue to contribute to any topic on which I have an opinion.


I am not suggesting that there aren't more experienced/better PvPers, Tamers, Necros, Cooks or Beggars, but the simple fact that I play a wide range of templates should make my opinion count in any discussion concerning those templates.

 

[the 4th man]

I want to say you're right, but the devs wouldn't get an even keel, no matter how they tried.

The game did go to crap when they lowered the rating, and brought in the kids.

The devs they hire....well, they did screw up along the way. You can't ask a kid to create in a world that mature people have known. Just like I wouldn't know jack about Harry Potter......

 

[Slapshot]

i remember that!

 

[Slapshot]

I've been beating poor Jeremy's brains sooo much this week, am hellbent on using the feedback forums every day that i thihnk of something that needs attention, or if i just had an idea about something.

I urge others to do the same and i am hoping EA sees the need about using player polls ingame or email or whatever have you, and attempts to hit a much wider audience than it currently endeavors to.

 

[Guest]

I think you are 100% completely wrong. An open forum allows the best possible discussions to be laid out before you clearly.

The reason the tamers pet balls got changed, is because it was OBVIOUS that every post could clearly explain what the problems were, and even give a few examples of suggest fixes. After a long discussion of different possiblity for fixes the core of the poster came to a fairly good list of 3-5 changes, and what to know what happened? 4 of those 5 changes suggested went directly into the game, and now its great, tamers aren't stealthing around being super overpowered anymore.

UO doesn't have 100,000 people posting here. Its a small enough community relativlely compared to other MMORPGS, that we can all sit here and have dicussions that actually affect the game and show what/where the player base actually wants the game going.

If the devs would have more open discussions/votes about important issues this game could grow into something we can all stand for another 10 years.

 

[Guest]

It's more than just who they listen to, the problem is that the developers rely on feedback from the general players, period. This shows lack of a first-hand detailed understanding of the game's mechanics, lack of current first-hand experience, and most sorely, lack of vision.

It's not the second-hand developer's fault though, EA is mainly to blame for the direction UO has taken. The EA corporation is more interested in immediate profits than developing a great balanced game for the long-haul. To fill that need, they try to appease the masses for the short-term, regardless of what the effect is on the overall game in the long-run.

The only way EA could ever begin undoing this fateful cycle of UO development (destruction), is to appoint another visionary like Richard Garriot to head UO development and give him all the freedom and control he needs. You can't build a good game based upon what the public wants - they all want to be the richest most successful player.

It takes experience, talent, and a true passion for what you are doing.

http://mmorpg.com/blogs/sempiternal/112007/695_Why-Electronic-Arts-Ultima-Online-Sucks

 

[Guest]

Or just reappoint Garriott. (probably won't happen, but hey, I can hope can't I?

)

 

[jagarr]

<blockquote><hr>

You can't build a good game based upon what the public wants - they all want to be the richest most successful player. It takes experience and talent.

http://mmorpg.com/blogs/sempiternal/112007/695_Why-Electronic-Arts-Ultima-Online-Sucks



[/ QUOTE ]

dead on. i just posted about this in another thread... the 'why don't they listen?' one. listening to the community is the WORST thing you can do for a struggling MMO.

 

[Guest]

So being part of the community ... you're saying you don't want developers to listen to you when you say that?

 

[Guest]

You always listen to the community, but you don't develop your game to suit what even the majority of players appear to desire.

 

[Guest]

But you're saying they shouldn't listen to you when you say they shouldn't listen to you. So if they listen, they aren't listening and if they don't listen then they are listening. But that means ... wait, I'm lost.

edit: ok, poor choice of wording on my part. I know what you're saying, but what suits you and what suits me are very different things.

 

[Guest]

<blockquote><hr>

You always listen to the community, but you don't develop your game to suit what even the majority of players appear to desire.

[/ QUOTE ]

NOBODY is talking about developing the game "to suit what ever the majority of the players appear to desire"

Its about making game play MORE FUN, not just giving everybody what they want. Its already being ruined by people who can't understand that if we dont convice the devs how to fix this game that t hey are just going to constantly put new expansions out that make more mess of things than the last one, i mean thats what happend for a while.

Now the devs finally getting on fixing stuff again and not ridiculous expansions and releases this game can be improved not just made bigger with more content.

 

[Guest]

It is like in Football. The Fans complain about the play calling. But, if the coach listens to the Fans, in a while he will be sitting right there with them. hehe

The majority is NOT always right, and do not always ask for what is best for the game. Sometimes the 2 decisions are the same. Sometimes Not. If what is best for the Game, would hurt your play style, would you still want it done?

Why do you think, Order/Chaos system was done away with. This was good for the game. But a majority of the players wanted the order or chaos sheild, without having to ever be attacked for having it.

If it was up to the, Majority of the players, felucia would have a, "PvP", switch, so you could go there and not be attacked if you did not want to be. This is why the game has changed so much, "mostly for the worse", becuase the players are usually wrong when it comes to asking for what is in the best interest of the game, vs, what is in their own best interest.

More people have quit UO, than are currently playing it. The PROOF is in the subscription numbers. imhop

 

[Lady-Tor]

Somone thinks a little to deeply into what is just a game.

Be Happy!

 

[Guest]

<blockquote><hr>

I am not out to make friends, or worry about who's toes I am stepping on. I just want everyone to know what is going on with the UO as we know it. Before I get flamed, I am not saying that everything about Stratics is horrible, just some broken directions. Whether this post includes you or if it doesnt, that is yours to call. Everyone wants this changed or that changed, this nerfed or that nerfed. Granted some things need to be changed and tweaked, but it is how EA gets the info to change these things that bothers me and alot of other people.

The sad part is, when someone posts here on stratics about something being changed, you get alot of the comments " Yep, totally agree". Even though, half the people that post for changes dont even have a clue on what the changes involve. Heck, half the people just agree to the change to make their post count go higher or to make themselves feel better and let everyone know that they THINK they know what they are talking about. Anyway, EA then starts looking into why all these people on Stratics are complaining and get the "there must be something wrong with it" attitude. Then, rather than talking to the people that the changes actually involve, and I am not talking about the "appropriate forum" because they are just as corrupted, they talk about it on the main boards. That is the worst possible thing they can do. Why? You get the people that think they should be able do anything in game everyone else does, you get the people that think everything is unfair, you get the people that dont want to work for anything and you get the people that just want to be included in everything and want to make friends. Although some of you reading this have insight on certain things and know that some things need to be changed, the majority that call for a change have no clue. EA should talk specifically to the group that the changes involve.

This is just an example: Pet balls need changing. EA/Mythic shouldnt talk to anyone about this other than Tamers and those directly involved. ie. PvPer's. Then when someone brought up about changing the pet balls, you had people that had never even been to Fel or even played a Tamer screaming for a change.
Heck, some of the people that wanted a change havent even played UO for years. My personal opinion, yes they needed to change, and yes, I have a tamer thats doesnt go to fel and a a couple Fel chars that PvP. See, since I have at least one of the prerequisites ( Tamer and actively PvP ), I can ask for it to be looked at. Now, someone who has a house in fel but doesnt PvP or have a Tamer shouldnt have the right to guide the nerf bat or even put their 2 cents in.

EA/Mythic should only use the feedback forms that are sent in and then talk to those involved. If someone has something that needs changed that involves Archers, EA/Mythic should ask for Archers input. And when I say Archers, I mean the ones that play them, not those who are waiting around to see if the Archery system gets enhanced so they dont have to learn how to play correctly. The same goes for any profession, Crafters, Fighters, RPer's, Idocer's...anyone. When doing investigations into possible changes, people that want to have a say in whether or not something gets implemented should have to prove they have a char directly involved with the possible changes. Not use biased and poisoned forums where everyone, even if they have no clue what they are talking about, has a chance to guide UO in the direction of torment and inconsistency.

[/ QUOTE ]

There's an idea! Only take imput from archers when adjusting archery... That'll GUARNTEE that archery NEVER becomes overpowered... *rolls eyes*

While I agree that non-players should not be taken very seriously, ANYONE with an active account should have equal say in how the game is changed, which is how it basically is now.

The problem, if any, is that the 1% of UO players who post on stratics seem to have a greater say in how things change.

Best if the devs stopped reading these boards altogether, and let each player submit feedback directly through the game client.


BTW, I , who hardly ever sets foot in Fel, never actively PvPs, and has never completed a Tamer, HAS EVERY RIGHT to give imput on changes to Petballs, since I use one in my pack to summon my pet ferret. The peoblem is the holier-than-thou attitude that many PvPers take to claim that ONLY they should be allowed to discuss balance changes. Almost any change to almost any system effects EVERYBODY who plays.

 

[joblackjon]

I've worked in marketing and advertsing and the client that doesn't listen to his customers is not in business for long unless they are brilliant mind readers.

I worked with mainly two ways of listening to customers.

Focus groups (8-12 people in a room discussing the product) which is very much like Stratic's boards. It's a free-form discussion with side trips, idiots, monopolizers or loudmouths and a little structure imposed by a moderator. This is very similar to Stratics. The Devs should use Stratics to get ideas but not to decide if an idea is good or should be implemented.

Another method of listening to customers is the statistical survey. Highly structured and controlled, even the sample of respondents is often controlled. Surveys are used to make decisions: 75% want this and 25% want that. This is something the Devs should employ much more. The ideas generated from Stratics should be tested with surveys that appear when you log into the game, one survey per account. This way no one loudmouth or frequent poster can appear to be a majority. And yes, I believe the guy with ten accounts should get ten votes! Just like shareholders in company...more shares more votes.

 

[Karthcove]

Interesting reading.

To me the game has lost some of its challenge. When a lot of us first started playing every time you logged on you were playing for the pink slips of all your items - from a thief attempting to steal your power katana or the "Famous Reds" (who's names were posted with a bounty at the banks) catching you on the road to Minoc.

Today, it is like an arcade game - put enough quarters in and you win. The game is no longer how much experience you gain while enjoying the game as how many real dollars/euros/yen your willing to spend.

Best changes - Followers/pet slots, One house per account, resource usage.

Worst changes - Insurance and bags of sending.

 

[imported_kinney42]

<blockquote><hr>

Now, someone who has a house in fel but doesnt PvP or have a Tamer shouldnt have the right to guide the nerf bat or even put their 2 cents in.



[/ QUOTE ]

You wanna know where we all get the RIGHT to toss out 2 cents wherever the heck we want? Here's a clue.......

Monthly Subscription.

You don't like it, then stop paying yours.

 

[Flanuva101]

<blockquote><hr>

I think you are 100% completely wrong. An open forum allows the best possible discussions to be laid out before you clearly.

The reason the tamers pet balls got changed, is because it was OBVIOUS that every post could clearly explain what the problems were, and even give a few examples of suggest fixes. After a long discussion of different possiblity for fixes the core of the poster came to a fairly good list of 3-5 changes, and what to know what happened? 4 of those 5 changes suggested went directly into the game, and now its great, tamers aren't stealthing around being super overpowered anymore.

UO doesn't have 100,000 people posting here. Its a small enough community relativlely compared to other MMORPGS, that we can all sit here and have dicussions that actually affect the game and show what/where the player base actually wants the game going.

If the devs would have more open discussions/votes about important issues this game could grow into something we can all stand for another 10 years.

[/ QUOTE ]

I dont think I am 100% completely wrong at all. The only thing an open forum brings to the tables is responses from some people that have no clue what is going on. If, after EA/Mythic talks to the people that the changes effect and get a better idea of what things should be changed and how, then they could bring it to the open forum and allow everyone to talk about it to see if any more tweaks are warranted. But only bring it to the forum only after everything is discussed with the correct people. Example...you are the President of a large company. You just found out that you need to correct a few management issues in order to make more money and save your company. You dont go and talk to the people in the mailroom about management issues, you talk to your managers. Common Sense.

As far as having the devs having more open discussions/votes about important issues, i somewhat agree. If it is a world change or or any other change that isnt class specific, great. Let them bring it to the open forum. If it is class specific, let them discuss it with only with the correct classes.

 

[Guest]

<blockquote><hr>

The only thing an open forum brings to the tables is responses from some people that have no clue what is going on.

[/ QUOTE ]
So again I have to ask ... if this is what you really believe, why are you posting it on an open forum?

 

[Flanuva101]

<blockquote><hr>

BTW, I , who hardly ever sets foot in Fel, never actively PvPs, and has never completed a Tamer, HAS EVERY RIGHT to give imput on changes to Petballs, since I use one in my pack to summon my pet ferret. The peoblem is the holier-than-thou attitude that many PvPers take to claim that ONLY they should be allowed to discuss balance changes. Almost any change to almost any system effects EVERYBODY who plays.

[/ QUOTE ]

You should, in no way have input in how pet balls should be changed. What, you are going to take a ferret into fel and attack someone over and over again while running beside him? The new changes have minimal impact in Tram.

Obviously you didnt understand the comment about archers or any of it to be honest. After the devs get ideas on how to change the class, be it an overpowered issue or bug, then they should talk to the specific class to find out what would be the best way to approach it.

Everytime, someone at EA/Mythic swings the nerf bat, classes go from being overpowered to not being worth anything. Why? Open forums where people go to the extremes and everyone tries to get a hand on the bat. That is the reason UO is dying.

 

[Flanuva101]

<blockquote><hr>

<blockquote><hr>

Now, someone who has a house in fel but doesnt PvP or have a Tamer shouldnt have the right to guide the nerf bat or even put their 2 cents in.



[/ QUOTE ]

You wanna know where we all get the RIGHT to toss out 2 cents wherever the heck we want? Here's a clue.......

Monthly Subscription.

You don't like it, then stop paying yours.

[/ QUOTE ]

I apologize, you should have the RIGHT to throw your 2 cents in wherever you want.
The devs should just donate it to a charity.

You have a right to discuss things that effects you and your gameplay, but if you are a person that does DOOM all the time or crafts all the time, why should you have a say in how houses fall at idocs or what happens in Fel. You shouldnt, because it DOESNT affect you.

Oh and this....

<blockquote><hr>

Monthly Subscription.

You don't like it, then stop paying yours.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is why UO is going downhill....People with that mentality. Thank you, you just made the perfect example.

 

[Fayled Dhreams]

Well ... it was a try ... not fair or nice or good ... however ya want to rank it ..
it WAS a try ...

Just had a bad premise ...

You have a right to discuss things that effects you and your gameplay, but if you are a person that does DOOM all the time or crafts all the time, why should you have a say in how houses fall at idocs or what happens in Fel. You shouldnt, because it DOESNT affect you.

Scritters pay and play ... by your premise ... since they don't actually affect my particular set of templates ...

I'm allowed no direct input?

I don't religiously "do" IDOC's ... time to shut-up the ol'Fayled then eh?
I've only ghosted thru DOOM ... and quite a while ago at that ... shouldn't be offering suggestions then ... on how to fix the nix? TSK !
I don't rely on tamer pets ... so no need to try and address auto-rezing or deeds on vendors ...

too complex to figure it out without firsthand experience.

Just had a bad premise ... from WHO ? on what "basis" ?
by virtue of your authority ...err ..

on ... in ... by .... WHAT?

nahhh .... SnR maybe ...

 

[imported_Heartseeker]

I find your posts offensive, and have serious doubts about your sanity.

Get a clue.

All people have a say, including the guys in the mailroom.

Your logic only makes sense to someone in a straight jacket.

 

[Flanuva101]

<blockquote><hr>

I find your posts offensive, and have serious doubts about your sanity.

Get a clue.

All people have a say, including the guys in the mailroom.

Your logic only makes sense to someone in a straight jacket.

[/ QUOTE ]

I apologize if you find the posts offensive, maybe this subject pertains to you then. I am also sorry that people like you do not accept change for fear of being left out. If the devs are confronted with an issue about gameplay or issues, they should first talk to the group that is most affected and then if they want to, and only after debate and direction is settled , open it up for minor tweaks. Not just throw the whole revamp into the mix and get everything misconstrued and diluted with propaganda.

<blockquote><hr>

All people have a say, including the guys in the mailroom.

[/ QUOTE ]

The people in the mailroom are in the mailroom for a reason. They either have no direction in life or they are working on starting from the ground up to try and make something of themselves. Either way, their opinions on subject matter that they know nothing about, let alone rely on them to led lead the company in a new direction would just be asenine.

Glad you arent a CEO of a company, your investors or Board of Directors would put you in the mailroom.

I do have a clue friend, thats why I care on which direction UO is heading. Why would you find my posts offensive? Like I said before, not all people should be involved in certain aspects of game development or feedback. If that offends you and makes you fell left out of making decisions for everyone else, I am sorry.

 

[Silly Seadog]

Arrrr, I once done flew over a cuckoo's nest!

 

[imported_Heartseeker]

What I find offensive is the way you compartmentalize individual people.

Most companies would fare far better if they took their workers advice.

But with your philosophy, I suppose you would choose politicians to run your country instead of the people.

 

[Guest]

Not that they really listen to Stratics or they would have reversed the stupid random ressources and changed/reversed the BoS changes.

 

[Connor_Graham]

"You dont go and talk to the people in the mailroom about management issues, you talk to your managers. Common Sense. "

A GOOD manager of the "managers with issues" WOULD talk to the mailroom employees and any other workers that reported directly to those managers to get a "popular opinion" take on those managers.

 

[Flanuva101]

<blockquote><hr>

"You dont go and talk to the people in the mailroom about management issues, you talk to your managers. Common Sense. "

A GOOD manager of the "managers with issues" WOULD talk to the mailroom employees and any other workers that reported directly to those managers to get a "popular opinion" take on those managers.

[/ QUOTE ]

My point exactly Connor, Thank you. It would be the manager of the mailroom speaking for everyone in the mailroom to take to the other managers. Thank you for reading into the example. All I ever wanted to do with this thread is to encourage everyone to think. Think of new directions, new horizons, heck, new whatever. Not get stuck in the same grind.

Oh....since the general consensus is to have everyone input their ideas, I started a new thread. Please, no name calling in that thread.

Oh, and Connor, I love the one liner below your Signature

 

[Sergul'zan_SP]

<blockquote><hr>


EA/Mythic should only use the feedback forms that are sent in and then talk to those involved. If someone has something that needs changed that involves Archers, EA/Mythic should ask for Archers input. And when I say Archers, I mean the ones that play them, not those who are waiting around to see if the Archery system gets enhanced so they dont have to learn how to play correctly.


[/ QUOTE ]

EA: Do you as an archer feel you are overpowered?

Archer: Ummm.....noooooo!!!!

Player archer beat: Archers are overpowered!!11!!

Archer who is overpowered: Adapt!!!!11!

I personally think it's a poor showing for EA that these huge game imbalances appear in the game publish after publish. I can understand bugs and exploits - they are bound to rear their ugly heads on occasion - but poor planning in the first place is to blame for all these nerfings.

An archer is a warrior who can attack as a mage without interruption. They are virtually impossible to completely balance because of this. Notice the number of archers around these days? Notice how bows tend to be the fastest selling product? There's a reason for that, but I'll leave that up to you to determine why that is the case.

This whole system needs an overhaul - it's just plain broken. Let's see what abuse template resurfaces after the tamers dissappear (if they dissappear)...

 

[Guest]

My opinion........... UO Rated "M" for mature...... I miss those days....