Why is it OK for someone to make you client crash?

[Lord X]

So here's the deal.... On LS we have a TB guild that uses Candelabras to help defend sigils in their base. Now I know these and bagballs have been used for years for this purpose, as long as there is at least one path open (you can of course field that path). But the other day they completely blocked their bridge all the way across with them (6 tiles). Not only did they do this, but they also put so many on all the tiles that anyone that came within a tile from ANY stack of them would immediately client crash. So some of us got statted because we were forced out of the game while TB would just shoot at us through the closed gate. During some of these times we crashed again because you guessed it... we were still in the danger spot when we logged back in. This was paged on by at least 3 different people in our guild. Eventually we made it thru because either a GM removed one stack (half of us or more still crashed going thru it due to the stack next to it) or our stealther finally removed enough of them after crashing 20 times himself.


Now today, TB was guarding sigils once more. This time they were back to almost the throne room, and fielding the hell out of the little room before it that you have to go through to get in. This time they placed 4 stacks of candelabras on the floor above that room. This effectively led to us crashing every time we made a push into the room. All the while they just had to stand behind it in the doorway and cast/shoot. This time you couldn't even remove the candelabras by hand because they weren't even on a floor that you could reach. So because they did this, they OBVIOUSLY know that its causing people to crash. Otherwise those candelabras would be worthless on the floor above. Again 3+ people paged on this and nothing happened. Couple hours went by and they had their sigils.


I find it hard to believe that this type of obvious exploit/cheating isn't punished.

 

[Nonel]

Faction bases are the one place you do not have to leave a path. Sort of an exception to the game's rules, as long as you're within the base zones. Experienced factioners have been using total blockades for many years (Though back before AoS, we were more creative about it...weighed tinker-trapped crates, anyone?).

In some cases, our bagballs/candelabras numbered in the many thousands (100+ per tile). It didn't really cause lag, much less crash clients. I am surprised to hear of this happening, now. I don't doubt you, as I've been out of the faction game for a year now. A newer development, nonetheless.

 

[Vyal]

 

[Lord X]

Faction bases are the one place you do not have to leave a path. Sort of an exception to the game's rules, as long as you're within the base zones. Experienced factioners have been using total blockades for many years (Though back before AoS, we were more creative about it...weighed tinker-trapped crates, anyone?).

In some cases, our bagballs/candelabras numbered in the many thousands (100+ per tile). It didn't really cause lag, much less crash clients. I am surprised to hear of this happening, now. I don't doubt you, as I've been out of the faction game for a year now. A newer development, nonetheless.

I am not sure how many it takes per tile but I accidentally replicated this years ago myself while training tinkering on my mule. I wasn't paying attention and my bag was spilling over onto the ground. Later when walking into my house I crashed every time. Took awhile to figure it out, but i finally realized it was the candelabras that totaled over 100. Think I'll actually log on and figure out exactly how many it takes. Someone on LS knows and is exploiting it .

Thanks for the info on the base zone exception on total blockade though.

 

[Lord X]

Ok, tested it out.... it crashes you if there's between 235 and 291 candelabras on the same tile. Little excessive for JUST blockade if you ask me.

 

[Widow Maker]

Ok, tested it out.... it crashes you if there's between 235 and 291 candelabras on the same tile. Little excessive for JUST blockade if you ask me.

Been done for years and years.

 

[Lord X]

Been done for years and years.

That may be true, but it still begs the thread question: Why is it OK?

 

[Kellgory]

As far as blocking the bases, as long as it is behind the sign up stone it is anything goes. If it is in front of the stone where anyone can go, then it has to have a path and you can't use vendors to block as well. As far as placing so many on one tile that it causes crashes, I'm not sure very many people were aware that it could be done....until now that is. I thougt I had read in a post many years ago that gm's were removing some items from bases if they were done in excess. That was many years ago and not sure if gm's would still do it. It could also be how you paged. If you just said that TB blocked their base, then they wouldn't do anything, but if you mentioned they were stacking X number of items per square to cause client crashes and the whole base was do that way, then they might check it out.

 

[Luvmylace]

Faction bases are the one place you do not have to leave a path. Sort of an exception to the game's rules, as long as you're within the base zones. Experienced factioners have been using total blockades for many years (Though back before AoS, we were more creative about it...weighed tinker-trapped crates, anyone?).

In some cases, our bagballs/candelabras numbered in the many thousands (100+ per tile). It didn't really cause lag, much less crash clients. I am surprised to hear of this happening, now. I don't doubt you, as I've been out of the faction game for a year now. A newer development, nonetheless.

That is just false . You must leave one path to traverse .This was told to me when I paged for that very reason

 

[Widow Maker]

That is just false . You must leave one path to traverse .This was told to me when I paged for that very reason

You are wrong..worse yet..the GM was VERY wrong and ...once again...shows the people in charge of this game have absolutely no clue what they are doing or how this game is played. Pathetic, really.

Kellgory is 100% correct.

 

[Widow Maker]

That may be true, but it still begs the thread question: Why is it OK?

I can't believe I am having to actually tell you this;

The answer is: To keep you out of my base for 10 hours. Simple, really.

If you do not know how to avoid and even use the blockage to your extreme advantage, then I hope you gain that wisdom some time soon.

 

[weins201]

The path does NOT have to be left in a base but that is not the point

The point is that placing 100 in a box then placing them on a tile and axing the box which is the ONLY way to get that many one place since after placing about 8 on one tile will be too high for any more is an EXPLOIT, and therefore ILLEGAL.

It is a way of circumventing general game mechanics!!!!:gun:

:bowdown:If you are in factions an Legally block you path in by PLACING candelabras on top of each other and completely block the way in / out you are GtG.

BUT if you place 124 in a box place the box and ax it to get 200+ on one tile you are exploiting. I hope you get caught and banned for that.

Guard your base a legal way or risk not being able to play ever again.

Too bad some of you chose to exploit and bug the game to death.

 

[goldenpower]

solution: completely re-vamp or remove factions

 

[Woodsman]

solution: completely re-vamp or remove factions

Or fix the client problems.

Or fix (ban/suspend) the people who are deliberately crashing clients.

Or all three

 

[lucitus]

But you are talking about the 2d client or?

 

[virtualhabitat]

The axed pouch/crate is an exploit?

Hmm -maybe we should ban people who use it for deco purposes while we're at it.

This is right up there with the insidious green thorn exploit that handicapped so many of Sosaria's best in the pvp community.

 

[tuuvaak]

solution: completely re-vamp or remove factions

i had a really long sarcastic post typed out about pvp and then i decided that this basically is the answer. ill save you all the five minutes though and not post it.

 

[Tina Small]

Here's a link to an archived version of the July 3, 2008 Five On Friday where our old EA community representative, Jeremy Dahlberg, reiterated the rules for what you can and cannot do with regard to using blocking items in and near faction strongholds:

ORIGIN - Ultima Online - Main

For anyone who doesn't want to use the link, here's the Q&A:

"What are the rules regarding blocking off areas in faction warfare?"

There are a couple of different possible cases - here is the breakdown:

• Faction Vendors: There MUST be a path between or around them. If there is not, the GMs will take action.
• In A Faction City (but not in the stronghold): If there are items placed in such a way that other players can't move them easily (many many candelabras on one tile, for example) the GMs will take action.
• In A Faction Stronghold: Anything goes.

If the GMs are forced to take action in any case, they will delete the items/vendors that are blocking a player's path. The faction signup stone is a good indication of where a faction stronghold begins. Keeping that in mind, any blocking that occurs outside of that area may warrant action​

 

[weins201]

Ok Smart guy since you want to Knit pic

The axed pouch/crate is an exploit?

Axing a crate or pouch is not an exploit --- It is however if you use it to place more than what normally would be allowed on one tile. If you cant wrap your brain around that well I am sorry.

Hmm -maybe we should ban people who use it for deco purposes while we're at it.

This is right up there with the insidious green thorn exploit that handicapped so many of Sosaria's best in the pvp community.

:gun: Again the placing of a green thorn IS an expoit when used in a Spawn area because it allows you to jump in the hole an RECALL out from there EXPLOIT.

Man some people are

 

[Poo]

you know what, i find this post VERY informative.

im IN TB on LS and i walked in the other day and saw these new TB guys doing a defense.

as i walked up BOOM my UO didnt just crash, it exploded!

i was walking along then the game was totally gone..... in the blink of an eye.

so i reloaded the game, took a step, game gone.

reloaded, took a step, game gone.

i was in shock, ive never had this happen before.

so i turned to my new computer and logged in, same thing, took a step, game was gone instantly.

i was in shock!

i have never had that happen before.
i got the feeling that something wasnt right going on there, so i left figuring i didnt wanna be there when the GMs arrived to sort the problem out, haha.

 

[Widow Maker]

Here's a link to an archived version of the July 3, 2008 Five On Friday where our old EA community representative, Jeremy Dahlberg, reiterated the rules for what you can and cannot do with regard to using blocking items in and near faction strongholds:

ORIGIN - Ultima Online - Main

For anyone who doesn't want to use the link, here's the Q&A:

"What are the rules regarding blocking off areas in faction warfare?"

There are a couple of different possible cases - here is the breakdown:

• Faction Vendors: There MUST be a path between or around them. If there is not, the GMs will take action.
• In A Faction City (but not in the stronghold): If there are items placed in such a way that other players can't move them easily (many many candelabras on one tile, for example) the GMs will take action.
• In A Faction Stronghold: Anything goes.

If the GMs are forced to take action in any case, they will delete the items/vendors that are blocking a player's path. The faction signup stone is a good indication of where a faction stronghold begins. Keeping that in mind, any blocking that occurs outside of that area may warrant action​

Thank you Tina.

 

[Flutter]

Here's a link to an archived version of the July 3, 2008 Five On Friday where our old EA community representative, Jeremy Dahlberg, reiterated the rules for what you can and cannot do with regard to using blocking items in and near faction strongholds:

ORIGIN - Ultima Online - Main

For anyone who doesn't want to use the link, here's the Q&A:

"What are the rules regarding blocking off areas in faction warfare?"

There are a couple of different possible cases - here is the breakdown:

• Faction Vendors: There MUST be a path between or around them. If there is not, the GMs will take action.
• In A Faction City (but not in the stronghold): If there are items placed in such a way that other players can't move them easily (many many candelabras on one tile, for example) the GMs will take action.
• In A Faction Stronghold: Anything goes.

If the GMs are forced to take action in any case, they will delete the items/vendors that are blocking a player's path. The faction signup stone is a good indication of where a faction stronghold begins. Keeping that in mind, any blocking that occurs outside of that area may warrant action​

Quoted for emphasis.

 

[SugarSmacks]

Let me tell you something i saw TB blocking the entire path on that shard by breaking boxes. I was like wow ok i paged a gm, i get the gm message that "its being investigated", meantime the guy i paged on (still visible on my screen) takes 2 boxes over and bust them stacked on each other with candelabras.

Did the GM do something? No nothing

And really why should faction bases be exempt from this rule?

How pathetic are you at pvp where you have resorted to totally blockcading the path where you crash your opponent?

Is a pinch point and faction traps not enough?

I laugh at people that join factions just to do this, you dont want to pvp, get out of fel LOL!

BTW UO is 15 years old if you think your winning by getting the sigs then LOL!

 

[Poo]

Let me tell you something i saw TB blocking the entire path on that shard by breaking boxes. I was like wow ok i paged a gm, i get the gm message that "its being investigated", meantime the guy i paged on (still visible on my screen) takes 2 boxes over and bust them stacked on each other with candelabras.

Did the GM do something? No nothing

And really why should faction bases be exempt from this rule?

How pathetic are you at pvp where you have resorted to totally blockcading the path where you crash your opponent?

Is a pinch point and faction traps not enough?

I laugh at people that join factions just to do this, you dont want to pvp, get out of fel LOL!

BTW UO is 15 years old if you think your winning by getting the sigs then LOL!

In A Faction Stronghold: Anything goes.

so why would he do anything.
they have openly stated they wouldn't.

but i have to agree.
there is a difference between blocking off the base and making people crash by putting so much crap down.
that is a little over the top.

 

[Lord X]

I can't believe I am having to actually tell you this;

The answer is: To keep you out of my base for 10 hours. Simple, really.

No, that is why you are doing it. That is NOT why its OK to do it. People kill someone in rl for being their wife's secret lover sometimes. They get tossed in jail no matter how justified they think it is. It is still WRONG. Same in this circumstance. It is still wrong to do this. But yet, because a GM is not doing anything it seems it is OK. But WHY is it OK? Why is this BS allowed?

If you do not know how to avoid and even use the blockage to your extreme advantage, then I hope you gain that wisdom some time soon.

Use the blockage to my advantage? Yes, make them crash by coming at it. Sounds good! Wait, no matter how damaged I was the other day they never chased me for the kill shot. Oh you say they are perfectly fine behind it? Oh thats right, as long as we don't get past them to steal the sigils thats the goal.

Unless you meant do the same thing guarding our base? Yeah I could do that. I could also run illegal programs to make me run faster then every one else too because a member of the same TB guild justifies it by saying everyone is using it. Still illegal.... but never you mind, its justified because he can say everyone has done it for years. Sorry kinda went off on a tangent there...

 

[Flutter]

This is an old picture someone sent me.
It's not me. But it goes to show how long blocking bases has been going on.
I think back then the box had to be in your backpack in order to axe it (I could be wrong on that point)

Maybe someone familiar with these players can give some background or history.

Anyhow, it's anything goes in the base, and for some it's the fun of inventing new obstacles for your opponents.

 

[Lord X]

Anyhow, it's anything goes in the base, and for some it's the fun of inventing new obstacles for your opponents.

Heh, nice pic. Though that anything goes thing DOESN'T cover the crash inducing. If I go by that justification as long as I am in a faction base I can spam general chat with the R and the N word. Or just spam it at the guys trying to get in.

 

[Poo]

what i use to LOVE about when people would block the bases with all that stuff.

i use to come in, id look down the long hallway, they would wave back and laugh.
then id tell my pets to kill them.

animals are not blocked by chests and candelabras and such.
so the pets would just shoot down the hall and kill the guys that had blocked themselves in.

i would laugh so hard at that.

course, then id have to spend hours moving stuff to get in after that.

 

[lucitus]

what i use to LOVE about when people would block the bases with all that stuff.

i use to come in, id look down the long hallway, they would wave back and laugh.
then id tell my pets to kill them.

animals are not blocked by chests and candelabras and such.
so the pets would just shoot down the hall and kill the guys that had blocked themselves in.

i would laugh so hard at that.

course, then id have to spend hours moving stuff to get in after that.

Hehe yes but animals are blocked by other animals or mobiles so easy to make the barrier a real barrier

 

[Widow Maker]

what i use to LOVE about when people would block the bases with all that stuff.

i use to come in, id look down the long hallway, they would wave back and laugh.
then id tell my pets to kill them.

animals are not blocked by chests and candelabras and such.
so the pets would just shoot down the hall and kill the guys that had blocked themselves in.

i would laugh so hard at that.

course, then id have to spend hours moving stuff to get in after that.

Argh.....!!!!!

Ya just had to spoon feed em again...didn't ya!!!!

It would have been years before they figured it out!!

 

[Widow Maker]

 

[Lynk]

@OP, if you've got a good sized guild, plant your people in the faction base when they're not guarding and get a hide off. log in when they think they're safe and they won't be able to run away.

Fight lameness with more lameness.

 

[Widow Maker]

@OP, if you've got a good sized guild, plant your people in the faction base when they're not guarding and get a hide off. log in when they think they're safe and they won't be able to run away.

Fight lameness with more lameness.

Get's real funny with stealth tamers dragging big mean nasty pets ....

 

[SugarSmacks]

All of that until they switch candelabras for bagballs and update their art files so they can run right over top of them while you cant move.

Dont think its already been done? You dont get around.

Just something else for the gms to ignore.

 

[Widow Maker]

All of that until they switch candelabras for bagballs and update their art files so they can run right over top of them while you cant move.

Dont think its already been done? You dont get around.

Just something else for the gms to ignore.

You can get around / thru candlabras, it involves no art file changes. You just have to know how...

Yet another 'I don't know how they do it so it must be a hack!"...

 

[SugarSmacks]

You can get around / thru candlabras, it involves no art file changes. You just have to know how...

Yet another 'I don't know how they do it so it must be a hack!"...

Its ok youve spent so long hiding from pvp who would expect less.

 

[Woodsman]

Getting back to the OP, imagine if this bug/problem was present in Star Wars.

How quick would BioWare fix it and would the gaming websites care?

 

[Flutter]

All of that until they switch candelabras for bagballs and update their art files so they can run right over top of them while you cant move.

Dont think its already been done? You dont get around.

Just something else for the gms to ignore.

You can get around / thru candlabras, it involves no art file changes. You just have to know how...

Yet another 'I don't know how they do it so it must be a hack!"...

Oh... we know how... but it's an exploit to do so.

 

[MagicStar]

Does that old casting trick still work to run through them?
Was that legal?
No idea just makin suggestions

Still that wouldnt prevent crashes
I never crashed from that so ill have to go see later
If u always crash why dont they?
Is it only when u move and they just stand still?
God so much in this game needs fixin
I dont mind work arounds but i dont wanna get buried

 

[Lord X]

Getting back to the OP, imagine if this bug/problem was present in Star Wars.

How quick would BioWare fix it and would the gaming websites care?

Exactly.

 

[Lord X]

Does that old casting trick still work to run through them?
Was that legal?
No idea just makin suggestions

Still that wouldnt prevent crashes
I never crashed from that so ill have to go see later
If u always crash why dont they?
Is it only when u move and they just stand still?
God so much in this game needs fixin
I dont mind work arounds but i dont wanna get buried

The thing is they dont have to stand THAT close to them. Its only one tile around it that it crashes. So they can stand behind it like 4 tiles and cast/shoot. While to push and get where they are you would have to walk right into it.

Still love how its being justified because theres ways around it or to use as advantage. Thats like speeding on the highway because I have a radar detector. I can get around the cops so what I am doing is not wrong. Oh dear, wheres the blue text when I need it...

 

[Ruppy2]

Let me tell you something ...
BTW UO is 15 years old if you think your winning by getting the sigs then LOL!

So by having more gold, or more rares, or more kills you must be winning at life, right?

There are many opportunities for entertainment within UO.

Jo

 

[SugarSmacks]

So by having more gold, or more rares, or more kills you must be winning at life, right?

There are many opportunities for entertainment within UO.

Jo

The point is no one cares about faction horses or town guards anymore.

Im pretty sure that most people that join factions claim to do it for a fight.

When you hide behind 3 million candelebras and claim "you want a fight" you are a joke.

 

[Kellgory]

People still care about horse vendors, but only when they need them, but for the most part if you run around the towns you can usually find a breeder for your faction since most of the time people don't bother taking the other factions breeder down. As far as using items blocking the bases, I have no problem with it since you have to hold them for 10 hours and I doubt everyone in the guild really wants to sit in the base for that long every 3 days just in case someone raids. It is much easier to block the base a couple rows deep with about 20 items per square with one person either watching or have a trap placed as a early warning, and while their clearing the items it will give the rest of the guild time to come in. I do have a problem if they are intentionally stacking so many items in one spot that anyone that gets near it crashes.

 

[Widow Maker]

Oh... we know how... but it's an exploit to do so.

No exploit Flutter. Pure ingame macros let you bypass candlabras. You just have to know what and how.

Accordning to these kids though, being superior in game experience and game knowledge must be "hacking", because they simply do not have the intelligence nor fortitude to figure it out for themselves.

If they don't have it spoon fed to them by mommy (Devs)..then something must be wrong. Their limited minds simply can not deduce anything else and it is the easiest path for it to take. It is the unfortunate result of catering to the lowest common denominator.

Do not blame them for their shortcomings, nor offend them. In the Darwinian world, the lessers are simply temporary mobile food. We seem to have an unlimited supply of protien ambling around on two legs. We should make far better use of it. I'm pretty full..anyone else want some?

Soylent Green anyone?

 

[Widow Maker]

Its ok youve spent so long hiding from pvp who would expect less.

If I hide from PvP (LOLOLOL), then why are you always dead at my feet and whining in GC, whenever we find you and yours??

And I mean ALWAYS (or at least when we can see something else except your backsides dead running away from me).

But it is ok, we all know your train of thought; If I cant do it or figure it out, it must be a "hack".

Good job there son.

 

[Lord X]

No exploit Flutter. Pure ingame macros let you bypass candlabras. You just have to know what and how.

Accordning to these kids though, being superior in game experience and game knowledge must be "hacking", because they simply do not have the intelligence nor fortitude to figure it out for themselves.

If they don't have it spoon fed to them by mommy (Devs)..then something must be wrong. Their limited minds simply can not deduce anything else and it is the easiest path for it to take. It is the unfortunate result of catering to the lowest common denominator.

Do not blame them for their shortcomings, nor offend them. In the Darwinian world, the lessers are simply temporary mobile food. We seem to have an unlimited supply of protien ambling around on two legs. We should make far better use of it. I'm pretty full..anyone else want some?

Soylent Green anyone?

Hope your'e not refering to the actual main point of the OP. That would be kinda silly.

 

[MagicStar]

Oh... we know how... but it's an exploit to do so.

No exploit Flutter. Pure ingame macros let you bypass candlabras. You just have to know what and how.

Accordning to these kids though, being superior in game experience and game knowledge must be "hacking", because they simply do not have the intelligence nor fortitude to figure it out for themselves.

If they don't have it spoon fed to them by mommy (Devs)..then something must be wrong. Their limited minds simply can not deduce anything else and it is the easiest path for it to take. It is the unfortunate result of catering to the lowest common denominator.

Do not blame them for their shortcomings, nor offend them. In the Darwinian world, the lessers are simply temporary mobile food. We seem to have an unlimited supply of protien ambling around on two legs. We should make far better use of it. I'm pretty full..anyone else want some?

Soylent Green anyone?

I dont know what soylent green is but it sounds like youre talking about eating longpig
If so i say EWWWWW!

 

[Anakena]

Re: The path does NOT have to be left in a base but that is not the point

The point is that placing 100 in a box then placing them on a tile and axing the box which is the ONLY way to get that many one place since after placing about 8 on one tile will be too high for any more is an EXPLOIT, and therefore ILLEGAL.

It is not the ONLY way. You can put them in a packy and tell it to drop, rinse/repeat. I suppose you could also craft them while overloaded (need to verify).

 

[WildWobble]

Soylent green is people!! Damn kids don't know anything anymore!!