Why I don't like the JoaT change, and why it isn't THAT big a deal

[Ezekiel Zane]

Ok, check this out

Popular melee dexxer special moves and mana cost

Armor Ignore, Armor Pierce, Bleed, Double Strike & Mortal (30 mana)
-with even the -10 mana reduction these popular specials cost 20 mana
-if you use one in less than 3 secs since the last they'll cost you 40 mana
-if you don't qualify for the mana reduction it's 30/60, LOL, my dexxer doesn't even have 60 mana he has 55

Popular stealth ninja archer bushido warrior special moves

AI (composite bow only) (30 mana)
Double shot (yumi only) also 30 mana,
-requires bushido or ninjitsu, meaning by default you automatically qualify for the -5
You'll love this one;
Moving shot (heavy xbow only) (15 mana)
-with the full reduction this extremely powerful move only cost 5 mana, spamming it only costs 10 mana
-add 20% LMC and it's costs only 4/8


Do you see the absurdity here? This garbage is undeniably hugely biased to ninja or bushido archers. Paladins are screwed. Pure warriors are screwed.

 

[Konge]

Ok, check this out

Popular melee dexxer special moves and mana cost

Armor Ignore, Armor Pierce, Bleed, Double Strike & Mortal (30 mana)
-with even the -10 mana reduction these popular specials cost 20 mana
-if you use one in less than 3 secs since the last they'll cost you 40 mana
-if you don't qualify for the mana reduction it's 30/60, LOL, my dexxer doesn't even have 60 mana he has 55

Popular stealth ninja archer bushido warrior special moves

AI (composite bow only) (30 mana)
Double shot (yumi only) also 30 mana,
-requires bushido or ninjitsu, meaning by default you automatically qualify for the -5
You'll love this one;
Moving shot (heavy xbow only) (15 mana)
-with the full reduction this extremely powerful move only cost 5 mana, spamming it only costs 10 mana
-add 20% LMC and it's costs only 4/8


Do you see the absurdity here? This garbage is undeniably hugely biased to ninja or bushido archers. Paladins are screwed. Pure warriors are screwed.

You forgot that 40 lmc with the -10 = 12 mana per move thats 30 mana cost.

while, without the -10= 18 mana.

I hope you're not replying to me with that though...

 

[Jesusislord]

I think it's a good move. Too many really stupid templates running around benefiting from maximum mana reduction on special moves. Especially the Dread Mare Archers.. man I hate that template.. and they're always human.

My human Samurai isn't crying. I need, mostly, the extra carry capacity from looting all these sucka's when they drop dead after their 10 armor ignores in a row fail.

My Chiv-Archer (with resist) isn't crying. I just turned that char back into a human and will end up just being a Ninja-Archer or something.. -5 to special moves.. it's good enough, as that char is designed for ganking, and not throwing out chain armor ignores anyways.

 

[A Rev]

I dont really have a problem with the change.

What i do have a problem with is freaking stealth being included on the list of COMBAT skills?!?

Personally i would say Anatomy should be in the list instead...maybe healing instead [i dont think both].

 

[Ezekiel Zane]

I think it's a good move. Too many really stupid templates running around benefiting from maximum mana reduction on special moves. Especially the Dread Mare Archers.. man I hate that template.. and they're always human.

My human Samurai isn't crying. I need, mostly, the extra carry capacity from looting all these sucka's when they drop dead after their 10 armor ignores in a row fail.

My Chiv-Archer (with resist) isn't crying. I just turned that char back into a human and will end up just being a Ninja-Archer or something.. -5 to special moves.. it's good enough, as that char is designed for ganking, and not throwing out chain armor ignores anyways.

Your post it totally hilarious. "Too many stupid templates running around benefiting from maximum mana reduction on special moves." Have you even read any part of this thread? The really friggin stupid templates didn't get changed one bit. Your "samurai isn't crying?" No **** sherlock. Your "chiv archer isn't crying?" Yeah because you're gonna go ninja. Reading comprehension is your friend.

 

[Thav12]

as much as i love to play human dexxers, i think that this is the issue:

getting a discount in mana for skills you dont have is a bit unfair.

I think it is fine you can use JOAT for a little tracking, a little item ID, a chance at loring a pet, maybe even a lucky parry or so when you don't have the actual skill, but it is unfair in nature that you benefit from a discount of 30-40% on mana expense for special moves from skills you don't posses.

For those that are unclear, let me explain what people are complaining about I think:

If you make a dexxer with Parry and Swords at 100, you have 200 points towards the discount. You will get a 5 point mana reduction. People are whining about now loosing an extra 5 point discount because now all the "joker points" for dexxer skills they dont have, e.g. archery 20, ninja 20, fencing, 20, macing 20, bushido 20, those points now do not add to total 300 points. So you loose 5 more points discount.

Please... this is absurd... invest in a bit of skill before you cry wolf. It is a pointless debate really. In PvP those straight up characters were not really perfectly viable anyway (I know, I play one) and it certainly does not matter in PvM because my mana stays at max at all times anyway due to weapon mana leech. As soon as you add a bit of this or that, say 60 bushido, or 60 ninja, you are back at 300 and your discount kicks in (if you have 120 wep, 120 parry e.g.). most dexxer templates already have some kind of hybrid.

The people that cry about this are gimpers in a purist disguise. now, the benefit of getting 5 points discounted is lost when you have a super gimp template that was counting on this discount to survive. like mage/tamer/dex combo templates that are super mana intensive and can only fit two dexxer skills into their template... I think some previous posters were dead on. Read some posts about the dex/mage/tamer combo's and why people love them. I think it is a very smart way of nerfing a very overpowered pvp template in my humble opinion, while hardly affecting anything else in the game. And don't you try to lump me in with trammies or PvP only camps. I am happy and effective in both.

 

[legendsguy]

i'm not exactly sure why people are arguing back and forth when both the answer and solutions were plain as day.

the answer to why this nerf took place was clearly so archers couldn't spam moving shot. that is it. there is no other reason.

the solution would have been to just increase the mana cost for moving cost. of course UO being UO they decided to just screw up everything instead.

really, it makes no sense at all. moving shot was too undercosted so just increase the cost. i seriously doubt anyone would object as everyone had to know it was on the chopping block sooner or later.

but instead we get this. no wonder people are upset.

 

[Thav12]

i'm not exactly sure why people are arguing back and forth when both the answer and solutions were plain as day.

the answer to why this nerf took place was clearly so archers couldn't spam moving shot. that is it. there is no other reason.

the solution would have been to just increase the mana cost for moving cost. of course UO being UO they decided to just screw up everything instead.

really, it makes no sense at all. moving shot was too undercosted so just increase the cost. i seriously doubt anyone would object as everyone had to know it was on the chopping block sooner or later.

but instead we get this. no wonder people are upset.

I think that this may be one of the issues, but it affects other slightly out of tune pvp templates. see my post above yours...
I agree though that the whining should stop. It is actually a reasonably well thought out nerf when you think about it for a few minutes. I know some people were emotionally calling it the end of human kind in UO, but that is just flat out silly. Noone should care about race anyway ;-)

 

[Speaking the Truth]

You forgot that 40 lmc with the -10 = 12 mana per move thats 30 mana cost.

while, without the -10= 18 mana.

I hope you're not replying to me with that though...

Konge keeps bringing up valid points over and over.

Whoever was saying elves are better in every way I have to disagree with you, respectfully of course. As someone who only pvps I feel that humans still get abilities that are far to good to pass up.

Also to people saying it only affect dexers is wrong. What about tank mages? Wrestle mages? They won't hit 300 skill points. So why aren't people complaining about them?

Also Ezekiel Zane you keep bringing up templates that will be nerfed you only say archery. Every fighting skill is going to be changed equally, I'm not sure why you keep only saying archery as if anyone swords, fencing, or macing isn't going to get changed as well?

 

[Ezekiel Zane]

getting a discount in mana for skills you dont have is a bit unfair.

That is NOT what the major debate is over. You'll get no argument from me on THAT issue. REad my posts. Now explain why stealth ninjas archers, samurai archers, stealth ninja archer TAMERS and DP dexxers rate STILL continuing to get the mana reduction because of the list of skills which qualify for it? Explain why Chiv-dexxers and Pure dexxer templates get the shaft? Do you seriously not see the blatant SE / archer bias here?

For those that are unclear, let me explain what people are complaining about I think:

If you make a dexxer with Parry and Swords at 100, you have 200 points towards the discount. You will get a 5 point mana reduction. People are whining about now loosing an extra 5 point discount because now all the "joker points" for dexxer skills they dont have, e.g. archery 20, ninja 20, fencing, 20, macing 20, bushido 20, those points now do not add to total 300 points. So you loose 5 more points discount.

Completely and totally irrelevant. So every archer, ninja or samurai has to change nothing and every other dexxer must become a ninja or samurai in order to have EQUAL, I repeat EQUAL mana cost for special moves.

Please... this is absurd... invest in a bit of skill before you cry wolf. It is a pointless debate really.

Pointless? Pointless for who? Ninjas, samurai and archers?

In PvP those straight up characters were not really perfectly viable anyway (I know, I play one)

Says you? So what. My chiv dexxer does just fine in his role.

and it certainly does not matter in PvM because my mana stays at max at all times anyway due to weapon mana leech. As soon as you add a bit of this or that, say 60 bushido, or 60 ninja, you are back at 300 and your discount kicks in (if you have 120 wep, 120 parry e.g.). most dexxer templates already have some kind of hybrid.

So, once again the solution is my Paladin has to become a ninja or a samurai?

The people that cry about this are gimpers in a purist disguise.

Are you for ****ing real? (swords/tactics/anat/heal/resist/chiv/focus = gimp)? Now I've really heard it all.

now, the benefit of getting 5 points discounted is lost when you have a super gimp template that was counting on this discount to survive. like mage/tamer/dex combo templates that are super mana intensive and can only fit two dexxer skills into their template... I think some previous posters were dead on. Read some posts about the dex/mage/tamer combo's and why people love them. I think it is a very smart way of nerfing a very overpowered pvp template in my humble opinion, while hardly affecting anything else in the game. And don't you try to lump me in with trammies or PvP only camps. I am happy and effective in both.

So you completely **** Paladins and Pure dexxers to fix ONE GIMP-assed overpowered template? Wonderful ****ing solution!!!

 

[Ezekiel Zane]

Also Ezekiel Zane you keep bringing up templates that will be nerfed you only say archery. Every fighting skill is going to be changed equally, I'm not sure why you keep only saying archery as if anyone swords, fencing, or macing isn't going to get changed as well?

I'm sorry, but you must be VERY confused. You may want to go back through and read this entire thread a few more times and really pay better attention to my posts. I'm too irritated to bother correcting how incorrect you are.

 

[Ezekiel Zane]

the answer to why this nerf took place was clearly so archers couldn't spam moving shot. that is it. there is no other reason.

Could you explain please, how this change, will prevent MOST archers from spamming moving shot?

Removing the JoAT 20 points from the rest of the list of qualifying skills for the mana cost reduction will do absolutely nothing to 75% or more of the archer templates out there. Stealth-ninja-archer STILL gets the FULL mana cost reduction. Stealth-ninja-melee STILL gets the FULL mana cost reduction. Samurai warrior STILL gets the FULL mana cost reduction. Samurai-archer STILL gets the -5 mana cost reduction and the FULL mana cost reduction if also a stealther.

Paladins w/o parry lose the -5 they currently have to get NOTHING. Pure dexxers LOSE the -5 they currently have to get NOTHING.

While I'm sure everyone appreciates your attempt to quantify the change, unfortunately you are dead wrong.

the solution would have been to just increase the mana cost for moving cost. of course UO being UO they decided to just screw up everything instead.

really, it makes no sense at all. moving shot was too undercosted so just increase the cost. i seriously doubt anyone would object as everyone had to know it was on the chopping block sooner or later.

but instead we get this. no wonder people are upset.

This would be a hugely more logical solution, to the moving shot problem at least, instead of nerfing the crap out of Paladins and other Pure dexxers.

 

[Whinemaker]

I can stand the new "nerf" on special move mana cost, but I still think Humans need a bit, just a little bit more love.

Just a human version of the Cu Sidhe, and some human-only gears will do.
That or get rid of the Elves-only status. I just don't see the point of that any more when they made UOML free.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

And onto the whole MR debate, just a quick number crunch, based on a warrior type char with 50 Int (Mana).

Human/50 Int/Passive Med = 100 sec to fully regen 50 mana
Elf/50 Int/Passive Med = 166.67 sec to fully regen 50 mana
If you don't have any MR boosting items, the JoAT actually makes a huge difference.
Human vs Elf --> 66.67 sec
That's a whooping 1 minute difference.

But if we throw in say, +5 MR from items...
Human/50 Int/+5 MR (Item)/Passive Med = 55.56 sec to fully regen 50 mana
Elf/50 Int/+5 MR (Item)/Passive Med = 71.43 sec to fully regen 50 mana
Things get interesting...
Human vs Elf --> 15.87 sec
Human +5 MR vs Human +0 MR --> 44.44 sec
Elf +5 MR vs Elf +0 MR --> 95.24 sec
Look at the Elves go!

And if we make that +10MR,
Human/50 Int/+10 MR (Item)/Passive Med = 41.67 sec to fully regen 50 mana
Elf/50 Int/+10 MR (Item)/Passive Med = 55.56 sec to fully regen 50 mana
Human vs Elf --> 13.89 sec
Human +10 MR vs Human +5 MR --> 13.89 sec
Elf +10 MR vs Elf +5 MR --> 15.87 sec
Things are tailing off eh?

I'm not a science major so please draw your own conclusion and don't bug me on my flawed logic.
It just seems to me the MR benefit from JoAT is only at its most useful when other equipment is not taken into account. Don't get me wrong, Humans still regen reasonably faster than Elves, but it seems that Elves can make up a lot (but not all) of lost ground just by stacking some MR items on them.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

P.S. And I'd love to see Healing go into the LMC list, if it's not already in there.

 

[Ezekiel Zane]

Also to people saying it only affect dexers is wrong. What about tank mages? Wrestle mages? They won't hit 300 skill points. So why aren't people complaining about them?

Have you seen a tank mage or a wrestle mage lately? I haven't. Regardless I don't play a tank mage or a wrestle mage. If there are any out there they sure are quiet. Mage-hybrids, I agree shouldn't be benefiting from what adds up to be 200 points for a mana reduction they don't even need. What mage is running around with 60 or less mana and/or without enormous mana regeneration?

 

[Saint of Killers]

I love the JOAT mana changes!

I just put my dread archer back together 2 days ago. He'll totally get nerfed with these changes, but whatever. Countless moving shot archers using minimal mana...buhhh byyyyyye!!

Gimps FTW baby!

It'll be fun seeing more elves & gargs in the field. I definitely see a lot of peeps switching to elf. More than half of the pvp'ers out there don't even use JOAT tracking, weaving, chiv, or hiding anyway, and don't even understand what JOAT med/focus really does. lol

 

[Ezekiel Zane]

I love the JOAT mana changes!

I just put my dread archer back together 2 days ago. He'll totally get nerfed with these changes, but whatever. Countless moving shot archers using minimal mana...buhhh byyyyyye!!

Gimps FTW baby!

It'll be fun seeing more elves & gargs in the field. I definitely see a lot of peeps switching to elf. More than half of the pvp'ers out there don't even use JOAT tracking, weaving, chiv, or hiding anyway, and don't even understand what JOAT med/focus really does. lol

Even if your template has only archery, as you posted that you run an archer-tamer with what a dread mare, you are hardly getting hit by the nerf stick here. So your moving shot goes from costing you 5 or 3 mana if you also run 40% LMC, to costing you 15 mana or only 9 mana if also you have 40% LMC. Mage too? Yeah, your combat effectiveness is seriously hampered by a very small increase in the amount of mana cost for moving shot. Not!

 

[Speaking the Truth]

Have you seen a tank mage or a wrestle mage lately? I haven't. Regardless I don't play a tank mage or a wrestle mage. If there are any out there they sure are quiet. Mage-hybrids, I agree shouldn't be benefiting from what adds up to be 200 points for a mana reduction they don't even need. What mage is running around with 60 or less mana and/or without enormous mana regeneration?

Where to begin?

The first thing you said to me was I have to re-read what you wrote. No. You're the one in every post that starts with and ARCHERY will be affected, making it lead to believe no one else would be.

I have seen tank mages, and wrestle mages, if you haven't seen one that's not my problem, my point about them was most of them won't be getting the mana reduction yet they aren't crying.

Next is the fact that you're talking about mana regen, that isn't the issue at all. You need to stay on topic that specials in general are being tweeked.

Your examples are pretty bad, for example: Stealth archers- You can't fit 120s in everything to make a stealth archer so if they get to do moving shots cheap they don't hit very hard, odds are you won't be max dmg increase and you certainly will not be 120d out in anat tac ect so it wont matter that their mana isn't reduced. Not to mention 98% of these templates don't have resist. Get a mage and mana vamp them you add that with their upped specials you shouldn't die to moving shot ever.

We get whats on the list we can figure out what templates will need to be tweeked and which won't, you saying add this skill or that ruins the whole purpose of this list. They are correcting what should have been correct a long time ago from JoaT. Why are you complaining now, it slipped through the cracks and now it's being adressed.

I know you liked how things were but times change. Look at specials, they use to not need tactics now they do. No one is saying you have to change your template, however times they are a changin'. If you want to pay 6 mana more for and AI because you don't want to change your template that's fine! You don't need to pick up ninja, or bushdio.

Tamers with meele are getting affected, plenty of templates that probably needed to be toned down will get that tone down from this change.

 

[ACB1961]

Why doesn't tactics count for this?

 

[Ezekiel Zane]

Have you seen a tank mage or a wrestle mage lately? I haven't. Regardless I don't play a tank mage or a wrestle mage. If there are any out there they sure are quiet. Mage-hybrids, I agree shouldn't be benefiting from what adds up to be 200 points for a mana reduction they don't even need. What mage is running around with 60 or less mana and/or without enormous mana regeneration?

Where to begin?

The first thing you said to me was I have to re-read what you wrote. No. You're the one in every post that starts with and ARCHERY will be affected, making it lead to believe no one else would be.

Honestly, I'm speechless. I just can't even fathom how you have misread my posts so horribly inaccurate. Somebody else please help set this person straight.

 

[Speaking the Truth]

Even if your template has only archery, as you posted that you run an archer-tamer with what a dread mare, you are hardly getting hit by the nerf stick here. So your moving shot goes from costing you 5 or 3 mana if you also run 40% LMC, to costing you 15 mana or only 9 mana if also you have 40% LMC. Mage too? Yeah, your combat effectiveness is seriously hampered by a very small increase in the amount of mana cost for moving shot. Not!

Are you kidding?

His template goes from moving shots costing 3 on the first to 6 on the second with moving shot, to 9 and 18, you don't think that will make a difference?

Clearly you are attached to archery and how it is now. Learn to play something else or not spam 3 mana specials. I've never seen someone so bias, it's sickening really. Everytime someone brings up a valid point you ignore it and act like ONLY what you're saying is right.

 

[Damien Softstep]

I've never seen someone so bias, it's sickening really. Everytime someone brings up a valid point you ignore it and act like ONLY what you're saying is right.

 

[Ezekiel Zane]

Even if your template has only archery, as you posted that you run an archer-tamer with what a dread mare, you are hardly getting hit by the nerf stick here. So your moving shot goes from costing you 5 or 3 mana if you also run 40% LMC, to costing you 15 mana or only 9 mana if also you have 40% LMC. Mage too? Yeah, your combat effectiveness is seriously hampered by a very small increase in the amount of mana cost for moving shot. Not!

Are you kidding?

His template goes from moving shots costing 3 on the first to 6 on the second with moving shot, to 9 and 18, you don't think that will make a difference?

If you can't even read there's just no point debating with you. I guess you missed the part where he said he's a flipping tamer-archer. Meaning, he has a god damn dreadmare or greater dragon tanking for him. Yeah an increased mana cost for him is going to destroy his template completely. Just in case you fail to catch it, that was SARCASM!

Clearly you are attached to archery and how it is now. Learn to play something else or not spam 3 mana specials.

If you seriously, after ACTUALLY reading my posts, think I play an archer, you are... lost. I don't resort to personal attacks but man, all I can say is you are obviously NOT reading my posts man.

I've never seen someone so bias, it's sickening really. Everytime someone brings up a valid point you ignore it and act like ONLY what you're saying is right.

Massive FAIL

 

[Ezekiel Zane]

I've never seen someone so bias, it's sickening really. Everytime someone brings up a valid point you ignore it and act like ONLY what you're saying is right.

So you haven't actually READ the thread either?

 

[Damien Softstep]

So you haven't actually READ the thread either?

No...

 

[Saint of Killers]

Are you kidding?

His template goes from moving shots costing 3 on the first to 6 on the second with moving shot, to 9 and 18, you don't think that will make a difference?

Clearly you are attached to archery and how it is now. Learn to play something else or not spam 3 mana specials. I've never seen someone so bias, it's sickening really. Everytime someone brings up a valid point you ignore it and act like ONLY what you're saying is right.

I was going to respond to Ezekiel's reply to my post, but I see Speaking the Truth already covered it.

To sum it up even more for Ezek:

*Moving shot archer/tamer right now: Mana used - 3, 6, 6, 6, 6, 6, 6...if fired within 3 seconds of each other.

**Moving shot archer/tamer with the changes: Mana used - 9, 18, 18, 18, 18, 18, 18...if fired withing 3 seconds of each other.

**Moving shot archer/ninja with the changes: Mana used - 6, 12, 12, 12, 12, 12, 12...if fired within 3 seconds of each other.

Stealth archers stay the same, but let's face it, we all want to 1v1 any stealth archer we see in the field because their template is so cramped for points that they are generally (not always, but generally) weaker in 1v1 pvp situations.

I played an archer a lot in the past. Moving shot is ridiculous. My dread/archer or cu/archer takes a hit, but whatever, I have a pet so it's a justifiable hit.

Edit: I see Ezek just responded yet again, but I'm sick of typing anyway so I'll leave it be. The JOAT nerf is a done deal anyway.

 

[Ezekiel Zane]

Are you kidding?

His template goes from moving shots costing 3 on the first to 6 on the second with moving shot, to 9 and 18, you don't think that will make a difference?

Clearly you are attached to archery and how it is now. Learn to play something else or not spam 3 mana specials. I've never seen someone so bias, it's sickening really. Everytime someone brings up a valid point you ignore it and act like ONLY what you're saying is right.

I was going to respond to Ezekiel's reply to my post, but I see Speaking the Truth already covered it.

To sum it up even more for Ezek:

*Moving shot archer/tamer right now: Mana used - 3, 6, 6, 6, 6, 6, 6...if fired within 3 seconds of each other.

**Moving shot archer/tamer with the changes: Mana used - 9, 18, 18, 18, 18, 18, 18...if fired withing 3 seconds of each other.

**Moving shot archer/ninja with the changes: Mana used - 6, 12, 12, 12, 12, 12, 12...if fired within 3 seconds of each other.

Stealth archers stay the same, but let's face it, we all want to 1v1 any stealth archer we see in the field because their template is so cramped for points that they are generally (not always, but generally) weaker in 1v1 pvp situations.

I played an archer a lot in the past. Moving shot is ridiculous. My dread/archer or cu/archer takes a hit, but whatever, I have a pet so it's a justifiable hit.

Edit: I see Ezek just responded yet again, but I'm sick of typing anyway so I'll leave it be. The JOAT nerf is a done deal anyway.

You didn't post a dang thing there that I don't already know and HAVE acknowledged. The tamer-archer is the only archer template that gets really hit by this change. Being a mix of two classes, a hybrid dexxer, the tamer side being so overpowered because of the strength of your pets, it's not a huge hit offensively.

Every other archer template is virtually untouched by losing the JoAT points counting towards the mana cost reduction. It's said over and over in PvP threads that 75% of PvPrs are archers of some form or another. Are there really any Pure archers out there? No stealth, no ninjitsu, no Bushido. I don't think so. The moving shot mana cost will STAY EXACTLY THE SAME for all the archer templates except the tamer. The tamer archer is a hybrid. It's only slightly increased mana for a ninja-archer without stealth. My Paladin in not a hybrid he's a dexxer and a dexxer only. Paladins or chiv dexxers and pure dexxers are crushed by this change while leaving the really widespread, overpowered archer templates unchanged, except for the tamer.

 

[Thav12]

Ezekiel, you are delusional. I hope this thread gets locked fast. You are out of control. Dismissing every argument there is by using poorly disguised curse words just means you are not really in check with reality. You are right, everyone else is wrong. Why exactly you are upset that your Chiv-dexxer is not getting 5 extra mana reduction will remain forever a mystery to me. One thing is very clear to me, this is a game. Treat it as such and stop cursing and yelling at me or anyone else out there. I hope that you change that quickly, or else I hope for a perma ban.

 

[WarUltima]

Definitely a change in good direction as far as tamer archers are concerned I feel sorry for straight archer/dexer players that gets hit by this (even if they are somewhat rare nowdays). I wish they could also address the dreaded disarm archer bull**** which is virtually untouched with this update.

At least they are trying. And the few things that I wish they could also throw in with this chage are weapon skill should only be counted once. As in "if you have at least one or more weapon skills the highest weapon skill points is counted not exceeding 120" and adding chiv skill to the list.

 

[Ezekiel Zane]

I'm delusional because I don't think it's FAIR that samurai, ninjas, most archer templates, and now even the throwing skill has been added to the list for mana cost reduction, but straight Paladins or a Pure dexxer DO NOT? Really?

This is the 79th post in this thread and not one person has put forth any logical reason why those dexxer templates get reduced mana cost but Paladins and Pure warriors don't. Nobody.

 

[Ezekiel Zane]

Why exactly you are upset that your Chiv-dexxer is not getting 5 extra mana reduction will remain forever a mystery to me.

Well, we clearly agree on something.

 

[Thav12]

I'm delusional because I don't think it's FAIR that samurai, ninjas, most archer templates, and now even the throwing skill has been added to the list for mana cost reduction, but straight Paladins or a Pure dexxer DO NOT? Really?

This is the 79th post in this thread and not one person has put forth any logical reason why those dexxer templates get reduced mana cost but Paladins and Pure warriors don't. Nobody.

First, i hope this gets locked fast. You are out of control. Reread this thread, and you will see a lot of arguments. You are blinded by your own rage / bias...

If someone is to invest into a skill that requires lots of mana to be useful (ninja, bush etc), it is only fair in my opinion that those points count towards a slight (and so many people have pointed out just how slight it is) mana reduction bonus. Your chiv on your chiv dexxer that you apparently have an unhealthy relationship with and you should consider perhaps taking a little break from anyway, doesn't need it nor should you be getting any sort of reduction for a skill that you need to cast so little (chiv). I dunno, I think it is meaningless in the bigger picture and not aimed at your type of template at all. But guess what toolbag, i don't care. It is a game. It affects me none. I adjust and move on. Go stick your head in an ice bucket and calm down.

 

[Thav12]

Well, we clearly agree on something.

we don't. This particular point was not argued by anyone. This is a fact, posted by the devs when this publish came out. I still disagree with about 99% of what you have written, and mostly with the way you have argued things in this entire thread.

Please stop. Go take a shower or something...

 

[Ezekiel Zane]

I'm delusional because I don't think it's FAIR that samurai, ninjas, most archer templates, and now even the throwing skill has been added to the list for mana cost reduction, but straight Paladins or a Pure dexxer DO NOT? Really?

This is the 79th post in this thread and not one person has put forth any logical reason why those dexxer templates get reduced mana cost but Paladins and Pure warriors don't. Nobody.

First, i hope this gets locked fast. You are out of control. Reread this thread, and you will see a lot of arguments. You are blinded by your own rage / bias...

First, threads don't get locked because of heated debate. Threads get locked when some posters begin to resort to personal attacks to make their point.

If someone is to invest into a skill that requires lots of mana to be useful (ninja, bush etc), it is only fair in my opinion that those points count towards a slight (and so many people have pointed out just how slight it is) mana reduction bonus. Your chiv on your chiv dexxer that you apparently have an unhealthy relationship with and you should consider perhaps taking a little break from anyway, doesn't need it nor should you be getting any sort of reduction for a skill that you need to cast so little (chiv).

Every template has the same 720 skill points invested. You think it's fair that ninjas and samurai get a mana cost reduction but Paladins and Pure warriors don't. No problem. I disagree. I can disagree, no matter how heated without needing to call you names. Obviously you can't. Have you ever played a paladin? Paladins take a huge amount of mana to be effective. Constantly casting consecrate and divine, cleanse and remove curse. Well and then there are the special moves which this entire debate is about. Chiv dexxers don't use much mana. That's funny. Ninja, bush, etc continue to get a SLIGHT mana reduction bonus? Slight? You think 33% - as much as a 50% reduction in mana cost is slight?

I dunno, I think it is meaningless in the bigger picture and not aimed at your type of template at all.

Why not?

But guess what toolbag, i don't care. It is a game. It affects me none. I adjust and move on. Go stick your head in an ice bucket and calm down.

Name calling? You don't care? I beg to differ, else why resort to personal attacks?

 

[Kiminality]

Why would you have 35 focus when it upgrades by 20s?Drop that focus to 20 and up chivalry to 100...

No, it doesn't.
When they changed MR, they changed meditation and focus to give additional MR at intermediate skill levels.

 

[olduofan]

I've never seen someone so bias, it's sickening really. Everytime someone brings up a valid point you ignore it and act like ONLY what you're saying is right.

So you haven't actually READ the thread either?

bro its hopeless trying to make narrow/self serving-mind people understand or even see other points give it up its useless .

and also its are new live dev thats doing it i hope she gets removed from uo soon

 

[Divie]

No, it doesn't.
When they changed MR, they changed meditation and focus to give additional MR at intermediate skill levels.

out of interest do you know what those intermediate levals are?

 

[Ezekiel Zane]

No, it doesn't.
When they changed MR, they changed meditation and focus to give additional MR at intermediate skill levels.

out of interest do you know what those intermediate levals are?

Not sure there's an exact calculation but here's a link to pub notes.http://www.uoherald.com/news/news.php?newsid=791

 

[olduofan]

Ezekiel Zane I agree with everything you have said here and most other threads as well,

honestly I don't think rational/valid points will even be heard by those that are making the changes and even if they did listen they are gonna favor there own points, play style and friends wants...

 

[Ezekiel Zane]

Thank you friend. I feel better now. I knew I couldn't be the last fan of a true paladin.

 

[Ezekiel Zane]

Konge, I see you're here. Thoughts on today's most heated debate? At least you stated you believed Chiv should be included in the list.

 

[Konge]

bro its hopeless trying to make narrow/self serving-mind people understand or even see other points give it up its useless .

and also its are new live dev thats doing it i hope she gets removed from uo soon

Do you have any idea what you're talking about? You're blaming the NEW head dev for changes that happened multiple years ago?

Zane (i don't feel like spelling your first name ) Yes, Paladins should probably get the bonus, chiv works dif than samurai and ninja skills, you can see why they get the bonus. I'm not repeating it for the third time. Chiv SHOULDN"T get the bonus, but maybe another warrior skill (tactics, probably) should get the bonus.

I don't even know why you're arguing this, you SHOULD be arguing a BUFF of chivalry and non bushido warriors, because, even if you DID get the bonus you want, a Samurai will always whipe the floor with you in pvm, and pvp unless you're a 4/6 but even then that's iffy.

You should be taken you efforts somewhere else because what you REALLY want is to have the same damage output.

EDIT: Sorry if it sounds like I'm attacking you Zane, I don't mean to, it's just Olduofan's blaming of one person who probably had nothing to do with what he dislikes is irking me hardcore.

I don't think Chivalry should get the bonus, but Tactics should, and that will equate to the same thing. I view Chivalry as too casting oriented, but tactics SHOULD get the bonus, I mean you need to skill to USE the abilties why isn't it a combat skill?

 

[Ezekiel Zane]

Ok, yeah, that's right. I re-read yesterday's posts. It wasn't chiv it was tactics you thought should be added. Doesn't matter what skill creates mana cost equality. Just as long as it's equal for dexxers.

 

[Kiminality]

out of interest do you know what those intermediate levals are?

Sorry, I wasn't clear on it.
Whereas before, focus gave 1MR at 20, 2MR at 40 and so on, making skill levels that weren't dead on the 20s a waste of points (in that regard). The reworked MR formula meant that 10.1 offered more than 10, and so on. Although the difference is almost negligible for each 0.1, every 0.1 counts, rather than every 20