Why do you dislike gold sellers?

[Simon Francis]

Curious as to why some people dislike them so much.

1. They don't affect your gameplay
2. There is a large playerbase who does appreciate them (casual & hardcore gamers)
3. Online games in which items that can be traded easily create jobs for people whether you like it or not
4. If EA wanted to discourage the selling of items, they would just set up a system like WOW in which high end items must be earned and cannot be bought

Knowing these 4 facts, I am just wondering if there are any legitimate reasons to dislike certain people, other than them being rude?

**Keep in mind I am NOT talking about dupers, just gold sellers in general**

 

[Redxpanda]

I dislike them because they are taking advantage of a problem/weakness for personal gain and they care very little about the game and more about how the game can benefit them. In the end, we pay the price while they reap the benefits.

 

[Kaleb]

Gold sellers for the most part contribute to people finding ways to exploit the game for profit be it duping themselves or fencing the dupe for a quick profit. Granted there are some that are legit players but to weed out the people who hurt the game you got to disallow it for everyone. Its kills the economy it keeps new players from wanting to play when they realize they will need to invest 100's of mills to even somewhat compete. Overall its just bad for the game. Its also a game not a job except for those hired by EA mythic.

 

[Ender]

Because most gold sellers are scripters and/or dupers... Which harms the game. Duh.

 

[PASmountaindew]

And I would guess that the majority of the gold sellers at one time either were part of the gold duping or proffited from it which encouraged people to dupe items.

 

[Dermott of LS]

...

I don't dislike them. Personally, I have ZERO problem with people selling gold or goods for real money as long as the gold/goods in question are gained through legitimate gameplay.

I believe that a game company should either take the hands off approach of UO, or if they can afford to run the service, provide a moderated yet impartial auction site that allows for players to trade goods, yet at the same time polices the existence of exploiters through internal investigations.

By itself, gold selling only moves existing gold from one player to another and to ingame databases there is no difference between a player selling X gold (out of game) to another player and a player simply giving X gold to another player.

The problem comes in when you have rampant exploiting be itscripting or duping to produce inordinate amounts of gold. But this hurts the legitimate gold seller because it floods the market which causes the value of the gold to drop drastically (which in turn makes it less and less feasible for honest players to try and play the gold seller game).

Personally, I don't buy anything via RMT sales (outside of subscription upgrades, expansions, etc) such as items or gold from other players, nor do I sell it.

I don't sell gold or items because the time investment vs the profit would be so far BELOW minimum wage that I'd be better to log off and get a job pulling fries at McDonalds.

I don't sell my accounts or characters because I would feel sick knowing someone else was playing MY character.

If it is worth it if/when I decide to leave UO to sell my houses, items and gold, then I will do so when I begin to leave the game. Beyond that, I know that the market is borked too badlyt to make it worth the effort to try RMT selling.

But I'm a free market person at heart, so the idea of gold selling doesn't bother me.

If the game were made more in-game financially sound (as in the drais were enough to handle the faucets) and actual exploiters were removed more handily, then RMT selling would be a healthy part of the game and not the scapegoat for a bigger problem.

 

[Simon Francis]

I dislike them because they are taking advantage of a problem/weakness for personal gain and they care very little about the game and more about how the game can benefit them. In the end, we pay the price while they reap the benefits.

I would say the latter is true about dupers, but regular gold/item sellers I absolutely disagree.

You don't pay the price while they reap the benefits... Both parties reap the benefits.

One guy needs gold, other guy wants to sell gold. They complete transaction, both parties are happy.

Other people buying gold doesn't affect you or anyone else on a personal level.

 

[Simon Francis]

I think you are very level headed Dermott and I agree with your beliefs.

 

[Dermott of LS]

...

Although RMT sellers don't bother me, X-Shard traders annoy me. I still and will always believe that X-Sharding has been a BAD move for the game. They NEVER should have allowed a character to X-Fer items as that has harmed shard histories, allowed items to be duped and exist on shards they were not meant to be on and so forth.

My positions on such issues are NOT without a lot of thought and examination behind them. Yes, I understand where the problems with XSharding and RMT lay (mainly duping, one being an avenue for duping and the other the avenue of profit on duped goods), but I have always attempted to maintain that people should point at the PROBLEM, not the symptom, and RMT sellers being notoriously overrun by dupers is the symptom. The existence of the dupers and duping at all is the actual problem and one that needs to be worked on at all times.

To me it comes down to the simple comparison... which of the two scenarios is worse:
(assume X Million gold in each is an equal arbitrary amount)

1. Player A obtains X Million gold through legitimate gameplay, sells, then transfers the gold to Player B.

2. Player A dupes X Million gold then gives the gold to Player B for free.

 

[Salty Pete]

Why do I despise gold sellers?

1) They have completely destroyed the game's economy.

2) It is nothing more than softcore cheating.

 

[Maplestone]

1. They don't affect your gameplay
Yes they do - the game's economy affects everyone. However, going further, many gold sellers seem to be more willing engage in or turn a blind eye towards scripting or duping to further their trade. Such abuses cause the devs to have to have to nerf otherwise rewarding systems. (*)

2. There is a large playerbase who does appreciate them (casual & hardcore gamers)
That doesn't mean I have to like it.

3. Online games in which items that can be traded easily create jobs for people whether you like it or not
Wait ... are trying to poll me or threaten me?

4. If EA wanted to discourage the selling of items, they would just set up a system like WOW in which high end items must be earned and cannot be bought
EA has decided no to ban it (I don't know whether that is for historical reasons that would make it legally difficult to change the ToS or because the cost of blocking it is not worth the expense of policing)

I hate gold sellers with a passion (you asked). But I don't make the rules nor control the wills of others, so feel free to gloat in my face about it.

( * - general impression I get from anything they touch, I personally have no proof of anything other than watching the aftermath of the yearly roundups and bannings, but fortunately as proud member of the torch-and-pitchfork mob, I am not bound to the strict judicial restrictions on evidence when forming a judgemental opinion )

 

[AEowynSP]

Sweatshop

 

[Simon Francis]

Why do I despise gold sellers?

1) They have completely destroyed the game's economy.

2) It is nothing more than softcore cheating.

1) No... If person A farms 10million gold and sells it, is there not still the same 10 million gold in the economy? Gold sellers do not negatively effect the economy in any way, shape, or form.

Now lets say duper A buys 10m gold then dupes it from nothing. That my friend is what harms the economy. Your first point is null and void.

2) Also null and void. How is it cheating to sell what you have earned? It's not. That is like working for stock options and then selling them except that there are no buyers who scream at you for cheating...

The amount of thought put into these arguments is right on par with my elementary school grade nephew.

 

[aarons6]

i think its good.. i can only spend a certain amount of time playing and that time is worth money to me..

if i want something.. i can either take weeks maybe even months and play hardcore to get it, or spend a few real life $$ and get it now..

 

[Sunrise]

i think its good.. i can only spend a certain amount of time playing and that time is worth money to me..

if i want something.. i can either take weeks maybe even months and play hardcore to get it, or spend a few real life $$ and get it now..

you are right. Some people actually have lives and just want to spend a few hours on the computer a week and have some fun killing the big stuff. I can understand that.

Also being from someone who did buy stuff for Real life money. I have to fight myself saying I bought pixles.

On the same token. It did help me in the game. Plus my time in the game too is worth alot of money.

People who used to farm gold made a fortune. But that was when gold was rare to get. Now tho..Not so much.

 

[Doomsday Dragon]

Gold sellers in general are not the issue. The way people obtain the gold to sell it in large amounts is a problem.

Accounts get hacked and people script farm gold as well as gold being duped any time it can be.

This all leads to serious issues for the rest of us who play the game legit and without buying things in game for real cash.

And THAT is why I dislike them.

 

[kelmo]

Just do not sell your gold here... *smiles*

 

[Sunrise]

DD You hit the nail on the head.

Back in the day people paid for there UO account by selling gold.

To this day there are ways to get gold by illegal means.

since everyone loves to say back in the day... Remember when 1 mil gold was 10 bucks each and so forth? Go on line get a few cheats and start Farming gold. Turn around and sell it for cash. Then go out and buy uber stuff to get more gold and better stuff. Turn around and sell that then for real money. Continue until you are bored with the game...or the Devs burn down your house. Leave game for the next hot thing to make real life money on. Hence why I hate gold sellers.
They do hurt the legal players who feel good working hard to get those uber things.

There will always be people out there who want the High end stuff and dont mind shelling out a few bucks to get it. Then again My saying is this. If people want to spend there money on stuff. Who am I to question it?

 

[4gregu]

Why do you dislike gold sellers?

I dont, in fact, I was one. I quit doing it activly because I can't compete with the dupers/scripters. I can't see putting the effort in day in and day out, to find that gold is selling for $.75 or lower. Not worth the time anymore.

I do still sell to some old repeat customers, (when I manage to put together enough to sell.) But they tell me its only because they know they can trust me, and know where my gold comes from. They could get it cheaper from other.... lets say "shady" sources, but dont.

 

[Surgeries]

1) No... If person A farms 10million gold and sells it, is there not still the same 10 million gold in the economy? Gold sellers do not negatively effect the economy in any way, shape, or form.

Like Dermott said, and you should qualify that statement:

Gold Sellers who make their gold Legitimately...

Without Duping, or Scripting...

I have no problem with.

It's the 100% of Gold Sellers that get their gold cheating, that I think kill UO.

Not all of them do cheat.

But my guess would be that LOTS and LOTS of them are sweatshop cheaters, that exploit and cheat, to get that gold that they sell.

Lots and lots of gold sellers cheat, I am betting, and they all suck.

All of them.

 

[It Lives]

Lots and lots of gold sellers cheat, I am betting, and they all suck.

All of them.

Oh so true.


I have too much real money(to little) that I dont know what to do with, so I will corner markets in this nifty game with my billions and create a woe full economy in which the only way for people to compete is cheat, script, dupe or.. I will cheat, dupe, script the game to accomplish this...so you have too....
BUY MY GOLD.

 

[hawkeye_pike]

I have two problems with gold sellers:

1. They ruin the economy. They do that by pumping masses of gold into the market, which leads to inflation. That again leads to increasing prices, which ruins the gaming experience for new players and those who do not want to spend extra cash in order to play UO.

2. Most of them acquire the gold by breaking the game rules (i.e. scripting).

 

[nemo]

Gold sellers in general are not the issue. The way people obtain the gold to sell it in large amounts is a problem.

Accounts get hacked and people script farm gold as well as gold being duped any time it can be.

This all leads to serious issues for the rest of us who play the game legit and without buying things in game for real cash.

And THAT is why I dislike them.

Exactly....bit like the house on Europa that has the tell tale locked down chest on the steps with 2165543 stone in weight in it, and they recal in every minute or so, hide, then leave. Of course they may not be scripting

 

[Tomas_Bryce]

**Keep in mind I am NOT talking about dupers, just gold sellers in general**

Vast majority of big gold sellers are exploiters or cooperate with exploiters. It is not that easy to separate the two at this point. When I hear the word broker, I think cheater.

If the game were made more in-game financially sound (as in the drais were enough to handle the faucets) and actual exploiters were removed more handily, then RMT selling would be a healthy part of the game and not the scapegoat for a bigger problem.

Is this even possible? I know of no current game where this is the case. In many ways, there will never be another Ultima Online because no game released in future can have the relative innocence of early days of UO as it is quite a big business now.

 

[a slave girl]

Curious as to why some people dislike them so much.

1. They don't affect your gameplay
2. There is a large playerbase who does appreciate them (casual & hardcore gamers)
3. Online games in which items that can be traded easily create jobs for people whether you like it or not
4. If EA wanted to discourage the selling of items, they would just set up a system like WOW in which high end items must be earned and cannot be bought

Knowing these 4 facts, I am just wondering if there are any legitimate reasons to dislike certain people, other than them being rude?

**Keep in mind I am NOT talking about dupers, just gold sellers in general**

"**Keep in mind I am NOT talking about dupers, just gold sellers in general**"



But you WERE talking about a duper when you posted that screenshot of a well-known UO dupers house turned to rubble on Great Lakes after the duped vine cord sandals got nuked.


How does a squeaky clean gold seller/broker such as yourself know where a duper lives?



1. Gold sellers affect my gameplay because I can't give away items for free to help people (and I have lots of items from idocing).

I wouldn't like to support cheating in UO, and my free item being put up on someone's website for sale for $3.50 (threefitty!) would be supporting cheating. (Scripters/dupers supply these websites and the gold sellers/brokers).


2. UO has a large playerbase?

I understand that PvPers hate to pvm (my son refuses to pvm) so they'd prefer to pay cash for their insurance money and PvP gear.

And since their Mommy's told them that they are Special why should they give a **** if they are supporting cheating so long as they get to do what they want to do in UO?

Just because there's a "large" number of these type players in UO doesn't make it ok.

3. True enough. What I don't like is the fact the EA?/Mythic doesn't care enough about their property to stop people like you from exploiting it.

Blizzard, on the other hand, does backflips to stop gold sellers and their support staff, dupers and scripters, and has 10 million subs to prove that that is what people want in their online game.

Compare to EA's love of gold sellers and UO subs.

4. I have come to the conclusion that EA/Mythic is a "niche" online gaming company.

They think small therefore their online game offerings will always be niche-style games with small subscription numbers.

I say this because UO:KR had a tightly closed beta with maybe 100 testers (read dev asskissers here, or yes men), then they added maybe 100 more who weren't invited to the private beta forums so were not even allowed to voice their opinions of KR.


KR was then released and nonbeta testers were appalled at how awful it was, thanks to EA/Mythic's thinking small and using a "niche=style" form of beta testing!


They didn't learn from this fiasco, no, they repeated it again with Warhammer, and surprise their tiny little "niche-style" beta testing gave them erroneous data and a new "niche-style" game, Warhammer.

WoW has official forums which allows Blizzard lots of control over what's said in public about WoW.

It seems that whenever WoW goes down every Tuesday for maintenance, usually for 8 long hours, Blizzard also takes down the forums so no one can go spend those 8 hours of downtime pancakes about the game on the forums.

Compare this type of forward thinking to EA's treatment of Warhammer.

Warhammer didn't rate official forums so now Mark Jacobs, Mythic/Warhammer and UO's boss man is all over the web begging for advice on how to make Warhammer as good as WoW.

Do I think EA/Mythic will do anything like Blizzard does?

No, because they never heard the phrase: "It takes money to make money".


Edit: Oh and as far as I know it's not illegal to be rude to gold sellers ingame.

 

[Esmeralda]

I don´t dislike goldsellers, in fact I have sold some in the past at one occasion too. And I clearly remember, back then when 5 millions were a ****load of money, I bought some of ebay, just because it was cheaper to pay my account with gold than with rl money.

What I truly dislike is, that some ppl are scripting and duping the hell outa the game just to make money!

 

[Splup]

I have a friend who is running he's own business so he's pretty busy and plays kinda rarely. When he plays he want's to PvP, since that's what he likes to do. He has pretty much IRL money but no time to make money on UO to buy his items so he buys UO money with IRL money.

Is it right? I don't know. Does it ruin the game for others? I don't know. Does it keep one more subscriber, nice and active PvP player in our community? Yes it does.

This is a game, and playing is supposed to fun. If you think goldselling is creating more miserable players then happy players then it's a bad thing. If it's making a lot of happy players and very few players are getting sad because of it, it's a good thing. Yea, kinda black&white but still.

I don't have clear opinion about this. If I didnt know this friend of mine it could be easy to say "Goldsellers are ruining this game!" even thou I don't know if it really even affects my gameplay. But after seeing this otherside of the story I'm not so sure..

 

[Prince Caspian]

Because they give the incentive to duplicate gold.

Next question.

 

[Salty Pete]

1) No... If person A farms 10million gold and sells it, is there not still the same 10 million gold in the economy? Gold sellers do not negatively effect the economy in any way, shape, or form.

Now lets say duper A buys 10m gold then dupes it from nothing. That my friend is what harms the economy. Your first point is null and void.

2) Also null and void. How is it cheating to sell what you have earned? It's not. That is like working for stock options and then selling them except that there are no buyers who scream at you for cheating...

The amount of thought put into these arguments is right on par with my elementary school grade nephew.

1) Yes, gold sellers have directly destroyed the economy. RMT gives them incentive, desire and ability to play extended hours bring even more money into the economy than would be possible if that player worked an actual job and did not have the time to dedicate to farming resources. In a system without RMT there would still be a few power gamers that horded massive amounts of gold, but there would not be the numerous buyers who acquire gold the same as a power gamer without actually putting in the time giving these businesses (for they are not actual players) the ability to exist.

2) Buying gold is NO different than logging into the game and typing in a cheat code, "SHOW ME THE MONEY!" You are acquiring items, houses, gold, skills, etc that your character did not earn through normal game play. How else do you define cheating? If player A logs in and dupes up a billion gold, how is that really any different from player B who logs in and buys a billion gold from someone who worked the game to artificially create a billion gold? It is still a billion gold that other wise would not have existed in the game world and it still has the effect of leaving player B and player A a billion gold above player C who logs on 2 hours or so a day and earns 20k a night through normal game play.

 

[Simon Francis]

Once again, UOhall hasn't failed to disappoint with nearly everyone's complete lack of rational, example based thought.

I had specified I was NOT talking about dupers in the opening paragraph.

I have given examples how normal gold sellers DO NOT negatively affect the economy of UO in anyway. (There is still the same amount of legitimately earned gold)

Thanks to those of you who did put more than a minute of thought into your argument. I have my answers.

 

[Connor_Graham]

I had specified I was NOT talking about dupers in the opening paragraph.

I have given examples how normal gold sellers DO NOT negatively affect the economy of UO in anyway. (There is still the same amount of legitimately earned gold)

What you're failing to take into consideration is that a large number of the gold sellers are also among the dupers that have ruined our version of an economy. They dupe items, sell them, then turn around and take that gold and sell it for RL money. That's how they get the gold to sell. You have to include this in your equation.

 

[Surgeries]

Once again, UOhall hasn't failed to disappoint with nearly everyone's complete lack of rational, example based thought.

I had specified I was NOT talking about dupers in the opening paragraph.

I have given examples how normal gold sellers DO NOT negatively affect the economy of UO in anyway. (There is still the same amount of legitimately earned gold)

Thanks to those of you who did put more than a minute of thought into your argument. I have my answers.

How about SCRIPTERS?

How do you feel about scripters...the ones that are as bad or worse than DUPERS? But NOT Dupers?

How do you feel about those folks?

Because as an overwhelming majority of the posters in this thread exclaimed:

"Nothing wrong, as long as the gold was acquired without cheating."

Duping = Cheating.

We get that.

SCRIPTING = Cheating.

Do you think Scripting is OK, or not?

You failed to let us all in on your views on Scripting...and it does matter.

 

[Nivak]

Curious as to why some people dislike them so much.

Obvious troll, but I'm bored, so...

1. They don't affect your gameplay

The selling of gold leads to drastic inflation and gives dupers greater incentive to dupe. This wild inflation penalizes players who would like to play legitimately, and makes it difficult for these legit players to enjoy the player economy.

2. There is a large playerbase who does appreciate them (casual & hardcore gamers)

I bet there are a large number of people who would steal a million bucks from the bank if they knew they'd get away with it. Your argument is like a drug dealer saying "But I have many happy customers who appreciate me!" Doesn't make it right, does it?

3. Online games in which items that can be traded easily create jobs for people whether you like it or not

"Broker", lol. Really? Do you have a business card? UO has lost & continues to lose subscriptions because of what you do. As UO loses subscriptions, they cut staff ( development, customer service, etc ). So while you may have created a "job", there have undoubtedly been others who have lost their jobs either directly or indirectly because of gold sellers.

4. If EA wanted to discourage the selling of items, they would just set up a system like WOW in which high end items must be earned and cannot be bought

You've got a good point here, admittedly. EA blew it, obviously. UOs economy is beyond repair and they are principally responsible for that.

Knowing these 4 facts, I am just wondering if there are any legitimate reasons to dislike certain people, other than them being rude?

There are legitimate reasons to dislike certain people other than rudeness. In your particular case, I choose to dislike you because I find your choice of "profession" offensive and worthy of my disdain. See? It's easy.

**Keep in mind I am NOT talking about dupers, just gold sellers in general**

Gold sellers sell duped gold and gold derived from the sale of duped items. No difference.

 

[Eslake]

There are several completely legitimate reasons to dislike gold sellers.

Just one of them - Checkers vs Chess

Get in your mind, why you would chose to play Chess rather than Checkers.

Now imagine that your opponent could purchase extra bishops and rooks from someone else while you and they were playing a game.

Would your reasons for chosing Chess still apply?
For that matter, would you even still consider it to BE Chess?


Take the same concept even further...
If EA/M offered advanced-advanced character tokens for $50, that allowed you to pick and chose up to 6 skills to instantly set to up to 120 each, and max stats (with +25) in any configuration you wanted, and a blessed outfit with all 70s +12mr +12hp regen and jewlery with +20 each stat etc..

The perfect Instant-Gratification program.

What would be the point of actually playing the game any more? Everyone who wanted any skill could have it instantly, and everyone would have the perfect outfit and never need another, etc.

Being able to buy gold is only 1 step short of this already. With enough gold you can buy the perfect outfit, and keep it insured and powdered indefinitely. The only thing left is training skill which Adv-Tokens already cut to next to nothing and many people are using scripts now to do while they're afk anyway.

At the rate things are going, UO will eventually be nothing more than a graphical chatroom with customizable housing.

 

[Gheed]

Just do not sell your gold here... *smiles*

Isn't he doing that in his sig?

 

[The Home Guild]

And I would guess that the majority of the gold sellers at one time either were part of the gold duping or proffited from it which encouraged people to dupe items.

People like yourself assume the worst in everyone.
I sold gold cause i made a lot selling housing.Sold castles 700m per.
placed luna city homes/invested and sold.done many idocs with loot/rares. It paid my cable bill,My 5 uo accts and spending money.

i have since quit,but you can't assume everyone is duping.

 

[Gheed]

People like yourself assume the worst in everyone.
I sold gold cause i made a lot selling housing.Sold castles 700m per.
placed luna city homes/invested and sold.done many idocs with loot/rares. It paid my cable bill,My 5 uo accts and spending money.

i have since quit,but you can't assume everyone is duping.

Another confessed gold seller with contact info in the sig. This whole thread is good front page advertising in the hall. Do you have any more 700m castles or luna homes?

 

[onihumanus]

gold sellers are a threat to the basic economy of any video game. the problems lies of course with the creators themselves not policing thier game.

you see it all starts with gold farmers doing nothing but scrypting for gold then they sell their cheaply gotten gains to some poor lazy noob who doesnt have the since or the patience to skin sheep for 4 hours just for a small stack of gold. so they end up on one of these sites buying gold. but! if the game economy wasnt already so jacked from prior gold sales he wouldnt need all that money the items and wares he needed would be much more affordable so. what we have here is a viscouse cycle that could be repaired by ea simply saying this is enough and cutting it off. but of course they wont do that. i myself begin to wonder if ea isnt acctualy in on the gold farming. but that just a small conspiracy theory.

 

[The Home Guild]

Another confessed gold seller with contact info in the sig. This whole thread is good front page advertising in the hall. Do you have any more 700m castles or luna homes?

You have failed to read my post.
[i quit] i do post on these lovely threads in the forums and speak my mind tho.My icq was and is clear for housing purchases..it doesn't mention [I SELL GOLD ICQ ME] I don't play anymore,so No i don't have homes for sale.
Thanks for asking.

 

[a slave girl]

Once again, UOhall hasn't failed to disappoint with nearly everyone's complete lack of rational, example based thought.

I had specified I was NOT talking about dupers in the opening paragraph.

I have given examples how normal gold sellers DO NOT negatively affect the economy of UO in anyway. (There is still the same amount of legitimately earned gold)

Thanks to those of you who did put more than a minute of thought into your argument. I have my answers.

"...normal gold sellers..."



Name? Bank? ICQ number?

Planet?

 

[Salty Pete]

People like yourself assume the worst in everyone.
I sold gold cause i made a lot selling housing.Sold castles 700m per.
placed luna city homes/invested and sold.done many idocs with loot/rares. It paid my cable bill,My 5 uo accts and spending money.

i have since quit,but you can't assume everyone is duping.

Can you say for certain where the gold came from that people paid you for the homes? Where did the inflation come from that allowed you to sell a house for 700m per?

Bottom line: Businesses posing as players destroy the economy.

 

[Harb]

Wow. For me personally, I've loved them and hated them. I agree wholeheartedly with Dermott's post above, for the sake of brevity I won't repeat his comments. In an odd twist, for many years I also completely agreed with Maplestone, who has an opposing view to Dermott. I think much of it for any of us has to do with two things, circumstance and blame. By circumstance, I mean how much time can we allocate to play, and what are our goals/ ambitions while playing. During UO's first five years or so, the wife and I had a lot of time to devote to the game. I "hated" the after market folks during this period, feeling they diminished what we were striving to do, and for many of the other reasons posted above. I made many assumptions about who/ what they were, their motivation/ techniques, etc. I never bought anything from them. When life's circumstance changed for us, play time did as well. We struggled through for another 3-4 years, playing as we could, but adhering to a strong sense of self reliance. Over the past several years, with oscillation in time avaliable, I have used one of the after market sites, and have been rather surprised by what I've learned and found. I can only speak of one group, having no knowledge of any of the others.

1) Funadementally, they're not "bad" folks.
2) It's not a "big" outfit, there are two of them (three at one time).
3) If they dupe or have ever duped, I'd be surprised based on "inventory" other than gold (which I'm not exempting from dupe potential. While they seem to have an "unlimited" amount of it (surprisingly not across all shards), gold seems the only thing in abundance). For items other than gold, I've actually seen them trying to acquire purchased items from other players in the game while awaiting delivery. While it is very likely that some of their "goods" have come from nefarious source, the same can be said of player vendors in game. Without using names, a converation I had with one of these folks migrated to one of his "suppliers" as he querried about reputation, a concern to him. His concerns appeared valid, I "knew" this "source," and believed his concerns accurate. You normally don't encounter "concerned" cheaters. As for scripting, I assume this refers to resources. I have only "purchased" a resource once, they didn't have it, and dull copper isn't "rare." So it's very doubtfull these folks script. Again, I can only address one of the many sites.
4) The final thing that surprised me once I went this route was game "savvy," for lack of a better term. While the site's founder was once well versed on the game and it's mechanics, he was dated. His "employees" really don't seem to know mechanics at all, though they are well versed on in game vendor prices and locations by shard.

So back to my original point, "blame." What I did learn, was that blame for our game's greatest woes, duping and inflation, doesn't necessarily fall where for years I felt it did. Sure, we can blame them for capitalizing on our entertainment product for a sense of personal monetary gain, but I'm not sure what end doing so whould serve. Let me clear, I'm not "endorsing" anyone, and in a perfect world done perfectly, we'd all work for what we achieve. I loathe duping, dupers, and the lack of a sincere successful priority by our dev folks toward fixing this once and for all.

But while we all comment and form judgements on these practices, we need to bear in mind that it really doesn't matter. Love or hate after market practices, they are not fundamental to the game. Fidelity of play, and the "economy," are key. Duping must be fixed. Gold has to be taken out of the game and replaced by a different currency. If those two thing don't happen, we'll just ramble onward until the end!

 

[Gheed]

Another confessed gold seller with contact info in the sig. This whole thread is good front page advertising in the hall. Do you have any more 700m castles or luna homes?

You have failed to read my post.
[i quit] i do post on these lovely threads in the forums and speak my mind tho.My icq was and is clear for housing purchases..it doesn't mention [I SELL GOLD ICQ ME] I don't play anymore,so No i don't have homes for sale.
Thanks for asking.

I read that you said you quit. And now read that say you don't play anymore. So it must be true.

Regardless... The "I'm a gold seller. Why don't you like gold selling" posts are just a way around the rules... Which are prettly clear about advertising in game items for cash. Anybody who reads these posts that is thinking about buying gold now has a contact via sig impregnated info or pm. Anybody that reads these posts and decides to contribute their opinions about honest play, game economy or encouraging of dupes are simply keeping the advertisement on the front page of the main forum. Actually helping a gold seller advertise.... "noble intent" aside.

Gold sellers know why they are disliked. They know these posts won't change anyone's point of view. There is absolutely no reason for discussing it. My hope was this entire thread to be obliterated. But I'll settle for S&R.

 

[Canucklehead73]

Curious as to why some people dislike them so much.

1. They don't affect your gameplay
2. There is a large playerbase who does appreciate them (casual & hardcore gamers)
3. Online games in which items that can be traded easily create jobs for people whether you like it or not
4. If EA wanted to discourage the selling of items, they would just set up a system like WOW in which high end items must be earned and cannot be bought

Knowing these 4 facts, I am just wondering if there are any legitimate reasons to dislike certain people, other than them being rude?

**Keep in mind I am NOT talking about dupers, just gold sellers in general**

1. they do affect my gameplay
2. a large amount of the playerbase do NOT appreciate gold sellers
3. online games are just that, games, not job banks for poor shmucks
4. they dont want to discourage selling of items, just selling for RL money.

5. You should be banned... From UO and stratics. you bring nothing to the game but greed and lazy players... Get a real job you loser!

 

[Tycolby]

EA should share the wealth if Obama gets elected. If I have to pay higher taxes to make life easier for all the lazy ppl who dont work hard in life then the gold sellers should be Taxed in the same manner.

They say it doesnt hurt anyone but in reality it does. It breeds more laziness in young players who only scream when they dont get what they want. They want things now from doing absolutly nothing. Which of course the gold seller gives them. So now these young players dont have the experience to play the temps out there so what do they do? Well they go and get the lastest cheats and hacks to make up for the lack of skills they dont have.

So now we have the beginings of the next dupers/gold seller. He will now buy the next hot item and learn to dupe and sell-sell-sell-sell!!!!!!!!! All of this because you sold him 10mil. Gee Thx for ruining the game for all those ppl who bought them hammers and got ban for buying them.

 

[UOKaiser]

Im reading this topic and am getting confused are we talking about gold sellers or EA. EA doesnt care about the game just youre money, Ea sells items for real money, Ea doesnt generate any items they sell through regular game play they just poof it out of thin air ruining the economy dont you think? Ea considers this a job and not a game at all.
Either way just trying to clarify whats the difference between selling items from ea or selling youre or someone else time to gain the items to a willing buyer then trading said item.

 

[GFY]

Ok here's what I don't like about gold sellers.

1) They DO effect game play because a total noob can buy 100 million gold and dump it into the economy without having to do anything to earn it. This drives up the prices of all items as gold flows into the economy completely unchecked.

2) Casual players like them because they can join a game, spend a few bucks and suddenly *TA DA* they have the same or more and or better items that a player who actually plays the game doesn't even have yet. Players come in buy everything then lose interest in the game because they have everything handed to them.

3) Online games can create jobs but what happens when the game dev's deciede that the game has run it's course and ends it. You move on to another game you care nothing about because it's all just a JOB for you.

4) Ea can do whatever it feels is necessary for the game. Getting player a start in the game and giving them some decent stuff TO START WITH is one thing but having sellers douping rare items and anything else they can sell for a profit just ruins the game for everyone else.

5) Watching people run bots and loot the game of it's resources when the rest of us are just trying to play is my last rant. It's a pain watching some scripter getting the resources I'm trying to get while actually playing the game by the ROC. I see no redeeming qualities to anyone that sells virtual items for real cash. They just ruin the game for everyone.

 

[Aran]

I love selling gold, back in the day it saved me from having to do so much real life work, how could I hate gold sellers for keeping up the good work?

I just wish gold prices were higher, so I could get back into it and actually profit.