Why do all other MMOs fall short of UO?

[UO Crazed]

I believe the answer to be: complexity.

I've played a lot of the other MMOs and noticed something all of them share in common...good graphics and nothing much else. Take for instance WOW or WAR, while they both have good graphics, they don't let you do too much else. For instance, in UO, I can place something on the ground and run around for a few minutes and think, oh s**t I really do need that item, and retrieve it before it decays. Heck, I can even see the item I placed on the ground. In WAR, you drop something, it's gone for good and not visable.

So yah, those other MMOs run smooth because...there's really nothing going on behind the scenes. You have a nice background with a character - that's about it. Everything is in your pack and non-lootable - simple really. You think these other games would let you grow plants or even own an aquarium in a house you built tile-by-tile, I think not - it's too complex to work into a simple system like WOW or WAR. Attention to detail is what UO is about in the first place. I mean really, ever see a corpse decay to bones on any other MMO? In WAR, there's a body there one minute and 'poof' gone the next - kind of like the game wants to take a short cut to any detail that would make it seem more immersive. How about stacking a bunch of crap to make your own maze of sorts? Although it seems like a useless thing to do, you CAN do it in UO - not those other games.

Of course these other games have millions of subscribers, but I think numbers do not make for a great game - just happy executives. I for one love the complexity of UO.

 

[Cailleach]

The reason the others have so many players is because they're so simple. UO has a depth and complexity that I don't think you'll find anywhere else in the MMO world. This is something that works both for and against it. For, because there are those (me included) who thrive on the challenge of working it all out and learning all the time. Against because it can be so totally overwhelming and because you have to actually have to put in some time and effort to train your skills.

Draconi, if you're reading this, could I please draw your attention to the 'new player experience' sticky and ask you to take a few minutes to read it? New players are what we need and we need to keep them, not have them play a little then bugger off to somewhere else. We need to come up with a way to help them settle into the game and folks like Paidric, or even me, have only so many hours in the day and mine are getting shorter as I've just started a new job. So 4 kids, 2 jobs, 2 message boards, one guild, there's only so much we can do, help!

 

[Morgana LeFay (PoV)]

It's the 'macaroni and cheese' graphics. Everyone luvs 'em!

 

[Kariny]

It's the 'macaroni and cheese' graphics. Everyone luvs 'em!

I guess I never considered the graphics like comfort food but they are!


Always nice to know there's a game around that doesn't rely solely on grahics.

 

[GAMBIT35]

Games that are healthy and got something going on don't have boards were the players are constantly re-assuring themselves about how much they love the game.

 

[Cailleach]

Games that are healthy and got something going on don't have boards were the players are constantly re-assuring themselves about how much they love the game.

So go play one?

 

[Duskofdead]

I believe the answer to be: complexity.

I've played a lot of the other MMOs and noticed something all of them share in common...good graphics and nothing much else. Take for instance WOW or WAR, while they both have good graphics, they don't let you do too much else. For instance, in UO, I can place something on the ground and run around for a few minutes and think, oh s**t I really do need that item, and retrieve it before it decays. Heck, I can even see the item I placed on the ground. In WAR, you drop something, it's gone for good and not visable.

So yah, those other MMOs run smooth because...there's really nothing going on behind the scenes. You have a nice background with a character - that's about it. Everything is in your pack and non-lootable - simple really. You think these other games would let you grow plants or even own an aquarium in a house you built tile-by-tile, I think not - it's too complex to work into a simple system like WOW or WAR. Attention to detail is what UO is about in the first place. I mean really, ever see a corpse decay to bones on any other MMO? In WAR, there's a body there one minute and 'poof' gone the next - kind of like the game wants to take a short cut to any detail that would make it seem more immersive. How about stacking a bunch of crap to make your own maze of sorts? Although it seems like a useless thing to do, you CAN do it in UO - not those other games.

Of course these other games have millions of subscribers, but I think numbers do not make for a great game - just happy executives. I for one love the complexity of UO.

One of the earliest reviews of World of Warcraft put it in a way I felt was really true after 3 years of playing it. The game feels like you're exploring the themed areas of an amusement park. Here's grassy valley land. Here's spooky haunted land. Here's volcanic land. And the big characters from the game backstory and previous installments of Warcraft are like big automated waving lifesize likenesses of the Disney characters. And the world has about as much depth, and player actions have about as much impact on the world they are in, as a tourist in an amusement park.

 

[GAMBIT35]

Uh oh, the envious WoW haters are coming out of the woodwork.

 

[Wakiza]

Games that are healthy and got something going on don't have boards were the players are constantly re-assuring themselves about how much they love the game.

Every single MMO forum i have ever seen, and i have seen alot of them, is full of people complaining about one thing or another. Find one any different.

It would be not normal if people were'nt complaining... lets face it, alot of us like to complain.

I agree with the OP as i have tried just about all the other MMORPG's. Even though for me, UO has lost some of what it was years ago, it still has something the others don't have.

 

[Duskofdead]

Uh oh, the envious WoW haters are coming out of the woodwork.

Excuse me? Blizzard got monthly payments from me for more than 36 months plus I bought two game packages from them. But, I have a negative opinion after ample time playing their game, so I'm just an envious hater? Okay.

By the same logic, I could just say you're an obsessed fanboi.

 

[Duskofdead]

Games that are healthy and got something going on don't have boards were the players are constantly re-assuring themselves about how much they love the game.

I love how you think that characterization would not fit WOW. Even when I stopped playing, over one year ago, the WOW forums were full of people who were still posting and arguing and talking about the game, but were on inactive accounts in protest of this, or that, or didn't like Burning Crusade, or were fed up with their class being broken, or Horde imbalances in AV.... the list goes on really.

As far as a single gamer's lifespan / patience for a particular MMO goes, WOW is getting up there in age too. A lot of people have burned out on it but can't quite totally walk away. That's the nature of the beast (MMO addiction). Acting like WOW players are somehow above this and UO players are not is pretty funny. Hey wait, wasn't it a WOW player who died in a net cafe? And a WOW couple that were playing in a net cafe while their baby suffocated? Oh snap.

 

[JC the Builder]

Games that are healthy and got something going on don't have boards were the players are constantly re-assuring themselves about how much they love the game.

Have you ever looked at the World of Warcraft forums?

 

[Duskofdead]

Have you ever looked at the World of Warcraft forums?

Seriously. If you think the "I'm quitting, and no don't ask for my stuff" threads are bad here, read WOW's forums.

But then again quitting in WOW isn't even anywhere near as much fun, because everything worth having is soulbound to your character anyway, and cannot be given away to another player.

 

[Sephy]

PVP is the only thing keeping me in uo atm, played so many templates over the years and todays pvp scene is so varied it gives me the opportunity to make some stupid templates that gimp people and is kinda fun trying to make chars so gimp they can take out newbie ganks, most of the people I know live for pvp so I'm gona cast my vote on pvp being the only reason other than the invasions ( lol ) in this game sets it apart from others, the pvp on other MMo's is sucky in my opnion

 

[Duskofdead]

PVP is the only thing keeping me in uo atm, played so many templates over the years and todays pvp scene is so varied it gives me the opportunity to make some stupid templates that gimp people and is kinda fun trying to make chars so gimp they can take out newbie ganks, most of the people I know live for pvp so I'm gona cast my vote on pvp being the only reason other than the invasions ( lol ) in this game sets it apart from others, the pvp on other MMo's is sucky in my opnion

Know what though, nothing against you, this is what PvP'ers have said since the very very beginning of UO. "PvP is the only thing worth playing in this game."

It's not something wrong with the game that you're bored or dislike the non-PvP stuff. It's the fact that... you're a PvP'er.

 

[Cyrah]

I always thought it was because we had nicer players. I do not think that anymore after today.

We can do many things in UO that seem simple on the surface. Yet can be made as complicated as we individually want them to be.

I think UO has the best houses and that alone keeps some players. Me for example.

 

[Turdnugget]

PvP is what i've always enjoyed about UO... Played EQ but the only way to PvP on a non-PvP server is by asking for a duel...no fun if you can't suprise attack someone.

Lineage II is the only other game that i've actually enjoyed PvP.

The great thing abou UO is that it's so versatile in what style of character you can have. It's not class based. You're not stuck being a mage, or a ranger, or a beastlord, or a paladin etc... but you can pick and choose if you want to be a spell casting ranger... or a undead summoning dexer.

I've always come back to UO for it's pure enjoyment that you can do and be whatever you want (pretty much)

 

[HD2300]

UO has survived because PvPers and PvMers both had a end game.

PvPers fight for powerscrolls, and PvMers killed monsters to get great items. PvPers get powerscrolls which PvMers need. PvMers got great items that PvPers needed. Both were equally rewarded for time spent in their playstyle of choice.

 

[Petrify]

If there is ever going to be a contender for the rush you get when playing UO,
http://forums.darkfallonline.com/.

 

[MalagAste]

UO has what other games do not even come close to offering...... I agree with the poster who said most games are like an amusement park and you have about that much effect on them......

UO is my game.... I have my town..... I built my home.... I found that plot of land and I built on it.... I can become immersed in the game because I can have an effect on my surroundings..... more so than in any other game..... And YES it's about the little details...... shearing sheep for example..... You see the fluffy sheep.... You shear it ...... and TaDa! The sheep isn't so fluffy..... The body decays... and turns to bones.....

If your good with your imagination you can do just about anything in-game you set your mind to.... Most other games make you follow cookie cutter patterns.... your characters template isn't that flexible..... Certainly in many games you wouldn't see a Fisher/Mage/Inscriptioning Spellweaver.....

How about a lowly beggar??? Can you tip cows in those other games??? UO has a sense of awe about it..... going far beyond the pixel crack.... I don't care about graphics.... I want to feel I am a part of the game...... I don't want to go on endless quests... I want to make my own adventures..... Sure some of those others have some pretty awesome looks but that's about all they've got...

 

[rockytriton]

Sorry, I didn't read all the other posts, so I don't know if anyone mentioned this or not, but my reason is simple:

FREEDOM

You can choose whatever you want, hell you can have a mage/herder/theif/warrior if you want. I like to be able to pick and choose the skills I want for my character and have them go up and down. It's very flexible.

 

[Ender]

Lord of the Rings Online > UO

Especially since our devs don't give a ****.

 

[Duskofdead]

UO has what other games do not even come close to offering...... I agree with the poster who said most games are like an amusement park and you have about that much effect on them......

UO is my game.... I have my town..... I built my home.... I found that plot of land and I built on it.... I can become immersed in the game because I can have an effect on my surroundings..... more so than in any other game..... And YES it's about the little details...... shearing sheep for example..... You see the fluffy sheep.... You shear it ...... and TaDa! The sheep isn't so fluffy..... The body decays... and turns to bones.....

If your good with your imagination you can do just about anything in-game you set your mind to.... Most other games make you follow cookie cutter patterns.... your characters template isn't that flexible..... Certainly in many games you wouldn't see a Fisher/Mage/Inscriptioning Spellweaver.....

How about a lowly beggar??? Can you tip cows in those other games??? UO has a sense of awe about it..... going far beyond the pixel crack.... I don't care about graphics.... I want to feel I am a part of the game...... I don't want to go on endless quests... I want to make my own adventures..... Sure some of those others have some pretty awesome looks but that's about all they've got...

Exactly, this sounds SO MINOR when you list it as an item, but seriously, psychologically, it is such a huge difference: being able to put down, and move things around, on the ground.

This of course is essential for the housing system and decorating a home.

But even outside of house design, it's such a huge difference in terms of the feel of the game. I mean, I know what someone was crafting when I see items laying around. New players can make really fantastic, lucky finds when some rich player with a full house and bank starts putting valuble stuff on the ground to make room. Games like World of Warcraft have an auctionhouse where, if you want to PURCHASE something from another player, you can do it through an automated third party system in-game. However, what's one man's trash is another man's treasure. I can't tell you how many times I've passed through Haven and seen reg bags thrown on the ground cause some new character didn't need them and my alchemist snatched them up. (Hey, that's like, 20, 30, 40 free potions!) Even being able to pull up some chairs at a fishing spot is great for ambience and definitely great for RP purposes.

When I started WOW, I seriously thought I was doing something wrong when I would try to set something on the ground and it would pop back in my inventory, or ask if I wanted to destroy it. I mean.... I understand, from a server stability point of view, why that might be good to not allow players to litter. But what a sanitized, controlled, curbed-in game experience it is to literally have zero impact on your environment, other than killing monsters. It felt like a big step backwards, and psychologically, it was that feeling of less freedom. And it didn't just apply to putting things on the ground.

 

[THP]

Hey lets dig in the trenches ....UO is still the daddy!!!!!

The graphics come second to gameplay- always have and always will..

Find me another game that can last over 10 years online...

UO = No1

 

[Ender]

To be quite honest, UO's gameplay is mediocre. Would be great if it wasn't so damn boring to train some skills. And any game that has PvP that is dominated by cheats has fail gameplay... So bad graphics and bad gameplay doesn't make UO look that good :/

Also, WoW will last over 10 years. And I'm pretty sure the original Asheron's Call is still kicking, and that's gotta be close to 10 by now.

 

[phantus]

Lord of the Rings Online > UO

Especially since our devs don't give a ****.

*coughs* Ahem *coughs*

How many of their devs used to work on UO?

 

[Arch Magus]

UO is certainly the greatest MMO of all time, if not the greatest game.

Like the OP said, the unique layout of the game is what makes it.
Dropping items, moving things, housing, the way you can see people talk with text over their head. The skills and how you raise them. Pure freedom to do whatever you want. Roleplayer's paradise.

Even on a newb character you could run your way to the hardest places in the game.

I love all of it.

 

[Arch Magus]

If there is ever going to be a contender for the rush you get when playing UO,
http://forums.darkfallonline.com/.

Soon and very soon..
You gonna play on the EU server when it comes out? Jan 22.

 

[Harlequin]

UO has survived because PvPers and PvMers both had a end game.

PvPers fight for powerscrolls, and PvMers killed monsters to get great items. PvPers get powerscrolls which PvMers need. PvMers got great items that PvPers needed. Both were equally rewarded for time spent in their playstyle of choice.

I know you meant end game different, but why I think UO is so incredible is that there's no endgame. No char level 99 to reach and then that's it, you don't use that char anymore.

There's so much diversity that you can always try something else.

 

[Morgana LeFay (PoV)]

I know you meant end game different, but why I think UO is so incredible is that there's no endgame. No char level 99 to reach and then that's it, you don't use that char anymore.

There's so much diversity that you can always try something else.

What he said!!

 

[Prince Caspian]

1 - Ownable real estate
2 - Interactive complex environment, a hallmark of Ultima, not just Ultima Online.
3 - A simple attribute system that isn't lifted right out of Dungeons and Dragons.
4 - A rich history that other MMORPGs dont even come close to matching (I mean there's a decade of Britannia history before UO)
5 - The occasional dynamite storyline this current staff comes up with.
6 - Traditions such as Treasures of Tokuno, Christmas Gifts, etc.
7 - A relatively well-balanced skill system that isn't just limited to smashing monsters.
8 - Antecdotes way funnier than Leeeroy.

 

[SoulWeaver]

The reason this game doesnt have so many subscribers anymore is E.A lost interest in advertising the game. Advertising the expansions that they come out with and putting the acutal game in stores. Advertising is all about it dragging new customers in to try it out.... If they did that you'd see big increases in UO again... Hopefully they do something with this next expansion coming out.

 

[Prince Caspian]

EA isn't interested in UO as a flagship product any more. I think mostly its because the game is old and isometric games are often viewed as passe.

I think the fact it has lasted so long under EA's watch is that we the remaining playerbase are committed to the game.

 

[Duskofdead]

1 - Ownable real estate
2 - Interactive complex environment, a hallmark of Ultima, not just Ultima Online.
3 - A simple attribute system that isn't lifted right out of Dungeons and Dragons.
4 - A rich history that other MMORPGs dont even come close to matching (I mean there's a decade of Britannia history before UO)
5 - The occasional dynamite storyline this current staff comes up with.
6 - Traditions such as Treasures of Tokuno, Christmas Gifts, etc.
7 - A relatively well-balanced skill system that isn't just limited to smashing monsters.
8 - Antecdotes way funnier than Leeeroy.

I was overly excited that in the Gareth quest for the Cloak of Humility, I was able to answer all the questions without referring to an online guide for the answers, just because I played previous Ultima games and remembered Humility was black, its sign was the crook (Katrina), etc. etc.

My guildmates were like "whoa..... you're like a living Ultima vet." haha

 

[Canucklehead73]

I believe the answer to be: complexity.

I've played a lot of the other MMOs and noticed something all of them share in common...good graphics and nothing much else. Take for instance WOW or WAR, while they both have good graphics, they don't let you do too much else. For instance, in UO, I can place something on the ground and run around for a few minutes and think, oh s**t I really do need that item, and retrieve it before it decays. Heck, I can even see the item I placed on the ground. In WAR, you drop something, it's gone for good and not visable.

Yeah I made a thread about this a while back when I first tried warhammer over at my buddies house, I said to him... Man if UO had half assed decent graphics and a shelf presence UO would kill these guy's hands down...

 

[Ender]

*coughs* Ahem *coughs*

How many of their devs used to work on UO?

Dunno. But they're not here anymore, are they? And that's what matters.