Who wants a PKer-free non-AoS Classic Shard?

[Unsatisfied]

I apologize for the 'youngster' slipping into that post. Wasn't relevant to the discussion.

You clearly feel a game without non-consensual PvP can't be fun. I, and the many others who play in Tram clearly feel otherwise.

Let the evidence of where most players play settle the issue.

Stop bringing up "where most people play" as an argument, this new classic shard, if actually built is more than likely a ploy to get some old players back to uo. These old players that it will attract are the ones who quit because they dont like tram. How many of them do you think a tram based classic shard will bring back to UO?

theres still 30 shards with tram were not taking that away from you, Let us have our classic shard the way classic was. Felucia.

There is nothing "classic" about tramell

 

[WarUltima]

The title for this post is just...... LOL

First of all there's nothing classic about trammie land.

2nd, people wanted classic shards wanted old style PvP back which directly translates to PvP. And trammie land has nothing to do with PvP.

3rd, PK and classic goes in pairs. There's no classic shard without PKer.

4th, whether you like it or not, tram didnt exist when UO was released.

5th, as a vet player I will bored to my death if I have to play UO in its current form without PvP. And classic shard without PvP? LOL you are out of your mind, you have any idea how boring you would be? It will be so plain that makes tic tac toe seem ultra complicated.

If you are a pro trammie, anti-pvp or anti-fel or anti-PK player, you should be the last one to talk about UO in its original CLASSIC form.

 

[Tanivar]

Stop bringing up "where most people play" as an argument, this new classic shard, if actually built is more than likely a ploy to get some old players back to uo. These old players that it will attract are the ones who quit because they dont like tram.

Tram removed the non-PvPers from Fel. Those that left UO over this clearly didn't find the game fun with just PvPers in Fel to attack. Making a classic shard with fel rules will only draw back enough of those players to drive any AOS hating non-PvPers back to the AOS tainted shard they came from, or to the point they leave the game. Then those who returned due to the classic shard will leave again for the same reason they left the first time.

How many of them do you think a tram based classic shard will bring back to UO?

I would say Crafting Players may return. Many left when it was clear that player crafters couldn't compete with monster loot without putting in a lot of hours farming the BOD system for the way to rare, few use runic tools.

Many who left over the focus on Items may return. A classic shard wouldn't have the supermonsters added to give the uber-gear players a challege and the arms race that became. The game no longer being skill-based was a common complaint until the complainers left UO.

theres still 30 shards with tram were not taking that away from you, Let us have our classic shard the way classic was. Felucia.

Those 30 shards are all tainted with AOS. A Tram ruleset Classic Shard would not be.

How many players who come & go might come back & stay if the AOS taint was gone from the game? Probably a lot. Both PvM & PvPers.

There is nothing "classic" about tramell

A matter of opinion. Again, where are the bulk of the players playing? It's likely that where most played, is where most left from over AOS. To boost the bottom line the most, EA will want the effort they put into a Classic Shard to draw back as many players as possible.

 

[Heartseeker]

What amazes me about the Classic Shard game is how much more dynamic it was.

And it isn't the pk's, well not just them.

What is awesome is that the land is literally infested with monsters.

There is overland spawns everywhere and no safe places, but towns.

It's been so long that I forgot what a blast it was trying just to survive.

All monsters are way tougher; eg. it takes more arrows to kill a Ettin than it takes to kill a lot of the monsters today.

Crafters in the woods have their hands full.

Man, I just didn't realize how Trammel has changed everything to extra easy/safe mode.

Classic = Challenging Adventure

 

[Kaleb]

The Classic Shard topic has been pretty much taken over by the Pker crowd. So here's one for the PvM crowd who don't want to wind up endlessly PKed if they go to the PKer Classic Shard to escape AoS.

I figure those tired of the Item-based game will go to the Classic Shard PKland and be fun for the PKers for a while, then quit playing entirely.

Who would like a skill-based Classic Shard with the Trammel ruleset so we can play without being PKed as normal play? I'm one who is willing to pay a monthly fee to have fun myself, but not pay just to be fun for others.

Ok first off, I want a tram free classic shard and I do not play a PK character(s), Its not about that to me and many many others, its about the thrill the game had back then so please do not generalize us. but on the same token to me it would be fair if they did make the counter part to a Fel classic shard.

 

[Trebr Drab]

Stop bringing up "where most people play" as an argument, this new classic shard, if actually built is more than likely a ploy to get some old players back to uo. These old players that it will attract are the ones who quit because they dont like tram.

Tram removed the non-PvPers from Fel. Those that left UO over this clearly didn't find the game fun with just PvPers in Fel to attack. Making a classic shard with fel rules will only draw back enough of those players to drive any AOS hating non-PvPers back to the AOS tainted shard they came from, or to the point they leave the game. Then those who returned due to the classic shard will leave again for the same reason they left the first time.

How many of them do you think a tram based classic shard will bring back to UO?

I would say Crafting Players may return. Many left when it was clear that player crafters couldn't compete with monster loot without putting in a lot of hours farming the BOD system for the way to rare, few use runic tools.

Many who left over the focus on Items may return. A classic shard wouldn't have the supermonsters added to give the uber-gear players a challege and the arms race that became. The game no longer being skill-based was a common complaint until the complainers left UO.

theres still 30 shards with tram were not taking that away from you, Let us have our classic shard the way classic was. Felucia.

Those 30 shards are all tainted with AOS. A Tram ruleset Classic Shard would not be.

How many players who come & go might come back & stay if the AOS taint was gone from the game? Probably a lot. Both PvM & PvPers.

There is nothing "classic" about tramell

A matter of opinion. Again, where are the bulk of the players playing? It's likely that where most played, is where most left from over AOS. To boost the bottom line the most, EA will want the effort they put into a Classic Shard to draw back as many players as possible.

Some good points, Tanivar.
I'd still prefer a justice system that works to hold down PKing for several reasons. I think that way UO would get the crafters back as well as the true PvPers, as opposed to the PKers who just want to gank and loot.

 

[Santa Claus]

Would PK free mean no factions?
No guilod wars?
Would it have Order Chaos?

I never understood the pvper crowd who had 3 systems and still needed to go red, but then those really loved to pvp.

Introduce a meaningful pvp system .. steal it from daoc if you must or shadowbane then use a facet for it or make one.

 

[Trebr Drab]

Would PK free mean no factions?
No guilod wars?
Would it have Order Chaos?

I never understood the pvper crowd who had 3 systems and still needed to go red, but then those really loved to pvp.

Introduce a meaningful pvp system .. steal it from daoc if you must or shadowbane then use a facet for it or make one.

Yeah, I never understood why guild wars didn't satisfy them.

But another thing you get with "PK free" is all the griefers who ruin events in any way possible outside of PKing and Stealing. If a shard is active, like in the old days, these people would be around just as much as they used to be. Heck, I even saw them regularly ruin GM events. This is why I want a justice system that works, because that can allow for players to take care of these idiots themselves. You also get the ability to roleplay more realistically, in a game world that doesn't have artificial restrictions that tell you you can't do something that you should be able to do.

 

[Multani]

Everytime I go to trammel it seems to me that I always encounter some ******* trammy thinking he's something spectacular and decides to try and lure monsters on me, or steal my kills just trying to be an all around ****. These people deserve to be pked, not have the luxary to sit in their safe environment just waiting for you to leave so they can hunt there alone. In an Online Game I am a strong believer in player justice.


Killing other players helped keep the economy fairly solid, as if you died you would have to get more Reagents / Armor / Weapons. In turn this would spread the gold out to the crafters / merchants / npc's and other professions. Tamers could make a profit taming and selling pets even low end ones like horses / ostards / rideable llama's. Basically you used to have spend the money you earned as you got it.

Player Killers built reputation's by killing miners and stuff, I bet you can still remember some of the names of the players who killed you and took your vanquishing weapon or the ingots you just mined. Then going to the bank and trying to organize a group of anti-pks to go hunt them down and try to get revenge.

 

[UOKaiser]

Everytime I go to trammel it seems to me that I always encounter some ******* trammy thinking he's something spectacular and decides to try and lure monsters on me, or steal my kills just trying to be an all around ****. These people deserve to be pked, not have the luxary to sit in their safe environment just waiting for you to leave so they can hunt there alone. In an Online Game I am a strong believer in player justice.


Killing other players helped keep the economy fairly solid, as if you died you would have to get more Reagents / Armor / Weapons. In turn this would spread the gold out to the crafters / merchants / npc's and other professions. Tamers could make a profit taming and selling pets even low end ones like horses / ostards / rideable llama's. Basically you used to have spend the money you earned as you got it.

Player Killers built reputation's by killing miners and stuff, I bet you can still remember some of the names of the players who killed you and took your vanquishing weapon or the ingots you just mined. Then going to the bank and trying to organize a group of anti-pks to go hunt them down and try to get revenge.

When your in trammel you are a trammie. Remmeber that even if you there for a minute. Those that lure monsters on you are usually fellucians that come from luring is ok area in felluccia and hate trammel players so they lure monsters on you. Anybody that plays in trammel and barely travels to felluccia don't bother with these things they have no interest in killing other players.

 

[Magdalene]

Felucca, feluccan... geeeezzz...

 

[Nastia Cross]

When your in trammel you are a trammie. Remmeber that even if you there for a minute. Those that lure monsters on you are usually fellucians that come from luring is ok area in felluccia and hate trammel players so they lure monsters on you. Anybody that plays in trammel and barely travels to felluccia don't bother with these things they have no interest in killing other players.

LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!

Are you serious, dude? I've seen some of the most hard-core "Trammy" players lure spawn, especially when they feel someone has invaded their territory.

 

[UOKaiser]

LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!

Are you serious, dude? I've seen some of the most hard-core "Trammy" players lure spawn, especially when they feel someone has invaded their territory.

Yep am serious. I hunted griefters for a whole year once. Most of them made there homes in fel. If it's a trammie that did that is because the fel player that invaded there area did not follow the tram silent code of waiting your turn or if a spawn is taken by another head to the next spawn spot. Fellucia code for that situation is the strong takes over the weak leaves.

 

[Tukaram]

Actually it would be very fun.

Seriously, look where most of the players play. They are in Tram, Not Fel.

Fel is a Ghost Town because most players prefer not being PKed.

Yeah, and there are things to do in tram. In the pre aos world...there were not. You sat behind the wall in hythloth, and cast evs, till the pks showed up, or you sat at the brit forge making new items for people who had been pked.

That was about it, and without the pks... it would be even MORE dull.

No one would play this shard...other than you I guess.

Dude I'd be there in a flash! My favorite time in the game was LBR/Pub 16 (right before or right after is fine with me). And I started playing this game way back in the oldie timey days of nineteen hundred and ninety-seven. I fight critters for the fun. I don't farm but I do collect the loot (I still collect armor and weapons off critters to sell to the NPC's). Best fun for me is Demons, Solens, and Fishing.

While we are dreaming I want to get the LBR era 3D art back. That was before they ruined all the background by making it look like the 2D. We had great paperdolls, better monsters, and a more 3D ground. (It ain't happening but it would be fun... I wonder if I could set up my own private use server with the old art?)

The Pre-AOS armor and weapons were great. But I'm still having fun now.

 

[Kallie Pigeon]

There is lots of talk about risk verses reward but in my perspective there is no risk or reward ....it's a game. The real question is what type of play you enjoy. That is YOU not me or anyone else but YOU. If you enjoy it go for it and if not then go for what YOU enjoy. I enjoy playing UO without any versions of PVP. This is what I enjoy. You may may say there is no risk.....it's freaking game there is no risk. I enjoy my style of play. PVP attracts the worst types of players and I can't see anything that would attract me to play in a non consensual PVP game at least none that have been figured out so far. Actually I am happy playing in Trammel but if there was a Trammel only shard I would give it a good look. In real life I take risks, real risks, this game doesn't thrill me like that but I do enjoy taking risks just like I do in real life. I die a little more often in the game but oh well it's all just pixels so it doesn't matter.

 

[phantus]

LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!

Are you serious, dude? I've seen some of the most hard-core "Trammy" players lure spawn, especially when they feel someone has invaded their territory.

Yep am serious. I hunted griefters for a whole year once. Most of them made there homes in fel. If it's a trammie that did that is because the fel player that invaded there area did not follow the tram silent code of waiting your turn or if a spawn is taken by another head to the next spawn spot. Fellucia code for that situation is the strong takes over the weak leaves.

Truth is spoken here.

 

[Tanivar]

Ok first off, I want a tram free classic shard and I do not play a PK character(s), Its not about that to me and many many others, its about the thrill the game had back then so please do not generalize us. but on the same token to me it would be fair if they did make the counter part to a Fel classic shard.

I'm not generalizing. I refer to PKers & PvPers as seperate groups. Go through this thread and reread my posts for what I've said. Skip over the other posts.

Lines from my last post:

"Tram removed the non-PvPers from Fel. Those that left UO over this clearly didn't find the game fun with just PvPers in Fel to attack." (This should have been worded better, but the rest of the line shows I feel they are seperate groups.)

"How many players who come & go might come back & stay if the AOS taint was gone from the game? Probably a lot. Both PvM & PvPers."

The title of this thread is Who wants a PKer-free non-AoS Classic Shard? Pker free , non-AOS.

My posts in this thread and the other Classic Shard Threads have those two points in them Pker free , non-AOS. I don't care if a new classic shard has a Fel facet. If there is a Tram facet, we can have PKer-free play. My main focus is to have an AOS free shard. A skill-based, item-focus-free shard. A shard where Crafters have a game, where what they can craft without runics, is better than most of the items found as loot from minor league monsters.

My time in fel years back left me with a poor opinion of PKers, not PvPers. There is a clear difference between those two groups as a rule. PvPers rate a respect PKers in no way do. PvPers are warriors who take on other warriors, not PKers who get their thrills slaughtering non-warriors.

That is a serious difference.

 

[Uvtha]

Why would we need non-pvpers to hunt? You are perpetuating the sterio-type that all PvPers were noob killers, which is completely untrue.

PvPers are those who seek others to fight with. Why do you need people who do not like to PvP to engage in PvP? As long as there are other players, there will be someone to engage in PvP against. And if those players are indeed true PvPers then the combat will be good and engrossing and will make for a high quality experience.

I personally would rather fight against seasoned and experienced PvPers than fight someone who doesnt know what they are doing. It keeps things interesting. A challenge keeps people coming back. Its the staleness of easymode that made people lose interest.

If anything would make a classic server boring is if the non-PvPers did play. Because, as soon as you kill one, they will be right here on the forums or paging a GM and the river of tears and griefer cries will begin.

So what if the non-PvPers stay on the AOS shards? Good riddance. The classic server will attract the PvP minded, those who seek danger and excitement. We will fight with and compete against and work with eachother, testing our skills against people who know what they are doing.

And that is REAL PvP.

Yeah...they did like to hunt pvmers. They still do. If you disagree you are really not familiar with the classic setting, or an open pvp setting in general. I was there, I saw it daily. I had no problem with it, its part of the game, which is why I play on siege.

You mistake my contention that there will be people who want to be "PKS" (as opposed to "pvpers") with there will ONLY be pkers. I know full well there will be people who want even fights. But you yourself claim that the thing that made classic shards boring was those victims complaining, clearly there were plenty of them.

There will be pvpers, but it will be the same people, with the same precast explode hally-whack, whatever... how many tactics were there in classic UO? 4? 5? That many? And the rewards for fighting? Gm armor? Vanq sword? Who cares? The enjoyment will not be sustainable, and it wont be that dangerous, or that exciting. And as for the danger and excitement, thats what siege offers, and we all know how well siege's population is looking, and its not because of AOS properties on weapons.

Classic UO was the best, but that time has passed. Trying to go back there is not going to be a satisfying experience. It would be wiser to fight for growth and quality changes to the current game.

 

[Uvtha]

I apologize for the 'youngster' slipping into that post. Wasn't relevant to the discussion.

You clearly feel a game without non-consensual PvP can't be fun. I, and the many others who play in Tram clearly feel otherwise.

Let the evidence of where most players play settle the issue.

Clearly people prefer tram. It does NOT follow that a classic rule shard that was tram only...would be fun, and I really don't understand why you even think it would be. Life would be less interesting for all involved, ESPECIALLY for non pvp people.

 

[UOKaiser]

Yeah...they did like to hunt pvmers. They still do. If you disagree you are really not familiar with the classic setting, or an open pvp setting in general. I was there, I saw it daily. I had no problem with it, its part of the game, which is why I play on siege.

You mistake my contention that there will be people who want to be "PKS" (as opposed to "pvpers") with there will ONLY be pkers. I know full well there will be people who want even fights. But you yourself claim that the thing that made classic shards boring was those victims complaining, clearly there were plenty of them.

There will be pvpers, but it will be the same people, with the same precast explode hally-whack, whatever... how many tactics were there in classic UO? 4? 5? That many? And the rewards for fighting? Gm armor? Vanq sword? Who cares? The enjoyment will not be sustainable, and it wont be that dangerous, or that exciting. And as for the danger and excitement, thats what siege offers, and we all know how well siege's population is looking, and its not because of AOS properties on weapons.

Classic UO was the best, but that time has passed. Trying to go back there is not going to be a satisfying experience. It would be wiser to fight for growth and quality changes to the current game.

Fully agree.

 

[Tukaram]

Clearly people prefer tram. It does NOT follow that a classic rule shard that was tram only...would be fun, and I really don't understand why you even think it would be. Life would be less interesting for all involved, ESPECIALLY for non pvp people.

I disagree. I play Tram only right now. A pre-AOS server would be fun, even if I played the Tram side only. For me. Not for everyone.

I never liked the people I ran into in Fel. I did play Siege for a little while and the PvP'ers were mostly cool, and there were a lot less PK'ers than in Fel. On Siege they don't have Tram to hide in so they have to behave better I just don't enjoy PvP. Never have. (Though it was funny the night Sunsword came to visit us in Iantown and Rico PK'ed him.)

 

[Hanokh1967]

I would

 

[Tanivar]

Clearly people prefer tram. It does NOT follow that a classic rule shard that was tram only...would be fun,[/u].

rolleyes: Then your saying that people prefer Tram because it's not fun?

and I really don't understand why you even think it would be. Life would be less interesting for all involved, ESPECIALLY for non pvp people.

I think it would be because of my own experience with it, and from the opinions of others, many others. A big part of which is the lack of PKers (who for some reason keep calling themselves PvPers which is an insult to the true PvPers).

 

[Unsatisfied]

guys talk like only people from fel greif. This is the stupidest idea yet. Every game has greifers, if there was only ever tram you would still have griefers. And without the freedom of player justice, with out the freedom of being able to kill that greifer cos your stuck in tram, you just have to cop it on the chin and either leave or deal with it happening either way greifer is winning.

If you don't agree with me let's use wow as an example. There's no tram, no fel... But there are ninjas, why do they ninja? Grief. What can you do about it?nothing. Did they come specifically from fel on uo to grief people on wow? No.

 

[Uvtha]

rolleyes: Then your saying that people prefer Tram because it's not fun?

No, I am not saying that, nor did I even remotely suggest it. I think thats already been addressed like 254543253 times in this thread. There ARE things to do in tram now!!!! If you put in a pre aos tram there would NOT be. The MOST exciting thing you could hunt would be a balron, not a paragon balron mind you...just a balron.

I think it would be because of my own experience with it, and from the opinions of others, many others. A big part of which is the lack of PKers (who for some reason keep calling themselves PvPers which is an insult to the true PvPers).

I was there, it WAS fun... but it WASN'T fun because of the systems. It was fun because of novelty, and because of the strong communities (which yes, believe it or not, were created in part because of pks) and good players.

I mean basically just get the t2a disc, and play on the one player demo...thats what it would be like. Not fun.

 

[Uvtha]

I disagree. I play Tram only right now. A pre-AOS server would be fun, even if I played the Tram side only. For me. Not for everyone.

What would be fun about it? Hey, maybe I'm wrong, and people could enjoy something so boring, but It really seems to me that people are saying "The olden days were fun! Tram is fun! So clearly the two together will be fun!" without even trying to examine what the game would be like, or what made the game fun in the 90's.

For the record I don't think a fel based classic shard (or a mixed rule one either for that matter) would be very fun or successful either. I'm not like some mad pker, fel only maniac.

 

[Tukaram]

I did say something bad about Fel but I am sure there are some great folks there, I just haven't met any (but I spend no time there anymore so I never will).

As for the pre Tram days... I was there, it was NOT fun. Different people have a different ideas of fun though.

 

[Uvtha]

I did say something bad about Fel but I am sure there are some great folks there, I just haven't met any (but I spend no time there anymore so I never will).

As for the pre Tram days... I was there, it was NOT fun. Different people have a different ideas of fun though.

I'm confused then. You didn't like classic UO, who's only real arguable superiority (however slight) game content and system wise was that pvp was simpler, but you want to play a classic shard where those superiorities are not even present?

And I don't even care about fel. Say all the bad about it you want. The lameness or coolness of fel doesn't even factor in whether a tram shard with all of the years of content removed would be fun or not.

I want to be clear...I would not argue with a person who said "I want an all tram shard, it would be fun!" It's certainly not for me, but I CAN see how it could be fun. I am NOT anti-tram, fun wise, I do think a non tram rule set is vastly superior, but I am not like Anti tram. I understand that thats what most people are into.

 

[Tukaram]

I'm agreeing with the OP that a pre-AOS server would be fun for PvM. My favorite time ingame was the LBR era and Pub 16.

 

[Chardonnay]

The Classic Shard topic has been pretty much taken over by the Pker crowd. So here's one for the PvM crowd who don't want to wind up endlessly PKed if they go to the PKer Classic Shard to escape AoS.

I figure those tired of the Item-based game will go to the Classic Shard PKland and be fun for the PKers for a while, then quit playing entirely.

Who would like a skill-based Classic Shard with the Trammel ruleset so we can play without being PKed as normal play? I'm one who is willing to pay a monthly fee to have fun myself, but not pay just to be fun for others.

HELL YA

And when you kill a monster it drops gumdrops in Candyland...

 

[Unsatisfied]

HELL YA

And when you kill a monster it drops gumdrops in Candyland...

I think fluffy arms should poke out of the screen and give you a hug every time you die too... Just so you dont get too sad that you have to run to the healers, res, and go back to your body with almost no chance of losing anything cos its unlootable.

 

[Uvtha]

I'm agreeing with the OP that a pre-AOS server would be fun for PvM. My favorite time ingame was the LBR era and Pub 16.

Yeah...I got that. I just don't see why. I loved pvmin pre aos too, but like so many things I once liked, I don't know that I would enjoy it now. Especially after the same game has evolved vastly, and I would have the knowledge of what pvm (the variety, challenge, and rewards) is like now.

 

[UOKaiser]

guys talk like only people from fel greif. This is the stupidest idea yet. Every game has greifers, if there was only ever tram you would still have griefers. And without the freedom of player justice, with out the freedom of being able to kill that greifer cos your stuck in tram, you just have to cop it on the chin and either leave or deal with it happening either way greifer is winning.

If you don't agree with me let's use wow as an example. There's no tram, no fel... But there are ninjas, why do they ninja? Grief. What can you do about it?nothing. Did they come specifically from fel on uo to grief people on wow? No.

Actually WOW is a bad example. It is a primary pvp type game or competition type game. Actually I don't even thing theres a no pvp at all only server in WOW. Could be wrong. Still competition is encourage which brings jeaoulousy and boredom which brings griefs.
Anyway Im not saying all grief players are from fel. But most are at least in UO. Pkers get bored easily if they don't find something to do. They also have a resentment to the trammel playstyle and believe all in trammel are wussys or whatever they want. The popular word in this forum is carebare? Which makes those who consider themselves primary fellucians yet for some reason play in trammel look down on people who enjoy the quiet life of tram. Eventually seeking out those they believe are defenseless in trammel and find ways to kill,steal,keep them from doing what they want using there own rules or felluccian rules. Primary Trammel players are usually against competition in this sort and prefer to craft,collect,decorate,merchant,pvm,or socialize with ther time so they have no need to bother anybody else. Griefters find there way to fel mostly because they can kill and effect other people play there making them not pvp players but pkers.

Thus most griefters are from fel or consider fel there primary home. With some being from tram because they just have personanlity disorders but prefer trammel safety.

 

[Tukaram]

Mostly I still prefer the pre AOS armor and weapons. I do like our new lands, auto loot bodies, Solen/hag quests (new quests not so much). I'd rather have a warrior with plate, and mage with leather than the hassle of adding up points for resist/LMC/LRC/et al, and powerscrolls.

All they do is keep adding more powerful items then more powerful critters.


My son, who hated the PvP in UO, enjoyed PvP in WoW. The PvP was on a toggle and the opposing sides spoke different languages so there was no smack talk. I simply do not enjoy PvP in any form.

 

[Unsatisfied]

Thus most griefters are from fel or consider fel there primary home. With some being from tram because they just have personanlity disorders but prefer trammel safety.

tbh if 1% were from tram i still wouldnt care, not being able to do anything about griefers because of fluffy no negative acts rules is rediculous.

 

[Petra Fyde]

The poll is stickied at the top. For a pk-free classic vote for option 4 and stay in trammel if it's made. This thread is done.