I
imported_Edward The Less
Guest
Short and to the point, what is the biggest problem with Warriors at this time?
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Whats The Problem?
- Thread starter imported_Edward The Less
- Start date
- Watchers 0
B
Bo Riddler
Guest
Here is a thought, argue this.
I had a warrior and made it to 33rd level before I deleted him. I have a Rogue, I have taken her so far to 62nd level. Is it me or are Rogues by far a better fighter? I have my Rogue specced almost all Assassination and I don't even bother with stealth. I charge in with the best of them and do my fair share of damage.
My gear is no where near Epic but I am still around a 19% crit rating so I see some big numbers, even at just 62nd level. So what is the problem with Warriors?
God, they just seem like they were designed wrong. From top to bottom they are clunky and clanky. Specifics? Ok, the idea of rage is a good one, but while all the water drinking mana hounds are sipping Mage made water, a Warriors Rage is falling faster than my stock value in Enron.
How about a design build where the Warrior has a choice of 3 combat styles, similar to their stances but each combat style comes with more interactive combat moves. Using this theory, lets say we have a Warrior with Spear/Polearm skills. Under this style, he has a certain number of 'moves' he is able to use before he needs to rest or regroup. One move being 'Trip,' thats one move. Then 'death blow,' where the fighter attempts to finish off the fallen foe.
Yes, there would be some mechanical changes but one thing I have found with fans of Warriors, they are wanting more out of the combat sequence. Instead of click, click, click, how about letting them have some choices of moves, depending on several things. One being, if your first 'Trip' does knock them down, then they'd choose 'Death Blow' but if the target didn't fall, they could change tactics and go for 'Knee Kick.'
If I can reference a wonderful series of books, I would use Robert Jordan's "Wheel of Time" fighter mentality. From, "The Crane Dances on the Water," to "The Silent Snake," each style I assume is used in different situations.
Only my thoughts, but from my point of view, I found warriors blah, blah blah. They always are waiting on rage. Maybe I specced wrong but I wasn't impressed.
*Flame away*
Bo
I had a warrior and made it to 33rd level before I deleted him. I have a Rogue, I have taken her so far to 62nd level. Is it me or are Rogues by far a better fighter? I have my Rogue specced almost all Assassination and I don't even bother with stealth. I charge in with the best of them and do my fair share of damage.
My gear is no where near Epic but I am still around a 19% crit rating so I see some big numbers, even at just 62nd level. So what is the problem with Warriors?
God, they just seem like they were designed wrong. From top to bottom they are clunky and clanky. Specifics? Ok, the idea of rage is a good one, but while all the water drinking mana hounds are sipping Mage made water, a Warriors Rage is falling faster than my stock value in Enron.
How about a design build where the Warrior has a choice of 3 combat styles, similar to their stances but each combat style comes with more interactive combat moves. Using this theory, lets say we have a Warrior with Spear/Polearm skills. Under this style, he has a certain number of 'moves' he is able to use before he needs to rest or regroup. One move being 'Trip,' thats one move. Then 'death blow,' where the fighter attempts to finish off the fallen foe.
Yes, there would be some mechanical changes but one thing I have found with fans of Warriors, they are wanting more out of the combat sequence. Instead of click, click, click, how about letting them have some choices of moves, depending on several things. One being, if your first 'Trip' does knock them down, then they'd choose 'Death Blow' but if the target didn't fall, they could change tactics and go for 'Knee Kick.'
If I can reference a wonderful series of books, I would use Robert Jordan's "Wheel of Time" fighter mentality. From, "The Crane Dances on the Water," to "The Silent Snake," each style I assume is used in different situations.
Only my thoughts, but from my point of view, I found warriors blah, blah blah. They always are waiting on rage. Maybe I specced wrong but I wasn't impressed.
*Flame away*
Bo
G
Guest
Guest
A friend in our guild is combat specced Rogue and he tanks better than most warriors and holds aggro better...it's scary. But I dont know. Havent seen it in a real dicey situation yet
G
Guest
Guest
The biggest problem I have is... well it's me playing the character.
aj
aj
B
Bo Riddler
Guest
Ah come on aj, they may pick on you in OT, but here your liked.
I am sure you are a better Warrior than that.
Bo
I am sure you are a better Warrior than that.
Bo
G
Guest
Guest
<blockquote><hr>
Ah come on aj, they may pick on you in OT, but here your liked.
I am sure you are a better Warrior than that.
[/ QUOTE ]
My friends list is empty. I have no guild. I solo, have managed level 29 (almost at 30) and have the grand total of 10 gold pieces and a few odds and ends to my name.
I seem to be able to kill stuff about 2 levels above me tops, but I'm running out of things to do and places to go. I've pretty much done all there is to do at Thousand Needles and that big cratery place that I can't remember the name of; south of the crater and west of 1kN are beasties that are too high level for me to think about yet. I've gone up to Zoram Strand and headed north through Alliance territory and killed a few things but there isn't much around my level to do that I've found anywhere.
Last night, I was so bored I came across a level 16 alliance and I ended up helping him finish a quest of killing some bears in a cave somewhere. He was grateful - not just for the help but also that I didn't kill him - and it was fun, but I'm seriously lost on where I can go to do things that actually give me xp and help me level grind.
aj
Ah come on aj, they may pick on you in OT, but here your liked.
I am sure you are a better Warrior than that.
[/ QUOTE ]
My friends list is empty. I have no guild. I solo, have managed level 29 (almost at 30) and have the grand total of 10 gold pieces and a few odds and ends to my name.
I seem to be able to kill stuff about 2 levels above me tops, but I'm running out of things to do and places to go. I've pretty much done all there is to do at Thousand Needles and that big cratery place that I can't remember the name of; south of the crater and west of 1kN are beasties that are too high level for me to think about yet. I've gone up to Zoram Strand and headed north through Alliance territory and killed a few things but there isn't much around my level to do that I've found anywhere.
Last night, I was so bored I came across a level 16 alliance and I ended up helping him finish a quest of killing some bears in a cave somewhere. He was grateful - not just for the help but also that I didn't kill him - and it was fun, but I'm seriously lost on where I can go to do things that actually give me xp and help me level grind.
aj
B
Bo Riddler
Guest
Man, I so want to help, but it really sounds like your Horde and I am right next to clueless on Horde quests. The one thing I could say is, is that if you are around 30th level there are two areas you can try than would show you great success.
Desolace and Stranglethorn Vale. Both of those areas are perfect for your level. Desolace is easily reachable on the side of the map you are currently on, and STV is Booty Bay. There will be a few quests for you to grab in BB but more are in the camp to the north near the trolls, right in the middle of the map near the river fork.
Good for you too, for sticking to your guns on that server. Pvp servers would be a lot harder to do things, especially since STV is contested.
Yell if you need help aj.
Bo
Desolace and Stranglethorn Vale. Both of those areas are perfect for your level. Desolace is easily reachable on the side of the map you are currently on, and STV is Booty Bay. There will be a few quests for you to grab in BB but more are in the camp to the north near the trolls, right in the middle of the map near the river fork.
Good for you too, for sticking to your guns on that server. Pvp servers would be a lot harder to do things, especially since STV is contested.
Yell if you need help aj.
Bo
G
Guest
Guest
<font color=blue>>>> . . . killing some bears in a cave somewhere.</font color=blue>
Sounds like the Den Mother quest in Darkshore.
I'm confused, aj. In the server thread, you say you created an Alliance character on Thorium, yet elsewhere you say you're on a PvP server with a level 28. What server is that? You may have stated it somewhere, but I don't recall.
I'm not real big on PvP, but I could easily create a character wherever you are, whether Horde or Alliance. It may take me a while to get to level 29, but that's okay.
An alternative is that rather than abandon your warrior, create another character on a different server just to experiment. If you create Horde on Thorium, for example, you may be able to find the OT types. I did, and bumped into Dutch Hans almost right away at Camp Tarajo (sp). The guild "The Troll Cave" kind of gave it away. It's an RP server so the chat is of a higher quality than normal. I have a level 26, 17, and 12 character there (only one is in the above-named guild, and other than the chance meeting with DH, I've never actually seen any in the game. Go figure.)
Remember, it's about having fun. I'm sure any of the regulars of the forums here wouldn't mind helping out. I'm probably the only one here who switches servers more often than others switch their socks. Whoa, that didn't come out well.
So figure out what you want to do, let the gang know, and we'll help.
Sounds like the Den Mother quest in Darkshore.
I'm confused, aj. In the server thread, you say you created an Alliance character on Thorium, yet elsewhere you say you're on a PvP server with a level 28. What server is that? You may have stated it somewhere, but I don't recall.
I'm not real big on PvP, but I could easily create a character wherever you are, whether Horde or Alliance. It may take me a while to get to level 29, but that's okay.
An alternative is that rather than abandon your warrior, create another character on a different server just to experiment. If you create Horde on Thorium, for example, you may be able to find the OT types. I did, and bumped into Dutch Hans almost right away at Camp Tarajo (sp). The guild "The Troll Cave" kind of gave it away. It's an RP server so the chat is of a higher quality than normal. I have a level 26, 17, and 12 character there (only one is in the above-named guild, and other than the chance meeting with DH, I've never actually seen any in the game. Go figure.)
Remember, it's about having fun. I'm sure any of the regulars of the forums here wouldn't mind helping out. I'm probably the only one here who switches servers more often than others switch their socks. Whoa, that didn't come out well.
So figure out what you want to do, let the gang know, and we'll help.
G
Guest
Guest
I'm not much into pvp myself (I think I shared why I'm on Lightninghoof in the first place) so I tend to find that whenever I come across opposing players who do want to pvp, I normally come off second.
It really is tempting to pay to move to a non pvp server.
How do you get to Desolace?
aj
It really is tempting to pay to move to a non pvp server.
How do you get to Desolace?
aj
G
Guest
Guest
You can get to Desolace three ways that I know about.
1. Go through Stonetalon. If you've already got the FP at Sunrock Retreat, head out the back way (west through the Charred Vale), and along the southern edge will be the path to Desolace.
2. Head north from Feralas. Chances are that at level 29, you'll be attracting monsters from further than you can see. Probably not a good idea to go that way.
3. Swim south from the Zoram Strand. You might hit a few places where the deep water comes right up to the shore and you'll get the "fatigued" warning (like I did when I once swam from Desolace to Feathermoon), but since you have time to swim past that patch, I wouldn't worry about it.
1. Go through Stonetalon. If you've already got the FP at Sunrock Retreat, head out the back way (west through the Charred Vale), and along the southern edge will be the path to Desolace.
2. Head north from Feralas. Chances are that at level 29, you'll be attracting monsters from further than you can see. Probably not a good idea to go that way.
3. Swim south from the Zoram Strand. You might hit a few places where the deep water comes right up to the shore and you'll get the "fatigued" warning (like I did when I once swam from Desolace to Feathermoon), but since you have time to swim past that patch, I wouldn't worry about it.
G
Guest
Guest
I have the Zoram Strand flightpath so I guess it's time for a swim. I just hope I remember to pick the flightpath up once I get there.
aj
aj
B
Bo Riddler
Guest
If you start at Sunrock Retreat in the Stonetalon Mountains, you can head Southward towards Desolace.
If I remember right, you pass through a barren area filled with Flying Pixies, Basilisks and a few Fire Elementals. On the South end of the map, it'll take you over a mountain pass and into Desolace. There are a lot of quests there for your level.
Hope that helps.
Bo
If I remember right, you pass through a barren area filled with Flying Pixies, Basilisks and a few Fire Elementals. On the South end of the map, it'll take you over a mountain pass and into Desolace. There are a lot of quests there for your level.
Hope that helps.
Bo
G
Guest
Guest
I've had a look on a map site (which I can't link to here because it has all sorts of ads on the page that Stratics doesn't allow) and found where you're talking about, so I'll go have a poke around later and see what I can find there.
Thanks!
aj
Thanks!
aj
G
Guest
Guest
<font color=blue>>>If I remember right, you pass through a barren area filled with Flying Pixies, Basilisks and a few Fire Elementals.</font color=blue>
It's called the Charred Vale. There are also Wyverns and Earth Elementals. Their levels are 24-27ish, so aj wouldn't have a problem unless more than a few gang up on him.
It's called the Charred Vale. There are also Wyverns and Earth Elementals. Their levels are 24-27ish, so aj wouldn't have a problem unless more than a few gang up on him.
G
Guest
Guest
<blockquote><hr>
It's called the Charred Vale. There are also Wyverns and Earth Elementals. Their levels are 24-27ish, so aj wouldn't have a problem unless more than a few gang up on him.
[/ QUOTE ]
With these 'elementals', what's the best things to use to kill them?
I've not had a lot of experience with elementals, although I don't have much trouble killing squirrels.
aj
It's called the Charred Vale. There are also Wyverns and Earth Elementals. Their levels are 24-27ish, so aj wouldn't have a problem unless more than a few gang up on him.
[/ QUOTE ]
With these 'elementals', what's the best things to use to kill them?
I've not had a lot of experience with elementals, although I don't have much trouble killing squirrels.
aj
G
Guest
Guest
Just hit em. Hard. Fire type stuff doesn't work on the fire elementals, but the other magical attacks work (if that's what you do), and poison (nature?) doesn't work on the earthies. My warrior, paladin, and rogue just hits them. My priest does the holy fire / shadow pain thing then hits them (bubble is nice). The lock and hunter used their pets and rained in damage from a distance. My mage was a little befuddled because all the fire spells didn't work. Feral druid did okay with initial moonfire, etc., then turning into a bear. Don't have a shammy up high enough to venture into the Vale.
Occasionally (one out of 20) they'll drop elemental earth or fire. You can pick up several quests either in Sunrock (Horde) or Stonetalon Peak/Windswept Crag (Alliance) for the Vale. There's also a quest in Stormwind for the basilisks.
Occasionally (one out of 20) they'll drop elemental earth or fire. You can pick up several quests either in Sunrock (Horde) or Stonetalon Peak/Windswept Crag (Alliance) for the Vale. There's also a quest in Stormwind for the basilisks.
G
Guest
Guest
Well I swam round from Zoram Strand... and have died so many times so far it's just not true. But at least I found the windrider master (he was at the end of the pier at shadowprey village) so I can fly in and out in the future.
aj
aj
G
Guest
Guest
Hm. I'm going to have to try the swim as well. Being an explorer at heart, I've been kicking around the idea of having a character swim around both continents. It would undoubtedly take hours. I've done the Desolace to Feathermoon swim once (before I learned how safe the path was). I've done the Westfall to Booty Bay numerous times because, well, the paths are not safe in STV. I've even swum to the coast of Redridge. A short swim from the Swamp of Sorrows, but I didn't even know there was a coast of Redridge (though it shows on the map).
G
Guest
Guest
I did the swim just fine... I actually meant I died a lot when I got there. Highly frustrating, but I did at least hit level 30 last night.
I'm beginning to think that I need some new weapons or something; my armour/whateveryoucallit is 1905... is that low?
aj
I'm beginning to think that I need some new weapons or something; my armour/whateveryoucallit is 1905... is that low?
aj
B
Bo Riddler
Guest
If you wouldn't mind, toss us your characters exact name so we can peek.
Wow has a new feature on their website called the Armory. We can actually pull up your character, and look at all of your gear, stats and mods.
So whats yer name, mate?
Bo
Wow has a new feature on their website called the Armory. We can actually pull up your character, and look at all of your gear, stats and mods.
So whats yer name, mate?
Bo
G
Guest
Guest
I am Manzana, on the Lightninghoof server.
Please don't laugh too much at me
aj
Please don't laugh too much at me
aj
G
Guest
Guest
<font color=blue>>>Wow has a new feature on their website called the Armory.</font color=blue>
Really? I'll have to check it out.
---later---
Wow, that's cool.
I checked out Manzana and it doesn't seem too out of line from what I had at that level. I've got much better at 42, but only because I have a fairly decent blacksmith on that server that made most of the gear, and at 40 you start wearing plate, which gives a big jump to your armor.
Really? I'll have to check it out.
---later---
Wow, that's cool.
I checked out Manzana and it doesn't seem too out of line from what I had at that level. I've got much better at 42, but only because I have a fairly decent blacksmith on that server that made most of the gear, and at 40 you start wearing plate, which gives a big jump to your armor.
I
imported_Dellamorte
Guest
<blockquote><hr>
Here is a thought, argue this.
I had a warrior and made it to 33rd level before I deleted him. I have a Rogue, I have taken her so far to 62nd level. Is it me or are Rogues by far a better fighter? I have my Rogue specced almost all Assassination and I don't even bother with stealth. I charge in with the best of them and do my fair share of damage.
My gear is no where near Epic but I am still around a 19% crit rating so I see some big numbers, even at just 62nd level. So what is the problem with Warriors?
God, they just seem like they were designed wrong. From top to bottom they are clunky and clanky. Specifics? Ok, the idea of rage is a good one, but while all the water drinking mana hounds are sipping Mage made water, a Warriors Rage is falling faster than my stock value in Enron.
How about a design build where the Warrior has a choice of 3 combat styles, similar to their stances but each combat style comes with more interactive combat moves. Using this theory, lets say we have a Warrior with Spear/Polearm skills. Under this style, he has a certain number of 'moves' he is able to use before he needs to rest or regroup. One move being 'Trip,' thats one move. Then 'death blow,' where the fighter attempts to finish off the fallen foe.
Yes, there would be some mechanical changes but one thing I have found with fans of Warriors, they are wanting more out of the combat sequence. Instead of click, click, click, how about letting them have some choices of moves, depending on several things. One being, if your first 'Trip' does knock them down, then they'd choose 'Death Blow' but if the target didn't fall, they could change tactics and go for 'Knee Kick.'
If I can reference a wonderful series of books, I would use Robert Jordan's "Wheel of Time" fighter mentality. From, "The Crane Dances on the Water," to "The Silent Snake," each style I assume is used in different situations.
Only my thoughts, but from my point of view, I found warriors blah, blah blah. They always are waiting on rage. Maybe I specced wrong but I wasn't impressed.
*Flame away*
Bo
[/ QUOTE ]
When comparing rogues to warriors.. ugh.. A rogue is a DPS class... they will, in most cases, destroy warrior DPS. The only time they won't is if the rogues sucks, or the warrior is a well geared Fury warrior. Fury warriors do scary damage. The #1 reason why rogues suck as tanks? They are delicate. No way can one stand a beating like a warrior.. especially a prot warrior. If you are getting aggro pulled from you by a rogue (or any class really) then 2 things are possibly happening.. 1 you are not playing the class right and 2 the other class is not managing their aggro correctly.
As a warrior tanking, you want to try to be in defensive stance if possible... warriors are fluid enough to change it on the fly depending on the situation. Tanks aren't meant to do lots of damage. They are to gen a lot of threat. That means sundering your target 5 times and keeping him sundered. That means using revenge everytime it procs. Taunting and using shield wall as your Oh Crap! button. These attacks don't do lots of damage but they gen a ton of threat. This is assuming you are tanking. If you are out soloing and bashing stuff, yeah its pain waiting on rage, but be sure you are rending and heroic striking every chance you get. Hamstring mobs that run away. Use cleave and retaliation against mutlible mobs.
On the opposite side.. the DPS classes that are dealing the dps, need to be aware that over aggressive spamming of their attacks will pull aggro off you regardless of how good you are. If they can't pace themselves and are pulling mobs off of you then let them die and then use taunt to pull the mob back to you. Then explain to them why its important to pace themselves.
A good warrior is worth his/her weight in gold. One who knows when to switch stances, knows how to gen the max amount of aggro, can deal frighten damage when needed, and above all.. knows his/her role in a group. Tanking, like healing, is an artform and not everyone will be good at it or like it.
My personal biggest issue with warriors is the fact that they are even more gear dependant than your average class. Its real important to upgrade whenever you can. Rage normalization is the other issue, but the warriors recently got buffed in that field so it isnt as bad as it was before.
Here is a thought, argue this.
I had a warrior and made it to 33rd level before I deleted him. I have a Rogue, I have taken her so far to 62nd level. Is it me or are Rogues by far a better fighter? I have my Rogue specced almost all Assassination and I don't even bother with stealth. I charge in with the best of them and do my fair share of damage.
My gear is no where near Epic but I am still around a 19% crit rating so I see some big numbers, even at just 62nd level. So what is the problem with Warriors?
God, they just seem like they were designed wrong. From top to bottom they are clunky and clanky. Specifics? Ok, the idea of rage is a good one, but while all the water drinking mana hounds are sipping Mage made water, a Warriors Rage is falling faster than my stock value in Enron.
How about a design build where the Warrior has a choice of 3 combat styles, similar to their stances but each combat style comes with more interactive combat moves. Using this theory, lets say we have a Warrior with Spear/Polearm skills. Under this style, he has a certain number of 'moves' he is able to use before he needs to rest or regroup. One move being 'Trip,' thats one move. Then 'death blow,' where the fighter attempts to finish off the fallen foe.
Yes, there would be some mechanical changes but one thing I have found with fans of Warriors, they are wanting more out of the combat sequence. Instead of click, click, click, how about letting them have some choices of moves, depending on several things. One being, if your first 'Trip' does knock them down, then they'd choose 'Death Blow' but if the target didn't fall, they could change tactics and go for 'Knee Kick.'
If I can reference a wonderful series of books, I would use Robert Jordan's "Wheel of Time" fighter mentality. From, "The Crane Dances on the Water," to "The Silent Snake," each style I assume is used in different situations.
Only my thoughts, but from my point of view, I found warriors blah, blah blah. They always are waiting on rage. Maybe I specced wrong but I wasn't impressed.
*Flame away*
Bo
[/ QUOTE ]
When comparing rogues to warriors.. ugh.. A rogue is a DPS class... they will, in most cases, destroy warrior DPS. The only time they won't is if the rogues sucks, or the warrior is a well geared Fury warrior. Fury warriors do scary damage. The #1 reason why rogues suck as tanks? They are delicate. No way can one stand a beating like a warrior.. especially a prot warrior. If you are getting aggro pulled from you by a rogue (or any class really) then 2 things are possibly happening.. 1 you are not playing the class right and 2 the other class is not managing their aggro correctly.
As a warrior tanking, you want to try to be in defensive stance if possible... warriors are fluid enough to change it on the fly depending on the situation. Tanks aren't meant to do lots of damage. They are to gen a lot of threat. That means sundering your target 5 times and keeping him sundered. That means using revenge everytime it procs. Taunting and using shield wall as your Oh Crap! button. These attacks don't do lots of damage but they gen a ton of threat. This is assuming you are tanking. If you are out soloing and bashing stuff, yeah its pain waiting on rage, but be sure you are rending and heroic striking every chance you get. Hamstring mobs that run away. Use cleave and retaliation against mutlible mobs.
On the opposite side.. the DPS classes that are dealing the dps, need to be aware that over aggressive spamming of their attacks will pull aggro off you regardless of how good you are. If they can't pace themselves and are pulling mobs off of you then let them die and then use taunt to pull the mob back to you. Then explain to them why its important to pace themselves.
A good warrior is worth his/her weight in gold. One who knows when to switch stances, knows how to gen the max amount of aggro, can deal frighten damage when needed, and above all.. knows his/her role in a group. Tanking, like healing, is an artform and not everyone will be good at it or like it.
My personal biggest issue with warriors is the fact that they are even more gear dependant than your average class. Its real important to upgrade whenever you can. Rage normalization is the other issue, but the warriors recently got buffed in that field so it isnt as bad as it was before.
G
Guest
Guest
I tried a prot specced warrior (up to 42) in defensive stance. I kept getting my behind handed back to me. I respecced this weekend to arms, and what a difference. I can now take on two at or above my level and live. Three is still a problem.
The big difference is that rage now shoots up quickly and decays slowly. When you have a lot of rage to play with, you can do a lot. The warrior is actually fun to play now.
The big difference is that rage now shoots up quickly and decays slowly. When you have a lot of rage to play with, you can do a lot. The warrior is actually fun to play now.
I
imported_Kalibek
Guest
When you are leveling, you are held back by your gear. But when you hit 70 and start getting the crafted epics or epic drops, you will see yourself scale so quickly it's insane. When I hit 70 I had 1300 ap, 12% hit, and 19% crit. Nowadays i switched to 2h ms/flurry and my crit can reach as high as 50% and my ap can spike to 4000.
My only problem is spending rage fast enough
As for the tanking, you don't taunt unless you lose aggro. You don't even need to start with taunt unless your attacks are parried/dodged/miss. Primarily taunt is used to equalize your threat with the highest current threat. After you have taunted, you have 3 seconds to generate 10% of that persons threat level, or you will lose aggro.
My only problem is spending rage fast enough
As for the tanking, you don't taunt unless you lose aggro. You don't even need to start with taunt unless your attacks are parried/dodged/miss. Primarily taunt is used to equalize your threat with the highest current threat. After you have taunted, you have 3 seconds to generate 10% of that persons threat level, or you will lose aggro.