What is going on with housing?

[Uriah Heep]

Oh, bad idea...

You REALLY don't want to turn me loose with an unlimited bank... *thinks about all the junk I could collect*

 

[Goldberg-Chessy]

I love it.
Take a chance playing account management games and lose your house.
Is there any scenario where anyone feels sorry for someone trying to work the system? Nopers.
I just wish I was there to loot your crap lol.
Boohoo that the devs didn't give you notice that working the system may not be a good thing anymore

 

[DreadLord Lestat]

Many people do the 90 day dance and I am sure it brings in quite a bit of cash for UO. I don't see the harm in it since storage space is so limited, especially when bank checks take up so much room. Here are some other ways we can alienate paying subscribers who are "exploiting the system"

1. Lets remove the ability for Vendors to hold billions of gold and thousands of BODS because we all know that vendors weren't meant to be banks or storage. That is abusing the system as well so lets remove that.
2. Lets also get rid of the classic client since it is old and outdated, we can alienate even more paying subscribers that way. Without the classic client, there would be no more scripting and that is an abuse of the system.
3. Lets ruin it for people who are having EA billing issues. It would be interesting to see what would happen if they removed the 90 day wait and see how many accounts stop getting paid for. It would also affect a good amount of people whose credit cards on file expire and they lose everything sue to their house falling in 5 days. Most of them would be done for good. I am sure that somehow they are exploiting the system as well.

Lets face it, there are a ton of ways that exploit the system but a 90 day house shuffle is not a game altering one. It brings in extra money that helps keep UO afloat. The only shard that it might affect is Atlantic since it is the most populated. We should be worrying about getting bugs fixed and attracting new players, not worrying about people who want more storage but cannot afford to pay for it on a monthly basis. Not everyone can afford to keep 10+ accounts open, and if you can, kudos to you!

 

[BrianFreud]

I'd also mention that, in Japan, until *very* recently, they had a $3 1 week game time option, which was massively (ab)used for refreshing houses.

 

[Goldberg-Chessy]

Many people do the 90 day dance and I am sure it brings in quite a bit of cash for UO. I don't see the harm in it since storage space is so limited, especially when bank checks take up so much room. Here are some other ways we can alienate paying subscribers who are "exploiting the system"

1. Lets remove the ability for Vendors to hold billions of gold and thousands of BODS because we all know that vendors weren't meant to be banks or storage. That is abusing the system as well so lets remove that.
2. Lets also get rid of the classic client since it is old and outdated, we can alienate even more paying subscribers that way. Without the classic client, there would be no more scripting and that is an abuse of the system.
3. Lets ruin it for people who are having EA billing issues. It would be interesting to see what would happen if they removed the 90 day wait and see how many accounts stop getting paid for. It would also affect a good amount of people whose credit cards on file expire and they lose everything sue to their house falling in 5 days. Most of them would be done for good. I am sure that somehow they are exploiting the system as well.

Lets face it, there are a ton of ways that exploit the system but a 90 day house shuffle is not a game altering one. It brings in extra money that helps keep UO afloat. The only shard that it might affect is Atlantic since it is the most populated. We should be worrying about getting bugs fixed and attracting new players, not worrying about people who want more storage but cannot afford to pay for it on a monthly basis. Not everyone can afford to keep 10+ accounts open, and if you can, kudos to you!

The 90 day house exploit (shuffle is a cute political term that I would not use) is wrong for 2 very obvious reasons:
1) It is an exploit no matter how you slice it. Saying that it is ok because there are other exploits is just plain ridiculous. I guess nobody ever explained to you that 2 wrongs don't make a right.

2) On a busier shard the 90 day housing exploit causes other players to lose out on choice housing spots.
Since many, many people primarily play the game because of housing I would call that the definition of game altering.

 

[Uriah Heep]

I don't really understand how any of you can call it an exploit, since it was intentionally (yes intentionally) programmed into the system by the devs. If the devs don't like it, and it's a problem then they should turn it backc to 30 days, period, no exception. But in the end it will cost them money. I imagine there are a lot of people who use the system, and if the 90 day "shuffle" was to go away, so would all but one or two of their accounts. Personally, I won't pay the account evry month just for storage. 4 times a year, yeah. So at least they are getting something from us, which adds up to a lot more than $0.00.

Not a bug, not an exploit. Intentional programming. Use it, play it, it's there for you.

 

[DreadLord Lestat]

The 90 day house exploit (shuffle is a cute political term that I would not use) is wrong for 2 very obvious reasons:
1) It is an exploit no matter how you slice it. Saying that it is ok because there are other exploits is just plain ridiculous. I guess nobody ever explained to you that 2 wrongs don't make a right.

2) On a busier shard the 90 day housing exploit causes other players to lose out on choice housing spots.
Since many, many people primarily play the game because of housing I would call that the definition of game altering.

1. It is not an exploit, it is a game mechanic if you are going to compare it to IDOC'ers making money. Many IDOC'ers are scripters, especially house placers so lets make it easy for them right? OMG it is messing with scripters cash flow OH NO! The only shard that it affects is Atlantic because that is the only shard that is even close to max capacity in housing.

2. It was put into play due to something big that happened where people could not easily get online to renew subscriptions that ran out. I am sure that they saw an increase of subscriptions after a while when people started opening accounts to place houses for extra storage and play the 90 day shuffle.

I love it.
Take a chance playing account management games and lose your house.
Is there any scenario where anyone feels sorry for someone trying to work the system? Nopers.
I just wish I was there to loot your crap lol.
Boohoo that the devs didn't give you notice that working the system may not be a good thing anymore

Boohoo, that the scritpers don't have as many IDOCs on Atlantic to exploit and they can't make as much money as they want.

 

[Gidge]

Oh, bad idea...

You REALLY don't want to turn me loose with an unlimited bank... *thinks about all the junk I could collect*

Quoted you just so I can like again. Like!

 

[Goldberg-Chessy]

1. It is not an exploit, it is a game mechanic if you are going to compare it to IDOC'ers making money. Many IDOC'ers are scripters, especially house placers so lets make it easy for them right? OMG it is messing with scripters cash flow OH NO! The only shard that it affects is Atlantic because that is the only shard that is even close to max capacity in housing.

2. It was put into play due to something big that happened where people could not easily get online to renew subscriptions that ran out. I am sure that they saw an increase of subscriptions after a while when people started opening accounts to place houses for extra storage and play the 90 day shuffle.



Boohoo, that the scritpers don't have as many IDOCs on Atlantic to exploit and they can't make as much money as they want.

It is absolutely an exploit.

I am not sure but I believe it was put into place to help people that were having billing/account issues.
People having billing/account issues do not take all the time and effort to get them corrected only to take a chance and shut them down again every 3 months or so to take advantage of cheap housing. They are not the ones abusing it.
Trying to compare people with legit account issues to the phlegmwads that abuse the system to drop houses all over the place at 1/3 the normal cost is just plain reedickulous.

What is that word again for when someone takes advantage of something put into place to try and help someone else out?
Ohh ya, exploit

 

[zamot]

It is absolutely an exploit.

I am not sure but I believe it was put into place to help people that were having billing/account issues.
People having billing/account issues do not take all the time and effort to get them corrected only to take a chance and shut them down again every 3 months or so to take advantage of cheap housing. They are not the ones abusing it.
Trying to compare people with legit account issues to the phlegmwads that abuse the system to drop houses all over the place at 1/3 the normal cost is just plain reedickulous.

What is that word again for when someone takes advantage of something put into place to try and help someone else out?
Ohh ya, exploit

It was put in when the iraq war started for service people. they just never stopped it. Billing issues are what is causing the 90 day thing not to work now.
If you are using a system to your advantage is it really abusing a system?
Someone else paying every 90 days is just keeping the cost of the game down for the rest of us that play more. I know housing is not an issue on my shard(catskills). In fact most of Malas is empty now. So what is your issue with this?

 

[DreadLord Lestat]

It is absolutely an exploit.

I am not sure but I believe it was put into place to help people that were having billing/account issues.
People having billing/account issues do not take all the time and effort to get them corrected only to take a chance and shut them down again every 3 months or so to take advantage of cheap housing. They are not the ones abusing it.
Trying to compare people with legit account issues to the phlegmwads that abuse the system to drop houses all over the place at 1/3 the normal cost is just plain reedickulous.

What is that word again for when someone takes advantage of something put into place to try and help someone else out?
Ohh ya, exploit

What is that you are saying? I can't figure it out with all the whining that you are doing over this.

Exploits are bannable, show me where Broadsword or EA says that renewing your account every 90 days to avoid losing a house is an exploit or bannable. Have there been mass bannings? I would assume that billing records would be very easy to review to spot a payment every 3 months. Oh thats right, its not an exploit.

Oh yeah, I know your reputation and why it may bother you so much. Funny that you would whine about exploits....

 

[FrejaSP]

brianfreud2, your house trouble do more sound like someone got access to your accounts and took down your houses to get your stuff.
Changes password on Origin and on each of your accounts. Also changes password for your email.

 

[Goldberg-Chessy]

It was put in when the iraq war started for service people. they just never stopped it. Billing issues are what is causing the 90 day thing not to work now.
If you are using a system to your advantage is it really abusing a system?
Someone else paying every 90 days is just keeping the cost of the game down for the rest of us that play more. I know housing is not an issue on my shard(catskills). In fact most of Malas is empty now. So what is your issue with this?

Why is it so hard for most people posting on this board to understand that game mechanics are designed for the big picture?
Catskills is a mostly empty dead shard. So what? Why would you think that your point has even an iota of validity based upon you playing there?
There are other shards darling and a couple of them have very limited housing spots so one toolbox abusing the system for almost no other reason then to drop a ton of houses is an issue.
Or does the OP actively play all 14 accounts he mentioned?
I personally don't care how many accounts he plays or doesn't play. But I do care about missing out on prime housing spots because I don't want to pay more cash and abuse the system.

So please tell me how me having to pay for more accounts to get a prime housing spot because one guy has 14 is keeping the cost of the game down for me again?
Or do you honestly believe that EA isn't raising sub fees because of the extra cash they are making from these abusers lol?

On a side note I would like to say that I think anyone who does live on a dead shard for the main purpose of having a nice big home is pathetic

 

[Goldberg-Chessy]

What is that you are saying? I can't figure it out with all the whining that you are doing over this.

Exploits are bannable, show me where Broadsword or EA says that renewing your account every 90 days to avoid losing a house is an exploit or bannable. Have there been mass bannings? I would assume that billing records would be very easy to review to spot a payment every 3 months. Oh thats right, its not an exploit.

Oh yeah, I know your reputation and why it may bother you so much. Funny that you would whine about exploits....

??

Why is it funny that I should whine about exploits?

What is the reputation that you are referring to and why are you so gutless and sneaky that you don't come out and actually say what you mean?

Is this what we can expect from forum mods now? They get personally involved in discussions and try to start bs rumors...

Please elaborate on my reputation that you referred to with some facts or maybe learn to be an adult?

 

[Lord Gareth]

If you are doing the 89 day refresh and worried that your house will go Idoc without warning here is a way to protect your items for at least 1 month maybe more.

1. Rent 2 – 3 vendors to your main account (the account that is ALWAYS open)
2. Set the Rental Length to 1 month
3. Set the Price Per Rental to 0
4. Renew On Expiration
Landlord: Yes
Renter: Yes
5. Pay the vendor 109,500 gold so their charge per day is paid up for 5 years
6. Co-own your main account to the house
7. Lockdown, Secure and Place ALL Items/Deeds with your main account (DO NOT USE THE HOUSE OWNER ACCOUNT AT ALL FOR THIS)

If the Account closes and you are unaware the house is in decay before it falls it will go into a “Owned By OSI” period since vendors are rented to someone (aka your main account) after the house goes “Owned By OSI” wait until the next server maintenance cycle

8. Once the house is “Owned By OSI” wait until the server goes down and comes back up. Once this happens the Co-Owner will be allowed to release ANYTHING they Locked Down, Secured or Placed in the house.
9. Log onto your main account and release all Lockdowns, Secures and Re-deed all items (You can’t save the house but you can save your stuff)

 

[Piotr]

I found an old quote, apparently from a HoC back in 2006, in a thread on uoforums.com.


"Player: I can't imagine what other thing this would mean than they are scraping for coin.

Draconi: Ah, and here I was sure you had a stronger imagination than that!

At least it beats the original 10 days we used to have. It was set to 90 days after all the confusion with the original IDOC fixes.

MrTact: It's not like the old days where you had to physically login to refresh your house. This means, 30 days *after you stop paying us* your house goes away.

The main reason why we're doing this? Well, back in the day, when we originally changed to 90 days, I remember someone . . . let's see, who would that have been . . . oh yeah, ME . . . complaining internally that people would use this to "kite" and only keep their account active 1 month out of 3 to hold houses. Well, guess what's happening?

Essentially, we're sick of seeing house signs with ICQ numbers on them. If you want to be a house broker, fine, but now you're going to have to keep your account up to date."

 

[Lord Gareth]

I found an old quote, apparently from a HoC back in 2006, in a thread on uoforums.com.

MrTact: It's not like the old days where you had to physically login to refresh your house. This means, 30 days *after you stop paying us* your house goes away.

And MrTact goes away for that type of thinking

 

[Uriah Heep]

oh well, right wrong or indifferent...I don't hack code, I don't script. But I will play within the coding they do. If that coding allows me to get a house free for 9 months of the year, cool. If that coding lets me do anything yall are always calling a exploit, and they wrote that cod, then I will play it.

I haven't heard anyone complaing about people doing this except for a few players here on the board. And tbh, if it IS a problem, then EAMYTHICBROADSWORDWHATEVERTHEYCALLTHEMSELVESTODAY needs to fix it. Otherwise, game on!

 

[DreadLord Lestat]

??

Why is it funny that I should whine about exploits?

What is the reputation that you are referring to and why are you so gutless and sneaky that you don't come out and actually say what you mean?

Is this what we can expect from forum mods now? They get personally involved in discussions and try to start bs rumors...

Please elaborate on my reputation that you referred to with some facts or maybe learn to be an adult?

I cannot come out and explain because you would then report me for personal attacks, I play on Chessy and I knew you when you were there. You and I know exactly what I am talking about and that is sufficient. ICQ 126630075 if you want to actually discuss it.

Amazing that you attack ANYONE that doesn't agree with you. You resort to calling people pathetic because they want to play on a slower shard. If I played on Catskills and there was a spot open for a castle, of coarse I would place it. I play on Chessy which is a nice medium. I do not want to play on Atlantic because it is too crowded for me. If I want to go to a dungeon and not have to worry about people being there, then it is my choice. If I want to play on a shard where I can place a house instead of having to buy a house from someone else then that is my choice as well. It does not make me or anyone that plays on slow shards like Cats pathetic. They went to one house per account because housing had gotten crazy because people were having to pay millions for small houses. Sounds a lot like Atlantic now. I can place a house in Tram, Fel, Malas, Tokuno, and Ter-Mur for the actual cost on Chessy now. I do not have to pay millions for one. Yeah that makes me pathetic....

Children whine, keep whining while telling me to learn to be an adult. I am not a MOD in UHall so being a MOD has nothing to do with it. I have not called you names, I have not said anything specific that tells anyone anything so I am not breaking any rules. I have not attacked you. I simply referred to knowing you and your reputation which is not an attack but public record.

And now lets go back to the main topic instead of derailing the post with your whining. How does the 90 day refresh hurt you? Honestly? It doesn't. OMG THERE ARE NOT ENOUGH IDOCS FOR ME TO MAKE MONEY OFF OF!!!!!! NOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!

 

[THP]

he/shes good at that...let him/her whine/troll away... they wont stop ever....as for chessy..yes it one of the busier shards but hell theres quite a few large keep spots free for placement so i doubt owning a large home is a problem on chessy.....just saying

 

[Flagg]

2 weeks from account going inactive to house gone, with no IDOC period at all, isn't a change in the rules. To me, that's flat out a bug and wrong.

If intentional, this is so ****ing ruthless and disgusting from Devs.

It appears Broadsword has seen it fit to start going after secondary accounts of everybody. They want full time subs from every single home and castle out there. If this was a policy decided at late 90's, we'd speak of a total it-is-what-it is by now. It'd be part of how game has always worked. To change something this significant NOW is plain insulting and quite unreasonable.People who have had, say, five houses to their names for 10 years will suddenly have to pay like, what, 60% more money to keep having THE SAME EXPERIENCE they've had for 12 years.

There is great deal of more or less active subscribers who don't really play the game anymore. They only occasionally re-sub/log in to keep their homes and castles. Then maybe, just maybe, some summer or another UO fly bites them once more and they get back to being an active player. Can you imagine how many half-inactive vets will lose their belongings cause of this? Broadsword seems to have decided to see if they can tear subs on monthly basis from these people.


No MMO that I know of has as high monthly sub fee as UO. Requiring people who own multiple accounts to keep them all " full price" and active monthly is plain insulting. I wonder how many bend over and accept this. Plenty enough, in calculations of Broadsword at least.

I responded by deciding I'd never have more than 1 account ever again. It is enough for me anyways. One house with true value to/in it is all I've usually had active for years now. So for me, this was very easy and small decision to make. I don't know how I'd feel about this if I were among people who've grown used to having, say, five houses at their disposal.

Such people have invested thousands, maybe even tens of thousands of cash on UO over the years. And in comes Broadword, all " hey, ah, we need a bit more of your money. It'll now take like 60% more cash if you wish to keep having the same experience you've had for last 12 years!" It is ********. This in era where everybody could play pretty awesome MMOs for free. In game that has highest sub fee/month out of all Western MMos as it is. In game that is barely in live development. In a game with zero functional clients. Utter BS.

I seriously wonder if this works for them like they predicted. Honestly, I hope it doesn't.

 

[Goldberg-Chessy]

"MrTact:
It's not like the old days where you had to physically login to refresh your house. This means, 30 days *after you stop paying us* your house goes away.

The main reason why we're doing this? Well, back in the day, when we originally changed to 90 days, I remember someone . . . let's see, who would that have been . . . oh yeah, ME . . . complaining internally that people would use this to "kite" and only keep their account active 1 month out of 3 to hold houses. Well, guess what's happening?

Essentially, we're sick of seeing house signs with ICQ numbers on them. If you want to be a house broker, fine, but now you're going to have to keep your account up to date"

I love it!
There is your reason why it was first changed way back and there is the only official word from EA on the subject in this thread regardless of when it was spoken.
Last time I checked being accused of, or being referred to as a kiter was not too favorable.

Thank you Piotr for taking the time to help clear things up a bit

Biased people like Lestat still will not be able to comprehend Tact's last sentence about EA wanting players to keep accounts up to date but you can only lead a slow horse to water...

I have spent too much time in this thread stating how much I dislike house brokers and account kiters and now there is an official statement from Tact with him stating exactly the same thing as me.

 

[Uriah Heep]

I liked Mr Tact. But he is long long gone. And his statement, like yours, is just that a "statement". Not policy, had he had the authority to make it so I'm sure it would be so.

Now I wanna go put my icq number on all my houses LOL

 

[Goldberg-Chessy]

I liked Mr Tact. But he is long long gone. And his statement, like yours, is just that a "statement". Not policy, had he had the authority to make it so I'm sure it would be so.

Now I wanna go put my icq number on all my houses LOL

I hear you and I am quite content that myself and Mr Tact shared the exact same opinion that I have been expressing here.

I can now leave this cesspool of a thread starting by a kiter whining that his kiting may have cost him a house or 14.
Especially knowing that special people like Lestat will never be able to post anything in this thread that was said by someone of Tact's stature in EA to the contrary.

 

[DreadLord Lestat]

Essentially, we're sick of seeing house signs with ICQ numbers on them. If you want to be a house broker, fine, but now you're going to have to keep your account up to date"

He never said it was exploiting and he said he did not like house brokers that made money off of them. People that are playing the 90 day shuffle aren't making money, they are paying money. They aren't selling them, they are using them for storage. EA made this an item based game and made tons of items but give very limited storage. They brought this on themselves and they are making money off of it so they have not ended it. If they thought it was an exploit, then it would have been gone a long time ago.

A quote from an unofficial source from over 8 years ago is hardly official.

Quote from a random and unknown HOC from 2006 quoted by someone who may or may not have been there:

Mr. Tact: Goldberg of Chessy is my biggest fanboi

Draconi: Yeah he is, he is your cheerleader of unofficial old and outdated quotes

 

[DreadLord Lestat]

I can now leave this cesspool of a thread starting by a kiter whining that his kiting may have cost him a house or 14.
Especially knowing that special people like Lestat will never be able to post anything in this thread that was said by someone of Tact's stature in EA to the contrary.

Make up your mind....is it kiting or exploiting.

Mr Tact has no stature in EA as he does not work there and the quote was not from UO.COM and it was not quoted from any post. If that was EA's stance then it would have stayed 30 days. That post was years after they had changed it to 90 days for deploying soldiers. It was 30 days for a very short period of time, I would imaging they saw a huge drop off in money when the people doing the 90 day shuffle stopped paying all together for those houses and let them drop. Money speaks louder than Mr.Tact's possible statement.

 

[Aran]

If intentional, this is so ******* ruthless and disgusting from Devs.

It appears Broadsword has seen it fit to start going after secondary accounts of everybody. They want full time subs from every single home and castle out there. If this was a policy decided at late 90's, we'd speak of a total it-is-what-it is by now. It'd be part of how game has always worked. To change something this significant NOW is plain insulting and quite unreasonable.People who have had, say, five houses to their names for 10 years will suddenly have to pay like, what, 60% more money to keep having THE SAME EXPERIENCE they've had for 12 years.

You must be new. It used to be houses didn't even stay just because your account was open, they had to be refreshed every few days or they'd fall even with an open account.

I've had three houses 'to my name' for 10 years, and without cheating EA out of money most of the year.

 

[Flagg]

You must be new. It used to be houses didn't even stay just because your account was open, they had to be refreshed every few days or they'd fall even with an open account.

I've had three houses 'to my name' for 10 years, and without cheating EA out of money most of the year.

You speak of housing as it was in late 90's. Features UO had around dawn of Internet culture isn't exactly a shining definition of "norm".

Cheating money out of EA? Good lord.. This is bit like figuring store discounts for loyal customers are a scam.

The 1 month out of 3 was a bone EA threw to people using multiple accounts. I recon they figured it fair. It is perfectly o.k to consider it pretty unreasonable to have to pay, say, thousand bucks a year for four or 5 houses in UO.

My understanding is that housing has operated under more or less same rules for well over 10 years now. ( 2.5-3 months of inactivity-> start keeping an eye out. House goes to decay-> You have 4-5 days to re-sub. It was the status quo. It was something for many to design their payment cycles and UO housing. Every single secondary UO account just got like 60% more expensive to many people. To do so is draconian, evul and unfair. Of course,Broadsword has every right to do so. It still is ugly, ruthless and low of them.

Problem here is breaking the norm in such drastic way. There are people who suddenly have to pay, say, 500 bucks a year more in order to maintain their housing in way they have for 10 years or so. That is the problem.

 

[Flagg]

We could keep debating about whether or not it is 10000% fine to keep paying an international mega corporation a thousand bux a year for two decades old MMO. We could also talk about what this change actually does. If we divide players by their approach to housing and additional accounts, I can think of four groups.


* Group 1
I use myself as an example. I play UO in pretty casual fashion atm. I have for several years. One account is always open. Grand total of three accounts have been semi-active. Sometimes, nice plot opens up and I decide "hmmmz, maybe I try decoing this for fun. Who knows, maybe I end up with something I consider a keeper! Or maybe I finally CBA reopening my store.." This thought process usually ends up in me reactivating some secondary or even tertiary account for a couple of months. Knowing I'd have to keep paying full price of these accounts every single month just to have few extra plots I may or may not deco ensures I'll never even consider doing this again. Never going to take a 2nd house again. Never going to open a second account again. Now, doing so for housing only suddenly sounds like waste of money that goes beyond questions like " can I afford this?" I'm sure my situation isn't some unique snowflake type of a thing; I bet plenty of people have went through similar throught process.

* Group 2
You have people who have had 5 accounts open 12 months a year for 12 years or something. They don't care, they pay up. If EA increased sub fee to 30 bux/month of single account many of them wouldn't close a single account. They have never really stopped playing the game, they have like 25 characters they play on regular basis so it isn't even about houses anyway. Why not pay for each acc each month?

* Group 3
People have so much value(emotional or otherwise) invested in two or three houses that they won't even consider closing these acconts, ever. They'll pay up. No matter how inactive the are in UO. No matter how much they mislike doing so.

* Group 4
Then you have people who are very inactive for, say, 10 months a year and come back playing for 2 months now and again. These people are so inactive they don't even think of UO every single month. Very easy to overlook monthly sub here and there for month or 2 for whatever reason among them. Specially since it has always been 2 months++ til it starts mattering, right? Imagine how they feel, when they realize their house has stopped behaving like it has for ages, and instead has gone up in smoke? Great way to help people grow completely estranged to UO. This is how you make people let UO go for good.
Emil Example has been casual UO player for 5 years now. Most of his friends are long gone. He enjoys logging bi-monthly, going through his stuff, doing occasional decoing and collecting them snowglobes. Usually he plays in more hardcore fashion through the summer months. He pays sub 7 months out of 12.
He logs in and notices everything he still cares about UO has gone up in smoke due to some completely arbitary ninja change. Emil has nothing left he'd care about. He quits. Instead of loyally subbing for, say, 7 months a year, he switches to 0 months a year.

I have no idea if this change results in EA making even more money off us. Maybe groups 2&3 bring in more cash than groups 1&4.
I am 100% sure this change will result in UO having even less players. Great deal of casually active summer heroes will be gone for good.

 

[BrianFreud]

I'd point out, this thread was dead until recently, when someone brought it back to life. As far as I know, any housing changes that made them fall faster than 90 days have been reverted, though many folks, myself included, got burnt by it while it was going on.

I can't find the transcript, but it was a recent dev Q&A - maybe Yamato? - where Mesanna said she wasn't going to bring back the 1 week game times, specifically stating that it wasn't fair for those to be used to get 7 + 90 days time on a house. If they want to change the system and give less than 90 days, for any of the longer (1, 3, 6 month) game times, they have that option. All I was saying is that if they plan to do so, it should VERY clearly be stated. Until that point, however, it's a system that has clearly been stated and in place for nearly a decade now. Some offhand comment by a former dev in a 9 year old HOC quote is worth pretty much nothing, imho.

 

[The Zog historian]

You must be new. It used to be houses didn't even stay just because your account was open, they had to be refreshed every few days or they'd fall even with an open account.

I've had three houses 'to my name' for 10 years, and without cheating EA out of money most of the year.

Remember the flip side, though, that there was no concept of house ownership until early 1999, and they could be refreshed by any character who had a key. There were so many unused houses because of all the stolen/looted keys. Then when ownership was introduced, we still had to refresh at least once every 11 days. Was it Malas when automatic refresh for single houses was first implemented?

 

[Piotr]

Was it Malas when automatic refresh for single houses was first implemented?

It was actually one of the few good things we got from the dreadful Publish 16 (6 months before AoS).

 

[BrianFreud]

It was actually one of the few good things we got from the dreadful Publish 16 (6 months before AoS).

Yes and no... for the year between 9/11 and Pub 16, house decay had been turned off, for reasons relating to 9/11.

 

[The Craftsman]

An interesting thread. UO is broken. Its code is so archaic and held together in parts by duck tape and chewing gum that when changes are made the programmers are never certain what the knock on effects would be. The fact that its a subscription game beggars belief. For a monthly fee the level of service that is provided is absolutely appalling. The game is past the point where it can ever be repaired ... its too much of a mess code wise.

Housing is probably the most unique and best thing UO has going for it but conversely is the root of many of its problems. Any 'normal' game with an ever decreasing player base would have merged shards by now and had fewer shards with active populations. Not UO. Housing makes this imposssible. Any 'normal' game would not have an issue with kiting and 'using' the 90 day trick. Not UO. Housing causes this. Any 'normal' game has paying players who actually play. Not UO. There are people who pay but dont play simply because they cannot bear the thought of giving up or losing a house. Any 'normal' game does not have players with 14+ accounts. No one needs or uses 100+ character slots. Housing causes this.

UO has far less active players than paying accounts. Housing keeps UO at a level where it makes a profit and they dont pull the plug. Its a sad indictment on the players of UO that they are so addicted to their pixel crack that they pay a small fortune every month in subscription fees simply to keep houses standing. Any normal game would have shut down by now, but this addiction to things they think they own but dont keeps people paying if not playing. Housing is the only thing tat keeps UO alive.

Bottom line is that if you continue to pay a monthly fee (or multiple fees) to a company like EA who have absolutely no interest in customer service or keeping UO up to date and who treat you all like cash cows then you get everything you deserve. Lost a house because of UO bugs? What a surprise. Did you really expect a level or service that prevented it? Has experience of EA over the years taught you nothing? But you still keep playing dont you because you cant bear to let your pixels go no matter how appalling the level of service you get. EA do not care. I cannot think of one other thing in life where you would keep paying through the nose for such a non existant level of customer service. Youd take your money elsewhere. Their billing system says everything you need to know. Look at the problems thats had. Is it too much for a company of that size to get billing right?

UO is what it is. Best game I ever played but its been on life support for years. If you are happy paying your money then accept that, dont expect customer service or bug fixes or updates and dont whine about it. Its never going to change so you have two choices. Keep playing or quit. When they do pull the plug try to stay away from the knife drawer.

 

[Gidge]

I cannot think of one other thing in life where you would keep paying through the nose for such a non existant level of customer service.

Burger King. Definitely Burger King. *thinks* and McDonald's. They always muff up my orders and YET I return. Oh! and Comcast. I have to reboot my box every time I want to watch On Demand, new box and wiring didn't help. *thinks* Does landlord count? My kitchen light has been out for years!!! I gave up.

hmm. Maybe I am just to easy going.

I do disagree though with you saying they don't care. Remember with any business/organization. The BIG BOSSES don't give a crap but us little worker bees do care for our customers. I always have where ever I have worked in Customer Service. Bonnie and the Gang are really wonderful and although they don't get us 100% of the time, they really do listen and take what we say to heart. Did you look at the last list of bug fixes? Fixes I say fixes!

 

[The Craftsman]

Burger King. Definitely Burger King. *thinks* and McDonald's. They always muff up my orders and YET I return. Oh! and Comcast. I have to reboot my box every time I want to watch On Demand, new box and wiring didn't help. *thinks* Does landlord count? My kitchen light has been out for years!!! I gave up.

hmm. Maybe I am just to easy going.

I do disagree though with you saying they don't care. Remember with any business/organization. The BIG BOSSES don't give a crap but us little worker bees do care for our customers. I always have where ever I have worked in Customer Service. Bonnie and the Gang are really wonderful and although they don't get us 100% of the time, they really do listen and take what we say to heart. Did you look at the last list of bug fixes? Fixes I say fixes!

Point taken about mcdonalds and burger king but you get what you pay for I guess. I wouldnt return to any of the restaurants I eat at if the customer service was anything short of excellent. Same with my utilities provider and broadband provider and bank. Ive changed them all due to unacceptable customer service and now get a good service from my surrent providers which I am happy to pay for.

And yes the current devs fix a few bits and pieces but its nothing more than firefighting. They arent resourced to do anything more. Their remit is to make sure the life support machine keeps going. The list of bugs and problems is almost endless.

Dont get me wrong, if you are happy paying hundreds of dollars a month to EA (which some do) and enjoy playing UO then fair play to you. Just dont whine about bugs and exploits and scripters or anything else for that matter as you pay knowing that EA does not care about these things. It wont change so either stop whining or stop paying.

 

[Lady CaT]

Hmm....
Live out of a bank box and you never have to worry about housing timers, paying accounts on time, refreshing anything, losing sleep during vacations or being away from game for umm ever...or reading lots of posts about housing issues....

On a side note I'd love to see the old policy of refresh housing every couple days or your house collapses even with a fully paid account. But that's mostly because I love the thought of Gareth having to remember to run to all his houses every day! And yes I am completely evil.

 

[Goldberg-Chessy]

Verizon
AT&T
Cablevision
Walmart
Google (try calling them lol)
Chrysler (try returning a vehicle 12 days after you paid 50k for it because the transmission blew up)
Any GP physician (try calling your doctor to chat about your health lol. Or better yet ask him/her why you have to wait 40 minutes to be seen even though you made an appointment a month ago)
My local crack dealer. Guy is open like 3 hours a day and its in the middle of the night. And he doesn't accept competitors coupons or take returns, wtf?!!

Gidge was so spot on I had to return lol. I assume you are at least still playing UO and not just talking out of your historical arse Craftsman?

 

[The Craftsman]

Verizon
AT&T
Cablevision
Walmart
Google (try calling them lol)
Chrysler (try returning a vehicle 12 days after you paid 50k for it because the transmission blew up)
Any GP physician (try calling your doctor to chat about your health lol. Or better yet ask him/her why you have to wait 40 minutes to be seen even though you made an appointment a month ago)
My local crack dealer. Guy is open like 3 hours a day and its in the middle of the night. And he doesn't accept competitors coupons or take returns, wtf?!!

Gidge was so spot on I had to return lol. I assume you are at least still playing UO and not just talking out of your historical arse Craftsman?

I stand corrected. I assumed people werent stupid enough to keep throwing money at bad customer service. I was spectacularly wrong. Some people are that stupid.

 

[Gidge]

I stand corrected. I assumed people werent stupid enough to keep throwing money at bad customer service. I was spectacularly wrong. Some people are that stupid.

Gotta own it. I am too..... in many areas of life not just finances.
I am pretty easy going. I am not ditching the only cable service to crawl in DSL. Sometimes I call and get great service, but again, it's the high-ups who won't deal with the issues that keep cropping up, not the phone people. Sometimes there are bad CS eggs though.

My main gripe about any business, and it stands to reason in this thread, if you change something, give us ample notice. If their reasoning is the bad guys will do a bunch more bad things if we alert them, I am sure it would be easier to catch them if they went into hyper doing bad stuff mode.

I hear a whopper jr. with no cheese, pickles or onions calling my name....

 

[Goldberg-Chessy]

So are you not living by your own words of wisdom and still playing UO Craftsman?
Or are you just another ex junkie that thinks people want to hear your version of history instead of current events?

 

[The Craftsman]

So are you not living by your own words of wisdom and still playing UO Craftsman?
Or are you just another ex junkie that thinks people want to hear your version of history instead of current events?

My accounts are on hold until a time ever comes when I deem its worth paying for again. If that day ever comes. Its still the most fun ive had in a game so it holds my interest and I keep up to date with current events as well as knowing many players who still play. Having an opinion or posting on stratics is not the sole domain of those that pay. You however seem under the delusion that it is. If it was then the kiters would only be able to post here one month out of four wouldnt they.

 

[Goldberg-Chessy]

I got it now.
Your first post in this thread clearly stated that UO was broken and could not be fixed. Not sure how you could know this as you don't currently play but luckily for us forum rules do not require people to know what they are posting about

You then went on to basically question why any of us play because of what you perceive as a total lack of support and you finished by saying we are getting what we deserve. Or did I read that wrong? Nope, don't think so.
Nice way of passing judgement on us all, thanks!

Now you back peddle by saying you are simply trying to "keep up to date with current events as well as knowing many players who still play"

And you think my issue is simply the fact that old players still like to post here once in awhile? I love to hear from oldtimers. Sometimes hanging around here gets them motivated to play again. You on the other hand appear to be nothing more then a disgruntled ex junkie who has obvious issues with an MMORPG company lol.

You are priceless bud

 

[The Craftsman]

You are priceless bud

And you are boring me beyond belief. You are dismissed.

 

[Merus]

Personal opinion... Inactive account houses should be automatically sent to private to all but the owner account... No co-owners, friends, etc. Leave in the 90 day rule for those who may actually have issues with updating subs. If you want to use it for storage, np, just be prepared not to have access to the storage until you renew the subscription. As a side benefit, it would hinder the rampant scripting of specific items because the scripters can't see what is in the house if it does in fact go IDOC and fall.

 

[claudia-fjp]

The box on one of the early expansions advertised being able to have multiple houses on 1 account as one of the selling points, then they took that away from us. Now people have extra accounts for storage houses that they pay for 4 times a year. To them paying $14.22 a month year round just isn't worth it just for a house. Instead they pay around ~$4.75 a month and are ok with it. Do you honestly think if you change things again and try to force people to pay more they aren't going to just say screw it and find something better to do with their money? Doing NOTHING we are losing a lot of players as the servers slowly drain over time. Doing something that negatively effects players only speeds it up. You want to go back to not being able to kite houses for 90s? Fine, then let me own 5 houses on 1 account again, it's not like housing space is the issue it once was.

 

[Uriah Heep]

Housing space isn't an issue. Greed and profit are. If they let us go to 5 houses per acct, I bet we would lose 2/3 of our subs!!!

 

[Herman]

Bank boxes should be unlimited and houses should begin decaying the minute a subscription is no longer active.

I think you carry around your bank box in UO wherever you go if it was unlimited it could produce some nasty lagg

 

[claudia-fjp]

Housing space isn't an issue. Greed and profit are. If they let us go to 5 houses per acct, I bet we would lose 2/3 of our subs!!!

That was kinda my point, if you change the way it is so people can't do 1 month on 3 months off for extra houses anymore then you're going to lose those subs anyway.

 

[MalagAste]

Sadly where I live there is ONE cable internet provider... there are a few "broadband" services that claim they have good internet.... but only ONE place around here guarantee's that you have 100 meg service... ONE. So no matter how they suck or that they don't really guarantee anything.... it's a lie, I have no choice.. however I WILL call them up and chew them out and make them refund me for anytime my internet is NOT functioning at 100 megs or better.

McDonalds is about the only Fast Food game in town so if I want food and I want it now..... again I have no choice... but I WILL sit in the drive lane and check that my stuff is OK before I pull away from the window.... much to the annoyance of anyone behind me.

I work in a Laboratory..... I demand and expect precision and excellence... because that's what I do.

I don't except it from a game that's been peiecemealed together for over 17 years. I"m happy it's still here and I hope they can keep it limping along for at least another 10 to 15 years..... or more.

 

[Aran]

"My 100 megabit internet service is occasionally not exactly one hundred megabits or better!" is the most first world problems thing I've heard today.