Well well well. This is the reason there WONT be a classic server.

[Coragin]

I havent even played, but from reading these boards, I see there was an event that you had to goto Fel to complete?

Now, I did say before in the classic server thread, the reason it would fail is because Fel is so unpopulated that the children would come out of the woodwork just to ruin the play of others. That the Reds and PvP'ers of todays game are vastly different than the days of old.

And look what happens? They make an event that requires you to read a book in Fel and the Reds come out of the woodwork just to kill naked players, res kill and basicly just grief.

Thanks for proving my point guys, the PvP'ers of today are nothing like it used to be. Bunch of foul mouthed kids that gank, zerg and grief. And thats exactly what happened from what I am reading.

Didnt even have to make a classic server for my point to be proven, the Reds of todays game were happy to prove just how childish they are in one day.

Bravo guys!

 

[Lord Chaos]

Am too!

 

[Coragin]

Am too!

I dont get it.

 

[Lord Chaos]

lol, you don't understand your own signature?

 

[Morgana LeFay (PoV)]

Am too!

Nice one!

And P.S. - I am not going to argue about a _____ shard here. There are enough threads on the subject.

 

[Kojak]

not the same? I played back then and as far as I can tell, they're exactly the same ... lol

why do you think trammel was invented in the first place ... because they couldn't control themselves and drove all the normal people out of the game

 

[BeefSupreme]

not the same? I played back then and as far as I can tell, they're exactly the same ... lol

why do you think trammel was invented in the first place ... because they couldn't control themselves and drove all the normal people out of the game

Well that's part of it. There was talk about just putting in a 'switch' to allow those who didn't want to pvp, were not forced to.

But at the time, every server was packed with houses. there was not enough room for all the people who wanted one to have one, so they thought they'd kill two birds with one fiction.

 

[Tukaram]

not the same? I played back then and as far as I can tell, they're exactly the same ... lol

why do you think trammel was invented in the first place ... because they couldn't control themselves and drove all the normal people out of the game

Maybe you read it wrong... hold your head sideways and read this excerpt:

Thanks for proving my point guys, the PvP'ers of today are nothing like it used to be. Bunch of foul mouthed kids that gank, zerg and grief.

See? He says the PVP'ers are nothing like they used to be then proceeds to list the attributes of the old PvP crowd. They used to be: foul mouthed kids that gank, zerg and grief.

There doesn't that make sense now? rolleyes:

 

[Vaen Swiftar]

Someone is forgetting that PKs of old would be subject to skill loss upon death.

EDIT: If they resurrected, that is.

 

[Derium of ls]

ever think this was their one day in the last, oh say 10 years to do that again? Hell, I even pondered buying an advanced character just to go red for a day.

 

[eekamouse]

The logic of the OP is totally flawed. There has been more comments in support of the the Day 9 portion of the event than against.

On Sonoma, we had an entire guild there to defend AGAINST the reds all day.

Sorry, but that's awesome.

 

[hawkeye_pike]

And P.S. - I am not going to argue about a _____ shard here. There are enough threads on the subject.

Enough threads - started by the same 3 people.

 

[Derium of ls]

Enough threads - started by the same 3 people.

Hey I'm one of those!

 

[maroite]

The logic of the OP is totally flawed. There has been more comments in support of the the Day 9 portion of the event than against.

On Sonoma, we had an entire guild there to defend AGAINST the reds all day.

Sorry, but that's awesome.

It varied server to server, and based on play times. Its nice that a guild did that on Sonoma, but it wasn't the case on all servers, and I doubt it was the case during all times.

It is sad that the reds took this as a chance to basically harass people. Where is the enjoyment in slaughtering mules and characters who can't pvp? That's not even PvP. Its pathetic to see people make posts saying "Thank you devs for giving all us lame reds the chance to kill trammies!" ...

As if slaughtering people who never or rarely pvp is a challenge or fun. . . rolleyes:

I was tempted to release the 9 Harbingers I have left over from Halloween on the island on Baja, but I figured it would be just as problematic for the blues as the reds. It was amusing that there were NO red healers on the Baja island too. I guess it was a chance. But today's UO babies reds.

 

[Renyard Foxenwyle]

I havent even played, but from reading these boards, I see there was an event that you had to goto Fel to complete?

Now, I did say before in the classic server thread, the reason it would fail is because Fel is so unpopulated that the children would come out of the woodwork just to ruin the play of others. That the Reds and PvP'ers of todays game are vastly different than the days of old.

And look what happens? They make an event that requires you to read a book in Fel and the Reds come out of the woodwork just to kill naked players, res kill and basicly just grief.

Thanks for proving my point guys, the PvP'ers of today are nothing like it used to be. Bunch of foul mouthed kids that gank, zerg and grief. And thats exactly what happened from what I am reading.

Didnt even have to make a classic server for my point to be proven, the Reds of todays game were happy to prove just how childish they are in one day.

Bravo guys!

I don't think that the above situation will be much of a problem on a classic server since most of the people who will be drawn to a classic server will have dealt with it before and know how to fight back. I would say most of the current player base has only been around since UO:R and aren't used to dealing with the ganker pvpers. While some current players will come to a classic shard, I doubt that's the target market.

Also, if you read the classic shard posts you'll see where we've acknowledged that this could be a problem and have discussed myriads of possible solutions to the problem.

Also to go along with the above, while I have only played a trial lately, just by reading the posts regarding the event being in Fel, most people didn't have much of a problem, with many putting 7 toons including crafters through with little to no problems. Most people didn't seem to want to give it a chance simply because it was in Fel and people could possibly lose their pixels or a little bit of insurance money, as if the economy wasn't bloated out of proportion as it is.

 

[Trevelyan]

People haven't changed, UO has.

IMO, items since AoS have just widened the gaps between playstyles, so it is much quicker/easier to PK people who don't PvP.

Just go back to pre-aos, and things will change! Watch these post-aos newbs cry

 

[five oclock]

People haven't changed, UO has.

IMO, items since AoS have just widened the gaps between playstyles, so it is much quicker/easier to PK people who don't PvP.

Just go back to pre-aos, and things will change! Watch these post-aos newbs cry

yeap..I agree completly...The days were you could go out with your Gm armor...and actually put up a good fight with the skills you had and if ya lost you just went home and made more armor and did it again..

Skill base..Not item base as a friend of mine once said....

Nowadays I feel like I need a math degree to play just the pvm part of this game...

 

[Arch Magus]

Nowadays I feel like I need a math degree to play just the pvm part of this game...

lol, i know right.. I feel the exact same way just trying to figure out how to imbue. >_<

 

[Connor_Graham]

There has been more comments in support of the the Day 9 portion of the event than against.

And I suppose you counted them all, including the comments from those in game that were pissed off most of the day yesterday because no one could get to the book?

Yeah.....

 

[Evlar]

What I find interesting, is when a single event causes so much upset amongs the predominantly trammel playing people.

Know what I think?

Why don't EA/Mythic just pull the plug on any form of PvP on the prodo shards. Period.

The "majority" (who are also very vocal it seems...) seem to be dead (no pun intended) against any form of player-versus player-contact. So why not just give them what they want, given they've always had their own way anyway...

Then, give the rest of us two further options.

A mirror of the current game with item-centric PvP and PvM for all the pixel crack junkies.

Classic server for those who prefer pre-AoS with less reliance on items, simplicity and actual possibility of challenge and contact between players.

Simples!

 

[Babble]

The developers claim having 2 different rulesets makes it easier to keep players in their game.
Giving them more choices to do keeps them longer playing.

What I still don't understand is why making a more PvM quests in the PvP lands?
They could at least had one copy of the book in Felucca and the other copy in a hard to reach place in Trammel.
As a developer I would not really force my customers to one playstyle, but maybe they got an explaination why they did it that way.

 

[Evlar]

So here's an interesting theory to ponder on...

Placing the book in a PvP area likely to be camped by other players.

Placing the book in the centre of a heavy/high end monster spawn.

Both would potentially present an equal chance their characters would "die". Question is, would the player base be more/less "upset"?

It seems clear to me that the "majority" of current UO players seem to care little, if at all, for any form of consentual or non-consentual PvP "confrontation" or gameplay whatsoever. If that's the case, as seems to be suggested blatently, or reading between the lines of comments in these forums, then perhaps it's time to remove any aspect of PvP from the production shards on the whole.

Controversial? Certainly. Would it upset elements of the player base? Most definately.

It seems to me that the direction of the game and the different viewpoints of the player base, is coming to a head.

Mindful of this, perhaps the following options might be a viable solution, to keep everyone happy?

Production Shards

Remove any form of PvP from the game. The "majority" who don't do it, don't like it, won't miss it. The "minority" who would, have the following options...

Siege/Mugen

Remove character limits. Modify the skill gain system. Keep all the other aspects that make these shards what they are.

Classic Shards

No AoS, no tram/fel split. "open" PvP/PvM.

................


Let's face it. The community is divided over issues like this. Trying to pull them together clearly doesn't seem to be working. One, the other, or both sides get upset.

Is giving each "camp" something they would be happier with, such a bad idea, if it prolongs their interest in the game?

Any comments?

 

[AzSel]

There are decent reds and there are reds who arent so decent...at all.
Just like there are decent blues and blues who arent so decent...at all.

I dont think a color defines the person behind the character.

 

[Babble]

Still the same argument.
There are players who play 90% Trammel then get the urge to pvp a bit in Felucca and probably vice versa.
Also if one player reaches the pvm endgame they are more likely to stay in uo when they can just switch facets to get a new playstyle instead of starting new on a pvp server.

It is not as easy as you make it. UO's problem is that we have 2 different games in one and developers use them, but a majority of the playerbase prefers the one style with the option of playing it if they want to.

Putting events in Felucca is fine, but maybe not when you start as a simple PvE quest where each character has a daily limit.

 

[Cear Dallben Dragon]

I don't get it. I must have seen a minimum of 18 players blue and red in occlo today getting the book. Not a single fight broke out. If one did who cares. Read the book, die. go away, res, turn in book. *yawn*

 

[Cloak&Dagger]

I don't get it. I must have seen a minimum of 18 players blue and red in occlo today getting the book. Not a single fight broke out. If one did who cares. Read the book, die. go away, res, turn in book. *yawn*

I think the problem people have issues with dying to other people, pride I will say. I bet if they made the same area's simply spawn some a ton of extraordinarily hard creatures people would not be complaining quite as much, well crafters might still but nothing can be done about that.

I have to agree that having the option to pvp on each server is most likely the best way to handle things how they are now. I also have to say that this event was never "pvm" or "pve" as someone put it (who let them type pve?) Anyhow, it was not a "vs" at all, so having a bit of it in fel seems fine. On the other hand, the choice to do so could be to try and get the tram players to venture into fel, this would not be the first time they put part of an event in fel, or even the whole event. Forcing people to do things is not always the best approach but gently nudging, that seems fine to me. From what I can gather you would not even have to finish all 10 days to be "purposeful" so basically do 1-8 and miss out on 2 chances of getting an item, seriously that's what it comes down to right? Everyone trying to get items? Get over it, either suck it up and go to fel, or shut up and don't do those two days. *should most likely hide now*

 

[Tazar]

I think the problem people have issues with dying to other people, pride I will say. I bet if they made the same area's simply spawn some a ton of extraordinarily hard creatures people would not be complaining quite as much, well crafters might still but nothing can be done about that.

I don't mind dying to a monster... I don't mind dying to another player... I mind dying to a hack/script/exploit that creates an unbalanced playing field... I will not use the programs and will stay out of fel until such time as it is a level playing field.

I have to agree that having the option to pvp on each server is most likely the best way to handle things how they are now. I also have to say that this event was never "pvm" or "pve" as someone put it (who let them type pve?) Anyhow, it was not a "vs" at all, so having a bit of it in fel seems fine. On the other hand, the choice to do so could be to try and get the tram players to venture into fel, this would not be the first time they put part of an event in fel, or even the whole event. Forcing people to do things is not always the best approach but gently nudging, that seems fine to me. From what I can gather you would not even have to finish all 10 days to be "purposeful" so basically do 1-8 and miss out on 2 chances of getting an item, seriously that's what it comes down to right? Everyone trying to get items? Get over it, either suck it up and go to fel, or shut up and don't do those two days. *should most likely hide now*

If the "items" given so far are it, then I'm fine with a few days in tram and a few days in fel - it gives something for everyone...

but in this event, we are collecting clues each day that lead to the climax of the event... so for those who completed days 1 to 8 - and have no desire for fel, the final event just became un-completable and since the "items" aren't really any good or of any decent value - completing the quest was my goal - just for the sake of completing it.

If the future of UO design is to force players into other playstyles - or even to lead them on for days only to tell them at the last minute that they have to do things they do not want to do, then honestly, I'll end up leaving Sosaria.

What made UO great is the sandbox! Players could create their own fun and do what they wanted. This is not a sandbox system.

 

[smip]

My gahhh.. why do you all keep saying there is or will not be a classic server. Has everyone forgot about seige, mugen and those servers?? Get over it already.

 

[Cloak&Dagger]

I don't mind dying to a monster... I don't mind dying to another player... I mind dying to a hack/script/exploit that creates an unbalanced playing field... I will not use the programs and will stay out of fel until such time as it is a level playing field.



If the "items" given so far are it, then I'm fine with a few days in tram and a few days in fel - it gives something for everyone...

but in this event, we are collecting clues each day that lead to the climax of the event... so for those who completed days 1 to 8 - and have no desire for fel, the final event just became un-completable and since the "items" aren't really any good or of any decent value - completing the quest was my goal - just for the sake of completing it.

If the future of UO design is to force players into other playstyles - or even to lead them on for days only to tell them at the last minute that they have to do things they do not want to do, then honestly, I'll end up leaving Sosaria.

What made UO great is the sandbox! Players could create their own fun and do what they wanted. This is not a sandbox system.

Cheats....OK I give you that one. I have no counter argument as that is beyond a valid point, I hate that too. =\

You mention the sandbox, but the original sandbox did not seperate any playstyle, that means what they are doing here, was the same as how it was, and is still a sandbox. You do not have to participate in the other playstyle, you also could fully avoid it. If you wish to finish the quest, then do not participate in the pvp, go in and get out as fast as you can, not saying what they did was right, but also not saying it is wrong. Basically the arguments for this are not even valid, they changed the game so you could choose to endure the possibilities of death, or you could choose to avoid them, that choice is still present. I will agree you will not get to read the books, but perhaps someone would be willing to post what they say. Not like the event is all that interesting in the "doing" it is the story that holds this one together, even if the beginning of the story got messed up.

I know I sound a bit harsh but it is the honest truth of the game as it is, I know its a hard concept for most (not you) but close to 90% of the people who play are considered trammies, that means at any point and time if 10% of the population can kill 90% of the population, well...we have a design flaw, other wise the balance is this game is a community game, it started that way, started to sway from it, but hopefully will continue to be pushed back to it, and eventually will end that way. I am not really for forcing any of the trammel players into fel, but the real complaint about fel is griefing (or cheating, but hopefully cheating will be a non-issue soon) and griefing can happen in any facet, but for some reason fel griefing seems to be a bigger issue to people, when in reality if they just went back to tram got about half the population of luna, and went back to fel...it would be a non-issue (except for the cheating....). It use to be like this, after trammel I mean, had issues in fel go to tram find some people, we get rid of the issues. Even before tram it was like that, I know the issue is big, and I know most people don't want to deal with it and that is their choice, I would not force it on them myself.

 

[Tazar]

Cheats....OK I give you that one. I have no counter argument as that is beyond a valid point, I hate that too. =\

You mention the sandbox, but the original sandbox did not seperate any playstyle, that means what they are doing here, was the same as how it was, and is still a sandbox. You do not have to participate in the other playstyle, you also could fully avoid it. If you wish to finish the quest, then do not participate in the pvp, go in and get out as fast as you can, not saying what they did was right, but also not saying it is wrong. Basically the arguments for this are not even valid, they changed the game so you could choose to endure the possibilities of death, or you could choose to avoid them, that choice is still present. I will agree you will not get to read the books, but perhaps someone would be willing to post what they say. Not like the event is all that interesting in the "doing" it is the story that holds this one together, even if the beginning of the story got messed up.

I know I sound a bit harsh but it is the honest truth of the game as it is, I know its a hard concept for most (not you) but close to 90% of the people who play are considered trammies, that means at any point and time if 10% of the population can kill 90% of the population, well...we have a design flaw, other wise the balance is this game is a community game, it started that way, started to sway from it, but hopefully will continue to be pushed back to it, and eventually will end that way. I am not really for forcing any of the trammel players into fel, but the real complaint about fel is griefing (or cheating, but hopefully cheating will be a non-issue soon) and griefing can happen in any facet, but for some reason fel griefing seems to be a bigger issue to people, when in reality if they just went back to tram got about half the population of luna, and went back to fel...it would be a non-issue (except for the cheating....). It use to be like this, after trammel I mean, had issues in fel go to tram find some people, we get rid of the issues. Even before tram it was like that, I know the issue is big, and I know most people don't want to deal with it and that is their choice, I would not force it on them myself.

I agree with most all of what you said, and hopefully the cheating fixes will go a long way towards reducing the divide in the community and will help level the playing field...

But on this event... To lead players through 8/10th's of it heading towards an event climax and at the very end, pull a bait and switch is wrong.

Maybe someone else will post the clues and that will be enough to do the climax; but the event may also require you to have opened each book to be able to complete the quest... That would be very wrong!

Heck, with the current progression, I fully expect the finale to be in fel as well.

Tell me up front so that next time: I can find a lot better things to do in UO than waste 8 days building up to something I will never complete...

On a different subject... If we are all forced into Fel for the event, then why is there a Lt. Crag (Minax) on the docks of Cove in Trammel! Minax is fel based - but they get an "easy button"?

 

[Mapper]

I don't get it. I must have seen a minimum of 18 players blue and red in occlo today getting the book. Not a single fight broke out. If one did who cares. Read the book, die. go away, res, turn in book. *yawn*

If I'm turning up naked it clearly shows I have nothing on me, So the only reason to kill me would be just meanness, If I had artifacts on, That weren't insured or alot of gold then atleast they have a reason. I cannot be bothered with people who kill just to kill.

That said, I managed to do both Felucca spots today on Europa with no bother.

 

[Widow Maker]

Well well well. This poster is the reason so many people go years without fully experiencing all that UO has to offer and never get the full value out of their entertainment money.

It is sad really.

Was yesterday..and likely today... a kill fest for those who enjoy PvP...probably..depending on which shard you were on (be glad I was at work yesterday and today Sonoma ).

Was it because of all the drivel that has been mentioned on the various whines here and elsewhere? Nope...

For those who enjoy all aspects of this game and get full value out of our entertainment investment..the kill fests like this are for one reason and one only...

Available targets.

It has nothing to do with anything else. It is not personal.

In life and in games there are two types of lives: "bullets" and "targets". Absolutely everyone is a target. Every man, woman and child. Some of those folks also choose to be bullets. Bullets are meant to destroy targets. There are MANY types of bullets. There are bullets in this game. A bullet does not care what the target is..it simply is an end to the means. A bullet exists only to be fired at a target and has only one purpose once released.


I choose to try to be the bullet most of the time. I am also a target....without the whining.

 

[Kaleb]

Fel deserves EM quests and events also, I do not classify Fel as being a PvP area but a PvP enabled area the real UO. If a person is so greedy to where they need to use all characters for the soul purpose of getting items, and throwing a tantrum like my 2yo for getting killed on a mule or noobie character by another player they deserve to die and get dry looted.

A classic shard would be a whole separate system with separate playerbase of whom from the first few years mostly do not Play UO anymore and the few of us Real Vets (those that have their original account of 132 mo's or better and didnt buy it) to have a place we can enjoy.

Face it there are no longer waves of new players coming into UO, You used to be able to hang out at the nwbrit inn and greet young players all day long, now you can go all day w/o seeing a young tag. UO PvM gameplay is weak to the new player, they would rather play WoW considering WoW's Graphics are nice enough to display on boxes in stores.......Wait UO is not even in stores unless you look in the bargain bin or under layers of dust, So why not focus some attention to a different Playerbase, Get back some who have left and gain those that would be interested.

UO PvP is among the best in MMOs, its is one of the fastest, most dynamic, player skill based systems out there, 1/4 of a second can mean life or death. There are Millions of people in the world who Play PvP based games be it FPS like counterstrike, COD,exc,exc,to mmo's like UO,WOW,DarkFall,AOC,L1,L2 exc,exc. It would be a wise decision to market one of UO's best features to that playerbase. You know when everything else has failed Why the heck not try?

AS for a classic shard I can only compare to the Freeshard I am on. its T2a Rules with features from newer expansions that to not mess with combat or skills. Reds do not have any drawbacks but yet PvM thrives, dungeons are packed with Pvmers, The line todays "trammies"(I would use PvMer but its a valued playstyle on classic servers) like to say "of course they play it, its free" Yes while it may be free they could simply play a trammel ruleset one for free too, but they choose not to, in fact most the trammel ruleset PRS I have visited were almost deserted while its counterparts seem to thrive.

My point is just because you do not like a ruleset does not mean there are not thousands who do like to play under that type of ruleset, And if you look at the current trend in the MMO market a lot of the big releases have been based around PvP while some try to revisit the system UO mastered. Its time for EA to use and market the best system in UO, a system many others failed at mimicking. First stages are already in place with a major Buzz around the gaming world that the devs even talked about the possibility of creating a Classic server.

 

[Tazar]

Great points - but I think you missed the point.

UO lets you do what you want to - when you want to. Anytime you start forcing players to do things they do not want to - you start to loose them.

The wolves (pk) want sheep (trammies) - so a smart herder (Dev) keeps the sheep (trammies) in a generally safe area (trammel) rather than throwing them to the wolves (pk's in fel). If the wolves eat all the sheep, they starve (empty fel).

Sure events should be in fel too - so that everyone can participate. But players should not be forced into things they do not want to do in order to participate.

 

[the 4th man]

People haven't changed, UO has.

IMO, items since AoS have just widened the gaps between playstyles, so it is much quicker/easier to PK people who don't PvP.

Just go back to pre-aos, and things will change! Watch these post-aos newbs cry

In your opinion you're right, in reality, you're wrong. Yes, the game has changed, that's obvious.

But, until you live a time span beyond your 20's and experience life, mature and grow, you'll see what it's like to change, in beliefs, morals, and whatnot.

Newbies, especially kids, teens and in their 20's are being brought up in a society different from that when UO was hatched. Kids today are oblivious to the concept of death, unless their in the inner city where guns, drugs and violence is rampant.

Death on tv is so common, shows like CSI have to have a death to have a show. So, these kids with a bloodlust mentality go about pk-ing, repeatidly, and ignore that they are interacting with somone elses life.

Yes, there's the age old arguement, you go to felly-land, expect it. This is why the illustious classic UO failed. (yes, it failed) because of the ones who "need" to pk, for the glory of pk-ing. Sheldon wanted opies milk money too.

Trammies, fellys, take your pick.........going back to pre-aos won't change a thing. You'll have this classic, nostolgia trip shard, which will be as populated as seige.

Rebutt your butt off, I generally post and don't look back.

later

 

[Kaleb]

Great points - but I think you missed the point.

UO lets you do what you want to - when you want to. Anytime you start forcing players to do things they do not want to - you start to loose them.

The wolves (pk) want sheep (trammies) - so a smart herder (Dev) keeps the sheep (trammies) in a generally safe area (trammel) rather than throwing them to the wolves (pk's in fel). If the wolves eat all the sheep, they starve (empty fel).

Sure events should be in fel too - so that everyone can participate. But players should not be forced into things they do not want to do in order to participate.

All that would be true if they were considering reverting the current servers, But adding servers will only attract those who want to play in that ruleset just because PvP would be enabled it wont be about PvP, to some it will but they will be outnumbered. In fact in the classic shard thread I stated I believe they need to make a trammel version also for those that play only trammel and dont like the AOS crapola. Im just more for the fel ruleset environment. For the record, I never played a red up untill shortly after Powerscrolls were introduced where then I was forced to have a red character for the simple fact of keeping champ spawns.

If you think about this, When we started UO in 97-99 How old were we? How old are we now? I would put the majority of us that would play that server that return in their late 20's to 40's Obviously the majority of the people are more mature, wise, smarter then back then that is why there are a lot of great ideas in the classic shard thread about keeping the t2a ruleset and pk balance in check. It seriously would be a whole new environment.

 

[Tazar]

Ah. I see we are talking about two different things... You took the OP and ran with the Classic Shard aspect while I ran with the issues on the current event.

 

[Kaleb]

Ah. I see we are talking about two different things... You took the OP and ran with the Classic Shard aspect while I ran with the issues on the current event.

Its about both, A lot was based off the thread title. I already touched on my opinion of Events, Quests that go into fel in the first paragraph of my first response, where as todays UO is so far off from where a classic shard would be and stating my opinions and observations on why the 2, todays fel and a classic shard cant be compared, and that there is no Proof a classic shard with the t2a ruleset would be unsuccessful when numbers on the PRS side of things prove pretty much otherwise, being that people that play are not subject to one system, they are free so they have a choice on their rulesets.

 

[fantasy10k]

I havent even played, but from reading these boards, I see there was an event that you had to goto Fel to complete?

Now, I did say before in the classic server thread, the reason it would fail is because Fel is so unpopulated that the children would come out of the woodwork just to ruin the play of others. That the Reds and PvP'ers of todays game are vastly different than the days of old.

And look what happens? They make an event that requires you to read a book in Fel and the Reds come out of the woodwork just to kill naked players, res kill and basicly just grief.

Thanks for proving my point guys, the PvP'ers of today are nothing like it used to be. Bunch of foul mouthed kids that gank, zerg and grief. And thats exactly what happened from what I am reading.

Didnt even have to make a classic server for my point to be proven, the Reds of todays game were happy to prove just how childish they are in one day.

Bravo guys!

The PvP players that plays UO now might be kids, thats true. But the ones who discuss about it doesnt even play on EA's servers anymore. So you fail sir.

Ps. Go troll somewhere else.

 

[Cloak&Dagger]

I agree with most all of what you said, and hopefully the cheating fixes will go a long way towards reducing the divide in the community and will help level the playing field...

But on this event... To lead players through 8/10th's of it heading towards an event climax and at the very end, pull a bait and switch is wrong.

Maybe someone else will post the clues and that will be enough to do the climax; but the event may also require you to have opened each book to be able to complete the quest... That would be very wrong!

Heck, with the current progression, I fully expect the finale to be in fel as well.

Tell me up front so that next time: I can find a lot better things to do in UO than waste 8 days building up to something I will never complete...

On a different subject... If we are all forced into Fel for the event, then why is there a Lt. Crag (Minax) on the docks of Cove in Trammel! Minax is fel based - but they get an "easy button"?

I can agree with all of that, considering I did not design the quest, I can not form an opinion of a "what if" If you need to have done all the parts to participate in the climax, then perhaps they should have gone another route, on the same token though, everything I said prior to this is also valid, you could have gotten to the books, and suffered a death.

I understand forcing people to participate in a playstyle they do not wish to is not a good idea, but also understand the underlying of the game was this way, always. And also understand it is not the residents of fel who are the issue, I would even argue that a good portion of the griefers are not really "residents" but more like, visitors, they spend their time simply trying to grief pk and if that does not work out, they go to tram.

I do not believe it is "pvp" or a playstyle that is really an issue here, it is the Tone of the players which is the issue, and that tone is that Fel is full of only griefers, which has never been true, in fact as I have pointed out somewhere there are much more griefers in Tram than in fel, and in tram you can not do anything about it. Again I understand where you come from, and I tend to take a neutral path on most subjects, and I am once more sorry if I seem harsh to anyone, but I just do not feel this is as big of an issue as it is being made out to be, in fact if they held a Large scale event in fel, how many "pvp" griefers would be able to actually grief? 905 of the population vs 10%, it is hard to believe the small populace (this is including ALL of the fel residents, not just the griefers) would be able to kill off the larger populace. That also does not account for the fact that most of the residents of fel would be fighting each other as well, so its more like 90vs2vs2vs2vs2vs2. I understand on some shards the griefing population is quite large, and also on some shards (like atl) there is a good amount of fel populace, but even then they should be out numbered assuming most of tram shows up.

Edit: For the second subject....that is a good question, It really does not seem to be logical to have him in tram if they were going to make us go to fel anyway.

 

[Coragin]

The PvP players that plays UO now might be kids, thats true. But the ones who discuss about it doesnt even play on EA's servers anymore. So you fail sir.

Ps. Go troll somewhere else.

I havent played in about a month, maybe two tops due to real life, I never said I didnt play EA anymore, I merely said "I havent even played", that was meaning this event.

Nice try though, A for effort, but guess who fails here? Maybe I should bring you to my castle so I can show you I still do play? Just havent for this event. Do research before y9ou go off being an ASSuming jerk.

 

[Cloak&Dagger]

I havent played in about a month, maybe two tops due to real life, I never said I didnt play EA anymore, I merely said "I havent even played", that was meaning this event.

Nice try though, A for effort, but guess who fails here? Maybe I should bring you to my castle so I can show you I still do play? Just havent for this event. Do research before y9ou go off being an ASSuming jerk.

Err, you failed again. He was saying the people who discuss a classic server do not play EA servers. But then he fails in realizing that the pvpers who do play today, might actually show up on his classic server and cause their grief there. So who knows.

 

[PJay]

Seems to me the greed factors been forgotten again. People moaning about a quest which 2 out of 10 locations are in the fel facet 1 next to a gz.

How would this compleatly ruin your game style exactly?

Some people need to grow up!

Also for everyones information if u come to fel you are a target red blue orange frigging pink it dosnt matter your a target. Naked or otherwise.
Mostly from my experiance the ones naked are usually the greifers running in and out getting killed 4 or 5 times moaning about reds killing naked players WTF?! die once leave.

End!

 

[Nexus]

Also for everyones information if u come to fel you are a target red blue orange frigging pink it dosnt matter your a target. Naked or otherwise.
Mostly from my experiance the ones naked are usually the greifers running in and out getting killed 4 or 5 times moaning about reds killing naked players WTF?! die once leave.!

No those factors aren't forgotten, they are simply why a Classic Shard can't work if it's Fel Only, just because some people enjoy PvP, and other can take or leave it, there are still more yet that want nothing to do with it 100%. Me I can take or leave it, it's not my thing but i know when I'm on the red side of the moongate I'm a target. BUT....

It's that attitude, displayed in that post of yours, that will prevent Felucca in any way shape form or concept from ever being popular again. Let me spell it out...

UO is not just PvP, preying on Mules and newbs is lame, immature and frankly shows a rather disgusting display of cruelty. For all the PvPers raving about how Great PvP in UO is and how they want the game to keep running they do a fine job of supplying reasons it really shouldn't. Want my opinion....

Go red get a 1 way transfer to Siege, sure wipe the shard 100% (It's empty enough to only **** off a minority of the player base) disallow character creation there. Go Red get zapped over welcome to your new home. Get rid of the 1 toon per account limit, but don't let anyone create toons there and counts don't wear off. Get 7 on Siege guess what after that go red and the toon gets deleted. Lets see how happy you are and how great UO PvP is when you can't build a suit because there are no mules, or see if the PvP community learns a little control and moderation of their attitudes towards other players...

 

[PJay]

My attitude has nothing to do with it.

Why do people keep bleeting on about naked chars crafters in fel being attacked etc. Are the fel players supposed to spot a crafter miner naked char and not take any action?

Fel is supposed to be a ruthless lawless environment all i can see from reading this post is that generally red pvpers are rping their part of the game perfectly well. Ok u get the odd rk but if you get rk'd more than once your not using your brain.

Just to clarify i dont believe there should be a fel only server because i dont see the need for it. Its about time trammies start to adventure more and stick up to the red population after all you fight tougher oppenents in pvm than in pvp and you outnumber reds.

Why do most of you not wish to step foot in fel... Greed. Want everything with no risk.

 

[XavierGL]

I havent even played, but from reading these boards, I see there was an event that you had to goto Fel to complete?

Now, I did say before in the classic server thread, the reason it would fail is because Fel is so unpopulated that the children would come out of the woodwork just to ruin the play of others. That the Reds and PvP'ers of todays game are vastly different than the days of old.

And look what happens? They make an event that requires you to read a book in Fel and the Reds come out of the woodwork just to kill naked players, res kill and basicly just grief.

Thanks for proving my point guys, the PvP'ers of today are nothing like it used to be. Bunch of foul mouthed kids that gank, zerg and grief. And thats exactly what happened from what I am reading.

Didnt even have to make a classic server for my point to be proven, the Reds of todays game were happy to prove just how childish they are in one day.

Bravo guys!

Well since you havent played is your opinion really valid?? I played a red of old and I play a red now. Not a thing has changed, there was griefing in the old days and there is greifing now. The diffrence between then and now is tram and the poor losers that are too afraid of their shadow to leave it. OMG their pixles got killed and they all come to these boards to cry about it.

 

[five oclock]

na the reds of today have changed alot from days of the old...lets see now...

Hrm...

No skill lose..

Not being able to go into towns.

If ya showed up anywhere solo...ya chances of being killed were great...

not being able to get rezed UNLESS by the Chaos shrine..which was a GREAT place to camp for blues to get revenge

I could go on.. But seriously..Reds have it made in this game..compared to the days of old

Yeah maybe you never died on your red in the days of old..BUT I have..and let me tell ya..It stunk

Besides nowadays I really never see reds..UNLESS by the gate or doing a champ...

Days of old...I would see plenty of reds..Kinda sad actually..

 

[Violence]

Re: Well well well.

Personally I only see a couple of valid reasons why a Classic Shard can't CURRENTLY be offered. But let's save that for another time..

"They make an event that requires you to read a book in Fel and the Reds come out of the wood-work just to kill naked players, res-kill and basically just grief."

- I was about to explain to you some things about entering Felucca, having to do with defending yourself. I changed my mind and will instead give you a rolleyes: icon.

"Thanks for proving my point guys, the PvPers of today are nothing like it used to be. Bunch of foul mouthed kids that gank, zerg and grief. And that's exactly what happened from what I am reading."

- If you weren't there, you shouldn't assume too much. Having said that, bursting someone's dream-bubble of what they THINK they will find in Felucca coming there naked is now griefing? What does that make Trammel residents? Self-centered, unable to co-operate, unable to grasp certain facts about 50% of the game, addicted to being killed by what they THINK were old-school PKs..? There's no need to go on, just as there is no need to pay attention to your post really.

Really. It's Felucca. What are you doing there naked, again? Why can't you defend yourself or just opt not to go just as I would if I had only red characters on my account and the last step of a quest would require me to step into Trammel where I would be a target to everyone(for arguement's sake, assume I could, but couldn't fight, yet still be a valid target to all blue characters)?

I think it is YOU proving a certain other point here..

 

[Evlar]

Re: Well well well.

You know, half of the problem here, is indeed selfishness. This apparent "majority" of players who don't like the play styles of others or PvP, therefore feel the need to whine and bleat about it, or that there's no place for it in the game.

Incidentally, I've never been much of a PvP'er. I had a roleplaying red once, many, many years ago. I've also done the odd bit of factions. I get bored with PvP unless there's some point to it and given the factions system has been broken for so long, AoS and item dependency made it farcical, there's no real appeal, unless it's the occasional duel or guild battle.

Point is, it's part of the game. Has been from the start. Remove it completely (as some people seem to think would be "better) and you will hammer the final nail in the coffin of this game.

I gave my thoughts and potential solutions in post #22. I was surprised those thoughts and suggestions didn't generate more response and debate.

What that tells me, is that people are far too selfish to their own preferences. That's why the game is now full to the brim with people happy to whine and cry about the first thing they don't like. All the "me, me, me" people.

Hell, it's supposed to be an MMO, not a single player game.

If I had been playing on a shard where this book was being camped or raided by a few reds, I would have thought it might just have been fun to get a couple of guilds together and defend it. That would have been PvP with some point and challenge.

 

[Coragin]

na the reds of today have changed alot from days of the old...lets see now...

Hrm...

No skill lose..

Not being able to go into towns.

If ya showed up anywhere solo...ya chances of being killed were great...

not being able to get rezed UNLESS by the Chaos shrine..which was a GREAT place to camp for blues to get revenge

I could go on.. But seriously..Reds have it made in this game..compared to the days of old

Yeah maybe you never died on your red in the days of old..BUT I have..and let me tell ya..It stunk

Besides nowadays I really never see reds..UNLESS by the gate or doing a champ...

Days of old...I would see plenty of reds..Kinda sad actually..