Virginmedia users? (ISP woes)

[LadyNico]

Virginmedia users?

I'm in London, and my ISP (Virgin 30-50mb fibreoptic blahblahblah) is pants.

Having investigated with Virginmedia directly, it seems they have a policy of traffic management which squelches the signals at regular intervals which in turn impacts negatively on gameplay.

From a guild member, I understand there are a number of ISPs are notoriously slow for playing UO - BT and Virgin being two prime offenders.

Since I'm seriously considering ditching Turgidmedia, which UK and/or London based ISPs are working well for you?

I'd put this in UO Tech, however, no one from outside the USA tends to post there.

 

[Cailleach]

Given that BT own almost the entire UK communications network, no matter who you buy your connection from, BT can still screw with it.

I can't recommend an ISP, unfortunately; thanks to BT and their stupid 'exchange activation', there's only one provider of broadband for where we live. It's a radio network and BT STILL manage to screw with it. Go figure!

 

[Kayne]

Lady Nico,

I personally have Sky providing mine. The trick these days is that a fair few ISP's now have LLU services. Which take the onus off of BT. (this is the reason you now dont have to have a BT landline in order to have sky broadband or indeed you can have sky providing your landline with no need for line rental to BT as used to be the case)

My personal comments having worked in the tech industry is dont touch AOL/TalkTalk with a barge pole.

Unfortunately unless you go fibre with someone else the speed you get is dependant on your distance to the nearest exchange and how many others are using the same line at the same time.

 

[Adol]

I'm on VirginMedia, but on a lower broadband package (10mb I think) which is uncapped and unlimited. The trick is to call up and tell them that you plan to leave every now and then; especially if you can claim constant hardware faults or that the conditions have changed (which allows you to walk away as soon as they do). They will then pass you on to Retentions, who are authorised to give you much better options than you can normally sign up for, to try and get you to stay.

 

[Cailleach]

you can have sky providing your landline with no need for line rental to BT as used to be the case)

You might not be paying rental to BT - but Sky are. They buy the landline capacity from BT, then sell it on to you, the customer. BT have a whole section dealing with this, and they won't even talk to you unless you're a telecoms company and registered with OFCOM as such. There's one area that has communications infrastructure that doesn't belong to BT. Before WWII, each area had and owned (there's the important bit) it's own communications infrastructure. At the beginning of the war, a few years in, it was all put under one umbrella, GPO, (the reverse of privatisation!) for ease of use, maintenance etc. Meant it was all working to the same book on the same page. After the war, it was officially nationalised, except for an area around Kingston, which remains, as far as I know, the only area independant of BT.

Unless you live in the area not owned by BT, they own everything to do with your phone. All you do when you buy from someone else is introduce a middle man. I'd rather go to BT; at least when I have reason to be peeved, I'm being peeved at the organ grinder, not the monkey! Some companies buy a lower level of service when they buy the package from wholesale. Others buy higher. But regardless of the package bought, BT will always put their own stuff first; they're not supposed to, but they damn well do!

 

[LadyNico]

Adol, will give it a go, though from the Virginmedia help & support forums, some deeply angry WoW players have been trying unsuccessfully to get things resolved since last July!

Let's just say, I'm not exactly hopeful about Virgin Media's desire or ability to remedy the problems for gamers they have already identified - latency & jitter, down to their own traffic management practices.

I detested BT's service - I used to call BT Business Broadband the Femme Package since it was invariably offline at least once a month and gave me murderous thoughts. :gun:

I'm told Sky isn't bad, not great, just acceptable, but to avoid TalkTalk like the plague. Anyone on Sky? They keep touting for our business. Might just give it to them.

Right now, UO is unplayable for me. One moment fine, the next I'm lagging so badly I'm rooted to the spot.

 

[Cailleach]

Adol, will give it a go, though from the Virginmedia help & support forums, some deeply angry WoW players have been trying unsuccessfully to get things resolved since last July!

Let's just say, I'm not exactly hopeful about Virgin Media's desire or ability to remedy the problems for gamers they have already identified - latency & jitter, down to their own traffic management practices.

I detested BT's service - I used to call BT Business Broadband the Femme Package since it was invariably offline at least once a month and gave me murderous thoughts. :gun:

I'm told Sky isn't bad, not great, just acceptable, but to avoid TalkTalk like the plague. Anyone on Sky? They keep touting for our business. Might just give it to them.

Right now, UO is unplayable for me. One moment fine, the next I'm lagging so badly I'm rooted to the spot.

If you're lookng to get out of your contract early and go elsewhere, keep records of speed tests etc. You have to prove that you're not getting what you pay for, then there's no penalties for leaving early. So do speed tests, keep records of them and ring Virgin at least once a week, speed test in hand to complain

 

[Mapper]

No real advice here, Just to confirm, Had plenty problems with BT myself. If I had other options I'd not be with them.

 

[Petra Fyde]

virgin service seems to vary a lot from region to region. We've not had problems and a speed check shows we're actually getting what we pay for, or very close to it. However we are in a rural area.

 

[Sienus UO Europa]

I'm in Hackney. I use ADSL24 (ADSL24 - Broadband from 1 month contract, 24/7 UK support, Free migration, No traffic shaping or port blocking.). It's around £20 per month for the 30gb/month package (unlimited midnight-8am & weekends). I've been with them since early 2006. I had lots of problems with my line to a new-build flat such as echoing, dropped connections, poor speeds etc. ADSL24 did all the wrangling with BT on my behalf - i didn't have to raise my voice with anyone. The ADSL24 techs knew what they were talking about and kept me up to date throughout, and later when BT tried to charge me £200 for the numerous OpenReach engineer visits they fought and got that waived for me too. (it transpired that my line was flooded by Thames Water doing the mains replacement work).

In short, ADSL24 in London for me have been superb and I have no plans of changing. BT are awful and you need someone with tech know-how to argue with them on your behalf

400m from the exchange I'm hitting 20mb with ADSL2+ since it went live this year. The line is as solid as a rock, dropouts/resyncs are very rare. On the older ADSL1 I did once go 6 months without a drop on the router. I've always gone with their router recommendation btw - was a Speedtouch 585v6, now a Thompson TG582n - both solid.

Hope that helps ya. PM/ICQ if you've any questions.
724 8299.

 

[Bobar]

Can't help, can only sympathize and tell you that I am on Virgin and my connection went bad last November. After waiting some 9 Months or so with bad/poor connection every day they finally did some major upgrade in this area (Peterborough) in September. I am now back to good performance all the time I'm glad to say but it was a hell of a long wait to get what I was paying for.

 

[LadyNico]

Bobar, I can't even hope for upgrading as Virgin has within the last three months upgraded our area (Wimbledon). While the speedtest is sometimes marginally faster, the jitter remains unchanged. One engineer said traffic lights near the green box were interfering with signal, the rest of the engineers pooh-poohed this. Ultimately nothing has changed.

Speaking with Virgin accomplishes nothing. Posting to their tech forums attracts nothing but posts from other disgruntled folks who would much rather be gaming than complaining about not being able to game. Virgin's traffic shaping remains the same, so, therefore, does the latency and jitter.

Sienus, *I honor thee* Your link looks promising. First port of call is a last ditch phone call to say we're swapping broadband packages. Based on past customer service experience with Virgin, I have little doubt our next stop will be ADSL24, even if it means I have to return to BT (blech) to do it.



Edit: Added ping & speed tests...

 

[Sienus UO Europa]

Your results are worrying indeed !
Obviously, it does depend on your distance from the exchange / line / house wiring / filter / router etc with the BT option. BT still have that annoying 'settling period' as well - where for about 2 weeks from activation the line fluctuates while it tries to work out how fast it can support without dropping.

ADSL24 use the MurphX network for their routing - here's what I'm getting right now.... I've selected Milton Keynes & Sittingbourne to give a like comparison.



I'm actually a little dissappointed with the Speedtest result, but it's what i'm getting right at this moment so i'll roll with it

Also, worth noting that most ADSL24 packages are 1-month contracts - so if you don't like them you can cancel out at any time with no penalty. And no, I don't work for them.

Good luck getting it all sorted out. We all know how annoying lag can be -it drove me away from UO & EQ over the years... but never again

 

[Kayne]

I'm told Sky isn't bad, not great, just acceptable, but to avoid TalkTalk like the plague. Anyone on Sky? They keep touting for our business. Might just give it to them.

Right now, UO is unplayable for me. One moment fine, the next I'm lagging so badly I'm rooted to the spot.

Everyone has different experiences but since being with Sky any time we've had a problem they investigate it and do the necessary things and it all gets resolved. Speed is as with all other ADSL providers on an up to basis (in this case its upto 20mb) I get about 6mb but I knew that would be the case from previous ADSL providers and from the line tests sky themselves did before we signed up.

besides £7.50 for broadband cant be that bad (with sky talk line rental)

Heres my speed/ping results

 

[Fluffi]

Nico,

I work as a techie for an ISP, and I'm not going to attempt to recommend a provider for you.

As was said earlier, finding a LLU in your local exchange might improve your connection a bit, but I wouldn't bank on it as there are other factors to be taken into account.
The most important of these is general network congestion: The UK uses the internet most between 5pm - midnight. NO provider will guarantee connection speeds during this time window.

The other main problem comes in the network hops which are not controlled by your provider.
I don't play anymore, but I think I remember the server addresses - I just ran a tracert to europa.owo. I hopped from Swansea, via Bristol / Swindon / Birmingham / Ealing with perfectly acceptable times, but it all fell apart at the alter-net server (which I think is one of the London core servers). Nothing I can do here will improve my pings through this server, as it is outside of the control of my ISP.


Bottom line: if it's playable but crappy, try to live with it; if it's unplayable, try something else and hope.


Luv U

Fluffi

 

[jack flash uk]

Hey Nico

forgive my untechnical brain, but i am with virgin media on a 50mb connection, and i am in Herts

i did a speed test and was only hitting 20mb

so, after some toy throwing etc, an engineer came round and went into one on my behalf

problem 1, wireless hub behind out 60in tv, this thing will block military communications!
so, the hub has to move, guessing your hub is behind tv too

problem 2, was told you will NOT get 50mb wirelessly, and you will need the cable in house, i was lucky that i had an old ntl internet outlet in my "computer room"

the fibre optic only works to your front door so the ethernet cable inside, make sure its a good one (someone else will tell you what that is)

so after this, i am running almost perfect speeds via virgin media ( ping 10, download 42.04 upload 3.6) as of right now
hope this helps

Jack

 

[Kayne]

Jack is quite correct if you are attempting to use wireless and have the router in a corner on the floor, behind a tv. (this sounds incredible but is true) Even a set of golf clubs can cause problems.

No you will never get the same throughput on a wireless connection. Best to always be on an ethernet cable connection where possible. Even better if you have a newer router and pc as they may both support 1gb connection and will speed up the transfer between router and pc. However even the old ones go at 100mb so even then you should be fine.

 

[Petra Fyde]

Fluffy, the owo addresses are no good anymore, they moved all the servers. Current ip address for Europa 213.71.25.65

 

[LeBaiton]

Fluffy, the owo addresses are no good anymore, they moved all the servers. Current ip address for Europa 213.71.25.65

Sorry to hijack your thread Nico, but can anyone tell me if I am correct in assuming the traceroute below means I´m being redirected to Dallas, Texas, USA before I'm being sent back to Dortmund, Germany?

TraceRoute to 213.71.25.65

Hop (ms) (ms) 	(ms)    IP Address 	Host name 
1   0    0    	0	206.123.64.46   -   
2   0    0    	0       8.9.232.73  	xe-5-3-0.edge3.dallas1.level3.net   
3   0    0    	0       4.69.145.12  	ae-1-60.edge2.dallas3.level3.net   
4   0    0    	0       4.68.62.166  	mci-level3-30g.dallas3.level3.net   
5   1    0    	1       152.63.96.46  	0.ae1.xl3.dfw7.alter.net   
6   39   68    	39      152.63.43.69  	0.xe-3-2-0.il1.dca6.alter.net   
7   39   39    	39      152.63.43.78  	0.ge-1-2-0.il1.dca4.alter.net   
8   123  122    122     146.188.14.205  so-1-0-0.xt2.hdn2.alter.net   
9   131  129    131     149.227.19.166  so-2-0-0.cr1.dtm1.alter.net   
10  131  131    129     149.227.16.194  pos1-0.gw8.dtm1.alter.net   
11  136  129    129     139.4.234.26  	ea-mythic.dortmund.de.alter.net   
12  132  129    132     213.71.25.65   	-   

Trace complete

If so, no wonder my ping is that high. I'm getting flashbacks to SprintLink...

 

[Petra Fyde]

I'm no expert, but that's what it looks like.
In fact that trace route STARTS at Dallas! I think you need a few sharp words with your isp.

 

[LeBaiton]

Figured out it had something to do with the website I used. When I used the good ol' uotrace program, it looked perfectly normal...

Never mind my previous post

 

[LadyNico]

@ Fluffi: Much appreciated, me dear. Last night was almost playable...

@ LeBaiton: You know very well you're always welcome to my threads, hon. Hope we can both be sorted by everyone who's been kind enough to chime in, and thanks to Petra for allowing us to air our connectivity woes.

Tracing route to 213.71.25.65 over a maximum of 30 hops

1 25 ms 14 ms 35 ms 10.86.112.1
2 15 ms 26 ms 33 ms nmal-geam-1b-ge216.network.virginmedia.net [81.96.225.213]
3 329 ms 285 ms 36 ms croy-core-1b-pc112.network.virginmedia.net [62.30.242.53]
4 17 ms 9 ms 10 ms popl-bb-1b-ae2-0.network.virginmedia.net [195.182.178.86]
5 10 ms 17 ms 9 ms xe-1-0-0-xcr1.lsw.cw.net [166.63.211.129]
6 9 ms 9 ms 19 ms xe-5-1-0-xcr1.lnd.cw.net [195.2.25.133]
7 33 ms 9 ms 11 ms verizon-gw.lnd.cw.net [195.2.22.130]
8 21 ms 67 ms 59 ms so-1-0-0.XT1.HDN2.ALTER.NET [146.188.14.201]
9 114 ms 25 ms 45 ms so-3-0-0.CR1.DTM1.ALTER.NET [149.227.31.230]
10 24 ms 63 ms 61 ms POS1-0.GW8.DTM1.ALTER.NET [149.227.16.194]
11 141 ms 259 ms 602 ms EA-Mythic.Dortmund.de.ALTER.NET [139.4.234.26]
12 25 ms 24 ms 23 ms 213.71.25.65

Trace complete.

 

[Kayne]

Oh dear that would suggest your problems are coming from the german EA server not your connection

 

[LeBaiton]

Step nr. 3 doesn't look that good either...

 

[Kayne]

I hadnt noticed that one. For reference heres mine from a 6mb connection. With no where near as slow speeds to the german EA servers.

Tracing route to 213.71.25.65 over a maximum of 30 hops

1 <1 ms <1 ms <1 ms 192.168.0.1
2 27 ms 25 ms 26 ms dr3.enhmi.isp.sky.com [89.200.128.42]
3 26 ms 26 ms 25 ms vl193.ar8.enhmi.isp.sky.com [89.200.134.70]
4 27 ms 27 ms 26 ms ldn-b5-link.telia.net [80.239.193.109]
5 52 ms 27 ms 26 ms ldn-bb2-link.telia.net [80.91.247.93]
6 27 ms 27 ms 27 ms ldn-b3-link.telia.net [80.91.245.29]
7 28 ms 27 ms 27 ms xe-6-0-0.BR2.LND9.alter.net [146.188.112.101]
8 43 ms 42 ms 42 ms so-1-0-0.XT2.HDN2.ALTER.NET [146.188.14.205]
9 48 ms 47 ms 48 ms so-2-0-0.CR2.DTM1.ALTER.NET [149.227.30.38]
10 46 ms 46 ms 46 ms POS1-0.GW8.DTM1.ALTER.NET [149.227.16.194]
11 48 ms 48 ms 48 ms EA-Mythic.Dortmund.de.ALTER.NET [139.4.234.26]
12 45 ms 46 ms 46 ms 213.71.25.65

 

[LadyNico]

It's taken a few days, but after ruling out network faults & local RF issues, Virgin tell me:-

(1) my connection has timed out over 3000 times over the last 14 days,

(2) my connection fails to reconnect consistently, and

(3) tomorrow (Tues 22nd Nov) an engineer will visit to repair or replace our Super Hub (which, if their support forums are anything to go by, seems to be a factor in many folks' problems with Virgin)

In the meantime, this is what I'm fighting:-

In fairness to Vermin, I've not had to get shirty, just had to be patient while they wade through the forum posts and wait for them to rule out the usual stuffs. The booking of the engineer was especially speedy - heard from them in the forums today (Monday) and engineer booked for tomorrow (Tuesday).

EDIT: Post-engineer visit and we're told the problem is one of over-utilisation, congestion and/or over-subscription in the area.

He checked something he called "the pit" out on the street and reports that all but a couple of the port taps were on splitters, ours included. He's shifted our line to a port tap which isn't split, but he says that someone across the road only needs to complain about poor service and an engineer will come out and move ours back to a split port tap and put theirs where ours is right now. Rinse & repeat.

This can only get worse because the whole area needs an upgrade to its infrastructure and at present there is none planned for this area.

Time to change ISP. *sigh*

 

[Fluffi]

Nico,

As you are on a 30mb Virgin connection, you are almost certainly using Virgins' own cable infrastructure.
If Virgin have too many subscribers in your area, then you will be getting awful network congestion caused by contention problems, and all bets are off when it comes to network speeds. (This is why ALL ISPs only ever offer connection speeds "up to xx Mbs")

Your connection appears to fall apart between the local Virgin server and the Croydon core server. On a Virgin cable service, this can only be caused by oversubscription (there is also something (possibly temporarliy) going wrong with your hop to the AlterNet Dortmund server - I'm currently pinging 32ms to there).


To be honest, your best bet is probably to look at LLU options (Local Loop Unbundled) in your area.
... 90+% of UK wiring infrastructure is owned by BT, In some areas, BT have opened their exchanges to 3rd-party service providers. This means that a 3rd-party ISP can install its' servers in the BT exchange, but utilise the existing BT wiring to your door.

A LLU provider, like TalkTalk, etc, would probably be able to offer you a better connection than you are getting; simply due to fewer subscribers per exchange. (You should be aware that your connection speed with eg. TalkTalk may well decrease in the future if more people subscribe to the TalkTalk service.)
You should ask the provider what speeds they think you will get, how many other users will be sharing your bandwidth, and whether they are prepared to guarantee a speed (I doubt anyone will answer the last question.)


**NB**

I am not recommending TalkTalk - it was the 1st LLU ISP I thought of.
Sorry I can't offer a more personal service, but although we are a LLU provider, we don't do domestics.

 

[Kayne]

To pick up on Fluffi's post - dont touch TalkTalk they have awful customer services, awful equipment and are just generally awful

 

[dupapa]

im Supprised VM are poor to Europa,

ive been with NTL/virginmedia since the days of dial up access,

currently on 30Meg fiber, living in luton, got 20meg fiber in aylesbury (gf house) and 10 meg fiber in Redbourn (my mums house)

have perfect playing conditions from all premises to uo, has been like this for years now.

cannot fault VM on their internet service, just if you need to speak to them they fail..

oh... i see your oversubscribed

ahh.... ignore my comments then