Vanguard Buffage and the Future of UO

[galefan2004]

Well it seems they overly buffed the Vanguards without even telling players. What were easily soloable has now become almost impossible to solo. I used to bring these things down with just a dog and some mind blast.

Now they seem to change targets when you mind blast them (I never remember that). They also seem to spawn a lot more junk spawn (junk spawn is never a welcome addition to anything even dungeons). They seem to be almost impossible to solo now.

The future of UO seems to be that this game is moving farther and farther away from being the single player MMORPG that attracted the majority of its fans. If I want to get up on my own and go kill the hardest monsters in this game with the right skill, template, gear, pet, etc. I SHOULD be able to do so. If they plan on making this game so focused around groups that you can only do stuff with two or more people then there is a problem. If I wanted to play a group game I would be playing WoW or another game that at least has pugs.

In short, the decision to buff the vanguards after most people already lost interest in the event was a mistake. The trend UO is taking to make everything require groups is a larger mistake. There are many group based games that are much better than UO for PvM. The lure of UO PvM always has been that it is easily soloable if you put enough effort into it. Changing that would be a huge mistake.

 

[Crysta]

You do realize the folly in putting the words "single player" and "MMORPG" together, yes?

 

[galefan2004]

You do realize the folly in putting the words "single player" and "MMORPG" together, yes?

No. The fact that UO was like this for 10 years, and the fact that UO has always been a solo player game lives to a testament that fans actually like it that way. As I said, if I wanted a group based MMORPG then I'd play WoW.

Not all people play MMORPGs to group with people. Some play to actually have fun with friends WHEN THEY WANT TO. FORCED grouping IS NOT ok. Grouping IS ok. Thats what makes MMORPGs dynamic. If you think all UO players are all about grouping then you must surely be blind to what UO was and what it should still be.

 

[gunneroforgin]

i am sorry when they make things to hard to kill it stops being fun and becomes work. I want to have fun.

 

[galefan2004]

i am sorry when they make things to hard to kill it stops being fun and becomes work. I want to have fun.

Before someone accuses me of wanting something for nothing...

They were just fine before. Now they are a joke. They teleport monsters out of buildings that can't open doors. The vanguards themselves are almost impossible to finish off solo. They suddenly started changing targets when casted on. They seem to spawn 2x the spawn (at least).

Hard was ok...they should be hard. Next to impossible solo IS NOT ok though.

 

[NBG]

Just manage to find some spawns and tested the new "buffed" vanguard...

As I have stated before I use my dexxer only on killing vanguards and I don't even have the healing skill....

From the ones I have killed since publish 53.... I see their damage output increase quite abit and spawning packs seems to be around the same as before.

I had not problem at all killing these "buffed" vanguard by myself granted I have run alot more often than I used to. I can still kill them in 2-3 minutes sometimes.

If you are fighting the spawn... then you are doing something wrong if you are the only player there. I would like to state again leave the spawn alone and it will despawn fairly quickly then you will have a window to deal damage or even kill the vanguard before the next spawn timer hits.

 

[galefan2004]

Actually the spawn seems to last a lot longer and before. Maybe this just another example of dexxer love. I refuse to play a warrior character in this game after AoS. I refuse to sink the ammount of gold into a suit that would be required to play a warrior. They were easily done on tamers before this change. Now they seem to be almost impossible to do with tamers. I know "tamers are overpowered and should all be shot", but I play this game so I can do stuff on a tamer. If their goal is to make things harder to do on tamers then on dexxers then I will go play a game where I actually enjoy playing melee type characters and play a rogue.

 

[Heskey]

I'm annoyed for one; the spawn extends to an outreach just north of the docks to where our RP guild (The Baronship of Cove) is; we'll be lined up outside our barracks ready to go on some hunt, only to have a daemon, a lich, a nightmare, and 6 dark wisps spawn just off-screen.

(Bare in mind us RPers only use crafted armour/weapons, no artifacts/talismans/magic jewelry)

 

[galefan2004]

I'm annoyed for one; the spawn extends to an outreach just north of the docks to where our RP guild (The Baronship of Cove) is; we'll be lined up outside our barracks ready to go on some hunt, only to have a daemon, a lich, a nightmare, and 6 dark wisps spawn just off-screen.

(Bare in mind us RPers only use crafted armour/weapons, no artifacts/talismans/magic jewelry)

The whole freaking city of Cove seems to spawn at one time. You used to be able to run through spawn. Now if you even try you are as good as dead unless you have some uber suit you spent way to much gold on. If this is how they plan on making events in the future (throw as much junk as possible at the player) then I don't really see a reason to do any events in the future.

 

[MalagAste]

Sorry for your group...... Glad RP where I come from allows the use of whatever the game gives..... If I can attain it I can use it.... And I do go to doom and aquire riches and priceless artifacts.

On that note..... UO is a MMORPG...... don't forget that.... it should NOT be a solo game... you want solo go console...... and get off my MMORPG.... you want RP...... I know where that's at..... And I don't tell others what they can and can not RP and wear or do on their own character... Though my character may challenge you.... If I were to be limited to less than half the content of the game I'd not play.... But thats me and my opinion.

AS for soloing the Vanguard I do it on my dexer...... Takes a bit of time and effort but it's not impossible..... though in my opinion community is what made this game great..... and community adventures is what it SHOULD be all about..... so go solo in console games.... and if you want to be a part of a great community then join a good or evil guild and have fun with friends..... It's my opinion that dragons, peerless, Vanguard, Shadowlords...... and many other things should NEVER be able to be solo'd EVER no matter what your template. And when these things become soloable then it's time to either get out the nerf stick or buff up the beasts.


Please click the egg/hatchling and help my dragons grow.

 

[Theo_GL]

Actually the spawn seems to last a lot longer and before. Maybe this just another example of dexxer love. I refuse to play a warrior character in this game after AoS. I refuse to sink the ammount of gold into a suit that would be required to play a warrior. They were easily done on tamers before this change. Now they seem to be almost impossible to do with tamers. I know "tamers are overpowered and should all be shot", but I play this game so I can do stuff on a tamer. If their goal is to make things harder to do on tamers then on dexxers then I will go play a game where I actually enjoy playing melee type characters and play a rogue.

Oh man, where to start with you?

First - Tamers =
Gee its just too bad the dev team removed your 'easy button' for the spawn. Tamers should be removed from UO. Its dumb that you can sit behind your pet and eat cheetoes while gathering loot. Man up.

Dexer suit expensive? PLEASE. I could put together a solid dexer suit for 2 mil or less. You dont NEED a jackals to be effective just like you don't need an Orny to survive as a mage. Nice to have - not required.

Regarding taking multiple players - there SHOULD be areas of the game that take multiple players.

There is no reason 100% of the game should be solo'able. You can't solo Vanguards anymore? Either find friends (of course that might be difficult for you) or HUNT SOMETHING ELSE.

The problem with UO is TOO many things have been dumbed down to be solo'ed. Doom, Peerless etc.

There is no problem with one area of the game needing multiple players. I'm sure you have a few shields and swords already. Go somewhere else with your bitter stew and play solo if you don't want to share.

Life is not about equality. Remember that.

 

[galefan2004]

On that note..... UO is a MMORPG...... don't forget that.... it should NOT be a solo game... you want solo go console...... and get off my MMORPG....

IT IS NOT YOUR MMORPG. YOU DO NOT OWN UO. UO has existed for 10 years with very little forced group effort. It should not require grouping now. It should encourage grouping, but it should in no way require grouping. Most MMORPGs are solo based. Even WoW is extremely solo friendly...much more than UO currently is unfortunately.

AS for soloing the Vanguard I do it on my dexer...... Takes a bit of time and effort but it's not impossible.....

I'm back to doing it on my tamer (just killed one), but the extreme ammount of spawn and the lack of time between respawn just means I die way to much now. I think everything in this game can be done on a dexxer. I refuse to make a dexxer. The game mechanics for warrior characters in this game absolutely suck, and I refuse to spend 80 million on a good suit and weapon just so I can start playing a Sampire.

though in my opinion community is what made this game great..... and community adventures is what it SHOULD be all about.....

No and no. This game was made great by solo players like me that brought crap to you and your friends, back in the day, and sold it to you for next to nothing. That should still exist in the game. It should not be all about grouping. Grouping should be an option not a FORCED activity. I've been against anything that required FORCED grouping for the last 8 years in this game. So was a lot of the player base. I would argue that UO sucks for grouping to begin with, so it should simply not be about grouping PERIOD.

so go solo in console games.... and if you want to be a part of a great community then join a good or evil guild and have fun with friends.....

I don't play console games. I kind of like not being able to beat games. I haven't beaten UO in eight years and that is what keeps me playing. I am in a Felucca based PvP guild, and I do plenty with my friends, but I also play a lot more than they do, and sometimes I desire to play by myself.

It's my opinion that dragons, peerless, Vanguard, Shadowlords...... and many other things should NEVER be able to be solo'd EVER no matter what your template. And when these things become soloable then it's time to either get out the nerf stick or buff up the beasts.

Yes and your opinion matters more than mine why exactly? This game was built by people that wanted to solo play. This game was never supported for grouping. This game is still not supported for extensive grouping. All of those things should be soloable by the right template with the right gear given the right skill by the right player.

 

[galefan2004]

Oh man, where to start with you?

First - Tamers =
Gee its just too bad the dev team removed your 'easy button' for the spawn. Tamers should be removed from UO. Its dumb that you can sit behind your pet and eat cheetoes while gathering loot. Man up.

Remove tamers from UO. I will gladly play a game that doesn't suck outside of tamers. Pre-AoS I played a very mean warrior. After AoS I have no desire to sink 100 million into a character just to make it ready to play (countless 120 scrolls, fixed template, weapon, suit). I refuse to play a dexxer. I don't mind playing a mage, but that is only because mages don't really need to sink as much money into gear.

Dexer suit expensive? PLEASE. I could put together a solid dexer suit for 2 mil or less. You dont NEED a jackals to be effective just like you don't need an Orny to survive as a mage. Nice to have - not required.

To do the stuff I do on my tamer solo, you need pretty damn good gear and you almost have to be a Sampire. PLEASE! I won't play a toon that isn't near the top of their game, and with a dexxer the SUIT makes the dexxer the dexxer does not make SUIT. On a tamer, yeah we get to use pets, but other than that we don't have to have a suit to make ourselves good we rely on actual skill instead of tabbing on combat and pressing the same buttons over and over.

Regarding taking multiple players - there SHOULD be areas of the game that take multiple players.

UO should not require FORCED grouping. Grouping should be OPTIONAL.

There is no reason 100% of the game should be solo'able. You can't solo Vanguards anymore? Either find friends (of course that might be difficult for you) or HUNT SOMETHING ELSE.

I have friends. I just don't chose to hunt with them 100% of the time, and the time I'm not hunting with them I want to do something a little more fun then killing sphynx or balrons over and over.

The problem with UO is TOO many things have been dumbed down to be solo'ed. Doom, Peerless etc.

Really? Then explain why the player base started leaving in droves when this BECAME a group based game. Before AoS everything was soloable outside of champion spawns. As this game adds more group content more players leave for games that actually have support for group content and meaningful reasons to group.

There is no problem with one area of the game needing multiple players. I'm sure you have a few shields and swords already. Go somewhere else with your bitter stew and play solo if you don't want to share.

Life is not about equality. Remember that.

I welcome sharing. I don't want to have it all to myself. If someone wants to show up and help me clean out Cove on Legends then PLEASE do so. I just don't feel the need to bother my friends everytime I feel like doing something.

 

[RavenWinterHawk]

Well it seems they overly buffed the Vanguards without even telling players. What were easily soloable has now become almost impossible to solo. I used to bring these things down with just a dog and some mind blast.

Now they seem to change targets when you mind blast them (I never remember that). They also seem to spawn a lot more junk spawn (junk spawn is never a welcome addition to anything even dungeons). They seem to be almost impossible to solo now.

The future of UO seems to be that this game is moving farther and farther away from being the single player MMORPG that attracted the majority of its fans. If I want to get up on my own and go kill the hardest monsters in this game with the right skill, template, gear, pet, etc. I SHOULD be able to do so. If they plan on making this game so focused around groups that you can only do stuff with two or more people then there is a problem. If I wanted to play a group game I would be playing WoW or another game that at least has pugs.

In short, the decision to buff the vanguards after most people already lost interest in the event was a mistake. The trend UO is taking to make everything require groups is a larger mistake. There are many group based games that are much better than UO for PvM. The lure of UO PvM always has been that it is easily soloable if you put enough effort into it. Changing that would be a huge mistake.

ARGH.
So the Vanguards come.
They get whipped.
They get solo'd by you.
They go back and say...

"Fellow vanguards. In case you havent noticed we are getting our arses kicked man."

They improve their armour and skills and come back stronger.


Ah what is wrong with that?

 

[Azazel of LA]

I can still solo the hole spawn , I just arrived in cove and killed everything in like 15 min by myself including vanguard and dread horses.

 

[Dai of GL]

Well it seems they overly buffed the Vanguards without even telling players.

Did you read the publish notes? Everyone so quick to jump down the developers throats, it says in the publish 53 notes that they did. "The Vanguard assault has become heavier" I think the developers are doing a fine job, atleast they are doing something instead of nothing at all.

 

[Azazel of LA]

Did you read the publish notes? Everyone so quick to jump down the developers throats, it says in the publish 53 notes that they did. "The Vanguard assault has become heavier" I think the developers are doing a fine job, atleast they are doing something instead of nothing at all.

Agreed

 

[Emil IsTemp]

Solo? a dog AND dexxer isnt solo... the dog does all the work. You just loot...

The Vangs buffing was in the publish notes.. If you can read this, you can read the publish notes...

Solo in an MMO is possible.. but it is not how the UO player base was formed. Take it from a 10-year... And if you are looking to NOT run into anyone else, i think SWG is a better bet than WoW... unless you like JUST doing quests. See how far you can progress in WoW SOLO...

No you dont need an Orny either to survive as a mage.. FL maybe.. not me..

"This game was made great by solo players like me that brought crap to you and your friends, back in the day, and sold it to you for next to nothing." -Yea good point, i dont need to buy anything from you, i can go out and get it myself. However, ill take some stat scrolls since you can solo harrowers, right?

"This game was never supported for grouping." -How long did you say you were playing again?

WELL, it sounds like your because you have to put forth a little more effort to get your Obsidian blades and shields... Would you like a tissue?

 

[RaDian FlGith]

No. The fact that UO was like this for 10 years, and the fact that UO has always been a solo player game lives to a testament that fans actually like it that way. As I said, if I wanted a group based MMORPG then I'd play WoW.

Actually, no. The fact that UO has been like this for recent years is a testament to its failure, and also has something to do with its lacking in subscription numbers. However, do not confuse recent years with "for 10 years." Ancient Wyrms used to be nigh on impossible to solo, and a great many places in the game you wouldn't dare to tread alone. I remember when going deep into the Terathan Keep meant taking a few of your friends with you. Now, you can solo the balron that people used to fear.

When things are not a challenge, people move on.

UO was never intended to be a single-player MMOG. The DevTeam simply got wishy washy over the years, and instead of building intelligent, difficult content, they've done a horrible job at creating challenges.

Most people would agree (unless being greedy) that not everything in the game should be soloable. The fact that pretty much everything is should be looked at as design failure, not the other way around.

If you wanted to play a single-player friend game... they're called single-player games.

Of course, the lesser the player-base, the more EA Mythic has to cater to the single-player genre... after all, how can you group up if you can't find people to group up with?

The only thing I'll agree with you on is mindlessly chaging an NPC for the sake of changing it... and "adds" don't necessarily equate to "more challenging."

 

[Fizzleton]

they should put something into the game wow has for hunters: e.g., if you heal your pet, you get attention you do not like. tamers sitting around in high luck and doing almost nothing (some vet maybe and - quite shocking - a peace ) is stupid. I like liche and poison strike (making me run for my life) or wisps and wither


well; if you are on a disco tamer, it still is not really a prob


regards

 

[Lord GOD(GOD)]

"a dog AND dexxer isnt solo"

QFT!

"tamers sitting around in high luck and doing almost nothing "

QFT!

 

[phantus]

Most people would agree (unless being greedy) that not everything in the game should be soloable. The fact that pretty much everything is should be looked at as design failure, not the other way around.

So long as we only have 125-175 HP and we don't add monsters that 2 hit or 1 hit kill us this game will always be soloable. The low HP players are stuck with is what drive a stake through the heart of this game for design. It makes for fun PvP battles however and for that reason it can't be changed.

 

[RaDian FlGith]

IT IS NOT YOUR MMORPG. YOU DO NOT OWN UO. UO has existed for 10 years with very little forced group effort. It should not require grouping now. It should encourage grouping, but it should in no way require grouping. Most MMORPGs are solo based. Even WoW is extremely solo friendly...much more than UO currently is unfortunately.

WoW is extremely solo friendly, as long as you never want to see an item of good quality. Sorry, but you're not soloing any of the 70 instances, and you're not soloing any of the high-end raid content. Sure, I can run LBRS on my druid and were it not for the fact that it takes 3 people to summon Emberseer, I'd be able to mostly solo UBRS too. Which would get me nothing but a feeling of nostalgia and the end of my Onyxia attunment. Not a single item that drops in either location would do me any good unless it was BOE and I could sell it to a lowbie or a twink.

However, all of that said, you're remembering fond days that didn't exist. Way back in the days of glory that you seem to think existed 10 years ago, there were plenty of unsoloable things, and the mere fact that you couldn't be in a dungeon without fear of being PKed also kept you in packs. I defy that this "10 years" of UO you're remembering has, in fact, existed for 10 years. I'll give you since shortly after UO:R, but even then, it still wasn't a solo-fest.

No and no. This game was made great by solo players like me that brought crap to you and your friends, back in the day, and sold it to you for next to nothing. That should still exist in the game. It should not be all about grouping. Grouping should be an option not a FORCED activity. I've been against anything that required FORCED grouping for the last 8 years in this game. So was a lot of the player base. I would argue that UO sucks for grouping to begin with, so it should simply not be about grouping PERIOD.

I'm going to go with "No and no and no and no..." This game was not made great by solo players at all. And no one "back in the day" was doing anyone favors of providing vanquishing weapons cheaply. And, uh, no one in their right mind except for PKs and APKs ran around with vanqs on them anyway for fear of losing it to the next big PK (or the thief standing just around the corner).

Grouping should be an option, yes. However, it should be NECESSARY for certain content. If you want to play solo, fine. But do it on the stuff that doesn't require a group. Which, by the way, represents about 99% of UO at present. Oh noes... you might have to group up to get that last 1%.

Here's a river.

Go cry.

Yes and your opinion matters more than mine why exactly? This game was built by people that wanted to solo play. This game was never supported for grouping. This game is still not supported for extensive grouping. All of those things should be soloable by the right template with the right gear given the right skill by the right player.

Because your opinion is grossly based on incorrect assertions.

I could tell you the sky is green and that it was always meant to be green, and my opinion would be worth a lot less because it simply is based on falsehood. You seem to think you have the right to solo-play in a multi-player game. I'm going to guess you also think it's okay to take a wad of $500 bills from the bank in Monopoly because no one saw you do it.

 

[RaDian FlGith]

So long as we only have 125-175 HP and we don't add monsters that 2 hit or 1 hit kill us this game will always be soloable. The low HP players are stuck with is what drive a stake through the heart of this game for design. It makes for fun PvP battles however and for that reason it can't be changed.

In truth, this is an area where UO's design fails horribly, and why the level-based games do much better in the MMO genre.

While your skill set can raise to a 700 cap, your stat base never changes (save for the addition of jewelry, et cetera).

So how does a designer make something challenging without making it so that it one or two-hits you to death? And if something can one-hit you, figure that in a group of 10, 20 seconds later you're all dead... with luck.

Which is why we see so much of this silly "let's spawn easy to kill but very overwhelming numbers of adds and call that creative AI" type of design-work.

In level-based games, as you go up in level, so do your stat points. So when you get to the level 70 content, you have a chance to survive. Dependant upon your class, role, et cetera.

The funny thing is, they could do something similar in UO and at least make it a variable. For every 50 or 100 skill points, raise the stat base. Yes, I'm saying that in the end, you might end up with a character with 700 health or 700 mana, but to make up for it, you make the discrepancy a choice... Mages would want larger mana pools -- they might need an armor spell or two... Whatever... but they'd apply their stats appropriately. Some would go average stats, some would max in others... But the choices would still be there.

It would be a major change to the mechanics, but it could still be done in the context of UO's skill-based system. Then, when you balance that kind of stuff, you can start dropping in monsters in area that do a lot more damage, but aren't 1 and 2 hit wonders (unless that's the goal of a high-end boss monster that you want to FORCE a party to have to down).

There's no reason UO would ever have to abandon the skill-based system (like SWG did), but certainly, if it is to grow from the same silly doldrums that it's in now, some MAJOR creativity and a MAJOR overhaul to the skill-based stat system is required. Otherwise, you'll always have a system where monster power is based on how many hits it kills you in, and the AI and creativity for monsters will always be stagnant.

 

[Fizzleton]

hehe.

One might also try different tactics or templates (soulstoning, yessss) to get over it. Reminds me on playing soccer one day, and a player passed a mate with a nice trick, and the mate was upset and told the trainer "but he tricked me", and the trainer nods and says: "well, he is allowed to do it!"

remembering demon berserkers and the whining "can't kill them"? You can. Find out. Remembering light demons & stuff? "Can't kill!" You could. Or the new dungeons when last expansion came out? "Can't kill! The mobs are too fast/too strong/too anything"! huh. Still caring?

regards

 

[GalenKnighthawke]

1. They did tell us; they just didn't tell us the horrifying specifics.

2. I have it on good authority that the Vanguards are still solo-able, it's just rough. As well it should be!

3. People complained that this invasion was too easy. If you want to get mad at anyone, don't get mad at the team, get mad at your fellow players.

4. The ways in which the spawn is tougher seem to be fun and creative. They are smarter, have more special moves that are specific to their location.

5. The teleporting thing, in addition to being a buff, also appears to be a cheap and dirty way of fixing the "underground spawn" issue that made the event unplayable.

So far, and I'll admit I've only done this once so far today, my only gripe is the apparent lack of new rewards. We UO players are a pretty materialistic bunch, and we generally need rewards to do pretty much anything.

-Galen's player

 

[NBG]

The funny thing I see is running around grabbing berserkers and all of sudden 5-6 of them teleport right ontop of me as I was running hehe.

 

[Dame Judi]

Looks like about 2 out of 3 of our beloved Berserkers now spawning in Nujelm have no prior experience with lamp posts.

They appear to lack the AI to walk around them and, instead, if the player fighting turns the corner just right, actually become stuck and therefore easy kills for archers.

For a monster who can now teleport through solid walls to get at us, this all feels vaguely like the fence fighting there in Moonglow.

 

[Lynk]

OMG I have never seen someone whine so much because they couldn't farm a turn-in item.

Stop complaining.

Dexer suits are easy to make, mage suits are easy to make. You dont' need the uber gear to compete.

QQ your way back to farming swoops.

 

[JC the Builder]

Vanguards appear to be at champion level difficulty. Champions are meant to be brought down by multiple players (even though many can currently be soloed). Trying to say that solo play is being downsized because tough new monsters are being introduced is not correct.

 

[Llewen]

In truth, this is an area where UO's design fails horribly, and why the level-based games do much better in the MMO genre.

The day they make UO a level based game, is the day I quit. Levels are the lazy developers' way of dealing with character advancement. Levels are arbitrary, painfully unrealistic (and yes I like a little realism in my fantasy), and only serve to ensure that you can never do anything fun with anyone who isn't within a level or two of you.

If you like levels, go play something else...

"a dog AND dexxer isnt solo"

QFT!

"tamers sitting around in high luck and doing almost nothing "

QFT!

I was wondering when you would weigh in with your anti-tamer crap. If it looks like a troll, and sounds like a troll, it probably is... a troll... I believe you called me that once, you might want to pay attention to the nonsense you spew before you start chucking stones around your own glass house...

Having said that, I don't agree with the original poster. There should definitely be content in the game that simply cannot be soloed. No one should be able to solo an ancient wyrm, any of the peerless or champs, or Doom, and it would be good if there were also other areas in the game that simply weren't possible to solo. There is so much content in the game that making some of it impossible to solo wouldn't even put a dent in the fun to be had for those that do like to spend some time solo adventuring.

 

[RaDian FlGith]

The day they make UO a level based game, is the day I quit. Levels are the lazy developers' way of dealing with character advancement. Levels are arbitrary, painfully unrealistic (and yes I like a little realism in my fantasy), and only serve to ensure that you can never do anything fun with anyone who isn't within a level or two of you.

If you like levels, go play something else...

Thank you for reading one portion of my post and completely missing the part where I say that UO could adopt an increase in base stat points based on accumulated skill, and have a better stat system than currently exists, WITHOUT losing their skill-based game system.

Not once, EVER, have I suggested that UO become a level-based game. I was simply explaining why UO's current design trend is what it is based on how they approach stats.

But hey... reading the full post for the win, right?

 

[altarego]

Instead of levels, or completely unbalancing the game with a major overhaul, how about this idea:

What if there was a fluid exchange between stats and skills? In other words, if I wanted to lower my total stat cap in order to get a higher total skill cap. Or, vice versa. That way people could specialize more definitively. It would allow for a lot more template variability and no "dexer" or "tamer" or "mage" would ever really be predictable.

 

[Stucky]

I live in a home in fel placed on the cabbage patch in cove... aka where all that stuff spawns. Ive recalled home and died before the lag showed me i was in cove. SO much for being safe within the guard zone!

 

[Beerman72]

Well it seems they overly buffed the Vanguards without even telling players. What were easily soloable has now become almost impossible to solo. I used to bring these things down with just a dog and some mind blast.

Now they seem to change targets when you mind blast them (I never remember that). They also seem to spawn a lot more junk spawn (junk spawn is never a welcome addition to anything even dungeons). They seem to be almost impossible to solo now.

The future of UO seems to be that this game is moving farther and farther away from being the single player MMORPG that attracted the majority of its fans. If I want to get up on my own and go kill the hardest monsters in this game with the right skill, template, gear, pet, etc. I SHOULD be able to do so. If they plan on making this game so focused around groups that you can only do stuff with two or more people then there is a problem. If I wanted to play a group game I would be playing WoW or another game that at least has pugs.

In short, the decision to buff the vanguards after most people already lost interest in the event was a mistake. The trend UO is taking to make everything require groups is a larger mistake. There are many group based games that are much better than UO for PvM. The lure of UO PvM always has been that it is easily soloable if you put enough effort into it. Changing that would be a huge mistake.

I think you give up too easy and complain a bit too much fi you think the Vangaurds are overpowered. With the help of one other person we cleared every town spawn on Atlantic. Two people...thats it. *sighs* Personally I think its too easy.

 

[Cogniac]

(Bare in mind us RPers only use crafted armour/weapons, no artifacts/talismans/magic jewelry)

Ohhhhh, Europa. You and your silly RP rules. You're so cute!

 

[Loquacious Wrath]

Make it harder!

*draws line in sand*

 

[Connor_Graham]

I've tried to stay out of this one, but I can't let it sit any longer. I managed to avoid the T-Map-Two Step-Tirade thread, but this one is just too ridiculous.

Well it seems they overly buffed the Vanguards without even telling players.

It was in the patch notes. If you'd bothered to read them in their entirety, you would have seen it.

What were easily soloable has now become almost impossible to solo. I used to bring these things down with just a dog and some mind blast.

You don't see a problem with a BOSS creature being so easy it can be taken down with almost zero risk to the player? Are you a PvM'r or a farmer? Is there a field of corn or potatoes outside your back door?

Now they seem to change targets when you mind blast them (I never remember that). They also seem to spawn a lot more junk spawn (junk spawn is never a welcome addition to anything even dungeons). They seem to be almost impossible to solo now.

Well God forbid a shard wide event actually require other people from the shard to participate. What's the world coming to?

The future of UO seems to be that this game is moving farther and farther away from being the single player MMORPG that attracted the majority of its fans. If I want to get up on my own and go kill the hardest monsters in this game with the right skill, template, gear, pet, etc. I SHOULD be able to do so.

I'm all for single player action, but this is an EVENT, not permanent game content. Hang on a second...



Sorry, needed to get my popcorn ready since we're starting to get into the drama...

If they plan on making this game so focused around groups that you can only do stuff with two or more people then there is a problem. If I wanted to play a group game I would be playing WoW or another game that at least has pugs.

You don't get the concept of EVENTS do you? They're designed for the ENTIRE shard to participate in. They're not here to stay as permanent content. One time only. You snooze you lose. Early bird gets the worm and all that rot.

In short, the decision to buff the vanguards after most people already lost interest in the event was a mistake.

Did you honestly think the event was going to stay in easy mode? The Shadowlords are trying to take over. The minions are sowing discord. Chicken Little is running around telling people that the sky is falling. The Event is PROGRESSING TOWARDS THE FINAL SHOWDOWN. Surely you didn't think you'd be able to skate through the entire thing with your dog and one spell from the spellbook?

The trend UO is taking to make everything require groups is a larger mistake. There are many group based games that are much better than UO for PvM. The lure of UO PvM always has been that it is easily soloable if you put enough effort into it. Changing that would be a huge mistake.

What trend? A one time only event is a trend?

Wow. My Statistics professors were all wrong....



Every post you've made in this thread shows to me that you expect everything in game to be in easy "Tamer Mode" for you to solo with a dog or greater dragon. Sorry to disappoint you, but most people that participate in high end PvM actually do so for a challenge. Not so they can plant the seeds and wait for the crops to grow so they can farm the hell out of something.

snap:


Oh, and btw.....


They're still soloable. Maybe you should try something other than easy mode and see if another template would work. You'd be surprised at what variety can add to the game...


I'm done now. I'm heading outside since I'm not worried about the sky falling...

 

[RaDian FlGith]

Instead of levels, or completely unbalancing the game with a major overhaul, how about this idea:

What if there was a fluid exchange between stats and skills? In other words, if I wanted to lower my total stat cap in order to get a higher total skill cap. Or, vice versa. That way people could specialize more definitively. It would allow for a lot more template variability and no "dexer" or "tamer" or "mage" would ever really be predictable.

I don't think what I suggested would completely unbalance the game. There would still be a finite number of skill and stat points anyone could have, it would simply increase the pool on the stat points so that there could be some variance.

What it would mean is that a fully developed character with 700 total *true* skill points would have a larger stat point base than a newly formed character with 100 total *true* skill points. As the character got closer and closer to 700, their base stats would increase, and they could assign them as we do today (if you can call what we do today "assigning" them).

This does several things:

(1) Gives a much greater variance in character templates.
(2) Creates a significant difference between a new character and a developed character, but not so great a difference that it's impossible to attain in short order.
(3) Allows developers the ability to create challenges suited to different potential templates, as well as create creatures with a greater variety (instead of "oh noes, he's got 150 hit points max, and most only have 95, and wham, he's dead in one hit because this monster is uber!").
(4) Creates the ability for template roles in groups -- and yeah, groups are something UO is sorely in need of returning to so that this once great community-based game can start putting some M back in MMOG. And while some might argue this gets close to "classes," we've already got "classes," we just call them something different: Dog Archers, Focus Mages, et cetera. This simply gives it a greater variance.

Would it take getting used to? Yeah.
Would it need to be widely playtested before being implented? Yeah.
Do I think the overall response would be positive? Yeah... otherwise I wouldn't waste my fingers on it.

 

[RaDian FlGith]

Did you honestly think the event was going to stay in easy mode?

You know... when I first went into the rift and found myself having troubles with soloing the stuff there (mostly because I'm probably on outdated templates), I started getting a bit upset at first. Then I realized it's because I'm so used to soloing whatever I want that it was out of character for the game as a whole.

And I thought to myself...

GOOD! It's about time!

My only gripe is that they need to work on new, challenging mechanics, and "hits harder" != "challenging."

 

[RavenWinterHawk]

NEWS

Vanguards just quit UO.

They left the following letter...

"We are tired of this ridiculous sham of sending us out to fight these uber buffed human player characters. We cant solo them. They are just uber item'd up players. Where is the fun. We quit. Needless to say we are sick of the "super dragon" bitting the crap out of us while the player stands there. And the whinning when we do fight back. Brother! We double quit."

 

[tnynyn]

^^ lol

 

[GirlPower]

"a dog AND dexxer isnt solo"

QFT!

"tamers sitting around in high luck and doing almost nothing "

QFT!

not necessarily nothing...some might be posting here while thier pets kill stuff.

 

[Thrand Graywolf]

Looks like about 2 out of 3 of our beloved Berserkers now spawning in Nujelm have no prior experience with lamp posts.

The thing about this that I can't understand is that better AI does currently exist in the game.

Go to Old Haven, find one of those spectral spellbinders and try to get it stuck like you can most things. You can't...they'll go far out of their way to get around obstacles that would have most monsters scratching their heads.

Why that little critter has so much better AI than the big bad meanies is just beyond me.

 

[Doomsday Dragon]

Oh man, where to start with you?

First - Tamers =
Gee its just too bad the dev team removed your 'easy button' for the spawn. Tamers should be removed from UO. Its dumb that you can sit behind your pet and eat cheetoes while gathering loot. Man up.

Dexer suit expensive? PLEASE. I could put together a solid dexer suit for 2 mil or less. You dont NEED a jackals to be effective just like you don't need an Orny to survive as a mage. Nice to have - not required.

Regarding taking multiple players - there SHOULD be areas of the game that take multiple players.

There is no reason 100% of the game should be solo'able. You can't solo Vanguards anymore? Either find friends (of course that might be difficult for you) or HUNT SOMETHING ELSE.

The problem with UO is TOO many things have been dumbed down to be solo'ed. Doom, Peerless etc.

There is no problem with one area of the game needing multiple players. I'm sure you have a few shields and swords already. Go somewhere else with your bitter stew and play solo if you don't want to share.

Life is not about equality. Remember that.

I wasn't going to bother registering on the temp forums I was going to wait until the original forums were fixed but I had to reply.

I totally agree with the above quote for starters.

Second galefan2004 you are a fool. UO was NEVER a solo game and when this game was released you HAD to play as a group NOT SOLO.

You were obviously never around before AoS redefined what the game was all about. Before AoS you didn't solo a damn thing because you had crap gear and would get ripped to pieces in the blink of an eye. You never went solo back in the day because a whole group of reds would gladly remove every spec of loot you held the second you left town because there was no such thing as insurance.

So stop talking like you know what it was like back then because I do and I DO NOT remember this as a solo game.

Only now are players able to solo things with ease and it has really hurt the quality of game play. Yes I can solo these and no they are not challenging. berserker daemons were a much better fight solo took longer and hit harder much much harder. Shadowlords were also something you couldn't easily solo but it could be done. I know because I did it and all were killed on my dexxer.

But guess what? It sucks that I can solo these things because in my opinion as others have said I find it ridiculous that a single player could defeat something like a shadowlord as they were supposed to be all powerful. Yeah real tough aren't they one guy can kill them without a problem... LAME!

So get over the fact you obviously suck at this game no one cares if you can or can't solo these stop crying about it because no one wants to hear it.

IF YOU DON'T LIKE THE GAME THE WAY IT IS DON'T PLAY IT ANYMORE!

 

[Llewen]

Thank you for reading one portion of my post and completely missing the part where I say that UO could adopt an increase in base stat points based on accumulated skill, and have a better stat system than currently exists, WITHOUT losing their skill-based game system.

What I was objecting to was your suggestion that a level based character development system is in any way superior to a skill based system. In my opinion level based character advancement is inferior in every way to a skill based system, with one exception, it is easier on game developers to design linear game content when level based character development is the basis of that content.

And to be honest, I wasn't exactly sure what you were getting at with stats development. Under the current system they develop as well as you train your stats, so I must confess, I don't get exactly what you are saying, unless you simply want it to be more extreme than it is. If you are saying that though, that is one of the things I most object to in level based character development systems, the thought that a human could be stronger or have more "hit points" than a bear, is ridiculous, let alone a dragon or a giant.

Again, it is a system for lazy game developers. Higher hit points at higher skill levels are supposed to simulate that a person is harder to hit, etc., as they become more skilled. Well if you want to do that, simply make the character harder to hit, with skills like parry, or higher weapon skills, or a dodge skill, you don't give the character more "hit points" than God - game design like that is simply sloppy, and shows nothing except a lack of imagination and initiative on the part of the designers...

 

[Sarphus]

I like how challenging vangards are. I don't see people soloing them as much, which leaves more of them for me.

As for the tamer bashers... Try playing a tamer if you think it's all about spammming all kill (because that viewpoint is horribly flawed). I doubt there's a single tamer basher out there that is even a decent at playing a tamer character. I guess "can't beat em... discount them and say they're lame" is the flavor of the day. You've got issues... I've got tissues.

I wonder how many of these tamer bashers are playing archers. I mean it's cearly a lot easier to command a pet than to kite monsters repeatedly all day long. Kiting is really challenging *rolls eyes*. Oh and that ability to cherry pick spawns out of event content is really tough too lol

I'm not saying tamers are weak... don't get me wrong at all... they are balanced. You can do things strategically to make your tamer extremely effective; just like every other character type. My tamer is certainly not my most effective character in all aspects of UO.

 

[oro]

Umm there have always been things unsoloable in UO.. There was a time when Balrons were next to impossible alone.. Had to be a GM mage to take on a deamon for that matter..

 

[MaryForUo]

1 - close your pc
2- find a store
3 -buy a playstation or xbox
4 - have fun!

 

[packrat]

Just got my PS3 and love it.. The graphics are awesome on it.. cant wait to play something different.