Doing the math, i spent around $2,000 to get my shard shields... the years add up.
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There are the shard shields from vet rewards, which are account bound, and the tokens from the Origin store, which are not. I may have accidentally referred to the tokens as shields--they are acquired differently but they do the same thing. Sorry for the confusion.
A token is $19.99 at the Origin store: https://www.origin.com/en-us/store/...ltima-online-character-transfer-code-ANW.html
I'm glad i'm not the only one who thinks this.
I believe folks need to stop with the Mesanna fanboy/fangirl rah rah rahing I have been seeing over the years. I don't really think shes any better then anyone else that we have had helming the game. If anything she seems really condescending.
Anyway, I am only playing again to tide me over till the WoW xpac and I have seen and heard nothing that really makes me feel like I need to stay. I am not excited about the content and I have no faith in this so called "enthusiastic" handful of folks still running the game. Nothing of note was really answered in this "state of uo" address. If this is the state of the game then its not a good state at all.
Seems more like old timer online then ultima online these days.
Both. The argument in a number of threads is that the vet shard shields are imbalancing because they're supposedly "free." Riyanna mentioned someone who claims to have bought $2000 worth of transfers last year, which I flatly don't believe.
It's scary how right you might be about this....
Made me go and have a look at the other MMORPG I used to play...10 seconds were enough. It reminded me of the 200 or 200+ levels and skill levels you have grind non stop so you can afterwards continue grinding some more. It was a pretty crappy game anyway. I still have a look in their forum once in a while only to find out more and more servers merging. The game had it's day and is now dying at an alarming rate. That's F2P for you....suck in all the $$$ ASAP and then kill it to move on to the next money sucker!...At least this one is like that, I'm sure other people will have different opinions about other F2P games out there.
UO is still around and I have found out literally hundreds of free UO servers out there. There are even websites that compile them to select the top 200. I do not want to promote free ilegal servers in any way, I'm just trying to make a point....How much of an impact has this game have that so many people still play it, legally or not?
At least it seems the population here is kind of stable....ish.
Anyway enough rambling out of me.
Perhaps, but having run probably the largest vendor mall on Oceania for the longest time prior to me taking a 2 yr hiatus, I found when I returned that Luna had become a ghost town, most houses contain no vendors, nearly ALL players transport their stuff to Atlantic for sale as our population is so small and the only money to be made is on Atlantic. The only thing making this possible is the freedom and zero cost to transport stuff to Atlantic generated by these tokens from shard shields. The situation was so bad that I ended up developing chars on Atlantic and now run three vendors there just to be able to sell my own stuff and have to rely on 'others' who have shields to get my stuff there and get stuff back to me. Do I want to sell my stuff on Atlantic, no, but given that all the money on our shard ends up there, people forced to buy stuff there to transport back, and people taking their stuff there to sell, the market and vendors on our home shard has been totally destroyed. The 'free' trip once a month also has made it so older accounts are now free to 'farm' our shard to their hearts content as they know once a month they can transfer their stuff over.
As for holiday trading, that is the most noticeable area where shard shields has impacted. For YEARS the way to get the 'rare' gifts was to xshard trade each holiday period and take pot luck with your traders on getting that 'rare' in the gifts you exchanged, bag for bag, 14 on my shard for 14 on your shard etc. Now due to the fact that older accounts are spewing out the transfer tokens each month, people know if they sort through their gifts on each account to find the rares, they have a good chance of hooking a lift with someone to get it back to their homeshard or shift it themselves if they are old enough. Instead of the bag for bag trading that happened for years it has now resulted in people only wanting to trade if you have a 'rare' to give them, it has certainly had a HUGE impact and totally changed the way this trading used to be done.
Shard shields have created an Us and Them situation and is unbalancing the economies, especially on small shards, whether anyone wants to admit it or not. If I want to transfer every month to a half dozen shards it would cost me 300 bucks or more in tokens if I had to buy them. Older accounts get it for free. When a large proportion of the player base has to 'pay' for something and others are getting it for free then there is unbalance. You pay to play the game, vet rewards should be nice to have items, but not game change items, which these ARE.
If I was a new player and just joining I would in all likelihood quit. I would find that to have the same advantage and flexibility to play multiple shards and move my stuff from to here or there would take me 15 years and would decide it wasn't worth it.
It was bad enough when you had to wait x number of years to use a leather dye tub or pick a tiger as a mount etc, but at least it wasn't game changing. The shard shields are game changing in a HUGE way.
This is the worst part of shard shields if you didn't have a way to get gold on ATL and transfer it back the game was over.
Don't blame the sellers -- blame yourselves, for not offering enough to buy the items.
One great thing about shard shields is that I no longer get ripped off with getting extra holiday gifts, nor do I incur high search costs finding someone who will trade. I can get my extra goodies on my schedule.
Another benefit of shard shields is that item count was lowered on non-main shards, when I and others brought old holiday gifts back to our main shards to turn in for points.
Were you around when the first vet rewards were introduced? A number of people didn't like ethereal mounts at all, making the same "game change" argument you are. The biggest opponents I noticed weren't even the "It's so unfair I have to wait 36 months" crowd, but certain PvPers who could no longer gank someone who hadn't yet bought or received a new horse. Ethereal mounts were completely game-changing for the time, because if someone died and had his horse killed, he couldn't just get ressed by a friend and jump back into the fray at mounted speed.
I have to use at least two vet rewards for just one round once a month. One trip a month is really game-changing? That's $40 that the game wouldn't have gotten in the first place, and it's encouraged a number of people to keep their oldest accounts open. If anything, your criticism should fall on the likes of this person who claimed $2000 in transfer tokens last year. If you want to claim "imbalancing," he's done as muc has 25 vets with 14-year accounts.
I have laid out the economic explanation of why shard shields are balancing, because they equalize prices and supply among shards people can transfer from. Why are you so opposed to someone, who may or may not be an Atlantic native, offering more money on there because he wants an item more than someone on Origin? Why are you so opposed to a seller getting more money from such a player who is willing to offer more?
Do you really play games with the frustration that others preceding you, who have played a very long time and have paid a lot more money into each long-term account, can possibly have more than you can for a good while? UO is a game that by design takes time and money to grow into, and why shouldn't veterans get an advantage for having put in so much money? There's a point at which mounts and house decorations aren't enough.
As I've pointed out time and time again, there's nothing preventing any newer player from buying transfer shields, and spending far less than someone who's paid at least $1680 to get a free trip once a month.
I have plenty of money to 'buy' items, the fact is they are not on our shard to BUY, they are shipped off to Atlantic as a matter of course now due to the much larger population.
How on earth can you get 'ripped off' getting extra holiday gifts. Extra gifts are free, there is no 'rip off' involved. How do you 'incur costs' finding someone to trade. It has never cost me or any of the people I trade with a single cent. The fact people have shard shields and free trips to take all their non-main shard gifts back to home to get clean up points just again exemplifies the fact that it unbalances, those who don't have 12 or more free transfers a year have to 'pay' to do the same thing if they need to buy transfer tokens or cannot get those clean up points on chars on their home shard. As for item counts being lowered, please, what a ridiculous claim, characters logged out with items in their backpacks add nothing to server load. Seriously. *shakes head*
No, but I am hardly a newb, I have been around over 12 years. And I can imagine that ethereal mounts were totally unbalancing and game changing when they were originally introduced as they actually WERE game changing. Any player who has their game altered due a vet reward, and I can well imagine that a person who could get the horse at 3 years and no longer had to find a vet to rez had a much much improved advantage in pvp over those who had to find a vet to heal their mount. Hence it was actually acknowledged by the devs and is why we see the introduction of 'the charger of the fallen' that could be used by any aged char to level the playing field, either obtained by promotion or now by purchasing a legacy token.
The 'GAME CHANGE' argument is actually valid if it is a game changer, it doesn't make it untrue because it happened years ago as well. It just shows that some developers just don't learn by past mistakes, and with the introduction of shard shields they again created a game changer that impacts negatively on the majority and especially NEW players, at least ethereal mounts were only a 3 year wait, this is 15 years, and work it out, if I want to transfer once a month for 15 years (180 trips) as a new player to have the same advantage, I would need to pay $49.98 (there and back) per trip, a total of $8996.40 over 15 years, that is way over the cost of paying the sub each month for the same period. Yet you say this isn't an imbalance or a game changer?
Sorry, but it is a case of I have it and won't admit it is a huge game changer and money saver for ME, and touch luck for those of you who are new or have years to wait til you get the same advantage that some dev in their non-infinite wisdom has introduced to the game and given some at the expense of everyone else.
My understanding is once you have 'selected' your shard shield from the vet reward gump and lock it down in your house, it then produces one token every month for you to use in perpetuity. You need 2 shields as a minimum (your home shield and another shard so that you can go and return at nil cost) every year after that you could select another shard, and 'add' a station to your journey. So if your home shard is Atlantic, then you could go to Catskills and back every month the first year, then say Catskills, Lake Superior and back the second year, every month and so on. If you have a number of rewards still available the first time you 'pick' (eg I currently have 8 vet rewards to pick on my main account) you could 'start' off with a seven shard hop every month, the equivalent of using 8 tokens to go and return. You do not have to use TWO VET REWARDS every month. You use two tokens that the vet rewards give you free each month.
One trip a month is game changing. As I said, for someone who has to 'pay' the equivalent it would cost them $49.98 per MONTH for a two stop trip (off shard and back). Damn right it is game changing and is worth more in actual real life dollars than the cost for the year of subs. If the shard shield gave out a free transfer token twice a year I would think that was a great vet reward, saving the player $50 bucks a year by allowing a free transfer or if they didn't want to use it the ability to 'sell' the transfer token to anyone. Transfer tokens used to retail in uo gold on my shard for around 12-16 million prior to the rewards, and so having a reward that gave you 2 tokens worth say on average 30 mil a year would of been really valuable. Certainly worth a LOT more than what you can sell the average vet reward. There are no other vet rewards that would guarantee a 30 mil profit every year ad infinitum. All other vet rewards you can sell ONCE. A transfer shield like that would of been reasonable.
I have no idea what makes you think I am frustrated with what others have got. I have 'billions' both on my homeshard and Atlantic. It is NOT about what I have or haven't got. The topic at hand is whether or not the introduction of shard transfer shields to 15 year vets has created an imbalance in the game. In my view it has. If it hadn't why the hell do I have to chase down people continuously to move stuff for me from Oce to Atlantic each month. If there was NO benefit to it I can tell you now I certainly wouldn't bother doing it. DUE TO THE IMBALANCE created by shard shields and the fact that as I stated nearly 99% of all high end items are now shipped offshard, I am forced to do it to remain competitive. As I said I have been around for over 12 years hardly a newb. If I was a newb however, and saw the situation as it currently is, I would probably quit as I wouldn't want to have to pay $600 a year or more to perform the same tranfers that those before me get for free, and the thought of playing catch up for 15 years on this kind of game changing vet reward would not grab me at all.
Your mathematics needs some work is all I can say. To do the equivalent for me (ie go to Atlantic and return) , I would need to purchase two transfer tokens at $24.99 each per month, so $49.98 per month $599.76 (+ tax and cc costs) per year. You didn't pay $1680.00 to get a free trip once a month, you paid that to play UO for 15 YEARS. It is moronic to suggest otherwise. Fact is you played for probably 12-13 years and that reward didn't even exist. For new players that started tomorrow, they would have to pay 4 times more than your sub's for the 15 years to be competitive not including their subs for every year they played to catch up.
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That's still because you aren't offering enough and/or making it known you would pay the same as elsewhere. Think about it logically: why else would someone go through the trouble and expense of shipping an item to Atlantic if you were already there to buy the item for the same price?
Holiday gifts may be "free," but if someone takes mine and runs, then I have lost items. That's called being ripped off, and it happened too often when I was cross-shard trading. If a little boy in a neighborhood won a bike in a raffle, and it was stolen by someone who was going to trade for it, don't you think the boy was robbed?
I incur costs by having to find someone who will trade with me. Time is a cost, as any beginning economics student learns.
Characters' items when logged out don't add to "server load?" What reality do you live in? Every item on every character counts toward a shard database's items, whether or not the character is logged in.
You clearly don't understand database architecture. There are two different things that you are confusing. "Server load" is what is active. Item count, however, is whether or not a character is logged in. Think about it: if items when a character is logged out don't count toward "server load," then nearly every last byte of UO's storage problems could be solved by giving us infinite bank boxes.
Yeah. How about you "Seriously," stop shaking your head, and listen to someone who can teach you something. Duh.
So there we have it. You can't get transfer shields and don't want anyone else to have them either.
You half-understand, then. You get it that people adapted, then got used to, new items that changed how the game works. The items, they found, were not as "unbalancing" as some claimed. But you still don't understand that what some accused of "unbalancing" in fact equalized certain types of play, and that they were genuine rewards for account longevity.
Here's a little UO history for you: when ethereal mounts were introduced, pets could not be ressed. Are you really sure you've been around 12 years? July 2002 is when pet bonding was introduced. Before then, if you died and lost a horse, you had to buy a new one. If you were red, you had to get a new mount transferred.
Your math is completely off for the simple fact that you can't get transfer shields until an account is 14 years old. It's not until an account gets quite old, as four of mine are, that it gains any advantage.
You are also completely confused about why shields balance supply and demand. More items on Atlantic, as has been pointed out numerous times and is readily observed, actually drive prices lower than other shards. Greater supply, unchanged demand, lower prices -- this is first-day Econ 101 stuff.
I never said it takes two vet rewards every month, and you knew that. You can stop intentionally misrepresenting me now.
You are correct on how the shields work in giving tokens, but you keep forgetting that a player must pay at least $1680 into an account to get to that point. That's hardly a great deal.
[/quote]One trip a month is game changing. As I said, for someone who has to 'pay' the equivalent it would cost them $49.98 per MONTH for a two stop trip (off shard and back). Damn right it is game changing and is worth more in actual real life dollars than the cost for the year of subs. If the shard shield gave out a free transfer token twice a year I would think that was a great vet reward, saving the player $50 bucks a year by allowing a free transfer or if they didn't want to use it the ability to 'sell' the transfer token to anyone. Transfer tokens used to retail in uo gold on my shard for around 12-16 million prior to the rewards, and so having a reward that gave you 2 tokens worth say on average 30 mil a year would of been really valuable. Certainly worth a LOT more than what you can sell the average vet reward. There are no other vet rewards that would guarantee a 30 mil profit every year ad infinitum. All other vet rewards you can sell ONCE. A transfer shield like that would of been reasonable.[/quote]
Again, I have explained why your math is wrong. And why are you bringing up price? I can't sell the tokens.
If you really have all this gold, then what's your problem? You could easily buy transfer tokens as you need.
Note: transfer shields are for 14-year accounts. It would help if you knew the basic facts here.
The more you rant about "imbalancing," the more you demonstrate your frustration at being a have-not. Wait a couple more years, and then what will you do: will you have no problem taking the tokens yourself, or will you be principled and refuse to use them? Will you be the kind who changes an opinion once getting possession of something?
Seriously, show us a single new player -- or any player, of any play length, who quit because someone has shard transfer shields. I challenge you to present one verifiable person.
It "needs work" because you can't understand it, and you're going by the wrong number. Shard transfers are still $19.99, one way.
My oldest account was eligible to use shard transfers as soon as they were announced, but that isn't germane to anything here. So what if it's a bit of gravy for me, after having paid quite a lot for the meal? What's that to you? Why do you have to be so jealous?
If the local sandwich shop has a rewards program, people consider how much of 20 paid-for sandwiches went to paying for a "free" one. Someone may think, "Well I didn't pay to get that free sandwich, I was paying for the sandwiches anyway," not realizing that the eatery had long since factored in the cost of giving a freebie. The Devs most definitely considered the cost of not giving a very nice 14-year vet rewards, namely that some players may close down an old account. Instead, it's perhaps the one item in the game, other than a polar bear or tiger, that encourages people to keep paying. You ignore that for the sake of getting to that level sometime, players will keep paying for little-used accounts to continue aging, so there's hardly paying to "play."
You accused me of taking a bad tone, when I wasn't, but you use words like "moronic"? Yeah. Your sanctimony certainly "echoes" through this hall.
I noticed you said nothing further about your absurd claims of transfers destroying a shard's "long-standing communities and individual character." Perhaps you realized that times change, and a shard's particular identity even without transfers is far from a constant thing.
And here I'll state again, what should be a very simple economics lesson on the balancing act:
It's a very simple concept once you open your mind to what trade does, particularly when opportunities open that hadn't existed before, all because two people started buying and selling across great distances. Greater supplies on Atlantic bring down prices. Reduced supplies on a small shard will bring up prices there, and eventually they would meet in the middle.
You ignored my simple and very earnest questions. Why are you so opposed to someone, who may or may not be an Atlantic native, offering more money on there because he wants an item more than someone on Origin? Why are you so opposed to a seller getting more money from such a player who is willing to offer more?
And why do you think it's so wrong for players to transfer to a quieter shard, where they won't have to compete with others for resources or wait turns? So what if they're "farming"? That's what they want to do. If they can use legal game mechanics to earn more gold, by supplying people on other shards like Atlantic who are willing to pay more money, so what? Why is that so harmful to you?
And here I'll state again, what should be a very simple economics lesson on the balancing act:
If I can sell my widgets locally for no more than $5, but I could for $15 on the other side of the country, then for $5 per unit in transportation costs I might initially ask $14. The sellers on the other side of the country getting $15 then drop their price to compete, and it stabilizes at, say, $12. In my locality, people would have to start offering more to get my business. In the end it brings me more profit, profit is reduced for those who were charging more on the other side of the country, the lower price means a greater consumer surplus for buyers on the other side of the country, and buyers local to me have a reduced consumer surplus. All extremes are brought to the middle.
It's a very simple concept once you open your mind to what trade does, particularly when opportunities open that hadn't existed before, all because two people started buying and selling across great distances. Greater supplies on Atlantic bring down prices. Reduced supplies on a small shard will bring up prices there, and eventually they would meet in the middle.
You ignored my simple and very earnest questions. Why are you so opposed to someone, who may or may not be an Atlantic native, offering more money on there because he wants an item more than someone on Origin? Why are you so opposed to a seller getting more money from such a player who is willing to offer more?
And why do you think it's so wrong for players to transfer to a quieter shard, where they won't have to compete with others for resources or wait turns? So what if they're "farming"? That's what they want to do. If they can use legal game mechanics to earn more gold, by supplying people on other shards like Atlantic who are willing to pay more money, so what? Why is that so harmful to you?
We shouldn't need to be yelling in chat continuously for items, we should have an economy where we can buy stuff gathered and earned on the shard on vendors on our shard. I may want a tangle and ask in chat to find the response 'oh i sent all mine to atlantic last week' or alternatively ' I can get more on atlantic for it' and even when you offer more than the going rate the response is well if you are prepared to pay xyz then I am sure I will get more on atlantic. Come and live on a small shard now without having the ability to transfer items every month and bring stuff back, spend 6 months a shard and you will soon find out about 'items' available. As a merchant myself I don't bother stocking stuff on my vendor, i ship it like everyone else as got tired of waiting for the 'one' time when someone on my shard 'may' want it. Prior to transfer shields this just didn't happen.
You obviously never learned the first time about what to do if someone rips you off on a xshard trade if it happened 'too often' as you stated above. Firstly it was common practice to use the safe transfer list on the forum, if trading with a new player for the first time you don't trade all gifts but one for one. If you failed to follow those basic principles then you probably deserved to get ripped off. You get a bunch of traders off the 'safe' transfer list, and use the same people year after year who have been vouched for by other members of the trading community. I have traded between 21 and 35 gifts per shard for pretty much every gift offering there is for 10 years or so. I was 'ripped' off as you put it once, the first year I started. I learned really quickly on how to NOT ever get ripped off again, and I haven't been. If you didn't learn that I guess it is your fault.
Hmm turn ICQ on, put a post on forum, and wait for someone to icq you. Hardly a massive amount of time. And if you are a professional holiday trader you already have an established trader list that you can use year by year. Doesn't take any time at all. But if you seriously want to say that finding someone to 'trade' with takes so much time then so be it. The argument is not actually about xshard trading or time, but about how the use of shard shields has totally destroyed the one for one bag trades that were a UO staple when it came to xshard trading. If you don't like the time fine, it has nothing to do with the fact that those FEW who can transfer monthly now have the upper hand in being able to shift gifts from off home shard to home for NIL cost as opposed to those who do NOT have that luxury. You keep trying to blow smoke over the actual reason for this conversation, and actually reinforce my suggestion that being able to transfer stuff stops you getting ripped off and saves you 'time' as opposed to the rest of us without that ability, so basically you add weight to my argument.
Server load has very little to do with data base storage. No doubt the items are 'in the data base' but they do not affect server load if the accounts are inactive. The amount of people logging into a game constitutes the server load. It is demonstrated when you log in and have no problem moving etc but when another 2000 people log in the whole game becomes like clag glue, or when you have a gazillion people logged in for eg EM events. But again, the fact those of you with transfer shields have the ability to move your gifts for free to your home shard for tossing in the bin to gain clean up points, and remove said 'items' from the game, when the rest of us don't again adds weight to the argument that they are unbalancing in allowing you to do what others can't for free each month. That is the topic.
LOL seriously? I transfer every month by using friends. I have fully developed characters on both Atlantic and Oce and quite a few other servers. When I am old enough to use shields I will, until then I will do what I am doing. Do I want to transfer each month to compete now? Not particularly, however there is little choice given the undue advantage the free tokens offer. I am just lucky I am a vet and have a few good friends who transfer for me. New players or younger players may not have this advantage. Of course I will use em when I can and I would expect anyone who can currently get them to actually USE them, you would be a moron not to. That doesn't change the fact that the introduction of Shard Transfer shields as a vet reward totally UNBALANCED the way the game is now played. I see them for what they are, obviously you are worried that if the dev's realise what an imbalance they have made to the game they may alter them in some way. It has effected the smaller shards in a very negative way by people using them to 'farm' our shards, for all our high end and EM items to be moved to Atlantic for sale the second they are awarded, it has negatively affected those who do not have them when it comes to portions of the game such as xshard trading. The cost of transfer tokens to do the same thing is $600 per year, no other vet reward has come close to that in real life dollar worth, let alone worth in game in being able to farm on whatever shard you want, whenever you want.
Having an ethy and not having an ethy is a huge game changer and is unbalancing, hence why chargers of the fallen were introduced, to actually redress this. Stuff like dye tubs, and statue makers and other vet rewards did NOT change how you played, sure you couldn't dye your leather for a few years but that was not game changing. Even now tho the devs realise that making people wait for that kind of thing is in general detrimental to the game, hence why they changed it so that players could 'use' items although not 'pick' them. The advantage to the vet is they get to make the 'selection' and can sell the item if they wish, or keep it if not, if people don't want to 'wait' for a particular vet reward they can buy em. Not so with the transfer shields. Another major difference.
No idea what you are on about. 14-15 yrs so what? I know how old you have to be. To get your first shield you need to be 14, to get the second you will be 15. (this assumes you don't have a stockpile of unselected rewards to be able to pick up both in the 14th year) my math is fine. You need two shard shields to get the TO shard and RETURN shard shields. Hence 15 yrs. My point above was if a new player wanted to COMPETE with a vet in being able to farm shards, transfer gifts, transfer EM rewards from playing different shards just to get em and flog on their home shard, buy stuff low on one shard to sell high on another, like is done to the players on my shard by some unscrupulous traders or to just sell all stuff on Atlantic for the most profit then if they started tomorrow they would need to wait 15 yrs til they could do it or buy transfer tokens for the next 15 years. Hence 49.98 a month for 12 months for 15 yrs = 8996.40 plus the monthly sub to play over the same time period, so say your quoted $1680.00 in $10676.00 in total. You didn't HAVE to compete with those players transferring monthly for the first what, 12 or so years of your gameplay because they didn't exist. New players have to compete with YOU from day one. Yet you still want to claim that the abilities you have (which I just mentioned above) do not give you a HUGE advantage when it comes to every day game play? Seriously? I am all for vet rewards, but not when they offer such a HUGE imbalance in overall game play.
We are not talking about first day economics so your attempt to patronize me is pretty wasted. We are talking about whether or not shard transfer shields as vet rewards have created an imbalance. The only people who benefit from supply and demand are those that can part take in the transferring once a month, so you and your 4 old accounts are well placed in that regard. Gee you can do 4 transfers a month, lucky you. However the player that started last year or 3 years ago will need to wait an additional 12 yrs or more to avail themselves of what you consider to be cheaper prices (I don't agree with that premise) on Atlantic, lucky them. You are wrong in that prices on Atlantic are cheaper due to all the stuff flocking there. That is actually untrue, I know I sell stuff cheaper on my shard than what I do on Atlantic because the player base is much smaller and vendor sales so few and far between the vendor fees will KILL you on any high end item hence I expressly take stuff there as I know I can charge a LOT more for it than I can get for it on my shard and sell it ten times quicker due to the population there. If you look at the vendor sites regularly as I DO you will note that items on Atlantic are generally MORE expensive than other shards. It is why the players on smaller shards take their stuff there, there is more population, a lot more 'buyers' and more competition for goods. Hence you can charge MORE. It has been that way for years and I expect will continue to be that way. Items on my shard for Years were a LOT cheaper than on Atlantic, still are if you can find them, however, as stated you can't generally find items as they are all shipped to Atlantic.
You said and I quote: "I have to use at least two vet rewards for just one round once a month." I corrected YOUR misstatement I was not misrepresenting you. Just pointing out that you do not use two vet rewards a month but use the tokens given freely by two shard shields. You made it sound like it was costing you vet rewards to have your monthly vacation to other shards when in fact the vet reward is a one off and gives you token FOREVER for the cost of ONE/TWO vet reward pics ONCE.
You pay $1680 ($120 a year) to PLAY UO. You did NOT pay $120 per year for 14 years to get a vet reward. I hate it when people claim their monthly subs as justification for getting a game imbalance reward. This particular reward didn't even EXIST until 2010/11? sometime. It was a poorly thought out reward put into a game that has more negative affects on gameplay than positive ones. SURE those who are old enough to get them are perfectly happy, and like you will trout out the old 'I have played for 14 , 15 , 16 whatever years so am ENTITLED'. No you're not, you are entitled to be recognized as a vet, and should be rewarded for your commitment but NOT at the expense of gameplay for the rest of the player base, NOT with a reward that gives you HUGE advantages. Do I blame you for using it, NO, do I expect you not to use it, NO, do I begrudge any vet who uses something the devs put in game NO.
DO I AGREE with that reward actually BEING IN GAME ............. NO.
I never said you could sell the tokens, I KNOW you can't. You stated, again I quote: "As I've pointed out time and time again, there's nothing preventing any newer player from buying transfer shields, and spending far less than someone who's paid at least $1680 to get a free trip once a month."
My math is not incorrect at all, for a player to 'buy' transfer tokens as YOU suggested above (hence why I am bringing up price), it would cost the equivalent of $600 per year. I guess that is what IS PREVENTING them from doing so. And again, you did NOT pay $1680 over 14 yrs to get a reward, you paid it to play UO. Go back to my point above.
Sorry but I am not prepared to spend $600 per year real life to do transfers on a similar basis. I do not expect a newbie to spend $9000 to compete either for the next 15 yrs. You didn't need to pay that ON TOP of your subs to compete, yet you expect newer players to do so? I pay my subs, I do NOT nor SHOULD NOT be required to spend an additional $50 bucks a month to be able to transfer as you do. Even more in UO gold if I wanted to pay for transfer tokens. At an average of 55 -60 mil per token, so say 120 million for ONE trip that is a great deal. You call that 'easily buy tokens as I need? Seriously ????
You also need to read what I have posted, I know how old an account has to be to claim a transfer token, Your point?? I don't believe I have stated anywhere that they are available earlier than 14 years, get YOUR facts right please.
As for having an opinion, my opinion will NOT change once I can claim transfer shields, they will still be unbalancing, whether or not I use them is beside the point. It has absolutely NOTHING to do with principle as to whether I use them either. I am a pragmatist, if they are in game I will use them. Do I agree with em NOPE. Do they unbalance the game YES. Will I feel sorry for new players that can't claim them for years, damn right I will. Your whole attitude and calling me a 'have not' as you put it is way off base. In fact I find it pretty laughable. It adds nothing to the conversation as to whether the shields are creating an uneven playing field. I don't believe anyone who is using them is doing anything at all wrong, nor that they shouldn't use them, never stated that, never would. BUT I do not for one minute try to claim that the advantages they give to the players that have them are not giving those players serious advantages compared to those without them and not unbalancing the way this game is played as YOU seem to want to do.
I understand it fully, it is YOU who perhaps doesn't understand that those of us NOT based in America pay different amounts for stuff from the UO store. They are $24.99 to purchase from the uo.store.au. We actually pay over the top here for ALL items. Around $16 bucks a month for subs not including tax and credit card charges. I actually looked it UP prior to posting to ensure I had the CORRECT number.
No idea why you want to claim I am jealous. I am not. I transfer each month with friends. What I have or don't have has NOTHING to do with the subject. My opinion is not gonna change whether I can use them or not. When my account was old enough to have an ethy I hated it that newer players were not entitled to the same game changing item. Other rewards that I could use that others couldn't that were NOT game changing were fine as they had no impact on overall gameplay, I could dye rune books some couldn't that was the reward for me being a vet, but it didn't impact on their actual gameplay. Now it has changed that all can use those items, I have NO problem with either. I am not gonna jump up and down claiming I am a vet so 'deserve' to be able to do stuff others can't. It is enough for me that I can 'claim' the item to use on my accounts or sell to others not young enough to claim em. Jealous forget it. You like to think that and make it part of your discussion go ahead, but it is incorrect.
When UO was invented I hardly think the devs sat down and said, oh, and we are gonna give the players a 'pixel' gift each year, therefore we will need to charge them .89 cents included in their monthly sub to cover it. I mean c'mon, what kinda example is that tho throw in (sandwich shop lmao) really? Seems a bit desperate to me. LOL No one in their right mind plays UO JUST for a once a year pixel reward. Sorry, but that is just ludicrous. They may keep paying for their accumulated houses, items and stuff on the 'off chance' they may return, although the majority who do this only pay quarterly to reduce expense, or have plenty of money to throw away over a lot of years in their inability to just let it fall as it does seem a 'waste' of years of effort however, I seriously doubt that getting one gift on an account they don't play is gonna be keeping them here forever, and again seems another kinda desperate claim to support a failed argument. As for my use of the word 'moronic' it was in regard to a situation described and not referring to YOU as a person, take that as you will.
Anways, I will not respond again, as it is obvious what my opinion is so there is no need to go on. Have a nice day
Where have you been? My corpse decayed like an hour ago, and I can't find a wandering healer in this thread anywhere!
ha ha, try Ter Mur.......... oops none there, hmm try the Stygian Abyss......... hmm won't find em there either. You are out of luck my friend. I remember pancakes when they took the gargoyle city down that from the exodus dungeon the nearest 'healer' was honor gate and so they put an ankh in the middle of the desert to pacify me, perhaps if you pancake enough in here Petra will put a picture of an Ankh in for you. You can kinda glare at it til your life refreshes ! !
Then you make the economy like that. You have a truly strange conception of what you think humans can put together.
If someone on Atlantic offers more for a Tangle, then that's tough cookies. Someone on a lower-population. It is not the right of the buyer to demand that the seller not go anywhere or not demand a higher price -- whether in UO or the real world. Why shouldn't someone be able to go elsewhere and get a higher price? Why do you oppose that, and why do you oppose a buyer, who's willing to offer more, getting what he wants?
So it's now my fault for being robbed by others? That's what you're saying, and it's about the most absurd thing ever on UHall.
Guess what: the "safe transfer list" wasn't. There were enough scammers on there as who hung out around banks, or later, in chat. And what happens when a player is no longer around, or who gets a new ICQ, or stops? With the dwindling population, your claim of a "safe" list is not feasible at all.
You still have no concept that time is more valuable to me and others than it is to you. Some of us do not have the time to wait for someone's ICQ, and some of us don't want to give out an ICQ number, particularly when we'd rather be, you know, playing the game instead of sitting around waiting. When certain unique gifts were offered a few years ago on most of the Japanese shards, I brought back lots, on my own time and without having to trade.
So going back to the original thing I said, the superiority of transfer shields is that I don't have to wait on others, or rely on others' honesty. Why is that such a problem for you, and why do you support something that only encourages the rip-off "traders"?
You are still completely off base. I am talking about pure item count. You are confusing it with server load, which is a matter of active users and items. Item count impacts raw storage, while server load impacts the CPU and memory. Learn the difference before you try to talk more about this.
If a database I design has 20 million individual equity trades, it is not relevant if I have 1000 or 10,000 users logged on at once. If I have 37 characters per shard with bank boxes filled to the brim, that is item count that impacts the server's storage, whether or not I am logged on the characters. This is really not hard to understand.
"Free"? After having paid over $1680 per account, somehow that doesn't feel "free."
There's a word for people like you who rant and rail against something but then have no problem using it themselves.
That's really to laugh. You not only have to admit it once, but twice, that you think something is so very bad, but ok, you'll use it when you have the chance!
So there you said it yourself: people with accounts not old enough for their own shields, who don't want to pay for transfers, can rely on, gosh, friends and community for help. THP was helping a lot of people transfer. I didn't need to wait, or risk trusting someone I don't know with things of value. If I'm not transferring a lot, I help my guildmates with moving things around.
The simple point, which went right over your head, is that for all the claims of ethereal mounts being "unbalancing," they were not -- just like shard shields, for all you and others ranting and railing because you don't have them yourselves, are not.
Wrong. When you can't get a simple thing like 14 or 15 years right, it made your math completely wrong, notwithstanding that your basis was faulty.
It would really help if you actually knew what you were talking about, just like you don't even know the price to buy a transfer token.
Right there you explained why your math is wrong. I had ten rewards available on my oldest account when the shields became available, because unlike players who act like children and use them up, I saved mine in case of better things down the road.
And wrong again. Accounts that old get two rewards per year. Notwithstanding, because I had saved a lot of rewards, I was able to pick half a dozen only a month or so after they were available. I didn't have to wait until any of my accounts were 15 years old.
You're still quoting this $49.98 per round trip, which is wrong. Go look it up on the Origin store. You're still quoting this huge sum, which is wrong, because a player cannot get the "free" transfers started until the account hits 168 months. Until that point, an account one month old and another 167 months old have the same footing when it comes to transfers: pay outright, or get help.
And guess what: anyone who has played for more than a little has a "HUGE imbalance in overall game play" than a new player. Why shouldn't that be the case? A long-time player played and paid more.
That much is evident. It's above your head.
Actually, no. The benefits are reaped by whoever wants to buy an item: it could be someone on Atlantic, or Hokuto, or Sonoma, who has a lot of gold and doesn't have "free" shard transfers.
I actually have six shields for my oldest account, but like with so many things you bring up, that is not germane to the topic.
A simple search of certain "illegal" sites shows that you are completely incorrect to make such a generalization. As I and others have pointed out, there are lots of prices on Atlantic that are lower, indicating the greater supply. Look more broadly.
You have it half right. The greater supply drives down prices. If it weren't for all the people bringing things to Atlantic, the prices would have been higher. Like I said: first-day Econ 101.
And you still cannot answer the question: why are you so opposed to a player selling an item for more money, to a buyer who was willing to pay more? Are you kind in real life who complains about "gouging"?
And like I said, you know how tokens work, I know how they work, and you knew what I meant. What I clearly was talking about was choosing two vet rewards so I can get a "free" round trip once a month.
So once again, stop misrepresenting what I'm saying. You're acting like some elementary school student who thinks she's being clever with logic, "But the sun isn't shining in the room, it's still outside."
You really are laughable in your have-not attitude. The rewards came out in late 2011, since you didn't notice, right when 14-year vets were wondering what they'd get. And you know what? It worked. It's encouraged a lot of old-timers to keep old accounts going. In the end, it helped generate more revenue for UO than would have otherwise been, because certain players would have closed accounts and consolidated characters.
And what you think "should be" is, thankfully, completely unsupported by UO's Powers That Be. Since you are clearly so unhappy with what they have given long-term players, you really should find another game that will satisfy you. Go find a free shard or something where there are no vet rewards.
And yet in your sanctimony you'll have no compunction in using them, once you can.
There have been proposals to let the tokens be used by any account, i.e. sold or otherwise given. I wouldn't mind selling them, though the gold would hardly be worth the cost of a monthly subscription. This, however, won't happen. It would have too great an impact on Origin store revenues.
Wrong again. Your math is off just by the fact that you're still using $24.99 per token, when the actual cost is $19.99. I already showed you the price on the Origin store, why do you keep insisting on quoting the wrong figure?
And as I said, in UO or real life, people do not get things for "free" that the company doesn't already pay for in some way, and the other part of your argument is flawed because you assume that people are actively using vet accounts. My "main" account, meaning I play it the most, is my second youngest and cannot get vet rewards. "Free" transfers cost me $10 a month to keep the account open, but UO's Powers That Be are fine with that, because I might have closed the oldest accounts anyway. There are only so many polar bears and tigers to encourage people to keep accounts open.
Nobody is saying you should spend $600. Who did?
Wrong. You kept talking about 15 years.
*cackles*
Oh God, that is rich.
Stop it, you're making me spit out my coffee from laughing so hard.
You can delude yourself all you want.
Life is an uneven playing field. But I'm not talking about that. I'm talking about simple economics where supply and prices equal out among shards. It's a perfect demonstration of Heckscher-Ohlin and Stolper-Samuelson, and I wonder if the last pair, who lived until recent years, had ever heard of UO or any other virtual world that validates their theories.
As I "want to do"? The game is already set with transfer shields. It is you who wants things to be otherwise.
I once wrote an explanation of why prices down under are greater. Perhaps you read it. Nonetheless, now that I know where you are, you're talking $24.99 but failing to adjust for an account's $192 (right?) annual subscription costs. You, well, would have gotten an F on any economics test for failing to account for currency conversion.
Do you realize that you're getting a better value than Americans do? Buying a transfer token costs you only 1.56 times the cost of a monthly subscription, whereas it's double for me.
It's clear that your opposition is purely from jealousy. You made it evident in preceding paragraphs that, oooh, you just can't wait to get your own transfer shields! If you were genuinely principled, you would say that they're "unbalancing" and you just won't use them, out of fairness and solidarity with others.
I actually never did "jump and down," contrary to your false portrayal. I accepted whatever "gifts" the Devs decided to give, and I'm pleased that they threw a bone to the longest-lived accounts. That's what we got for living through UO's worst times.
UO is not the kind of business to run on surcharges, but part of the monthly subscription goes to paying staff who develop the "gifts." Don't you know how a business operates? You don't pay a surcharge for a store's light bill, but it's part of the price.
Nobody ever claimed players play for pixel crack. Stop already with the straw man arguments.
Shard shields, however, are not just pixels. Even ethereal mounts are not just pixels, because they have valuable uses. You must not know any ultra-long-term vets who, as I am, keep our oldest accounts going because we might as well. I barely play any of those characters.
That's the expected response from the likes of you who can't defend illogical arguments. Go stick your head in the sand some more. Keep telling yourself you aren't jealous.Anways, I will not respond again, as it is obvious what my opinion is so there is no need to go on. Have a nice day
Your words, not mine.
And unsurprisingly, you've still said nothing further about your absurd claims of transfers destroying a shard's "long-standing communities and individual character." Perhaps you realized that times change, and a shard's particular identity even without transfers is far from a constant thing.
And here I'll state again, what should be a very simple economics lesson on the balancing act:
If I can sell my widgets locally for no more than $5, but I could for $15 on the other side of the country, then for $5 per unit in transportation costs I might initially ask $14. The sellers on the other side of the country getting $15 then drop their price to compete, and it stabilizes at, say, $12. In my locality, people would have to start offering more to get my business. In the end it brings me more profit, profit is reduced for those who were charging more on the other side of the country, the lower price means a greater consumer surplus for buyers on the other side of the country, and buyers local to me have a reduced consumer surplus. All extremes are brought to the middle.
It's a very simple concept once you open your mind to what trade does, particularly when opportunities open that hadn't existed before, all because two people started buying and selling across great distances. Greater supplies on Atlantic bring down prices. Reduced supplies on a small shard will bring up prices there, and eventually they would meet in the middle.
You just can't bring yourself, for whatever reason, to answer my simple and very earnest questions:
Why are you so opposed to someone, who may or may not be an Atlantic native, offering more money on there because he wants an item more than someone on Origin? Why are you so opposed to a seller getting more money from such a player who is willing to offer more?
And why do you think it's so wrong for players to transfer to a quieter shard, where they won't have to compete with others for resources or wait turns? So what if they're "farming"? That's what they want to do. If they can use legal game mechanics to earn more gold, by supplying people on other shards like Atlantic who are willing to pay more money, so what? Why is that so harmful to you?
yes and a 1,000 page essay for extra points.
No, but I could give a homework assignment on constructing a model of cross-shard trading. The more complex, and the more insightful into all relevant factors, the better the grade.
Try reading some of Blanchard's macroeconomics texts as an example of information inundation. I always liked Mankiw's stuff better.
If no one else noticed, by the way, we now have a pretty good idea of the size of the UO team. Mesanna introduced everyone and said "and this is the UO team." I interpreted this to be that these were basically all of the people who were working on UO exclusively.
I'm sure we probably should count a few people who weren't there, from the recently-formed Broadsword. I'm also sure there's other folks who work on UO and DAOC we perpahsp should count. And there's the EMs and whomever it is she has contracted to work Facebook. But we have a respectable idea now of the size of the team, something we've asked for for some years.
-Galen's player
I'm sure we probably should count a few people who weren't there, from the recently-formed Broadsword. I'm also sure there's other folks who work on UO and DAOC we perpahsp should count. And there's the EMs and whomever it is she has contracted to work Facebook. But we have a respectable idea now of the size of the team, something we've asked for for some years.
-Galen's player
Please quit debating Shard Shields. We had this debate many times before on other threads so not sure why it's still being debated in this thread YFOF.
@GalenKnighthawke 14 people formed Broadsword so not sure if who was in the video was the whole team minus the new FB person and maybe Pinco so I could take a guess and say maybe 7 all together. Then again maybe both teams help each other out when needed.
@GalenKnighthawke 14 people formed Broadsword so not sure if who was in the video was the whole team minus the new FB person and maybe Pinco so I could take a guess and say maybe 7 all together. Then again maybe both teams help each other out when needed.
If someone brings up the same old absurdities about a game mechanic that I and others use to bring balance to supply and prices, then I'm going to counter them.
Someone a little while ago on Sonoma was looking to buy a Defiler of Virtue. Nobody would bite at Atlantic's going price of 7 million -- so much for the anti-shield constantly claim that Atlantic is soooo much more expensive than anywhere else. Again, it's simple economics: greater supply on Atlantic pushes prices down, scarcity everywhere else pushes prices up, thus equalizing things eventually. I almost offered to sell one of a dozen I stashed away (it's been so long that I had forgotten what a Defiler even was!), but because of who he is and the suspicion he deals with duped gold, nah.
Borrowed him from Hunter's Guide, please send him home when he's no longer required
I hope The Zog historian and MissEcho will get a kickback from pageviews generated by this thread 
Haha ok, I definitely skimmed...and I'm sure to be redundant as I list some of my thoughts as I watch the video:
Vice vs. Virtue (August/September)
I'm glad this system is being talked about again (and thieves) but I really hope they'll give us a written re-draft soon so we can debate the details before the live version comes out. Displacing centralized combat at bases and having shrines be the center does not change the focus of large shard enjoyment and small shard apathy. If the team really wants to implement a system that supports small population shards, the system is going to need to have heavy use of AI mobs when appropriate (or see what they think of "objective based PVP"), and a single place to fight (or not more than three). Everyone is different, but needing to "check spawns" led to "ghost cams," just like needing to check vendors led to "vendor scripts." Less is more for big, rewarding battles, but for the content, I really see no way outside of AI mobs to balance the lack of subscribers.
Hi-Res Automation
If they made a script to automate the 40,000 tiles, the automation process shouldn't take very long at all (couple of days of processing). Will be interesting to see how long the clean-up process goes, though. I have no real stake in the hi-res, but glad they found an option we should be able to see in a month or two. I'm a novice in automation, but oh my gosh is Photoshop amazing for automations.
Factions Pause
Priceless. Also priceless? Mesanna admitting pennies work great to hold down macros ;D.
Dungeon/Land Loot Revamp (May)
Hope that's going to be soon, nice to hear something about that. Hopefully some Greater White Wyrms.
Tiger Tameable/Pet Revamp
Thanks for listening, and also hopefully this update will come soon. If the Hi-Res will take about a month, or a month and a half, maybe we could place this change around June? Will have to see what colors they choose for mobs, like that "chocolate dragon," haha. They should give us the Medusa color, too.
Pinco UI
Again, I have no stake in this change, but I know it'll make a lot of people happy. Cool stuff.
Shard Meetings
Very, very, cool.
Haha ok, I definitely skimmed...and I'm sure to be redundant as I list some of my thoughts as I watch the video:
Vice vs. Virtue (August/September)
I'm glad this system is being talked about again (and thieves) but I really hope they'll give us a written re-draft soon so we can debate the details before the live version comes out. Displacing centralized combat at bases and having shrines be the center does not change the focus of large shard enjoyment and small shard apathy. If the team really wants to implement a system that supports small population shards, the system is going to need to have heavy use of AI mobs when appropriate (or see what they think of "objective based PVP"), and a single place to fight (or not more than three). Everyone is different, but needing to "check spawns" led to "ghost cams," just like needing to check vendors led to "vendor scripts." Less is more for big, rewarding battles, but for the content, I really see no way outside of AI mobs to balance the lack of subscribers.
Hi-Res Automation
If they made a script to automate the 40,000 tiles, the automation process shouldn't take very long at all (couple of days of processing). Will be interesting to see how long the clean-up process goes, though. I have no real stake in the hi-res, but glad they found an option we should be able to see in a month or two. I'm a novice in automation, but oh my gosh is Photoshop amazing for automations.
Factions Pause
Priceless. Also priceless? Mesanna admitting pennies work great to hold down macros ;D.
Dungeon/Land Loot Revamp (May)
Hope that's going to be soon, nice to hear something about that. Hopefully some Greater White Wyrms
.Tiger Tameable/Pet Revamp
Thanks for listening, and also hopefully this update will come soon. If the Hi-Res will take about a month, or a month and a half, maybe we could place this change around June? Will have to see what colors they choose for mobs, like that "chocolate dragon," haha. They should give us the Medusa color, too
.Pinco UI
Again, I have no stake in this change, but I know it'll make a lot of people happy. Cool stuff.
Shard Meetings
Very, very, cool.
At this rate Petra he will be here a while.....................
Kelmo my dear, The two are working out the first part of war and peace...UO style......
Petra said the host server could only hold 10 people, there fore... I hazzard to guess some were chosen to answer the questions and the 3 question readers for breaking up the monotony of the questions in general...
Seening that the Dev had a questions to mull over and gather the correct answers to before the hookup started was for savign time and quibbling over facts. As for the Professional/ or lack there of is moot... Be happy you got any word geesh... How many times in the past did a Dev leave us hanging and just hand us the new publish's and tell us live with it we dont care what you want this is our want....
Basic past UO Dev teams read our posts and suguestions and pffted them and did their own version of what UO should be.
Bonnie and her team take the time to read and listen to our thoughts and banter it about... some make it to the drawing board..others put aside for further study... and well the rest is explained why you cant have it.
EXPLAINED WHY NOT....
Look I understand why not ont he 45 degree angle is not possible given the setup of UO code.
Not everything is doable in code.
It was hell when I wrote a program for class on c++ and made it do something no one told me it shouldn't do... even the professor was amazed I got it to do it... how ? IDK i was tired and worked till 3 am to do it.. (I made the program merge box graphics left & right to the center like curtains .... )
Now I would like to see the house tool move locked down things left or right as well as up and down... that might be possible.
And to have the graphics master there make it so a chair or couch has a 4 way turn (make a back profile)
Ok you two.... let me point out 1 tiny thing on the shields...
I have a good set of the shileds on 2 accounts, master account has the main busy shards under finger, while the secondary are under the second. I have found in my use of them its not ewasy to use up the tokens like you all think is being done... I can show you a box full of tokens that go unused so the shields can produce just in case i need them... Its not really that big a deal anymore... I still buy full transfer tokens... there is a limit of just how much you can shield off a shard with 1 guy limited by not only amount of holdings but days in which to move said items...
To put it bluntly 1 shield token moves 1 guy and no other character can use while the timer on him is running... so its moot point kiddos.
Go have a cup of coffee and read a book.
Kelmo my dear, The two are working out the first part of war and peace...UO style......
Petra said the host server could only hold 10 people, there fore... I hazzard to guess some were chosen to answer the questions and the 3 question readers for breaking up the monotony of the questions in general...
Seening that the Dev had a questions to mull over and gather the correct answers to before the hookup started was for savign time and quibbling over facts. As for the Professional/ or lack there of is moot... Be happy you got any word geesh... How many times in the past did a Dev leave us hanging and just hand us the new publish's and tell us live with it we dont care what you want this is our want....
Basic past UO Dev teams read our posts and suguestions and pffted them and did their own version of what UO should be.
Bonnie and her team take the time to read and listen to our thoughts and banter it about... some make it to the drawing board..others put aside for further study... and well the rest is explained why you cant have it.
EXPLAINED WHY NOT....
Look I understand why not ont he 45 degree angle is not possible given the setup of UO code.
Not everything is doable in code.
It was hell when I wrote a program for class on c++ and made it do something no one told me it shouldn't do... even the professor was amazed I got it to do it... how ? IDK i was tired and worked till 3 am to do it.. (I made the program merge box graphics left & right to the center like curtains .... )
Now I would like to see the house tool move locked down things left or right as well as up and down... that might be possible.
And to have the graphics master there make it so a chair or couch has a 4 way turn (make a back profile)
Ok you two.... let me point out 1 tiny thing on the shields...
I have a good set of the shileds on 2 accounts, master account has the main busy shards under finger, while the secondary are under the second. I have found in my use of them its not ewasy to use up the tokens like you all think is being done... I can show you a box full of tokens that go unused so the shields can produce just in case i need them... Its not really that big a deal anymore... I still buy full transfer tokens... there is a limit of just how much you can shield off a shard with 1 guy limited by not only amount of holdings but days in which to move said items...
To put it bluntly 1 shield token moves 1 guy and no other character can use while the timer on him is running... so its moot point kiddos.
Go have a cup of coffee and read a book.
If you can't summarize your thoughts in a paragraph or two, it's not worth reading.
correct. i dont think anyone actually reads zogs novels. *shrugs*
I'm sorry for your need of Cliff's Notes, but this topic doesn't work that way.
When certain people repeat the same old absurd fallacies about "unbalancing" and "OMG IT DESTROYS A SHARD'S CHARACTER," oh yes, it's clear they don't.
i wonder how account bound gold will work. im all for it, but was wondering how it would work. I was wondering how transferring gold between characters would happen, then realized "account bound" more likely would mean all my characters have access to all my gold (at least all my gold not on vendors)
Then i got to thinking of of the trasnfer shield arguement in regards to shard economies (some think its bad, some think its good)
Think of the possibilites with account bound gold. Right now, if i want to start up on a new shard, i have to transfer a suit and other stuff i need there. (or start from scratch, which for me just isnt happening) With account bound gold, smaller shard economies would be stimulated because now i have all my gold available to all my characters, on all shards.
Instead of buying all my stuff on atlantic and transferring it off, i would have the option at least to spend that 20 - 200 million it usually takes me to gear a character on the shard the character will be played on. I can see Alot of others doing this to save the cost of a transfer. So demand for stuff on other shards would definitely increase.
Then i got to thinking of of the trasnfer shield arguement in regards to shard economies (some think its bad, some think its good)
Think of the possibilites with account bound gold. Right now, if i want to start up on a new shard, i have to transfer a suit and other stuff i need there. (or start from scratch, which for me just isnt happening) With account bound gold, smaller shard economies would be stimulated because now i have all my gold available to all my characters, on all shards.
Instead of buying all my stuff on atlantic and transferring it off, i would have the option at least to spend that 20 - 200 million it usually takes me to gear a character on the shard the character will be played on. I can see Alot of others doing this to save the cost of a transfer. So demand for stuff on other shards would definitely increase.
Sorry people, I wasn't gonna say any more but this guy just doesn't GET it. Perhaps putting it in simple point form will get thru. I just stand by the right to defend a point of view when totally miscomprehended by another
Hehe If you DON'T wanna read it don't , but here we go again for the FINAL time *I promise*.
Nowhere in my posts have I stated whether this is good, bad or indifferent, just that it HAPPENS and is unbalancing for the PLAYER BASE because only a FEW people have the opportunity to do it on a regular monthly basis where everyone else cannot due to the exorbitant costs of transfer tokens. This gives a small percentage of the player base a HUGE advantage compared to others. You need to grasp the basic thrust of my argument, which you continually fail to do.
The result is that on the smaller shards it has had a negative impact in that most high end items are now easily moved off shard to more lucrative markets making them mostly unavailable. Where once there were maybe a half dozen different people transferring a month around the shards, transfer shield tokens have allowed hundreds of transfers a month EVERY month, people who had NEVER before transferred due to cost are now veteran transferees as it doesn't cost them anything. It is basic ECONOMICS (as you keep stating) to sell for the highest amount to the largest market. I am NOT opposed to anyone making maximum profit or playing within the game rules however they LIKE so quit inferring that I am. It would be interesting to know the actual 'figures' but I bet shard transfers have more than quadrupled or gone as many as ten times the amount made prior to these shields being introduced if not MORE.
So
Given the following as FACT:
*every SINGLE player Vet or not pays the same monthly subscription fee to play UO so 'Nil ongoing cost' means there is no additional cost, for any vet reward (yr 1 to yr 16 inclusive), above the normal subscription fee that ALL PLAYERS pay irrespective of account age or vet status. ie you don't PAY additional money to get a vet reward above your subscription fee, your fee is inclusive. TRUE OR FALSE?
This is what shard transfer shield tokens do for NIL ongoing cost:
Now, can you possibly ARGUE that those points above are UNTRUE? They are either TRUE or FALSE.
It doesn't matter whether you do it, I do it, don't do it, like it , don't like it or not. THEY ARE FACTS. YES?
If you say all the above is factual, which for my way of thinking you cannot possibly come to ANY other conclusion then it is blatantly OBVIOUS, that players who can transfer monthly for NIL ongoing cost have a HUGE advantage compared to players who can ONLY do the same for exorbitant transfer costs.
I consider $600 (approximate 4 x the annual subscription rate) or 1.44 billion UO gold per yr a significant SAVING to a player and thus creates a HUGE advantage to said player in giving them the ability to do all the above for nil ongoing cost, it allows them to alter their game play significantly.
When ever there is a HUGE advantage in game play to one section of the player base then the game is UNBALANCED. That is a FACT in ANY game. And that is the SOLE point of my argument.
Cheers,
but I somehow think you will just keep arguing with me. So I am definitely OUT now.
Hehe If you DON'T wanna read it don't , but here we go again for the FINAL time *I promise*.
NOT Unsurprisingly because I DIDN'T SAY THAT. You need to learn to read. That particular quote was from something Riyana said. So NO I am not gonna comment on it.
Again, I have never said anything like that, on the contrary I have stated NUMEROUS times that I transfer stuff to and from my shard and sell it for the highest price as a hundred others do. I am not opposed to people selling stuff for what they can get on any shard they like, I DO IT so am hardly likely to complain if OTHERS do it. You are the one who is continually inferring the above NOT ME, you need to read more closely and comprehend my argument. In fact multiple times I have stated that any vet would be a moron not use the tokens as intended.
Nowhere in my posts have I stated whether this is good, bad or indifferent, just that it HAPPENS and is unbalancing for the PLAYER BASE because only a FEW people have the opportunity to do it on a regular monthly basis where everyone else cannot due to the exorbitant costs of transfer tokens. This gives a small percentage of the player base a HUGE advantage compared to others. You need to grasp the basic thrust of my argument, which you continually fail to do.
The result is that on the smaller shards it has had a negative impact in that most high end items are now easily moved off shard to more lucrative markets making them mostly unavailable. Where once there were maybe a half dozen different people transferring a month around the shards, transfer shield tokens have allowed hundreds of transfers a month EVERY month, people who had NEVER before transferred due to cost are now veteran transferees as it doesn't cost them anything. It is basic ECONOMICS (as you keep stating) to sell for the highest amount to the largest market. I am NOT opposed to anyone making maximum profit or playing within the game rules however they LIKE so quit inferring that I am. It would be interesting to know the actual 'figures' but I bet shard transfers have more than quadrupled or gone as many as ten times the amount made prior to these shields being introduced if not MORE.
So
Given the following as FACT:
*every SINGLE player Vet or not pays the same monthly subscription fee to play UO so 'Nil ongoing cost' means there is no additional cost, for any vet reward (yr 1 to yr 16 inclusive), above the normal subscription fee that ALL PLAYERS pay irrespective of account age or vet status. ie you don't PAY additional money to get a vet reward above your subscription fee, your fee is inclusive. TRUE OR FALSE?
This is what shard transfer shield tokens do for NIL ongoing cost:
- allow a vet to transfer once a month to one or multiple shards, every month in perpetuity.
- allow vets to go to smaller shards where there is less population and therefore less competition for spawns, bosses etc and farm them and each month move their spoils to whatever shard they like .
- allow vets on their monthly trip around multiple shards to purchase all the low cost items they can find, buy them up and transfer them to a shard where they can sell them for more money.
- allow vets to shift all their holiday gifts from multiple shards, which can number hundreds of items, to their home shards to either sell the rares, or to bin the items to get maximum clean up points in one location.
- allows vets to create 'event' chars on each shard to participate in local EM events and transport their stuff back to their home shard or to the shard where they can make the most profit off those items.
- they pay approximately $40-$50 dollars PER MONTH to go to ONE location. So for a year it would cost approximately $600 to go to ONE location per month and an additional $20-$25 per month for each additional location.
- they were prepared to pay with UO gold the cost would be approximately 120 Million for ONE location for ONE month return (ie two transfer tokens, there and back, at 55-60 million per token), so over a year it would cost them 1 Billion 440 million gold.
Now, can you possibly ARGUE that those points above are UNTRUE? They are either TRUE or FALSE.
It doesn't matter whether you do it, I do it, don't do it, like it , don't like it or not. THEY ARE FACTS. YES?
If you say all the above is factual, which for my way of thinking you cannot possibly come to ANY other conclusion then it is blatantly OBVIOUS, that players who can transfer monthly for NIL ongoing cost have a HUGE advantage compared to players who can ONLY do the same for exorbitant transfer costs.
I consider $600 (approximate 4 x the annual subscription rate) or 1.44 billion UO gold per yr a significant SAVING to a player and thus creates a HUGE advantage to said player in giving them the ability to do all the above for nil ongoing cost, it allows them to alter their game play significantly.
When ever there is a HUGE advantage in game play to one section of the player base then the game is UNBALANCED. That is a FACT in ANY game. And that is the SOLE point of my argument.
Cheers,
but I somehow think you will just keep arguing with me. So I am definitely OUT now.
He looked as if Mesanna was behind him holding a gun making sure she didn't slip up and let out some vital info...hehe!
With that said..I'm a bit upset I didn't know where to ask questions
Never mind the fact that there's a robust group of people on free shard already doing this..why not milk it :/
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
There is an ideal. Hang out on free shards for a few weeks. Take what is working great and release it as a package update a month later on real UO. Most the hard work is done. What is a free shard going to do? Scream copy right infringement or breaking their rules?
So much of your claim you weren't going to respond.
It's not my fault you can't get first-day Econ 101.but this guy just doesn't GET it. Perhaps putting it in simple point form will get thru. I just stand by the right to defend a point of view when totally miscomprehended by another
We could only be so lucky.
Was it? Then very well: do you or do you not agree with her?
Actually, you're wrong. That was YOUR quote. Can't you own up to your own words?
You wrote that right here: http://stratics.com/community/threads/uo-com-state-of-uo-address.314034/page-3#post-2376025
When you say it's "unbalancing," that is to say it's a bad thing. Don't backtrack now by changing your definitions on the fly.
And as I've pointed out, that's the fault of buyers on lower-population shards, because they aren't offering enough to get the items. Why should someone be a milkman when he could sell his product large-scale to people who are willing to pay more? Why would Caspian sea fishermen sell only locally (at least until the ban) when their caviar could be transported around the world to those who have more money and are willing to pay well?
You say this after ranting about "unbalancing." Stop backtracking. Shard shields allow people to sell elsewhere for more gold, so it's something you either oppose or accept.
A "fact" from you? That's a laugh.
Per month is irrelevant. Every player has not paid the same total amount into the game. Someone who has paid for 167 months is not on the same standing as someone who's paid 168. My accounts have been more important to the game's revenues than yours have.
You're stating the obvious. And what's your point? That it's a bad thing for long-time vets to be rewarded for having paid a lot into the game? Shields expand their ability to trade and interact. That's a great thing.
And without having had to pay so much into the game to get to that level. By your own argument, all someone cares about is getting a sandwich, not getting a "free" one, right? Then by your argument, it's a waste to have to buy __ sandwiches to get a "free" one, proving my point that it's cheaper just to pay the sandwiches as you want.
You aren't saying a thing here. You're just stating the obvious.
It's the same kind of advantage than a shipping conglomerate having invested a lot in expensive ships with very low marginal costs to operate, compared to a new company whose ships cost more to run. Nothing prevented the newcomers from doing the same. It was no one's fault but their own for not having done the same at the right time. It was likewise no one's fault but newer UO players like you who have "sour grapes" over shard shields, who could have started all those years ago to get the same rewards.
People who put in more effort and/or money should get more for it, and if a company wants to reward customers, it's the company's right. As I said, your opinion is not what UO's Powers That Be have decided.
You're going around in circles. The actual FACT is that to get to the level of a 14-year reward, any player has had to pay a great deal more than a short-term player could put in on his own. At the same time, there is nothing that prevents any newer player from getting help from any player in transferring from shard to shard, paid or from a vet reward. What's the matter, haven't you been able to find such friends?
Yes, go stick fresh wax in your ears to ignore reality. You say "cheers" but remind me of a guy who'd say "Shalom' when he meant nothing good. It's a shame I couldn't give you a transfer token to Atlantic, where you'd be able to buy a clue. Evidently Oceania is fresh out. I would tell you to read up on Heckscher-Ohlin and Stolper-Samuelson as perfectly validated in UO's transfer system, but those are clearly so above your head that there's no point to your even trying.Cheers,
but I somehow think you will just keep arguing with me. So I am definitely OUT now.
Yeah, this is what I get for being more than nice to someone. Do you realize I didn't have to give you that item, that I could have sold it for myself? After all, according to you, people get so much more on Atlantic. I suppose that explains why Atlantic's prices are among the cheapest for that kind of item, hmm?
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ZOMG! I think the the Shields debate finally filled up my hardrive. OH Noes!!!!
@Warpig Inc actually has a great idea above me
@Warpig Inc actually has a great idea above me
I'm not surprised you couldn't say anything further about the benefit of shard transfer shields when it comes to seasonal giveaways, particularly all the times I (and my friends as well) would get ripped off.
You know what you really shouldn't have done, though? You shouldn't have tried your failed "gotcha" by claiming, when you knew it wasn't what I meant, that I said it was one token per claimed vet reward. The one thing I do not tolerate, whether it was in school, in the office or online, is when someone speaks untruthfully about what I said. It speaks volumes about a person's character to make such falsities.
We'll see if you live up to your promise of not replying further, but if you can't again live up to your word, I'll be delighted to keep fisking you.
And you know the most laughable part of anything you said? When you confused server load with item count. It's good you didn't even try to say more, because you had dug yourself into quite a hole already.
And I suppose just as well, for the sake of convincing yourself of this "unbalancing" fallacy, that you ignored plain reality. One doesn't have to be in Econ 101 to understand these.
You know what you really shouldn't have done, though? You shouldn't have tried your failed "gotcha" by claiming, when you knew it wasn't what I meant, that I said it was one token per claimed vet reward. The one thing I do not tolerate, whether it was in school, in the office or online, is when someone speaks untruthfully about what I said. It speaks volumes about a person's character to make such falsities.
We'll see if you live up to your promise of not replying further, but if you can't again live up to your word, I'll be delighted to keep fisking you.
It's hard to call it a debate, really. It's Zog misapplying to the context of a game what appears to be badly understood economic theory elevated to the level of religious faith. After you leave the page, clear your browser's cache, and the debate will go away until the next time you visit.
-Galen's player
@The Zog historian & @MissEcho
I have multiple requests that you continue your shard transfer debate in private messages. I would be obliged if you could do so please.
Since shard transfers were not a topic addressed during the event can we now return to discussing those that were please?
I have multiple requests that you continue your shard transfer debate in private messages. I would be obliged if you could do so please.
Since shard transfers were not a topic addressed during the event can we now return to discussing those that were please?
That's fine with me. I don't know why they were even brought up in the first place, especially in this thread rather than a separate one.
Like I said, this is what I get for being nice. Someone knows what I'm talking about.
Like I said, this is what I get for being nice. Someone knows what I'm talking about.
*hopes for 2 slot tigers with pack instinct that makes em worth using* could also have a "rideable tiger" version for non tamers to be able to ride...
Well, I'm of two minds about this. First, I would say the veteran reward is not really a big deal compared to the fact that people can transfer anyway.
What I would say is that as a developer, I would never have opened the gate of shard transfers in the first place, for a great many reasons, not the least of which is the virtual-economic impact, and perhaps the greatest of which is pieces of shard history transferring to other servers. However, that gate was opened long ago, and therefore, the shard shields supplement bad design, but really don't change the overall scope. Sure, people do not have to buy anything to do it, but it is technically still limited.
i got an idea for a vet reward : a tool that can be used to turn garg items back to human only if they have been altered in the 1st place
me personally, I wish they would just put up a moongate-like portal that you could go through as often as you wish to go back and forth to any shard you want to (on second thought I don't want atlantic a**sholes raiding my spawns)
barring that it would be nice if you had a common bank box for each account that you could access across shards - put something in it on one shard and take it out on another
and since I know that would result in epic pancakes from people, as a last resort, I'd like the ability to shop vendors on other shards with this new vendor system - even if I had to pay extra
barring that it would be nice if you had a common bank box for each account that you could access across shards - put something in it on one shard and take it out on another
and since I know that would result in epic pancakes from people, as a last resort, I'd like the ability to shop vendors on other shards with this new vendor system - even if I had to pay extra
I wouldn't have a problem with any of the above as long as EVERYONE had access to it. The problems arise when only a select FEW have game changing additions.
- Status