• Hail Guest!
    We're looking for Community Content Contribuitors to Stratics. If you would like to write articles, fan fiction, do guild or shard event recaps, it's simple. Find out how in this thread: Community Contributions
  • Greetings Guest, Having Login Issues? Check this thread!
  • Hail Guest!,
    Please take a moment to read this post reminding you all of the importance of Account Security.
  • Hail Guest!
    Please read the new announcement concerning the upcoming addition to Stratics. You can find the announcement Here!

Unattended Scripters

Petra Fyde

Peerless Chatterbox
Alumni
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
I don't buy the notion that the developers are holding back for fear that banning all the scripters would cost UO too many people. It's not like they have to perma-ban everyone. I think the problem is that their detection methods are shoddy-to-nonexistent.
I think the problem is more that it's like trying to bail a rowboat with a teacup.

Actually I just made a new mage - and you know I didn't fireball ettins for six months. I don't have the boredom threshold for that.
The perceived boredom level in training a new character is not as great as reality. I trained in New Haven to 50 skill doing the newbie quest, then hunted whatever was appropriate that would also give me something useful - spined leather, arrows, hedge seeds etc
 

THP

Always Present
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
its SAD and MADDENING that EA actually encourage and support and put up with scripting....

It would take one GM 1 hour a day to clear these filthy low life out the game...BUT they wont as that would be losing a lot of ''devils gold revenue '' for them
 

MissEcho

Babbling Loonie
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
UNLEASHED
I always thought it was pretty easy to stop the scripters. Wasn't it always the case that a patch caused the scripters to halt for a day or so until the script writers accounted for the patch? Certainly used to be the case. A daily mini patch would of seemed to be the key to putting an abrupt halt to things. Maybe it has changed now, who knows.
 

Theo_GL

Grand Poobah
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
UNLEASHED
I don't buy the notion that the developers are holding back for fear that banning all the scripters would cost UO too many people. It's not like they have to perma-ban everyone. I think the problem is that their detection methods are shoddy-to-nonexistent.

I mean look, if they had a genuine, reliable, efficient way to detect scripters, and not just an imaginary spreadsheet? All they would have to do is give scripters a five-minute boot from the game whenever a script cropped up. That would discourage mister Joe Average Scripter who's just trying to gain Bushido or something, without banning him.

If anything, I think they're afraid that if everyone has to play this game legit they'll just quit. That if everyone has to go "Think I'll make a mage! Now to enjoy six months of fireballing ettins before I'm useful!" or whatever, they just won't bother.

I think skillgain just needs to be lots, lots faster in general. Gear is the real means of character progression anyway.
I agree that alot of skills suck to gain (poison, taming, disco, etc). However, the biggest problem with scripting is not skill gain.

Again - if I was a Dev - once you worked up a skill on an account/shard - you should not have to work it again. You should be able to have one character 'train' the other. With a 24hr waiting period - you should be able to copy a skill from char to char. If I have one 120 swordsperson he could teach my second swordsperson over the next 24 or 48 hrs. Working a skill up to 120 a second time is just stupid. It proves nothing. People want to play the game - not imbue 20,000 daggers again on second character.

EDIT : Ok 4 likes in less than 40 min after posting. Wonder if I should run for dev team. Ha ha... Most of my ideas just seem so simple to me not sure why the dev team focuses on the wrong stuff. Plus it also floors me not one has come here to post in this thread.
 
S

Sevin0oo0

Guest
once you worked up a skill on an account/shard - you should not have to work it again.
I like that, drag and drop the skills you want, on the toon you want. I do that now, to an extent, having 7 Soulstones, several of the remaining toons simply acting as additional multi skill holders. Why gear up 7 identical toons? Once they're all scrolled, mine will be complete
 

Driven Insane

Sage
Stratics Veteran
I can only wonder what drove you to be this insane, but then I realize that your name here on the forum probably has some deep roots...
It's just a name. Trust me I'm quite sane.

I am a valuable and valued coinhabitant of your UO universe. Don't insult me or your fellow players that disagree with you.
If you're a scripter or cheater, then no, you're not valued and I'll insult you all day and night for being the lazy bum you really are.

One last question: how many characters of yours have those mace and shield, or one of those other turn-in goggles? If it is more than one, I applaud you for your righteous persistence.... Or call BS on your statement that you have never cheated. You may not have turned on a script, but you were as much a victim as a culprit when you bought those for 8 mil in Luna....
3 chars with Mace and Shield. It's been years, but I believe it was 20 mil that you had to dump on the turn in guy.

Nope never cheated and since you asked my RL is just fine. Married 16 years, loving father and husband, best maintained cars and house in the neighborhood. Sorry to burst your bubble, but it is possible to accomplish alot in UO over 12 years without cheating and still have a real life.
 
S

Sevin0oo0

Guest
I agree, There's some sayings that have reason, "Keep your friends close, your enemies closer", "Love the sinner, hate the sin".
 

Mirt

Certifiable
Supporter
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
UNLEASHED
It was so civil over the weekend. Maybe we can channel that back and keep going.
 
T

tjm6f4

Guest
There are many reasons this game is messed up, but while scripting was evil in the beginning, it has become a benefit to the current state of the game.
Hackers/Dupers/Scripters in the beginning assisted in the degradation of the economy by inserting a lot of expensive items and gold where there was already imbalance.
The more money you allow to be printed, the less valuable it becomes. UO's idea on how to balance this is by making items hard to obtain, but such a model is unsustainable because time vs. reward in most rare-drops is ridiculous.
What you are seeing is the culmination of poor economic design from the beginning, a Dev Team that realizes there is no saving it, and an antiquated game whose population is dwindling.
I honestly don't care if people are scripting because they are, in fact, sustaining the economy by keeping the prices in the game from going to even more ridiculous levels.

This is a ship with holes, it is sinking, and the only thing the captain and his crew can do is patch it up before it inevitably sinks to the bottom.
Our only chance is that ship builder EA will build a new ship, sail it out to us, let us aboard, and keep this going - *laughs*.

EDIT: I would like to offer a creative solution.
I firmly believe this game is beyond saving BUT I would like to offer my thoughts on a fix. Since they don't want to legalize scripting, take the economic power away from the scripters by introducing vendors (gold sinks) that are priced just below the effort-to-cost ratio of scripting - easily calculated. In essence, it would be cheaper to just buy resources from the vendor rather than from players or any website. What this also does is get gold out of circulation. And if you're thinking this will destroy the ability to go get any resources and sell them yourself in an honest way, you're right, but let's be honest, it takes too much and you would need to price those ingots way too high anyway to make it even worth your time.
The problem you run into with this (which is also an existing problem) is that scripters will buy from this vendor and turn the purchased items into a given turn-in spot. To fix this, I propose making the ID properties of vendors privately accessible from the client-side. This will disable the ability to use Last Target on vendors but not in, say, combat. I would imagine that scripts rely heavily on this...
 

Gorbs

Sage
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
What's the incentive to stop scripters? The accounts only cost the monthly fee. If they randomly ban some scripters, but not all, the payment of monthly fees will continue and they'll get a small amount more assuming the scripters immediately purchase new game time for new accounts to replace those banned. If they are so effective in banning scripters that the scripters can't stay in business, they'll lose the monthly revenue they are getting now. Although it may cause some players to reactivate their accounts it is unknown how many and for how long those subscriptions will be recurring.

I do wonder if periodly performing random siezures of in game assets from scripters might help. I don't know that this would improve the economy much though. To some extent it may cause frustration among the non-scripting set who would find it more difficult to buy items in Luna. The other idea I'd bandy about is whether or not selling resources through the origin store would hurt the scripters and please the non-scripters without seriously angering too many of the non-scripters. Many would say that's pay-to-win. I think we've already crossed that bridge with the forged metal tool, as well as the fact the not-to-be-mentioned script sites don't seem to be policed or troubled.
 

Driven Insane

Sage
Stratics Veteran
Can't you leave out the personal assaults?
Don't talk to me about personal assaults when you clearly stated in your replies that you think I've got some mental condition and that you think because I do OK in UO that my personal life must be suffering.

Yes I have nothing but pure hatred for people, both in game and out who are willing to break the rules and at the same time make life harder for decent, honest folks simply due to their own greed and laziness. For that I will never apologize.
 

Thav12

Seasoned Veteran
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
A few post back a reference was made to an article that was written by one of Ralph Kosters team mates back in 1998 or so. I suggest everyone read it and absorb the diagrams in that article. Within a year the devs had figured out the basic flaws within the closed economy and eloquently presented those at various meetings.

Due to these core design flaws, with no one to blame as UO was the very first of its kind, the economy is unfixable. The various solutions offered in this thread all fall within a category in that article. Despite uncalled for personal attacks, I continue to be upbeat about this game. I don't think scripting is that big of a deal for the happiness of the population. You can't win UO. I already admitted to using a script for Magery and necro for the specific purpose of creating a pvp character on three different shards. I could have not done that and not pvp'd on those other shards. I don't see how my presence there, including scripting, hurt any person, including insane ones. But hey, I chose not to turn the same program on for resource scripting.

This made me think about the why. I think the reason I didn't do that (yet :) ) is that I enjoy the game and it's flawed economy and do not get any joy out of coming home from work and selling my 60k boards, or running the risk that i find my account locked and banned for little joy or gain. I enjoy hanging with friends, bashing some pixels and helping out where I can. So I guess the reason is that I spend my game energy and my computer time on stuff that fulfill a sense of need. Just like everyone else here I pancake and moan about Luna and its prices, I cry when my crystalline ring I finally got after 10 years is lost because I forgot to check my insurance money before a raid, etc...

All is in the eye of the beholder. I could go all apecake over script miners, but the reality is that all prices have balanced out not despite but because of guys like that. I can't see the harm. Keep killing them though, that is part of the balance I am talking about. Hell, I kill them on sight! Easy money! Keep banning obvious outliers. Good! It is all part of this current balance that I keep bringing up.

Unless the flaws get fixed, and I think I make a strong case that they can't be fixed, addressing one flaw and not another will unbalance the balance and destroy the game. In a weird way, and I can do without the emotional attacks, even a guy like driven insane is part of that equation. It took a long time to get where we are and the economy is as stable as I have known it the past three to four years. That has been the evolution that took place as a result of the impact of all these posts, devs and flaws all together. Pretty cool actually.
 

kRUXCg7

Sage
Stratics Veteran
Don't talk to me about personal assaults when you clearly stated in your replies that you think I've got some mental condition and that you think because I do OK in UO that my personal life must be suffering.
I admit I made one single snickering remark about your chosen nick name but I thought I had made it clear that it was in no way meant as an offense. I had related to some mundane tasks you were doing in game which I could not bother. In no way was I saying that I think you have any mental condition nor do I say that now. I believe you are referring to another person's posting which might have been removed by some admin right now. In either way with my plea to leave out personal assaults I meant the attacks against you in the first place. I was also troubled that you state your personal life as proof of leading a great life, which surely sounded like that. If it is the case that my minor questionable remark about your nick name then I blush and would like to apologize.

Let me at least explain why I made the remark:
1. You told everyone you want to be known as "Driven Insane".
2. I thought this was referring to some good sense of humor.
3. I also thought your nickname was in the style of... "Some tasks in UO are so insanely frustrating, but I have done them, so I was driven insane!".
4. My remark was citing this very assumption of mine - because you just had told us about some of the very most frustrating robotic tasks that can be done in Ultima Online (I forgot which task it was).

In my mind the things that you did (frustrating tasks) were directly tied your nickname and meant in good humor and my remark was nothing short of a compliment of a nicely chosen nickname - competely in the universe of Ultima Online and not outside, thus not 'personal' as I understand it. I understand now that I should not have made a remark about your nickname. You probably had better reasons to choose the nickname. Your reactions showed me: I should not have made my assumptions. Please accept my apologies and believe me that I never wanted to use your nickname as a source of a personal assault and I am still shocked to see that you thought that was my intention.
 

Driven Insane

Sage
Stratics Veteran
kRUXCg7

It's all good and I appreciate your post.

I know I come off as being a prick sometimes, but it's simply due to dealing with this same topic (Cheaters) for over a decade now and my frustration does come through in my posts. Also I must admit that although I try not to compare RL to a game, it does seem ironic the similiarities between what's happened in UO regarding cheaters and what's happen in the US regarding illegal immigrants, which is another topic that gets me into alot of trouble on other forums.

And I honestly don't know why I chose the name I did. Probably because Legolas#5697 was taken already ;)
 

Meatbread

Journeyman
Stratics Veteran
The perceived boredom level in training a new character is not as great as reality. I trained in New Haven to 50 skill doing the newbie quest, then hunted whatever was appropriate that would also give me something useful - spined leather, arrows, hedge seeds etc
You have way way way more patience for this sort of thing than the average player does at this point.
 

garillo

Journeyman
Stratics Veteran
Scripting for skill gains and scripting for resources are two different things.

If someone wants to hold a mage wep and cast on a chest locked in their home til 120, that's fine with me. Magic arrow eval to 120 on that chest as well, I don't care. Shoot that golem in the face with some arrows, we all hope he dies anyways because he's probably with SKYNET. The skills in this game are boring to grind out in combination with the amount of time/money it takes to get resources to advance, only to make it to end game content (PvP or PvM) that is very limited PvM content-wise and will bore you within a month or two.

The problem I have with people scripting is when they're doing it on multiple accounts walking rails in Underworld for cleanup points on abandoned shards. The sampires that run their target closest/whirlwind scripts and walk rails through spawns. The guys that recall in and out of banks with boards/ore, that kinda stuff.

The resource gold sinks (runics/seeds of renewal/crystal shards/ores/lumber) should be what we are looking towards now. Fix metal armor so Blacksmiths (weaponsmithslol) can't complain about removing one of the few things (capability of acquiring runic hammers) left going for the skill. This way, tailor/smity people can opt out of grinding for runics by paying a set vendor price and can instead spend hours getting their resists right.

I really don't see why the game has been so neglected, but still has a monthly sub fee as well as an in-game store (that cannot even match the prices of their 3rd party competitors). There are two viable directions the game can go in from here to stay alive.

1) Fix the store so it works and regularly add stuff to it, add in resource gold sinks, make it free to play (with the premium account option with house placement/whatever can be decided). You may laugh or disagree, but statistically and stockwise in the past few years free-to-play games have trended and done quite well, with benefits like healthy server populations, etc. People want streamlined game play, so cut back on the grind some with resource sinks. With UO constantly being scolded for not having an universal UI or up to date graphics, it would be less of an issue if it was free to play. It's 2012, game like it.

2) Add in resource gold sinks, make certain types of scripting/macroing legal to all, while REGULATING and PROSECUTING those who cross the lines of what is deemed "legal" or "illegal" via the ToS we pay for to protect us as gamers for fair-play. Cut the fat out of some of the grind.

Chum for thought.
 
W

Woodsman

Guest
There are many reasons this game is messed up, but while scripting was evil in the beginning, it has become a benefit to the current state of the game.
By helping kill off entire classes of players? I used to know a lot of people who made a lot of runebooks, maintained runebook libraries, and sold a lot of ore and wood they harvested. They were wiped out by randomization and the scripters.

The acceptance of scripters also hurt's UO's reputation in the general gaming community. Blizzard would not tolerate this stuff in Warcraft. BioWare does not tolerate it in Star Wars.
 

Thav12

Seasoned Veteran
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
Woodsman, you are often dead on with your posts. Not this time. Almost all rune libraries for ore and wood were copies of the same books, organized to perfection. Not human perfection but for scripting perfection, as in plunk in backpack and press play perfection.The scripts didn't kill the profession though, poor game design did it in. The scripts still run rampant, but at least the market is no longer flooded with "rare woods". No more "magic trees". With the loss of profitable wood in large quantities, the economy was balanced again, but this has not been caused by or has affected the scripters at all. This was a faucet issue, not a scripting issue.

I
 
T

tjm6f4

Guest
By helping kill off entire classes of players? I used to know a lot of people who made a lot of runebooks, maintained runebook libraries, and sold a lot of ore and wood they harvested. They were wiped out by randomization and the scripters.
The acceptance of scripters also hurt's UO's reputation in the general gaming community. Blizzard would not tolerate this stuff in Warcraft. BioWare does not tolerate it in Star Wars.
Key concept to grasp from me original statement: Scripters did hurt the game (and with regards to your statement, it did kill the play style of many players) when it came around and prospered, something it continues to do; over time the game's economy shifted naturally (or unnaturally, depending on how you want to look at it) in response to scripters[dupers/hackers]; the consequences of allowing it to flourish in the beginning is that the relationship between UO and Scripting is now symbiotic. The unfortunate reality is that the current state of the game is one of extreme degradation and further shock could cripple it even worse... if you can even imagine that.
 
Top