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Sounds like small bods will still be left on the floor then, if you arent gonna make them redeemable en mass for better rewards. If that is the thinking, then at least make them worth enough clean-up points to be worth doing the bod. Please.
Uhm... not to pick nits, but the data is already stored on the server. Surely a query can be devised that searches the database of what is stored in a house without the server melting down.
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Maybe, and maybe not, just like there is a server for rewards, and character transfer etc. if I'm not mistaken there is a separate one that's tied into housing that keeps track of houses per account, and their location for all shards. IF this is the case, and the foci of this point of contention then I get what they are saying a query could be made to search it, but with the amount of data you'd be searching through the stress would cause a spike in resource usage, now imagine 100 or 1000 people doing a query at the same time.
Possibly, but again that data is stored already. Unless it is a woefully I inefficient set up (which, lets be honest, it is UO...), it shouldn't be terribly difficult to limit the impact it would have. Vendor search manages to not crash and burn on a regular basis, and it updates frequently. A house search system could be limited to updating once or twice a day.
It is easy to store data, lets say a chest and the items in that chest with an ID # but now people are asking for a cord. like the sextant gives. That is more like the Vendor Search system and now think having 100 vendors at a Castle is one thing but how many boxes could you store in a Castle with 7500 total items. Vendors are set location and easier to track but placing an ID# for everything in UO and tracking its exact location is a monster. Also think about how long it takes just to search Vendors esp on Atl and the load to add a item search on top of that, at some point the servers would feel like UO 98, LOL.
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Personally I think a search my house for something feature is silly.
Get off your butt and organize your house or have a garage sale so you have less to look through.
Bottom line quit being lazy and stop putting things off on other people which you should be able to take care of yourself
Get off your butt and organize your house or have a garage sale so you have less to look through.
Bottom line quit being lazy and stop putting things off on other people which you should be able to take care of yourself
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75000/125 = 60 containers. So fewer items then those 100 vendors.
Everything in UO has a unique ID number. Everything. Something has to store the hue, durability, uses, etc. information of each item you own. UO's back end is a massive database.
A searchable version of "what's in houses" database wouldn't run off the same query as vendor search, though it may be run off the same server. Since UO is allegedly hosted by Amazon, their servers are expandable.
At the War College a lot of the assets are static but when you but assets that can easily move the more of those assets in game moving or not took more CPU power to track because location was brought into the equation and if they were airborne assets the faster they moved the more power required to track. Vendors/houses are static assets but the contents of your Bank/backpack/house are all movable assets and would require a dirrerent tracking system and could the cloud handle it, I do not know. As a bad guy that had the full assets of the USSR and China to play with if and when I launched on 7th Fleet I could load a Server down real easy and we had 4 servers chained together just to run one game.
No, everything in UO is "tracked" 100% of the time. The database knows where everything is, that's its job. The system knows where you put that Ophidian Journal from 10 years ago AT ALL TIMES. The system just sees that Item ID 213658435684 is in container Item ID: 3543254736524 or in one of the containers (pack and bank) attached to character ID 4354524. It knows this 100% of the time. If it didn't items would just go poof with alarming regularity. It probably even knows container Item ID: 3543254736524's X,Y, Z coordinates. Again, at all times.
So, "tracking" what's in your house is merely a matter of collating the data and displaying it in a useful format. A database query would first define the house to be searched, then (likely) define that it is in a container; at which point some mechanism would tell the player where the item is. Done simply, the container's gump would simply open so the player could then grab the item (regardless of the usual proximity rules).
So say you searched for that Ophidian Journal in your house (a known space with a known selection of items) and the system finds two item IDs with that name. It gives you a gump to open one (or both) the containers. You grab the journal and kick back to read a fanciful tale of hisses.
No, everything in UO is "tracked" 100% of the time. The database knows where everything is, that's its job. The system knows where you put that Ophidian Journal from 10 years ago AT ALL TIMES. The system just sees that Item ID 213658435684 is in container Item ID: 3543254736524 or in one of the containers (pack and bank) attached to character ID 4354524. It knows this 100% of the time. If it didn't items would just go poof with alarming regularity. It probably even knows container Item ID: 3543254736524's X,Y, Z coordinates. Again, at all times.
So, "tracking" what's in your house is merely a matter of collating the data and displaying it in a useful format. A database query would first define the house to be searched, then (likely) define that it is in a container; at which point some mechanism would tell the player where the item is. Done simply, the container's gump would simply open so the player could then grab the item (regardless of the usual proximity rules).
So say you searched for that Ophidian Journal in your house (a known space with a known selection of items) and the system finds two item IDs with that name. It gives you a gump to open one (or both) the containers. You grab the journal and kick back to read a fanciful tale of hisses.
WHATEVER Sorry I do not know everything about everything like you do.
Databases aren't rocket science.
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So I wanna say....
We are working hard to get Publish 95 together. We hope to get it to you before Thanksgiving so that you can enjoy all the exciting new gifts and veteran rewards we are working on. I will give you a hint, one veteran reward is a creepy crawly mount! :smiley: THIS....is gonna be awesome I can't wait for this...happens to be my favorite bug
AND....
To go along with the BOD update, we are also planning a community crafting event for the holiday season. We want to give crafters something to rally behind in order to fill some of those BODs that have been collecting dust, as well as earn some fun new rewards for getting in the holiday spirit!
THIS...sounds SO awesome! I can't wait! Some good stuff in this newsletter, thanks team!
We are working hard to get Publish 95 together. We hope to get it to you before Thanksgiving so that you can enjoy all the exciting new gifts and veteran rewards we are working on. I will give you a hint, one veteran reward is a creepy crawly mount! :smiley: THIS....is gonna be awesome I can't wait for this...happens to be my favorite bug
AND....
To go along with the BOD update, we are also planning a community crafting event for the holiday season. We want to give crafters something to rally behind in order to fill some of those BODs that have been collecting dust, as well as earn some fun new rewards for getting in the holiday spirit!
THIS...sounds SO awesome! I can't wait! Some good stuff in this newsletter, thanks team!
I want more info on what they are planning for BoDs. I hope they have kept track of all the requests over the years and are considering them all.
i.e. BoD systems for ALL the crafting skills (carpentry, tinkering, fletching, inscription, alchemy, glassblowing, stonecrafting etc.)
More consumable rewards that are actually useful, like PoF.
Reducing the item count that BoD books take up. (All other books take up only 1 item count.)
I'm sure I'm forgetting lots of things.
i.e. BoD systems for ALL the crafting skills (carpentry, tinkering, fletching, inscription, alchemy, glassblowing, stonecrafting etc.)
More consumable rewards that are actually useful, like PoF.
Reducing the item count that BoD books take up. (All other books take up only 1 item count.)
I'm sure I'm forgetting lots of things.
This newsletter has me worried about BODs now. "Randomness from reward deliveries" as the newsletter puts it, barely even hits the radar with the real problems the BOD system has. I don't know the plan so my concerns might be misplaced, but I feel it is necessary to reiterate the problems with BODs:
1. Quantity 15 - A completely arbitrary complication that, in the current reward framework, makes no sense.
2. Bribing - This is some of the randomness that needs to get cut out of the system. It's also annoying that bribing of all things is a necessity to get value from BODs.
3. Large orders require small orders - Extremely bad idea, I don't think I need to explain this one. This one absolutely has to change or else I am tossing all my LBODs for good. LBODs are a complete waste of time right now.
4. Rewards tied to specific BODs - Here is where my concern is relating to the newsletter. I want a reward list points system. Let every BOD have value. Not only that, but high level rewards, like val runic hammers, shouldn't depend on the rarity of specific BODs, or having to obtain 2000 valorite ingots to redeem.
The BOD system is simply a method of converting ingots into rewards, nothing more. A crafter's ability to do BODs is limited by their ingot supply, and the only reason a crafter should ever be storing BODs, is because they don't have enough ingots on hand to complete them. All BODs should have value. No BODs should be tossed on the ground because they have an undesirable reward.
1. Quantity 15 - A completely arbitrary complication that, in the current reward framework, makes no sense.
2. Bribing - This is some of the randomness that needs to get cut out of the system. It's also annoying that bribing of all things is a necessity to get value from BODs.
3. Large orders require small orders - Extremely bad idea, I don't think I need to explain this one. This one absolutely has to change or else I am tossing all my LBODs for good. LBODs are a complete waste of time right now.
4. Rewards tied to specific BODs - Here is where my concern is relating to the newsletter. I want a reward list points system. Let every BOD have value. Not only that, but high level rewards, like val runic hammers, shouldn't depend on the rarity of specific BODs, or having to obtain 2000 valorite ingots to redeem.
The BOD system is simply a method of converting ingots into rewards, nothing more. A crafter's ability to do BODs is limited by their ingot supply, and the only reason a crafter should ever be storing BODs, is because they don't have enough ingots on hand to complete them. All BODs should have value. No BODs should be tossed on the ground because they have an undesirable reward.
That's what I asked for at one of the town halls, but as I read the letter, I dont think we are getting it. Probably gonna end up with some overthought overwrought overly complicated formula to have to figure out.
Hell, just assign every filled bod a certain point value for clean up Brit...and add the BOD rewards to that list. Just remember, we all want straight forward and relatively simple, with no RNG guessing games any longer
Thanks for the feedback. I want to specifically talk about point #4 for a moment, since we addressed that in the newsletter specifically. When looking at the BOD system as a whole, and the idea of allowing banking BOD "points" we run into a major imbalance.
Let's take blacksmithing and Valorite runic hammers as an example. As it stands now, that item is only available from large Valorite BODs for exceptional plate suits. Were we to allow banking of points you could bank the requisite number of small, normal blacksmithing BODs to bank enough points to get the Valorite hammer or whatever high end reward you may desire. At that point why even have BODs for anything but low end iron items? What incentive is there to put time into filling large BODs (I know you think their current implementation is burdensome, but that is a topic for another post)...regardless there needs to be a give and take with balance of cost of time to material rarity and overall crafting difficulty and "just" allowing a banking/selection type systems does not provide for that.
That all being said, thoughtful, constructive feedback like this is extremely helpful and we look forward to a continued dialogue as we work through this feature!
Can we take this as a suggestion to keep tossing the low end iron bods, as they still won't be useful for anything decent?
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I think this will go hand in hand with the randomization of resources.
Personally I don't mind filling large bods...but when you get one for a a large plate val....and val is EXTREMELY hard to find even with a prospector tool....the subject of un-randomizing resources comes up again.....yes we have prospector tools and those cool rewards from Cora but not many people either A. Are aware of those or B. Bother to do that (We've done it a few times but not many people are interested in it)
SO yes, there are ways to guarantee you get the higher-end resources but I don't think it's enough for the casual resource gatherer such as myself.
Personally I don't mind filling large bods...but when you get one for a a large plate val....and val is EXTREMELY hard to find even with a prospector tool....the subject of un-randomizing resources comes up again.....yes we have prospector tools and those cool rewards from Cora but not many people either A. Are aware of those or B. Bother to do that (We've done it a few times but not many people are interested in it)
SO yes, there are ways to guarantee you get the higher-end resources but I don't think it's enough for the casual resource gatherer such as myself.
Wouldn't you be better off just tweaking the system to include more
Small bods into different large bods and accumulate points based on the large bods?
You could then select the reward based on those large bods.
Maybe those could give low use (10-50 uses tops) special mining implements that warrants 100% success for a specific coloured ore when one mines rather than those sturdy shovels and prospector tools?
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I recently started mining again on a casual basis and do not see the need to change the current randomization. Some people have suggested that this would somehow even the playing field between scripters and non-scripters, but I think it would do the opposite - scripters would just strip out all of the ore from the areas that spawn higher end metals and end up controlling/dominating the market for these items. Unfortunately, there's no easy solution to this.
I think taking an example such as what @Bealank suggested is a better way to deal with this issue. Could offer new BOD reward for some type of mining tool that offers 90%+ chance of getting high end ore. Additionally, this would be the type of item I'd gladly pay for in the Online Store.
I think taking an example such as what @Bealank suggested is a better way to deal with this issue. Could offer new BOD reward for some type of mining tool that offers 90%+ chance of getting high end ore. Additionally, this would be the type of item I'd gladly pay for in the Online Store.
I dont think so. If the mining ressources arent radomized any miner can get the ressource he want, so if you dont need enorm masses of ressources there is no need for buying them. If you need for example about 2000 Valorite for a large 20 exc plate Bod nowadays it would take like forever to get the amount you need by mining. You can block scripters in tram by blocking their recall spot and in fel you can just kill them. At the moment the only ore thats worth mining for might be dull copper or normal iron. I was mining alot before randomizing. Today I almost never go mining cause its not worth the time.
Thanks for the response Kyronix. Your point about whether anyone would do high end BODs when they can just stack low-ends is a good point. I have a few things to say about that.
First, and please correct me if I am wrong here, but do not all metals have a relative value to each other based on mining yield proportions? In other words, if a GM miner digging through rotating mining spots will typically get the same approximate percentages of all metals, that would mean that a valorite ingot's value is X-times an iron ingot. Thus every BOD necessarily has a measurable value based on the total number of ingots required to complete it - this in my mind would be the basis of a points system. In my mind, to acquire a high end reward with low-end BODs in this concept would require a massive number of BODs, and resources equivalent to doing high end BODs.
This leads to my second point - there is a soft limit on BOD generation. While you can get a new BOD every time you turn one in (and this is one of the changes that I really liked), eventually you're going to wind up with higher end BODs that you have to turn in to continue. Sure, a player can toss these on the ground and wait for more irons, but now they have to wait, and in this way there is a time penalty. Bear in mind, I still think that BOD generation should be random, so a player cannot always rely on getting irons over and over.
So ultimately what I am getting to, in answering your point about why would anyone bother doing high end BODs or LBODs in this concept, is that every BOD and LBOD would have value. I believe players would do higher end BODs and LBODs because those BODs are worth points that go towards getting the rewards they want, and those point values are relative to the mining value of metals. Sure, they can toss them or sell them, but that just means they won't be getting their rewards as quickly as those that fill them. Also bear in mind, I am imagining a world without bribery, where crafters fill the BODs that they receive from NPCs. I mean if we wanted to get a little crazy here, since BODs have their own kind of rarity, with high end BODs being harder to get, what if their point value was disproportionately higher to a certain extent?
Two more items of feedback - I also think normal/exceptional should be done away with it. For a Legendary Smith, it is hardly ever a factor, and doesn't affect ingot use except in the case of platemail BODs. Second, gold ore needs to be removed from the gold elementals in Blackthorn's Dungeon. I realize that seems totally unrelated, but as I view BODs as a system of converting ingots to rewards, those gold elementals completely sidestep mining in an unbalanced way. I don't say this lightly either because I abuse the hell out of that room. The way it works now, it is fairly simple to bribe up BODs to gold - normal gets you powder, and exceptional gets you a copper runic, and easily filled with the abundant gold from the gold elementals. I don't think it should work like that even though I greatly benefit from it.
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There's probably 10 people in my guild alone that do it without scripting, so not sure where your figures come from.
Some players like this "mind numbing" content. While the number of people who actually craft aren't as strong as it was in the past, plenty of people still do these things. I also find it odd that you call this content mind-numbing...and then in other threads have called doing the Roof from the Shadowguard encounters not worth your time. Not everyone can be a rare's collector I suppose.
And the "official forums" would probably be the biggest time waster of all. What makes you think it's a good idea for developers to waste any time/effort or even a dime of their revenue to have to baby sit official forums?
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*Taps his pipe deep in thought..*
Lets see I know at least 20+ people personally that like working bods and do so on a regular basis. Woo Hoo I literally know all the people playing the Bod system!
*Considers the reality of the statement*
There is no way I know all the Players enjoying the bod system in a world wide game.
*Settles back into his chair to consider the greater ramifications of that statement*
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I think a better way to combat this would be to make it more worth while to get Vertie and Agapite runics/rewards, and for there to be more you can do with Shadow Iron, Bronze ingots, etc. But that would constitute making some changes to the way those items/resources work and how RNG affects your end results in crafting, which is probably an entirely separate topic and a way more complicated change.
Valorite shouldn't be as easy as 1, 2, 3 to mine up, smelt and make a BoD. That's why its often the most valuable in terms of rewards. It's a tough balance for sure, but I just don't think anything good would come from turning off randomization.
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I mine a lot as I find its relaxing. I am fine with the randomization of the process. It is a thrill to find a nice class of material.
I am curious why it would matter?
X number of small BOD = X amount of time = High End Reward vs Luck of the RNG = High End Reward
Its kind of like saying why would people only collect single dollar bills if what they really want is hundred dollar bills. Who cares if they do a little work many times or alot of work all at once to earn $100?
Balance the amount of points it takes to get a val hammer with low BoD points and move on.
I guess I am one of those few that still do BODs and have over 70 vendors full of BODs. I have books filled with filled BODs for PoF and low end hammers. I have every town Banner and all of those points to become Adored is from BODs. DAMN I do a lot of BODs and have a lot more to fill.
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Kyronix, the following would go a LONG way to fix Smith BODs. I even suggested it as long ago as the High Seas announcement conference at Fairfax.
The primary problem with BODs is the BOD decision tree, and that it is getting skewed by the non-combinables.
Issues (with the BOD system)
The following table illustrates the main flaw with the Blacksmith BOD system.
[xtable=skin1|@x174]
{tbody}
{tr}
{td}Base Skill{/td}
{td}Weapon Small BOD{/td}
{td=112x@}Weapon Large BOD{/td}
{td=107x@}Iron Armor Small BOD Combinable{/td}
{td=128x@}Iron Armor Small BOD Non-Combinable{/td}
{td=124x@}Colored Armor Small BOD Combinable{/td}
{td=123x@}Colored Armor Small BOD Non-Combinable{/td}
{td=70x@}Iron Armor Large BODs{/td}
{td=84x@}Colored Armor Large BODs{/td}
{/tr}
{tr}
{td=center}zero-70 {/td}
{td=center}50%{/td}
{td=center|112x@}N.A.{/td}
{td=center|107x@}27.08%{/td}
{td=center|128x@}22.92%{/td}
{td=center|124x@}N.A.{/td}
{td=center|123x@}N.A.{/td}
{td=center|70x@}N.A.{/td}
{td=center|84x@}N.A.{/td}
{/tr}
{tr=center}
{td}70{/td}
{td}46%{/td}
{td=112x@}4%{/td}
{td=107x@}12.46%{/td}
{td=128x@}10.54%{/td}
{td=124x@}12.46%{/td}
{td=123x@}10.54%{/td}
{td=70x@}2%{/td}
{td=84x@}2%{/td}
{/tr}
{tr=center}
{td}110{/td}
{td}46%{/td}
{td=112x@}4%{/td}
{td=107x@}7.475%{/td}
{td=128x@}6.325%{/td}
{td=124x@}17.44%{/td}
{td=123x@}14.76%{/td}
{td=70x@}1.2%{/td}
{td=84x@}2.8%{/td}
{/tr}
{tr=center}
{td}120{/td}
{td}46%{/td}
{td=112x@}4%{/td}
{td=107x@}2.49%{/td}
{td=128x@}2.11%{/td}
{td=124x@}22.425%{/td}
{td=123x@}18.975%{/td}
{td=70x@}0.4%{/td}
{td=84x@}3.6%{/td}
{/tr}
{tr}
{td=center} {/td}
{td=center} {/td}
{td=center|112x@} {/td}
{td=center|107x@} {/td}
{td=center|128x@} {/td}
{td=center|124x@} {/td}
{td=center|123x@} {/td}
{td=center|70x@} {/td}
{td=center|84x@} {/td}
{/tr}
{/tbody}
[/xtable]
This table assumes that there is a "Weapon" vs. "Armor" choice on the decision tree. If there isn't (i.e. like tailor BODs) and the choice is 1/49, then the numbers get even worse, as there are 25 weapon smalls compared to 24 armor smalls, and 5 Weapon LBODs compared to 3 Armor LBODs (which would make the split at 70-109.9 skill 5% Weapon LBOD, 1.5% each Iron & colored Armor LBODs). In many ways, the table above is the BEST CASE scenario.
50% of the BODs are Weapons. The best rewards one can get from the Weapons BODs are 3 larges with a 20% chance of Powder of Fortifying, and one Large with a 90% chance of POF.
By 120 skill, the non-combinable Armor smalls (best reward being POF or Hammers up through Bronze - good for Imbuing, but sucks for runic crafting) are 21%+ of the BODs with 1/10 of those being Iron. That amounts to 71% of the BODs not being part of an Armor LBOD in any way.
Of the remaining 29%, 1/10 are iron, which would take way too many bribes to fit most colored LBODs. The remainder have a sliding scale of something resembling 8/7/6/5/4/3/2/1 for chances of being the various colors, from Dull Copper up to Valorite. Half will also be Normal, which in turn will require an additional bribe to get into the Larges worth filling (A large normal is the equivalent of a large exceptional FOUR ore types worse). The end result is that there is a massive shortage of colored armor BODs that can be combined with larges, compared to the number of colored Larges, since 11/24 smalls are non-combinables, and don't factor into the generation of larges.
The ways to fix this without substantially altering the current BOD system:
1. Either delete the non-combinable smalls from the system, or Introduce a Shield LBOD and Helmet LBOD
2. Have the chance of Weapon BODs reduce at 110 & 120 the way the current system reduces Iron vs. color for Armor BODs. If there is currently a weapons vs. armor split in the system, this is easy. If not (and it's like Tailor BODs where all BODs are taken from the same pool), you'd need to figure out a way to put the divide in and then the reduction method.
2.a. Alternatively, having the Iron vs. colored split be determined before "weapon vs. armor", then if the result is "colored" diverting the BODs to ONLY be from the Armor side would also work.
3. At one point (during LBR or AoS), there was supposed to be a change to the Normal/Exceptional split from 50/50 to 40/60 at GM Blacksmithing. Sometime around Mondain's Legacy, this disappeared (if it was ever implemented). Actually (re)implementing it would be an additional boon.
4. And, reworking the low-end BOD rewards would also be a good thing - while I love Gargoyle Pickaxes, there's too many sturdy tools and Prospector's Tools (And sone people would argue the same about the GPA). The Mining gloves are a bit too easy as well. (Of course, the Tailor BODS have this far worse).
Please do not do this because the EXP IRON ones get bribed up to give PoF. I you do this, then the only thing left will be EXP IRON Armor BODs for this. Also the small iron mostly get filled for training or they are filled and turned in to get more BODs.
They should just come out with a point system and make it a lot, i mean a lot of iron BODs to get a VAL Hammer.
Apply those changes to as many different systems in UO, just about everyone would be happy.
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Strange how I have over 100 POF and most of them were from colored combinables that would have cost too much to bribe past DC or Shadow, or were for crap like normal gold or agapite ringmail smalls.
But, yes, the better choice would be to add a 4-part Helmet large and a 6-part Shield large. That would still leave the Female plate without a large, and people could still bribe up to exceptional iron smalls to DC (as many already do for ironring and chain smalls)
I have 500 Dull filled Helmet/shields and 400 Shadow Helmet/shields BODS just waiting to be turned in when I need them.