Trial By Jury

[Llewen]

you never answered the question though, was that you on baja today ?

No it was not. I play on Cats...

But when there are 3 or 4 particular people who(when they really want me dead) will hot-key their proggie and hunt me down in a straight line, run past me then dance around me while I'm trying to change direction, then again run past me all the time doing MoveShot then, well, **** that. And the same goes for casters who literally EBolt me on the run, who just happen to be played by the same players as those archers.

I'm not saying this doesn't happen, I just know I've never seen it. I'll just repeat what I've said. I know I don't speed hack, and I've never seen anyone move faster than I, unless I was lagging, where I could be sure of our relative speeds, since I came back 8 months ago. Which leads me to believe that I've never seen anyone speed hack since I came back.

news flash: I am a UOurist.. call it UOP call it UOURE.. I don't care. but I think a lot of people agree with me. the "SA client" to me, IS cheating. I hate to say it. but it is.

This is beyond ridiculous. It's an official client released by the developers of the game. You may not like it, and you may think it gives an unfair advantage, but to call it "cheating" is asinine and simply shows you don't understand the definition of the word.

no amount of thumb action is going to make you faster or to better evade your enemy, yet that's exactly what you are indirectly saying.
nobody gives a rats ahse it's more difficult to use, who cares. the topic is why have your peers stamped you as a speeder. no lateral sidestepping on your part(any speediers part really) explains squat.'

There's something else about movement with a thumb joystick that you clearly don't understand. There is no acceleration. Because of the way the cursor keys work in the Enhanced Client (which you have to bind to your joystick), you are always moving at top speed. It's an on/off switch essentially.

With the Classic Client you can accelerate quickly, but it isn't instant like it is when using the cursor keys on the Enhanced client. You still have a momentary acceleration while you move your cursor away from your toon. This may seem insignificant, but it isn't. Movement in UO is a matter of hundredths of seconds, and what might seem like a very small advantage can make a very big difference.

 

[Coppelia]

This is beyond ridiculous. It's an official client released by the developers of the game. You may not like it, and you may think it gives an unfair advantage, but to call it "cheating" is asinine and simply shows you don't understand the definition of the word.

Not so ridiculous. Look at third party programs. To be allowed, they should not look in the data stream, not catch things and reinject others. The EULA forbids anyone to make money on UO's content. However, UOA is allowed. Tell me by which magic code UOA can manage your pots drinking after you target one of the pots? Why is that UOA launches the game by itself and add information on the title bar of the window? And UOA gives a big advantage over those who don't use it. And you must pay the editor of UOA. Yet it's been allowed. There was a little tweak because the automatic looping of macro was frowned upon, but other than that, UOA is 100% legit.
I'm sorry but a lot of people consider UOA as a cheating tool, even if it's officially allowed.
Cheating is not respecting the rules. When someone changes the rules, others may call it cheating. That's all.

 

[Lord Chaos]

And Llewen, I deeply despise people like you who ruin my game and as such ruin the fun of the game.

Far worse than even the worst cheater or duper.

 

[Llewen]

news flash: I am a UOurist.. call it UOP call it UOURE.. I don't care. but I think a lot of people agree with me. the "SA client" to me, IS cheating. I hate to say it. but it is.

This is beyond ridiculous. It's an official client released by the developers of the game. You may not like it, and you may think it gives an unfair advantage, but to call it "cheating" is asinine and simply shows you don't understand the definition of the word.

Not so ridiculous. Look at third party programs. To be allowed, they should not look in the data stream, not catch things and reinject others. The EULA forbids anyone to make money on UO's content. However, UOA is allowed. Tell me by which magic code UOA can manage your pots drinking after you target one of the pots? Why is that UOA launches the game by itself and add information on the title bar of the window? And UOA gives a big advantage over those who don't use it. And you must pay the editor of UOA. Yet it's been allowed. There was a little tweak because the automatic looping of macro was frowned upon, but other than that, UOA is 100% legit.
I'm sorry but a lot of people consider UOA as a cheating tool, even if it's officially allowed.
Cheating is not respecting the rules. When someone changes the rules, others may call it cheating. That's all.

UOA did start off as a cheat, and the developers took the "If you can't beat them join them" approach. I have some sympathy for that decision because this was in the days before Cheating Death, or Punk Buster and ways of effectively fighting these cheats hadn't been dreamt up, so they imagined that if they could control these apps they could restore some of the integrity of the game, and the only way they could control these apps was by making them a part of the UO Pro program and giving them official approval.

However, when UOA was officially approved, it by definition ceased to be a cheat. And to call an official client a "cheat" is even more ridiculous. You may not like it, you may not think it is fair, but it is certainly not a cheat. If you don't like it, offer feedback and ask for it to be changed, don't run around trying to ruin the reputations of those who legitimately use it and in no way are doing anything wrong in the process.

And Llewen, I deeply despise people like you who ruin my game and as such ruin the fun of the game.

Far worse than even the worst cheater or duper.

Great, if you despise me, given your stance on a whole range of issues, I'm clearly doing something right. I think I'll reward myself with a cookie...

 

[Violence]

If it is a fact that people speed hack and have been for more than the past 8 months(which it is), yet you insist you have noticed none then either :

- You're not as perceptive as about 90% of the player-base.
- Do not know what to look for.
- Idealizing the game's state due to you enjoying a streak of success in your favourite activity.
- Have shut out the facts for some other reason.
- Have been TREMENDOUSLY lucky in your times of logging in in accordance to the cheaters' schedules and habbits or lucky in selecting an un-populated server(maybe major cheating players have transfered for the time being).
- ...Or simply cheating.. And by that I am not referring to using the EC or a DPad obviously.

Another possibility is that since cheaters have become more careful, something I already mentioned, due to EA/M's recent "promises" regarding the issue of cheating... Could be combined with some of the above scenarios, giving you a false image.
Only you said "8 months" so that's one possibility out of the window for sure.. 8 months ago cheating was peaking, seriously.

Which of these are true I care not, I'm not accusing you of anything and I certainly have no appetite to play the detective here. It's just that it's a dead-end of an exchange of replies, these are the facts, simple as that. Not a matter of what you or I believe at this point. Not even a case that could be argued further really!

Accepting that cheating may not be a myth, yet in the same sentence stating openly that you have personally seen no cheater at all for the past 8 months so you cannot acknowledge cheats' continued use, even though there is evidence enough to warrant cheating counter-measures on EA/M's side(since you will not accept anything else as evidence as I see).... Is simply not possible.

Not to mention you've participated in discussions concerning cheating in the past 4 months for sure, and I MAY be wrong but weren't you at one point saying you too suffer from speed hacking's effects on the game? I seem to remember it was in a particular thread in which I had replied as well. But hey, I may be wrong. rolleyes: If I'm right though, I have to wonder how come you took a 180 on this.

And what shard are you on, by the way? *EDIT* Okay spotted your reply to that..

Also meant to add that "Always Run", the "Desolation=Off" default and the option that keeps you mobile when hitting obstacles of the EC also will never, ever bear the same results as speed hacking. Again, I've been using those. I'm using the EC. Same connection, same machine. Same people. Same fights. VERY prominent differences(if I don't care to be discreet) with and without the cheat. No amount of tinkering with the EC, buying accessories, messing with your computer or your connection or training, will ever bear the same results as using cheats.

I'll start doubting your innocense for real if you next bring up the "I heal faster without any medic-scripts!" arguement.. ;P

 

[Llewen]

If it is a fact that people speed hack and have been for more than the past 8 months(which it is), yet you insist you have noticed none then either :

- You're not as perceptive as about 90% of the player-base.
- Do not know what to look for.
- Idealizing the game's state due to you enjoying a streak of success in your favourite activity.
- Have shut out the facts for some other reason.
- Have been TREMENDOUSLY lucky in your times of logging in in accordance to the cheaters' schedules and habbits or lucky in selecting an un-populated server(maybe major cheating players have transfered for the time being).
- ...Or simply cheating.. And by that I am not referring to using the EC or a DPad obviously.

Another possibility is that since cheaters have become more careful, something I already mentioned, due to EA/M's recent "promises" regarding the issue of cheating... Could be combined with some of the above scenarios, giving you a false image.
Only you said "8 months" so that's one possibility out of the window for sure.. 8 months ago cheating was peaking, seriously.

Which of these are true I care not, I'm not accusing you of anything and I certainly have no appetite to play the detective here. It's just that it's a dead-end of an exchange of replies, these are the facts, simple as that. Not a matter of what you or I believe at this point. Not even a case that could be argued further really!

Accepting that cheating may not be a myth, yet in the same sentence stating openly that you have personally seen no cheater at all for the past 8 months so you cannot acknowledge cheats' continued use, even though there is evidence enough to warrant cheating counter-measures on EA/M's side(since you will not accept anything else as evidence as I see).... Is simply not possible.

Not to mention you've participated in discussions concerning cheating in the past 4 months for sure, and I MAY be wrong but weren't you at one point saying you too suffer from speed hacking's effects on the game? I seem to remember it was in a particular thread in which I had replied as well. But hey, I may be wrong. rolleyes: If I'm right though, I have to wonder how come you took a 180 on this.

And what shard are you on, by the way? *EDIT* Okay spotted your reply to that..

Also meant to add that "Always Run", the "Desolation=Off" default and the option that keeps you mobile when hitting obstacles of the EC also will never, ever bear the same results as speed hacking. Again, I've been using those. I'm using the EC. Same connection, same machine. Same people. Same fights. VERY prominent differences(if I don't care to be discreet) with and without the cheat. No amount of tinkering with the EC, buying accessories, messing with your computer or your connection or training, will ever bear the same results as using cheats.

Well, I spent an hour typing a brilliant reply to this and lost it somehow when I fat fingered some keys. Let's try again. This is going to be long because it is going to take a lot of explaining, so please bear with me.

I'll just preface this by saying that while some may find my position on the topic of cheating in general, and speed hacking specifically, somewhat confusing, I have always been consistent. And while it might make me more popular to start ranting about speed hacking, it wouldn't be the truth, and I prefer to tell the truth.

I quit playing for about two years, three years ago. Back then I thought I saw evidence of "speed hacking", but I never really had anything objective to base my opinion on. I came back to UO around eight months ago, and the difference between then and now is that now I do have a way I can objectively say whether or not someone is speed hacking, in certain specific situations.

I've never had a high end computer and that was as true then as it is now. Back then it was an Athlon XP 1700+ and by the time I quit it was at least two or three years old, if not older. Not only that, but back then I played the classic client, and I also pvp'd primarily on foot. My style of pvp has changed completely since I came back.

So what has changed? Well for one thing I have a different computer, it is still low end, but it is less than two years old and it is more than capable of running either client well enough so that my movement speed isn't affected, which probably wasn't the case three years ago. I also pvp mostly mounted now, and last, but most importantly, I have switched to the enhanced client.

Now I know I don't speed hack. Other than a few friends whose opinion I truly do value, whether anyone believes me or not isn't all that important to me, but I know that I don't speed hack. It has also become clear to me that I consistently move at the top speed the client will allow, and I will get into that a bit further down. Knowing that I don't speed hack, and knowing that I move at the top speed the client will allow gives me an objective base line with which to compare the movement rates of others.

Now I obviously can't just look at someone and know whether they are speed hacking or not. I might think they are moving fast or slow, but I have no real way of knowing. The only time I can know for sure whether anyone is moving faster or slower than I am is if we are both moving at top speed in the same direction.

This obviously doesn't happen all the time, but now that I fight mounted most of the time, it happens fairly often. And I can state categorically that in those situations since I came back eight months ago I have never, not even once, in hundreds of hours of pvp'ing, seen anyone move faster than I do, unless there was a clear reason that explained why they were moving faster than I was. And most of the time in those situations I'm also not moving faster than those I am chasing or being chased by.

What do I mean by "clear reason", and how can I be so certain that there is a clear reason? Well it has to do with the way the enhanced client handles lag. With the classic client, when you are lagging you actually slow down. That slowing in movement speed can actually be pretty subtle and it can be hard at times to even know that you have slowed down because you are lagging, unless it becomes quite severe.

With the enhanced client there is nothing subtle about it. The enhanced client handles lag better than the classic client does, and most of the time it won't have much of an effect at all on your game play or movement rate, but when lag becomes severe, the effects are obvious. You don't slow down, you simply stop. When you are lagging in the enhanced client it is really easy to tell because you will move at top speed, then you will stop for a split second, then you will continue moving at top speed.

I haven't always escaped those who were chasing me, but when I have been caught, it has always been clear why. It has been because of some form of lag, either some form of connectivity issue, or because I have crossed a server boundary. Now until recently if I crossed a server boundary, I'm guessing because of my low end computer, it would seem that others were loading the new area faster than I was, so I often got caught.

But oddly enough since I switched to Windows 7 64 and since I did some tweaking, and since publish 66, I find that I now generally load new areas faster than my opponents, so I tend to lose my opponents now when I cross a server boundary, or even when I move through areas with lots of objects, such as vendors or highly decorated housing.

So this leads to the last item on the agenda for this particular novel. Do I think cheating is a myth? Simply put, no, and I have never said that. I have said that I suspect that "speed hacking" may well be a myth, based on what I have explained in this post, that I have never seen any objective evidence of it.

In my opinion the real issue when it comes to cheating, in every part of the game, from crafting, to pvm, to pvp, isn't "speed hacking", it is scripting. And that is a very real problem in my opinion. I won't go into that in great detail here, other than to say that I have seen real evidence of that, and from my days when I had access to the Vent of a pvp guild, I know that scripting is a real issue, and it is a real issue that runs both broad and deep in every aspect of the UO game.

I happen to think health scripts are a real issue in pvp, but when it comes to that, I don't have an objective base line the way I do with the speed hacking issue, so there is a very real possibility that I could be wrong about that.

THE END - please, oh please, let it be THE END...

 

[mjolnir131]

Not so ridiculous. Look at third party programs. To be allowed, they should not look in the data stream, not catch things and reinject others. The EULA forbids anyone to make money on UO's content. However, UOA is allowed. Tell me by which magic code UOA can manage your pots drinking after you target one of the pots? Why is that UOA launches the game by itself and add information on the title bar of the window? And UOA gives a big advantage over those who don't use it. And you must pay the editor of UOA. Yet it's been allowed. There was a little tweak because the automatic looping of macro was frowned upon, but other than that, UOA is 100% legit.
I'm sorry but a lot of people consider UOA as a cheating tool, even if it's officially allowed.
Cheating is not respecting the rules. When someone changes the rules, others may call it cheating. That's all.

Totally absurd apples and oranges your comparing the client the dev team produces compared to an out of house "tool".

 

[Coppelia]

Totally absurd apples and oranges your comparing the client the dev team produces compared to an out of house "tool".

That's not the orginal dev team. The original designer not being in the team anymore, they're not different from an out of house. They're adding what seem good for them.
But even if it was the same team, when there's a change of rules someone will call the new tool cheating. It's like an expansion of a card trading game, there are always players looking at the new cards and saying they don't fit, it's cheating. And if they play with their old cards, the new rules of the expansion will give them a disadvantage. Can't they say it's not the same game anymore and they don't want the new cards? If they choose not to play with them, then playing a new card will be cheating to them.
So it's basically the same here. Some players feel the new rules of the new client aren't their game anymore, that it's cheating. You can belittle them all you want, they'll still feel cheated in the process. So don't play the smart one and try to understand them. :/

 

[Llewen]

- ...Or simply cheating.. And by that I am not referring to using the EC or a DPad obviously.

And seeing as it seems to me that I have been forced to defend my reputation in this thread, I might as well finish the job. Throughout the time I have been on Stratics I have been absolutely scathing in my criticism of the dev team and their handling of the issues around cheating. I could post all kinds of links, but you can find them almost as easily as I can.

I have stated on more than one occasion that the cancellation of Punk Buster was the worst development decision made in the history of the game. I have been consistently in the front row of the cheering squad when positive announcements regarding the fight against cheating have been made, and even more so when third party app detection was announced - although I admit I was at first sceptical.

But I have consistently and actively campaigned against cheating, and the culture of cheating that exists in UO, and has throughout it's history. I have consistently and actively campaigned for the third party cheat detection that we are finally seeing. And as far as I know "speed hacks" rely on third party apps. Why, oh why, would I be campaigning so hard for their eradication if I was using them myself?

I would think if I was using them myself I would be doing what LC has consistently done, that is campaigned against the implementation of third party app detection, and tried to obfuscate and confuse the issues surrounding the use of third party cheats, and cheating in general.

Now you might say, well I'm trying to distract attention away from my own use of those cheats. But that also makes no sense because there is no tie between my UO accounts, and this Stratics account, and I very much doubt that any of the GM's who will actually be enforcing the rules spend much time reading Stratics.

That I would be using speed hacks myself simply makes no sense. And if you know me in game, you would know that I move at the same speed, almost all the time, no matter where I am. That's because with cursor key controlled movement in the EC there is only one speed, and that is as fast as you can go.

From what I have heard of speed hacks they can be toggled off and on. Again, why, oh why would I be using a speed hack in some place like Luna bank, or Haven, where there is absolutely no advantage to using them, and all kinds of witnesses around to report me? You would think that if I was actually using them, especially with the implementation of third party app detection, that I am keenly aware of, as is evident in all my posts on the subject, that I would at the very least only toggle them on in situations where using them will actually gain me an advantage.

The only conclusions are, either I am completely insane, I'm a complete idiot, I am trying hard to get permanently banned because I actually hate the game, or I'm not using any cheats. I guess which option you choose will depend on how much you personally dislike me, but putting personal feelings aside, I would think there is only one clear conclusion among those four...

 

[Lord Chaos]

Great, if you despise me, given your stance on a whole range of issues, I'm clearly doing something right. I think I'll reward myself with a cookie...

Well, if you truly believe ruining the game for others, especially to suit your gameplay is "doing things right", then you're really no better than the worst of cheaters, which you so clearly hate.

I really do not want to see more legit people quit ontop of everything else.

 

[Lord Chaos]

I would think if I was using them myself I would be doing what LC has consistently done, that is campaigned against the implementation of third party app detection, and tried to obfuscate and confuse the issues surrounding the use of third party cheats, and cheating in general.

Actually, you'd be wrong. Cheaters would not want to draw that kind of attention to themselves and would seek to distance themselves from the whole thing for the most part. Especially if you were a prominent person.

 

[Lord Chaos]

I happen to think health scripts are a real issue in pvp

As several PvPers have stated, you can heal/cure/eat much better manually than you can with a script. A script takes time to react, more than a human. Its only beneficial for those who can't manage so many keys or don't have some l33t hardware to do it for them.

Also scripts give you a disadvantage in PvP, as it will always react to certain things, which an opponent can pick up on and respond in ways that will deadlock or mess up the script.

 

[Llewen]

Well, if you truly believe ruining the game for others, especially to suit your gameplay is "doing things right", then you're really no better than the worst of cheaters, which you so clearly hate.

I really do not want to see more legit people quit ontop of everything else.

And you need to give it up. You've lost. Third part cheat detection is here, and it isn't going away. And guess what? The world hasn't ended yet. Maybe next year in December, but not so far...

I would think if I was using them myself I would be doing what LC has consistently done, that is campaigned against the implementation of third party app detection, and tried to obfuscate and confuse the issues surrounding the use of third party cheats, and cheating in general.

Actually, you'd be wrong. Cheaters would not want to draw that kind of attention to themselves and would seek to distance themselves from the whole thing for the most part. Especially if you were a prominent person.

Sorry, but that logic doesn't hold any water. As I've already stated, there is no tie between your Stratics and game accounts, so whether you draw attention to yourself or not is irrelevant.

 

[ingsmsico]

bottom line: UO PvP is ruined and there's nothing that is ever going to be done about it. they might as well just bring power/stat scrolls to Trammel and get rid of factions and be done with it once and for all.

 

[Llewen]

bottom line: UO PvP is ruined and there's nothing that is ever going to be done about it.

I'm not sure where you are coming from with that statement. In the past you've argued against third party cheat detection, so I'm not sure in the context of this thread what exactly you are saying. The pvp itself is as balanced and interesting as it has ever been, but I do know that on my shard the pvp scene isn't as active as it has been in the past.

Whether that's because of summer, or whether that is because some who are dependent on unapproved third party apps in pvp aren't playing for fear of the consequences, I don't know. But my feeling is that it will eventually sort itself out, and people are still actively raiding on my shard so if anyone ever gets desperate for pvp all they need to do is fire up a champ spawn...

 

[ingsmsico]

I'm not sure where you are coming from with that statement. In the past you've argued against third party cheat detection, so I'm not sure in the context of this thread what exactly you are saying. The pvp itself is as balanced and interesting as it has ever been, but I do know that on my shard the pvp scene isn't as active as it has been in the past.

Whether that's because of summer, or whether that is because some who are dependent on unapproved third party apps in pvp aren't playing for fear of the consequences, I don't know. But my feeling is that it will eventually sort itself out, and people are still actively raiding on my shard so if anyone ever gets desperate for pvp all they need to do is fire up a champ spawn...

this coming from someone who uses "SA client" a known cheat program to UO Purists. (not cheating in UO rulebook so don't start your rant about that again, only cheating in the mind UO Purists)

bottom line: SA client is not UOure approved, you get an advantage to using it over players using UO client, so therefore it is a cheat program (again, in my eyes)

you can try to change my mind, but you will not be able to.

also, no one is getting banned for "cheating" or "speedhacking" or anything. people openly talk about what programs they are using on test center. if you think they only use them on test center you are in the clouds.

 

[Lord Chaos]

And you need to give it up. You've lost. Third part cheat detection is here, and it isn't going away. And guess what? The world hasn't ended yet. Maybe next year in December, but not so far...

Actually it has started, less people playing, events cancelled and so on. And thats just the beginning.

Sorry, but that logic doesn't hold any water. As I've already stated, there is no tie between your Stratics and game accounts, so whether you draw attention to yourself or not is irrelevant.

Whether there's a tie between accounts or not, you're clearly very vested in your board image and as such wouldn't want to tie them together, nor risk having someone find out who your real characters are in game and as such label you as a cheater.

I am outspoken because I have nothing to hide.

 

[Sergul'zan_SP]

And what do we do with witches?

Burn 'em!!!!

Congrats on your conviction...not everybody gets that much attention. You make the EC veyr appealing..but I still don't like it :-D. The movement seems like gliding rather than walking.

 

[Llewen]

Whether there's a tie between accounts or not, you're clearly very vested in your board image and as such wouldn't want to tie them together, nor risk having someone find out who your real characters are in game and as such label you as a cheater.

I am outspoken because I have nothing to hide.

Catskills

Llewen Faerlyght - my "main" character
Baruk
Glaen Sinbourne
Psuhlen
Glub Thubcruft

and more. I could list them all if you like, but sometimes I have a hard time remembering the names of all my characters.

I'm as well known on Catskills as I am here. Feel free to look me up any time. And if you feel I am cheating, please, page on me, page on me early, page on me often. The more you page on me, the happier I'll be. If you page on me often enough, you might even earn some jail time out of it. I know I won't...

I'm guessing that with third party cheat detection active the GM's have something to work with now, and if they don't now, they will soon. I'll be more than happy to have them get annoyed with you when you page on me, and waste their time.

 

[Sergul'zan_SP]

The only conclusions are, either I am completely insane, I'm a complete idiot, I am trying hard to get permanently banned because I actually hate the game, or I'm not using any cheats. I guess which option you choose will depend on how much you personally dislike me, but putting personal feelings aside, I would think there is only one clear conclusion among those four...

You should combine the first three. You are a completely insane idiot with an uncanny desire to be permanently banned because you hate the game.

It's why you still argue on the boards, right? It makes complete sense to me that you have no passion for UO whatsoever, and you merely post on the boards because you're working on being able to cheat and work on something else with your other hand.

Cheating is the single biggest problem in the game...followed up by the gap between haves and have nots (this has been made smaller by imbuing, but now we have an economy completely dependent on imbuing rather than the just crafting skills).

The only people who would defend scripting programs and speed enhancers are the ones using them...and I wouldn't miss them if they were to be banned from the game permanently.

 

[Llewen]

The only people who would defend scripting programs and speed enhancers are the ones using them...and I wouldn't miss them if they were to be banned from the game permanently.

Was that entire post just a troll, or did you actually mean any of it? And if you did mean any of it, I suggest you get your medication adjusted, because it isn't working.

Where in everything I've posted anywhere on this forum did you get the idea that I am defending scripting programs and "speed enhancers"? All I've said about "speed hacks" is that I think there is a good chance they are a myth, and I clearly explained why.

Did you miss this part of the post that you quoted?

I have stated on more than one occasion that the cancellation of Punk Buster was the worst development decision made in the history of the game. I have been consistently in the front row of the cheering squad when positive announcements regarding the fight against cheating have been made, and even more so when third party app detection was announced - although I admit I was at first sceptical.

But I have consistently and actively campaigned against cheating, and the culture of cheating that exists in UO, and has throughout it's history. I have consistently and actively campaigned for the third party cheat detection that we are finally seeing. And as far as I know "speed hacks" rely on third party apps. Why, oh why, would I be campaigning so hard for their eradication if I was using them myself?

*shakes head*

Anyway, it's starting to look like this thread is going to turn into a troll feeding frenzy, so perhaps it should just be locked...