Trammel Bucs Den with fel ruleset ?

[Hell's Ironworks]

Seing its a Pirate town maybe even add a zone in the surrounding waters where ships could be freely attacked?

Pushing the idea even further, should we simply take fel out completely and instead, change some trammel citys and zones to fel ruleset?

I can think of a bunch of good stuff that could come out of this.

Some of you guys will most likely see some bad but im just thinking out loud here and opening a debate. Thoughts?

 

[old gypsy]

Seing its a Pirate town maybe even add a zone in the surrounding waters where ships could be freely attacked?

Pushing the idea even further, should we simply take fel out completely and instead, change some trammel citys and zones to fel ruleset?

I can think of a bunch of good stuff that could come out of this.

Some of you guys will most likely see some bad but im just thinking out loud here and opening a debate. Thoughts?

I'd rather not see that happen. It would adversely affect an unknown number of players who prefer living in Fel. For one thing, where would you put their houses? And I know some players who live in Fel but prefer playing under the Trammel ruleset.

 

[TheScoundrelRico]

There was a reason Trammel was created. By revising the ruleset in specific areas of Trammel kinda defeats it's whole purpose. If you want to kill someone, goto Felucca and have at it...la

 

[Mirt]

There was a reason Trammel was created. By revising the ruleset in specific areas of Trammel kinda defeats it's whole purpose. If you want to kill someone, goto Felucca and have at it...la

Pretty much this. It would also probably be an insane amount of coding. Not to mention how would players know this. If you like fel play in fel and if you like trammel play in trammel. The system as it is works pretty well and makes sense.

 

[Mervyn]

When Trammel was invented, it was a duplicate of fel but under trammel ruleset and there was nothing in trammel you could get that you couldn't get in fel.

Now however, it's ridiculous that
1) you can get artifacts in trammel

2)there are actually things you can get in trammel that you cannot get at all in fel.

RIDICULOUS

 

[pgib]

I'm totally up for a full copy of all items you can get under trammel rules to felucca rules and vice versa.

 

[R Traveler]

Not possible. Tram/fel ruleset is a property of subserver. Changing serverlines and such madness... no way.

 

[hen]

Bucs Den should have been Haven on Trammel, not Ocllo.

 

[Woodsman]

Seing its a Pirate town maybe even add a zone in the surrounding waters where ships could be freely attacked?

Pushing the idea even further, should we simply take fel out completely and instead, change some trammel citys and zones to fel ruleset?

Putting aside the fact that Trammel was created for a reason, if you start screwing with players homes and/or playstyles, they'll walk away from the game.

There is a reason why only a small handful of games have non-consensual PvP at their core and why almost every major MMO that came after UO made sure that non-PvPers were taken care of.

 

[Hell's Ironworks]

Ok so what about arenas? Guild wars and intra guild pvp? Those all happen in tram.

Zones could be recognizable with the same fel dead trees, Fel ruleset towns would have warnings before entering or at moongates. Might even have them show up on map.

open up some new land to build houses on in tram. Build a magincia like city with fel ruleset on fire island for example. And give ¨fellers¨ (lol) priority on the land grab.

Anyway im no coder and maybe its not feasible. But i still think idt be freakin cool. Would love some UO staff insight on this just to satisfy my curiosity.

 

[Irulia Darkaith]

I'm totally up for a full copy of all items you can get under trammel rules to felucca rules and vice versa.

I second this idea!

They started making some things Fel only because they knew it was the only way to force people to go there and thus give purpose for it's existence (beyond housing). And yes, I was around way before Trammel and I have a house in Fel.

 

[Hell's Ironworks]

Putting aside the fact that Trammel was created for a reason, if you start screwing with players homes and/or playstyles, they'll walk away from the game.

There is a reason why only a small handful of games have non-consensual PvP at their core and why almost every major MMO that came after UO made sure that non-PvPers were taken care of.

I dont see how this would affect non pvpers in their playstyle. If you dont want to pvp, just keep clear of the bad neighbourhoods. If i dont want to get jumped by monsters, i do my mining out of the dungeons...

 

[Irulia Darkaith]

If i dont want to get jumped by monsters, i do my mining out of the dungeons...

Except there are only some things you can get by mining and fishing in dungeons, just like there are only some things you can get in Felucca. The idea that non-consensual PvPers should be restricted in content cause they don't like getting jumped is unfair.

Just cause I'm not into PvP anymore, doesn't mean I don't need power scrolls for my characters for PvE or consensual PvP.

 

[Kylie Kinslayer]

I'm totally up for a full copy of all items you can get under trammel rules to felucca rules and vice versa.

Like the majority of the Fel Folk would put up with that? lol Yeah right. These boards would be blowing slap UP if they even considered putting power/stat scrolls in Tram.

While it is true Guilds allow for folks to be attacked in Tram, Fel is Fel, and Tram is Tram. Both should stick to what ruleset they are supposed to be imo. Unless of course you would like to have Champ Spawn areas taken to Tram rules, I for one would be willing to swap that luxury for Buc's Den . If ya want attackable areas in Buc's Tram just start a guild there and anyone that wants the ability to attack they can join the guild and have at it. Other than that I say get back to land of no leaves if ya want it that way.

 

[CovenantX]

When Trammel was invented, it was a duplicate of fel but under trammel ruleset and there was nothing in trammel you could get that you couldn't get in fel.

Now however, it's ridiculous that
1) you can get artifacts in trammel

2)there are actually things you can get in trammel that you cannot get at all in fel.

RIDICULOUS

Agreed, although I do believe you should get artifacts in trammel, the drop rate should be at about 1-5% per champ w/e, in fel it should be about 40-60% and temporary curses on the item, that makes the item not insurable and removes your ability to travel via rune (recall,gate,sacred journey Exactly like Faction Sigils) untill the duration on the item runs out or maybe have some NPC that could remove the curse (curse would be for artifacts from champs Only, not shame type loot)

Bring back some risk vs reward, Power Scrolls are probably the last "bit-o-love" Fel has gotten. aside from replica's and only two of them are useful (LT Sash, Glad Collar) since you can no longer imbue artifacts/replicas.

Something like that would be nice Imo...

Or they could just have a different artifact loot table between fel/tram giving each uniqueness in their drops (preferably fel would have the higher end drops) Anything to get fel some much needed attention would be great.

 

[CovenantX]

I'm totally up for a full copy of all items you can get under trammel rules to felucca rules and vice versa.

This is probably not a Full List of items only from tram vs fel, but its the main thing people look at between the two.

Tram Only.
Any Artifact drops from: Medusa, Slasher, Stygian Dragon, Navrey, Dreadhorn, Travesty, Meraktus, Grizzle + Swoop spawn & Pestilence Spawns. DOOM Arties.

Most imbuing ingredients (Seems to be changing with the dungeon revamps a bit) but currently Abyss is near the only place you can get all of it.

Fel Only
Powerscrolls, Stat Scrolls, And Champion Skulls (which are needed to get stat scrolls...) and higher point value from SoTs?
and lets not forget... double resources from (Most Gathering Skills) Excluding fishing. whoopie doo...

The thing about these items only from fel (Power Scrolls) is that once you use them... you no longer need them. (no continual demand)

The things you get in tram (Artifacts... not just artifacts.. but the best items in the game) if you lose them, replacements do not involve going to fel at all...

I would mention faction artifacts. but these items are of a whole different thing, and there are Penalties & Requirements to use such items. (Stat loss & faction points to equip).

 

[Hell's Ironworks]

Like the majority of the Fel Folk would put up with that? lol Yeah right. These boards would be blowing slap UP if they even considered putting power/stat scrolls in Tram.

While it is true Guilds allow for folks to be attacked in Tram, Fel is Fel, and Tram is Tram. Both should stick to what ruleset they are supposed to be imo. Unless of course you would like to have Champ Spawn areas taken to Tram rules, I for one would be willing to swap that luxury for Buc's Den . If ya want attackable areas in Buc's Tram just start a guild there and anyone that wants the ability to attack they can join the guild and have at it. Other than that I say get back to land of no leaves if ya want it that way.

I havent pvped in fel since 2000. And to be honest when i want to pvp, i have another game i play that is skill and not item based.

That being said i think some are missing the point. i couldnt care less if some items are only obtainable under fel ruleset. I think its only fair actually.

I just think that instead of having a black and a white facet, we could have a grey one that has something for everyone.

 

[Mirt]

I havent pvped in fel since 2000. And to be honest when i want to pvp, i have another game i play that is skill and not item based.

That being said i think some are missing the point. i couldnt care less if some items are only obtainable under fel ruleset. I think its only fair actually.

I just think that instead of having a black and a white facet, we could have a grey one that has something for everyone.

It would require a complete rewrite of the code. It really would not be a feasible thing to do because of that. Also the grey facet really is fel its not like your always being attacked just that you can.

 

[pgib]

This is probably not a Full List of items only from tram vs fel, but its the main thing people look at between the two.

Tram Only.
Any Artifact drops from: Medusa, Slasher, Stygian Dragon, Navrey, Dreadhorn, Travesty, Meraktus, Grizzle + Swoop spawn & Pestilence Spawns. DOOM Arties.

Most imbuing ingredients (Seems to be changing with the dungeon revamps a bit) but currently Abyss is near the only place you can get all of it.

Fel Only
Powerscrolls, Stat Scrolls, And Champion Skulls (which are needed to get stat scrolls...) and higher point value from SoTs?
and lets not forget... double resources from (Most Gathering Skills) Excluding fishing. whoopie doo...

The thing about these items only from fel (Power Scrolls) is that once you use them... you no longer need them. (no continual demand)

The things you get in tram (Artifacts... not just artifacts.. but the best items in the game) if you lose them, replacements do not involve going to fel at all...

I would mention faction artifacts. but these items are of a whole different thing, and there are Penalties & Requirements to use such items. (Stat loss & faction points to equip).

It's good for me. I think they can't really add more facets to recreate the dungeons and such but they can alter the loot tables of existings monsters and set up a couple of spawn locations for bosses in felucca. They should do it right now, i'd be more than happy.

 

[MalagAste]

There was a reason Trammel was created. By revising the ruleset in specific areas of Trammel kinda defeats it's whole purpose. If you want to kill someone, goto Felucca and have at it...la

Pretty much this. It would also probably be an insane amount of coding. Not to mention how would players know this. If you like fel play in fel and if you like trammel play in trammel. The system as it is works pretty well and makes sense.

This ^^^ Leave all that Fel BS in Fel.

If I want that I'll go to Fel.

 

[Percivalgoh]

Let's change some Fel towns and make them Trammel ruleset.

 

[Mervyn]

to be honest, making tram bucs den a fel zone will actually make no difference to anyone. Decreasing the trammel zone will merely concentrate trammel players into a smaller area.

Although I do think that abyss dungeon and ilshenar should be fel rule set.

 

[old gypsy]

Although I do think that abyss dungeon and ilshenar should be fel rule set.

No.

 

[MalagAste]

to be honest, making tram bucs den a fel zone will actually make no difference to anyone. Decreasing the trammel zone will merely concentrate trammel players into a smaller area.

Although I do think that abyss dungeon and ilshenar should be fel rule set.

That's BS I go there all the time and do T-Maps as well as Fish off the Docs.

It would effect me plenty.

If I wanted to do that in Fel I'd go to Fel and do it.

 

[Orgional Farimir]

lets just make it so reds can go to tram, but not attack anyone.

 

[old gypsy]

lets just make it so reds can go to tram, but not attack anyone.

That wouldn't bother me in the least.

 

[Nylan]

Fel already has a whole land mass to their selves, why do you want more?

 

[Orgional Farimir]

Fel already has a whole land mass to their selves, why do you want more?

And Tram already has Tram, Malas, Ilsh, the garg city area thing, and Tokono. Why can't you "share".

I really don't think that UO has such a high population that allowing more people in different area's is a bad thing.

Main reason I want it is so I don't have to have 2 mystic mages (one blue and one red). Even with 7 character slots there are so many template options it sucks having to use 2 slots for 1 template.

Infact I don't see how allowing reds into tram will affect the tram population at all. Except for having more people to interact with. But then again a lot of people tend to forget what the first "M" stands for in MMOPG.

 

[Smiley Gladhands]

Seing its a Pirate town maybe even add a zone in the surrounding waters where ships could be freely attacked?

Pushing the idea even further, should we simply take fel out completely and instead, change some trammel citys and zones to fel ruleset?

I can think of a bunch of good stuff that could come out of this.

Some of you guys will most likely see some bad but im just thinking out loud here and opening a debate. Thoughts?

I'm hoping this post is a joke......

Go to fel....make an attempt to pvp. Your post seems like your just wanting to get lucky with killing a few trammies that don't know any better and stumble into the area.

If anything:
-Remove guardzones from felucca.
-Next expansion another fel facet.
-And most importantly.....allow red guildmates to heal each other in guardzone if its not removed.

 

[Cirno]

The idea of "PvP Lakes" is a good one, if the aim is to make PvP something that doesn't exist on the fringes of the game.
That's what it is now, a niche, which most people won't even consider trying because marginalised to a single stigmatised facet, and with the exception of powerscrolls and open PvP, most of what it has to offer is hand-me-down content which is available elsewhere. Which means the only people who are going to do it are those who really want to PvP, and while far from being a number that's going to die out, it's not going to be a number that drives developer attention either.

If PvP were given some unique content, and implemented in such a way that it was more a part of the game than the facet equivalent of Ravenholm ("we don't go there any more"), then it could be big again.
It's too late in the day to just turn an existing patch of land into such a "lake" though. As Malag'aste's comment suggests, wherever you try to put it, there's going to be people who preferred it PvP-free.

 

[RaDian FlGith]

There's enough Felucca in Felucca. There doesn't need to be Felucca in Trammel.

And depending on shard, there's clearly a lack of players interested in the amount of Felucca there is. Expanding it would only aid those lingering few who want to freely attack players to, you know, freely attack players who don't want to be attacked in the first place. The logical response to this will be, "Well, no one would have to go to Buc's Den, it's not being forced on them." My counter-response will be, "No one has to go to Felucca either. And based on the minority voice wishing for Felucca to be expanded, clearly no one's going there now."

 

[RaDian FlGith]

lets just make it so reds can go to tram, but not attack anyone.

I've always been in favor of this, but the old, old, old, old mindset is that if you "murdered," your paying the price for your actions.

*shrugs*

Title them folks "The Murderer," make it so they're attacked by guards in guard zones except for a neutral (or evil) city or two, and then let them roam the facets freely. Trade off for crimes is an inability to bank outside of Felucca.

But, I don't see it ever happening. Here's hoping, but not holding one's breath.

 

[Hell's Ironworks]

I'm hoping this post is a joke......

Go to fel....make an attempt to pvp. Your post seems like your just wanting to get lucky with killing a few trammies that don't know any better and stumble into the area.

If anything:
-Remove guardzones from felucca.
-Next expansion another fel facet.
-And most importantly.....allow red guildmates to heal each other in guardzone if its not removed.

If you read all the posts you 'll see that i havent been into pvping since 2000 and have no desire to go back at it in this game. Unless i can find enough peeps to do some naval warfare. Just suggesting that instead of having 2 empty facets we could have one half empty, and much more interesting. for get about tram and fel there would be just 1 facet called...Britannia?

So im not talking about expanding fel, im talking about merging the facets.

Funny how Uo has to be black or white .

 

[GreywolfUK]

I think this could work, BUT, if reds come to Tram, they must abide by ALL of the tram rule-set, just as we from tram have to abide and accept the fel rule-set when we step into the bad-lands.

Who knows might even bring some peace between the facets, and people from tram might even try fel and pvp etc. but then again pigs can fly.

Either that or bring back Order/Chaos wars

 

[old gypsy]

So im not talking about expanding fel, im talking about merging the facets.

Funny how Uo has to be black or white .

I understand the sentiment, and in my most nostalgic moments I've often wished there was one land again (with a way to avoid the rampant PKing that resulted in the creation of Trammel in the first place). However, I don't believe it is a realistic wish, and it's far too late in the game to even consider it.

Something that must be considered is that there are still players loyal to Fel. They have homes there - even castles - that could not be easily relocated, and they prefer to play there. In addition, there are still long-established player communities in Fel - Paxlair for one, and, of course, the resurrected community of Aryslan, both of which have a very long and rich history in UO. Those are just two examples on my shard.

Such a merger, should it ever come about, would undoubtedly drive more people from the game. None of us want that to happen.

 

[GalenKnighthawke]

Many of the reasons why this should not be have already been explained adequately by others. Going over the other reasons is pointless, as I have sadly discovered.

I would hesitate, though, to say that this will never be simply because it should not be.

-Galen's player

 

[Surgeries]

to be honest, making tram bucs den a fel zone will actually make no difference to anyone. Decreasing the trammel zone will merely concentrate trammel players into a smaller area.

Although I do think that abyss dungeon and ilshenar should be fel rule set.

Wait a second...it seems to me that it is Fel that might require consolidation...what with the ghostiness of it all, and the challenge that I see posted frequently about people finding other people to fight...

Maybe we could just put the Trammel ruleset in ALL of Fel, EXCEPT Bucs Den, and then they could put a Champ in Bucs Den that all of the PvPers could then fight over, and they wouldn't have to run all over the place to find a fight!!

[/Sarcasm]

 

[Melchior1]

Seing its a Pirate town maybe even add a zone in the surrounding waters where ships could be freely attacked?

Pushing the idea even further, should we simply take fel out completely and instead, change some trammel citys and zones to fel ruleset?

I can think of a bunch of good stuff that could come out of this.

Some of you guys will most likely see some bad but im just thinking out loud here and opening a debate. Thoughts?

I think we need to do away with the fel loot system as in spawning and spawn drops. I think anyone should be able to do a harrower or farm scrolls without being killed by other players. I think fel should be left for just pvp and that's it. I live in fel but i believe that it's only fair to everyone. Why should someone who never sets foot in Fel have to pay 5 mil for a stat scroll, when they could get with a few friends and do it them selves? This would eliminate zerging, trash talking across gen chat about there's a harrower up every 5 seconds, Factions most likely would go back to normal for what they were intended for and that was not for leet pvp gear and items( which ruined pvp for ages to come, imho), but bottom-line to give guilds and other ppl an opportunity to experience something they were afraid to do or would never do. Let's be realistic, tram spawns are a joke. I have pvp'd for yrs, done harrys, spawns, factions. I'm retired from all that and I think it's time for change and to give others an opportunity.

 

[Kylie Kinslayer]

I think we need to do away with the fel loot system as in spawning and spawn drops. I think anyone should be able to do a harrower or farm scrolls without being killed by other players.

Kind of a dedicated Trammie here, about the only time you see me in Fel is if I am trying to sneak off a spawn or running low end spawn for pinks. I don't think they should go anywhere near that far. Yeah, it would be nice to be able to pop a Harrower in Tram WITHOUT the stat scroll drops and replicas. Toss some sot's on it or something to shut up the folks who only do things for the drops. They can even carry it so far as Tram also needing the skulls that you can ONLY obtain in Fel to pop him too.

One thing I think we don't need them to start messing with is ruleset changes in small areas where there is already a ruleset. It seems hard enough to code stuff without stuff going wrong. While they think they have coded Buc's Den only to be Fel, it rolls out, and lo and behold Luna is Fel ruleset by accident.

 

[Mervyn]

Wait a second...it seems to me that it is Fel that might require consolidation...what with the ghostiness of it all, and the challenge that I see posted frequently about people finding other people to fight...

Maybe we could just put the Trammel ruleset in ALL of Fel, EXCEPT Bucs Den, and then they could put a Champ in Bucs Den that all of the PvPers could then fight over, and they wouldn't have to run all over the place to find a fight!!

[/Sarcasm]

Sounds good to me

 

[Mervyn]

to be honest, making tram bucs den a fel zone will actually make no difference to anyone. Decreasing the trammel zone will merely concentrate trammel players into a smaller area.

Although I do think that abyss dungeon and ilshenar should be fel rule set.

That's BS I go there all the time and do T-Maps as well as Fish off the Docs.

It would effect me plenty.

If I wanted to do that in Fel I'd go to Fel and do it.

Sorry what i meant was, i don't want bucs den tram to turn to fel ruleset, you can keep it. I'd rather have doom, abyss and ilshenar. Apart from anything else, there's a massive gay server line in the middle of bucs den.

 

[Woodsman]

I dont see how this would affect non pvpers in their playstyle. If you dont want to pvp, just keep clear of the bad neighbourhoods. If i dont want to get jumped by monsters, i do my mining out of the dungeons...

Tram was created so that there weren't bad neighborhoods, or rather the bad neighborhoods were confined to Fel.

I'm not saying I completely disagree with you - there is very little risk in UO these days, what with insurance and blessed items.

 

[Melchior1]

One thing I think we don't need them to start messing with is ruleset changes in small areas where there is already a ruleset.

Well the rule-set wouldn't change in fel. you can still die. You can still spawn. But what we have in UO is an enormously huge problem. The Zerg! I remember a time when blues would go all over fel and fearlessly kill and fight reds. This happened even when trammel started. Let's face it, Zergs that play around in fel usually carry a bad rap and they mostly attract bad people. Who do you know in tram that would love to roll with someone who cheats or drops the F bomb evertime they die? Or better yet, ruin EM events with pvp and everything. These are the types that bring fel a seriously bad name. Fel was never intended for "the evil empire" to only live there. But now look at it. It is freaking spiraling out of control. We wont get into the buttload of scripts these guilds run to "enhance" their goals and mission to conquer and profit. IT JUST AINT FAIR! So, I know Mythic is more than aware of this huge problem. I do believe that solutions are on the table and will be on there way within the next year. Look at it this way, the mafia ran supreme in the 70's and 80s until someone said enough! Down went Gotti and others followed. Have some faith. Evil never last forever. =)