Training Gains

[Pawain]

@Donavon made me do testing in return for colored lessers.

You may have heard that I hate skilling so I train things as they are.

I took out two 2 slot fresh pets. Ram and Kirin Kirin has 76 wrestling ram has 43 wrestling.

I took them to the same place and trained them from 0 to 100%

The average gain for a 2 slot pet is .7% per gain. It is sometimes more sometimes less.

The ram took 1 hour 40 minutes. I use Empowerment sometimes when I can. But I was mostly healing the weak beast. Also used whispering. I cant tell if whispering or power hour do anything when training on mobs out of your pets wrestling range.

The Kirin was much better. Took only about 50 minutes.

I was able to gain the 100% on the same crazy mage and was alone the whole time. Only trained one pet at a time.

Results:

2 slot pets get greatly gains of .7 on average. I noticed some same % points. I only wrote down one. Both pets happened to be at 87.5% at some point. That is 125 gains at .7%.

Train 1 pet at a time. Heal the dang thing you don't need a tank unless you want fewer gains.

Today I took the 2 pets out and used on same mob. But new name. They are both at 3 slots now and have same wrestling as yesterday.

The ram was first. Took 15 minutes to get to 52.24% Then it stopped. The average near 2.5% per gain.

The kirin was next. It took 4 minutes to get to 52.24% and it stopped also. I only used whispering on the ram. the time limit hadn't reset for the Kirin.

52.24 is 21 gains at 2.48%

Results:

3 slot pets get greatly gains of 2.5% on average.

Higher wrestling gets more gains/time.

I also have noticed higher slot pets tend to stop gaining faster on mobs vs lower slot pets. Some mobs are 1 pet gainers. Crazy mage is one of them. Don't bring a tank to the crazy mage.

~~taking donations of trainable colored pets on LS~~

 

[G.v.P]

Are gains based on skill threshold and fame of monster you are fighting? I wonder if the message you get for failing to gain is related to a skill you cannot increase based on what you are fighting, like trying to train 20 wrestling against 120 wrestling.

 

[MalagAste]

When I do the Mage I bring both Tamer and Archer... Tamer puts pet on Archer slowly whittles the Crazy down to dead... Rinse and Repeat x3 or 4... and at 100% in about 45 to 55 min...

 

[Pawain]

Are gains based on skill threshold and fame of monster you are fighting? I wonder if the message you get for failing to gain is related to a skill you cannot increase based on what you are fighting, like trying to train 20 wrestling against 120 wrestling.

Gaining skills and training gains are not related. Your pet does not have to have skills that match your victim to gain training they just have to do some damage or in some cases, take damage. I always wait for 3 red cant gain messages. Or at 25% on some things is the max.

 

[Slayvite]

At the moment a take any fresh tame I have and go sit in Naveries hole and train slots to 5 before I start to even attempt to train skills.
They have acknowledged that there is a bug that will make your pet skip a slot if your skills are high when it does its calculations.
I seriously doubt they will be giving slots back to pets after they hit 5, so basically that pet will always be useless..........just like the "fake" Phoenix.

 

[Turbo]

Wrestling skill is very important when training a pet. It needs to be high enough to be able to hit the target regularly or its gains will happen less often. It seems from your comparison the pet with the lowest wrestle took the longest because of this.

So maxing skills first is not necessary as long as you have about the same or a bit higher wrestling as the target you will train on if you want optimal gains.

 

[Tyrath]

43 minutes for all four bulls to hit 100% with the hiryu tanking and just standing there gaining parry. Their wrestling were all within 1.5 points of each other. The two that gained the fastest had the highest dex/stamina the two that gained the slowest had the lowest dex/stamina. How often the critter swings weighs much more than its wrestling skill. The tanking pet getting more gains is partially a myth, when a pet gets hit it has what looks to be about 5%-7% chance of getting a gain. You can test this by having a pet just stand there not attacking and it will occasionally get a gain. Just count the number of times the thing beating on it swings VS the gains. 1-2 slot fairly fast 2-3 slot slow, 3-4 slot very fast 4-5 slot fairly fast. I won't waste time on crazy mages or anything else. I have hit everything in game for gain and nothing can get 30-35 pets 150% from 1-2 than a dread pirate and in fel you can keep the DP fully healed and the pets cycling in and out beating on him. I have had up to 7 other people on my boat cycling their pets on the DPs and spamming greater heal on the DP (In Fel) 2-3 slot a DP gives 100% or 75% depending on if you pulled your pet at 100% from the first DP leveld it and put it back on the 1st DP for another 50%. If you did you get 25% toward 3-4 slot and that is 2.5 per gain 3-4 with 50% per pirate so on the 3rd DP you are at 75% of 3-4 slot. THe next DP you hit 100% and pull the pet train and put it back on for 25% at 1.25 per gain and now it only takes 3 DPs at 25% to finish training. Now this might sound slow but you can literally train 6-7 stables full of pets from 1-2 and 2-3 on Two dread pirates I believe the most myself and friends have trained up from 1-3 was 118 pets over the course of a day. With two boats in the water and gating pets that hit their 150% on one to the next boat to get to 3 slot and 25% toward 4 slot. Then the next day took them all to 5 slot with 4 boats in the water gating pets from boat to boat as they finished their max gains on one pirate. Only thing you gotta watch is that the DPs bow durabilty does not get low and the bow breaks, we kill the DP at 3% durabilty on the bows just to be safe. I am well over 800 pets trained up to 5 slot now ( have trained several hundred for other people) and sold a few hundred. So I have a bit of experience and knowledge of what I speak. If the Shame is your thing more power but it just is not the most efficient way to train a lot of pets fast. And the added 5%-7% in gains by not using a tanking pet in my mind is insignificant when mass training since the tanking Hiryu in my case achieves 120 parry while tanking for all the other pets.

Just using the bulls because the screenies were easy to find, beetles are the same result except they all hit 100% at the same time because they are identical in stam.

 

[jhmills1981]

Pirates are amazing. Just practice firing two cannons at once (it's quite east). You have to scuttle their ship first by firing cannonballs at it (I prefer heavy cannons), before you can board their vessel. While firing away, a lot of orc mages may start bombarding you with spells. It helps to take a tank pet. My favorite is a dimetrosaur. They will never die and they cast AOE poison over the whole pirate ship, which drags their attention off of you if you invis.

One word of advice though if you plan on taking ships out, you will get scuttled some time, so bring lots of cloth and boards. You will need cloth and boards to perform emergency repairs your ship to get it to land so that you can work on permanent repairs. The cargo hold of the ship acts as a commodity deed box so bring lots of cloth, boards, and extra commodity deeds.

P.S. The only problem with pirates is east of Jhelom in Trammel. Terrible gains, don't go there.

....but if you do go east of Jhelom in Trammel, wave to me

 

[Pawain]

43 minutes for all four bulls to hit 100% with the hiryu tanking and just standing there gaining parry. Their wrestling were all within 1.5 points of each other. The two that gained the fastest had the highest dex/stamina the two that gained the slowest had the lowest dex/stamina. How often the critter swings weighs much more than its wrestling skill. The tanking pet getting more gains is partially a myth, when a pet gets hit it has what looks to be about 5%-7% chance of getting a gain. You can test this by having a pet just stand there not attacking and it will occasionally get a gain. Just count the number of times the thing beating on it swings VS the gains. 1-2 slot fairly fast 2-3 slot slow, 3-4 slot very fast 4-5 slot fairly fast. I won't waste time on crazy mages or anything else. I have hit everything in game for gain and nothing can get 30-35 pets 150% from 1-2 than a dread pirate and in fel you can keep the DP fully healed and the pets cycling in and out beating on him. I have had up to 7 other people on my boat cycling their pets on the DPs and spamming greater heal on the DP (In Fel) 2-3 slot a DP gives 100% or 75% depending on if you pulled your pet at 100% from the first DP leveld it and put it back on the 1st DP for another 50%. If you did you get 25% toward 3-4 slot and that is 2.5 per gain 3-4 with 50% per pirate so on the 3rd DP you are at 75% of 3-4 slot. THe next DP you hit 100% and pull the pet train and put it back on for 25% at 1.25 per gain and now it only takes 3 DPs at 25% to finish training. Now this might sound slow but you can literally train 6-7 stables full of pets from 1-2 and 2-3 on Two dread pirates I believe the most myself and friends have trained up from 1-3 was 118 pets over the course of a day. With two boats in the water and gating pets that hit their 150% on one to the next boat to get to 3 slot and 25% toward 4 slot. Then the next day took them all to 5 slot with 4 boats in the water gating pets from boat to boat as they finished their max gains on one pirate. Only thing you gotta watch is that the DPs bow durabilty does not get low and the bow breaks, we kill the DP at 3% durabilty on the bows just to be safe. I am well over 800 pets trained up to 5 slot now ( have trained several hundred for other people) and sold a few hundred. So I have a bit of experience and knowledge of what I speak. If the Shame is your thing more power but it just is not the most efficient way to train a lot of pets fast. And the added 5%-7% in gains by not using a tanking pet in my mind is insignificant when mass training since the tanking Hiryu in my case achieves 120 parry while tanking for all the other pets.

Just using the bulls because the screenies were easy to find, beetles are the same result except they all hit 100% at the same time because they are identical in stam.

View attachment 67862 View attachment 67863 View attachment 67864 View attachment 67865 View attachment 67866

Ive still never seen a dread pirate. And All my pets are 5 slots unless its a new bond, so Ive never used a tank. But that's cool to train 4 things at once. I have no stable space and only have 2 pets waiting to bond. My training days may be over soon.

Also only have one tamer. Theres more than 5 slots in your pics.

 

[The Doctor]

I take my 5 slot mystic cu with me while scuttling the ship with cannons. By the time I can board the orcs are all dead except for the Dread Pirate.

 

[jhmills1981]

I take my 5 slot mystic cu with me while scuttling the ship with cannons. By the time I can board the orcs are all dead except for the Dread Pirate.

I just got my Mystic Cu and am loving it. I've been a bit late to the taming party (mostly due to not having enough gold for scrolling the pets I want), but yeah, mystic Cu works great. I'm just so used to using my non-scrolled super cheap dimetrosaur and casting spells from my boat.

 

[The Doctor]

Well I have started to prefer my mystic cu to chiv cu because it can cast at range. It's nice when things die that you can't reach when spawning. With pirates it's a quick recall then stable and get pets to train.

 

[G.v.P]

Gaining skills and training gains are not related. Your pet does not have to have skills that match your victim to gain training they just have to do some damage or in some cases, take damage. I always wait for 3 red cant gain messages. Or at 25% on some things is the max.

Wrestling skill is very important when training a pet. It needs to be high enough to be able to hit the target regularly or its gains will happen less often. It seems from your comparison the pet with the lowest wrestle took the longest because of this.

So maxing skills first is not necessary as long as you have about the same or a bit higher wrestling as the target you will train on if you want optimal gains.

Hmm...so wrestling should be +/- 20 but nothing else matters? Hm.

 

[Pawain]

This thing is 5 slot now. He only gained in anatomy and resist spells.



You don't need to gain skills to train pets. You don't have to match skills to get training gains. The gains will go faster if wrestling is higher.

Now I would have to find something to increase his wrestling. But, I hate skilling. So ill put him in the back of the stable.

 

[Tyrath]

Pirates are amazing. Just practice firing two cannons at once (it's quite east). You have to scuttle their ship first by firing cannonballs at it (I prefer heavy cannons), before you can board their vessel. While firing away, a lot of orc mages may start bombarding you with spells. It helps to take a tank pet. My favorite is a dimetrosaur. They will never die and they cast AOE poison over the whole pirate ship, which drags their attention off of you if you invis.

One word of advice though if you plan on taking ships out, you will get scuttled some time, so bring lots of cloth and boards. You will need cloth and boards to perform emergency repairs your ship to get it to land so that you can work on permanent repairs. The cargo hold of the ship acts as a commodity deed box so bring lots of cloth, boards, and extra commodity deeds.

P.S. The only problem with pirates is east of Jhelom in Trammel. Terrible gains, don't go there.

....but if you do go east of Jhelom in Trammel, wave to me

Try fel side a big difference and you will rarely if ever see a PK on most shards. Plus at the cost of going grey and being a criminal for a while you can heal the pirate back to full health, which helps when the pets are getting stronger and killing the pirate too fast.

 

[celticus]

Where are the crazy mages in Shame? Is this the real monster name? What level pet to train there? Thanks

 

[Pawain]

Where are the crazy mages in Shame? Is this the real monster name? What level pet to train there? Thanks

Level 5 crazed mage. For all levels. EVs for 3 and above,