Town Banners. (Small change needed)

[Frarc]

First of all i like the new banners. ​

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But i'm collecting multiple banners with different characters on different accounts.​

But my problem is i would like to have the banners all in the same house.​

But the requirement for town loyalty to place a banner is preventing me from doing that.​

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I can not be loyal to all towns with same character and all my characters can not place there own banner at the same house.​

I can understand the requirement of loyalty to buy a banner but not to place it after all the work we did.​

Even maintaining town loyalty to all these town for just house decorating in the future would be hard.​

So can town loyalty be removed for placing the banners please? ​

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[Mandrake of DF]

Agreed! I see a huge problem if the loyalty decay and you want to redeco the house, or after the event is over....

 

[Hunters' Moon]

Couldn't the natural decay of loyalty to any town pose a problem after the event is over? Or will the loyalty be locked after the rioters and raiders are turned off?

 

[Mapper]

I hope co-owners can place banners then, Or my plan to collect them all just went out the window..

 

[Martyna Zmuir]

Wow.. Sorry, but this is hilariously bad event design.

 

[Pinco]

Wow.. Sorry, but this is hilariously bad event design.

I have to agree...
I mean we have to work half day to get enough loyalty to buy a banner for 250k and then I can't even place it whith the character I want because it must have the loyalty?
If I have to keep the loyalty everyday for the rest of my life in order to be able to use those DECO ITEMS, this became a real job and I want a monthly pay for that

 

[Kojak]

are the banners redeedable?

(and btw, pinco, i'm sure once they're placed, you don't have to maintain your town loyalty - it's not like they're going to pop off the wall or something - lol)

 

[Shakkara]

I have to agree...
I mean we have to work half day to get enough loyalty to buy a banner for 250k and then I can't even place it whith the character I want because it must have the loyalty?
If I have to keep the loyalty everyday for the rest of my life in order to be able to use those DECO ITEMS, this became a real job and I want a monthly pay for that

This. If previously-unlocked tiers would count towards banner placement, then it might work. But having to constantly maintain loyalty in order to move a furniture item is total stupidity.

 

[Frarc]

are the banners redeedable?

(and btw, pinco, i'm sure once they're placed, you don't have to maintain your town loyalty - it's not like they're going to pop off the wall or something - lol)

Yes, you can redeed them.

You don't need to keep loyalty when they hang o nthe wall but if you want to redecorate our houses (And some do that often) You need to maintain loya

 

[Frarc]

are the banners redeedable?

(and btw, pinco, i'm sure once they're placed, you don't have to maintain your town loyalty - it's not like they're going to pop off the wall or something - lol)

Yes, you can redeed them.

You don't need to keep loyalty when they hang on the wall but if you want to redecorate our houses (And some do that often) You need to maintain loyalty to place them again.

 

[Pinco]

This. If previously-unlocked tiers would count towards banner placement, then it might work. But having to constantly maintain loyalty in order to move a furniture item is total stupidity.

no, neither if you have to unlock the tiers would be good... the time pass, the event won't last forever and if you delete your character you should be always able to move a piece of deco.
If the banner have some superpower it could be acceptable if you can't use that power without loyalty, but that's it...

 

[popps]

Well, if Town Loyalty needs to be meaningfull, and not just a way to have another decorative item, then I suppose that only one banner could be displayed at a House, not a variety of them.....

That's at least as I see it.

 

[Umfufu]

Well ...

(and btw, pinco, i'm sure once they're placed, you don't have to maintain your town loyalty - it's not like they're going to pop off the wall or something - lol)

Many Decco and Re-decco there house(s) more then once, I mean next event maybe bring some new goodie you wish to place and have to move stuff to make it possible or to let it shine , also people move sometimes.

So at is this would mean:
You have to maintain/upkeep the Loyalty on every single character that got a banner, making the character basicly stuck with this town
You have to think twice on who gets what when have multiple accounts/houses
You have to remember till end of time which character got what
Makes deletion or shard transfer of such character a huge loss

Also this means, you cannot gift a banner to a friend.
Lazy Collectors cannot buy and use the Banners aswell.

For those who actually took the effort to collect all 9 Banners, am not sure how they like the idea to upkeep this loyalty on 9 chars forever, if that even is possible, as we speak of an event here, what will happen when the event ends and the loyalty is decayed ?

 

[Aurelius]

So we have a complete travesty of the idea of loyalty - be loyal long enough to hang up the banner, and scrap your loyalties right away to go get the next one.... but be aware if you ever redecorate your home you will need to rebuild all those fake loyalties again... for a 'storyline mechanic' that is all about fracturing the overall society of Britannia.

Who, exactly, is the genius behind this design - do they grasp at all what the philosophies behind the Ultima world, and the actual meaning of the word 'loyalty', are? And do they have the faintest clue how frustrating the players find endlessly tedious 'quests?

 

[Meatbread]

I'd pay real money to see the guy who designed this come here and try to defend it.

 

[Aurelius]

Well, if Town Loyalty needs to be meaningfull, and not just a way to have another decorative item, then I suppose that only one banner could be displayed at a House, not a variety of them.....

That's at least as I see it.

So it is 'meaningful' for every character to have their own loyalties, but only one of them - in a house shared by them all - can put their banner on display? That 'reasoning' of yours only makes sense when each character - not player - has one home that is theirs alone. Following the logic of your 'you can only display what is 'your character's loyalty', either we should have one character per account, or one house per character, or town loyalty is applied equally to all of your characters on an account - regardless of RP or personal character history. Anything else fails to fit your logic.....

 

[Aurelius]

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But i'm collecting multiple banners with different characters on different accounts.​

But my problem is i would like to have the banners all in the same house.​

But the requirement for town loyalty to place a banner is preventing me from doing that.​

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As ever with UO, there is a bizarre 'workround' we can resort to, to get around stupid design - it's not fast, but the solution might be to trade the houses between the accounts, so you place a banner, trade to a different loyalty character on the second account, and go through placing all the banners.

Stupid to land players with that, since it would take months, and is a painful way to get something to work - but given the inability of the designers to actually think through what they are doing, it's not impossible we'll be stuck with a system like that for quite a while...

 

[Pinco]

So we have a complete travesty of the idea of loyalty - be loyal long enough to hang up the banner, and scrap your loyalties right away to go get the next one.... but be aware if you ever redecorate your home you will need to rebuild all those fake loyalties again... for a 'storyline mechanic' that is all about fracturing the overall society of Britannia.

Who, exactly, is the genius behind this design - do they grasp at all what the philosophies behind the Ultima world, and the actual meaning of the word 'loyalty', are? And do they have the faintest clue how frustrating the players find endlessly tedious 'quests?

you miss the point, this is a game and not a work, we can't keep doing this loyalty activities forever... I'm already pretty boring to arrest people and set out fires everyday, this game has many other things we can do than the same thing everyday for the rest of our lives... and for what? being able to move a banner?

I can understand this only if you get something REALLY foundamental for the character, for example if you get +50 hp if you still adored, everyone will keep the loyalty, but a banner for how good it can looks in your home will not stays forever in the same place, and neither I will keep going to maintain the loyalty if I have not fun in doing it...

If you like those repetitive activities, you should try a slot machine, for the same price of the UO subscription you can earn something real....

 

[Aurelius]

you miss the point, this is a game and not a work, we can't keep going doing this loyalty activities forever... I'm already pretty boring to arrest people and set out fires everyday, this game has many other things we can do than the same thing everyday for the rest of our lives... and for what? being able to move a banner?

I can understand this only if you get something REALLY foundamental for the character, for example if you get +50 hp if you still adored, everyone will keep the loyalty, but a banner for how good it can looks in your home will not stays forever in the same place, and neither I will keep going to maintain the loyalty if I have not fun in doing it...

If you like those repetitive activities, you should try a slot machine, for the same price of the UO subscription you can earn something real....

No Pinco, I don't miss the point at all - it's just the only way I can see to is work around a shoddy, poorly thought out mess of a mechanic EA have come up with. We should just be able to hang whatever banners our characters have earned in the houses we own. But... they have made that impossible, so we either need them to fix it (don't hold your breath...) or we work around it, as usual.

 

[Pinco]

No Pinco, I don't miss the point at all - it's just the only way I can see to is work around a shoddy, poorly thought out mess of a mechanic EA have come up with. We should just be able to hang whatever banners our characters have earned in the houses we own. But... they have made that impossible, so we either need them to fix it (don't hold your breath...) or we work around it, as usual.

the problem is not now, the problem is when you will not being able to earn loyalty anymore... which means that you will be unable to move the banners...

 

[Aurelius]

the problem is not now, the problem is when you will not being able to earn loyalty anymore... which means that you will be unable to move the banners...

It's a problem now as existing loyalty decays - not many folks will want, or be able, to set aside a chunk of their playing time every day keeping loyalty topped up in case they need to move, or redesign their existing home - and anyone who moves house without being aware of this issue will be extremely unimpressed when they find most of their hard-earned banners won't move unless they have kept slogging along keeping town loyalty high.

 

[Frarc]

As ever with UO, there is a bizarre 'workround' we can resort to, to get around stupid design - it's not fast, but the solution might be to trade the houses between the accounts, so you place a banner, trade to a different loyalty character on the second account, and go through placing all the banners.

Stupid to land players with that, since it would take months, and is a painful way to get something to work - but given the inability of the designers to actually think through what they are doing, it's not impossible we'll be stuck with a system like that for quite a while...

That won't work with my multiple houses on several accounts.Not planning to loose some of my houses cause for a banner.

The Solution is simple. Allow the Owner of the house place all banners no matter what Loyalty they have.

 

[virtualhabitat]

I have worked loyalty in five towns to adored. I intended to get all of the banners. I can say for certain I will only work trinsic and yew once for the banner and never again. I don't care if they offer a cloak of never dying or some other silly reward. This arresting rioters is extremely tedious and boring.

The thought of having to chase rioters around for the rest of the game just so I can deed and redeed a deco banner is insane. I have done nothing else for days. If this isn't changed I will abandon this crazy-ass story arc for good. To hell with your rewards and your loyalty.

 

[AirmidCecht]

Sheesh some loyalty you all have! <---kidding!!

I will forward this thread on and hope for some discussion but please for the love of all UO don't get snippy straight off the mark. Let's show a unified community about an issue we see happening.

Also: Virtualhabitat I could stare at your avatar all day and get nothing done...

 

[Frarc]

Ley me try to explain it the way i see it for me. (Peronaly)

We have a big CAT Family. We heard about the troubles in all towns. the"Family" decided to help all the towns but because its take a lot of effort to protect one town we decided between the family that we would each protect each a different town.
Now we are all "rewarded" for our work and bring our banners home. We are proud as a family to help everyone and want to show that in one single house.

 

[Tazar]

I worked up loyalty on 9 characters on Atlantic - but sadly, some of those characters do not have houses on Atlantic... the house on those accounts are on other shards. So at this point, I don't even see a reason to put the 250k into the gold sink for the banners. I can't use the banners, and I really can't sell them since the receiving person would have to work up the loyalty too.

I hope they do look into this issue. I was planning on building a room to display all of the banners.

Also, I wish they would make a similar change with the veteran reward rugs. I have a similar problem with them in that I can place them in a co-owned house (the owner house is a rune library with no room for the large rugs), but once placed - no one can claim the rewards from them because they do not own the house - or the character that owns the house is not old enough.

 

[Pinco]

I worked up loyalty on 9 characters on Atlantic - but sadly, some of those characters do not have houses on Atlantic... the house on those accounts are on other shards. So at this point, I don't even see a reason to put the 250k into the gold sink for the banners. I can't use the banners, and I really can't sell them since the receiving person would have to work up the loyalty too.

I hope they do look into this issue. I was planning on building a room to display all of the banners.

Also, I wish they would make a similar change with the veteran reward rugs. I have a similar problem with them in that I can place them in a co-owned house (the owner house is a rune library with no room for the large rugs), but once placed - no one can claim the rewards from them because they do not own the house - or the character that owns the house is not old enough.

co-owners works too... the only problem here is that you must be adored to place the banner (everytime).

 

[Tazar]

I am not sure co-owners will work... I can't co-own enough characters to my houses to cover them all - and since I am over the limit from when KR would allow it - I'd have to un-co-own a lot of characters to be able to do it that I could never re-co-own.

 

[Aurelius]

That won't work with my multiple houses on several accounts.Not planning to loose some of my houses cause for a banner.

The Solution is simple. Allow the Owner of the house place all banners no matter what Loyalty they have.

The solution is one we can push EA for - the workround is what we can do if they don't respond... Grandfathered accounts, I agree, lose out, but if you just have the two or so current accounts, you can swap ownerships as needed - but it takes a lot of time if you want to try get all banners in one house.

 

[AirmidCecht]

I suspect part of the issue was not wanting them to be randomly sold to any player that had not actually worked towards a towns loyalty.

 

[Kojak]

coowners work - and i'm sure lots of people would be more than happy to buy a banner - lol

 

[Merus]

I suspect part of the issue was not wanting them to be randomly sold to any player that had not actually worked towards a towns loyalty.

This.

 

[Frarc]

coowners work - and i'm sure lots of people would be more than happy to buy a banner - lol

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CoOwners works awesome! ​

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I made CoOwners of all my character who are doing town Loyalty.​

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This will work for now as long i don't move the banners or keep Loyalty up. ​

 

[Coldren]

The fact that loyalty decays is definitely going to be a future problem.

I hope they turn the decay off...

 

[Odin of Europa]

Wait, what?!? Thats totally stupid!

I was planning on working loyalty in all towns. I only have one account though so I was going to work seven on my main shard, two on another and transfer those two over to my main shard .. thats not going to be possible

 

[Cogniac]

Yet another reason to feel good about my decision to give up at Commended in one town.

 

[Ludes]

Maybe the raiders are going to start swarming the land and looting houses.. displaying a Trinsic banner will make the Trinsic raiders leave ya alone..
Then you only have to defend your house from raiders from other cities. It'll sure bring players in to keep their houses from being burnt down.


lol

 

[Aurelius]

I suspect part of the issue was not wanting them to be randomly sold to any player that had not actually worked towards a towns loyalty.

Which could have been done in so many other ways than this.....

And Ludes - I understand your point about RP (in the other thread on the Town Loyalty system) but I have many characters, and if I wanted to RP one being loyal to each town - I'm stuck with only one banner in their shared house. I don't like being forced to pick and choose which one I have to prefer in any way, this system included. It's a banner. I can fly pretty much any flag I want - hell, in UO, I can choose furniture with a town style in it's name, chaos or order shields, commemorative items for Lord British, the companions, Blackthorn, Casca, any and all of the Virtues including Chaos... but not show the banners of the cities that make up the realm - which is rather frustrating when my main characters are all about the defence and support of the entire kingdom, which is why they tend to wear the sash for the Britannian Guard, not some random locality where they happen to have been born, or live near.

 

[OvenBird]

Do the banners redeed automatically if you customize the house?

 

[Frarc]

Do the banners redeed automatically if you customize the house?

The Banner stays on the wall when you go in to customize house mode.

 

[popps]

So it is 'meaningful' for every character to have their own loyalties, but only one of them - in a house shared by them all - can put their banner on display? That 'reasoning' of yours only makes sense when each character - not player - has one home that is theirs alone. Following the logic of your 'you can only display what is 'your character's loyalty', either we should have one character per account, or one house per character, or town loyalty is applied equally to all of your characters on an account - regardless of RP or personal character history. Anything else fails to fit your logic.....

Personally, I would have made the loyalty account bound per shard.

That is, all characters in an account could only be loyal to a Town, period........

 

[Aurelius]

Personally, I would have made the loyalty account bound per shard.

That is, all characters in an account could only be loyal to a Town, period........

So my seven seperate characters are forced to be loyal to only one town, regardless of personal histories? You are blurring the distinction between player and character far too much for me to agree with that proposition. Account wide is about the player. Actions in the game are about the character.

 

[Shakkar]

co owners may place, and im sure after event is over it will require no loyalty to place from deed form later on after event.Has anyone even tryed to place one the second time yet? alot of times only first placement requires a requirment ,after that its usable by anyone no restriction. some vet rewards currently work this way. do these banners?

 

[popps]

So my seven seperate characters are forced to be loyal to only one town, regardless of personal histories? You are blurring the distinction between player and character far too much for me to agree with that proposition. Account wide is about the player. Actions in the game are about the character.

But if it was account restricted it would be much easier for the design to build around Town Loyalty a number of additions.

For example, if there is a rivalry between, say, Trinsic and Moonglow and a player being loyal to Moonglow has the House around Trinsic, trinsic villagers could be set to assault houses of accounts not loyal to the town they are built near to......

If a player can change loyalty banners as they were a shirt for that same house, then the issue of being loyal to a town becomes pointless, IMHO.

It pretty much depends, I would imagine, how far the Developers are thinking to bring Town Loyalty. If all it means is getting a few banners then loyalty to a Town is just a consumable, otherwise, if there is a goal to make Towns the new Factions, well, then being loyal to a Town should really be an issue to keep in the highest regards as it could have future side effects.... It all depends what Town loyalty is all about which, at least that I could have read so far, we have not yet been told..........

 

[Sevin0oo0]

Personally, I would have made the loyalty account bound per shard.
That is, all characters in an account could only be loyal to a Town, period........

some accounts are not solely run by a single person. ie mom,dad,kids, all on a single account. I've seen many accounts that were shared, and I've been in a household that shared toon slots. I think it'd be an undue hardship to restrict them, granted only one house, but others have a right to pick their city, imo

 

[popps]

some accounts are not solely run by a single person. ie mom,dad,kids, all on a single account. I've seen many accounts that were shared, and I've been in a household that shared toon slots. I think it'd be an undue hardship to restrict them, granted only one house, but others have a right to pick their city, imo

I can understand it BUT, given that accounts are restricted to 1 House per shard, I have a hard time imagining that same House hosting characters loyal to different towns, even towns hostile to each other......
Sorry, but it makes no sense to me.

If a House hosts various characters, well, then the way I see it all those characters being hosted in that same House should either be loyal to that same town OR, at the very least, be neutral to the Town that the House is loyal to.

 

[Pinco]

co owners may place, and im sure after event is over it will require no loyalty to place from deed form later on after event.Has anyone even tryed to place one the second time yet? alot of times only first placement requires a requirment ,after that its usable by anyone no restriction. some vet rewards currently work this way. do these banners?

you need the loyalty everytime you place it :/

 

[Sevin0oo0]

@popps
oh yeah, the kids didn't want nuttin to do with us, duh. and they kept their stuff elsewhere, house-wise, we're pack-rats enough. They had their own groups of friends they play with, often on different shards than the house owner. I've met players in the past, their 'main' shard was TC1, spending near a year at a time there - those had houses. So a House may not host various characters, and the ones not the house owner may not be even friended at the house.

 

[Aurelius]

I can understand it BUT, given that accounts are restricted to 1 House per shard, I have a hard time imagining that same House hosting characters loyal to different towns, even towns hostile to each other......
Sorry, but it makes no sense to me.

If a House hosts various characters, well, then the way I see it all those characters being hosted in that same House should either be loyal to that same town OR, at the very least, be neutral to the Town that the House is loyal to.

The house limitation is not 'sensible' within the game, but was necessary when UO was heavily populated and housing space was rare. Neither of those cases apply to the current situation.

 

[Aurelius]

But if it was account restricted it would be much easier for the design to build around Town Loyalty a number of additions.

If the options are 'easy' or 'right', right wins for me every time - you seem to disagree with that concept though.