Town banners, Get Rid of Them!

[Lost-Soul]

Has anyone else seen these new town banners? I saw my first the other day, inside luna walls of all places. Am I the only one who believes that there is no way that a player town banner should be placed inside the walls of legitimate UO town? I also fear that the old EM favoritism is on its way back. Due to the fact that the basis of if you get your banner approved falls on the shoulders of the EM itself.

 

[Morgana LeFay (PoV)]

Call me paranoid, but I have never cared for things like EMs and Seers handing out "rare" items or anyhthing else to players. It seems like every time this starts up, the same handful of players always know exactly when and exactly where to be in order to get the limited uber-rare what-nots.

If EMs are going to hand out things, it should be done through some in-game mechanism, like Vet rewards or holiday gifts.

Sorry, I know a lot of people really like these events, and the unique items they generate...but I remember how this corrupted this game in the past, and I saw what it did to good people. If you really want to understand my point, have a talk with Ahu...he can tell you things (that are 100% true) that will make you understand.

These things are too subjective, and subjectivity lends itself to corruption and bias.

 

[Crystal Canyon]

Has anyone else seen these new town banners? I saw my first the other day, inside luna walls of all places. Am I the only one who believes that there is no way that a player town banner should be placed inside the walls of legitimate UO town? I also fear that the old EM favoritism is on its way back. Due to the fact that the basis of if you get your banner approved falls on the shoulders of the EM itself.

There is no "favortism" with the banners. It is simply part of role play where you ask the Queen for a player run town to be reconized and then a banner is erected for your town. There are rules in place as to what is considered to be a town of course. Its great fun and a very good way to promote community. You should try to make your own town, then you will see what it is all about...and maybe enjoy it!!!

 

[MalagAste]

Call me paranoid, but I have never cared for things like EMs and Seers handing out "rare" items or anyhthing else to players. It seems like every time this starts up, the same handful of players always know exactly when and exactly where to be in order to get the limited uber-rare what-nots.

If EMs are going to hand out things, it should be done through some in-game mechanism, like Vet rewards or holiday gifts.

Sorry, I know a lot of people really like these events, and the unique items they generate...but I remember how this corrupted this game in the past, and I saw what it did to good people. If you really want to understand my point, have a talk with Ahu...he can tell you things (that are 100% true) that will make you understand.

These things are too subjective, and subjectivity lends itself to corruption and bias.

For your information..... and the information of other "uninformed" people...... the EM's do NOT give out any of this....

These items are EARNED off of fighting MOBS created by the EM's ...... ANYONE fighting them and participating has the same odds to GET any one of the items given....

"IF" the EM's hand out ANYTHING.... they do so in a very FAIR manner.... often times to ANYONE and everyone who participates, is there shows up and reads the boards about where to be.... when......

So if you CHOOSE NOT to participate ..... then you have NOTHING to say about NOT getting something.....

Also often the EM's help move the plotlines of the instory arc.... and I'm sorry you don't give a rats about that but some of us do....

And as for the Banners those are approved by the DEV team..... NOT the EM's... And it's Messana who constructs them....

As for the banners at Luna those are just the showing of who basicly HAS a banner.... those do not in anyway mean that Luna has an RP town......

And for your information the City of Yew in Tram and previously in Fel on GL's has had a town council and town participation since the dawn of guilds... The Yew Town Council was one of the first ever town councils formed.... and it's still in existence....


So before you go getting all bent out of shape and your undies in a bunch why don't you check the facts.

 

[Martyna Zmuir]

Uhm, news flash... But the banners get approved and built by Mesanna, not the EMs. The EMs only facilitate the process.

Furthermore, players do NOT receive *ANYTHING* for having a banner. (aside from the banner existing, obviously) They have no control over the banner, no special powers, nada. It simply exists.

If you want to join the ranks of whiny babies who cry foul every time they don't get something from an event when someone else did, please get a therapist.

 

[XLaCeDX]

There is no "favortism" with the banners. It is simply part of role play where you ask the Queen for a player run town to be reconized and then a banner is erected for your town. There are rules in place as to what is considered to be a town of course. Its great fun and a very good way to promote community. You should try to make your own town, then you will see what it is all about...and maybe enjoy it!!!

"There is no "favortism" with the banners. It is simply part of role play where you ask the Queen for a player run town to be reconized and then a banner is erected for your town. There are rules in place as to what is considered to be a town of course."



Sorry you are very very wrong:


http://s662.photobucket.com/albums/...tLunchLady/?action=view&current=pahbanner.jpg

Apparently you just need a house a date and Mesanna? as your friend ingame...


Edit: Zoom In

 

[Lost-Soul]

For those of you who have no idea of what I am talking about go to

http://pacific.uoem.net/?page_id=10

 

[Crystal Canyon]

"There is no "favortism" with the banners. It is simply part of role play where you ask the Queen for a player run town to be reconized and then a banner is erected for your town. There are rules in place as to what is considered to be a town of course."



Sorry you are very very wrong:


http://s662.photobucket.com/albums/...tLunchLady/?action=view&current=pahbanner.jpg

Apparently you just need a house a date and Mesanna? as your friend ingame...


Edit: Zoom In

Well sir, I will beg to differ with you. You don't need to be a "friend" of anyone to receive a banner for your town. Have you applied for one? Were you turned down because you were not a "friend" of Mesanna? I highly doubt that any of that has happened.

And your link proves what? There is a pond built by Mesanna? Ok...and the problem here is what? No player owns that pond nor can they do anything with it that you cant.

Ill give you the same advise I gave someone earlier...go make your own town, ask for recognition, and get your own banner. Ill bet you will feel so much better if you do!!!

Please let us all know how this turns out. I, for one, would be curious to know if you were denied one because of your social status.

 

[Lost-Soul]

Where is your town? A house inside luna walls? An auction house? So everyhouse in luna will have one soon is what you are saying. Unless Mesanna says they can't have one. Smells like favoritism.

 

[Falseprophet]

Where is your town? A house inside luna walls? An auction house? So everyhouse in luna will have one soon is what you are saying. Unless Mesanna says they can't have one. Smells like favoritism.

Nope ours is in Ter-mur. I dont think there is one in luna yet on our shard

 

[Morgana LeFay (PoV)]

For your information..... and the information of other "uninformed" people...... the EM's do NOT give out any of this....

Umm...I don't know about these exact items, but if you have a character on Atlantic, I can show you some things that I personally got from a couple of EMs that only a handful of other people got...sashes, a robe, and a couple of other items. A few of these were gotten from events (during the Casca storyline)...others were given to me and a few others who just happened to be in the right place at the right time.

Again, what I said was not in direct reference to these exact items...but before you go calling someone "uninformed", it might be a good idea to find out exactly what they know.

 

[Crystal Canyon]

Where is your town? A house inside luna walls? An auction house? So everyhouse in luna will have one soon is what you are saying. Unless Mesanna says they can't have one. Smells like favoritism.

Once you have set up a town, applied to be recognized, and then got denied a banner and status, come back here and we will talk....and Ill be on your side!

Sound fair? You really cant make assumptions like this until you, yourself, have asked for the same thing another player has and been denied. Then and only then, can even attempt to shout out favoritism.

BTW, my town house and city is Termur. Soooooo..whatcha think...favortism?

 

[XLaCeDX]

"There is no "favortism" with the banners. It is simply part of role play where you ask the Queen for a player run town to be reconized and then a banner is erected for your town. There are rules in place as to what is considered to be a town of course."



Sorry you are very very wrong:


http://s662.photobucket.com/albums/...tLunchLady/?action=view&current=pahbanner.jpg

Apparently you just need a house a date and Mesanna? as your friend ingame...


Edit: Zoom In

Well sir, I will beg to differ with you. You don't need to be a "friend" of anyone to receive a banner for your town. Have you applied for one? Were you turned down because you were not a "friend" of Mesanna? I highly doubt that any of that has happened.

And your link proves what? There is a pond built by Mesanna? Ok...and the problem here is what? No player owns that pond nor can they do anything with it that you cant.

Ill give you the same advise I gave someone earlier...go make your own town, ask for recognition, and get your own banner. Ill bet you will feel so much better if you do!!!

Please let us all know how this turns out. I, for one, would be curious to know if you were denied one because of your social status.

"Well sir, I will beg to differ with you. You don't need to be a "friend" of anyone to receive a banner for your town."


I am not a sir for one and for two it clearly states this is a "house" not a "town".


I was at the Pacific EM meeting when we were told about "town" banners and Cyno Razik specifically stated that only "towns" consisting of several houses and populated by several players consituted a "town" eligible for a "town" banner.

I am amazed at how quickly the rules have been broken, and I am very disappointed with Mesanna and I hope she gets a pink slip this Thanksgiving (or this minute).

 

[Lost-Soul]

Wonders if your house is even 6 months old if it is in Ter Mur and what it has done to earn recognition other than applying.

 

[Falseprophet]

Wonders if your house is even 6 months old if it is in Ter Mur and what it has done to earn recognition other than applying.

what does the age of it have to do with anything? it doesn't state anywhere that there is an age requirement. the only requirement is that it be a player owned structure. If your shard is handling it differently, my suggestion is contact Messana directly and ask her for help. you can contact her via [email protected] or by pm on these boards

 

[Crystal Canyon]

Wonders if your house is even 6 months old if it is in Ter Mur and what it has done to earn recognition other than applying.

When the Queen and her assistant came to walk through our city and determine whether we should be recognized or not, they toured each house and ask many questions. Questions such as "how will the town serve other players, will we provide vendors for them or other services, will the houses be open to the public so that they can use them?... and other questions such as these. They didn't just show up and say "here ya go...we will make you banner now".

Like I said before, try it yourself. You seem to be uninformed about how the banners came to be.

 

[It Lives]

Well, I have a house in luna not far from the overpriced trade house. It's been there just as long...if not longer.

Even if I wanted a "town" banner there is absolutely not a inch of ground to place it.. that being said how many other peeps fall under that situation or some thing like it?

I say it was a bad choice to even offer this highly selective option go in the game IMO.

 

[Falseprophet]

Well, I have a house in luna not far from the overpriced trade house. It's been there just as long...if not longer.

Even if I wanted a "town" banner there is absolutely not a inch of ground to place it.. that being said how many other peeps fall under that situation or some thing like it?

I say it was a bad choice to even offer this highly selective option go in the game IMO.

Have you even tried? there may not be anywhere to place it but Messana will figure something out. She is very good at what she does. and its not selective anyone can apply for and receive this. again if you have applied for it and been turned down, contact Messana.

 

[Crystal Canyon]

Well, I have a house in luna not far from the overpriced trade house. It's been there just as long...if not longer.

Even if I wanted a "town" banner there is absolutely not a inch of ground to place it.. that being said how many other peeps fall under that situation or some thing like it?

I say it was a bad choice to even offer this highly selective option go in the game IMO.

Our banner is not right beside any of our homes there either. It is up the road on the corner. It isn't a problem at all. We are still a recognized player run town and the banner still represents our town. We love it and are proud of it!

 

[Lost-Soul]

It is an obvious waste of resources IMHO. Requiring someone to place these and eventually take them down as houses are sold or as people quit. Anyone remember how long it took to deal with the houses owned by OSI?

 

[LordDrago]

While there is the possibility for favoratism by EMs, Mesanna, etc. unless there is a lot more proof, saying such means absolutely nothing.

Some people are just more informed than others. They have friends that happen upon events and send out PMs, guild chat messages, ventrilo, ICQ, whatever.

As far as town banners? There are set guidelines for these, and as far as I can determine, these guidelines have been followed.

If you are upset that you do not have a town banner, establish a town. There, problem fixed.

And just because somones banner happens to be a pond? Good for them. They have the real estate (through house placement to have it). Has anyone else been denied the same by Mesanna? If they were, was there reason (blocking houe placement (which the picture in this thread does not)?

 

[Jandruz]

Uhm, news flash... But the banners get approved and built by Mesanna, not the EMs. The EMs only facilitate the process.

Furthermore, players do NOT receive *ANYTHING* for having a banner. (aside from the banner existing, obviously) They have no control over the banner, no special powers, nada. It simply exists.

I was going to write almost the exact same thing, but figured no reason to reinvent the wheel when Martyna got it right.

 

[Martyna Zmuir]

Okay kids, unwad your knickers for a bit.

The banner that Lost-Soul is up in arms about is NOT a town banner, it is an establishment banner. (Requirements for each are different)

They are for establishments which exchange community through their actions. (Through events and the like) While some poo-poo auction houses as events, they tend to draw a diverse cross section of players - who in general have an enjoyable time.

That’s called building community. Mythic has chosen to recognize this with some pretty pixels that aren't terribly hard to qualify for.

So, instead of raging against the heavens, why don't you do something to get one of your own or join an already established group/establishment?

 

[Dryzzid of Atlantic]

Town Banners are awarded by an application process and handled by Mesanna, not EMs.

EM event items are given out as random loot for all to try to get. Items that are handed out given are given to everyone at the event. Items are pre-approved by people with more say than the EMs.

Where is there room for favoritism?

Also, can these banners be picked up and sold? Does anyone in particular own them? No. They add flavor to the scenery and depth to each shard. These guilds have used hard work to develop towns and legacies, and their legacies were rewarded by a system created to do so fairly.

I cannot seem to understand why anyone would have a problem with this, other than pure, petty spite and jealousy.

 

[Martyna Zmuir]

I cannot seem to understand why anyone would have a problem with this, other than pure, petty spite and jealousy.

QFT.

 

[MalagAste]

Umm...I don't know about these exact items, but if you have a character on Atlantic, I can show you some things that I personally got from a couple of EMs that only a handful of other people got...sashes, a robe, and a couple of other items. A few of these were gotten from events (during the Casca storyline)...others were given to me and a few others who just happened to be in the right place at the right time.

Again, what I said was not in direct reference to these exact items...but before you go calling someone "uninformed", it might be a good idea to find out exactly what they know.

All of the EM's Gave out sashes..... the first time.... when they were allowed to.... to anyone who came .....

On GLs they asked about feedback..... and asked people for input on what sort of things they could do..... that would be "fun"...

But if you read the boards the official EM boards you would know that......

One would think you would know that seeing as you read these forums often enough....

But apparently that's not the case...

The ROBES were announced by EA/DEV's that they would be given out and the EM's gave them out on at LEAST 3 occasions that were WELL posted and announced.. if you weren't able to get one that's too D**N bad.....

That was given to EVERYONE Zero favoritism....

All you had to do was show up.

And again.... because people don't read what the hell goes on in the game they play doesn't mean those who like to be informed should miss out....

I'm surprised time and time again by people who can't be bothered to keep informed who whine about not being informed... Everyone who plays UO knows how to read... if they choose not to that's tough S***......

 

[G.v.P]

lol a town inside Luna walls is pretty silly

 

[MalagAste]

lol a town inside Luna walls is pretty silly

And for your information the banners are NOT just given out to towns.... they are also given out to guilds to do things and hold events for the communities in which they live.

 

[GarthGrey]

I just wish she would remove the DSFASFA houses on LA like she SAID she would. She apparently doesn't have the time to do that, but can put out Luna fires, and drop houses for friends, and then put up these banners.

 

[Lost-Soul]

Okay kids, unwad your knickers for a bit.

The banner that Lost-Soul is up in arms about is NOT a town banner, it is an establishment banner. (Requirements for each are different)

They are for establishments which exchange community through their actions. (Through events and the like) While some poo-poo auction houses as events, they tend to draw a diverse cross section of players - who in general have an enjoyable time.

That’s called building community. Mythic has chosen to recognize this with some pretty pixels that aren't terribly hard to qualify for.

So, instead of raging against the heavens, why don't you do something to get one of your own or join an already established group/establishment?

Yes this is the one i have a problem with, so far. But the reason I have a problem with it is because it is inside luna walls. There are 20+ houses per shard inside luna walls that could qualify under these loose regulatory guidelines (and one person is the one to basically approve or disapprove). My second problem is the fact that these houses are bought and sold on a fairly regular basis. These "establisments/towns" should stand on their own outside of the current town walls.

 

[Dryzzid of Atlantic]

Yes this is the one i have a problem with, so far. But the reason I have a problem with it is because it is inside luna walls. There are 20+ houses per shard inside luna walls that could qualify under these loose regulatory guidelines (and one person is the one to basically approve or disapprove). My second problem is the fact that these houses are bought and sold on a fairly regular basis. These "establisments/towns" should stand on their own outside of the current town walls.

There are 20+ houses per shard, yes, but how many of them are dedicated to providing a service to the shard as a whole? Sure, people have tons of vendors with Luna overpriced items on them, but the PAH frequently organizes and hosts events for not only the Pacific Shard, but for other shards as well. (I realized the Rares Auction did not go well the last time it was held, but still it was an event coordinated to serve the UO community at large.)

If any other of those 20+ houses per shard do the same as that, then they deserve their own banner.

 

[Martyna Zmuir]

Yes this is the one i have a problem with, so far. But the reason I have a problem with it is because it is inside luna walls. There are 20+ houses per shard inside luna walls that could qualify under these loose regulatory guidelines (and one person is the one to basically approve or disapprove). My second problem is the fact that these houses are bought and sold on a fairly regular basis. These "establisments/towns" should stand on their own outside of the current town walls.

The auction house holds regular auctions, correct? And has for a LONG time?

This is why it got the banner.

The Rares Fest had its own 'banners' and such, and those helping to run it got named surcoats (timered to decay after the outcry).

Again, other establishments can apply for banners as well. Perhaps they have, but Mesanna simply hasn't been able to build them yet.

Before you cry favoritism and whine on the boards, try asking around. Ask your EMs, ask other establishments.

However, PAH doesn't have to answer to you.

 

[Lost-Soul]

The PAH auction house provides a service to themselves and nobody else. The auctions they conduct are for a percent of the sales. Not to mention that auction house has not been there since 2003 like the banner says. I have not seen them conduct any events at this location since their total failure of an auction at the rares festival.

 

[Martyna Zmuir]

Wah.

 

[Lost-Soul]

Wah.

Its ok you dont have to cry.

 

[GalenKnighthawke]

Very sad that people feel the need to try and tear down one of the comparatively few real community supports EA provides.

Others have done an adequate job with the specifics of why the whining is....Well, is just that, rather than a legitimate point.

Some players feel the need to see every aspect of this game as a competition, and tear other players down.

While these players are a small minority of players overall, they are quite vocal and are represented on Stratics far out of proportion to their number in-game.

The same people who come to EM events and spam for an item, think the event "sucks" when items aren't handed out. Then, one week, items are there to be earned, but not everyone gets them. So, they whine about favoritism when luck and their own performance weren't up to the task.

*shrugs*

All I can really do is pray EA sees through the stupidity and continues the EMs more or less are they are, because there's really no reasoning with it.

-Galen's player

 

[Beleth of Atlantic]

I can sum up this thread in TWO letters.

QQ.

If you want a banner read up on the requirements, meet them and apply. If you want to try and cheat the system and get one, try and cheat the system and get one.

If you cheat the system and succeed do I care? NO. Why? Because the banner does NOT provide any benefit to you besides feeding a pixel crack addiction. If you cheat the system and fail? Then work hard and meet the requirements.

Please continue with the QQing now, I feed off of peoples forum tears.

 

[Viper09]

And this is why EMs can't hand out neat items anymore...people always complain if they don't get something in this game.

Want one bad enough? Well you know how to get one! So go and meet the requirements to get a banner! Otherwise just live with it. Seriously. Stop trying to ruin the game for communities of players.

 

[Lady Michelle]

While I was readying these posts all I could think of is that pond would be a nice add on deed for houses.
It is sad though that someone who sees something some one else has put up in front of their house because they applied for it, and crys about it because its inside the walls of a town.

Congratulations to those who did take the time to make player made towns, & establishments to receive these banners of recognition.
oh and see Im not selfish I could of said I want a pond, but I included everyone by say that pond would be a nice add on deed for houses.

 

[yars]

my guild has a banner, its quite nifty i love it. the one on pac in front of the auction house is pretty cool too. its a nice addtion to the sterile brick walls around the town of luna.
to me this argument is like saying you dont like the way someones house is decorated.
i could see if it interrupted game play. the only thing i think it bothers(the banner in the OP post) is the golem beaters and spell scripters out front. which to me is visually unappealing.
as the old saying in uo goes: you dont have to interact with it, meaning go somewhere else,bank in brit.

 

[Lost-Soul]

So now all you need is a guild for a banner. Nice! Guess I'll apply for 6 banners per account, per shard.

 

[Viper09]

So now all you need is a guild for a banner. Nice! Guess I'll apply for 6 banners per account, per shard.

Read below. From post 15

the only requirement is that it be a player owned structure. If your shard is handling it differently, my suggestion is contact Messana directly and ask her for help. you can contact her via [email protected] or by pm on these boards

 

[yars]

and they wont augment existing terrain to put it up

 

[Tina Small]

If you have questions about banners for "towns" and/or "establishments," it's probably best to use the EM forum or website for your shard to ask what the rules currently are, or what they will be if banners haven't been made available yet on your shard. The rules haven't necessarily been consistent across shards.

 

[G.v.P]

And for your information the banners are NOT just given out to towns.... they are also given out to guilds to do things and hold events for the communities in which they live.

hehe yeah I know, I'm part of one of the bigger cities on Chesapeake

 

[Lady Aalia]

So now all you need is a guild for a banner. Nice! Guess I'll apply for 6 banners per account, per shard.

I applied for a townbanner for my village, and it was granted.
Its nothing big, and i love the little flair it adds

But there is a bit more then just owning a guild, or 2 houses...
And no i didnt know Mesanna eather when i applied...

Application:

Please send your banner applications to both [email protected]his e-mail address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it and [email protected]his e-mail address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it These should include:

1. Town name
2. Town location (please leave a rune to your town in the EM Reward Hall mailbox)
3. Date the town was founded
4. Number of houses
5. Suggested coordinates for the banner
6. InsideUO numbers for the components of the banner
7. A jpg of the proposed banner
8. As well as answers to these questions:
A) Define: Which houses are part of the town and what marks a house as part of the town?
B) Activity: How does your town promote a vibrant community?
C) History: Where can one find more information about the history of your town?
D) Communication: How would visitors to your town normally communicate with its inhabitants?
E) Describe: How does the banner's design reflect your town and the Atlantic community?

Also include: Where you would prefer the banner to be placed with coordinates


Banner Design

We reserve the right to make changes to your design and its location. Also, the banner must not block house placement. Here is a page with more information on banners, including an exploded view of a banner’s design. http://www.uoguide.com/File:Gyldenfeld_banner_exploded.jpg
InsideUO should be used to find the correct ID numbers of the components for the proposed banner.It will also help you to construct a picture of the banner.

Banners are limited to a size of 6x6 tiles. Designs should be similar to the Gyldenfeld banner in terms of size, complexity and number of items used. Banner designs that do not meet the requirements will be returned.


Town Recognition Requirements:

1) Minimum of 5 Establishments in a geographical area that promotes the community of the inhabitants. If you are applying for a tavern or single establishment, it must meet all of the other requirements listed except for leadership.

2) Some sort of leadership structure, mayor, council for example.

3) Town Activity, the town should have citizens around at least a few times each week, usually with some announced meetings or events.

4) Must have 6 months of history. There should be an archive of records either in game or outside of the game.

5) Web Sites and/or Message Boards, mailbox, books, barkeep or other ways to communicate with citizens, patrons, and visitors. The web site or board usually gives information about what the town is designed for, who the mayor is, and how people can get involved with the town.

Benefits:

A banner placed in the town, the town has design input. In the future we may add gates connecting the towns to a central area (perhaps the Luna Fair Grounds)


Special thanks to Mesanna and the Chesapeake, Great Lakes, Origin and Europa Event Moderators for making this possible.

Here is the application you have to submit...

It took me 2 days to get it all together especially finding the links to Events we ran in the past...

Then i submitted it to the Ems , they in turn looked at my place to see if i even qualified...

After my application was approved , and the EMs approved my village then it went to Mesanna.


So, everyone has the option to apply, and it adds to the comunity... I love the program.

 

[Shelra]

lol a town inside Luna walls is pretty silly

And for your information the banners are NOT just given out to towns.... they are also given out to guilds to do things and hold events for the communities in which they live.

I am quite positive you took what he mean't totally out of context.

 

[Tazar]

It is an obvious waste of resources IMHO. Requiring someone to place these and eventually take them down as houses are sold or as people quit. Anyone remember how long it took to deal with the houses owned by OSI?

A waste of resources???

How misinformed that statement is... Mesanna has done all of the work on this on her own time after hours - working numerous towns across multiple shards.

There were no EA/Mythic/UO resources wasted other than a the EM's helping coordinate the applications... and considering that the EM program was created for the explicit purpose of helping to build community, encouraging players to provide things for the community fits very much a part of their duties.

 

[Tukaram]

I don't know anything about establishment banners (which is what the OP was complaining about) but the town banners are a great addition. The FCB on Great Lakes has been around for ages. They have a nice area with a lot of houses together, they do community events, I think it is awesome that they got a town banner. The sign does nothing really but sit there and look pretty, and that is still very cool.

Anything to try and build community and get people involved can't be too bad?

 

[cdavbar]

QUIT YOUR BIT*%ING DAMN