[Throwing] THROWING TEMPLATE HELP NEEDED

[Merlin]

One of the few warrior skills I’ve yet to make a jump into yet has been THROWING. The skill is completely new to me, as is using the gargoyle race in general. Having said that, I was searching Stratics for some threads about various templates and seem to have come across a wide array of different set ups, so I wanted to ask the inevitable question: What is your thrower template? What are the advantages/disadvantages? Please share some knowledge with me!

Here are some of the templates I have seen:
Necro/Wraith Thrower
Stealth/Ninja Thrower
Paladin/Bushido Thrower
Sampire Thrower
Mystic Thrower

A few notes/comments of my own:

• I already have a Wraith Archer, so I probably wasn’t planning on doing a Wraith Thrower, unless I am told that it is truly the only viable thrower template.
  
  
• Stealth/Ninja Thrower templates I’ve seen appear to be more geared toward PvP and this toon would be for PVM. Is there any special advantage for using a garg in this set up?
  
  
• I like the idea of a Paladin/Bushido thrower… but is this too basic? Is this just a support role toon, in the vein of an ABC Archer? Would this actually be worth using?
  
  
• I am interested in a “sampire” type of Thrower. I currently run a regular swords Sampire that I use for champ spawns and certain peerless bosses, but how would a thrower compare? I guess you can’t exactly tank bosses or spawns and there are no ‘whirlwind’ type special moves for throwers that I know of for fighting numerous mobs. What are the pluses for this template?
  
  
• Combining a spellcaster skill with a melee skill usually sounds like a bad idea, but this Mystic Thrower template really intrigues me, but also confuses me. I am guessing you can cast an RC for tanking purposes and then just sit behind the RC and hit your target with throwing special moves. However, what are the limits of this template? What do you do about LRC? What other spells are you casting? This template seems like it would need strength, intelligence and dexterity, so what is your set up with base stats?

I am probably going to use a Mythic Token (yes, I’m one of those people) whenever I decide on a template here. So any advice I can get before I do that would be greatly helpful. I typically put 7 skills on all of my toons, with atleast 6 above GM and usually try to incorporate as much skill as possible on other jewels/talismans, etc.

Any other tips about throwing in general or gargoyle gear would be greatly appreciated. Once I have template set up, I will likely make another post looking for some gargoyle gear, as it is something I am completely ignorant about at this time. Any other threads or resources which might discuss this would be helpful.

 

[Lord GOD(GOD)]

I've had several though a lot of the perks that it once had (overcapped HCI, higher base damage) have been nerfed to be inline with Archery.

120 Throwing
120 Tactics
120 Anatomy
120 Bushido
100 Necro
70 SS
70 Chiv

Probably my main Thrower, previously had bandages, previously solo'd Slasher. Can use Vamp Form, Wraith Form, Curse Weapon, Summon Familiars, top damager in most situations. Uses the Berserker's Breastplate.

120 Throwing
90 Tactics
110 Ninjitsu
100 Hiding
80 Stealth
75 Healing
75 Anatomy
70 Chiv

Red Stealth/Thrower, however, you can solo just about everything in PvM with this too although the Hiding and Stealth are redundant in those situations. Things like Meph are no challenge. Also using 100 RPD, , non Phys weapons and 18 HPR.

120 Throwing
120 Swords
100 Tactics
120 Bushido
100 Anatomy
100 Necro
60 Chiv

Secondary shard character (meaning no house/limited equipment) this is for spawning very fast using the Talwar for Whirlwind/Hit Area, although you can do a similar effect with Momentum Strike/Hit Area (which is great if your first target is at a distance as you damage most of the screen). Extremely fast at spawning, Whirlwind the levels then AI spam the champ.
---

Mystic/Thrower, this would be a non optimum build, given the speed constraints of Stone Form, much better to be Mystic/Mace or Fencer. The Stone Form prevents a host of things like Curses (which means your bandage speed can't be dropped) and Poisons, you can easily make a full LRC dexxer suit, Enchant Weapon will make your weapon Spell Chan so you can cast Mystic spells, and add 60 Hit Spell, on things that counter attack where this would be unhelpful you can set it to Dispel, Healing Stone/Cleaning Wind/Spell Trigger(also set to Cleansing Wind) and Colossus (personally I tank so the Colossus lives longer). Played in Protection due to the Stone Form casting penalties there's no reason not to. Takes some working out but not difficult to build a Corpse proof, Prot proof all 85's suit. A lot of fun but very intense to play, you won't get bored trying to upkeep all the things you have to do, this isn't the typical 'spam dexxer specials' template, it's a different play style, sort of auto defend like a Ninja, which is why high base damage weapons you can swing at cap are preferred after penalty. The general point of a Stone Form dexxer is uninterruptible bandages and the ability to fight things that you can't if relying on leeches against things that freeze you (like Slasher).

 

[Merlin]

I've had several though a lot of the perks that it once had (overcapped HCI, higher base damage) have been nerfed to be inline with Archery.

120 Throwing
120 Tactics
120 Anatomy
120 Bushido
100 Necro
70 SS
70 Chiv

Probably my main Thrower, previously had bandages, previously solo'd Slasher. Can use Vamp Form, Wraith Form, Curse Weapon, Summon Familiars, top damager in most situations. Uses the Berserker's Breastplate.

Lord God - Thank you very much for the response. You were one of the folks who I was hoping would provide some insight here, as I saw your name come up in many of the other Thrower threads.

I think I am going to use something very close to your 'main thrower' template above to create my next toon. A few questions for you:

For your skill point allocation... why 120 anat and bushido, as opposed to 100? Is this primarily for the damage bonus? I was just wondering if the extra 20 points in each skill might be better in either Chiv or SS.

Are you primarily using chiv for EOO, Concentrated Wep and Divine Fury?

Why no resist spells? Are you relying on Remove Curse for this?

If I were to use a mythic token to create that template... I'm looking at throwing, tactics, necro, bushido and... what potential 5th skill would you use?

Most of my mages have either mystic or spellweaving as a complimentary skill, as opposed to necro. Are you using familiars frequently in your game play? Aside from the spells you named, are there any others you use somewhat regularly?

Here is my other area of real ignorance: gargoyle gear. I presume you have high stam, LMC. Any other particular arties you use? Do you primarily wear imbued/reforged gear? Or major/legendary artifact gear dropped in game? Any tips/pointers here would be appreciated.


Thanks again so much and hope you don't mind the questions!

 

[Lord GOD(GOD)]

For your skill point allocation... why 120 anat and bushido, as opposed to 100? Is this primarily for the damage bonus? I was just wondering if the extra 20 points in each skill might be better in either Chiv or SS.

Short answer, yes. The goal with the character was to be the hardest hitter, this was before they changed Throwing base damage to the same as Archery, it used to AI for 273 I don't know what it does now. An extra 20 SS I don't think is going to make a lot of difference, when things that run out of mana run out of mana you're mainly going to be leeching from the Hit effect anyway. I'm unconvinced on the benefits of Chivalry at higher levels.

Are you primarily using chiv for EOO, Concentrated Wep and Divine Fury?

I primarily use EoO, I never use Divine Fury, I rarely use Consecrate because it is essentially an AI spammer. I use Sacred Journey, Dispel Evil, and Remove Curse.

Why no resist spells? Are you relying on Remove Curse for this?

Mainly because I wouldn't give up damage for defense on a leecher. Remove Curse and apples.

If I were to use a mythic token to create that template... I'm looking at throwing, tactics, necro, bushido and... what potential 5th skill would you use?

I'm not familiar with how Mythic tokens work, but from what you're saying they sound like Advaned Character tokens? None of the skills on this template are hard to do or take longer than a couple of days so I'd probably sell it.

Most of my mages have either mystic or spellweaving as a complimentary skill, as opposed to necro. Are you using familiars frequently in your game play? Aside from the spells you named, are there any others you use somewhat regularly?

I like having the option. I tend to utilize everything available to me no matter how small. Like on some fights where neither Vamp or Wraith is a good choice I might use Horrific Beast or Lich. I use the familiars for Horde Minions for carrying more gold back from spawns (I don't often bother with this on my main shard) or looting at idocs. Wisp for Mana, not something I've actually done (I have done it on my main Necro/Mage) is bond a pair of Bakes to use with the Dark Wolf. I've also used Corpse Skin 100% fire weapons, Strangle, Pain Spike, Revenants, Exorcism (which I don't think is currently working). I could Wither, but in general I avoid using Necro spells on this template unless the fight requires it, so I can keep my Karma up for Remove Curse.

Here is my other area of real ignorance: gargoyle gear. I presume you have high stam, LMC. Any other particular arties you use? Do you primarily wear imbued/reforged gear? Or major/legendary artifact gear dropped in game? Any tips/pointers here would be appreciated.

I couldn't be bothered to type it all out individually as I've just finished a long shift, but the suit is actually a bit out of date, pre legendaries/reforging. The main goals were max damage, and stats (I can't remember the exact reasoning) because when it came out having 150 Str/Dex did something to your over/under throw penalties. I don't know if that's even still the case. The above obviously doesn't include the weapon. Base stats are 123 Str, 122 Dex, 10 Int, I haven't yet eaten a valiant scroll on any character. I also pretty much never have the town bonus.

 

[Merlin]

Totally awesome man. So much appreciated for the full response. Once I get more play time on the toon, I will follow up with any additional questions.

 

[Prime.]

I've had several though a lot of the perks that it once had (overcapped HCI, higher base damage) have been nerfed to be inline with Archery.

120 Throwing
120 Tactics
120 Anatomy
120 Bushido
100 Necro
70 SS
70 Chiv

Probably my main Thrower, previously had bandages, previously solo'd Slasher. Can use Vamp Form, Wraith Form, Curse Weapon, Summon Familiars, top damager in most situations. Uses the Berserker's Breastplate.

120 Throwing
90 Tactics
110 Ninjitsu
100 Hiding
80 Stealth
75 Healing
75 Anatomy
70 Chiv

Red Stealth/Thrower, however, you can solo just about everything in PvM with this too although the Hiding and Stealth are redundant in those situations. Things like Meph are no challenge. Also using 100 RPD, , non Phys weapons and 18 HPR.

120 Throwing
120 Swords
100 Tactics
120 Bushido
100 Anatomy
100 Necro
60 Chiv

Secondary shard character (meaning no house/limited equipment) this is for spawning very fast using the Talwar for Whirlwind/Hit Area, although you can do a similar effect with Momentum Strike/Hit Area (which is great if your first target is at a distance as you damage most of the screen). Extremely fast at spawning, Whirlwind the levels then AI spam the champ.
---

Mystic/Thrower, this would be a non optimum build, given the speed constraints of Stone Form, much better to be Mystic/Mace or Fencer. The Stone Form prevents a host of things like Curses (which means your bandage speed can't be dropped) and Poisons, you can easily make a full LRC dexxer suit, Enchant Weapon will make your weapon Spell Chan so you can cast Mystic spells, and add 60 Hit Spell, on things that counter attack where this would be unhelpful you can set it to Dispel, Healing Stone/Cleaning Wind/Spell Trigger(also set to Cleansing Wind) and Colossus (personally I tank so the Colossus lives longer). Played in Protection due to the Stone Form casting penalties there's no reason not to. Takes some working out but not difficult to build a Corpse proof, Prot proof all 85's suit. A lot of fun but very intense to play, you won't get bored trying to upkeep all the things you have to do, this isn't the typical 'spam dexxer specials' template, it's a different play style, sort of auto defend like a Ninja, which is why high base damage weapons you can swing at cap are preferred after penalty. The general point of a Stone Form dexxer is uninterruptible bandages and the ability to fight things that you can't if relying on leeches against things that freeze you (like Slasher).

Hihih, may I ask what the 70 in SS is for?? Dark Wolf?

 

[Lord GOD(GOD)]

Hihih, may I ask what the 70 in SS is for?? Dark Wolf?

It's for Wraith Form and Curse Weapon mainly.

 

[Prime.]

It's for Wraith Form and Curse Weapon mainly.

Awesome, thank you!

 

[Elias]

Thanks Lord God.

Could I ask what you run on your weapons for a Spawn killer [hit area?] and a Solo Boss killer?

Thanks!

 

[Lord GOD(GOD)]

SSI/DI/Slayer/Hit Area/HML + Momentum Strike for spawn.

Replace Hit Area with Stam Leech for bosses.

 

[Merlin]

Here's an update on what my toon currently looks like:

115 Throwing (120 with wing armor)
110 Tactics (120 with Talisman)
100 Anatomy
100 Bushido
100 Necro
100 Focus
70 Chivalry

I have about 25 skill points left to work up. I decided to go with Focus instead of SS because I am doing Vamp Form more often than Wraith forum and wanted to have better Stam and Mana regen. I will probably bring Chiv up to 80 or 90 and then throw the remaining points somewhere else. I made the toon to rely on pots to get over 180 stam. I never had made use of pots on other toons yet, so figured it was time to experiment. I have a full set of slayer soul glaives and able to contribute on pretty much any spawn or boss we run. I'm debating if I want to bring Bushido up to 120 or possibly augment some other skill a little higher with some jewels.

Also, most of the stam gear I am running has 8 stam. I wouldn't mind buying some 10 stam gear if anyone has anything that would be useful.

 

[CorwinXX]

How do Focus help you in PvM? You get much mana and stamina from HML and HSL.

There is not much difference between 100 and 80 Bushido for your template.

How do you cure high level poison when you have low HP?

 

[kaio]

If youre gonna do spawns, i assume you will be doing fel spawns. How are you gonna deal with "raids" ?
- purge magic, and poof no more vamp form.
- mana vamp, you cant use specials.
- dismount, your f*cked.
- paralyze, u will need to carry a box.

In general i think your char is too weak for fel/spawns when and if u get raided.

Corwin has some good points also, i agree with him actually.

 

[Merlin]

How do Focus help you in PvM? You get much mana and stamina from HML and HSL.

Right now, I only have Focus on the template as a filler. I am not certain what else to put on here.

Any suggestion from your end? Boost up Bushido and Chivalry? Replace entirely with SS? Maybe replace something else and add Mysticism to cast RC's?

How do you cure high level poison when you have low HP?

I haven't been in that scenario much, but it's a good point. Because I am one handed, I suppose I could get some pots. So far, I have been using Cleanse by Fire to address poison.

If youre gonna do spawns, i assume you will be doing fel spawns. How are you gonna deal with "raids" ?
- purge magic, and poof no more vamp form.
- mana vamp, you cant use specials.
- dismount, your f*cked.
- paralyze, u will need to carry a box.

This character isn't build for PVP, so I hadn't kept being raided in mind. However, I've also noticed raids happening a lot less frequently as of late and my guild usually roles in groups of 5 or more, so my strategy would be to run and hope the raiders get someone else. Haha.

How would you suggest I make changes?

 

[kaio]

Right now, I only have Focus on the template as a filler. I am not certain what else to put on here.

Any suggestion from your end? Boost up Bushido and Chivalry? Replace entirely with SS? Maybe replace something else and add Mysticism to cast RC's?



I haven't been in that scenario much, but it's a good point. Because I am one handed, I suppose I could get some pots. So far, I have been using Cleanse by Fire to address poison.



This character isn't build for PVP, so I hadn't kept being raided in mind. However, I've also noticed raids happening a lot less frequently as of late and my guild usually roles in groups of 5 or more, so my strategy would be to run and hope the raiders get someone else. Haha.

How would you suggest I make changes?

If i were to make a thrower for fel spawns, and had a team.
I think i would make a "classic" thrower, with skills something like this.

120 throw (real)
120 tact (real)
100 ana
100 heal
100 ninja
105 resist (i would buff this to 120, +15 on either ring or brac)
075 chiv (i would buff this to 90)

It is arguable if u need resisting spells or not. I really like having resist on my chars, this u can however swap for necro.

 

[CorwinXX]

Because I am one handed, I suppose I could get some pots. So far, I have been using Cleanse by Fire to address poison.

Greater Cure has low chance to cure high level poison. And you need 110+ chivalry to get good chance to cure using Cleanse by Fire.
Well, you may have second set of jewels with 30 chivalry + 2/6 casting and switch before casting Cleanse by Fire (and +50 EP if you haven't EP on your main jewels so switch before using Greater Str/Dex).

I suggest you move 20 points from bushido (80) to chivalry (90). 80 bushido is enough for Perfection and to get 200 points for mana cost reduction. With 90 chivalry you can bust it up to 120 to cure.
As to focus you can replace it with resisting spells or healing. You also can try ninjitsu (to get 300 points for mana reduction) or spirit speak (to use Wither on spawns and wraith form against some bosses).

 

[Lord GOD(GOD)]

If i were to make a thrower for fel spawns, and had a team.
I think i would make a "classic" thrower, with skills something like this.

120 throw (real)
120 tact (real)
100 ana
100 heal
100 ninja
105 resist (i would buff this to 120, +15 on either ring or brac)
075 chiv (i would buff this to 90)

It is arguable if u need resisting spells or not. I really like having resist on my chars, this u can however swap for necro.

Often overlooked but you can actually solo all the champs with this quite easily. Even Meph for example with Mirror Images. Having the Healing/Resist on there means you can hold your own in PvP too.

 

[CorwinXX]

Even Meph

Meph is easy. I use a Bladed Staff without HLL against it. Bushido Confidence is enough to heal.

 

[Kayne.]

I recently returned to UO and I am looking at making a thrower
Kind of a fun idea a friend and I had -

Sampire thrower, bit of a tight template for use in PvM and able to survive a little bit if raided at a spawn or something. I know GM resist doesn't compare to 120 with PKs but it's something at least. Able to rez with bandies and dish out decent damage. I don't really believe in chiv ever being super high.

120 Throwing
100 resist
90 tact (with +10 to GM)
100 bushido
100 necro
100 anat
60 chiv
50 healing(+30 on jewelry)

 

[Merlin]

I recently returned to UO and I am looking at making a thrower
Kind of a fun idea a friend and I had -

Sampire thrower, bit of a tight template for use in PvM and able to survive a little bit if raided at a spawn or something. I know GM resist doesn't compare to 120 with PKs but it's something at least. Able to rez with bandies and dish out decent damage. I don't really believe in chiv ever being super high.

120 Throwing
100 resist
90 tact (with +10 to GM)
100 bushido
100 necro
100 anat
60 chiv
50 healing(+30 on jewelry)

Granted, I'm still working on my template too... but you seem to have ALOT of ways to heal yourself: Life Leach from Vamp Form from Necro, Bushido Confidence, Close Wounds from Chiv and using Healing bandages. What are you primarily using?

 

[Max Blackoak]

I recently returned to UO and I am looking at making a thrower
Kind of a fun idea a friend and I had -

Sampire thrower, bit of a tight template for use in PvM and able to survive a little bit if raided at a spawn or something. I know GM resist doesn't compare to 120 with PKs but it's something at least. Able to rez with bandies and dish out decent damage. I don't really believe in chiv ever being super high.

120 Throwing
100 resist
90 tact (with +10 to GM)
100 bushido
100 necro
100 anat
60 chiv
50 healing(+30 on jewelry)

I always assumed healing and anatomy had to be 80 realskill to be able to res...maybe I am wrong.

Why not go for this:
120 Throwing
120 resist
120 bushido
100 tact
100 ana
100 necro
60 chiv (with +skill on jewels allows you to cast noble sacrifice to res)

better damage output and increased survivability...

 

[Merlin]

So after originally creating this toon and this thread, I got busy on other side projects, notably suiting up all of my other toons. So my thrower got neglected for a while. I am back to focusing on the template (and suit) again before I focus on any other new templates. Here is an update:

The following are the skills I've currently set myself up with...
120 Throwing
120 Tactics
120 Anatomy
090 Healing
090 Chivalry
100 Necromancy
080 Bushido


Some thoughts on my current skills:
I probably have TOO many ways to heal. Between life leach from Necro, bandages from Healing, Close Wounds from Chivalry, Confidence from Bushido. I was contemplating dropping Necro or Healing. What it comes down to is that I need to play the template more to figure out what works best for my personal game mechanics. I also don't know exactly what I would replace it with. Maybe Resist Spells, maybe Med/Focus for Mana/Stam regen. Maybe Spirit Speak if I wanted to go the 'Whammy' route. I also find that I'm not using Bushido too terribly much. Maybe I need to do some more Peerless bosses so I can make use of Honor.

I'm currently using Throwing mastery. I think this is actually one of the better masteries, as I use the two specials quite a bit and find them effective. However, I wouldn't mind getting the +15 mana bonus from eating a level 3 Chiv or boosting Bushido up to 90 (should I decide to use it more).

I'm also looking to get suited up. Looking to buy some stone pieces with high stam and LMC. See trader's hall thread here: Buying Armor - Buying thrower armor (stone, stam, LMC)

 

[Lord GOD(GOD)]

So after originally creating this toon and this thread, I got busy on other side projects, notably suiting up all of my other toons. So my thrower got neglected for a while. I am back to focusing on the template (and suit) again before I focus on any other new templates. Here is an update:

The following are the skills I've currently set myself up with...
120 Throwing
120 Tactics
120 Anatomy
090 Healing
090 Chivalry
100 Necromancy
080 Bushido


Some thoughts on my current skills:
I probably have TOO many ways to heal. Between life leach from Necro, bandages from Healing, Close Wounds from Chivalry, Confidence from Bushido. I was contemplating dropping Necro or Healing. What it comes down to is that I need to play the template more to figure out what works best for my personal game mechanics. I also don't know exactly what I would replace it with. Maybe Resist Spells, maybe Med/Focus for Mana/Stam regen. Maybe Spirit Speak if I wanted to go the 'Whammy' route. I also find that I'm not using Bushido too terribly much. Maybe I need to do some more Peerless bosses so I can make use of Honor.

I'm currently using Throwing mastery. I think this is actually one of the better masteries, as I use the two specials quite a bit and find them effective. However, I wouldn't mind getting the +15 mana bonus from eating a level 3 Chiv or boosting Bushido up to 90 (should I decide to use it more).

I'm also looking to get suited up. Looking to buy some stone pieces with high stam and LMC. See trader's hall thread here: Buying Armor - Buying thrower armor (stone, stam, LMC)

Don't forget if you're building the suit, that the Gargish Amulet is jewellery, and although you can enhance it (and waste tool charges) it won't gain any resists.

Having the Throwing mastery is probably the best option. It also makes you harder to disarm.

I would stone out Healing for SS, and adjust Chivalry down and Bushido up.

Med/Focus are not needed.

Use Momentum Strike with Hit Area and slayers, in combination with Attack Next you can quite often clear 2 areas of a screen.

 

[CorwinXX]

The following are the skills I've currently set myself up with...
120 Throwing
120 Tactics
120 Anatomy
090 Healing
090 Chivalry
100 Necromancy
080 Bushido

Looks nice for me. I wouldn't change anything.
Try to get 220 stamina suit.

 

[CorwinXX]

Reforge Soul Glaves for 48 HML 30 SSI

 

[Smoot]

Keep in mind you need 300 combat points for lowest mana use. it doesnt really matter if you use the skills or not. you can get away with 200, but youll definitely notice the difference. if using only 200 using wraith form or overcap mana leech glaives might be good.

Special Moves - UOGuide, the Ultima Online Encyclopedia

 

[CorwinXX]

200 is enough if you have 48 HML. (but It's a good idea to get few stone armor pieces)

 

[Merlin]

Keep in mind you need 300 combat points for lowest mana use. it doesnt really matter if you use the skills or not. you can get away with 200, but youll definitely notice the difference. if using only 200 using wraith form or overcap mana leech glaives might be good.

Special Moves - UOGuide, the Ultima Online Encyclopedia

200 is enough if you have 48 HML. (but It's a good idea to get few stone armor pieces)

Thanks gentlemen.

I would love to be able to get to 300, but based on the available skills to use with this, I would have to materially alter the skill template I currently have just to add in 100 points of a skill I may or may not use much. I will probably end up with 200 combat points, take the advice on getting some overcapped mana leach weapons, and am currently in the market for good stone pieces as noted here: Buying Armor - Buying thrower armor (stone, stam, LMC)

 

[chester rockwell]

This character isn't build for PVP, so I hadn't kept being raided in mind. However, I've also noticed raids happening a lot less frequently as of late and my guild usually roles in groups of 5 or more, so my strategy would be to run and hope the raiders get someone else. Haha.

How would you suggest I make changes?

Pro-tip: I will try to AI a guildmate a few times when the raiders show up. It makes it easier to get away if they have someone else already low in health.

 

[Merlin]

Pro-tip: I will try to AI a guildmate a few times when the raiders show up. It makes it easier to get away if they have someone else already low in health.

Ha. I probably won't be knocking down any guild mates in the process of escaping a raid. But good to know if I'm with a bunch of blues I'm not a fan of.

 

[Merlin]

After some further discussion with players and guild mates, and purchase of a new suit, my proposed final template will look like the following:

120 Throwing
120 Tactics
120 Chivalry
105 Anatomy (120 with Jewels)
095 Resist Spells
090 Bushido
070 Healing

I will have natural 183 Stamina on the suit, (211 when potted up, and up to 221 if I also use the new Eodon pot on top of dex pot). 136 HP and 113 mana before pots. 55 LMC. Max HCI, DCI. Only short fall in the template / suit is low regens.

I took Necro off of this template, as I will have Close Wounds, Bandies, Heal pots and will probably make a life leach glaive. Moved some other skill points around so I can get up to 120 Chiv. Was able to reduce Anat a bit with a high end jewel I purchased. I basically just threw the remaining 95 points into resist spells.

Another reason for the change was due to not wanting to double up on any existing templates I have... as I already of a wraith archer and two sampires that have necro on the template. After testing a bit, I am also skeptical about how useful vamp form really is with a ranged weapon. It just doesn't work the same as with a melee fighter and I felt it was a waste of skill points when I already had so many other ways to heal and stay alive.

I anticipate, after changing this template around quite a bit over the last year, this will be very close to where I settle. The only skills I have left to work up are Chivalry (currently at 99, working to 120) and Tactics (currently at 110 because I was previously relying on the Soldier's Medal to get to 120). It seems to be very effective for peerless bosses and spawns, and is capable of putting up a fight in case of a raid.

If there are any further changes, I will be sure to post. Thanks again to everyone for advice thus far!

 

[Lord Frodo]

After some further discussion with players and guild mates, and purchase of a new suit, my proposed final template will look like the following:

120 Throwing
120 Tactics
120 Chivalry
105 Anatomy (120 with Jewels)
095 Resist Spells
090 Bushido
070 Healing

I will have natural 183 Stamina on the suit, (211 when potted up, and up to 221 if I also use the new Eodon pot on top of dex pot). 136 HP and 113 mana before pots. 55 LMC. Max HCI, DCI. Only short fall in the template / suit is low regens.

I took Necro off of this template, as I will have Close Wounds, Bandies, Heal pots and will probably make a life leach glaive. Moved some other skill points around so I can get up to 120 Chiv. Was able to reduce Anat a bit with a high end jewel I purchased. I basically just threw the remaining 95 points into resist spells.

Another reason for the change was due to not wanting to double up on any existing templates I have... as I already of a wraith archer and two sampires that have necro on the template. After testing a bit, I am also skeptical about how useful vamp form really is with a ranged weapon. It just doesn't work the same as with a melee fighter and I felt it was a waste of skill points when I already had so many other ways to heal and stay alive.

I anticipate, after changing this template around quite a bit over the last year, this will be very close to where I settle. The only skills I have left to work up are Chivalry (currently at 99, working to 120) and Tactics (currently at 110 because I was previously relying on the Soldier's Medal to get to 120). It seems to be very effective for peerless bosses and spawns, and is capable of putting up a fight in case of a raid.

If there are any further changes, I will be sure to post. Thanks again to everyone for advice thus far!

please

 

[Merlin]

please

I will try to get something up around Christmas break. I've been meaning to do that for both this suit and one of my epic sampire suits. I'm wondering if my templates are going to be blown up by changes in the passive masteries.

 

[Lord Frodo]

I will try to get something up around Christmas break. I've been meaning to do that for both this suit and one of my epic sampire suits. I'm wondering if my templates are going to be blown up by changes in the passive masteries.

TY could you include your stats also I have been meaning to make a thrower and so far you build and posts have been very simple to follow.

 

[Merlin]

TY could you include your stats also I have been meaning to make a thrower and so far you build and posts have been very simple to follow.

When I get around to it, I will include pics of everything I feel is useful - suit pieces, stat bars, etc.

Hit me up if you need any advice... I changed this template around quite a lot due to testing, so maybe I've already gone through some of the questions you may come across.

The last area of focus will be revamping all of my glaives.

 

[Lord Frodo]

When I get around to it, I will include pics of everything I feel is useful - suit pieces, stat bars, etc.

Hit me up if you need any advice... I changed this template around quite a lot due to testing, so maybe I've already gone through some of the questions you may come across.

The last area of focus will be revamping all of my glaives.

I have old skool warriors with all but the Bush skill so I will need to read up on it and see what quick keys I will need to make. Which masteries are you going to run?

 

[Merlin]

I have old skool warriors with all but the Bush skill so I will need to read up on it and see what quick keys I will need to make. Which masteries are you going to run?

The two specials on the throwing mastery are actually pretty good compared to a lot of the other Melee-weapon skill masteries and archery mastery abilities. I use them frequently.

Especially if they are going to potentially change the passive ability to +15 HP, 5% DCI, 5% HCI... that makes it a game changer. Waiting to see what it looks like after test center results are determined.

For Bushido, on a ranged too, Confidence, Lightning Strike are probably the ones I use the most. Obviously using Honor is a big help as well, although that's not a particular "bushido spell".

 

[Lord GOD(GOD)]

After some further discussion with players and guild mates, and purchase of a new suit, my proposed final template will look like the following:

120 Throwing
120 Tactics
120 Chivalry
105 Anatomy (120 with Jewels)
095 Resist Spells
090 Bushido
070 Healing

Looks pretty solid to me, shouldn't have any problems anywhere, and I'd say you capped the important stuff for high damage.

Only thing I'd probably change if it were me, as a matter of personal preference, is I don't like having less than 80 Healing. But depends how much you even use it if you're going HLL too. I think I tried 65 with the spare points on my dragoon and found it failed enough to bother me.

Definitely more Fel-able too.

 

[Slayvite]

Now that we only need 60 in Tactics, where would you put the other 60 points?

And how are you finding it without the Necro adds?

 

[Merlin]

Keep tactics the same for the damage, IMHO.

Not much of a loss to give up the necro. If you look at my template on post #31 - between healing, close wounds from chivalry, confidence from bushido and life leach on a weapon... you're going to have enough way to stay alive. Plus, you have a free hand to consume pots, so if you have EP on your suit, that's another option. I found the points better used elsewhere than just to have 100 point stuck in Necro only to use Vamp form. (I have a wraith archer on another account, so I wasn't interested in keeping it to go into wraith form for this toon as well, but that's about the only loss to giving it up.)

 

[Merlin]

I figured I would update this thread with what my two Throwers look like now:

ABC Thrower:
120 Throwing
120 Tactics
105 Anatomy (120 with Bracelet)
100 Chivalry
115 Resist Spells
090 Bushido
070 Healing

I have all Stone suit to get to 55 LMC and use potions to get to 150 Strength and 213 Stamina. Tons of different glaives on hand and full set of Cameos. This character is great for large amount of various PVM encounters, spawning and even some defensive PVP. Lots of different ways to heal (Confidence, Close Wounds, Bandages, Heal Potions), so it's pretty durable build. I had Necro on it at one point to use Vamp form, but wasn't finding it to be worth while. I have a few Glaives with Life Leach as well if I find myself in a tough spot.

Mystic Thrower:
120 Throwing
120 Tactics
120 Mysticism
120 Focus
120 Anatomy
120 Chivalry

Just straight 6x120 build on this one. I had healing on him at one point, but between Close Wounds, Cleansing Winds, Heal Pots and Life Leach on some weapons, Healing was just overkill and not best use of points. I have natural 211 Stamina but use Pots to get to 150 Strength. All glaives have Spellchanneling so I can keep casting as necessary. I use Enchant weapon frequently to add an ability and will generally cast an RC and fight behind it. It's a fun build to play and I've mainly used it for PVM settings only at this point. It can help tank and do good amount of damage, while also acting as a utility and support character with some of the Mysticism spells. All Stone suit for 55 LMC, it was a bit of an expensive build to hit all of the stats needed. Generally using EOO instead of relying on Slayer weapons/Cameos. It's not a top tier PVM build, but it's a fun one to play.

 

[Garm The Green]

Hey @Merlin

Firstly, having returned after ~7 year break, I've read a lot of your posts! They're clear, well constructed, detailed and informative; thanks!

I currently have an ABC archer I'm considering rebuilding as I found Archery to be god-awful on clockwork exodus and fairly slow on spawns compared to my Sampire main.
I, like you have been considering hybrid builds - sampire throwers, ABC throwers, melee casters etc.
In the main I'd been considering going the "whammie" route to resolve the seemingly pathetic leeching from archery to allow chain AI like on my Sampire.
However, reading this thread has brought me full circle as I worry about karma issues, regs/LRC, and the temptation to try and cram in more skillpoints to allow whither/animate etc.
My experience over the years tells me that it's better to have 3 skills at 120 then 4 at 90...

I like your 'plate because it has some RS to allow for Fell survivability

I guess I'm trying to work out if I should leave my ABC as is and accept it's limitations, change to a whammie archer or whether there is any reason to switch out Archery to Throwing?
Please can you help with some queries around any benefits your thrower enjoys over an archer:

- Leeches - Archery felt poor to me, does throwing suffer from the same leech nerfs; that is they leech half compared to melee?)
- DPS - Since all weapons have now been normalised, is there any benefit to throwing? Both Comp and SG are @ 4s so Stam/Dex requirement is the same.
- The 'sweet spot' - Is this now irrelevant if at 150 dex/str? ie: you can stand anywhere without penalty.
- Weapons - Choices for Archers are limited to Comps/Yumis for many tasks. Do you find using only a SG limiting or liberating?
- AoE damage - With champ spawns in mind is there any benefit to using a thrower over a melee sampire or ABC?
- Why this plate - Where does this template work best and why would you ever use this over a whammie archer (thinking chain AI for single target DPS and whither for AoE)
- Why Bushido - What really is the benefit of bushido here - simply Honour, Momentum Strike and Confidence? Do you depend on these to validate the cost (like Vamp.Embrace was discarded as not required on ranged character)
- GAAAAARGHHHH(oyles) - I'm a bit scared about being a garg - no swampy, losing 20 mana from Elven trait. What is your experience?

Thanks a million,
Garm (Europa)

Current ABC skill allocation pre adjustment:

Fenriz	Real	Bonus	Total
Arch	100	20	120
Bushi	120		120
Tact	110	10	120
Anat	110		110
Resist	100		100
Chiv	90		90
Heal	90		90
Totals	720	30	750

 

[Merlin]

Hey @Merlin

Firstly, having returned after ~7 year break, I've read a lot of your posts! They're clear, well constructed, detailed and informative; thanks!

I currently have an ABC archer I'm considering rebuilding as I found Archery to be god-awful on clockwork exodus and fairly slow on spawns compared to my Sampire main.
I, like you have been considering hybrid builds - sampire throwers, ABC throwers, melee casters etc.
In the main I'd been considering going the "whammie" route to resolve the seemingly pathetic leeching from archery to allow chain AI like on my Sampire.
However, reading this thread has brought me full circle as I worry about karma issues, regs/LRC, and the temptation to try and cram in more skillpoints to allow whither/animate etc.
My experience over the years tells me that it's better to have 3 skills at 120 then 4 at 90...

I like your 'plate because it has some RS to allow for Fell survivability

I guess I'm trying to work out if I should leave my ABC as is and accept it's limitations, change to a whammie archer or whether there is any reason to switch out Archery to Throwing?
Please can you help with some queries around any benefits your thrower enjoys over an archer:

- Leeches - Archery felt poor to me, does throwing suffer from the same leech nerfs; that is they leech half compared to melee?)
- DPS - Since all weapons have now been normalised, is there any benefit to throwing? Both Comp and SG are @ 4s so Stam/Dex requirement is the same.
- The 'sweet spot' - Is this now irrelevant if at 150 dex/str? ie: you can stand anywhere without penalty.
- Weapons - Choices for Archers are limited to Comps/Yumis for many tasks. Do you find using only a SG limiting or liberating?
- AoE damage - With champ spawns in mind is there any benefit to using a thrower over a melee sampire or ABC?
- Why this plate - Where does this template work best and why would you ever use this over a whammie archer (thinking chain AI for single target DPS and whither for AoE)
- Why Bushido - What really is the benefit of bushido here - simply Honour, Momentum Strike and Confidence? Do you depend on these to validate the cost (like Vamp.Embrace was discarded as not required on ranged character)
- GAAAAARGHHHH(oyles) - I'm a bit scared about being a garg - no swampy, losing 20 mana from Elven trait. What is your experience?

Thanks a million,
Garm (Europa)

Current ABC skill allocation pre adjustment:

Fenriz	Real	Bonus	Total
Arch	100	20	120
Bushi	120		120
Tact	110	10	120
Anat	110		110
Resist	100		100
Chiv	90		90
Heal	90		90
Totals	720	30	750

Welcome back! Thanks for the kind words about my posts. I am happy to answer any questions you might have about any builds.

Here are some responses to your queries:

Leeches for Archery and Thrower are weaker than from Melee fighting. See the charts on this page: Hit Mana Leech - UOGuide, the Ultima Online Encyclopedia

Might be a small benefit, but no need to have to refill quivers and have arrows with Throwing. Also, since you’re a Garg, no need for mounts. The big benefit is that the Soul Glaive is a one-handed weapon so that you can chug pots without needing to waste a mod to have “Balanced” on your comp bows. If you’re going to be spawning or engaging in some PVP, that’s a pretty significant benefit. Also, while Glaives and Comp Bows get the most attention, for PVM purposes you can still have plenty of fun trying out other weapon types.

As far as “Sampire versus Thrower”, that’s all going to be a matter of preference. For the purpose of champ spawns, you will should be able to knock down them down quicker with a traditional Melee sampire. The other side of that coin is that a Thrower has a bit better mobility and likely will be more effective in fighting off a potential raid. The Thrower can also fight ranged, and that’s helpful in T2A where some of the spawn have mobs that end up on the ledges and are difficult to get to. Either build can be used successfully if played right.

Why this template? Because I enjoy character building. Have about 20 fully maxxed out characters at the moment. Sure, my Sampire and Mage Tamer are probably the strongest I have for PVM, but I like variety and to mix it up a bit. For some reason, I wasn’t enjoying my ABC Archer much, so I eventually turned him into a Stealth Archer and stuck with it. For the ABC thrower I mentioned in the above post, I originally had him as a “Vampire Thrower” but wasn’t finding it to be very effective, and oddly enough, enjoyed the ABC build much more. The good thing about the ABC build is that it is well rounded and can participate at a high level in most any content in the game.

For Bushido, on a ranged too, Confidence, Lightning Strike are probably the ones I use the most. Obviously using Honor is a big help as well. The Bushido skill points also contribute to the Lower Mana Cost bonus for Special Moves. Special Moves - UOGuide, the Ultima Online Encyclopedia

Gargoyles can be challenging. It’s definitely the race that needs some love here. You effectively have one less gear spot. There are some limitations on what artifacts you can use. I’m not sure if the Flying and Berserk racial abilities really outweigh what you lose by not being a Human or Elf. I wish I had more encouraging words here, but if you’re newly returned to UO and learning the ropes again, you might want to stick with your Archer for a bit before trying a Thrower.

Hope that answered most of your questions. Let me know if you have anything else. Good luck!

 

[Momboman]

Hello,

Thanks for this post, it has been a big help to a pseudo-new player.

I usually like fighting behind a pet, so I took to your Mystic Thrower Template and enjoy fighting behind my RC, and loved that the Thrower did not need ammo.

I guess my biggest questions so far are:
1) What should my base stats be? Because I see your stat caps from the 'Plate, but I'm unsure how to distribute my base numbers.
2) What should my stats be at after bonuses from gear?
3) Which are the best potions or food to use to cap your stats?
4) I left Bushido in for now, and use Lightning Strike often, are these points better spent elsewhere?
5) Should I lock Karma?

My Current Base Stats are at:
STR 113
DEX 96 ( 100 with current gear )
INT 16 ( 34 with current gear )
STAM 100
LMC 46 ( wearing 3 pieces of stone, looking for 4th - legs )
LRC 100
HCI 42
WDI 80
Luck 269

My Current Skills are at:
Anatomy 100 (120 planned)
Tactics 100 (120 planned)
Throwing 107/120
Imbuing 106/120 (Using this instead of Focus)
Mystic 102/110 (120 planned)
Bushido 90 (Any Benefit from taking this higher?)
Chivalry 70 (Any Benefit from taking this higher?)
Magery 45 (Declining to 0)
-
Dumped Spirit Speak
Dumped Healing
Dumped Resist Spells
-

Thanks for all the help,
Kerblam (LS) - Mystic Thrower
Momboman (LS) - Sampire

 

[Merlin]

Hi,

I am glad to hear that my post has helped you out. Here are a few responses to you:

1) For base stats, I usually back into those once I have picked out my suit and jewels.
2) For most throwers (or any melee fighters for that matter), you want either 180 stamina or 210 stamina. Getting to 210 is alot easier than it used to be, but it's still a tough ask. A little easier to do with potions so that you can still have a good spread with stats. For a Mystic Thrower, I think 180 is sufficient to still be very viable.

Similarly, you want your Strength to be as close to 150 max as possible so that you can do more damage and have more hit points. Again, it's a bit easier with potions and Trinsic rose petals, but the other side of the coin is that then you have to have a balanced weapon and carry potions around, which can be looted by either monsters or PVPers.

Whatever is left over, I put into Intelligence/Mana. For a Mystic Thrower, you don't want this to be too low, but that's going to depend entirely on how much casting you're doing.

One thing you have to decide with a Mystic Thrower is are you going to be more of a thrower or more of a caster. It's tough to be very strong in both. In my opinion, leaning more toward the throwing skill is the way to go. My play style is to throw up an RC and let it tank while I fight from a ranged distance behind it. That's why in my build I have Strength, Tactics, Anatomy and Chivalry all maxxed out so that I can do as much damage as possible. I try to use double slayers on my weapons and talismans as well. I also always keep Enchant Weapon active so that whatever I am using will be hitting with an additional mod

3) Strength pots, Dex pots, Trinsic petals. If you're using this template in alot of different situations and not running Resist Spells, might want to have Enchanted apples as well.

4) In my opinion, yes, those points can better be spent elsewhere. However, this depends on your play style. My suggestion is keep on testing it out and see if you use Bushido enough to justify the 90 points. If not, stone it off and try something else.

I have two throwers, one of them has bushido and the other doesn't. For the Mystic Thrower build, this is a very specialized character for me. I have about two dozen fully completed characters, so it's not an issue for me to have a couple of specialized ones that are built for certain types of encounters. My Mystic Thrower is tight on skill points, so I opted not to include it on my build.

Looking at your skills, I would dump Imbuing for Focus. The passive Stamina and Mana regeneration properties of Focus make it a better choice. It's also probably the easiest skill to raise up to 120.

Personally, I find Chivalry to be very useful on my Mystic Thrower because I do not carry a full set of Cameos on this particular character (although I trade them back and for sometimes with my other characters, as needed). I noted you have this only at 70... consider that at 80, you get 100% success chance with Consecrate Weapon, which I find to be the Chiv spell I cast the most. Perhaps give consideration to raising this up.

Overall, sounds like you're doing well with the build. Keep me posted as you progress along and let me know if any other questions. Good luck!

 

[Keven2002]

Hopefully I can add an alternative take on this template, given that I used some of what @Merlin used above and also took some advice from others.

First disclaimer here, as with many other template suggestions, it all depends on your play style and what you are fighting. I think a thrower (followed by an archer) are templates where you most likely will need to sacrifice somewhere. IMO playing a thrower is tougher than a Sampire because they aren't tanks that can go run into a crowd and spam WW.

Second disclaimer is that my template is heavily suit/jewelry based. I swap jewelry to bump skills and they are antique so if you do the same just make sure you repair them frequently (ie you can't go a few days without repairs).

I went with more of a Wammie style template. So in place of healing I have 100 spirit speak (I will bump this to 120 if I need lots of leech life from curse weapon) and 60 bushido (mainly so that I can get the 300 skill mana reduction).

My suit is all stone so I get 55 lmc and I have 100 DI on the suit which is important because it is 1 extra mod I can free up on my glaive.

Skills are:

120 throwing
120 tactics
105 anatomy (jewel takes me to 120)
120 chiv
60 bushido (jewel takes me to 80)
75 resist (jewel takes me to 90)
100 spirit speak (jewel takes me to 120 if needed)
20 necro - this is just to keep wraith form (jewels take me to 60 for no fizzle casting of wraith form)

I'm able to heal many different ways in addition to whatever I leech with my glaive that usually has leech life; I can use potions/spirit speak/chivalry/curse weapon/confidence.

I did see someone mention that they were afraid of karma loss above and I wouldn't worry too much about it if you are routinely killing high end stuff like balrons/dragons/champs/etc. The amount of karma lost when casting wraith form or curse weapon is minor in the grand scheme (don't be scared just because it says "you have lost a lot of karma"). Especially if you are going to do some Exodus runs; you get 10k karma from using those keys.

I've found that this template is extremely heavy on damage output (especially if you get honor in) and your mana pool is almost endless depending on what you fight. That said, the trade off here and the one down side to being in wraith form is that you are on foot while in that form and makes you more vulnerable in places like the roof/exodus where the bosses move fast; which is probably the worst part of the template for me. But that's the trade off.

I will say that you do not always need to be in wraith form; you can still chain AI's if you are at the 300% damage cap to whatever you are hitting but it won't be as many compared to wraith form.

 

[Baal-Draco. *D*]

Hello masters

I read this thread like 3 times, but as many posts are a bit dated I thought I'd rather ask again for your insight.

I'd like to build a thrower. Mainly to solo (or duo) champs.

Which build of the ones here would be the best? The less skills the better.
Which mastery should I run with it?

Thank you very much!

 

[T_Jones]

Garg gears are rare even in Atlantic. Now my toon is in Catskills.

Any gear recommendations? Please.

I've got this from a player vendor though.

 

[Anon McDougle]

Garg gears are rare even in Atlantic. Now my toon is in Catskills.

Any gear recommendations? Please.

I've got this from a player vendor though.

View attachment 141988

You want crafted slayer glavines if you're a pally and use CW don't worry about damage type a good non crafted all purpose is glavine infinite swarm

 

[T_Jones]

You want crafted slayer glavines if you're a pally and use CW don't worry about damage type a good non crafted all purpose is glavine infinite swarm

Thanks. It's 10 mil. in Catskills, supposed to be 6 mil. in Atlantic. What a difference.