Throwing + Parrying

[Raco]

Hello,

Im doing a research about the interaction on throwing and parrying. Uoguide says using a shield cause you a penality but this could be offset by using parrying. So anyone knows whats the penality with 100 parrying, 110 parrying, 115 parrying and 120 parrying ?

 

[gwen]

With my120 PS, 95 real parry, 15 from jewel and 10 from Grugor Shield , penalty is severe. 1/2 or 2/3 of throws are missing.

 

[Pawain]

With my120 PS, 95 real parry, 15 from jewel and 10 from Grugor Shield , penalty is severe. 1/2 or 2/3 of throws are missing.

Why use a shield? Shouldn't a thrower be a distance fighter?

 

[Raco]

Why use a shield? Shouldn't a thrower be a distance fighter?

No. this post is not to discuss to use shield or not. it was made to understand the hit chance formula

 

[gwen]

Why use a shield? Shouldn't a thrower be a distance fighter?

Because shield can give you mods :stats, SSI, DI and regens.
Also because on ATL I am glad if can outrun normal mob. Not paragons. This is how good is my ping, lol. I was using parry thrower to stay alive during wildfire.

 

[Raco]

Anyone care to help ? I still have no answer on this

 

[Draza]

It was so severe that at 120 throw, 0 parry, they had to add a minimum hit chance(5% i think). Best way to test, is to attack something with the same skill level as yours(120 both is supposed to be 50% chance to hit).

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So get to the point where you are hitting 100% of the time, then toss on a shield and see how often you miss.

I believe gm parry now negates this penalty completly.

 

[Cork]

I run 120 real parry skill and a shield on my thrower. Seems to be fine as long as you have real 120 parry. I can't find any information on a calculator though.

 

[Anon McDougle]

Having parry does indeed work gargoyles are so discriminated against with range penalties

 

[Draza]

As far as i know, the overthrow/underthrow penalties are gone now.

You want like 125 str for max range, and 150 str for max damage

 

[Anon McDougle]

As far as i know, the overthrow/underthrow penalties are gone now.

You want like 125 str for max range, and 150 str for max damage

Good to know!!

 

[Stinky Pete]

Try this formula. I can't really say where I got it or if it is 100% accurate, but go ahead and test it if you have to, it's quite complicated:

chance = chance without penalty

penalty = 90 or (1200 / (Parry skill or 1, whichever is greater)) Whichever is lower

final result = chance - (chance * (penalty / 100))

120 Parry with 50% regular chance to hit = 45% chance to hit
100 Parry with 50% regular chance to hit = 44% chance to hit
50 Parry with 50% regular chance to hit = 38% chance to hit
<13.4 Parry with 50% regular chance to hit = 5% chance to hit

 

[skett]

If that’s correct then parry needs fixed
Which most /some of us have been saying for years and gave up asking as usual

 

[Stinky Pete]

If that’s correct then parry needs fixed
Which most /some of us have been saying for years and gave up asking as usual

Why? It does It's job. It makes it impractical to use a shield with throwing unless you have high parry. Exactly the intent. Complex as it may be, it is quite brilliant really.

 

[Raco]

This formula doesnt seem quite right or its missing part. During the spawn I didnt notice much diference having a shield with parry but as the spawn continues and the level raises I started to note a good diference and on the final boss it was visible with shield I started missing alot so I removed it and started doing damange again. My guess is that the hit chance incrase mod has some weird interaction with this formula

 

[Stinky Pete]

This formula doesnt seem quite right or its missing part. During the spawn I didnt notice much diference having a shield with parry but as the spawn continues and the level raises I started to note a good diference and on the final boss it was visible with shield I started missing alot so I removed it and started doing damange again. My guess is that the hit chance incrase mod has some weird interaction with this formula

Could be wrong, like I said, but one thing to note is that this formula comes in after HCI and everything else takes place, so it makes sense that as the enemies get more difficult to hit, the effects of the formula become more noticeable.

 

[Nero]

Just go to test center and hit something 10 times at each skill level. I would be interested in the results too.

 

[Stinky Pete]

Just go to test center and hit something 10 times at each skill level. I would be interested in the results too.

You'd really need to know the stats of what you are attacking. Best to use another player as a target. This formula is different in that it is not applied as a percentage, therefore if you have less than 13.4 parry and you have 45% chance to hit, your chance to hit is 0%. That is why you see the huge reduction in hit chance when spawn gets tougher per @Raco's testing.

 

[skett]

Why? It does It's job. It makes it impractical to use a shield with throwing unless you have high parry. Exactly the intent. Complex as it may be, it is quite brilliant really.

What seems off is the % at 120 it seems 55% and 50% would be more in line

 

[Stinky Pete]

What seems off is the % at 120 it seems 55% and 50% would be more in line

Meh. Players always want to be more powerful. If it was up to the players y'all would be walking around on dog archers one-shotting everything you see and getting the best items in game for doing it. It's been this way for a long time, no real need to change it in my opinion. If I was going to change it, I'd make throwing weapons 2 handed to match archery.

 

[skett]

Lol okay not even close to what I play or wanted in fixing parry

Your guessing and jump to your pre judgmental conclusion is so far off from why I suggested it needed fixed

I’d have to ask did you ever play a true paladin/fighter class after aos better yet pre aos or just a common thief?

Parry was far better back then

Now it’s the same ole sampire /tamer temps- boring imho- (which holds no weight same as does yours) that rules the game these days

I haven’t used my archor in years but ok

Try asking first then start speculating later

Claiming to know others can lead to one looking like a completely arrogant fool.



















Did I make your list yet ?

 

[Stinky Pete]

Lol okay not even close to what I play or wanted in fixing parry

Your guessing and jump to your pre judgmental conclusion is so far off from why I suggested it needed fixed

My apologies, I reread what you said and it does seem that I misunderstood what you were saying originally. I thought you were saying the chance to hit should be higher, but you didn't say that at all.

I’d have to ask did you ever play a true paladin/fighter class after aos better yet pre aos or just a common thief?

Yeah, quite a bit.

Parry was far better back

For sure, but you don't see a lot of melee or PvP templates without it these days. I just don't think it should be usable with throwing weapons. I don't think mages should have it either, but that's just my humble opinion.

Claiming to know others can lead to one looking like a completely arrogant fool.

Everyone knows that I'm the most arrogant of all the fools. I don't hide it.

Did I make your list yet

Not even close, but if I see you, I'll kill you, again.

 

[Laura_Gold]

and then there's the influence of Bushido

 

[Anon McDougle]

and then there's the influence of Bushido

Nerf bushido like ninjutsu

 

[Laura_Gold]

Nerf bushido

Already nerfed:
o with the "lose a swing" bull-omelet that Bleak put in in 2015 that no one was asking for
o changing evasion from "you can't be hit for a short period of time" to "slight increase to parrying, but you have to lose a swing to get it and the effect isn't good enough now to be worth losing a swing over because even a pancakeing orc can hit you when you're supposed to be evading"

 

[Archangel0]

I friggin HATE all these devs!

 

[PlayerSkillFTW]

I’d have to ask did you ever play a true paladin/fighter class after aos better yet pre aos or just a common thief?

Parry was far better back then

Now it’s the same ole sampire /tamer temps- boring imho- (which holds no weight same as does yours) that rules the game these days

The oldschool Macer/Paladin (Chiv isn't even really needed much for this current event) is dominating the "Treasures of " Events. The Paragons from the "Treasures of " Events being immune to Life Leech/Drain, really breathed life back into the oldschool bandage Healing Warriors, while making Sampires cry.

Pre-AoS, all Parry did was increase your AR when you had a Shield equipped, which reduced the damage you took when hit, but didn't reduce your chance to get hit in the first place. Just after AoS, you saw Parry proccing (you can see the proc in CC by the white flash/dot that appears on you when you successfully parry) to block hits more often than now, because you had a higher chance to be hit in the first place, not many people had capped 45% DCI back then. Parry is a secondary skill check, to block a hit that otherwise would've landed on you, so the higher the chance you have of being hit in the first place, the more often you'll see Parry put to work.

o changing evasion from "you can't be hit for a short period of time" to "slight increase to parrying, but you have to lose a swing to get it and the effect isn't good enough now to be worth losing a swing over because even a pancakeing orc can hit you when you're supposed to be evading"

Evasion increases your chance to Parry by 1.5x it's normal value, while also allowing you to parry damage spells/abilities (like E-Bolt/Dragon Breath). With 120 Parry/120 Bushido/80+ DEX, you have a 40% chance to Parry with a 2H Wep. That goes up to 60% chance during Evasion. It's always functioned like that. It just didn't used to have a cooldown, that is until Bokuto Mages got ahold of it and were dominating PvP (Bushido dexxers didn't have the mana regen to sustain it indefinitely back then like Mages could). The devs then put a 20 second cooldown on it, and made the duration dependent upon having Wep Skill+Tactics+Anatomy+Parry+Bushido (which functionally made it useless to Mages). The max duration of Evasion is now 8 seconds, with a 20 second cooldown (which begins once the Evasion effect ends). Evasion is now an "OH ****!" button, rather than a consistent form of damage avoidance.