Three suits dropped since last night.

[Zuckuss]

Hail citizins! On my home shard of catskills, three different players have dropped their entire backpack contents to the ground upon death. Now apparenty some of the items would be on the corpse, and some would be on the tile that the victim was standing on.

This includes all INSURED and BLESSED items inside their backpack. The first time last night, I wrote it off a player fault, but after the next two, both of them involving blessed items, and the seniority of the players, I knew their had to be some type of exploit.

Is this a new thing? The fact that it has happened some many times in a small period of time makes me suspect there is a new issue on our hands. Has anyone else had this happen to them recently?

Note: All three occurances have happened during PvP. Once last night in Yew, the second two, today at a fel idoc.

 

[MalagAste]

Question... when they died was their backpack full? As in 120+ items???? because say you die... and you have already 120 items in your pack.... your armor and all that goes into your pack... and ?? your over 125.... stuff goes.... to the ground. Not cool.

Overweight... if your overweight and you die.... when you die your stuff once again... can't go into your pack because of excess weight... so what happens??? well when you get rezed just like before if you have too many things in your pack..... ah.... it goes in the backpack.... and if there is no room there.... it falls... yes to the ground

Now if your over weight it takes just random items back when you pick up your pack.. sometimes and oftentimes leaving INSURED or BLESSED items on your corpse... so I make it a rule to ALWAYS yes ALWAYS check my corpse carefully.

I know it seems cheap and silly but that's how the game is programed.. randomness.... now if the programers were smart they would have put in a code that says.... pick up items from corpse... hum... first check what is blessed pick that up first.... then check what is insured.... pick that up..... Instead of pick up everything on corpse..... Oops out of room.... well forget the rest ok...

 

[Zuckuss]

Yes yes I already cleared all the questions. There is some type of issue.

 

[GarthGrey]

I thought I read that the ghost body carries it's own backpack for blessed items, so they don't really become part of your corpse pack?

 

[Zuckuss]

In the three cases, all items were lost. The bad guys had the blessed items of the people who died. So if they go into the ghost's backpack, they were able to certianly get them out.

 

[Zuckuss]

Here is a link to a former Dev's blog which talks about some of the forgotten technical aspects of UO.

http://kriegshauser.blogspot.com/2007/03/hackalicious.html


I really believe it's some sort of hack or glitch.

 

[Flutter]

. The bad guys had the blessed items of the people who died.

"The Bad guys" ??? Seriously?
I was there. There was no foul play. It was regular pvp at an IDOC. One of the other reds who was there actually asked me "wow why are all these peoples stuff falling??"

 

[hen]

Did they give any stuff back?

 

[Saint of Killers]

Did they give any stuff back?

If they did, then they did. If they didn't, then they didn't. Makes no difference on the initial problem.

Why would 4 suits drop.?.

 

[Nystul]

\The bad guys

Rofl are you serious?

But yeah, one person who I actually like in the alliance has already contacted me about it.

There is no bug that is exploitable by players to make another players suit drop. If there was, I'm sure I would have already heard about it. Unless it's a deep kept secret that was just discovered that is...

As far as returning items go I won't press it upon my guildies to return anything they loot off another player. The most I'll do is ask if they mind returning it, since we can get more than anything we need & don't need to take others equipment. The majority of my guildiess including myself have had numerous items looted in the past while the opposing guilds flaunted/teased about it. As far as I'm concerned what goes around comes around.

Fortunately for one person who dropped everything, I'm feeling kinda bad & replacing what I can because I don't think they would ever do no wrong to someone else, or participate in anything like that w/ someone else.

 

[MissEcho]

If they did, then they did. If they didn't, then they didn't. Makes no difference on the initial problem.

Why would 4 suits drop.?.

Might make no difference on the initial problem but it would speak volumes for the type of pvp'er who took advantage of it. Especially if as Flutter said, they could see it was a problem. Basically they would be taking advantage of an exploit, be it a game mechanic problem or man made.

Lets see if they have enough integrity as players to offer to give the stuff back.

 

[Nystul]

Show me the blessed item that was dropped. Where's waldo?

 

[Flutter]

I saw two suits drop. I offered the one item I got (an imbued skirt) back to the gm of that alliance/guild.
I know no one was exploiting or running anything bc I know how surprised they were that the items werent insured.

 

[Zuckuss]

When I said "bad guys", perhaps I should have said opponents. Never thought anyone would take exception to that as I didn't name names or guilds.

 

[Arcus]

Here is a link to a former Dev's blog which talks about some of the forgotten technical aspects of UO.

http://kriegshauser.blogspot.com/2007/03/hackalicious.html


I really believe it's some sort of hack or glitch.

I love his blog. Great reading for nerds.

 

[aarons6]

wow, it sounds like someone needs to find a new house that's not in fel?

you get reds at your door, then you call for help??

"help me, there are some reds outside my FEL HOUSE"???

i understand tho about the insurance bug.. its a huge problem.. unfortunately the "programmers" cannot fix this bug, as they ones who wrote the code are long gone

this bug tho also has to do with stables.. one day i tried for about 10 minutes to stable my dragon.. it kept telling me i had NO GOLD.. even tho in my bank was about 10 1m checks and about 800k in gold coins.. also on me i had about 1200 or so gold..

for some reason the stable master couldn't see that i had gold on me...
maybe this is the same bug and the insurance master cant see the gold either..

 

[AtlanteanAngel]

this bug tho also has to do with stables.. one day i tried for about 10 minutes to stable my dragon.. it kept telling me i had NO GOLD.. even tho in my bank was about 10 1m checks and about 800k in gold coins.. also on me i had about 1200 or so gold.. for some reason the stable master couldn't see that i had gold on me... maybe this is the same bug and the insurance master cant see the gold either..

That's good thinking, and indeed might be related. But it wouldn't explain the loss of 'blessed' items though.

 

[Saint of Killers]

So 1 suit in Yew yesterday, and now it's 3 suits at a fel idoc today, and the people that lost the suits at the idoc are not pvp'ers and don't frequent felucca often...

The picture is becoming a little bit clearer.

 

[Nystul]

That's good thinking, and indeed might be related. But it wouldn't explain the loss of 'blessed' items though.

No blessed items were lost.

My guild looted the items, they showed me EVERYTHING.

If they got any runebooks etc. they would have showed me.

There was NOT a single blessed or owned by item. Everything was insurable.

They're LYING about blessed items being looted.

I know for a fact that one of the people they SAW had a few items uninsured. They killed him & got half of his suit. From there they killed him again AFTER and took the rest of the items.

AFTER that the guy was STILL ABLE to use ninjitsu forums. He was an archer.

AFTER everything they said they were going to return items, but they just wanted to kill him again. The dude even ADMITTED he ran out of insurance and had to wait to get more gold before he met up w/ em.

Yeah they may not have been "right" doing what they did. But it's Felucca. Come prepared & leave your feelings in the glovebox.

There is no players exploiting a bug, the only thing being "exploited" is other players own "stupidity".

 

[Flutter]

I was present also at the incident this morning.

I must stress that describing it as regular PvP at an IDOC is an enormous stretch.

What really happened was: a friend of mine called for help because she said there were reds outside her front door, which inconveniently happened to be right behind an IDOC. A few of us who were online came to see the situation and what we might be able to do for her. I stress that most if not all of us are not involved in PvP on our shard and our names are not known in PvP circles. Be that as it may, the reds and their blue helper laid down fields at our friend's door and mass-ganked us.

This might qualify as PvP at an IDOC in some circles. I dunno really. The whole PvP ethos mystifies me.

Then - not to question the integrity of the gentleman who posted pictures of the uninsured items above in this thread, but (1) the items could have been deliberately uninsured after the incident by anyone who handled them and (2) they could have become uninsured by way of some glitch or hack. That they can be shown not to be insured at this time proves nothing.

I know one of the people quite well who lost an entire suit today at this so-called "PVP" incident. While nothing is beyond possibility, she is a seasoned player, knows how to insure, has gold in the bank, and was not overweight at the time, so the loss of her items, coupled with similar incidents last night, really do raise some questions about what's going on.

I hope the Devs are paying attention to this thread. Thanks if you are!

This isn't entirely accurate. Your people continued to come back and attack us after the house fel and for the entire time we were looting it.
Your people died over and over and quite possibly could have run out of insurance. I can't speak for them. I do know that it isn't how you describe.
What happened was someone called me and said hey there is an idoc can you help me there are a lot of TB here.
I came on my SL char. There was a fight over the house. The house fell. More people came. More people attacked. People brought pets. The blues came back multiple times and died over and over.
Someone placed a keep. Some more TB showed up. They died or ran. More blues gathered with pets. They died again.
It's Fel. People pvp here. Anyone could have left the area at any time.

No one was running any sort of illegal programs. The items fell because people probably:
A) Didn't notice the "not enough money to reinsure your items" message.
B) Even after going to put more gold in the bank forgot to turn auto-insure back on
C)People just simply weren't paying attention to their newly imbued suits when they put it on.

This happens. We change out items and forget to insure them. We forget to turn on auto renew. We run out of gold. It happens. We don't go accusing innocent people of foul play.
Seriously. It's happened to the best of us. Fortunately with imbuing losing items these days isn't a big deal anymore. There's nothing that can't be replaced.

 

[T'Challa]

This whole thread is a daily occurrence on Siege *ducks*

 

[Pawain]

It sounds like they ran out of gold.

Do item reinsure if you only have checks in the bank?

 

[Saint of Killers]

The G Collar, Crimmy, Mace n Shields would have sucked losing, especially the G. The rest...ehh. It's all replaceable, and some of the pieces were less than stellar anyway.

Take it as a lesson learned, and I've learned the "oops I forgot to auto-insure my newest pvper that I just suited up with a godly suit from head to toe, and all of my uber bows" lesson the hard way. It hurts like you just got punched in the gut and you weren't ready for it (unless Lynk is doing the punching because all of his pvp chars hit like a girl anyway). At least imbuing is here to make uo life easier, and all the major tokunos are all cheap now.

That and Nystul was "kind" enough to post pictures so you can see what you need to imbue on your pieces!

 

[Zuckuss]

No blessed items were lost.

My guild looted the items, they showed me EVERYTHING.

If they got any runebooks etc. they would have showed me.

There was NOT a single blessed or owned by item. Everything was insurable.

They're LYING about blessed items being looted.

Ohh so both players are lying about the blessed items disappearing? It has happened before (blessed items dropping). Maybe you shouldn't just assume they are lying. Also, how certain are you that "your guys" are being entirley truthful with you?

 

[Gidge]

Please also don't forget that if you move an item from one char to another, you must uninsure and reinsure.

If you die and see things missing, for goodness sakes, don't go back and die more. *shakes her head*

It seems little by little the truth of the incident is revealed.

and for goodness sake, a blue char in a home does not need to be rescued. They just need to recall or use stuck... or....*drumroll* hide and log out.

Have her mark a rune about 2 screens away from her home and have her set a one button recall and then as she approaches her home, hit the button if she has to.

There, i've revealed a secret (common sense tactic) of mine.

Use it ...wisely...

 

[Zuckuss]

Please also don't forget that if you move an item from one char to another, you must uninsure and reinsure.

If you die and see things missing, for goodness sakes, don't go back and die more. *shakes her head*

It seems little by little the truth of the incident is revealed.

and for goodness sake, a blue char in a home does not need to be rescued. They just need to recall or use stuck... or....*drumroll* hide and log out.

Have her mark a rune about 2 screens away from her home and have her set a one button recall and then as she approaches her home, hit the button if she has to.

There, i've revealed a secret (common sense tactic) of mine.

Use it ...wisely...

In the one case, this happened at an idoc, which was difrectly in front of the keep. This happened to people who actually regularly go to fel and do champs. They know about insurance and game mechanics.

The second case happened in Yew, to an actuall pvper who was ganked. All players had gold, none would have been killed enough times to have run out.

 

[Saint of Killers]

Please also don't forget that if you move an item from one char to another, you must uninsure and reinsure.

I swap a lieutenant's sash and mythical boots between a few characters all the time without uninsuring/reinsuring the pieces. I've never had a problem.

 

[Gidge]

LaBelle said.....

I stress that most if not all of us are not involved in PvP on our shard and our names are not known in PvP circles.

regarding insurance....

It happens that way too.

 

[Salya Sin]

We had the same thing happen on Napa awhile back... with a BLESSED crimson cincture... among other things. Perhaps the individuals just didn't show the blessed items they picked up... and how is everyone so sure this isn't an exploit? Perhaps an item in the game... no different than the bugged quivers? If it were a code issue... wouldn't it happen every time someone died in Fel? Why just this particular group... three times? It's not logical... and it's not like anyone would come on here and say.. "Why yes.. I was running this or doing that and got your stuff..."

Oh and I never have to reinsure items... once it's done.. I can pass them around, drop them in crates in my house... trade them off. They stay insured unless I manually remove them or run out of gold (which never happens).

 

[Nystul]

Ohh so both players are lying about the blessed items disappearing? It has happened before (blessed items dropping). Maybe you shouldn't just assume they are lying. Also, how certain are you that "your guys" are being entirley truthful with you?

Because they wouldn't give a **** & either would I if they took blessed items, so why wouldn't they tell me?

Out of all the years I've been pvping, the hundreds of thousands of people I've killed, you would think I woulda killed someone who dropped blessed items if a bug so exists.

I bet they also go out to eat & get declined when they goto use their card IRL because they don't pay attention to something as simple as a balance.

 

[altarego]

Because they wouldn't give a **** & either would I if they took blessed items, so why wouldn't they tell me?

Out of all the years I've been pvping, the hundreds of thousands of people I've killed, you would think I woulda killed someone who dropped blessed items if a bug so exists.

I bet they also go out to eat & get declined when they goto use their card IRL because they don't pay attention to something as simple as a balance.

Let's give you the benefit of the doubt here and say that "hundreds of thousands" is at min 200k and the "all the years" is the max of 12.

Well, that's just shy of 2 players you've killed every hour of every day for 12 years...nonstop.

Outstanding.

 

[legendsguy]

another good reason i stay in trammel. when suits are worth 40-50mil gold you don't take chances.. not with people, not with programming.

 

[Cear Dallben Dragon]

meh, we had something like this on atlantic a while back.
We had two people circle my house. I was going to go out for a party so i sat there and checked my entire suit. all was good to go, insured and what not. wither spam later my entire suit was gone.

 

[hawkeye_pike]

Seriously, we have no prove that there is a hack or exploit of some sort that makes blessed/insured items drop into the corpse. So we should be careful before blaming anybody.

However, has anyone ever experienced that whole suits including blessed items dropped into the corpse in PvM? It happened to me once in my entire UO time that insured earrings were looted by a Shadow Fiend upon my death and dropped (uninsured) to the ground on the Shadow Fiend's death. But whole suits? This is new.

I know that there actually is an exploit where someone can uninsure items on the victim's paperdoll with a certain trick (this can be prevented by changing the game options so the context menu of your character opens only with Shift+Click). So I wouldn't exclude the possibility that this hack has been "improved".

Anyway, let's hope that the developers soon get to the bottom of this and resolve the issue. I may be wearing my simple GM-made armor meanwhile, which makes UO more challenging anyway.

 

[jfkeach]

There is a bug with the system, or an exploit out there. I posted about an AOF that was looted from my corpse, and the other day there was a boomstick. That red ressed me, and told me my boomstick was still on my corpse. And yes, it was insured.

Having worked in software development for 10+ years, I know that programmers make mistakes. When you have code that has been tweaked by as many different people as this game, there are bound to be a lot of mistakes. Programmer B not on same wavelength as Programmer A from 10 years ago, etc.... greatly increases the margin of error.

I dont expect this to change or be investigated. They don't have the resources to do a complete code review. And their priorities are the Enhanced client and whatever.

 

[RavenWinterHawk]

Hey stop the bickering.

Why dont a bunch of you go insure some crappy stuff, bring some stupid blessed cards and kill each other.


See if you can replicate it.

Argh.
Its a game. So see if you found something or not.


BLAH

 

[RavenWinterHawk]

Many are in a position to "test" the situation daily. As far as I know, we have seen this particular issue only recently on Catskills under very limited circumstances. Lots of people invest a lot of time, money, and effort in our game. And anyhow....

How is a game in any way separate from "life?" It is a part of life. *smile*

What you lose in a game does not compare to what can be lost in life. If my life ends the game playing does not go on. If my game playing ends my life goes on.

Anyway test test test it. All people are going to do for the next few hours is spew comments at each other.

Ive lost millions from glitches, stupidity, laziness, and death. Yet I still have lots of stuff.

The sooner it gets replicated the sooner it can be fixed. All guilds to arms and defeat this bug.

 

[The Fallout]

Pvpers whine argue fight and complain more than anyone in Trammel, With that being said, I partake in pvp too.

 

[Sweeney]

another good reason i stay in trammel. when suits are worth 40-50mil gold you don't take chances.. not with people, not with programming.

This is the definition of a Trammy if I've ever heard one.

 

[SDragor]

Flutter, the whole "history" of the disappearance of the armor early yesterday is really immaterial to the central message here. It's just one of several similar incidents and merely serves to explain one setting in which an apparently more widespread problem occurred: looting of allegedly insured suits and allegedly blessed items off a corpse.

No one is pointing fingers and claiming anyone or any guild in particular is responsible for the problem. No one is saying for certain even that there is any human mischief involved.

You and your group were present when the items dropped on the corpse yesterday, that is all. Someone who was with you yesterday, but not a part of your guild, was present at two such incidents. Your simple presence does not prove in any way that you or anyone else had any culpability or responsibility, besides of course actually taking items off the corpse. And that is not unusual or special.

funny though that flutter and her 'people' (i rather call em kids) mostly are around when fishy things do happen . . .
might be coincidence, I know .

 

[Lissa Eldi]

This is probably (ok surely maybe ) the naive trammie in me but, I see on our shard forums some of the pvp guilds have posted that they dont keep items, but instead return them. So, if you are able to loot items that you SEE are insured and its obviously a bug, do you consider returning them? Not asking one particular person, people in general.

Myself I would not cry if I lost things in fel, and I have, nature of the beast...but if its an obvious bug I just wonder if folks return stuff.

 

[Vyal]

Trammies go to a idoc thinking ooo ya loot, being trammies they go uninsured.....

Reds come along and say ooo uninsured suit, I know I check trammies when I see em in fel.

Next thing you know a trammie has their whole blue guild crying about a bug or exploit and wah wah wah I lost my whole suit other people are hacking cry cry cry, post on stratics and cry cry cry.

Honestly whats more trammie then that?

Who hasn't seen this before raise their hand.

 

[RavenWinterHawk]

Some people don't have lots of stuff in this game or millions to lose. I'm happy you do.

Nowhere did I say that this or any other game is somehow the totality of life. That just makes no sense. Life is the apparently forward-moving sequence of outward events and our inner commentary on them. Some we consensually agree are more important, such as family, friends, education, health, and some we consider less important, such as games. Would I prefer to lose a family member or a suit of UO armor? Obvious answer. I'd prefer to lose UO junk. No comparison. However, what you lose in a game IS something you lose "in life." Playing a game does not somehow magically transport you to a void space where "life" no longer exists. Our game is a fragment of the flow of events that make up what we collectively call life.

In fact, "life" is an abstraction, born of our perception of the flow of time. Not to get totally Zen on you, but if you examine consciousness there is only here and only now. This moment. And paradoxically it's a moment you can never capture, because when you look at it - it vanished. Where our general attention is generally focused at any moment, that is "important" to us then or else our attention would be elsewhere. I would be downstairs doing the dishes that are piling up, and you would not be reading this post. So we are all here, together in this moment. Wait. That moment just passed.

Maybe later on today some of us can get together and "test" the result of dying on UO with blessed and insured items. Good idea! Sounds like a plan.

So what is important now?

I'm heading downstairs to do the dishes! Yay.

I wasnt saying what I thought you said. I just answered a question. Just my answer.

But I dont think the bug discriminates on worth of items. So if a group of people can insure a bunch of gm stuff and kill each other on the facets. I think it should reproduce.

But just for fun...
Life is not an abstraction it exists. Perceptions or senses are standard minus illnesses. The abstraction is thought, meaning, values and chosen responses. As for consciousness... it is not only a moment. There is fore-thought and understanding of future consequences. A moment is in time is a moment in time. Consciousness breachedsthe boundaries of past present and future. But this is best discussed over a beer or two.

 

[Lissa Eldi]

Trammies go to a idoc thinking ooo ya loot, being trammies they go uninsured.....

Reds come along and say ooo uninsured suit, I know I check trammies when I see em in fel.

Next thing you know a trammie has their whole blue guild crying about a bug or exploit and wah wah wah I lost my whole suit other people are hacking cry cry cry, post on stratics and cry cry cry.

Honestly whats more trammie then that?

Who hasn't seen this before raise their hand.

Wouldnt that be pretty rare? Despite generalizing as you do or making them out to be idiots, most "trammies" I know run insurance like everyone else hehe.

 

[Vyal]

No this is not rare at all, I see this same type of situation at least once a month tbh.

Hey I have even been the stupid guy to not insure something every now and then, or not keep enough gold in the bank..

I was spawning harbringers in the twisted wield I spawned like 19 of em one day noticed the third level spawn didn't attack em and spent about 4 mill trying to get em all down before server down thinking they would de spawn all my stuff came uninsured and I lost a totem of the void to a horse archer guy..

It happens just go out and buy more stuff, it's only pixels.....

 

[RavenWinterHawk]

Im a Termurian.

I have access to PvP and PvM in one cavern.

 

[Andy_Mythic]

I've forwarded this thread, and subsequently the issue, along to be investigated.

Thanks!

 

[Lynk]

It hurts like you just got punched in the gut and you weren't ready for it (unless Lynk is doing the punching because all of his pvp chars hit like a girl anyway). At least imbuing is here to make uo life easier, and all the major tokunos are all cheap now.

I just blushed IRL due to your infatuation with me!

 

[Lynk]

There is no bug, there is no hack. There is stupidity and embarrassment. I've dropped a couple of suits over the years and it's because I either forgot to turn on auto-renew or I didn't have enough gold in the bank.

It happens.

People are just to embarrassed to admit that they messed up so they cry foul play.

 

[onthefifty]

hey lynk, said it before and i'll say it again, you sure bring out some strong reactions outta people.

that being said, our guild killed a guy in yew two nites ago. all his stuff dropped. we returned it. the guy is an active pvp'r and i doubt highly it wasnt insured. i believe this needs to be seriously looked at. my main pvp'r red mage has an expensive get up. i have not changed his suit in a while and i always have cash in the bank box. that said i'd be reallly disheartened if i had to go out and replace all that, even given the fact i have the means to do so.

some do not have the means or the time. this would be a great set back.

also take a step back and stop using this thread as a means to bash a trammel or fel playstyle. keep in your mind the versatility this game offers to allow different types. some donot want to pvp, some donot want to craft, point being your not forced to in order to have enjoyment in this world

try to keep that in mind.

personally i feel that this needs to be looked at by the dev's, and that is the intitial posts point.