Thread hijack removed from UHall thread

[The Zog historian]

You could always make a new thread in rants and raves...

Was AFK Macroing legal in 1998(like anyone cares) (DISCLAIMER : Pissing contest in progress)
ENTER AT YOUR OWN RISK!!

I'm sure that would work...

Let me know if anything useful regarding the OP has been posted..pfft like we get useful posts :clown:

There actually should have been no question about it from the first time I mentioned it. The problem is that few of us from the first couple of years remain, and while someone and I remember the fact that unattended macroing was fine, there are others who don't, no doubt based on their opinion of the time that it was wrong.

 

[Flutter]

Do people actually really care this much about if something was legal once in 1998 or not?
It probably was and we don't remember. It's not like they had a lot of experience in MMOs back then. There's lots of stuff that were made illegal as they came up.
Really guys, take a step back for a while. You really really shouldn't care this much either way.

 

[Uvtha]

Tell that to the other guy who prolonged the thread. I am not the one who someone pointed out made the longest post he'd ever seen.



You didn't understand the comparison either, I see.

He's not pleading innocence, you are. And yea, I understand your comparison, but to compare someone denying the murder of millions to someone disagreeing with you about a video game is simply crass, and classless.

 

[WootSauce]

Just gonna throw this out there. If a mod is thinking about locking this thread, can you please consider stripping out the crap from this thread and not lock it? Lots of good info, about the publish is in here, and the title itself is about pub 84. Not that I don't find some of the derail topic interesting, but holy crap it's being carried off the rails and trolled to hell.

 

[The Zog historian]

He's not pleading innocence, you are. And yea, I understand your comparison, but to compare someone denying the murder of millions to someone disagreeing with you about a video game is simply crass, and classless.

It's hardly either. It's an apt comparison when someone denies what is clearly undeniable. I've made point after point, given example after example, yet certain people insist on their historical revisionism. I have to doubt if they were ever really there.

"Pleading innocence" is your melodramatic way of putting it. I merely took it for granted that old-timers knew macroing was undesired, and complained about by some players (typically the jealous sort with poor connections or didn't know how to set up a macro), yet perfectly legal for quite a long time.

 

[The Zog historian]

Do people actually really care this much about if something was legal once in 1998 or not?
It probably was and we don't remember. It's not like they had a lot of experience in MMOs back then. There's lots of stuff that were made illegal as they came up.
Really guys, take a step back for a while. You really really shouldn't care this much either way.

I remember. I spent many an evening perfecting a new macro to maximize my tailoring revenue. I used to laugh at the blue PKs burning off counts, and my friend's ghost spamming "All shall pay" in the inn. Not many had spirit speak back then.

How about this: do you remember when one could mine through the walls? My best friend had quite a good macro going, and since it was before UOA was legal, the macro double-clicked several spots in the backpack and targeted the 7x7's little forge. Pretty darned clever.

For anyone to deny it was legal for quite a long time is faulty memory at minimum.

 

[WootSauce]

It's hardly either. It's an apt comparison when someone denies what is clearly undeniable. I've made point after point, given example after example, yet certain people insist on their historical revisionism. I have to doubt if they were ever really there.

"Pleading innocence" is your melodramatic way of putting it. I merely took it for granted that old-timers knew macroing was undesired, and complained about by some players (typically the jealous sort with poor connections or didn't know how to set up a macro), yet perfectly legal for quite a long time.

Stop stop stop stop stop. Seriously. Shut it.

 

[The Zog historian]

Stop stop stop stop stop. Seriously. Shut it.

Then you can stop replying to me. Someone else questioned my memory, you weren't involved, and you're telling me to stop?

Yeah. "Seriously."

 

[The Zog historian]

Perhaps if I had instead referred to moon landing deniers, certain people's knickers wouldn't have gotten so bunched up?

 

[NuSair]

[quote="The Zog historian, post: 2326912, member: 156794]"I'm butting heads with the equivalent of Holocaust deniers"

Really? REALLY?[/quote]


Yeah... that's why I left this conversation a while ago- it became quite apparent that even if Richard Garriott and the dev team from back then all came here and said otherwise, he would still argue it. Isn't worth the stress.

 

[The Zog historian]

Yeah... that's why I left this conversation a while ago- it became quite apparent that even if Richard Garriott and the dev team from back then all came here and said otherwise, he would still argue it. Isn't worth the stress.

You simply couldn't refute the fact that it was so legal that many of us did it out in the open, just like trapping monsters was legal, just like gating monsters was legal.

And to think all I said was this, and suddenly I'm the heretic the lot of you wanted to burn at the stake.

"At least those could be macroed afk, which was legal then. I remember when eval for spell damage was introduced, and everybody parked chars around town criers."

 

[NuSair]

You simply couldn't refute the fact that it was so legal that many of us did it out in the open, just like trapping monsters was legal, just like gating monsters was legal.

Whatever floats your boat, lmao. If that's what you need to think, you go right ahead.

Just because something isn't specifically named illegal doesn't make it legal.

 

[The Zog historian]

Since you weren't around then, I should inform you that it was actually so known to the Devs that when they discussed it often, it wasn't about declaring it illegal, but to make regular play give good enough gains that players wouldn't do it unattended. They missed the point, however, with macroing off murder counts and selling things to NPCs.

Your argument of a "positive legality" has no logic at all. Show me where in the rules that hitting a monster with a sword is said to be legal. Show me where the old para/exp combo was legal. On the other hand, old house break-in exploits were clearly illegal, per the ToS, no matter what some early GMs did to dismiss them. (Imagine that, and you cited a GM's action as proof something was illegal.) Third-party programs were clearly illegal, per the ToS.

 

[NuSair]

Since you weren't around then,

I've been around since beta... thanks for playing though.

 

[The Zog historian]

Then you should have remembered, shouldn't you have. Nice lack of rebuttal on everything else, but that's to be expected.

 

[NuSair]

I have no need or desire to post a rebuttal, because as you have shown elsewhere, even when proven wrong, you will continue to argue ad nauseum. I bet if Ralph Koster and Richard Garriott came in here and said something contrary to what you believe, you would say they were wrong as well.

I have my experience, conversations with GMs and devs, and my memories which say something different to what you are. And that's fine. I have no need to prove anything to you. Because, in the end, it doesn't really matter. You aren't going to convince me of anything and I am not going to sway you. I know what I have seen and experienced. Yours is different. Case closed.

 

[The Zog historian]

I have no need or desire to post a rebuttal, because as you have shown elsewhere, even when proven wrong, you will continue to argue ad nauseum. I bet if Ralph Koster and Richard Garriott came in here and said something contrary to what you believe, you would say they were wrong as well.

I have my experience, conversations with GMs and devs, and my memories which say something different to what you are. And that's fine. I have no need to prove anything to you. Because, in the end, it doesn't really matter. You aren't going to convince me of anything and I am not going to sway you. I know what I have seen and experienced. Yours is different. Case closed.

"Even when proven wrong"? Hasn't happened yet, and against the likes of you, never. You still can't explain why, if macroing was so illegal, so many players openly macroed anatomy and eval on town criers --- and the fix wasn't to remind players of any rules, but to make the skills unusable on town criers. Blue PKs macroing off counts in town. Red ghosts macroing off counts. Unattended macroing was even referenced in UO comics. You have nothing to say about these, instead falling back on some faulty memory that I suspect comes from an anti-macroing bias.

I didn't need to have conversations with GMs, in contrast to your fiction. Macroing was so openly discussed on Stratics and Crossroads of Britannia, with not a peep about illegality, to the extent that people asked what the best macro program was. It was actually so known to the Devs that when they discussed it often, it wasn't about declaring it illegal, but to make regular play give good enough gains that players wouldn't do it unattended. They missed the point, however, with macroing off murder counts and selling things to NPCs.

Your argument of a "positive legality" has no logic at all. Show me where in the rules that hitting a monster with a sword is said to be legal. Show me where the old para/exp combo was legal. On the other hand, old house break-in exploits were clearly illegal, per the ToS, no matter what some early GMs did to dismiss them. (Imagine that, and you cited a GM's action as proof something was illegal.) Third-party programs were clearly illegal, per the ToS.

If you want to keep ignoring simple facts, I will simply keep copying and pasting.

 

[Viper09]

 

[Zosimus]

Wtf is wrong with you people? Arguing about something over a decade and half old with little or no importance in today's world.

 

[The Zog historian]

Don't look at me, I already said. Perhaps you can explain to me why they deny something was legal, coming up with all sorts of excuses ("You just weren't caught"), when it was so legal that we did it openly at banks.

 

[Acid Rain]

You can always tell when someone knows they've lost an argument - they start to fling insults. Attempts to illicit an emotional response which give way for aggressive attacks is a common tactic. When someone starts using insults I usually smile to myself and walk away knowing Ive won.

I was also there at the start. I would never take the time and effort Harlequin did to debate history of a computer game but in my circle of friends it was common knowledge unattended macroing wasn't allowed. One friend, from the very start, kept 3 accounts going at ALL times just so when he got caught multiple times(and eventually banned) he would always have a backup to play. This happened to him about once every 3-4 months like clockwork until around early 1999 when they just declined his CC entirely.

Folks still AFK macro at banks all the time today, it must be legal ?

The next thing I know, I'm butting heads with the equivalent of Holocaust deniers.

Yes, we all understood the comparison. We just didn't like it.
Harlequin couldn't have been more polite and considerate.

 

[The Zog historian]

You can always tell when someone knows they've lost an argument - they start to fling insults.

And considering I did not throw out any "insults," your point is invalid.

Attempts to illicit an emotional response which give way for aggressive attacks is a common tactic.

There was no such attempt, except only in your mind. That you think there was such an attempt only shows how think-skinned and unreasonable you are.

When someone starts using insults I usually smile to myself and walk away knowing Ive won.

Or if the truth be told, when you've lost the argument you walk away and convince yourself you've won.

I was also there at the start. I would never take the time and effort Harlequin did to debate history of a computer game but in my circle of friends it was common knowledge unattended macroing wasn't allowed. One friend, from the very start, kept 3 accounts going at ALL times just so when he got caught multiple times(and eventually banned) he would always have a backup to play. This happened to him about once every 3-4 months like clockwork until around early 1999 when they just declined his CC entirely.

Folks still AFK macro at banks all the time today, it must be legal ?

Non sequitur. It's been declared specifically illegal -- in latter 1999.

Yes, we all understood the comparison. We just didn't like it.

I can't feel sorry you got your knickers in a knot over that. So should I have stuck with the Flat Earthist comparison?

Harlequin couldn't have been more polite and considerate.

One can be "polite and considerate" and still not comprehend something.

Just give up now, little one.

 

[Thegirlyouloved2hate]

Something I didn't notice at first: your memory there is faulty. The inn rooms with moongates (I've been there once) weren't set up until 1999.

If macroing wasn't legal, then please explain why people openly set up characters, not hiding, to do eval or anatomy on town criers.

Zog is correct end of story

 

[Acid Rain]

Where is old Zog? Its been almost 2 yrs since I've seen him profess ultimate knowledge in all thing UO, hahah.

Since he's apparently not around, I'll take my shot quick and say Harlequin is correct and your both wrong

 

[Yadd of Legends]

Funny you should rez this thread to mention @The Zog historian. I was just thinking of him the other day, wondering if he has moved on

 

[Acid Rain]

Oddly enough, this thread was still on my 1st page in this section. I saw my mini-avatar noting I had posted in the thread and didn't remember what the heck the thread was about so I clicked it to see

Couldn't help but wonder where ole Zoggy got to after reading the post