The Way Arti Drops Should Be Handled...

[Sonoma]

Devs, Please consider implementing a system like this for the distribution of artifact drops from peerless type monsters...

Take the number of people at the peerless when it spawns plus 50%. Divide the peerless hit points by that number. We will call this the "Responsibility Ratio" or "RR". This is the amount of damage a player needs to do to get the best chance at an artifact.

Now increase each players odds of an arti drop as their damage done approaches the "RR" number. More then one person can receive an arti at a time. In addition, add .2% chance for every instance you have helped to kill while meeting the "RR".

Example) If a peerless has 100,000 hit points and there are 10 people killing it, then the amount of damage each person has to do to get the highest chance at an arti is 100,000/15= 6,667points of damage. ("RR"=6,667)

Now, if the max chance at an arti you can get is a 5% drop rate, then scale it according to how much of that damage they did. If they did 6,667 points of damage or more, then they get a 5% chance at a drop, if they did 3,334 points of damage they get a 2.5% chance at a drop. If they poped out and hit it once at the end for 60 points of damage, then they get 0.0045% chance at an arti.
_________________________________________________________________

Now lets use "Boss A" as an example. "Boss A" has 75,000 hit points. There are 10 people fighting it. This means the "RR" is 5,000. (75,000/(10*1.5)) The max drop rate for an arti is 5%.

- Player 1 has never killed a "Boss A", this is their first time. Player 1 does 2,500 points of damage. 2,500 is only 50% of the required "RR". Therefore Player one gets a 2.5% chance at receiving an artifact.

- Player 2 has never killed a "Boss A", this is their first time. Player 2 does 10,000 points of damage. They have met the "RR" and therefore get a 5% chance at receiving an artifact.

-Player 3 has killed "Boss A" 70 times without receiving an artifact. Each time, Player 3 has met the "RR". This time Player 3 does 7,000 points of damage. This meets the current "RR" and they get their 5% chance at an artifact. They also receive a bonus of and additional 14% chance at an artifact because of the previous 70 "Boss A"s that they have killed without getting one. (70*.2% = 14%) Therefore, Player 3 has a 19% chance at receiving an artifact.

- Player 4 does not like to help others out. He sits there and lets them do all the work. When "Boss A" is almost dead, he pops out and hits it twice to try and get a chance at an artifact. He does a total of 100 points of damage before hiding again and waiting for the next one to spawn. However, with this new system, Player 4 is only hurting himself. 100 points of damage is only 2% of the "RR". This means that Player 4 only gets 2% of the possible 5% chance at an artifact. Thats a .001% chance at an artifact. Even though Player 4 has been at it for a week straight, and has "Helped" kill 875 "Boss A"s... he has always played selfishly and never tried to pull his own weight. He has never met the "RR" because he only pops out and does a little damage at the end of each spawn. Player 4 never gets a % bonus, and continues to only have a .001% chance at an artifact every time.





This way, the more people that are there, the better. No more whining and crying about people "stealing my spawn". Theoretically all 10 people could get an artifact off the same peerless, though it would be extremely unlikely. Those that hide and dont pull their fair share are only hurting themselves, and will actually want to work hard and do as much damage as possible to be sure they get the best chance at an arti. This would encourage people to work together, and if someone was still trying to be a jerk and only do a tiny bit of damage at the end, they would only be hurting themselves, and still actually helping the others.

It would also allow for a pretty wide variance in individual skill without allowing those that cant pull their fair share of work to mooch of those that do. A newbie who has not put in the time and work to build thier skills and gear will not be able to achieve the same chance at an artifact as someone who has put in the time and work to build a strong character. But there will still be enough room that people will not be getting screwed over because there is one super archer down there doing a ton of damage. By taking the number of players and multiplying it by 1.5, it creates a large enough window that most people will be able to meet the "RR". (For simplicities sake lets say that Boss A has 300 Hit points, and there are 2 people killing it. The "RR" would be 100 Hit Points. This means Player 1 would only have to do half as much damage as player 2 to meet the RR and get the max chance at an artifact. If player 1 is doing less then half the amount of damage Player 2 is doing, then in all reality, they simply do not deserve the same chance at an artifact, although they will still be getting a chance because they did help out and do some damage.)

Well, I know it was a lot to read. Hopefully I explained it well enough to follow. What do you think?

 

[Arcades]

Amen to that...RR is a very good idea. I really dont mind ppl helping out at boss fights, but the ones that wont rez you after u've redlined it and try to pop shot it for a few AIs to get looting rights is just downright aggravating.

And for those of you saying, "what about the healers and rez" players and other support classes like bards, well, party up with your damage dealing mates for equal opportunity at drops.

The one thing I disagree about is, there should only be 1 artifact drop...multiple will just oversaturate the market like the replicas already have. With the extremely low drop rate right now, building up your RR with each successive boss kill is good and the ppl putting in the effort will hopefully get their arti sooner than later.

 

[Thunderz]

Flat out wont work.

What about noobs?? So they dont have the RIGHT to be there or the RIGHT to get an arti doing 100 damage as they cant afford fell guilds prices for 120 PS's or sick armour??

Just because you can and you farm it all day and you dont get enough artis to feed your greed and others do and there crap compaired to you!

you make this post!!!

Good luck. Flat out NO from me.

Thunderz

 

[Sonoma]

Flat out wont work.

What about noobs?? So they dont have the RIGHT to be there or the RIGHT to get an arti doing 100 damage as they cant afford fell guilds prices for 120 PS's or sick armour??

Just because you can and you farm it all day and you dont get enough artis to feed your greed and others do and there crap compaired to you!

you make this post!!!

Good luck. Flat out NO from me.

Thunderz

At the risk of sounding harsh... No, a brand new player should not begetting the same exact chance at an artifact as a player that has worked long and hard to build legendary skills. Why should a player who does not have the experience and has not put in the time and work get the same chance as someone who has and is doing a vastly superior amount of the work? That just does not make any sense at all. Under this system a new player COULD still go down and get a chance at an artifact... but they would only get the same amount of chance at it as the contribution they make. If they make nearly no contribution, they SHOULD NOT get the same high chance as the people that put in all the real contribution.

 

[Cogniac]

Flat out wont work.

What about noobs?? So they dont have the RIGHT to be there or the RIGHT to get an arti doing 100 damage as they cant afford fell guilds prices for 120 PS's or sick armour??

Just because you can and you farm it all day and you dont get enough artis to feed your greed and others do and there crap compaired to you!

you make this post!!!

Good luck. Flat out NO from me.

Thunderz

Thunderz has not made any friends yet

And we can all see why.

 

[Lady_Mina]

but on the other side...

Imagen having a tamer...your dragon does less damage then a sampire.

But your pet fuctions as 'the tank' , during the fight you have to spam greater heal and/or vet your pet to keep it's health up...and this is rewarded by less chance to get an arti...

 

[Sonoma]

but on the other side...

Imagen having a tamer...your dragon does less damage then a sampire.

But your pet fuctions as 'the tank' , during the fight you have to spam greater heal and/or vet your pet to keep it's health up...and this is rewarded by less chance to get an arti...

No, this is not rewarded with less chance at an arti. Maybe I was not clear enough. It does not matter if someone does 'more" damage then you. As long as you are actually pulling a fair share of the weight. Someone can literally do twice as much damage as you and you would still get the same chance at an arti as you would. Now if you are doing less then half the amount of damage as the other person there then yes you would start to get into the area where you would have less of a chance. But even this is still fair. Even if you get a little bit less of a chance... the other person is doing twice the amount of damage you are, which means you are killing the boss three times faster then if you did it alone. So you would STILL be getting a better deal.

 

[Thunderz]

At the risk of sounding harsh... No, a brand new player should not begetting the same exact chance at an artifact as a player that has worked long and hard to build legendary skills. Why should a player who does not have the experience and has not put in the time and work get the same chance as someone who has and is doing a vastly superior amount of the work? That just does not make any sense at all. Under this system a new player COULD still go down and get a chance at an artifact... but they would only get the same amount of chance at it as the contribution they make. If they make nearly no contribution, they SHOULD NOT get the same high chance as the people that put in all the real contribution.

So you sit there doing 100 dmg i sit there doing 10. HOW are you putting in more contribution than me?? we both sit there killing the boss for the same amount of time at the same time, so just because you have more gold than me you should have more rights over loot than me?? Yeaaaaah rigggght

On another note, so what i should do is like you, write a script so my 120 all skill char with his 200mill kit can sit there killing the boss while im in bed or at work and because he's killing EVERY single boss for 24 hours he gets an extra % every one he kills without getting a drop till he gets to the point he's "owed a drop.."

So basically i can run the script 24/7 and be guarateed 5 artis a day doing NOTHING?? When people who really play and dont have gold to build a perfect char get 0% as there not as good as my scripting char making 150mill a day making him richer and the poor poorer.....

Again NOT gona happen, stupid idea and stupidly thought out [rich get richer poor get poorer/greedy get... well just as greedy!!!!!]

Thunderz

 

[Thunderz]

but on the other side...

Imagen having a tamer...your dragon does less damage then a sampire.

But your pet fuctions as 'the tank' , during the fight you have to spam greater heal and/or vet your pet to keep it's health up...and this is rewarded by less chance to get an arti...

Yeah thats another perfect way of putting it, you'd end up with less dmg overall than anyone else but your really doing ALL the work keeping your pet alive so it takes all the hits and not the DPS people.

You should do what iv done for years.. Invis your pet so the boss targets someone else and watch them run and die when they dont have your pet to lean on. Then call you names for invising your pet and letting them get hit! Always make me Roflmfao

Thunderz

 

[Sonoma]

So you sit there doing 100 dmg i sit there doing 10. HOW are you putting in more contribution than me??

LoL, someone needs to review their math basics. That's the funniest question I have ever seen on these boards.

On another note, so what i should do is like you, write a script so my 120 all skill char with his 200mill kit can sit there killing the boss while im in bed or at work and because he's killing EVERY single boss for 24 hours he gets an extra % every one he kills without getting a drop till he gets to the point he's "owed a drop.."

So basically i can run the script 24/7 and be guarateed 5 artis a day doing NOTHING?? When people who really play and dont have gold to build a perfect char get 0% as there not as good as my scripting char making 150mill a day making him richer and the poor poorer.....

Again NOT gona happen, stupid idea and stupidly thought out [rich get richer poor get poorer/greedy get... well just as greedy!!!!!]

Thunderz

Dude, take your issues elsewere and stop trying to derail my thread with lame accusations. This new systems would PREVENT the people who run scripts from poping out, taking a couple hits and then hiding. This system would HELP the people who actually play. And if you want the same chance at an arti as those people who have put in the work to fully build a character, then build your own. a 2:1 damage ratio is more then generouse enough to allow the poor players to play alongside the rich players as long as their character is trained up and geared to the point where they should legitimately be there.

 

[Capt.E]

Here is why this won't work. My sampire with spellweaving does a ton of damage. So out of the 100,000 points I do say 60,000 and no one else gets arti drop rights but me. So I say no. Should there be a minimum?? Maybe, but we all play the game in our own way. Does it really matter when it comes down to it?

 

[Arcades]

Thunderz, you're THAT guy that does not appreciate teamwork. Actually you're probably the scripter on a "young" char that pops in for an AI or two to get looting rights...way to go. Keep it up noob.


A tamer over time will do more than enuf damage to get looting rights even tho their GD is the tank. They may not be the top damager, but when the top damager doesnt get any better chance at an arti than someone that has surpassed the required # of damage dealt to gain looting rights, everyone benefits. Those stragglers that dont deal much damage, and the pot shotters, go home, its not hard to make/buy a spider slayer spell book, weapon/bow that will deal damage...if you arent contributing for the sake of trying to help everyone kill the boss, well you shouldnt be rewarded for your selfish tries to hit a boss for minimal damage to get looting rights.

 

[Sonoma]

Here is why this won't work. My sampire with spellweaving does a ton of damage. So out of the 100,000 points I do say 60,000 and no one else gets arti drop rights but me. So I say no. Should there be a minimum?? Maybe, but we all play the game in our own way. Does it really matter when it comes down to it?

I dont think you understand what I wrote. Try reading it again. First of all your sampire will not be doing 60,000 damage in the time it takes everybody else to do 40,000 damage all combined unless they are player on fishermen and crafters. Now, even if it was just 2 of you, and you did 60,000 damage the other person would have done 40,000 and they would still get the max % chance at a drop. If there were 3 people or even 4 people you would have to be doing more then all of the other players combined for any of them to not get max % chance. And even if they did NOT get the max % chance... they would still get a % chance at an arti. And they boss would be killed a LOT faster then if they did it alone and got max% chance, so they would STILL be getting a better deal working with you.

 

[Sonoma]

Thunderz, you're THAT guy that does not appreciate teamwork. Actually you're probably the scripter on a "young" char that pops in for an AI or two to get looting rights...way to go. Keep it up noob.


A tamer over time will do more than enuf damage to get looting rights even tho their GD is the tank. They may not be the top damager, but when the top damager doesnt get any better chance at an arti than someone that has surpassed the required # of damage dealt to gain looting rights, everyone benefits. Those stragglers that dont deal much damage, and the pot shotters, go home, its not hard to make/buy a spider slayer spell book, weapon/bow that will deal damage...if you arent contributing for the sake of trying to help everyone kill the boss, well you shouldnt be rewarded for your selfish tries to hit a boss for minimal damage to get looting rights.

OMG, Thank you... someone took the time to read the whole system, and actually understood what I wrote instead of skimming it and talking crap about what they think I must have written. Thank you.

 

[Thunderz]

LoL, someone needs to review their math basics. That's the funniest question I have ever seen on these boards.

Dude, take your issues elsewere and stop trying to derail my thread with lame accusations. This new systems would PREVENT the people who run scripts from poping out, taking a couple hits and then hiding. This system would HELP the people who actually play. And if you want the same chance at an arti as those people who have put in the work to fully build a character, then build your own. a 2:1 damage ratio is more then generouse enough to allow the poor players to play alongside the rich players as long as their character is trained up and geared to the point where they should legitimately be there.

LOL if you can read you'd have noticed the rest of the sentance says "just because your doing more dmg than me, were both there killing it for the same amount of time, plus if you read the post above you'll see that you couldnt kill it anyway without someones dragon "tanking" while you dps and they just have to heal there GD so you dont get 1 shotted, so they dont deserve to same [same as in EQUAL] loot rights as you......... Realy i hope your joking.

And no it would'nt stop the scripters, as its pretty easy to write one that will sit there shooting arrows at EVER nav that spawns all day every day with a 5x slayer bow doing 200-300 every 1.25 seconds!! Thus being the one thats always there but never really doing anything like tamer that have to be there playing.

Oh and by the way, with 35 posts you havent be around long to really hold weight commenting on others posts!!

As i said silly idea, wont happen, wont work thats why games dont have a system like this already in the 12+ years MMORPGs have been about [else my lock in wow would own the game and the warrior tank would be well usless roflmfao]

Thunderz

 

[Tjalle]

If I understood the math correctly, and I think I did, then it sounds like a good suggestion to me...

 

[Aran]

Thunderz, do you have a job?

If you do, you have a boss. Your boss does a lot more work than you, and gets paid appropriately.

Do you think that just because you and your boss work the same 8 hours a day you should be paid the same regardless of who does what?

 

[phantus]

Or we could use the DOOM method everyone is already familiar with that allows up to 16 people to be able to get an arty. Dev time is valuable and we only have 5 left(whatever.)

 

[Arcades]

Coming from you Thunderz, 522 posts of which r noob questions/trolls b/c you fail to read FAQs and fail to understand game mechanics, I'd hardly be the one to speak.

 

[Endrik]

And no it would'nt stop the scripters, as its pretty easy to write one that will sit there shooting arrows at EVER nav that spawns all day every day with a 5x slayer bow doing 200-300 every 1.25 seconds!! Thus being the one thats always there but never really doing anything like tamer that have to be there playing.

Oh and by the way, with 35 posts you havent be around long to really hold weight commenting on others posts!!


Thunderz

Funny that a guy with "so few" posts has made a good suggestion using logic that you are unable to follow. He is right... if you do the math, this is a WAY better system then we have now. Thunderz your the one who does not understand what your talking about. His system more then compensates for a wide variance in skill and template, without leaving room for abuse from those who don't want to actually do any of the real work. Your the one who came in here and attacked his suggestion and so far you have not been able to offer anything even close to a logical, reasonable line of thought as to why this is a bad system.

It was a long post and I had to read it through 2 or 3 times to make sure I understood it, but ya, this is a really good idea!

 

[Thunderz]

No, this is not rewarded with less chance at an arti. Maybe I was not clear enough. It does not matter if someone does 'more" damage then you. As long as you are actually pulling a fair share of the weight. Someone can literally do twice as much damage as you and you would still get the same chance at an arti as you would. Now if you are doing less then half the amount of damage as the other person there then yes you would start to get into the area where you would have less of a chance. But even this is still fair. Even if you get a little bit less of a chance... the other person is doing twice the amount of damage you are, which means you are killing the boss three times faster then if you did it alone. So you would STILL be getting a better deal.

Is that not a huge contradiction of a worthless point. Irelevent as the next one wont spawn any faster.

Thunderz

 

[Sonoma]

Is that not a huge contradiction of a worthless point. Irelevent as the next one wont spawn any faster.

Thunderz

Sigh... no, again, you dont know what your talking about. Slasher respawns instantly, and all the peerless that need keys can be done back to back if you have already farmed the keys. The only one (Out of all the peerless type encounters in the entire game) that you could have a slight point is with Navrey. This system would be a huge benefit for ALL other cases, and even if it didnt speed up Navery, it would still benefit those who are hunting her. So the only thing this post did was point out that one small benefit of this new system may possibly not apply to one single boss encounter. Good job. Please go troll elsewhere.

 

[Thunderz]

Um if you look it WONT work as i could easly write a script that would mean my sammy would sit there with his bow killing EVERY Nav doing 200-300 dmg every 1.25 seconds [not taking a single hit ever] and I'D get a % bonus for the fact im there 24/7 and everyone else does an hour or so!

Explain how thats a fair way to work it.

Thunderz

EDIT*** Iv just realised, the system your sugesting to REINTRODUCE is the old doom system! That got changed and changed and changed because it DIDNT work and WASNT fair i.e the top dmg dellers and the people who scripted/farmed it got all the rares! Over the last 7 years that system has been abolished in every instance it was released in [doom/pereless (having to drop party them the top dmg got all the loot)/TOT].
Sounds like you havent played the game long enough to remember them changing it AWAY from your system as it DIDNT work roflmfao!!!

 

[Arcades]

And if you should write a script that would shoot Navrey every 1.25s, who says ppl wouldnt figure it out, and just stop killing her. You'll be a dead scripter trying to 1v1 any boss, then the rest of the players can continue. Wow, do you even play this game? Doubt it b/c you're the script stealther that pop shots a few AIs to get looting rights right now, and fails to contribute to killing anything.

 

[Sonoma]

Um if you look it WONT work as i could easly write a script that would mean my sammy would sit there with his bow killing EVERY Nav doing 200-300 dmg every 1.25 seconds [not taking a single hit ever] and I'D get a % bonus for the fact im there 24/7 and everyone else does an hour or so!

Explain how thats a fair way to work it.

Thunderz

Scripting is a completely different problem that is being adressed by the devs. And to be honest I would love to see you write that script as someone would page on you and have yu banned soon enough. If you could write that script and run it with my system then you could write it and run it now and you would still have an advantage over those who are really playing. Stop trying to use an unrelated problem in your argument here. If you really think about it my system would bennifit the real players in that scenario because they would stand a better chance of getting the artifacts for the work they put in and would not have to depend on buying from a scripter.

You seem to have taken a personal interest in attacking and derailing this thread, and so far your reasoning has been incredibly poor. The only thing we can assume is that you are in fact one of the guys popping out and doing minimal damge to get your artis, and you dont want to see this changed because it would mean that you would actually have to work for it. Or you are already running a script which gives you a large advantage over the real players, and you dont want to see that change either.

 

[Endrik]

So you sit there doing 100 dmg i sit there doing 10. HOW are you putting in more contribution than me?? we both sit there killing the boss for the same amount of time at the same time, so just because you have more gold than me you should have more rights over loot than me?? Yeaaaaah rigggght

Thunderz, do you have a job?

If you do, you have a boss. Your boss does a lot more work than you, and gets paid appropriately.

Do you think that just because you and your boss work the same 8 hours a day you should be paid the same regardless of who does what?

LOL

Its this kind of lazy entitled thinking that is ruining our country. People think that they deserve and have a right to everything someone else has without having to do any of the work the other people did to get it. Disgusting.

 

[Thunderz]

Sigh... no, again, you dont know what your talking about. Slasher respawns instantly, and all the peerless that need keys can be done back to back if you have already farmed the keys. The only one (Out of all the peerless type encounters in the entire game) that you could have a slight point is with Navrey. This system would be a huge benefit for ALL other cases, and even if it didnt speed up Navery, it would still benefit those who are hunting her. So the only thing this post did was point out that one small benefit of this new system may possibly not apply to one single boss encounter. Good job. Please go troll elsewhere.

Read the bold bits and the red bits [sorry if your colourblind!] but you completly contradicted yourself!!

Thunderz

 

[Thunderz]

LOL

Its this kind of lazy entitled thinking that is ruining our country. People think that they deserve and have a right to everything someone else has without having to do any of the work the other people did to get it. Disgusting.

Nop sorry doesnt work im afraid, i am the boss

and again im sure anyone who has played long enough will agree with my edit [see below]

EDIT*** Iv just realised, the system your sugesting to REINTRODUCE is the old doom system! That got changed and changed and changed because it DIDNT work and WASNT fair i.e the top dmg dellers and the people who scripted/farmed it got all the rares! Over the last 7 years that system has been abolished in every instance it was released in [doom/pereless (having to drop party them the top dmg got all the loot)/TOT].
Sounds like you havent played the game long enough to remember them changing it AWAY from your system as it DIDNT work roflmfao!!!

 

[Sonoma]

Nop sorry doesnt work im afraid, i am the boss

and again im sure anyone who has played long enough will agree with my edit [see below]

EDIT*** Iv just realised, the system your sugesting to REINTRODUCE is the old doom system! That got changed and changed and changed because it DIDNT work and WASNT fair i.e the top dmg dellers and the people who scripted/farmed it got all the rares! Over the last 7 years that system has been abolished in every instance it was released in [doom/pereless (having to drop party them the top dmg got all the loot)/TOT].
Sounds like you havent played the game long enough to remember them changing it AWAY from your system as it DIDNT work roflmfao!!!

Wow, this is me restraining from attacking your intellect. Read my original post again. My system would not reward the top damagers only. It would simply reward those actually pulling their fair share of the weight. Even if a total noob who did not belong at a high end peerless came and did minimal damage they would still get some chance. This system gives people exactly what they earn... and its dynamic enough to adjust to ANY size group of players automatically. Please... read my original post again and start responding to what I wrote... not what your assuming I wrote.

 

[Thunderz]

The old system didnt JUST reward the top but thats the jist of it how it used to work.

Never gona happen, silly idea, been done before, wont work.... end of.

Thunderz

 

[Serine]

Its a great idea . i am all for it .

 

[Serine]

The old system didnt JUST reward the top but thats the jist of it how it used to work.

Never gona happen, silly idea, been done before, wont work.... end of.

Thunderz

pretty sure you are one of the players just popping in to do minimum damage for artis . and seeing this awsome idea is freeking you out , because if it would happen you would actually be forced to play .

 

[Mairut]

This is a great idea, I hope the devs consider it.

 

[Obsidian]

I would prefer a system that does not directly pit players against other players. My preference would be for a Doom-style points system that each individual accrues from killing the bosses (and I would add Niporalem to the list of bosses). If you are in the top 20 damagers you get points, which vary in intensity based on the amount of damage done to the boss, the individual's luck, and, of course, it all depends on the RNG. Also, the points possible should scale with the boss. For instance, Slasher and Stygian Dragon should give more points than Navrey due to the time it takes to kill one of them compared with a Navrey. With this sort of system, individual's earn the items via repeated efforts of their own and not the flimsy whim of the RNG at each boss' death. You could also drop the silly respawn timer delay for Navrey.

I would also change the drop system where certain boss' have specific items to make the entire list of new items available from all bosses. Let the RNG drop whatever it wants (like Doom) and then have a turn-in system in the Royal City. If you get 5 arties you don't want, you trade them in for one that you do. It doesn't have to be a minor/major system like Treasure's of Tokuno, but a simple exchange system. For instance, I would gladly trade a combo of 5 venom and manglers for one tangle.

-OBSIDIAN-

 

[kinney42]

I think it's a good idea but I believe the current Doom system is a better way to do it simply because you never have to rely on the INCREDIBLY terrible RNG in this game. The doom system assigns you points and when you get to that hard cap BOOM! Arti. The Hard Cap is (imho) very important.
Here is an example.
When my sampire dies he has to get back into Vampire Form. I carry around a Tunic of Fortune for the LRC. It has 40% LRC. I have sat there, getting the message about needing reagents to cast the spell sometimes (and I am not making this up at all, I counted) 19 times in a row. The RNG didn't roll a 40% or lower NINETEEN times in a row?
No. Sorry. That's just not acceptable.
The RNG needs to be VASTLY improved before anything relying on it should be implimented.
That being said I really do like the idea, but the RNG in this game will hold it back.

 

[Sonoma]

I would prefer a system that does not directly pit players against other players. My preference would be for a Doom-style points system that each individual accrues from killing the bosses (and I would add Niporalem to the list of bosses). If you are in the top 20 damagers you get points, which vary in intensity based on the amount of damage done to the boss, the individual's luck, and, of course, it all depends on the RNG.

-OBSIDIAN-

That is actually the point of this system. It would eliminate the current mentality of competing against other players. This new system would reward teamwork and playing in groups, without the drawback of allowing it to be exploited by the people who just take a few shots at the end without making a real contribution. The problem with having a "Top X Damagers" is that if you do any damage at all in a group lower then that number you get the same chance as the people who actually did the majority of the work. And if your in a group larger then that number, then it pits player against player as everybody is competing to be one of the top damagers by bumping someone else off that list.

I know its a long post, by try reading through it again and you will see that this does exactly what you are asking for while eliminating the ability to be abused by those who do not put in their fair share of work.

 

[Sonoma]

I think it's a good idea but I believe the current Doom system is a better way to do it simply because you never have to rely on the INCREDIBLY terrible RNG in this game. The doom system assigns you points and when you get to that hard cap BOOM! Arti. The Hard Cap is (imho) very important...
The RNG needs to be VASTLY improved before anything relying on it should be implimented.
That being said I really do like the idea, but the RNG in this game will hold it back.

I completely agree with you, the RNG is a horrible horrible program that is incredibly inaccurate and prone to streaking. That is one of the main reasons I came up with this system. The more bosses you kill, the higher your chance at getting an artifact. Eventually you will reach a "Hard Cap" as you called it and be guarenteed to get an artifact... although in reality even with the crapy RNG that we have, it would happen a good deal before you reach that cap.

This new system still uses the RNG which the devs seem to be a huge fan of... but it also eliminates the possibility of getting screwed by the RNG over and over again. It combines the best of both worlds. You could very possibly get an artifact on your first boss... but if the RNG hates you and you do get repeatedly screwed... then you would eventually be assured of getting one.

In addition this system would adapt to any size group of players, and encourage them to work together instead of the way it is now where it either encourages people to fight against each other, or encourages players to hide in the shadows and let others do the majority of the work only to jump out in the end to strike a few points. With this new system people would be happy to see others show up and help kill the boss because it would mean an easier fight, while not decreasing their chance at an artifact at all.

I have a dream... that one day... UO players will enjoy playing along side other UO players... and that they will be rewarded for doing so!

 

[kinney42]

yeah you got yourself a nice system. Well thought out. I like it. LETS DO THIS!!!!

 

[Obsidian]

That is actually the point of this system. It would eliminate the current mentality of competing against other players. This new system would reward teamwork and playing in groups, without the drawback of allowing it to be exploited by the people who just take a few shots at the end without making a real contribution. The problem with having a "Top X Damagers" is that if you do any damage at all in a group lower then that number you get the same chance as the people who actually did the majority of the work. And if your in a group larger then that number, then it pits player against player as everybody is competing to be one of the top damagers by bumping someone else off that list.

I know its a long post, by try reading through it again and you will see that this does exactly what you are asking for while eliminating the ability to be abused by those who do not put in their fair share of work.

Ok, I thought about your system. You sold me. I like it. I would still like a means to exchange roughly 5 items for the one that you actually want (a la Treasures of Tokuno exchange system). They also need to expand the system to include Niporalem. I'm ok with them buffing him slightly if they will add him.

-OBSIDIAN-

 

[Stupid Miner]

A few things I think should be tacked on

Within 2 screens of a boss:

-If someone heals another player, the amount healed x 1.5 in converted into damage points.
---(Is fair since amount able to be healed is much lower than the maximum damage output, and Heals are slower than hits)
-If someone heals another player's Pet, the amount healed x 1 is converted into damage points.

-If someone Resurrects another player, they receive + "RR"/10 points.
-If someone Resurrects another player's Pet, they receive + "RR"/15 points.
-If someone Resurrects the same player or pet more than once, they receive half as many points for each time they rez the person.
---Example: First time the player is rezed + "RR"/10 points. Second time: + "RR"/20 points. Third time: + "RR"/40 points. etc. (this is to avoid people trying to exploit the system by whacking and rezing a friend over, and over)
Addendum: If someone is healing or rezing a guildmate (or their pet), the points received are halved.

-If someone Discords the boss, the points they receive are multiplied by 1.1 (perhaps 1.2?) for as long as the Discord is in effect.

And perhaps also to help out those who are doing the tanking:
-Player receives (Damage taken from the Boss)/20 points.
-Tamers receive (Damage taken by their pets from the Boss)/30 points.

 

[Harlequin]

I think it's a good idea but I believe the current Doom system is a better way to do it simply because you never have to rely on the INCREDIBLY terrible RNG in this game. The doom system assigns you points and when you get to that hard cap BOOM! Arti. The Hard Cap is (imho) very important...
The RNG needs to be VASTLY improved before anything relying on it should be implimented.
That being said I really do like the idea, but the RNG in this game will hold it back.

I completely agree with you, the RNG is a horrible horrible program that is incredibly inaccurate and prone to streaking. That is one of the main reasons I came up with this system. The more bosses you kill, the higher your chance at getting an artifact. Eventually you will reach a "Hard Cap" as you called it and be guarenteed to get an artifact... although in reality even with the crapy RNG that we have, it would happen a good deal before you reach that cap.

This new system still uses the RNG which the devs seem to be a huge fan of... but it also eliminates the possibility of getting screwed by the RNG over and over again. It combines the best of both worlds. You could very possibly get an artifact on your first boss... but if the RNG hates you and you do get repeatedly screwed... then you would eventually be assured of getting one.

In addition this system would adapt to any size group of players, and encourage them to work together instead of the way it is now where it either encourages people to fight against each other, or encourages players to hide in the shadows and let others do the majority of the work only to jump out in the end to strike a few points. With this new system people would be happy to see others show up and help kill the boss because it would mean an easier fight, while not decreasing their chance at an artifact at all.

I have a dream... that one day... UO players will enjoy playing along side other UO players... and that they will be rewarded for doing so!

A few things I think should be tacked on

Within 2 screens of a boss:

-If someone heals another player, the amount healed x 1.5 in converted into damage points.
---(Is fair since amount able to be healed is much lower than the maximum damage output, and Heals are slower than hits)
-If someone heals another player's Pet, the amount healed x 1 is converted into damage points.

-If someone Resurrects another player, they receive + "RR"/10 points.
-If someone Resurrects another player's Pet, they receive + "RR"/15 points.
-If someone Resurrects the same player or pet more than once, they receive half as many points for each time they rez the person.
---Example: First time the player is rezed + "RR"/10 points. Second time: + "RR"/20 points. Third time: + "RR"/40 points. etc. (this is to avoid people trying to exploit the system by whacking and rezing a friend over, and over)
Addendum: If someone is healing or rezing a guildmate (or their pet), the points received are halved.

-If someone Discords the boss, the points they receive are multiplied by 1.1 (perhaps 1.2?) for as long as the Discord is in effect.

And perhaps also to help out those who are doing the tanking:
-Player receives (Damage taken from the Boss)/20 points.
-Tamers receive (Damage taken by their pets from the Boss)/30 points.

Very well thought out, and I love the ability to scale it accordingly to the number of participants, plus the ease to adjust it to factor in other additions like what SM suggested.

The current Doom method does scale, but supports only up to the top 16 damagers AFAIK.

In practice though, I think enhancing the Doom point system might be alot easier to achieve. It already has most of the features that we are hoping for

- artie chance based on damage done, no 1 hit pot shots
- weakest damager needs to deal at least a certain percentage of the top damager to get looting rights/artie chance
- point system
- points are accumulated (until you receive an artie)
- multiple participants can get arties from the same kill (yes, this is already how it works currently)

What can be added is the scaling ability that will entice folks to jump in and help out. Plus points for healers and tankers. Plus maybe pooled luck. Instead of using luck from the top damager, use the combined luck of all eligible participants to determine loot.



Still the greatest advantage of this new system may prove to be its downfall - the scaling according to number of participants is gonna be tricky.

To let it scale without limit via the proposed formula where minimum damage = "Boss_HP/(Num_Participants*1.5)" might cause a phenomena down the road where players still login multiple chars and use these to drive the average numbers down.

eg boss has 100,000 hp, with 20 players actively fighting it, minimal damage they need to do is 333. If some of them log in alts (using different accounts), to artificially drive the number of participants up by another 20, that will mean that the minimal damage required will be lowered to 166.

Worst scenario, a guild can log in enough alts (those shoot and hide ones) to reduce the minimal required to perhaps low enough to bring us back to the "1-hit pot-shot to get artie" state of affairs.

Of course the scenario above might not be likely now, but if there's a loophole somewhere, someone will exploit it.

As mentioned earlier, the current doom system already scales, but is limited to the top 16 . Perhaps doubling or tripling this cap would be a good start?

Then tag on a system to reward points for discording, rezzing, healing and tanking, tamers.

 

[Gelf]

Thunderz, do you have a job?

If you do, you have a boss. Your boss does a lot more work than you, and gets paid appropriately.

Do you think that just because you and your boss work the same 8 hours a day you should be paid the same regardless of who does what?

Thats got to be the worst analogy i've ever seen

 

[Aran]

Apparently you don't post on Slashdot.